The Paradox of Pentecost

HOLY SPIRIT PARADOX
EDITED BY GLENN PEASE
PentecostParadoxes
DavidLose
DearWorking Preacher,
What would you say if I suggestedthat we regularly misinterpret Pentecost?
Actually, not just misinterpret it a little, but generallyget Pentecost
completely backwards. Intrigued? Curious? Offended? Readon.
Honestly, I suspectthat we've heard the story of the wind and the tongues-of-
flame and the dove and the crowds-hearing-the-sermon-in-their-own-
languages justenough to believe that the promise of Pentecostis deliverance,
celebration, victory, and strength. The signs of Pentecost, afterall, are mighty.
And what is the Holy Spirit if it is not God's own agent -- the very Spirit of the
resurrectedJesus -- now on earth to accompanyus with signs of wonderand
power.
Except that precisely because the promised Holy Spirit is the presence ofthe
crucified and resurrectedChrist, we should never expect things to be so easy.
In the cross ofChrist, we see God's strength mediated through suffering,
God's victory achievedthrough defeat, and new life pledged and provided
through death. The crucified and resurrectedGod we meet in Jesus is a God
of paradox, and so we should look for no less in God's Holy Spirit.
For this reason, I want to offer for your considerationwhatI'd describe as
two of the paradoxes ofPentecost. First, the Holy Spirit does not come to solve
our problems but to create them. Think about it: absent the coming of the
Holy Spirit, the disciples could go back to their previous careers as fishermen.
I can almosthearing James and John explaining, "Sure, it was a wild and

crazy three-year-ride, and that Jesus sure was a heck of a guy, but maybe we
needed to getthat out of our systembefore we could settle down and take on
Dad's business." Once the Spirit comes, however, thatreturn to normalcy is
no longer an option. They will now be propelled throughout the ancient world
to herald the unlikely message thatGod has redeemedthe world through an
itinerant preacherfrom the backwatersofPalestine who was executedfor
treasonand blasphemy. The Holy Spirit, take note, doesn't solve the disciples'
problems, it creates them.
New York Times columnist David Brooks recentlychallengednew college
graduates to eschew the American obsessionwith self-fulfillment and instead
find themselves in service to others by making and keeping what he described
as sacredcommitments and by rising to the challenges theydiscoverall
around and outside of them. "Mostsuccessfulyoung people," he writes,
"don't look inside and then plan a life. The look outside and find a problem,
which summons their life.... Mostpeople don't form a self and then lead a life.
They are calledby a problem, and the selfis constructedgradually by their
calling."
I believe that the same is true of a community. Our congregations willnot
discoverthemselves until they give themselves away. No amount of time spent
on developing a mission statement or devising new member campaigns can
substitute for looking around one's neighborhood and asking, "Who needs
us?" and "Whatcan we do with our resourcesto bear God's love to this part
of the world?"
(You can watcha video we produced last spring that tries to get at this
element of Pentecostby clicking here, and you can downloada free copy of it
it by going here. )
Paradox#2: The Holy Spirit doesn't prevent failure but invites it. Or, to put it
slightly differently, the Holy Spirit invites us to find fulfillment and victory in
and through our setbacks andfailures. As inspired as I was by the Mission
Control dictum during the crisis of Apollo 13 that "failure is not an option," I
think that kind of mindset is paralyzing too many of our congregations.
Failure is not only an option, it is inevitable. The problems this world -- and

