SlideShare a Scribd company logo
US Catholic bishops and abortion - part 2
continued from:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/101988973/US-Catholic-Bishops-and-Abortion

quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
Oh, I surely do recall Charles Curran's visit to LSU and the controversy
around all that. It was the beginning of the end of our campus ministry
team.
I remember when his critique of the bishops approach you linked to
came out a couple of years ago. That, too, stirred things up quite a bit. I
think we might have discussed it here. All in all, I find it a good
summary, but I find a few things to quibble about. E.g.,
quote:
Recently the bishops have made the argument that since abortion
is an intrinsic moral evil, it thus differs from all other legal issues
such as immigration, death penalty, human rights, or the first use
of nuclear weapons. This is a faulty argument. The primary
problem is that intrinsic evil is a moral term and not a legal term.
The fact that something is an intrinsic moral evil has nothing to do
with law or legality. Aquinas himself following Augustine was
willing to accept no law against prostitution, which according to
Catholic teaching is a morally intrinsic evil. Many states in our
country do not have criminal laws against adultery, but Catholic
teaching insists that adultery is an intrinsic moral evil. No
Catholic bishops have campaigned to have criminal laws against
adultery. Thus the very fact that something is an intrinsic moral
evil does not mean there should always be a law against it.
That point seems disingenuous, insofar as the intrinsic evil is more akin
to murder than anything else, and no country approves of the intentional
destruction of innocent human life, which the bishops maintain a fetus
is. And they are correct on this point; a fetus is indisputably a human life,
and an individual human genome, at that, after the 3rd week of life, for
sure. Questions about ensoulment, personhood, etc. are another matter,
and I think you and Curran are correct in pointing out that excessive
reliance on essentialistic approaches to establishing such status are as
weak (and as strong) as the philosophical approach. Without rehashing
old discussions, here, I don't think they need to go down that road;
biological individuality is a strong enough point to build an argument
on, imo, and they're on completely safe ground there. All that's left to
discuss is the right of that biological individual genome to its proper
future versus a woman's right to carry such life (or not) to term. Pro-
choicers give more weight to the mother's right to decide; the bishops
claim that the fetus' right to life trumps, and that to terminate such a life
is an intrinsically evil act more akin to murder, which every society
loathes and punishes.
If one follows the links at the bottom of those NCR pages, there was some give
and take between Curran and other responders that clarifies this matter.
Curran was stipulating to the magisterium's position regarding the moral
reality of abortion, merely pointing out that being an intrinsic evil, alone,
would not be a sufficient reason to criminalize an act (over against some
poorly nuanced statements by bishops). That point, when coupled with the
speculative doubt regarding personhood, could contribute to a reasonable
argument against criminalization and precisely because nothing tantamount to
murder is in play, consistent with the observation that most societies, in fact, do
not criminalize abortion. I suspect Curran described such doubt as speculative
in order to distinguish it from empirical doubt, the former being a doubt of
law , where probabilistic systems may apply, the latter, a doubt of fact , where
probabilism would not apply if human life and justice are at stake, although
there is some evidence in church tradition that this is not always the case.
quote:
Originally posted by Phil:Shasha's post #5 from the top expresses the
precise sentiments I think the bishops hope that Catholics will hold to,
and I strongly empathize with this. I can even go along with Rev. Jay
Scott's statement quoted above (minus the threat of mortal sin and
damnation), that Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible
pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic
evil. That's really true! Of course, one must define what is meant by
"plausible pro-life alternative."
What gets lost in the conversation is prudential judgment, which strategies will
probably work the best to achieve the consensus goal of reducing abortions,
the pro-life goal of eliminating them. A plausible pro-life alternative must be
based on results not rhetoric. Even the who, what, when, where and how of
criminalization is subject to prudential judgment. They seem to ignore such
common sense calculus as weighing, for example, the likelihood of abortion
law being changed by one POTUS candidate against the likelihood of an
imprudent war being waged by another.
quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
Johnboy, you seem convinced that the gap between the bishops'
teaching and Catholic voting behavior has less to do with what you
called "an unreceptive audience" than with poorly reasoned or
presented teaching. Do you really believe most Catholics are that tuned
in to what you list as inconsistent arguments, erroneous presuppositions,
flawed metaphysics, poor epistemology? I only wish they were that tuned
in and reflective about this matter. You also find hope for a more
effective pedagogy on this and related issues in our social teachings.
Maybe you could say more about that sometime.
We can distinguish between being epistemologically competent and being
schooled in epistemology. The former combines common sense and love in a
wisdom experienced in one's bones. People are indeed tuned in to what I list
because such a tuning is moreso intuitive, experiential, existential, aesthetic,
moral and practical, what I have often distinguished as arising from our
participatory imaginations rather than merely our conceptual map-making.
People "know" through the way they live and move and have their being that
the procreative dimension to marriage is more than an isolated physical act,
that the unitive dimension of conjugal love is important. They don't have to
jump through metaphysical hoops to figure out that masturbation and murder
are not equally grave. They "know" that distributing condoms to prevent AIDS
in Africa is a no-brainer that doesn't require a panel of bio-ethicists to
deliberate. They "know" that the procreative values to be realized in a
marriage are not threatened by the use of contraception because openness to
generativity is a disposition oriented toward the lifetime of the relationship
more than any individual act. They "know" that the sacerdotal roles of a priest
are not inextricably tied to her gender. They "know" that, given an unfortunate
choice, it is infinitely more morally compelling to rescue a single baby from a
fire at a preschool than hundreds of frozen embryos in the cryobank next door.
Of course, every value-realization involves an axiological holon of epistemic
warrant, normative justification, evaluative eco-rationality and interpretive
impetus, in other words, including both our participatory imagination and
conceptual-mapmaking, our reason and intuition, our rational, pre-rational,
nonrational and supra-rational dispositions. But human deliberations are far
more informal than formal. A casuistry immersed in metaphysical abstractions
and deductive rationalism apart from concrete lived experience loses its
relevance to the faithful, who sniff out such a flawed metaphysics and poor
epistemology as true philosophers, who are people who have simply lived life
well. The erroneous presuppositions needn't be articulated formally, as they
can be dismissed reductio ad absurdum for what they are, patently absurd. All
it takes to spot an inconsistent argument is, well, inconsistency, a reality about
which the magisterium is hypersensitive, so often disingenuously maintaining
that thus and such has been the so-called constant tradition. This is one reason
given for not changing the teaching on contraception: What about all the
faithful we've already sent to hell? or The faithful would be scandalized if we
changed our position!
In the old days, both our social justice and sexual morality teachings relied on
approaches based in classicism, natural law and legalism. Nowadays, our
social justice theory employs three new methodologies, respectively, historical
consciousness, personalism and relationality-responsibility. Modern Catholic
social justice teachings enjoy widespread credibility due to these updated
methodologies, which are eminently transparent to human reason. Catholic
Ethics in Tension: Sexuality and Social Justice by Rev. Charles Curran
All that said, the magisterium has been decidedly on the side of all that is true,
beautiful, good and unitive, even if often fallibly making its way in walking
alongside and ministering to the pilgrim people of God. It, among other
ecclesial magisteria, is an indispensable witness to revelation and deserving
of deference and engagement in one's conscience formation. Regarding the
moral reality of abortion, because I find the arguments compelling that both
probabilism and prudential judgment are in play, it seems to me that people of
both large intelligence and profound goodwill can disagree regarding - not
only the legal and political dimensions, but - its morality, making vilification,
demonization and ad hominem characterizations (eg you therefore,
definitionally and necessarily, have a poorly-formed conscience) of others
totally off limits. It also means that I believe that - not only can one vote for a
pro-choice candidate, but - one can be Catholic and pro-choice, if sufficiently
nuanced. Even those who are quite confident that ensoulment is variously
delayed should take into account both their own and others' moral
sensibilities, feelings and aesthetics playing an important role in moral
evaluations, and couple those with an appreciation for other probable
(authoritative) opinions as exist in probabilistic systems, along with some
speculative self-critical doubt, and concede that no human life or being,
person or not metaphysically, lacks moral significance, even if that
significance is less than absolute, and that, therefore, no decision to abort
should be made casually or cavalierly, that no gift should be returned
dismissively or without consideration.

