Ubuntu 2.0 - Twobuntu Outsider's Perspective on Ubuntu & Debian Keith Curtis [email_address] Talk loosely based on May, 2006 post: http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=27 Version History June 17: Debconf 7 June 20: Minor tweaks

Outsider's Perspective on

Ubuntu & Debian

Keith Curtis

[email_address]

Talk loosely based on May, 2006 post:

http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=27

Version History

June 17: Debconf 7

June 20: Minor tweaks

Background 11 years at M$, 2.5 years with free software I worked on the text engine for Bob ;-) Free software kicks ass Don't need to join a company anymore to learn the craft of programming. The musings of someone trapped in dark Seattle and Sweden for the last 13 years

11 years at M$, 2.5 years with free software

I worked on the text engine for Bob ;-)

Free software kicks ass

Don't need to join a company anymore to learn the craft of programming.

The musings of someone trapped in dark Seattle and Sweden for the last 13 years

Can Ubuntu and Debian work better together? Yes, but why and how? Ubuntu threatens Debian Few news articles about Etch's release Ubuntu needs Debian's help Ubuntu is buggy Mark was not trying to hurt Debian But, what about the law of unintended consequences?

Yes, but why and how?

Ubuntu threatens Debian

Few news articles about Etch's release

Ubuntu needs Debian's help

Ubuntu is buggy

Mark was not trying to hurt Debian

But, what about the law of unintended consequences?

Two issues Efficiency Can you build a Universal OS?

Efficiency

Can you build a Universal OS?

Division of Labor One of my lessons at Microsoft: my smart, senior bosses couldn't make the best fixes in my code. It takes time to get up to speed on someone else's code. That is why Ubuntu X.org 7.0 patches were just a “starting point” for Debian In other words, little more help than if they didn't exist This reason is the biggest cause for inefficiency between Ubuntu and Debian

One of my lessons at Microsoft: my smart, senior bosses couldn't make the best fixes in my code.

It takes time to get up to speed on someone else's code.

That is why Ubuntu X.org 7.0 patches were just a “starting point” for Debian

In other words, little more help than if they didn't exist

This reason is the biggest cause for inefficiency between Ubuntu and Debian

Division of Labor Today: Ubuntu does a feature Throws it over the wall to Debian, where it gets re-understood and likely improved Now, you have 2 people who have bothered to learn the exact same thing With one codebase, this wouldn't happen Ubuntu often throws away their patch, and uses upstream version

Today:

Ubuntu does a feature

Throws it over the wall to Debian, where it gets re-understood and likely improved

Now, you have 2 people who have bothered to learn the exact same thing

With one codebase, this wouldn't happen

Ubuntu often throws away their patch, and uses upstream version

Division of Labor Even worse: when Ubuntu does a feature, this is expertise that Debian is not getting Center of gravity shifts away from Debian Ubuntu's current list of features means they are not waiting for any features from Debian. Did Ubuntu come to this conference with a list of workitems for you? Ubuntu is on course to completely grab center of gravity

Even worse: when Ubuntu does a feature, this is expertise that Debian is not getting

Center of gravity shifts away from Debian

Ubuntu's current list of features means they are not waiting for any features from Debian.

Did Ubuntu come to this conference with a list of workitems for you?

Ubuntu is on course to completely grab center of gravity

Division of Labor Bug process according to DCT Ubuntu finds a bug Maybe files a bug in Debian Maybe Debian reproduces the bug Now, who is responsible for it? Will any patches work unchanged between the two codebases?

Bug process according to DCT

Ubuntu finds a bug

Maybe files a bug in Debian

Maybe Debian reproduces the bug

Now, who is responsible for it?

Will any patches work unchanged between the two codebases?

Division of Labor Other impacts Debian is playing catchup, not seeing Ubuntu's changes Departure of Ubuntu developers robs them of Debian's expertise, which is one reason why Ubuntu is buggy Many choices arbitrary -> divergence What if Debian does not adopt Upstart?

Other impacts

Debian is playing catchup, not seeing Ubuntu's changes

Departure of Ubuntu developers robs them of Debian's expertise, which is one reason why Ubuntu is buggy

Many choices arbitrary -> divergence

What if Debian does not adopt Upstart?

