Kari Kakkonen, profile picture
Uploaded byKari Kakkonen
PDF, PPTX48 views

Insights about children testing

Kari Kakkonen presents the 'Dragons Out!' book project, aimed at introducing software testing concepts to children ages 10-99 through storytelling and fantasy, with resources translated into multiple languages. The project addresses the lack of software testing education, emphasizing its importance in software development and engaging children in coding and testing through imaginative narratives. A survey of educators indicates a positive reception and applicability of this method across various teaching subjects.

Embed presentation

Download as PDF, PPTX
How children who've read the Dragons Out book about software testing learn Kari Kakkonen, Dragons Out Oy & Knowit Solutions Oy At DSTB Conference 2023 Copenhagen Oct 30, 2023 © Dragons Out Oy 1
ROLES • Knowit Solutions Oy, Director of Training and Competences, Lead Consultant, Trainer and Coach • Children’s and testing author at Dragons Out Oy • TMMi, Board of Directors • Treasurer of Finnish Software Testing Board (FiSTB) ACHIEVEMENTS • Tester of the Year in Finland 2021 • EuroSTAR Testing Excellence Award 2021 • Exemplary DevOps Instructor Award 2023 by DASA • ISTQB Executive Committee 2015-2021 • Influencing testing since 1996 • Ranked in 100 most influential IT persons in Finland (Tivi magazine) • Great number of presentations in Finnish and international conferences • TestausOSY/FAST founding member. • Co-author of Agile Testing Foundations book • Regular blogger in Tivi-magazine Kari Kakkonen, Lead Testing Consultant SERVICES • ISTQB Advanced, Foundation, Agile Testing, AI Testing • Knowit Quality Professional • DASA DevOps • Quality & Test process and organization development, Metrics, TMMi and other assessments • Agile testing, Scrum, Kanban, Lean • Leadership • Test automation, Mobile, Cloud, DevOps, AI • Quality, cost, benefits EDUCATION • ISTQB Expert Level Test Management & Advanced Full & Agile Tester certified • DASA DevOps, Scrum Master and SAFe certified • TMMi Professional, Assessor, Process Improver certified • SPICE provisionary assessor certified • M.Sc.(Eng), Helsinki University of Technology (present Aalto University), Otaniemi, Espoo • Marketing studies, University of Wisconsin-Madison, the USA. BUSINESS DOMAINS Wide spread of business domain knowledge: Embedded, industry, public, training, telecommunications, commerce, Insurance, banking, pension. 30.10.2023 2 twitter.com/kkakkonen dragonsout.com act2lead.net MORE INFORMATION linkedin.com/in/karikakkonen/ © Copyright Knowit Trainings 2023
A Nordic powerhouse for digital solutions 4 500+ Experts 6 countries SE, NO, FI, DK, DE, PL 613 MEUR Combined turnover 2022 4 business areas Solutions, Experience, Connectivity and Insight Nordic ESG-ambassador Clear vision to accelerate the UN sustainability agenda
The book project ”Dragons Out!” • Mission • “Software testing brought to children” • Book • Author Kari Kakkonen • Illustrator Adrienn Széll • Text and illustration rights Dragons Out Oy • In Finnish, English, Polish, French and growing • For ages of 10-99 • Free “Dragon lesson in software testing” presentation under Creative Commons –license • Translated to 20 languages! • More info: www.dragonsout.com • Also other books coming out 4
ISTQB GLOBAL PRESENCE • Number of exams administered: over 1,2 million • Number of certifications issued: 845,000 • In 130 countries
TMMi for test improvement in all kinds of testing, including agile and DevOps
Agenda • Book project recap • Why teach software testing to children • Fantasy as a way to teach software testing • Experience of learning from children • What can we learn from how children learn into how adults learn • Q&A © Dragons Out Oy 7
The book project recap 8 © Dragons Out Oy
I want to tell a story “Every person has a story. Every cause needs a storyteller. Learn to be a storyteller because unless you are a candidate for a reality show, no one else is going to tell your story for you. So tell us a story. Tell us a good story. And let that good story be one part of a symphony of stories that makes this world a better place.” James Whittaker © Dragons Out Oy 9 https://medium.com/@docjamesw/the-storytelling-manifesto-f17548a358b3
Why testing for children? • Coding has started to interest children and youth. • Many parties in our societies promote coding e.g. via coding schools • There is not enough software testing education • Testing is even over half of all software development work • There is also a lack of testers, not only a lack of coders • Testing is the new basic skill • Good quality is needed in software development in Finland and around the world • We need to make software testing familiar already to children • Testing schools • Testing books • My own solution, on top of all the coding schools, is to offer children a book about software testing © Dragons Out Oy 10
Book project highlights © Dragons Out Oy 2014 2018 2019 2020 2021 Linda Liukas publishes Hello Ruby We need also a testing book for children! To the sabbatical writing time! Crowdfunding campaign School donation campaign Now there’s time! Illustration! Recipients: Schools Donations: IT-companies! Great feedback! Fantastic visuals! Great feedback! Published 1.12.2020 Authoring: Finnish Dragons Out! -book Illustration and Sample design Authoring: English Dragons Out! book . . . Publishing: English Dragons Out! -book Published 30.7.2021 Publishing: Finnish Dragons Out! -book 11
About the book ”Dragons Out!” • Author Kari Kakkonen • Illustrator Adrienn Széll • Text and illustration rights Dragons Out Oy • A version of this presentation is available for teachers (or anyone) under Creative Commons –license at the book web site • Translated to many languages! • More info: www.dragonsout.com © Dragons Out Oy 12
Fantasy as a way to learn software testing 13 © Dragons Out Oy
Power of the story Story • Swanlake turned her horse around and rode fast back to the palisade. She called to the knights and building master Aidan that the dragon was coming. All the sharpened trunks needed to be moved urgently to the hole in the palisade. Spears and swords, whoever had them, should be fetched immediately. All available water should be poured into buckets. Then she went to find Yellowbeard at the castle. Explanation • In the story the dragon arrives to a village in the middle of the repairs of the palisade. Similarly, most of the defects are found in software during software development, before the software is released. Then the people who look for defects (testers) and fix defects (coders), are always available. Usually a tester finds the defect, so doesn’t wait for a user to find the defect later. In this story Swanlake was a tester who found and identified the defect, that is the dragon. As a tester she couldn’t this time fix the defect but needed coders (developers) to help. © Dragons Out Oy 14
Annoying dragon • Color: Red • Size: Medium • How difficult to find?: Difficult • How difficult to get rid of?: Easy • Flies?: No • Wings: Small • Breaths fire?: Yes • Favorite thing: Eating lambs © Dragons Out Oy 15
