Ted kim deposition

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON
AT SEATTLE
- - - X
F.L.B., a minor, by and
through his Next Friend,
Casey Trupin; et al., Case No.
Plaintiffs-Petitioners, 2014-cv-01026-TSZ
v.
LORETTA E. LYNCH, Attorney
General, United States; et
al.,
Defendants-Respondents.
X
Deposition of TED KIM, a Rule 30 (b) (6)
Thursday, May 26, 2016
Washington, D.C.
Reported by:
ANGELA K. MCCULLOUGH
Job no: 16475
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DECLARATION OF STEPHEN KANG IN
SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS' MOTION
FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT - 201
Case No. 2:14-cv-01026-TSZ
NORTHWEST IMMIGRANT RIGHTS PROJECT
615 Second Avenue, Suite 400
Seattle, WA 98104
Tel. (206) 957-8611
Case 2:14-cv-01026-TSZ Document 343-1 Filed 08/11/16 Page 193 of 251

Page 33
1 Q. Is this something that is tracked by the
2 agency?
3 MR. SILVIS: Objection; vague.
4 THE WITNESS: I don't know off the top of
5 my head.
6 BY MS. IGUINA:
7 Q. Do you know who would know?
8 A. I'm not sure.
9 MS. IGUINA: I'm going to hand to the
10 court reporter to hand to the witness a document to
11 be marked Exhibit 56 I believe.
12 (Exhibit No. 56 was marked for
13 identification.)
14 BY MS. IGUINA:
15 Q. Do you recognize this document?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What is it?
18 A. It is an instruction sheet that is given
19 to an individual in immigration court by ICE because
20 they appear to be a UAC.
21 Q. Who prepares this document?
22 A. What do you mean by "who prepares this
23 document"?
24 Q. Which agency prepares this document?
25 Let me rephrase the question.
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1 provided on the USCIS website are available in any
2 other language?
3 A. I don't recall.
4 MS. IGUINA: I'm going to provide to the
5 court reporter to mark as Exhibit 58 --
7 identification.)
8 MS. IGUINA: I've provided copies to
9 counsel.
10 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
11 BY MS. IGUINA:
12 Q. Do you recognize that document?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Are you familiar with the contents of the
15 document?
16 A. Generally, yes.
17 Q. Does the form -- could you state on the
18 record what the document is?
19 A. It's the I-589 Application For Asylum and
20 For Withholding of Removal.
21 Q. And does Form I-589 provide instructions
22 for UCs who are in removal proceedings of their
23 ability to file an asylum claim with the USCIS?
24 A. Are the instructions part of the exhibit?
25 Q. Just the I-589 itself. The question is
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1 just as to the I-589.
2 A. Oh, just -- oh, I thought you asked about
3 the instructions to the I-589.
4 Q. So does the I-589 form itself provide any
5 instruction for UCs as to their ability to file an
6 application with USCIS?
7 A. It does not appear so.
8 MS. IGUINA: I am handing to the court
9 reporter to mark as Exhibit 59 --
11 identification.)
12 MS. IGUINA: I'm providing copies to
13 counsel.
15 BY MS. IGUINA:
16 Q. Do you recognize the document?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What is it?
19 A. These are the instructions to the I-589.
20 Q. Directing your attention to page 9,
21 section 12, "Where to File." Do you see that?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Are you familiar with the instructions
24 that are provided in this document?
25 A. Very tangentially.
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1 Q. Does the form provide instructions to
2 children who have been designated UAC who are in
3 removal proceedings that they can file an application
4 for asylum with the USCIS?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Other than the Questions and Answers
7 document that you referenced earlier available on the
8 USCIS website, are there any other instructions
9 available on the USCIS website that provide
10 instruction to a UAC who is in removal proceedings of
11 their ability to file with USCIS?
12 A. Other than Exhibit 57?
13 Q. Yes. And the Questions and Answers
14 portion that you --
15 A. And these links on Exhibit 57?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. I don't know if I know enough about what's
18 on the website about children to know the answer to
19 that question. There could be more --
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. -- but I'm not sure.
22 Q. Okay. If a child finds out about the
23 process for applying for asylum with USCIS in the
24 first instance, what is required of them?
25 MR. SILVIS: Objection; vague.
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1 THE WITNESS: Required of them? So a
2 child finds out about the opportunity to file for
3 asylum with users. And you're asking what is
4 required --
5 BY MS. IGUINA:
6 Q. Let me rephrase the question.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What steps do they need to take to apply
9 for asylum?
