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01/07/2015 06:27House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Jul 2004 (pt 33)
Page 1 of 3http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/vo040719/debtext/40719-33.htm
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You are here: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Hansard >
Commons Debates > Commons Debates by date > Commons Debates - previous sessions > Bound Volume
Hansard - Debate
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Ms Keeble: Will my hon. Friend spell out carefully what he expects social services to do? One reason why I asked for such children to be considered as
"at risk" is that social services would then be immediately obliged to help them. At the moment, it is very hard for children to get that help.
Mr. Browne: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. Given that we have discussed this issue, she knows that social services have a duty
to safeguard and to promote the welfare of such children following an assessment of their circumstances. Social services departments will undertake
needs assessments, and they will provide services in the light of the outcome of those assessments. Such services will be tailored to the individual needs
of the child, just as they should be for any child in need.
We recognise that there is a real danger that victims returning home will fall back into the hands of traffickers. That is why we will remove
unaccompanied children only if we are satisfied that the family has been traced, that adequate reception arrangements are in place and that there will be
adequate longer-term care for them. If they have been victims of sexual exploitation, their communities may refuse to welcome them back, and we need
to help victims reintegrate into their communities and to deal sensitively with some of the cultural assumptions that can prevent that.
Ms Keeble: Will my hon. Friend deal with the need for data sharing? Children move around frequently and sometimes social services will not help them
or will say that they cannot find them. It is a pressing issue to provide the safeguards that are needed.
Mr. Browne: If my hon. Friend will bear with me for a moment, I will come on to the issue of fast tracking and data sharing. At this point, I want to deal
with the meeting that I had last week because it represents what my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Wyre referred to as a pioneering
international approach. It also relates to the point made by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham about contact with social services in the
originating countries.
19 Jul 2004 : Column 131
In my view, the concept of adopting an international approach through professionalised social services is a very attractive proposition. It presents a
significant challenge to the Government to generate co-operation with other countries with a view to putting in place the level of co-operation necessary
to ensure that appropriate standards are applied across international boundaries. The proposition put to me last week was substantially the work of
Lawrence Chester, whom I know from other work that he has done with refugees. He has a significant reputation not only in respect of social work, but of
refugees. He was supported by the British Association of Social Workers, represented by Ian Johnston and John Metcalf, and by the Children's Legal
Centre represented by George Lane.
01/07/2015 06:27House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Jul 2004 (pt 33)
Page 2 of 3http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/vo040719/debtext/40719-33.htm
It was an exciting and interesting proposal that will require further discussion in government and across government here in the UK and with interested
non-governmental organisations. We will need to develop the approach in the UK before we can consider taking it further internationally, and it may be
some considerable time before the exciting proposal becomes a reality, but it is worthwhile work and I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for
Lancaster and Wyre and others for bringing it to me. I will take it as far forward as I can, which might provide a vehicle for taking forward some of the
points raised by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham.
May I say to my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, North that I am indeed aware of how important speed of decision making is to children? As
she rightly says, a comparatively short wait may not be a long time in an adult's life, but it may be an eternity in a child's life. I fully understand that.
Taking decisions about children with appropriate speed is part of the process of dealing with children sensitively and appropriately. That is what I expect
the immigration and nationality directorate to do.
My hon. Friend must accept, however, the requirement to balance the obvious need for a speedy decision in cases of applications made by children
against ensuring that any areas of concern about the child's welfare are fully explored with the relevant agencies before the decision is reached. Having
spent the best part of a quarter of a century of my professional life—before I became a professional politician—working in child law matters and child
protection, I am very much aware of the dangers of taking decisions about children far too quickly. Unfortunately, there are some outstanding examples
of that in the history of child protection in the UK. Not enough time has been taken fully to explore with the relevant agencies the appropriate issues on
child protection.
My hon. Friend can rest assured that I am conscious of the need for that balance and for the need for speed—appropriate speed—when dealing with
children. I ask her to accept my assurance that the Home Office and the immigration and nationality directorate are working to ensure that the desire for
speed does not operate against the best interests of the child.
19 Jul 2004 : Column 132
My expectation is that the immigration and nationality directorate will carry out that work to the standard of the duty of care towards children that arises
from our obligations under the UN convention on the rights of the child. Although the UK has a reservation in the convention enabling us to apply such
legislation as we deem necessary in the interests of immigration control, we have regard to the convention in the formulation of policy and practice
relating to children arriving or resident in the UK. The key obligations are to act in the child's best interests, to take all appropriate steps to protect the
child from all forms of abuse or neglect, and to provide special protection and assistance to children deprived of their family environment, for whatever
reason.
My hon. Friend asked me to reassure her specifically that social services will ensure that data are shared appropriately. In cases relating to children, I
have met agencies whose approach has seemed to be more about data protection than about child protection. In my view, when a balance must be
struck between the protection of the child and the protection of data, the obligation of an agency is to err on the side of the protection of the child. I
would expect that, insofar as I have responsibility for issues relating to child protection, those who are directly accountable to me will apply that rule at
all times. I am not responsible for other areas of Government policy, but I would be astonished if other Ministers took a different view. I hope that that
reassurance is sufficient for my hon. Friend.