Annoying dragon • Defect name: Memory leak • Severity: Medium • Defect symptoms: The computer gets slower, until it can’t function at all, and it shuts down • Cause of the defect: Memory is reserved for use of the software, but it is not freed after usage • Root causes: Developer is not careful in freeing the memory. May not know how, may not remember. • Testing: You measure used memory as you use the software. If the amount of used memory increases all the time, it is probably a memory leak. • Fix: You run the software one line of code at a time, until you find the spot that should be fixed. Memory is released with a proper piece of code. © Dragons Out Oy 16
Robbing dragons © Dragons Out Oy 17 • Color: Glittering green, or gray • Size: Small to large • How difficult to find?: Easy to difficult • How difficult to get rid of?: Easy to difficult • Flies?: Some fly, some don’t • Wings: Small to large • Breaths fire?: Yes • Favorite thing: Stealing food and treasure
Robbing dragons • Defect name: Functionality defects • Severity: Low-Medium-High • Defect symptoms: The software doesn’t do what it should do. Calculation gives wrong result. User sees information in the wrong place. • Cause of the defect: The functionality has been coded wrong. • Root causes: Developer has not understood, what the user has meant. Or the defect exists due to carelessness, or hurry. • Testing: You use the software normally, based on tester experience or requirement definitions. • Fix: Code is changed to work correctly. © Dragons Out Oy 18
Mean dragon • Color: Black • Size: Small • How difficult to find?: Difficult • How difficult to get rid of?: Medium • Flies?: Yes • Wings: Medium • Breaths fire?: A lot • Favorite thing: Stealing food and treasure without being detected © Dragons Out Oy 19
Mean dragon • Defect name: Security defect • Severity: High • Defect symptoms: Information from the software is found outside the system (e.g. bank card information). It could also be just software functioning wrong. • Cause of the defect: A criminal has used security defect to break into the system, and then has stolen or destroyed something. • Root causes: Developer has not followed the latest secure coding principles. Maybe doesn’t know these. • Testing: You look for known vulnerabilities in the software by using it, or via a security testing software. You can also review code. Checklist of known defects helps. • Fix: A known vulnerability has also a known fix. It is fixed in the code or system settings. © Dragons Out Oy 20
Underground dragon • Color: Brown • Size: Large • How difficult to find?: Easy • How difficult to get rid of?: Medium • Flies?: No • Wings: Small • Breaths fire?: A lot • Favorite thing: Finding easy food and eating © Dragons Out Oy 21
Underground dragon • Defect name: Hardware defect • Severity: High • Defect symptoms: Some part of or all of the computer doesn’t work. • Cause of the defect: A part of hardware has broken over time. • Root causes: A part of hardware may be of low quality, so it doesn’t last as long as it should. Possibly the part doesn’t work well with other parts, so it breaks. • Testing: You use the system normally. You observe the hardware. Test environment uses similar hardware than the users will have. • Fix: You change a broken part to a new one or change to a part that better fits other parts. © Dragons Out Oy 22
Nice dragon • Color: Glittering green • Size: Medium • How difficult to find?: Easy • How difficult to get rid of?: Easy • Flies?: Yes • Wings: Medium • Breaths fire?: Yes • Favorite thing: Eating animals and helping people © Dragons Out Oy 23
Nice dragon • Defect name: Defect seeding, mutation testing - a defect created on purpose • Severity: Low • Defect symptoms: It looks like the functionality works wrong, e.g. wrong result from a calculation. So, the defect looks like a functionality defect. • Cause of the defect: Tester or coder has created the defect into the code on purpose. • Root causes: The idea is that when all seeded defects have been found, all defects have been found. • Testing: You use the system normally and try to find all seeded defects. You will also find real defects. When the last seeded defect is found, you can stop testing. • Fix: Remember to fix the code also for the seeded defects, in the same way as for real functionality defects. © Dragons Out Oy 24
Knights © Dragons Out Oy 25 • Developers • Programmers, coders • Testers • Work together, usually in the same development team (Agile) • Build software • Test software • Find and fix defects
Children, villagers © Dragons Out Oy 26 • Users • Help build software • Test new software • Test old software • Ask for help from technical support and developers, when needed
Hunters © Dragons Out Oy 27 • Technical support • Maintain the software / system • Test • Fix defects • Help users • Ask for help from developers when needed • Sometimes in the development team (DevOps team)
Lords and Ladies © Dragons Out Oy 28 • Order software and systems • Product owners • Management • Define what the software should do • Listen to developers
Sages © Dragons Out Oy 29 • Experts in • Usability • Security • Performance • Help product owners • Help development teams
Feedback survey results from book readers 30 © Dragons Out Oy
About collecting feedback • I've run a survey to teachers in Finland about what kind of learning approach has worked best for students of different ages. • The biggest interest has been in age groups 10-15. • The feedback is great. • Survey results combined with verbal feedback from teachers • On a scale from 1-5 the book/testing rates 4,22 • Numbers are small and thus should be treated as tentative • However, the responses reveal interesting views
Software Testing coupled with fantasy fits to many teaching subjects • Multiple teaching subjects are covered • Phenomena learning • Coding is most (not surprisingly) best match with software testing N=8 from teachers who used donated books
Software Testing coupled with fantasy fits to many teaching subjects • Multiple teaching subjects are covered • Phenomena learning • Coding is most (not surprisingly) best match with software testing N=31 from teachers at trade fair
What interests children about the topic? • Fantasy works best in creating attraction • Learning of software testing comes as a side effect • A book is preferred over powerpoint lesson (ppt) N=8 from teachers who used donated books
What interests children about the topic? • Fantasy works best in creating attraction • Learning of software testing comes as a side effect • A book is preferred over powerpoint lesson (ppt) N=31 from teachers at trade fair
What are best situations to teach with a software testing book? • Teacher assisted learning (classes) gets highest rating even though books can of course be read individually • Organized learning is best! N=8 from teachers who used donated books
What are best situations to teach with a software testing book? • Teacher assisted learning (classes) gets highest rating even though books can of course be read individually • Organized learning is best! N=31 from teachers at trade fair