10 A. They will complete an I-589 and mail it to
11 the proper address where it will be received by
12 USCIS. At some point in the process after that, they
13 will be called into one of our asylum offices or
14 circuit ride destination for an asylum interview.
15 The Asylum Division will adjudicate the claim and
16 will issue a decision. Those are the general steps
17 involved.
18 Q. Does the child have to submit any
19 documents -- strike that.
20 Does the UC have to submit any documents
21 with the application for asylum with CIS?
22 A. I believe if they want to file under the
23 TVPRA initial jurisdiction provision, they should
24 provide some kind of evidence and documentation about
25 their UAC status or the -- or the instruction sheet
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1 that they received if they already had an immigration
2 court hearing. I think -- I think these things are
3 kind of spelled out in the instruction sheet that we
4 discussed, among other places.
5 Q. This is Exhibit 56?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Is there a requirement that that
8 instruction sheet be provided in every case involving
9 a'UAC?
10 MR. SILVIS: Objection. That's vague.
11 THE WITNESS: I don't know what ICE
12 requires. And I know that these instruction sheets
13 are handed out in immigration court where we are not
14 present.
15 (Counsel confer.)
16 BY MS. IGUINA:
17 Q. Is there a requirement that the
18 instruction sheet be provided in_any -- in every case
19 involving a UAC filing an application for asylum with
20 CIS?
21 A. Not that I'm aware of.
22 Q. Is there a requirement that the child
23 submit the application in a particular language?
24 A.
25 Q.
I have not thought about that.
Are you aware of any allowance that will
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1 permit a child to file an application in a language
2 other than English?
3 A. I have not heard of that happening. But I
4 do know that lots of documents associated with the
5 I-589 are in a language other than English and
6 Q. Is there -- excuse me. I didn't mean to
7 interrupt you.
8 A. And many applicants have translations made
9 of those documents. And I -- and in certain
10 instances, users can leverage its interpreter
11 services to translate any documents we feel are
12 necessary to understand.
13 Q. In what percentage of cases does CIS
14 itself provide the interpretation services for
15 documents that are submitted with the asylum
16 application for a UC?
17 MR. SILVIS: Objection; topic.
18 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I would
19 imagine it's not that often.
20 BY MS. IGUINA:
21 Q. Is there a requirement that the child
22 submit a particular number of copies with the
23 application?
24 A.
25 to two.
I should know this. It just got changed
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1 Q. And what happens if a UC fails to comply
2 with these instructions regarding the application
I
3 process?
4 MR. SILVIS: Object to the topic.
5 THE WITNESS: That will depend on what the
6 violation is.
7 BY MS. IGUINA:
8 Q. So what happens if a UC fails to comply
9 with the requirement that the strike that.
10 What does users do if a child submits an
11 application completely in Spanish? 1:
I
12 MR. SILVIS: Objection to the topic.
13 THE WITNESS: I don't know what would
14 happen.
15 BY MS. IGUINA:
16 Q. Does USCIS reject filings of -- strike
17 that.
18 Does CIS have a policy of rejecting asylum
19 applications filed with the office that fail to
20 comply with the application requirements?
22 THE WITNESS: It depends on what those
23 requirements that they failed to comply by.
24 BY MS. IGUINA:
25 Q. What is the CIS policy on the rejection of
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1 applications that are submitted in a language other
2 than English?
3 MR. SILVIS: Same objection.
4 THE WITNESS: I don't know if it would be
5 rejected on that basis.
6 BY MS. IGUINA:
7 Q. Is there a child-specific rule as to the
8 rejection of asylum applications submitted by
9 children who have been designated UC if they fail to
10 comply with the application requirements?
12 THE WITNESS: I am not aware of the
13 rejection policies, if there are any, specific to
14 children.
15 BY MS. IGUINA:
16 Q. Can you give me some examples of why CIS
17 rejects a filing that is submitted to its office?
19 Just to clarify, are you asking for users
20 or just the asylum office?
21 BY MS. IGUINA:
22 Q. Let's ask the -- specifically about the
23 asylum office, specifically the I-589.
24 A. If the asylum application is deemed
25 incomplete, it will be rejected.
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1 Q. Are there special rules about rejection of
2 a filing of a 589 by a UC with that application if
3 the I-589 application is incomplete?