our congregations --face are too great, too complex, and too significant to
imagine that we will hit upon the best solution the first time out...or maybe
ever. Once we've identified a worthy challenge, we must experiment...and
count of failing, innovate...andcount on failing, invent...and count on failing
again. An English teacherin my children's middle schoolonce told me, "I tell
my kids to make a mistake every day -- just not the same mistake!" Each
mistake, eachsetback, eachfalse start, eachfailure is not to be lamented by
learned from.
Further -- and living in a success-obsessedworldcan lead us to forget this --
ultimately it's neither about us nor up to us. God is the creator, sustainer, and
redeemerof this cosmos, andonly God can bring the kind of redemption we
long for and need. Our job is to partner with God's work whereverwe can
discern it. If the cross teachesus nothing else, it teaches thatsuccesswill not
always look like success, andvictory may often come disguised as defeat. The
question isn't whether we're successful, but whether we're faithful. Or, as
Cornell Westonce said, "Sure it's a failure, but was it a goodfailure."
This perspective grants a measure of freedom to throw ourselves into lost
causes, to place ourselves onthe side of those who are most vulnerable, and to
take greatrisks and dare greatventures. Why? Because we trust that
whateverthe immediate results of our efforts, both our hopes and our future
are securednot by our abilities but by God's good promise. Resurrection, we
need to remember, only and always follows crucifixion.
There's a lot, I suspect, that we could do with this kind of message,Working
Preacher, like inviting our people to brainstorm what problems the Holy
Spirit is inviting us into this year, what failures we want to entertain, what
greatventures we want to risk. I'll leave the details to you, always grateful
that through your words this week and always you continue to bear witness to
both the promises and the paradoxes of God's surprising, challenging, and
renewing Holy Spirit. Blessings onyour proclamation.
Yours in Christ,
David

The Paradoxof Pentecost
Rev. Jeff Crews
Sunday, May 27, 2012 -Pentecostand MemorialDay Service
Text:
Sermon Text
The feastof Pentecostis one of the three high holy days of ancient Israel.
During the feastthat occurredright after Jesus had been crucified, many
Jews had gatheredin Jerusalem, including 120 Jews who were devoted
followers of a Jewishprophet named Jesus ofNazareth. On this feastday,
these Jesus-followersexperiencedsomething that changedtheir lives, and our
lives, forever. The leader of this small band, Peter, delivered the first sermon
in response to an unusual occurrence that day, the life-changing experience of
the Holy Spirit come among them. The rush of violent wind coming from and
going nowhere, tongues of fire that did not burn, and diverse languages broke
like a roaring river into their midst. And bystanders asked, “Whatdoes this
mean?”
Will you pray with me? “Blowing God, enflamed God, breathe on us today
like you blew on those who were there at the founding of the church, and
paradoxically, in our gifted differences, make us One together. Amen.”
We have all heard this powerful story before. The Holy Spirit descendedon
the new church. What we sometimes forgetis that in the next few verses of
Acts, all that same first morning, the church grew from 120 to 3000. Talk
about New Member Engagementand church growth! But think for a
moment what happened that invited that growth. Every single one of the
original 120, filled with the spirit, listened to Peter’s sermonabout God never

abandoning us and God lifting Jesus up beyond death. Peterpreached that
nothing will separate us from God using the words of the Prophet Joel, “I saw
God always before me, for God is at my right hand and I will not be
shaken…Godhas made knownto me the ways of life.” And Petertransferred
the promise of life triumphing over death to us .
Here, Peterexplained that in the death of the cross, Jesuscame to life beyond
the grave. Jesus’victorycame because of the apparent defeat of the cross.
This is the paradox of the cross. Deathbefore life. Defeatbefore victory . The
story of Christ and the story of the church are both filled with twists and deep
paradox. Let’s us look at this old story with new eyes.
So imagine this scene in Jerusalem. Fifty days after the crucifixion all of the
gatheredare missing Jesus deeply. They gettogetherdaily to talk and
remember and reminisce about the goodold days when Jesus keptthem
jumping and always teaching them new things. But now, after some weeks,I
imagine some starting to think about returning home to Galileeto fish, or to
the Jordanto take up their previous lives. They yearn to return to making a
living the goodold-fashioned way. Some begin to dream about settling back
into simple lives again, awayfrom all this constantagitationand change and
newness and trying to speak truth to power. “Soon,” theysay, “we will get
back to just being normal people doing normal stuff.” Thatkinda sounds nice
and comforting doesn’tit? “Soon, back to normal. No more change. Ahhh.”
And then, wham [clap hands]. They are shaken by tongues of fire that
paradoxically do not burn, blown by violent wind that paradoxicallydoes not
destroy, and all speaking different languages, but focusedon one thing only :
God’s deeds of powerful love. Another paradox of Pentecost! The Holy Spirit
did not come that day to solve their problems, but, insteadthe coming Holy
Spirit came creating new challenges . They were all headed back to their
homes and normal lives as fishermen and merchants and homemakers, but
then, they are blown all over the world enflamed by the spirit spreading the
GoodNews of God’s love to everyone, starting with the 3000 onlookersthat
first day . The Holy Spirit does not come as a comforting dove, gently
hovering over them all warm and fuzzy and comfy. No The Holy Spirit kicks