Interview insights from child readers: What is testing? • Testing is finding bugs • Testing is fight with dragons • Testing going through software with different angles • Testing is using software • Testing is fun
Interview insights from child readers: How do you test? • I try software with different values • I try different things with software • I look for something interesting • I look for something strange • I use a checklist • I use software and observe
Interview insights from child readers: Why do you need testing? • So that the software wouldn’t have bugs • So that software would work correctly • So that I could play a game faster • So that we have good software
Interview insights from child readers: How do you learn testing? • By reading a book • By testing • By using software, looking out for strange things • By coding and trying out my own code • By attending a lecture • By drawing dragons
Interview insights from child readers: What do you do with testing in future? • “I want to be a software tester when I grow up”, a 12-year old boy • “I want to be a coder, and need to test, too”, an 11-year old girl • Coding and testing • Testing professional • Not for me
Exploratory Testing checklist inspired by children testing Easy ● Fun? ● Strange? ● I can do this, too! ● Slows me down? ● Could be easier? ● Misunderstanding? ● Ugly? ● Cheating? ● As expected? Advanced ● Navigate all paths ● Cancel / Undo ● Check instructions ● Can we both do it? ● Coordinate parallel test ● Special characters ● Profiles and data 43
Combining learning approaches • It has been fascinating to see how combining different learning approaches works in getting enthusiastic learners into software testing. • The usual combination has been • drawing exercises • listening or reading testing content • understanding through the power of analogies between fantasy and software testing • exploratory testing.
Interesting ways of learning for children 45 © Dragons Out Oy
How children learn? • Stories, examples • Identifying with others, Idols • Imitating • Rhymes, songs • Playing, games • Exploring, doing, trial and error • Simplicity, clarity • Repeating • Remembering • Boundaries (right and wrong) © Dragons Out Oy 46
Many learning strategies is a good thing • “Children and teenagers learn by observing, listening, exploring, experimenting and asking questions” (1) • “The broader the range of strategies that children can use appropriately, the more successful they can be in problem solving, in reading, in text comprehension and in memorizing. “ (2) © Dragons Out Oy 47 1 https://raisingchildren.net.au/school-age/school-learning/learning-ideas/learning-school-years 2 http://www.ibe.unesco.org/sites/default/files/resources/edu-practices_07_eng.pdf
Storytelling works for all learning styles • Visual learners like the mental pictures they get from storytelling • Auditory learners connect with the words and the storyteller’s voice. • Kinesthetic learners can hook into the emotional connections and feelings from the story. • Storytelling also helps with learning because stories are easy to remember © Dragons Out Oy https://www.harvardbusiness.org/what-makes-storytelling-so-effective-for-learning
Focus on 10-12 year olds or “Tweens” • “Around the age of 11 or 12, children learn to think about abstract concepts.” • “Tweens display strong metacognition skills, i.e. ability to think about thinking. Children display this ability through an awareness of knowledge, an awareness of thinking, and an awareness of thinking strategies.” • Software testing is essentially about thinking what we already know and expanding that knowledge by exploring. © Dragons Out Oy 49 https://www.scholastic.com/parents/family-life/creativity-and-critical- thinking/development-milestones/cognitive-development-11-13-year-olds.html
6 ways for children to learn testing - takeaways • Start with a Fantasy example, explain into ICT-world • Be extremely clear and concise • 5-minutes of theory, 20-minutes of exercise structure • Use all the senses (listen, see, talk, draw dragons) • Use common sharing of exercise results (e.g. Padlet) • Try out your test ideas immediately to an app of your choice
Interesting ways of learning for adults 51 © Dragons Out Oy
6 ways for adults to learn testing - takeaways • Use examples and analogues from real-life • Be extremely clear and concise • Hands-on, mostly exercises in the learning • Use all the senses (listen, see, talk, draw mindmaps) • Use common workspace for real-time status of testing (e.g. Mural, Miro) • Get your hands dirty and test some (buggy) software immediately & explain how you test it • These are extrapolated from the findings how children learn best.
Analogues, parallells • Talk about day-to-day life to drive your point • Cars • Hobbies • Sports • Pets • Family Pic: https://medium.com/serious-scrum/scrum-s-connection-to-rugby-597405fed5ec
Clear, concise communication • Express what you mean clearly • Start from big picture • Use concepts that sum it all up, e.g. • Keywords • Mission statements • Vision statements • Values Quote: Farhshad Asl Pic: https://quotefancy.com/quote/1956575/Farshad-Asl-Sharing- a-clear-and-concise-vision-spawns-a-sense-of-purpose-and-direction-It
Hands-on, exercises • Competencies can be achieved by performing hands-on exercises • Exercises e.g. on • Setting up and using test environments. • Testing applications on virtual and physical devices. • Using tools on desktops and/or mobile devices to test or assist in testing related tasks such as installation, querying, logging, monitoring, taking screenshots etc. • Basically, hands-on learning is learning by doing Source: https://www.istqb.org/downloads/send/61-mobile- application-testing/251-mobile-application-testing-specialist-syllabus.html Pic and source: http://parklandplayers.com/hands-on-learning- what-does-it-mean-and-why-is-it-important/
Use all the senses • Listen to the teacher • With focus! • See the slides • Before, during, after session • Talk and reflect • What is in it for me? • What is in it for us? • Use your hands • Keep notes • Draw pics • Draw mindmaps Pic and source: https://www.mindmup.com/
Real-time status of testing • Use Group Memory • Show what is discussed in the class • Record working group tasks • Keep test plans visible • Track test progress in testing exercise • Any sharing tool works • Mural, Miro etc. • Mindmaps • Whiteboard tools Pic: https://www.mural.ly/
Start testing immediately • Pick a testing approach or technique • Apply immediately • Use software from • The students • Your own company • Startup companies • Record test progress • Record defects • Discuss how you think when you test Pic: https://get.timespace.co/focus/ Source: https://we.knowit.fi/knowit-suomi/win-win-scenario-with-startups
Thank you! Order the book: https://www.austinmacauley.com/book/dragons-out Follow and share the book project: • https://www.dragonsout.com • https://www.facebook.com/DragonsOutOy • https://www.instagram.com/dragonsoutbook/ • https://twitter.com/DragonsOutOy • https://www.linkedin.com/company/dragons-out/ Ask questions: kari.kakkonen@dragonsout.com © Dragons Out Oy 59