5 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware of any special
6 rules for children in the rejection policy.
7 MS. IGUINA: I think this is a good point
8 for a break.
9 (Recess. )
10 BY MS. IGUINA:
11 Q. You mentioned in your testimony that after
12 a child an unaccompanied alien child submits an
13 asylum application with users, an interview would be
14 conducted; is that correct?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. So an interview notice would be mailed to
17 the child; is that correct?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. Can a child submit that -- sorry. If a
20 child -- yes.
21 If a child changes his or her address
22 after -- if an unaccompanied child changes their
23 address after they have submitted an I-589, what do
24 they need to do?
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1 THE WITNESS: They need to inform the
2 agency that they moved.
3 BY MS. IGUINA:
4 Q. And by "agency, 11
you mean CIS?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Is there a particular form that they need
7 to fill out?
8 A. My understanding is that they can change
9 their address in a couple of different ways.
10 Q. What would be those ways?
11 A. One way would be to contact the asylum
12 office.
13 Q. What number would they need to call?
14 Strike that.
15 How would they contact the asylum office?
16 A. There is information about the asylum
17 offices office on the website, among other places.
18 Q. What other ways would a child be able to
19 change his or her address with the asylum office?
20 A. I think some of the procedures may have
21 changed. But it 1
S -- there is a section on the
22 website that tells you the different ways.
23 Q. So other than information that 1
s provided
24 on the website, are there other ways in which a child
25 can change his or her address with the agency?
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2 Q. Is there a child-specific instruction
3 sheet that is provided to children regarding their
4 ability to change the address?
6 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware of.
7 BY MS. IGUINA:
8 Q. What happens if a child changes his or her
9 address with EOIR but does not do so with by CIS?
10 And by EOIR, I mean the Executive Office
11 of Immigration Review, which includes the immigration
12 courts.
14 THE WITNESS: That -- are we still talking
15 about the context in which they filed an application
16 with the users already?
17 BY MS. IGUINA:
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. Okay. I'm not aware of a specific process
20 that where that information would be conveyed from
21 one agency to another. But that doesn't mean it
22 doesn't happen or doesn't exist, I'm just not aware
23 of it.
24 Q. Okay. What happens if CIS receives an
25 ·interview notice to a UC placed -- to a UC returned
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1 in the mail?
2 A. Can you repeat the question?
3 Q. What happens if CIS receives an interview
4 notice that has been sent to a UC returned in the
5 mail?
7 THE WITNESS: There are procedures in
8 place to deal with undeliverable notices in our
9 procedures manual, which is online. And I don't know
10 those details off the top of my head.
11 BY MS. IGUINA:
12 Q. Other than the procedures manual available
13 online, are there any other instructions provided to
14 CIS officers regarding how to process a UC interview
15 notice that has been returned in the mail?
16 A. No. That would be the primary source, and
17 I don't think it would be an officer who would be
18 handling that, rather support staff probably.
19 Q. And there is no additional instruction
20 provided to that support staff other than the
21 procedures?
22 A. Other than the procedures manual, no. The
23 procedure manual is very in depth, in case you've
24 never seen it.
25 Q. Other than regular mail, is the child
..
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1 notified of the interview in any other way?
3 Q. Is any other agency notified of the
4 interview when a UC is scheduled for asylum
I
5 interview?
7 THE WITNESS: Government agency?
8 BY MS. IGUINA:
9 Q. Is -- is DHS notified when an interview
10 has been scheduled or a UAC who has applied for
11 asylum with users -- ICE?
12 A. Oh, ICE?
13 Q. Yes. Excuse me.
14 MR. SILVIS: Object to the form.
15 THE WITNESS: Is ICE notified when we
16 schedule an interview? Not as a general rule.
17 BY MS. IGUINA: 11
18 Q. Is EOIR notified when a child, a UC has
19 been scheduled for an interview by the agency?
20 A. Not as a general rule.
21 Q. If the child has an attorney, is the
22 attorney notified of the interview date?
23 Let me clarify. If a UC has an attorney,
24 is that attorney notified of the interview scheduled
25 by CIS?
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1 A. Yes. If they have filed a G-28.
2 Q. What happens if a child fails to appear --
3 strike that.
4 What happens if a UC fails to appear for
5 an asylum interview?