Tim Loughton: I am greatly encouraged by the Minister's comments about data. He mentioned working on a joint international initiative, which is
essential. It is now more than four years since Victoria Climbié came to this country from the Ivory Coast and more than five years since we had a spate
of girls coming from Nigeria and Sierra Leone into west Sussex through Gatwick airport, who were subsequently adopted into the sex trade in northern
Italy. What has happened in the past two years to ensure that international social services are working to ensure that those children do not get on the
plane in the first place? If there is a problem with sending children back, are international social services working with the communities in those countries
to make it safe for them to go back? If there is any question of those children being used for illicit purposes in this country, their best home must be with
or close to their families and communities of origin. I would have hoped that a bit more had been done by now.
Mr. Browne: I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman's analysis of the challenges and priorities. I have set out the extent of my knowledge about
international co-operation. I do not have detailed knowledge about that other area of Government responsibility, but I will undertake to have his
questions answered appropriately and I will write to him. I do not know off the top of my head just how robust international social services are in the
areas that he mentions. He is entitled to a response to those questions, but it is not the Government's responsibility to construct social service support in
other parts of the world. It is our responsibility to ensure that those people who come to our shores receive an appropriate response and that the
necessary risk assessment is made. I hope
19 Jul 2004 : Column 133
that I have been able to reassure the House that significant progress has been made in the legislative structure and in the practical operation of that
protection, but challenges remain and there is still work to be done. That work will be carried on not only by me, in the Home Office, but by other
Ministers who share with me responsibility for children in the UK. I shall ensure that the hon. Gentleman receives a written response from me on those
issues, and I shall lodge the letter in the Library.
I have outlined briefly the Government's strategy to combat trafficking, but it must be accepted that we cannot do that work alone. We need to continue
to work across traditional organisational boundaries. We must work with our EU partners and beyond the EU. We
19 Jul 2004 : Column 134
must work with the voluntary sector and with communities both in this country and abroad to address some of the wider cultural issues behind
trafficking.
I hope that through innovative operations, such as Operation Paladin Child, and by bringing together professionals from different backgrounds and
organisations we can continue that work. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, North for giving me this opportunity to set out—
at some length, due to the extra time available—what the Government are doing in this field and I hope that she is reassured by my remarks.
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01/07/2015 06:27House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Jul 2004 (pt 33)
Page 3 of 3http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/vo040719/debtext/40719-33.htm
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House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Jul 2004 (pt 33)

  • 1. 01/07/2015 06:27House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Jul 2004 (pt 33) Page 1 of 3http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/vo040719/debtext/40719-33.htm Accessibility Email alerts RSS feeds Contact us Search Home Parliamentary business MPs, Lords & offices About Parliament Get involved Visiting Education House of Commons House of Lords What's on Bills & legislation Committees Publications & records Parliament TV News Topics You are here: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Hansard > Commons Debates > Commons Debates by date > Commons Debates - previous sessions > Bound Volume Hansard - Debate Previous Section Index Home Page Ms Keeble: Will my hon. Friend spell out carefully what he expects social services to do? One reason why I asked for such children to be considered as "at risk" is that social services would then be immediately obliged to help them. At the moment, it is very hard for children to get that help. Mr. Browne: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. Given that we have discussed this issue, she knows that social services have a duty to safeguard and to promote the welfare of such children following an assessment of their circumstances. Social services departments will undertake needs assessments, and they will provide services in the light of the outcome of those assessments. Such services will be tailored to the individual needs of the child, just as they should be for any child in need. We recognise that there is a real danger that victims returning home will fall back into the hands of traffickers. That is why we will remove unaccompanied children only if we are satisfied that the family has been traced, that adequate reception arrangements are in place and that there will be adequate longer-term care for them. If they have been victims of sexual exploitation, their communities may refuse to welcome them back, and we need to help victims reintegrate into their communities and to deal sensitively with some of the cultural assumptions that can prevent that. Ms Keeble: Will my hon. Friend deal with the need for data sharing? Children move around frequently and sometimes social services will not help them or will say that they cannot find them. It is a pressing issue to provide the safeguards that are needed. Mr. Browne: If my hon. Friend will bear with me for a moment, I will come on to the issue of fast tracking and data sharing. At this point, I want to deal with the meeting that I had last week because it represents what my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Wyre referred to as a pioneering international approach. It also relates to the point made by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham about contact with social services in the originating countries. 19 Jul 2004 : Column 131 In my view, the concept of adopting an international approach through professionalised social services is a very attractive proposition. It presents a significant challenge to the Government to generate co-operation with other countries with a view to putting in place the level of co-operation necessary to ensure that appropriate standards are applied across international boundaries. The proposition put to me last week was substantially the work of Lawrence Chester, whom I know from other work that he has done with refugees. He has a significant reputation not only in respect of social work, but of refugees. He was supported by the British Association of Social Workers, represented by Ian Johnston and John Metcalf, and by the Children's Legal Centre represented by George Lane.