More Related Content

PDF
Insights from children about testing; how children who've read the Dragons Ou...
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Insights about children testing at TestIstanbul
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How Children Learn Testing at Testit
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Insights from children about testing at NTD2022
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Insights from children about testing; how children who've read the Dragons O...
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Why children should learn to test why anyone should test?
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How Children Learn Testing Kari Kakkonen Odin conference.pdf
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Insights from children about testing; how children who've read the Dragons O...
byKari Kakkonen
 
Insights from children about testing; how children who've read the Dragons Ou...
byKari Kakkonen
 
Insights about children testing at TestIstanbul
byKari Kakkonen
 
How Children Learn Testing at Testit
byKari Kakkonen
 
Insights from children about testing at NTD2022
byKari Kakkonen
 
Insights from children about testing; how children who've read the Dragons O...
byKari Kakkonen
 
Why children should learn to test why anyone should test?
byKari Kakkonen
 
How Children Learn Testing Kari Kakkonen Odin conference.pdf
byKari Kakkonen
 
Insights from children about testing; how children who've read the Dragons O...
byKari Kakkonen
 

Similar to Insights about children testing

PDF
How children learn testing with dragons at SEETEST 2021
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How Children Learn Testing with Dragons - KDS2021
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Dragons Out Ohjelmistotestauksen oppia fantasian keinoilla (ITK-konferenssi)
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Knights of Quality: Immersive talk about software testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Kari kakkonen Testing for children at Testing Assembly 2019
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Encouraging children into software testing A4Q World Congress
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Encouraging Children into Testing at JSTQB Tokyo
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How children learn software testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Children encouraged into testing - RTC online 2020
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Children encouraged into testing - HUSTEF 2020
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Encouraging Children into Testing at EuroSTAR2020
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Testing tools and AI - ideas what to try with some tool examples
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How AI supports software testing at Testing United 2024
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How AI supports software testing at Kokkola
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How AI supports software testing Kari Kakkonen at Upload
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
AI improves software testing to be more fault tolerant, focused and efficient
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
AI improves software testing through test automation, test creation and test ...
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Master tester AI toolbox - Kari Kakkonen at Testaus ja AI 2025 Professio
byKari Kakkonen
 
PPTX
Bab 1
byfadillah alazmi
 
PDF
Career Choice for Graduates
byCleanSoft Academy
 
How children learn testing with dragons at SEETEST 2021
byKari Kakkonen
 
How Children Learn Testing with Dragons - KDS2021
byKari Kakkonen
 
Dragons Out Ohjelmistotestauksen oppia fantasian keinoilla (ITK-konferenssi)
byKari Kakkonen
 
Knights of Quality: Immersive talk about software testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
Kari kakkonen Testing for children at Testing Assembly 2019
byKari Kakkonen
 
Encouraging children into software testing A4Q World Congress
byKari Kakkonen
 
Encouraging Children into Testing at JSTQB Tokyo
byKari Kakkonen
 
How children learn software testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
Children encouraged into testing - RTC online 2020
byKari Kakkonen
 
Children encouraged into testing - HUSTEF 2020
byKari Kakkonen
 
Encouraging Children into Testing at EuroSTAR2020
byKari Kakkonen
 
Testing tools and AI - ideas what to try with some tool examples
byKari Kakkonen
 
How AI supports software testing at Testing United 2024
byKari Kakkonen
 
How AI supports software testing at Kokkola
byKari Kakkonen
 
How AI supports software testing Kari Kakkonen at Upload
byKari Kakkonen
 
AI improves software testing to be more fault tolerant, focused and efficient
byKari Kakkonen
 
AI improves software testing through test automation, test creation and test ...
byKari Kakkonen
 
Master tester AI toolbox - Kari Kakkonen at Testaus ja AI 2025 Professio
byKari Kakkonen
 
Bab 1
byfadillah alazmi
 
Career Choice for Graduates
byCleanSoft Academy
 

More from Kari Kakkonen

PDF
GenAI infuses_testing at ISTQB Finnish Testing Meetup
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Gold Nugget ACT2LEAD Kari Kakkonen at Quality Beacon
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Tieturi Gofore ISTQB webinar by Kari Kakkonen
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Taking Action To Lead Software Testing at EuroSTAR
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Taking action to lead software testing at WeTest Athens 2025
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How AI supports testing Kari Kakkonen TestFormation 2025
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Test automation at Tieturi webinar by Kari Kakkonen
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Taking action to lead software testing at Testing Assembly 2024
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Taking action to lead software testing at SLASSCOM Quality Summit
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Taking action to lead software testing at SEETEST2024
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Climate Impact of Software Testing Testit
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Climate Impact of Software Testing at Nordic Testing Days
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
DevOps and Testing slides at DASA Connect
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Kari Kakkonen Climate Impact of Software Testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Climate Impact of Software Testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Climate Impact of Software Testing.pdf
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Climate Impact of Software Testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Becoming MultiTalented Tester
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
Becoming a Multitalented Tester - at KDS
byKari Kakkonen
 
PDF
How to test an AI application
byKari Kakkonen
 
GenAI infuses_testing at ISTQB Finnish Testing Meetup
byKari Kakkonen
 
Gold Nugget ACT2LEAD Kari Kakkonen at Quality Beacon
byKari Kakkonen
 
Tieturi Gofore ISTQB webinar by Kari Kakkonen
byKari Kakkonen
 
Taking Action To Lead Software Testing at EuroSTAR
byKari Kakkonen
 
Taking action to lead software testing at WeTest Athens 2025
byKari Kakkonen
 
How AI supports testing Kari Kakkonen TestFormation 2025
byKari Kakkonen
 
Test automation at Tieturi webinar by Kari Kakkonen
byKari Kakkonen
 
Taking action to lead software testing at Testing Assembly 2024
byKari Kakkonen
 
Taking action to lead software testing at SLASSCOM Quality Summit
byKari Kakkonen
 