6 A. We automatically reschedule that person.
7 Q. How many times will CIS reschedule the
8 interview for a -- for a UC who fails to appear for
9 an interview?
10 A. I know it 1
s at least once, which I
11 remember because we don 1
t do that for non-children.
12 Q. Is that the practice for children who are
13 not designated UC who apply for asylum?
14 A. I believe the same is true, yes, for
15 principal minor applicants.
16 Q. And where is that policy regarding the
17 automatic rescheduling of an interview for a UC who
18 fails to appear for an interview?
19 A. I think it 1
s in the procedures manual, but
20 I 1
m not sure.
21 Q. Does CIS attempt to investigate whether
22 there is an error in the address where the interview
23
24
25
notice was sent to the UC?
MR. SILVIS: Object to the topic.
THE WITNESS: Again, there are detailed
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1 procedures on how to handle that in the procedures
2 manual, but I believe we take some steps to look at
3 records to see if we have the most updated address.
4 BY MS. IGUINA:
5 Q. Does CIS check the immigration court file
6 to see if the -- if a UC has filed a new -- a change
7 of address form with EOIR?
8 A. It's possible, but I can't be sure.
9 Q. If it is a requirement, would it be set
10 out in the procedures manual?
11 A. Possibly.
12 Q. At what point do you make a determination
13 that jurisdiction no longer lies with the users after
14 a UC fails to appear for several interviews?
15 A. Again, I -- I know that we reschedule it
16 once after they fail to appear without any --
17 usually, we require a -- a letter requesting a
18 reschedule or some -- some sort of written
19 acknowledgement from the applicant after they've
20 missed an interview. But we don't require anything
21 from a UAC who misses an interview and we just
22 reschedule automatically, at least once. But I'm a
23 bit fuzzy on what happens after that.
24
25
Q. Okay. If a child submits an application
with CIS, are his or her removal proceedings
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1 suspended pending that -- a determination by CIS?
3 Q. If a UC submits an application for asylum
4 with users, are his or her removal proceedings in
5 immigration court suspended while pending a
6 determination of that application by CIS?
7 A. Suspended? I think -- my understanding is
8 the courts, once they know that a UAC is going to
9 file for asylum with users, they can do one of
10 several things, including continuing the case, or
11 administratively closing the case, or even
12 terminating the case while the asylum application is
13 adjudicated by users.
14 Q. So it is possible then that a child has
15 both appointments with CIS and with immigration court
16 during the same period; is that correct?
17 MR. SILVIS: Objection to the form of the
18 question.
19 THE WITNESS: If I --
20 MR. SILVIS: And topic.
21 Sorry.
22 THE WITNESS: If I understand the question
23 correctly, it is possible that the UAC, once they
24 file an application with users, can have a future
25 asylum interview date with the users and a court
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1 hearing date that is beyond that. So that is
2 definitely possible.
3 BY MS. IGUINA:
4 Q. How does immigration court find out that a
5 child has been scheduled for -- the UC has been
6 scheduled for an asylum interview with CIS?
8 THE WITNESS: I don't know how the
9 immigration court finds out about interviews. I
10 think there is coordination on the outcomes in
11 certain instances.
12 BY MS. IGUINA:
13 Q. What do you mean by, "Coordination on the
14 outcomes"?
15 A. So, for example, as you mentioned, if
16 there is an asylum interview scheduled and an
17 immigration court date scheduled, we may coordinate
18 with ICE counsel to let them know the outcome of that
19 asylum case prior to the immigration court date.
20 Q. So you said that you may coordinate. Is
21 there a requirement that there be coordination with
22 ICE?
23 A.
24 guidance.
25 ICE, yes.
I think it is in the procedures, in the
It outlines when we should coordinate with
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1 Q. Other than the procedures manual, is there
2 any other source of policy regarding the
3 communication between CIS and ICE on a UC's asylum
4 application?
5 A. So usually, there are memos whenever there
6 are procedures that are ruled out, and those are
7 eventually recorded in the overall procedures
8 manual -- integrated. So they are likely in the
9 memos as well.
10 Q. Would those memos have been -- if they
11 were not included in the procedures manual, would
12 those memos have been produced in discovery in this
13 case?
14 A. Yes. I'm pretty sure they were.
15 Q. Going back to the issue of appointments,
16 you testified that it is possible that a UC would
17 have a future interview appointment with CIS and an
18 immigration court appointment. Is that an
19 accurate
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Is there an effort to make sure that the
22 appointments do not conflict?