Efficiency - bugs Background: only bugs are holding up World Domination Linux needs no “bolt of lightning” feature Donald Rumsfeld: “It's a long, hard slog.” Fixing bugs faster is the only way to get there faster

Background: only bugs are holding up World Domination

Linux needs no “bolt of lightning” feature

Donald Rumsfeld: “It's a long, hard slog.”

Fixing bugs faster is the only way to get there faster

Efficiency - bugs Ubuntu is swamped in bugs In May, 2006, Ubuntu had 10,000 active In May, 2007, Ubuntu had 30,000 active bugs. Ubuntu needs 1,000 contributors Where could it get that?! (First distro with 10,000 contributors wins)

Ubuntu is swamped in bugs

In May, 2006, Ubuntu had 10,000 active

In May, 2007, Ubuntu had 30,000 active bugs.

Ubuntu needs 1,000 contributors

Where could it get that?!

(First distro with 10,000 contributors wins)

Efficiency - bugs Current situation has challenges Ubuntu LTS snapshots Debian-unstable Many of Ubuntu's bugs exist in Debian but who is keeping track? If you don't know about your bugs, what was the point of shipping at 0?

Current situation has challenges

Ubuntu LTS snapshots Debian-unstable

Many of Ubuntu's bugs exist in Debian but who is keeping track?

If you don't know about your bugs, what was the point of shipping at 0?

Efficiency Brand HP supports Debian on their hardware. What does this mean for Ubuntu? Do .DEB files work from one OS to the next? Other Infrastructure BTS, security bug-fixers, source control, forums, build servers, etc. Imagine investing that time/money to improve Debian's rather than reinventing wheel

Brand

HP supports Debian on their hardware. What does this mean for Ubuntu?

Do .DEB files work from one OS to the next?

Other Infrastructure

BTS, security bug-fixers, source control, forums, build servers, etc.

Imagine investing that time/money to improve Debian's rather than reinventing wheel

Efficiency Community Ubuntu is exciting! This brings in more people and causes existing people to work harder If Debian is perceived as irrelevant, existing DDs will quit working, leave

Community

Ubuntu is exciting! This brings in more people and causes existing people to work harder

If Debian is perceived as irrelevant, existing DDs will quit working, leave

Two issues Efficiency Can you build a Universal OS?

Efficiency

Can you build a Universal OS?

Mark Shuttleworth: “It’s hard to know what Debian’s goals are” http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/56 Good question to ask: goals create a vision which bring people on board Thinks Ubuntu is: “a few specific use cases.” Laptop, desktops, server and now embedded is “a few specific use cases?”

“It’s hard to know what Debian’s goals are” http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/56

Good question to ask: goals create a vision which bring people on board

Thinks Ubuntu is: “a few specific use cases.”

Laptop, desktops, server and now embedded is “a few specific use cases?”

Universal OS Debian motto is Universal OS Hardware platforms and software packages Debian runs on Nokia 770 -> servers Most Debian derivatives are subsets, or region-specific which don't disturb center of gravity One Wikipedia, one Linux kernel Software is infinitely malleable Ubuntu's motto obviates Debian's

Debian motto is Universal OS

Hardware platforms and software packages

Debian runs on Nokia 770 -> servers

Most Debian derivatives are subsets, or region-specific which don't disturb center of gravity

One Wikipedia, one Linux kernel

Software is infinitely malleable

Ubuntu's motto obviates Debian's

Debian wants Ubuntu's features! What feature, other than orange, has Ubuntu added that Debian doesn't want? Does Debian want: Ease of use 3-D desktop, 2.6 kernel, faster startup Better power management Most people who want good laptop support are now using Ubuntu, so Debian's code isn't getting tested

What feature, other than orange, has Ubuntu added that Debian doesn't want?

Does Debian want:

Ease of use

3-D desktop, 2.6 kernel, faster startup

Better power management

Most people who want good laptop support are now using Ubuntu, so Debian's code isn't getting tested

Anything Ubuntu doesn't want? Ubuntu wants to support less platforms Kernel hides 99% of this work Supporting one 64-bit gets you all Upstream, not Ubuntu's responsibility Platform maintainers keep things in shape i.e. Ubuntu gets this for free already! ...In other words, this cost has not been quantified, and is likely overstated Any others?