More Related Content

What's hot

Pope Hard News Article
Pope Hard News ArticlePope Hard News Article
Pope Hard News Article
Phillip Clark
 
Failing Fathers in Frankenstein
Failing Fathers in FrankensteinFailing Fathers in Frankenstein
Failing Fathers in Frankenstein
Courtney Blakey
 
Religião e Sociedade - Nelio Schneirder
Religião e Sociedade - Nelio SchneirderReligião e Sociedade - Nelio Schneirder
Religião e Sociedade - Nelio Schneirder
Carlos Alberto Monteiro
 
Apologetics, Kreeft chapter 10: The Bible, myth or history?
Apologetics, Kreeft chapter 10: The Bible, myth or history?Apologetics, Kreeft chapter 10: The Bible, myth or history?
Apologetics, Kreeft chapter 10: The Bible, myth or history?
Richard Chamberlain
 
Angels & Demons Separating Truth From Lies
Angels & Demons Separating Truth From LiesAngels & Demons Separating Truth From Lies
Angels & Demons Separating Truth From Lies
cleobrag
 
Postmodernism vs Christianity
Postmodernism vs ChristianityPostmodernism vs Christianity
Postmodernism vs Christianity
Austin Cords
 
Bourgeault contd 07jan2012
Bourgeault contd 07jan2012Bourgeault contd 07jan2012
Bourgeault contd 07jan2012
johnboy_philothea_net
 
JUDAISM IS AN UTTER MYTHOLOGICAL FABRICATION IN EVERY SENSE PREFIGURING LOONY...
JUDAISM IS AN UTTER MYTHOLOGICAL FABRICATION IN EVERY SENSE PREFIGURING LOONY...JUDAISM IS AN UTTER MYTHOLOGICAL FABRICATION IN EVERY SENSE PREFIGURING LOONY...
JUDAISM IS AN UTTER MYTHOLOGICAL FABRICATION IN EVERY SENSE PREFIGURING LOONY...
William John Meegan
 

What's hot (8)

Pope Hard News Article
Pope Hard News ArticlePope Hard News Article
Pope Hard News Article
 
Failing Fathers in Frankenstein
Failing Fathers in FrankensteinFailing Fathers in Frankenstein
Failing Fathers in Frankenstein
 
Religião e Sociedade - Nelio Schneirder
Religião e Sociedade - Nelio SchneirderReligião e Sociedade - Nelio Schneirder
Religião e Sociedade - Nelio Schneirder
 
Apologetics, Kreeft chapter 10: The Bible, myth or history?
Apologetics, Kreeft chapter 10: The Bible, myth or history?Apologetics, Kreeft chapter 10: The Bible, myth or history?
Apologetics, Kreeft chapter 10: The Bible, myth or history?
 