23 A.
24 Q.
25 A.
Conflict meaning the same date?
Yes.
Yes. If -- if that would happen, I would
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1 think that would be an instance where we would
2 coordinate with ICE to untangle that.
3 Q. How would CIS find out about the conflict?
4 A. There are various ways. We do systems
5 checks on each applicant before the interview, and we
6 could learn about it that way. We could learn about
7 it through the applicant.
8 Q. Is there a requirement that there be a
9 systems check completed before an interview is
10 scheduled for a UC?
11 A. One of the checks -- required checks is to
12 check the EOIR status.
13 Q. If a child shows up to CIS instead of
14 immigration court in error, do you make any effort to
15 contact the court?
17 THE WITNESS: Again, this is so
18 case-by-case. I would think we -- in situations like
19 that, we would make an effort to untangle any
20 conflicts.
21 BY MS. IGUINA:
22 Q. Is there a policy requiring CIS to contact
23 immigration court if a child shows up to CIS in error
24 instead of to immigration court?
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1 THE WITNESS: There could be, but I'm
2 not -- I'm not sure.
3 BY MS. IGUINA:
4 Q. Do you track whether that happens in
5 cases?
7 THE WITNESS: Things are often recorded in
8 the file, but I don't think that's what you mean.
9 I don't know. Is it?
10 BY MS. IGUINA:
11 Q. Well, is there any requirement that
12 that that those efforts to contact the immigration
13 court in the case of a child who shows up to CIS in
14 error, are those efforts required to be tracked in
15 any way?
16 A. Tracked insofar as it's likely there will
17 be a record made of that instance.
18 Q. But there's no requirement that that
19 record be made?
20 A. Yeah. I think that would be chalked up to
21 unforeseen circumstances perhaps.
22 Q. If a UC fails to show to court, is there
23 any effort to vacate an in absentia order if the same
24 child is showing up to interviews with CIS?
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1 THE WITNESS: So I 1
m confused about the
2 scenario. A UAC already is ordered removed via an in
3 absentia order and then shows up at CIS? Is that the
4 scenario?
5 BY MS. IGUINA:
6 Q. Yes. A -- a UC who has already submitted
7 an asylum application with CIS is subsequently
8 ordered removed in absentia for failure to appear in
9 court. Is there any effort to vacate the in absentia ,
10 order in those cases? •
12 THE WITNESS: Our procedures require, ln
13 that case especially, the asylum officer to
14 determine, in no uncertain terms, where the
15 jurisdiction lies. And if there is -- there 1
s any
16 confusion about that or misunderstanding between the
17 agencies, we would have to clear that up.
18 BY MS. IGUINA:
19 Q. So is there a policy requiring CIS to
20 assist in the lifting of an in absentia removal order
21 in the case of a UC who fails to appear in court?
23 THE WITNESS: I 1
m not aware of anything
24 that specific. Again, I 1
m aware of our guidance
25 requiring our officers to be very sure of
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1 jurisdiction and where in which agency the case
2 should be adjudicated. And if there's any instance
3 where we cannot do our jobs because of some
4 circumstance like an in absentia order, it would be
5 understood that we would have to fix that --
6 BY MS. IGUINA:
7 Q. So it
8 A. in order to do our jobs. We cannot do
9 our jobs if there are blockages. So we it's
10 understood, of course, we would have to clear that
11 up.
12 Q. But is there a policy -- a CIS policy
13 setting out that expectation that when a child -- a
14 UC has a removal order in absentia, CIS assists in
15 the lifting of the removal order?
17 THE WITNESS: Again, I'm not aware of
18 anything that specific. But certainly the
19 expectation is there if it's preventing us from doing
20 our jobs.
21 BY MS. IGUINA:
22 Q. Are you aware of any cases in which an
23 asylum officer has in fact communicated with EOIR to
24 clear an in absentia order that has been entered
25 against a UC who failed to appear in court but who
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1 had filed an asylum application with -- with CIS?
2 A. r•m not aware of specific cases.
3 Q. Would you still -- would CIS still
4 adjudicate the asylum application submitted by a UC
5 who has an in absentia order?
6 A. I think, again, we would have to clear up,
7 in no uncertain terms, where the jurisdiction of the
8 case lies before we adjudicate the case.