Taking action to lead software testing at SEETEST2024
byKari Kakkonen
 
Climate Impact of Software Testing Testit
byKari Kakkonen
 
Climate Impact of Software Testing at Nordic Testing Days
byKari Kakkonen
 
DevOps and Testing slides at DASA Connect
byKari Kakkonen
 
Kari Kakkonen Climate Impact of Software Testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
Climate Impact of Software Testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
Climate Impact of Software Testing.pdf
byKari Kakkonen
 
Climate Impact of Software Testing
byKari Kakkonen
 
Becoming MultiTalented Tester
byKari Kakkonen
 
Becoming a Multitalented Tester - at KDS
byKari Kakkonen
 
How to test an AI application
byKari Kakkonen
 

Recently uploaded

PDF
Build Next-Gen Spatial & Sensor Workflows: Secure, Scalable Processing in Sno...
bySafe Software
 
PDF
Transcript: EU regulations for the North American book supply chain - Tech Fo...
byBookNet Canada
 
PDF
Startup Formation Collapses While Acquisition Activity Hits New High!
byMemoori
 
PPTX
The Lex Wire Precedent: A Technical Standard for Machine-Mediated Authority ...
byJeff Howell
 
PDF
7 Essential Types of Penetration Testing Services Every Business Should Under...
bypandeydevika621
 
PPTX
NTG - Data Center Management System Software
byMustafa Kuğu
 
PDF
2026_01_28 - OpenMetadata Community Meeting.pdf
byOpenMetadata
 
PDF
Taxonomy Alignment for SDG Tagging - ASHA Case Study
byEnterprise Knowledge
 
PDF
Chapter 4 Network Security in computer security
byGetnet Tigabie Askale -(GM)
 
PDF
OpenCharacter AI Reviews: Features, Plans, and Best Alternative
byOpenCharacter AI
 
PDF
Dev Dives: Build and deploy agentic automations - the unified way
byUiPathCommunity
 
PPTX
Software Engineering in the Age of AI Agents
byHusseinMalikMammadli
 
PDF
ICT500 - CRITICAL AND CREATIVE THINKING FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS:...
by2024432452
 
PPTX
Introduction to Artificial Intelligence (AI).pptx
byammar414783
 
PDF
Post-Hackathon-Learnings-Maximizing-Impact-Beyond-the-Event.pdf
byishantyadav1111
 
PPTX
Cyber security chapter 1 for learning and educating to the students who want ...
byGulMohammadi
 
PDF
"When every team does things "right", but together it turns into chaos", Yozh...
byFwdays
 
PDF
Supercharge Your Copilot-Driven Collaboration with Microsoft 365 Agents SDK
byAntti Koskela
 
PDF
Getting Started with Apache Spark: Big Data Made Simple [Free Meetup]
byHaim Michael
 
PPTX
Introduction to Industrial-Arts Grade 8 ppt Lesson 1
byFSBTLEDNathanVince
 
Build Next-Gen Spatial & Sensor Workflows: Secure, Scalable Processing in Sno...
bySafe Software
 
Transcript: EU regulations for the North American book supply chain - Tech Fo...
byBookNet Canada
 
Startup Formation Collapses While Acquisition Activity Hits New High!
byMemoori
 
The Lex Wire Precedent: A Technical Standard for Machine-Mediated Authority ...
byJeff Howell
 
7 Essential Types of Penetration Testing Services Every Business Should Under...
bypandeydevika621
 
NTG - Data Center Management System Software
byMustafa Kuğu
 
2026_01_28 - OpenMetadata Community Meeting.pdf
byOpenMetadata
 
Taxonomy Alignment for SDG Tagging - ASHA Case Study
byEnterprise Knowledge
 
Chapter 4 Network Security in computer security
byGetnet Tigabie Askale -(GM)
 
OpenCharacter AI Reviews: Features, Plans, and Best Alternative
byOpenCharacter AI
 
Dev Dives: Build and deploy agentic automations - the unified way
byUiPathCommunity
 
Software Engineering in the Age of AI Agents
byHusseinMalikMammadli
 
ICT500 - CRITICAL AND CREATIVE THINKING FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS:...
by2024432452
 
Introduction to Artificial Intelligence (AI).pptx
byammar414783
 
Post-Hackathon-Learnings-Maximizing-Impact-Beyond-the-Event.pdf
byishantyadav1111
 
Cyber security chapter 1 for learning and educating to the students who want ...
byGulMohammadi
 
"When every team does things "right", but together it turns into chaos", Yozh...
byFwdays
 
Supercharge Your Copilot-Driven Collaboration with Microsoft 365 Agents SDK
byAntti Koskela
 
Getting Started with Apache Spark: Big Data Made Simple [Free Meetup]
byHaim Michael
 