Angels & Demons Separating Truth From Lies
Angels & Demons Separating Truth From LiesAngels & Demons Separating Truth From Lies
Angels & Demons Separating Truth From Lies
 
Postmodernism vs Christianity
Postmodernism vs ChristianityPostmodernism vs Christianity
Postmodernism vs Christianity
 
Bourgeault contd 07jan2012
Bourgeault contd 07jan2012Bourgeault contd 07jan2012
Bourgeault contd 07jan2012
 
JUDAISM IS AN UTTER MYTHOLOGICAL FABRICATION IN EVERY SENSE PREFIGURING LOONY...
JUDAISM IS AN UTTER MYTHOLOGICAL FABRICATION IN EVERY SENSE PREFIGURING LOONY...JUDAISM IS AN UTTER MYTHOLOGICAL FABRICATION IN EVERY SENSE PREFIGURING LOONY...
JUDAISM IS AN UTTER MYTHOLOGICAL FABRICATION IN EVERY SENSE PREFIGURING LOONY...
 

Similar to Us catholic bishops and abortion part 2

Us catholic bishops and abortion
Us catholic bishops and abortion Us catholic bishops and abortion
Us catholic bishops and abortion
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Johnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1bJohnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1b
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Johnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1bJohnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1b
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Johnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1bJohnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1b
johnboy_philothea_net
 
The Biological Basis of MoralityDo we invent our moral absolutes.docx
The Biological Basis of MoralityDo we invent our moral absolutes.docxThe Biological Basis of MoralityDo we invent our moral absolutes.docx
The Biological Basis of MoralityDo we invent our moral absolutes.docx
mattinsonjanel
 
Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia A Natural Law Ethics Approach.pdf
Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia  A Natural Law Ethics Approach.pdfAssisted Suicide and Euthanasia  A Natural Law Ethics Approach.pdf
Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia A Natural Law Ethics Approach.pdf
Sabrina Baloi
 
Homosexuality Essays
Homosexuality EssaysHomosexuality Essays
Homosexuality Essays
Cheapest Paper Writing Service
 
Essentials of Abortionism
Essentials of AbortionismEssentials of Abortionism
Essentials of Abortionism
Al Lemmo
 
ABORTION AND ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY Lisa Sowie Cahill Bosto.docx
ABORTION AND ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY Lisa Sowie Cahill Bosto.docxABORTION AND ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY Lisa Sowie Cahill Bosto.docx
ABORTION AND ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY Lisa Sowie Cahill Bosto.docx
annetnash8266
 
Abortion Arguments Essay. WON Institute of Graduate Studies
Abortion Arguments Essay. WON Institute of Graduate StudiesAbortion Arguments Essay. WON Institute of Graduate Studies
Abortion Arguments Essay. WON Institute of Graduate Studies
Lisa Davis
 
Coercion freedom
Coercion freedomCoercion freedom
Coercion freedom
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Dear johndear
Dear johndearDear johndear
Dear johndear
johnboy_philothea_net
 

Similar to Us catholic bishops and abortion part 2 (12)

Us catholic bishops and abortion
Us catholic bishops and abortion Us catholic bishops and abortion
Us catholic bishops and abortion
 
Johnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1bJohnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1b
 
Johnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1bJohnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1b
 
Johnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1bJohnboy musings part1b
Johnboy musings part1b
 
The Biological Basis of MoralityDo we invent our moral absolutes.docx
The Biological Basis of MoralityDo we invent our moral absolutes.docxThe Biological Basis of MoralityDo we invent our moral absolutes.docx
The Biological Basis of MoralityDo we invent our moral absolutes.docx
 
Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia A Natural Law Ethics Approach.pdf
Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia  A Natural Law Ethics Approach.pdfAssisted Suicide and Euthanasia  A Natural Law Ethics Approach.pdf
Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia A Natural Law Ethics Approach.pdf
 
Homosexuality Essays
Homosexuality EssaysHomosexuality Essays
Homosexuality Essays
 
Essentials of Abortionism
Essentials of AbortionismEssentials of Abortionism
Essentials of Abortionism
 
ABORTION AND ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY Lisa Sowie Cahill Bosto.docx
ABORTION AND ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY Lisa Sowie Cahill Bosto.docxABORTION AND ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY Lisa Sowie Cahill Bosto.docx
ABORTION AND ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY Lisa Sowie Cahill Bosto.docx
 
Abortion Arguments Essay. WON Institute of Graduate Studies
Abortion Arguments Essay. WON Institute of Graduate StudiesAbortion Arguments Essay. WON Institute of Graduate Studies
Abortion Arguments Essay. WON Institute of Graduate Studies
 