them and pushes them and cajoles them and tugs them and prods them and
wrangles them and urges them out into the new world.
And in that first morning, they grew 25 times. That’s powerful kicking and
cajoling! But it took everyone speaking—notjustPeter. Eachone invited
another, and then another and then another. “Come share this new life I have
found!” They could not be silencedin their joy and enthusiasm.
So when was the last time you invited someone to church? Not to say “Come
be a Christian”—but instead to just say, “Come share the joy and fun of
community that I have found. Come share unconditional love. Come feel this
community of seeking and caring.” Whenwas the lasttime YOU shared your
enthusiasm for this church with a little fire and a little wind of enthusiasm?
Do your co-workers orbook club members even know you come to church, or
heaven forbid, why you come here ? And remember, it does not matter how
people respond to your invitation. All that matters is that you plant the seed
in others. The Holy Spirit will waterand tend to that seed. But if you do not
plant, God cannotharvest.
This introduces yet another paradox of Pentecost. Goddefines success
differently than we do. Look back at the cross. Humankind defines the cross
as complete ultimate failure. Deathand defeat. But God re-defined the cross
into the ultimate victory, overcoming death with love . So our fear of
rejectioncan be used by God also. Whatif who you invite says “No?” Will
we be failures? No, because in God’s Realm, the apparent failure takes that
planted seedand makes a new thing. People will wonder, “Is there really a
place where I canbe loved for who I am without judgment and
condemnation? Is there really a place where I can learn about life’s meaning?
Does sucha place exist in this crazy 21 st century world?” The paradox is
that even our human failures can open the door for the Holy Spirit to work in
the world. And because we canadmit our failures here, we can also begin to
acknowledge thatwe all need the saving grace of God.
So give us an example, Jeff. I am sure you remember my first sermon here
with you. On 9/11, I preacheda sermon of peace and love and forgiveness.
And some folks walkedout because they wanted to hear a sermon about

patriotism and national pride. My first sermonseemedto some to be a
horrible human failure. But in that failure were the seeds ofnew hope and
growth, new seeds of dialogue and discussionaboutwhat it means to be a
Christian in this country in this time. New seeds aboutwho and what we are.
A community of Christ followers and American citizens also—but sometimes
those two conflict. This is a paradox of Pentecost, thatin the seeds ofour
striving and attempts at growth and being church that we might occasionally
seemto fail, but it is our faithful journey with Christ that is our focus, and not
successatevery turn. At my first Council meeting here, I askedthe Council
for permissionto try some things that may not work. I askedfor permission
to make some mistakes, to open up some space to be daring and bold and
experimental and energetic. Theygave me permission to do that, and I am
reminded today that the Paradoxof Pentecostis that we do not know when
the seeds we have planted are being used by the spirit for growthof the
church. The folks in our passageactedlike they were drunk on wine as they
babbled in many languages, but the seeds they planted in that humanly
chaotic babbling meant the Spirit was able to bring 3000 people that first day
into the new church. We will not grow if we do not try new things. We will
not grow if we do not dare to be foolishfor Christ. We will not grow if we do
not spreadour enthusiasm and love for this community into our wider
community and dare to make a few mis-steps along the way . We will not
grow if we do not speak to the people in our lives about our experiences here
at Spring Glen Church just like the 120 people in our passagespoke to the
people around them.
Another Paradoxof Pentecostis that it took everybody in the first church
speaking in different languages to begin to realize they were unified in their
messageofGod’s powerof love . It was when they expresseddifferences in
their speechthat they began to understand their unity! When we are all the
same, we do not comprehend the incredible powerof our unity. It is when we
are able, though the power of love and compassion, to live through and
beyond our differences , that the powerof the Body of Christ as One becomes
breathtakingly real in our lives. Paradoxically, it is our very differences that
demonstrate the powerof our unity in Christ. In the same way for us, the
powerof growthin this community will not be in attracting people exactly like