Introduction to Industrial-Arts Grade 8 ppt Lesson 1
byFSBTLEDNathanVince
 

Insights about children testing

  • 1.
    How children who'veread the Dragons Out book about software testing learn Kari Kakkonen, Dragons Out Oy & Knowit Solutions Oy At DSTB Conference 2023 Copenhagen Oct 30, 2023 © Dragons Out Oy 1
  • 2.
    ROLES • Knowit SolutionsOy, Director of Training and Competences, Lead Consultant, Trainer and Coach • Children’s and testing author at Dragons Out Oy • TMMi, Board of Directors • Treasurer of Finnish Software Testing Board (FiSTB) ACHIEVEMENTS • Tester of the Year in Finland 2021 • EuroSTAR Testing Excellence Award 2021 • Exemplary DevOps Instructor Award 2023 by DASA • ISTQB Executive Committee 2015-2021 • Influencing testing since 1996 • Ranked in 100 most influential IT persons in Finland (Tivi magazine) • Great number of presentations in Finnish and international conferences • TestausOSY/FAST founding member. • Co-author of Agile Testing Foundations book • Regular blogger in Tivi-magazine Kari Kakkonen, Lead Testing Consultant SERVICES • ISTQB Advanced, Foundation, Agile Testing, AI Testing • Knowit Quality Professional • DASA DevOps • Quality & Test process and organization development, Metrics, TMMi and other assessments • Agile testing, Scrum, Kanban, Lean • Leadership • Test automation, Mobile, Cloud, DevOps, AI • Quality, cost, benefits EDUCATION • ISTQB Expert Level Test Management & Advanced Full & Agile Tester certified • DASA DevOps, Scrum Master and SAFe certified • TMMi Professional, Assessor, Process Improver certified • SPICE provisionary assessor certified • M.Sc.(Eng), Helsinki University of Technology (present Aalto University), Otaniemi, Espoo • Marketing studies, University of Wisconsin-Madison, the USA. BUSINESS DOMAINS Wide spread of business domain knowledge: Embedded, industry, public, training, telecommunications, commerce, Insurance, banking, pension. 30.10.2023 2 twitter.com/kkakkonen dragonsout.com act2lead.net MORE INFORMATION linkedin.com/in/karikakkonen/ © Copyright Knowit Trainings 2023
  • 3.
    A Nordic powerhouse fordigital solutions 4 500+ Experts 6 countries SE, NO, FI, DK, DE, PL 613 MEUR Combined turnover 2022 4 business areas Solutions, Experience, Connectivity and Insight Nordic ESG-ambassador Clear vision to accelerate the UN sustainability agenda
  • 4.
    The book project”Dragons Out!” • Mission • “Software testing brought to children” • Book • Author Kari Kakkonen • Illustrator Adrienn Széll • Text and illustration rights Dragons Out Oy • In Finnish, English, Polish, French and growing • For ages of 10-99 • Free “Dragon lesson in software testing” presentation under Creative Commons –license • Translated to 20 languages! • More info: www.dragonsout.com • Also other books coming out 4
  • 5.
    ISTQB GLOBAL PRESENCE •Number of exams administered: over 1,2 million • Number of certifications issued: 845,000 • In 130 countries
  • 6.
    TMMi for testimprovement in all kinds of testing, including agile and DevOps
  • 7.
    Agenda • Book projectrecap • Why teach software testing to children • Fantasy as a way to teach software testing • Experience of learning from children • What can we learn from how children learn into how adults learn • Q&A © Dragons Out Oy 7
  • 8.
    The book projectrecap 8 © Dragons Out Oy
  • 9.
    I want totell a story “Every person has a story. Every cause needs a storyteller. Learn to be a storyteller because unless you are a candidate for a reality show, no one else is going to tell your story for you. So tell us a story. Tell us a good story. And let that good story be one part of a symphony of stories that makes this world a better place.” James Whittaker © Dragons Out Oy 9 https://medium.com/@docjamesw/the-storytelling-manifesto-f17548a358b3
  • 10.
    Why testing forchildren? • Coding has started to interest children and youth. • Many parties in our societies promote coding e.g. via coding schools • There is not enough software testing education • Testing is even over half of all software development work • There is also a lack of testers, not only a lack of coders • Testing is the new basic skill • Good quality is needed in software development in Finland and around the world • We need to make software testing familiar already to children • Testing schools • Testing books • My own solution, on top of all the coding schools, is to offer children a book about software testing © Dragons Out Oy 10
  • 11.
    Book project highlights ©Dragons Out Oy 2014 2018 2019 2020 2021 Linda Liukas publishes Hello Ruby We need also a testing book for children! To the sabbatical writing time! Crowdfunding campaign School donation campaign Now there’s time! Illustration! Recipients: Schools Donations: IT-companies! Great feedback! Fantastic visuals! Great feedback! Published 1.12.2020 Authoring: Finnish Dragons Out! -book Illustration and Sample design Authoring: English Dragons Out! book . . . Publishing: English Dragons Out! -book Published 30.7.2021 Publishing: Finnish Dragons Out! -book 11
  • 12.
    About the book”Dragons Out!” • Author Kari Kakkonen • Illustrator Adrienn Széll • Text and illustration rights Dragons Out Oy • A version of this presentation is available for teachers (or anyone) under Creative Commons –license at the book web site • Translated to many languages! • More info: www.dragonsout.com © Dragons Out Oy 12
  • 13.
    Fantasy as away to learn software testing 13 © Dragons Out Oy
  • 14.
    Power of thestory Story • Swanlake turned her horse around and rode fast back to the palisade. She called to the knights and building master Aidan that the dragon was coming. All the sharpened trunks needed to be moved urgently to the hole in the palisade. Spears and swords, whoever had them, should be fetched immediately. All available water should be poured into buckets. Then she went to find Yellowbeard at the castle. Explanation • In the story the dragon arrives to a village in the middle of the repairs of the palisade. Similarly, most of the defects are found in software during software development, before the software is released. Then the people who look for defects (testers) and fix defects (coders), are always available. Usually a tester finds the defect, so doesn’t wait for a user to find the defect later. In this story Swanlake was a tester who found and identified the defect, that is the dragon. As a tester she couldn’t this time fix the defect but needed coders (developers) to help. © Dragons Out Oy 14
  • 15.
    Annoying dragon • Color:Red • Size: Medium • How difficult to find?: Difficult • How difficult to get rid of?: Easy • Flies?: No • Wings: Small • Breaths fire?: Yes • Favorite thing: Eating lambs © Dragons Out Oy 15
  • 16.
    Annoying dragon • Defectname: Memory leak • Severity: Medium • Defect symptoms: The computer gets slower, until it can’t function at all, and it shuts down • Cause of the defect: Memory is reserved for use of the software, but it is not freed after usage • Root causes: Developer is not careful in freeing the memory. May not know how, may not remember. • Testing: You measure used memory as you use the software. If the amount of used memory increases all the time, it is probably a memory leak. • Fix: You run the software one line of code at a time, until you find the spot that should be fixed. Memory is released with a proper piece of code. © Dragons Out Oy 16