9 Q. So is it fair to say that if the in
10 absentia removal order remains in place, CIS would
11 not adjudicate until the in absentia removal order is
12 lifted by the court?
14 THE WITNESS: If the order -- if the order
15 is -- they applied for asylum with the users then
16 received an in absentia removal order, we would have
17 to look into what circumstances cause that and if --
18 if we have jurisdiction over that case still.
19 I can•t think of a -- I can•t think of
20 I can•t flush out the scenario in my mind where
21 that -- we would be in a position to act because, you
22 know, again, it would be a matter of jurisdiction and
23 whether we•re able to adjudicate the case.
24 BY MS. IGUINA:
25 Q. Are you aware of any CIS policies
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1 regarding the adjudication of cases of children with
2 in absentia orders?
4 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware of any
5 specific users policies regarding UAC's and in
6 absentia removal orders, but it could be out there.
7 BY MS. IGUINA:
8 Q. Does CIS provide instructions to a UC on
9 how to vacate an in absentia order?
11 THE WITNESS: The question is based on the
12 premise that asylum officers had the authority to
13 vacate removal orders, and we do not.
14 BY MS. IGUINA:
15 Q. The question is whether CIS provide
16 instructions to a UC on how to go about, him or
17 herself, to seek that that order be vacated through
18 the immigration court.
19 A. I'm not aware of any procedures that we
20 have instructing UACs to vacate in absentia removal
21 orders in immigration court.
22 Q. In addition to a interview notice, a UC
23 who applies for asylum to -- with CIS is also sent
24 information on how to complete the biometrics
25 process; is that correct?
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1 A. I believe so.
2 Q. Are the instructions available in any
3 language other than English?
4 A. r•m not aware. It could be. There is
5 a -- USCIS website has a Spanish side to it. And r•m
6 not aware of which documents may be translated on
7 that site and which are not.
8 Q. Other than Spanish, would they be
9 translated in any other language?
10 A. Possibly. r•m not familiar with it.
11 Q. You don•t know specifically as to
12 biometrics?
13 A. As to biometrics, correct.
14 Q. What is the biometrics -- what is the
15 process for a UC to complete the biometrics?
16 A. The biometrics notice would asked them to
17 appear at an application support center. And there
18 are age restrictions, so I think for children under
19 had 14, we don•t fingerprint. So there are certain
20 age restrictions on what the agency -- what
21 biometrics the agency takes according to those age
22 parameters.
23 But let•s say the kid is 16 or 17. We
24 would at the application support center, they
25 would take fingerprints, I believe. And usually, we
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1 take a photograph and a signature. Yeah.
2 Q. Is the child -- is a UC provided with a
3 window of time during which they need to complete the
4 biometrics process?
5 A. I think -- I think the way it stands, the
6 last time a checked, every asylum applicant,
7 including UCs, are given a window of time to report,
8 not a specific date. But things -- things change
9 quickly on the tech front, so that --but that's my
10 last understanding.
11 Q. For children -- for UCs who are over
12 14 years of age, is the biometrics process the -- the
13 same as it is for adults who are applying for asylum
14 with CIS?
15 A. As far as the biometrics that we collect,
16 I believe so. I -- the ASC may have separate
17 procedures on how they handle elderly people and
18 young people. But I'm not -- I don't have visibility
19 into that.
20 Q. So you don't know if there are different
21 rules for the biometrics process for children over
22 14?
23 A. I know the biometrics people -- the ASCs
24 have their own SOPs on how to do their work, and I
25 don't have any visibility into their part of it. As
.. ..
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Page 67
1 for Asylum's part of it, you know, we require
2 fingerprints for sure.
3 Q. I believe you did so already, but what
4 does ASC stand for?
5 A. Application Support Center.
6 Q. And what does SOP stand for?
7 A. Standard operating procedure.
8 Q. And are those procedures available
9 publicly for the ASCs?
10 A. I don't know.
11 Q. What happens if a child -- if a UC does
12 not have transportation to an ASC to complete the
13 biometrics process? 1
,
I
15 THE WITNESS: I don't know what happens.
16 BY MS. IGUINA: 1:
17 Q. Does CIS provide transportation to a UC
18 who does not have transportation to an ASC?
19 A. I don't think so, but I would caveat that
20 by saying I've definitely seen several instances over
21 the years where the ASCs have made special
22 arrangements.