us. The real power of growth in the Spirit is when we reachout to those in the
world who are not like us— and love them anyway . It is easyto love those
who are like us. But when we follow the spirit of Jesus we learnto love
everyone beyond our differences;because no matter who you are, and no
matter where you are on your paradoxicaljourney to Pentecost, you are
welcome here.
Our passagefrom Romans adds still another paradox to Pentecost. It talks
about groaning and speaking words of hope when we cannot see whatwe hope
for. But the Romans passagealso talks aboutthe Spirit helping us in our
weakness . It is when we are weak and confusedthat we can be most open to
prayer asking for help. When we are weak with not knowing where to turn,
then we stop and walk with eachother in the power of the spirit, discerning
where God is leading us . When we are humanly strong, we think we have the
answers. Butwhen we are weak, we open ourselves up to community, a
community of Spirit and Christ where we depend upon one another for
communal wisdom and clarity. Paradoxically, when we are weak and turn to
one another, we become far strongerthan we are alone .
So in this Pentecostseason, we are facedwith severalparadoxes that focus on
community and spirit. The defeat of the cross becomesultimate victory over
death. The Holy Spirit comes to shake us up, not to make us comfortable.
The Holy Spirit uses our apparent failures to plant seeds of hope. The spirit
uses our diversity to demonstrate our greatestand most profound strength of
unity. The spirit transforms us from individuals into a community of faithful
believers. In community, God’s fuller image is revealedto us. We are each
createdin God’s image, but as we gatherin community and add all of our
individual images of Godtogether, we begin to see a more complete image of
God. Eachone of us brings a unique new language to our everyday Pentecost.
Eachone of us adds to the Pentecostfire and wind. Each one of us brings a
unique and varied experience of the flame and blowing Spirit, and all of us
togetherform the image of God’s church; the breathing, flaming, groaning,
blowing church together. Every time we gather together, we live the
everyday ParadoxicalPentecostofGod’s passionate flaming love.
Come, Holy Spirit, Come! Unsettle us into action, here, today. Amen.

Romans 8:5 ESV
For those who live according to the flesh settheir minds on the things of the
flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit settheir minds on the things
of the Spirit.
Absolute surrender means you give over all – all rights, all choices – even the
right to think in secretas you please.
To give over the controlto the Spirit seems to be coming into the most
restrictive and confined life, but He is the giver of true liberty, the arbiter and
advocate offreedom – not imprisonment. He releases, He doesn’t diminish.
Remember, “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has SET YOU FREE
from the law of sin and death.”
The greatspiritual paradox is that to give your freedoms away to the Lord
gains for you the most exquisite, unfolding freedom through the incomparable
Holy Spirit!" UNKNOWN
Trinity: The Triune Paradox
Postedon May 30, 2010 by wcwirla
Download
In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
“And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity and
Trinity in Unity, neither confusing eh persons nor dividing the substance.”
Not three gods but one God in essence. And yet not one Personbut three
Persons. Tri-une. Three in One and One in Three. Gotit?