  • 17.
    Robbing dragons © DragonsOut Oy 17 • Color: Glittering green, or gray • Size: Small to large • How difficult to find?: Easy to difficult • How difficult to get rid of?: Easy to difficult • Flies?: Some fly, some don’t • Wings: Small to large • Breaths fire?: Yes • Favorite thing: Stealing food and treasure
  • 18.
    Robbing dragons • Defectname: Functionality defects • Severity: Low-Medium-High • Defect symptoms: The software doesn’t do what it should do. Calculation gives wrong result. User sees information in the wrong place. • Cause of the defect: The functionality has been coded wrong. • Root causes: Developer has not understood, what the user has meant. Or the defect exists due to carelessness, or hurry. • Testing: You use the software normally, based on tester experience or requirement definitions. • Fix: Code is changed to work correctly. © Dragons Out Oy 18
  • 19.
    Mean dragon • Color:Black • Size: Small • How difficult to find?: Difficult • How difficult to get rid of?: Medium • Flies?: Yes • Wings: Medium • Breaths fire?: A lot • Favorite thing: Stealing food and treasure without being detected © Dragons Out Oy 19
  • 20.
    Mean dragon • Defectname: Security defect • Severity: High • Defect symptoms: Information from the software is found outside the system (e.g. bank card information). It could also be just software functioning wrong. • Cause of the defect: A criminal has used security defect to break into the system, and then has stolen or destroyed something. • Root causes: Developer has not followed the latest secure coding principles. Maybe doesn’t know these. • Testing: You look for known vulnerabilities in the software by using it, or via a security testing software. You can also review code. Checklist of known defects helps. • Fix: A known vulnerability has also a known fix. It is fixed in the code or system settings. © Dragons Out Oy 20
  • 21.
    Underground dragon • Color:Brown • Size: Large • How difficult to find?: Easy • How difficult to get rid of?: Medium • Flies?: No • Wings: Small • Breaths fire?: A lot • Favorite thing: Finding easy food and eating © Dragons Out Oy 21
  • 22.
    Underground dragon • Defectname: Hardware defect • Severity: High • Defect symptoms: Some part of or all of the computer doesn’t work. • Cause of the defect: A part of hardware has broken over time. • Root causes: A part of hardware may be of low quality, so it doesn’t last as long as it should. Possibly the part doesn’t work well with other parts, so it breaks. • Testing: You use the system normally. You observe the hardware. Test environment uses similar hardware than the users will have. • Fix: You change a broken part to a new one or change to a part that better fits other parts. © Dragons Out Oy 22
  • 23.
    Nice dragon • Color:Glittering green • Size: Medium • How difficult to find?: Easy • How difficult to get rid of?: Easy • Flies?: Yes • Wings: Medium • Breaths fire?: Yes • Favorite thing: Eating animals and helping people © Dragons Out Oy 23
  • 24.
    Nice dragon • Defectname: Defect seeding, mutation testing - a defect created on purpose • Severity: Low • Defect symptoms: It looks like the functionality works wrong, e.g. wrong result from a calculation. So, the defect looks like a functionality defect. • Cause of the defect: Tester or coder has created the defect into the code on purpose. • Root causes: The idea is that when all seeded defects have been found, all defects have been found. • Testing: You use the system normally and try to find all seeded defects. You will also find real defects. When the last seeded defect is found, you can stop testing. • Fix: Remember to fix the code also for the seeded defects, in the same way as for real functionality defects. © Dragons Out Oy 24
  • 25.
    Knights © Dragons OutOy 25 • Developers • Programmers, coders • Testers • Work together, usually in the same development team (Agile) • Build software • Test software • Find and fix defects
  • 26.
    Children, villagers © DragonsOut Oy 26 • Users • Help build software • Test new software • Test old software • Ask for help from technical support and developers, when needed
  • 27.
    Hunters © Dragons OutOy 27 • Technical support • Maintain the software / system • Test • Fix defects • Help users • Ask for help from developers when needed • Sometimes in the development team (DevOps team)
  • 28.
    Lords and Ladies ©Dragons Out Oy 28 • Order software and systems • Product owners • Management • Define what the software should do • Listen to developers
  • 29.
    Sages © Dragons OutOy 29 • Experts in • Usability • Security • Performance • Help product owners • Help development teams
  • 30.
    Feedback survey resultsfrom book readers 30 © Dragons Out Oy
  • 31.
    About collecting feedback •I've run a survey to teachers in Finland about what kind of learning approach has worked best for students of different ages. • The biggest interest has been in age groups 10-15. • The feedback is great. • Survey results combined with verbal feedback from teachers • On a scale from 1-5 the book/testing rates 4,22 • Numbers are small and thus should be treated as tentative • However, the responses reveal interesting views
  • 32.
    Software Testing coupledwith fantasy fits to many teaching subjects • Multiple teaching subjects are covered • Phenomena learning • Coding is most (not surprisingly) best match with software testing N=8 from teachers who used donated books
  • 33.
    Software Testing coupledwith fantasy fits to many teaching subjects • Multiple teaching subjects are covered • Phenomena learning • Coding is most (not surprisingly) best match with software testing N=31 from teachers at trade fair
  • 34.
    What interests childrenabout the topic? • Fantasy works best in creating attraction • Learning of software testing comes as a side effect • A book is preferred over powerpoint lesson (ppt) N=8 from teachers who used donated books
  • 35.
    What interests children about thetopic? • Fantasy works best in creating attraction • Learning of software testing comes as a side effect • A book is preferred over powerpoint lesson (ppt) N=31 from teachers at trade fair
  • 36.
    What are bestsituations to teach with a software testing book? • Teacher assisted learning (classes) gets highest rating even though books can of course be read individually • Organized learning is best! N=8 from teachers who used donated books
  • 37.
    What are bestsituations to teach with a software testing book? • Teacher assisted learning (classes) gets highest rating even though books can of course be read individually • Organized learning is best! N=31 from teachers at trade fair
  • 38.
    Interview insights fromchild readers: What is testing? • Testing is finding bugs • Testing is fight with dragons • Testing going through software with different angles • Testing is using software • Testing is fun