Ubuntu wants to support less platforms

Kernel hides 99% of this work

Supporting one 64-bit gets you all

Upstream, not Ubuntu's responsibility

Platform maintainers keep things in shape

i.e. Ubuntu gets this for free already!

...In other words, this cost has not been quantified, and is likely overstated

Any others?

Ubuntu is exploiting a “loophole” in the GPL Ubuntu fork goes against the spirit of GPL and cooperation Generally, changes should be made to upstream And, take ownership so someone else doesn't have to learn the same code When someone improves the Linux kernel, they don't use that to make a new, competing Linux kernel

Ubuntu fork goes against the spirit of GPL and cooperation

Generally, changes should be made to upstream

And, take ownership so someone else doesn't have to learn the same code

When someone improves the Linux kernel, they don't use that to make a new, competing Linux kernel

Many ways to work better together This is where you guys come in Dramatic changes... Or, Have Ubuntu devs do core work in Debian, “fluff” work in Ubuntu Is there any “fluff?” Different ship cycles harder but doable Or, Debian could switch to time-based releases (Martin Michlmayr's thesis)

This is where you guys come in

Dramatic changes...

Or, Have Ubuntu devs do core work in Debian, “fluff” work in Ubuntu

Is there any “fluff?”

Different ship cycles harder but doable

Or, Debian could switch to time-based releases (Martin Michlmayr's thesis)

Thought Experiment Suppose you decided that Ubuntu and Debian should merge: All DDs resign to be Ubuntu developers Would Mark trade never getting another patch if he got 1,000 new developers? Ubuntu community could re-join Debian Remove animosity, bring excitement and more users to Debian I believe either would be better than current situation

Suppose you decided that Ubuntu and Debian should merge:

All DDs resign to be Ubuntu developers

Would Mark trade never getting another patch if he got 1,000 new developers?

Ubuntu community could re-join Debian

Remove animosity, bring excitement and more users to Debian

I believe either would be better than current situation

That's my talk! A few misc slides...

A few misc slides...

Advice Attention to detail OOB, bugs Keep doubling the number of DDs Wikipedia's motto: “Don't scare the newcomers” The competition has 5,000 full-time programmers Spend your 2 or 8 hours per week productively Spend more time coding than sending e-mails New software is better than old software

Attention to detail

OOB, bugs

Keep doubling the number of DDs

Wikipedia's motto: “Don't scare the newcomers”

The competition has 5,000 full-time programmers

Spend your 2 or 8 hours per week productively

Spend more time coding than sending e-mails

New software is better than old software

Challenges (incomplete) Are DDs still passionate? What does a DEB mean in a managed world? Can I install FireFox off the web? Do I have to upgrade my kernel when I install new hardware? Can I never have to “upgrade” my OS?

Are DDs still passionate?

What does a DEB mean in a managed world?

Can I install FireFox off the web?

Do I have to upgrade my kernel when I install new hardware?

Can I never have to “upgrade” my OS?

State of Ubuntu in 1 slide – Buggy! My computer resumes 9 of 10 times I'm using ATI's drivers, yet cannot enable Compiz/Beryl. 2-D graphics perf sometimes slow. Took an hour to enable playing DVDs Kinda works in Kaffeine Wine did not enable clicking on EXEs IE 6 installs but does not run I cannot double-click on a DEB which has uninstalled dependencies Few apps as polished or reliable as Firefox

My computer resumes 9 of 10 times

I'm using ATI's drivers, yet cannot enable Compiz/Beryl. 2-D graphics perf sometimes slow.

Took an hour to enable playing DVDs

Kinda works in Kaffeine

Wine did not enable clicking on EXEs

IE 6 installs but does not run

I cannot double-click on a DEB which has uninstalled dependencies

Few apps as polished or reliable as Firefox

Many ways to work better together Goals One tree One bug database One conference schedule One fat and happy community Linux will achieve... World Domination, and faster if we want Thanks for listening!

Goals

One tree

One bug database

One conference schedule

One fat and happy community

Linux will achieve... World Domination, and faster if we want

Thanks for listening!