23 One case that comes to mind is a
24 terminally ill patient in a hospital where we
25 there are -- there are ways we can collect things
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1 with a mobile unit and in special cases, that has
2 happened. Whether that's happened in the case of a
3 young child for instance, I'm not sure. But --
4 BY MS. IGUINA:
5 Q. So you don't have -- I'm sorry. I didn't
6 mean to interrupt.
7 A. But there are there's that ability, I
8 guess is what I'm trying to say.
9 Q. You're not aware of any specific instances
10 in which transportation was provided to a UC who
11 wasn't able to reach an ASC center?
12 A. Not that I recall at the moment.
13 Q. Where are asylum interviews conducted for
14 a UC who applies with CIS?
15 A. In a users facility.
16 Q. What happens if a child or CIS needs to
17 reschedule during a circuit ride? You mentioned
18 circuit rides before.
19 A. As with an appointment anywhere, they
20 would have to notify the asylum office and ask for a
21 rescheduled appointment.
22
23
24
25
Q. How often do circuit rides occur?
A. It really depends on the office, how much
work they have, and their staffing. Host of factors.
Q. Could you just explain for the record what
...
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1 a circuit ride is?
2 A. A circuit ride occurs when -- let me start
3 over.
4 For applicants who do not live close to
5 one of our eight main asylum offices, there are
6 specific locations to which we travel to interview
7 asylum applicants, and those are called circuit
8 rides.
9 Q. What happens if a UC can not get to the
10 asylum office or to other CIS office if the interview
11 is scheduled for a circuit ride?
12 A. We unless -- unless someone contacts
13 the office to let them know they won't be coming to
14 the appointment, we will treat that as a missed
15 appointment, and that slot is an empty slot.
16 Q. Does CIS provide transportation services
17 to children who cannot reach the asylum office or the
18 circuit ride office?
19 A. No.
20 Q. During the asylum interview itself, what
21 happens if a UC does not speak English?
22 A. We -- we require that, generally speaking,
23 the child brings an interpreter to the interview if
24 they can not communicate effectively in English.
25 Q. And if -- what happens if the child fails
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1 to bring an interpreter to the interview?
2 A. We will see if there is any way that we
3 could find someone, that the attorney-- if they're
4 represented -- or the relative knows who can
5 interpret on the spot.
6 In certain cases, we may be able to use
7 our interpreter services. If all else fails, we will
8 reschedule the person to enable that person to find
9 an adequate interpreter.
10 Q. Where are these -- where are U -- CIS
11 policies set out regarding the attempts to find
12 alternative interpreters and/or use CIS interpreters
13 if a child fails to bring an interpret to an
14 interview?
15 A. Our interpreter policies are contained in
16 two main places: Our procedures manual, and we have
17 general guidelines also in our lesson plan training
18 module called "Working With Interpreters."
19 Q. Okay. Other than these two documents, is
20 users policy regarding the use of interpreters in
21 children's cases set out anywhere else?
22 A. I am not aware of any. It could be. But
23 those are the two main places I know of.
24 Q. And is there a rule on how many times CIS
25 will reschedule an interview if a child fails to
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1 bring an interpreter?
2 A. I'm not aware of a rule.
3 Q. Can a child request a continuance of an
4 interview?
5 A. It's a case-by-case policy, I would say.
6 And similar to the circumstance like an
7 interpretation problem or finding an interpreter, we
8 are able to reschedule interviews for, you know,
9 serious issues like that.
10 Q. Is there CIS policy on when the agency
11 will agree to a continuance in a case of a UC?
12 A. A lot of this is is found in the
13 procedures manual. I don't know if there's a
14 specific section on when you can reschedule an
15 interview. But I know that the -- the procedures
16 manual contains sections like working with
17 interpreters or other things where it could outline a
18 scenario where you should or can reschedule an
19 interview.
20 Q. What is the process for requesting a
21 continuance for a UC?
22 A. In mid-interview?
23 Q. Before an interview, for a UC.
24 A. Before. Again, I think this one is
25 definitely clearly spelled out in the procedures
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:~~~--~~~---------=--=----:__:::.:::==---=--...:-...:-~~~-=-==---=--=-====----:::c---=---=--::-=.----- ---~--=::::_c:::::_ _:_::_-_-_.::_-__:_:_-::::::.:::=----==-::-::1~- -------------- ---------------
1 manual. But generally speaking, you have to notify
2 the asylum office in advance.