  • 39.
    Interview insights fromchild readers: How do you test? • I try software with different values • I try different things with software • I look for something interesting • I look for something strange • I use a checklist • I use software and observe
  • 40.
    Interview insights fromchild readers: Why do you need testing? • So that the software wouldn’t have bugs • So that software would work correctly • So that I could play a game faster • So that we have good software
  • 41.
    Interview insights fromchild readers: How do you learn testing? • By reading a book • By testing • By using software, looking out for strange things • By coding and trying out my own code • By attending a lecture • By drawing dragons
  • 42.
    Interview insights fromchild readers: What do you do with testing in future? • “I want to be a software tester when I grow up”, a 12-year old boy • “I want to be a coder, and need to test, too”, an 11-year old girl • Coding and testing • Testing professional • Not for me
  • 43.
    Exploratory Testing checklistinspired by children testing Easy ● Fun? ● Strange? ● I can do this, too! ● Slows me down? ● Could be easier? ● Misunderstanding? ● Ugly? ● Cheating? ● As expected? Advanced ● Navigate all paths ● Cancel / Undo ● Check instructions ● Can we both do it? ● Coordinate parallel test ● Special characters ● Profiles and data 43
  • 44.
    Combining learning approaches •It has been fascinating to see how combining different learning approaches works in getting enthusiastic learners into software testing. • The usual combination has been • drawing exercises • listening or reading testing content • understanding through the power of analogies between fantasy and software testing • exploratory testing.
  • 45.
    Interesting ways oflearning for children 45 © Dragons Out Oy
  • 46.
    How children learn? •Stories, examples • Identifying with others, Idols • Imitating • Rhymes, songs • Playing, games • Exploring, doing, trial and error • Simplicity, clarity • Repeating • Remembering • Boundaries (right and wrong) © Dragons Out Oy 46
  • 47.
    Many learning strategies isa good thing • “Children and teenagers learn by observing, listening, exploring, experimenting and asking questions” (1) • “The broader the range of strategies that children can use appropriately, the more successful they can be in problem solving, in reading, in text comprehension and in memorizing. “ (2) © Dragons Out Oy 47 1 https://raisingchildren.net.au/school-age/school-learning/learning-ideas/learning-school-years 2 http://www.ibe.unesco.org/sites/default/files/resources/edu-practices_07_eng.pdf
  • 48.
    Storytelling works for alllearning styles • Visual learners like the mental pictures they get from storytelling • Auditory learners connect with the words and the storyteller’s voice. • Kinesthetic learners can hook into the emotional connections and feelings from the story. • Storytelling also helps with learning because stories are easy to remember © Dragons Out Oy https://www.harvardbusiness.org/what-makes-storytelling-so-effective-for-learning
  • 49.
    Focus on 10-12year olds or “Tweens” • “Around the age of 11 or 12, children learn to think about abstract concepts.” • “Tweens display strong metacognition skills, i.e. ability to think about thinking. Children display this ability through an awareness of knowledge, an awareness of thinking, and an awareness of thinking strategies.” • Software testing is essentially about thinking what we already know and expanding that knowledge by exploring. © Dragons Out Oy 49 https://www.scholastic.com/parents/family-life/creativity-and-critical- thinking/development-milestones/cognitive-development-11-13-year-olds.html
  • 50.
    6 ways forchildren to learn testing - takeaways • Start with a Fantasy example, explain into ICT-world • Be extremely clear and concise • 5-minutes of theory, 20-minutes of exercise structure • Use all the senses (listen, see, talk, draw dragons) • Use common sharing of exercise results (e.g. Padlet) • Try out your test ideas immediately to an app of your choice
  • 51.
    Interesting ways oflearning for adults 51 © Dragons Out Oy
  • 52.
    6 ways foradults to learn testing - takeaways • Use examples and analogues from real-life • Be extremely clear and concise • Hands-on, mostly exercises in the learning • Use all the senses (listen, see, talk, draw mindmaps) • Use common workspace for real-time status of testing (e.g. Mural, Miro) • Get your hands dirty and test some (buggy) software immediately & explain how you test it • These are extrapolated from the findings how children learn best.
  • 53.
    Analogues, parallells • Talkabout day-to-day life to drive your point • Cars • Hobbies • Sports • Pets • Family Pic: https://medium.com/serious-scrum/scrum-s-connection-to-rugby-597405fed5ec
  • 54.
    Clear, concise communication •Express what you mean clearly • Start from big picture • Use concepts that sum it all up, e.g. • Keywords • Mission statements • Vision statements • Values Quote: Farhshad Asl Pic: https://quotefancy.com/quote/1956575/Farshad-Asl-Sharing- a-clear-and-concise-vision-spawns-a-sense-of-purpose-and-direction-It
  • 55.
    Hands-on, exercises • Competenciescan be achieved by performing hands-on exercises • Exercises e.g. on • Setting up and using test environments. • Testing applications on virtual and physical devices. • Using tools on desktops and/or mobile devices to test or assist in testing related tasks such as installation, querying, logging, monitoring, taking screenshots etc. • Basically, hands-on learning is learning by doing Source: https://www.istqb.org/downloads/send/61-mobile- application-testing/251-mobile-application-testing-specialist-syllabus.html Pic and source: http://parklandplayers.com/hands-on-learning- what-does-it-mean-and-why-is-it-important/
  • 56.
    Use all thesenses • Listen to the teacher • With focus! • See the slides • Before, during, after session • Talk and reflect • What is in it for me? • What is in it for us? • Use your hands • Keep notes • Draw pics • Draw mindmaps Pic and source: https://www.mindmup.com/
  • 57.
    Real-time status oftesting • Use Group Memory • Show what is discussed in the class • Record working group tasks • Keep test plans visible • Track test progress in testing exercise • Any sharing tool works • Mural, Miro etc. • Mindmaps • Whiteboard tools Pic: https://www.mural.ly/
  • 58.
    Start testing immediately •Pick a testing approach or technique • Apply immediately • Use software from • The students • Your own company • Startup companies • Record test progress • Record defects • Discuss how you think when you test Pic: https://get.timespace.co/focus/ Source: https://we.knowit.fi/knowit-suomi/win-win-scenario-with-startups
  • 59.
    Thank you! Order thebook: https://www.austinmacauley.com/book/dragons-out Follow and share the book project: • https://www.dragonsout.com • https://www.facebook.com/DragonsOutOy • https://www.instagram.com/dragonsoutbook/ • https://twitter.com/DragonsOutOy • https://www.linkedin.com/company/dragons-out/ Ask questions: kari.kakkonen@dragonsout.com © Dragons Out Oy 59