Coercion freedom
Coercion freedomCoercion freedom
Coercion freedom
 
Dear johndear
Dear johndearDear johndear
Dear johndear
 

More from johnboy_philothea_net

Moral justification of our tragic reality via omnipathy
Moral justification of our tragic reality via omnipathyMoral justification of our tragic reality via omnipathy
Moral justification of our tragic reality via omnipathy
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Emerging christianity interfaith account of orthodoxic spi
Emerging christianity   interfaith account of orthodoxic spiEmerging christianity   interfaith account of orthodoxic spi
Emerging christianity interfaith account of orthodoxic spi
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Eucharistic model
Eucharistic modelEucharistic model
Eucharistic model
johnboy_philothea_net
 
The missing divine attribute omnipathy
The missing divine attribute   omnipathyThe missing divine attribute   omnipathy
The missing divine attribute omnipathy
johnboy_philothea_net
 
In all religions we are invited to dig deeper
In all religions we are invited to dig deeperIn all religions we are invited to dig deeper
In all religions we are invited to dig deeper
johnboy_philothea_net
 
A soteriological orthodoxy and sophiological polydoxy
A soteriological orthodoxy and sophiological polydoxyA soteriological orthodoxy and sophiological polydoxy
A soteriological orthodoxy and sophiological polydoxy
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Deconstructing deconstructionism
Deconstructing deconstructionismDeconstructing deconstructionism
Deconstructing deconstructionism
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Faith between a naive realism and radical deconstructionism
Faith between a naive realism and radical deconstructionismFaith between a naive realism and radical deconstructionism
Faith between a naive realism and radical deconstructionism
johnboy_philothea_net
 
In defense of metaphysics and its meaningfulness
In defense of metaphysics and its meaningfulnessIn defense of metaphysics and its meaningfulness
In defense of metaphysics and its meaningfulness
johnboy_philothea_net
 
The role of change in metaphysics not so fast
The role of change in metaphysics   not so fastThe role of change in metaphysics   not so fast
The role of change in metaphysics not so fastjohnboy_philothea_net
 
The role of change in metaphysics not so fast
The role of change in metaphysics   not so fastThe role of change in metaphysics   not so fast
The role of change in metaphysics not so fast
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy god as lover
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy   god as loverOrthodoxy weds polydoxy   god as lover
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy god as lover
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy god as lover
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy   god as loverOrthodoxy weds polydoxy   god as lover
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy god as loverjohnboy_philothea_net
 
To john caputo yes, but
To john caputo   yes, butTo john caputo   yes, but
To john caputo yes, but
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Ontologizing schmontologizing, philosophical or theological
Ontologizing schmontologizing, philosophical or theologicalOntologizing schmontologizing, philosophical or theological
Ontologizing schmontologizing, philosophical or theological
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Deconstruct this!
Deconstruct this!Deconstruct this!
Deconstruct this!
johnboy_philothea_net
 
The (semiotic) failure of logocentrism
The (semiotic) failure of logocentrismThe (semiotic) failure of logocentrism
The (semiotic) failure of logocentrism
johnboy_philothea_net
 
A look at panentheism from a semiotic vantage point
A look at panentheism from a semiotic vantage pointA look at panentheism from a semiotic vantage point
A look at panentheism from a semiotic vantage point
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Dorothy day and gospel norms
Dorothy day and gospel normsDorothy day and gospel norms
Dorothy day and gospel norms
johnboy_philothea_net
 
Interfaith dialogue as sophiologic gift exchange
Interfaith dialogue as sophiologic gift exchangeInterfaith dialogue as sophiologic gift exchange
Interfaith dialogue as sophiologic gift exchange
johnboy_philothea_net
 

More from johnboy_philothea_net (20)

Moral justification of our tragic reality via omnipathy
Moral justification of our tragic reality via omnipathyMoral justification of our tragic reality via omnipathy
Moral justification of our tragic reality via omnipathy
 
Emerging christianity interfaith account of orthodoxic spi
Emerging christianity   interfaith account of orthodoxic spiEmerging christianity   interfaith account of orthodoxic spi
Emerging christianity interfaith account of orthodoxic spi
 
Eucharistic model
Eucharistic modelEucharistic model
Eucharistic model
 
The missing divine attribute omnipathy
The missing divine attribute   omnipathyThe missing divine attribute   omnipathy
The missing divine attribute omnipathy
 
In all religions we are invited to dig deeper
In all religions we are invited to dig deeperIn all religions we are invited to dig deeper
In all religions we are invited to dig deeper
 
A soteriological orthodoxy and sophiological polydoxy
A soteriological orthodoxy and sophiological polydoxyA soteriological orthodoxy and sophiological polydoxy
A soteriological orthodoxy and sophiological polydoxy
 
Deconstructing deconstructionism
Deconstructing deconstructionismDeconstructing deconstructionism
Deconstructing deconstructionism
 
Faith between a naive realism and radical deconstructionism
Faith between a naive realism and radical deconstructionismFaith between a naive realism and radical deconstructionism
Faith between a naive realism and radical deconstructionism
 
In defense of metaphysics and its meaningfulness
In defense of metaphysics and its meaningfulnessIn defense of metaphysics and its meaningfulness
In defense of metaphysics and its meaningfulness
 
The role of change in metaphysics not so fast
The role of change in metaphysics   not so fastThe role of change in metaphysics   not so fast
The role of change in metaphysics not so fast
 