3 Q. Are the interviews videotaped?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Are they audio recorded?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Is the child allowed to audio record the
8 interview?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Is the child allowed to video record the
11 interview?
12 A. No.
13 Q. How is the interview itself recorded?
14 Strike that.
15 Is there a record made of the interview?
16 A. There is a record. The officer takes
17 notes, and it is not a transcript.
18 Q. Are those asylum officer's notes shared
19 with the child?
20 A. No.
21 Q. What if a UC submits a FOIA request for
22 the notes?
23 MR. SILVIS: Objection; topic.
24 THE WITNESS: I -- I think there was a
25 recent case that allows us now to share notes through
... ...
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1 the FOIA process.
2 BY MS. IGUINA:
3 Q. Do you know the name of the case?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Was it a federal court case?
6 A. I think so.
7 Q. For the interviews, is there a requirement
8 that the child submit documents or evidence in
9 support of his or her asylum application?
11 Q. Is there a requirement that the UC submit
12 documents or evidence in support of his or her asylum
13 application?
14 MR. SILVIS: Object; asked and answered.
15 BY MS. IGUINA:
16 Q. This is specifically for the interview.
17 A. Is there -- is there a requirement that
18 the applicant must submit supporting documentation
19 with the application; is that the question?
20 Q. Yes, at the time of the interview.
21 A. There's no requirement.
22 Q. If a child -- strike that.
23 Is there a deadline for submission of
24 documents or other evidence prior to the asylum
25 interview?
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Page 78
1 A. I don't know if it's been produced.
2 Q. Could it be produced in discovery as part
3 of this litigation?
4 A. I don't know the rules on discovery, so I
5 don't know if it could or could not be, but we have
6 it.
7 Q. Okay. The additional training that you
8 referenced, including the weekly training and one-off
9 trainings, are there any other types of trainings you
10 provide to asylum officers?
11 A. Basic, weekly, one-off. Is there any
12 other kind?
13 Q. Any other -- any other trainings that you
14 provide to asylum officers?
15 A. Those are all the types I can think of.
16 MR. SILVIS: Just to clarify, are you
17 asking about children's cases or all cases?
18 MS. IGUINA: For children's cases.
19 I'm asking the court reporter to mark as
20 Exhibit 61.
22 identification.)
24 BY MS. IGUINA:
25 Q. Do you recognize this document?
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Page 110
1 services providers regarding UAC asylum claims?
2 A. We have in the past.
3 MS. IGUINA: I'm going to ask the court
4 reporter to mark this Exhibit 65.
6 identification.)
8 BY MS. IGUINA:
9 Q. Do you recognize that document?
10 A. Was this also in the materials we
11 provided?
12 Q. It was not provided by defendants in
13 discovery.
14 A. Oh, okay.
15 You know, a lot of the charts and the
16 slides look familiar. But I don't recall, you know,
17 this specific document. I do know at one point,
18 Mary Margaret and Jane did a training to an NGO, and
19 so this must be it.
20 Q. Would those individuals be able to
21 identify the purpose of this document?
22 A. I would think so.
23 Q. So you mentioned that a lot of the charts
24 look familiar. Could I ask you to turn to -- and I'm
25 sorry. These are not numbered.
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1 Q. I asked because previously you, you know,
2 asked to go back and clarify an answer.
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. Is there anything else that you would like
5 to go back and supplement?
6 A. I don't think so. Nothing that comes to
7 mind.
8 MS. IGUINA: Okay. Are there any
9 questions?
10 MR. SILVIS: No, we don't have questions.
11 MS. IGUINA: Thank you very much for your
12 time.
_13 (Whereupon, at 5:38p.m., signature having
14 been waived, the taking of the instant deposition
15 ceased.)
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - .
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ss:
3 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
4 I, ANGELA K. MCCULLOUGH, RPR, the officer before
5 whom the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby
6 certify that the foregoing transcript is a true and
7 correct record of the proceedings; that said
8 proceedings were taken by me stenographically to the
9 best of my ability and thereafter reduced to
10 typewriting under my supervision; and that I am
11 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any
12 parties to this case and have no interest, financial
13 or otherwise, in its outcome.
14
15
16
17 Notary Public in and for
18 The District of Columbia
19
20 My commission expires: 01/31/2020
21
22
23
24
25
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EXHIBIT J
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