  • 2. 01/07/2015 06:27House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Jul 2004 (pt 33) Page 2 of 3http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/vo040719/debtext/40719-33.htm It was an exciting and interesting proposal that will require further discussion in government and across government here in the UK and with interested non-governmental organisations. We will need to develop the approach in the UK before we can consider taking it further internationally, and it may be some considerable time before the exciting proposal becomes a reality, but it is worthwhile work and I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Wyre and others for bringing it to me. I will take it as far forward as I can, which might provide a vehicle for taking forward some of the points raised by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham. May I say to my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, North that I am indeed aware of how important speed of decision making is to children? As she rightly says, a comparatively short wait may not be a long time in an adult's life, but it may be an eternity in a child's life. I fully understand that. Taking decisions about children with appropriate speed is part of the process of dealing with children sensitively and appropriately. That is what I expect the immigration and nationality directorate to do. My hon. Friend must accept, however, the requirement to balance the obvious need for a speedy decision in cases of applications made by children against ensuring that any areas of concern about the child's welfare are fully explored with the relevant agencies before the decision is reached. Having spent the best part of a quarter of a century of my professional life—before I became a professional politician—working in child law matters and child protection, I am very much aware of the dangers of taking decisions about children far too quickly. Unfortunately, there are some outstanding examples of that in the history of child protection in the UK. Not enough time has been taken fully to explore with the relevant agencies the appropriate issues on child protection. My hon. Friend can rest assured that I am conscious of the need for that balance and for the need for speed—appropriate speed—when dealing with children. I ask her to accept my assurance that the Home Office and the immigration and nationality directorate are working to ensure that the desire for speed does not operate against the best interests of the child. 19 Jul 2004 : Column 132 My expectation is that the immigration and nationality directorate will carry out that work to the standard of the duty of care towards children that arises from our obligations under the UN convention on the rights of the child. Although the UK has a reservation in the convention enabling us to apply such legislation as we deem necessary in the interests of immigration control, we have regard to the convention in the formulation of policy and practice relating to children arriving or resident in the UK. The key obligations are to act in the child's best interests, to take all appropriate steps to protect the child from all forms of abuse or neglect, and to provide special protection and assistance to children deprived of their family environment, for whatever reason. My hon. Friend asked me to reassure her specifically that social services will ensure that data are shared appropriately. In cases relating to children, I have met agencies whose approach has seemed to be more about data protection than about child protection. In my view, when a balance must be struck between the protection of the child and the protection of data, the obligation of an agency is to err on the side of the protection of the child. I would expect that, insofar as I have responsibility for issues relating to child protection, those who are directly accountable to me will apply that rule at all times. I am not responsible for other areas of Government policy, but I would be astonished if other Ministers took a different view. I hope that that reassurance is sufficient for my hon. Friend. Tim Loughton: I am greatly encouraged by the Minister's comments about data. He mentioned working on a joint international initiative, which is essential. It is now more than four years since Victoria Climbié came to this country from the Ivory Coast and more than five years since we had a spate of girls coming from Nigeria and Sierra Leone into west Sussex through Gatwick airport, who were subsequently adopted into the sex trade in northern Italy. What has happened in the past two years to ensure that international social services are working to ensure that those children do not get on the plane in the first place? If there is a problem with sending children back, are international social services working with the communities in those countries to make it safe for them to go back? If there is any question of those children being used for illicit purposes in this country, their best home must be with or close to their families and communities of origin. I would have hoped that a bit more had been done by now. Mr. Browne: I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman's analysis of the challenges and priorities. I have set out the extent of my knowledge about international co-operation. I do not have detailed knowledge about that other area of Government responsibility, but I will undertake to have his questions answered appropriately and I will write to him. I do not know off the top of my head just how robust international social services are in the areas that he mentions. He is entitled to a response to those questions, but it is not the Government's responsibility to construct social service support in other parts of the world. It is our responsibility to ensure that those people who come to our shores receive an appropriate response and that the necessary risk assessment is made. I hope 19 Jul 2004 : Column 133 that I have been able to reassure the House that significant progress has been made in the legislative structure and in the practical operation of that protection, but challenges remain and there is still work to be done. That work will be carried on not only by me, in the Home Office, but by other Ministers who share with me responsibility for children in the UK. I shall ensure that the hon. Gentleman receives a written response from me on those issues, and I shall lodge the letter in the Library. I have outlined briefly the Government's strategy to combat trafficking, but it must be accepted that we cannot do that work alone. We need to continue to work across traditional organisational boundaries. We must work with our EU partners and beyond the EU. We 19 Jul 2004 : Column 134 must work with the voluntary sector and with communities both in this country and abroad to address some of the wider cultural issues behind trafficking. I hope that through innovative operations, such as Operation Paladin Child, and by bringing together professionals from different backgrounds and organisations we can continue that work. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, North for giving me this opportunity to set out— at some length, due to the extra time available—what the Government are doing in this field and I hope that she is reassured by my remarks. Next Section Index Home Page A-Z index Glossary Contact us Freedom of Information
  • 3. 01/07/2015 06:27House of Commons Hansard Debates for 19 Jul 2004 (pt 33) Page 3 of 3http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/vo040719/debtext/40719-33.htm Jobs Using this website Copyright