The role of change in metaphysics not so fast
The role of change in metaphysics   not so fastThe role of change in metaphysics   not so fast
The role of change in metaphysics not so fast
 
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy god as lover
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy   god as loverOrthodoxy weds polydoxy   god as lover
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy god as lover
 
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy god as lover
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy   god as loverOrthodoxy weds polydoxy   god as lover
Orthodoxy weds polydoxy god as lover
 
To john caputo yes, but
To john caputo   yes, butTo john caputo   yes, but
To john caputo yes, but
 
Ontologizing schmontologizing, philosophical or theological
Ontologizing schmontologizing, philosophical or theologicalOntologizing schmontologizing, philosophical or theological
Ontologizing schmontologizing, philosophical or theological
 
Deconstruct this!
Deconstruct this!Deconstruct this!
Deconstruct this!
 
The (semiotic) failure of logocentrism
The (semiotic) failure of logocentrismThe (semiotic) failure of logocentrism
The (semiotic) failure of logocentrism
 
A look at panentheism from a semiotic vantage point
A look at panentheism from a semiotic vantage pointA look at panentheism from a semiotic vantage point
A look at panentheism from a semiotic vantage point
 
Dorothy day and gospel norms
Dorothy day and gospel normsDorothy day and gospel norms
Dorothy day and gospel norms
 
Interfaith dialogue as sophiologic gift exchange
Interfaith dialogue as sophiologic gift exchangeInterfaith dialogue as sophiologic gift exchange
Interfaith dialogue as sophiologic gift exchange
 

Recently uploaded

A375 Example Taste the taste of the Lord, the taste of the Lord The taste of...
A375 Example Taste the taste of the Lord,  the taste of the Lord The taste of...A375 Example Taste the taste of the Lord,  the taste of the Lord The taste of...
A375 Example Taste the taste of the Lord, the taste of the Lord The taste of...
franktsao4
 
The Hope of Salvation - Jude 1:24-25 - Message
The Hope of Salvation - Jude 1:24-25 - MessageThe Hope of Salvation - Jude 1:24-25 - Message
The Hope of Salvation - Jude 1:24-25 - Message
Cole Hartman
 
Sanatan Vastu | Experience Great Living | Vastu Expert
Sanatan Vastu | Experience Great Living | Vastu ExpertSanatan Vastu | Experience Great Living | Vastu Expert
Sanatan Vastu | Experience Great Living | Vastu Expert
Sanatan Vastu
 
A Free eBook ~ Valuable LIFE Lessons to Learn ( 5 Sets of Presentations)...
A Free eBook ~ Valuable LIFE Lessons    to Learn   ( 5 Sets of Presentations)...A Free eBook ~ Valuable LIFE Lessons    to Learn   ( 5 Sets of Presentations)...
A Free eBook ~ Valuable LIFE Lessons to Learn ( 5 Sets of Presentations)...
OH TEIK BIN
 
The_Chronological_Life_of_Christ_Part_104_Repentance_and_Restoration
The_Chronological_Life_of_Christ_Part_104_Repentance_and_RestorationThe_Chronological_Life_of_Christ_Part_104_Repentance_and_Restoration
The_Chronological_Life_of_Christ_Part_104_Repentance_and_Restoration
Network Bible Fellowship
 
English - The Book of Ruth - King James Bible.pdf
English - The Book of Ruth - King James Bible.pdfEnglish - The Book of Ruth - King James Bible.pdf
English - The Book of Ruth - King James Bible.pdf
Filipino Tracts and Literature Society Inc.
 
Protector & Destroyer: Agni Dev (The Hindu God of Fire)
Protector & Destroyer: Agni Dev (The Hindu God of Fire)Protector & Destroyer: Agni Dev (The Hindu God of Fire)
Protector & Destroyer: Agni Dev (The Hindu God of Fire)
Exotic India
 
Heartfulness Magazine - June 2024 (Volume 9, Issue 6)
Heartfulness Magazine - June 2024 (Volume 9, Issue 6)Heartfulness Magazine - June 2024 (Volume 9, Issue 6)
Heartfulness Magazine - June 2024 (Volume 9, Issue 6)
heartfulness
 
Kala jadu (black magic) expert,Black magic specialist in Dubai vashikaran spe...
Kala jadu (black magic) expert,Black magic specialist in Dubai vashikaran spe...Kala jadu (black magic) expert,Black magic specialist in Dubai vashikaran spe...
Kala jadu (black magic) expert,Black magic specialist in Dubai vashikaran spe...
makhmalhalaaay
 
Deerfoot Church of Christ Bulletin 6 16 24
Deerfoot Church of Christ Bulletin 6 16 24Deerfoot Church of Christ Bulletin 6 16 24
Deerfoot Church of Christ Bulletin 6 16 24
deerfootcoc
 
Trusting God's Providence | Verse: Romans 8: 28-31
Trusting God's Providence | Verse: Romans 8: 28-31Trusting God's Providence | Verse: Romans 8: 28-31
Trusting God's Providence | Verse: Romans 8: 28-31
JL de Belen
 
A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism bk 1.pdf
A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism bk 1.pdfA Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism bk 1.pdf
A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism bk 1.pdf
xakok81712
 
The Enchantment and Shadows_ Unveiling the Mysteries of Magic and Black Magic...
The Enchantment and Shadows_ Unveiling the Mysteries of Magic and Black Magic...The Enchantment and Shadows_ Unveiling the Mysteries of Magic and Black Magic...
The Enchantment and Shadows_ Unveiling the Mysteries of Magic and Black Magic...
Phoenix O
 
How to Stop a Divorce and Save Your Marriage: Divorce Spells That Really Work...
How to Stop a Divorce and Save Your Marriage: Divorce Spells That Really Work...How to Stop a Divorce and Save Your Marriage: Divorce Spells That Really Work...
How to Stop a Divorce and Save Your Marriage: Divorce Spells That Really Work...
Traditional Healer, Love Spells Caster and Money Spells That Work Fast
 
312 A Wise Woman of Abel Beth Maakah Saves The Town
312 A Wise Woman of Abel Beth Maakah Saves The Town312 A Wise Woman of Abel Beth Maakah Saves The Town
312 A Wise Woman of Abel Beth Maakah Saves The Town
Rick Peterson
 
快速办理(PU毕业证书)普渡大学毕业证文凭证书一模一样
快速办理(PU毕业证书)普渡大学毕业证文凭证书一模一样快速办理(PU毕业证书)普渡大学毕业证文凭证书一模一样
快速办理(PU毕业证书)普渡大学毕业证文凭证书一模一样
cfk7atz3
 
Seminar on Music on the Liturgy Parish .pptx
Seminar on Music on the Liturgy Parish .pptxSeminar on Music on the Liturgy Parish .pptx
Seminar on Music on the Liturgy Parish .pptx
lexielhyn
 
English - The Book of 1st Samuel the Prophet.pdf
English - The Book of 1st Samuel the Prophet.pdfEnglish - The Book of 1st Samuel the Prophet.pdf
English - The Book of 1st Samuel the Prophet.pdf
Filipino Tracts and Literature Society Inc.
 
Marks of a Disciple - Persecution (John 15:18-27)
Marks of a Disciple - Persecution (John 15:18-27)Marks of a Disciple - Persecution (John 15:18-27)
Marks of a Disciple - Persecution (John 15:18-27)
Eusebio Yu
 

Recently uploaded (19)

A375 Example Taste the taste of the Lord, the taste of the Lord The taste of...
A375 Example Taste the taste of the Lord,  the taste of the Lord The taste of...A375 Example Taste the taste of the Lord,  the taste of the Lord The taste of...
A375 Example Taste the taste of the Lord, the taste of the Lord The taste of...
 
The Hope of Salvation - Jude 1:24-25 - Message
The Hope of Salvation - Jude 1:24-25 - MessageThe Hope of Salvation - Jude 1:24-25 - Message
The Hope of Salvation - Jude 1:24-25 - Message
 
Sanatan Vastu | Experience Great Living | Vastu Expert
Sanatan Vastu | Experience Great Living | Vastu ExpertSanatan Vastu | Experience Great Living | Vastu Expert
Sanatan Vastu | Experience Great Living | Vastu Expert
 
A Free eBook ~ Valuable LIFE Lessons to Learn ( 5 Sets of Presentations)...
A Free eBook ~ Valuable LIFE Lessons    to Learn   ( 5 Sets of Presentations)...A Free eBook ~ Valuable LIFE Lessons    to Learn   ( 5 Sets of Presentations)...
A Free eBook ~ Valuable LIFE Lessons to Learn ( 5 Sets of Presentations)...
 
The_Chronological_Life_of_Christ_Part_104_Repentance_and_Restoration
The_Chronological_Life_of_Christ_Part_104_Repentance_and_RestorationThe_Chronological_Life_of_Christ_Part_104_Repentance_and_Restoration
The_Chronological_Life_of_Christ_Part_104_Repentance_and_Restoration
 
English - The Book of Ruth - King James Bible.pdf
English - The Book of Ruth - King James Bible.pdfEnglish - The Book of Ruth - King James Bible.pdf
English - The Book of Ruth - King James Bible.pdf
 
Protector & Destroyer: Agni Dev (The Hindu God of Fire)
Protector & Destroyer: Agni Dev (The Hindu God of Fire)Protector & Destroyer: Agni Dev (The Hindu God of Fire)
Protector & Destroyer: Agni Dev (The Hindu God of Fire)
 
Heartfulness Magazine - June 2024 (Volume 9, Issue 6)
Heartfulness Magazine - June 2024 (Volume 9, Issue 6)Heartfulness Magazine - June 2024 (Volume 9, Issue 6)
Heartfulness Magazine - June 2024 (Volume 9, Issue 6)
 
Kala jadu (black magic) expert,Black magic specialist in Dubai vashikaran spe...
Kala jadu (black magic) expert,Black magic specialist in Dubai vashikaran spe...Kala jadu (black magic) expert,Black magic specialist in Dubai vashikaran spe...
Kala jadu (black magic) expert,Black magic specialist in Dubai vashikaran spe...
 
Deerfoot Church of Christ Bulletin 6 16 24
Deerfoot Church of Christ Bulletin 6 16 24Deerfoot Church of Christ Bulletin 6 16 24
Deerfoot Church of Christ Bulletin 6 16 24
 
Trusting God's Providence | Verse: Romans 8: 28-31
Trusting God's Providence | Verse: Romans 8: 28-31Trusting God's Providence | Verse: Romans 8: 28-31
Trusting God's Providence | Verse: Romans 8: 28-31
 
A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism bk 1.pdf
A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism bk 1.pdfA Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism bk 1.pdf
A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism bk 1.pdf
 
The Enchantment and Shadows_ Unveiling the Mysteries of Magic and Black Magic...
The Enchantment and Shadows_ Unveiling the Mysteries of Magic and Black Magic...The Enchantment and Shadows_ Unveiling the Mysteries of Magic and Black Magic...
The Enchantment and Shadows_ Unveiling the Mysteries of Magic and Black Magic...
 
How to Stop a Divorce and Save Your Marriage: Divorce Spells That Really Work...
How to Stop a Divorce and Save Your Marriage: Divorce Spells That Really Work...How to Stop a Divorce and Save Your Marriage: Divorce Spells That Really Work...
How to Stop a Divorce and Save Your Marriage: Divorce Spells That Really Work...
 
312 A Wise Woman of Abel Beth Maakah Saves The Town
312 A Wise Woman of Abel Beth Maakah Saves The Town312 A Wise Woman of Abel Beth Maakah Saves The Town
312 A Wise Woman of Abel Beth Maakah Saves The Town
 
快速办理(PU毕业证书)普渡大学毕业证文凭证书一模一样
快速办理(PU毕业证书)普渡大学毕业证文凭证书一模一样快速办理(PU毕业证书)普渡大学毕业证文凭证书一模一样
快速办理(PU毕业证书)普渡大学毕业证文凭证书一模一样
 
Seminar on Music on the Liturgy Parish .pptx
Seminar on Music on the Liturgy Parish .pptxSeminar on Music on the Liturgy Parish .pptx
Seminar on Music on the Liturgy Parish .pptx
 
English - The Book of 1st Samuel the Prophet.pdf
English - The Book of 1st Samuel the Prophet.pdfEnglish - The Book of 1st Samuel the Prophet.pdf
English - The Book of 1st Samuel the Prophet.pdf
 
Marks of a Disciple - Persecution (John 15:18-27)
Marks of a Disciple - Persecution (John 15:18-27)Marks of a Disciple - Persecution (John 15:18-27)
Marks of a Disciple - Persecution (John 15:18-27)
 

Us catholic bishops and abortion part 2

  • 1. US Catholic bishops and abortion - part 2 continued from: http://www.scribd.com/doc/101988973/US-Catholic-Bishops-and-Abortion quote: Originally posted by Phil: Oh, I surely do recall Charles Curran's visit to LSU and the controversy around all that. It was the beginning of the end of our campus ministry team. I remember when his critique of the bishops approach you linked to came out a couple of years ago. That, too, stirred things up quite a bit. I think we might have discussed it here. All in all, I find it a good summary, but I find a few things to quibble about. E.g., quote: Recently the bishops have made the argument that since abortion is an intrinsic moral evil, it thus differs from all other legal issues such as immigration, death penalty, human rights, or the first use of nuclear weapons. This is a faulty argument. The primary problem is that intrinsic evil is a moral term and not a legal term. The fact that something is an intrinsic moral evil has nothing to do with law or legality. Aquinas himself following Augustine was willing to accept no law against prostitution, which according to Catholic teaching is a morally intrinsic evil. Many states in our country do not have criminal laws against adultery, but Catholic teaching insists that adultery is an intrinsic moral evil. No Catholic bishops have campaigned to have criminal laws against adultery. Thus the very fact that something is an intrinsic moral evil does not mean there should always be a law against it. That point seems disingenuous, insofar as the intrinsic evil is more akin to murder than anything else, and no country approves of the intentional destruction of innocent human life, which the bishops maintain a fetus is. And they are correct on this point; a fetus is indisputably a human life, and an individual human genome, at that, after the 3rd week of life, for sure. Questions about ensoulment, personhood, etc. are another matter, and I think you and Curran are correct in pointing out that excessive reliance on essentialistic approaches to establishing such status are as weak (and as strong) as the philosophical approach. Without rehashing old discussions, here, I don't think they need to go down that road; biological individuality is a strong enough point to build an argument on, imo, and they're on completely safe ground there. All that's left to discuss is the right of that biological individual genome to its proper future versus a woman's right to carry such life (or not) to term. Pro-
  • 2. choicers give more weight to the mother's right to decide; the bishops claim that the fetus' right to life trumps, and that to terminate such a life is an intrinsically evil act more akin to murder, which every society loathes and punishes. If one follows the links at the bottom of those NCR pages, there was some give and take between Curran and other responders that clarifies this matter. Curran was stipulating to the magisterium's position regarding the moral reality of abortion, merely pointing out that being an intrinsic evil, alone, would not be a sufficient reason to criminalize an act (over against some poorly nuanced statements by bishops). That point, when coupled with the speculative doubt regarding personhood, could contribute to a reasonable argument against criminalization and precisely because nothing tantamount to murder is in play, consistent with the observation that most societies, in fact, do not criminalize abortion. I suspect Curran described such doubt as speculative in order to distinguish it from empirical doubt, the former being a doubt of law , where probabilistic systems may apply, the latter, a doubt of fact , where probabilism would not apply if human life and justice are at stake, although there is some evidence in church tradition that this is not always the case. quote: Originally posted by Phil:Shasha's post #5 from the top expresses the precise sentiments I think the bishops hope that Catholics will hold to, and I strongly empathize with this. I can even go along with Rev. Jay Scott's statement quoted above (minus the threat of mortal sin and damnation), that Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil. That's really true! Of course, one must define what is meant by "plausible pro-life alternative." What gets lost in the conversation is prudential judgment, which strategies will probably work the best to achieve the consensus goal of reducing abortions, the pro-life goal of eliminating them. A plausible pro-life alternative must be based on results not rhetoric. Even the who, what, when, where and how of criminalization is subject to prudential judgment. They seem to ignore such common sense calculus as weighing, for example, the likelihood of abortion law being changed by one POTUS candidate against the likelihood of an imprudent war being waged by another. quote: Originally posted by Phil: Johnboy, you seem convinced that the gap between the bishops' teaching and Catholic voting behavior has less to do with what you called "an unreceptive audience" than with poorly reasoned or
  • 3. presented teaching. Do you really believe most Catholics are that tuned in to what you list as inconsistent arguments, erroneous presuppositions, flawed metaphysics, poor epistemology? I only wish they were that tuned in and reflective about this matter. You also find hope for a more effective pedagogy on this and related issues in our social teachings. Maybe you could say more about that sometime. We can distinguish between being epistemologically competent and being schooled in epistemology. The former combines common sense and love in a wisdom experienced in one's bones. People are indeed tuned in to what I list because such a tuning is moreso intuitive, experiential, existential, aesthetic, moral and practical, what I have often distinguished as arising from our participatory imaginations rather than merely our conceptual map-making. People "know" through the way they live and move and have their being that the procreative dimension to marriage is more than an isolated physical act, that the unitive dimension of conjugal love is important. They don't have to jump through metaphysical hoops to figure out that masturbation and murder are not equally grave. They "know" that distributing condoms to prevent AIDS in Africa is a no-brainer that doesn't require a panel of bio-ethicists to deliberate. They "know" that the procreative values to be realized in a marriage are not threatened by the use of contraception because openness to generativity is a disposition oriented toward the lifetime of the relationship more than any individual act. They "know" that the sacerdotal roles of a priest are not inextricably tied to her gender. They "know" that, given an unfortunate choice, it is infinitely more morally compelling to rescue a single baby from a fire at a preschool than hundreds of frozen embryos in the cryobank next door. Of course, every value-realization involves an axiological holon of epistemic warrant, normative justification, evaluative eco-rationality and interpretive impetus, in other words, including both our participatory imagination and conceptual-mapmaking, our reason and intuition, our rational, pre-rational, nonrational and supra-rational dispositions. But human deliberations are far more informal than formal. A casuistry immersed in metaphysical abstractions and deductive rationalism apart from concrete lived experience loses its relevance to the faithful, who sniff out such a flawed metaphysics and poor epistemology as true philosophers, who are people who have simply lived life well. The erroneous presuppositions needn't be articulated formally, as they can be dismissed reductio ad absurdum for what they are, patently absurd. All it takes to spot an inconsistent argument is, well, inconsistency, a reality about which the magisterium is hypersensitive, so often disingenuously maintaining that thus and such has been the so-called constant tradition. This is one reason given for not changing the teaching on contraception: What about all the faithful we've already sent to hell? or The faithful would be scandalized if we changed our position!
  • 4. In the old days, both our social justice and sexual morality teachings relied on approaches based in classicism, natural law and legalism. Nowadays, our social justice theory employs three new methodologies, respectively, historical consciousness, personalism and relationality-responsibility. Modern Catholic social justice teachings enjoy widespread credibility due to these updated methodologies, which are eminently transparent to human reason. Catholic Ethics in Tension: Sexuality and Social Justice by Rev. Charles Curran All that said, the magisterium has been decidedly on the side of all that is true, beautiful, good and unitive, even if often fallibly making its way in walking alongside and ministering to the pilgrim people of God. It, among other ecclesial magisteria, is an indispensable witness to revelation and deserving of deference and engagement in one's conscience formation. Regarding the moral reality of abortion, because I find the arguments compelling that both probabilism and prudential judgment are in play, it seems to me that people of both large intelligence and profound goodwill can disagree regarding - not only the legal and political dimensions, but - its morality, making vilification, demonization and ad hominem characterizations (eg you therefore, definitionally and necessarily, have a poorly-formed conscience) of others totally off limits. It also means that I believe that - not only can one vote for a pro-choice candidate, but - one can be Catholic and pro-choice, if sufficiently nuanced. Even those who are quite confident that ensoulment is variously delayed should take into account both their own and others' moral sensibilities, feelings and aesthetics playing an important role in moral evaluations, and couple those with an appreciation for other probable (authoritative) opinions as exist in probabilistic systems, along with some speculative self-critical doubt, and concede that no human life or being, person or not metaphysically, lacks moral significance, even if that significance is less than absolute, and that, therefore, no decision to abort should be made casually or cavalierly, that no gift should be returned dismissively or without consideration.