Of course you do! Or do you? Well, today is Holy Trinity Sunday, the day we
celebrate the centralparadox of the Christian faith, namely, that God is both
Three and One at the same time. Three Persons in One Divine Essence,one
Divine Essencein three Persons. Strange?You bet it is. Irrational? Yes,
though you can understand it well enough to repeat it. We do every week in
the Creed. And we will shortly in the words of the Athanasian Creed, which
summarizes four hundred years of struggling to say it just the right way. And
still we can only come to an approximation, as though looking through a dirty
window pane. We can describe God using words like “person” and “being”
and “essence” and“substance”but we can’t really explain God or get a bead
on Him. How can something be both Three and One?
There are some failed attempts to makes analogies. Acube, for, has three
distinct dimensions – height, width, depth, which togethermake a cube.
Without all three, you don’t have a cube at all. You’d have a square or a line.
But the problem is that eachdimension is not a cube but only one side of a
cube.
There is the hat analogy, that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are like someone
wearthree distinct hats, for example one man may be a father, a husband,
and a sonat the same time. So God has three hats – a Father hat, a Son hat,
and a Holy Spirit hat. Clever, but again, it fails. When Jesus prays, He does
not pray to Himself but to His Father. And Jesus didn’t send Himself to die,
but the Father sent the Son with all authority in heaven and on earth.
There is the triple point of wateranalogy. At it’s triple point, waterco-exists
as solid ice, liquid water, and vapor all at the same time. All are essentially
“water” H2O, but they are simply different states ofthe same thing. But that
doesn’t quite do the trick either. Father, Son, and Spirit are not states ofGod
or modes of God’s existence, but distinct Persons with a distinct relationship
to eachother.
The error is called“modalism,” where you don’t have three distinct persons
but you have three modes of God’s presence. That’s one of the two ditches you
end up in when you try to resolve the tri-une paradox. Mostanalogies failin
this way. They’re modalistic. The other ditch is tri-theism – three gods. That’s

what Islam accuses Christianityof. Tritheism. They even callus tri-theists. If
you lose the Persons, youwill end up as either a modalist or a unitarian. If you
lose the one Essence, youwill wind up with three separate gods.
The closestthat anyone has come to a decentanalogyis St. Augustines who
used the analogyof love – the Father is the Lover, the Son the beloved, the
Spirit love. And still that fails somehow. All we can do is distinguish the
Persons – the Father is uncreated, unbegotten, unproceeding. The Son is
begottenof the Father. And the Spirit proceeds from the Fatherand the Son.
That’s what distinguishes them. And yet there is but one God, and whenever
God deals with us, all three Persons dealwith us, eachaccording to what is
properly His.
The trick to all paradoxes is to stay on the road, confessing both but favoring
neither. It’s not really that hard to say back, just impossible to rationalize. We
worship three Persons – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in one Being or Essence
called“God.” It’s really as simple as that.
And the Trinity is literally all over the Scriptures. From the opening verses of
Genesis in which the Father speaks the Word as the Spirit hovers over the
waters of the deep to the Revelation, in which the Lamb who was slain but
lives is enthroned at the right hand of the Fatherand the Spirit flows like a
river of life from Father and Son.
In today’s OT reading from the Proverbs, the Son is personified as Wisdom,
begottenfrom all eternity, from before the beginning of the earth. In his
Gospel, Johnstates it this way: In the beginning was the Word and the Word
was with God and the Word was God. With God and was God. Paradox. Two
things held togetherat once.
You heard it in the epistle reading and Peter’s quoting of the psalm: “The
Lord says to my Lord, sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your
footstool.”Jesus confrontedHis detractors with that psalm and askedthem,
paradoxically, “How canDavid’s son be David’s Lord?” And how can“the
Lord” and “my Lord” talk to eachother and sit next to eachother?

Finally, in today’s Gospelwe have Jesus Himself being confronted with the
paradox of who He is as the Sonof God in the flesh. The religious types
thought He was nuts. “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan
and have a demon?” That’s another wayof saying, “You’re nuts.” And
anyone who claims to be the Son of God in the flesh is nuts or delusional or
demon possessedorat leasta Samaritanheretic. It’s a crazy claim and worthy
of all dismissal. If I made that claim to you, that God Himself is my Father,
you’d have every right to ignore me and tell me to getsome help. You can’t
really blame the Jews for doubting Jesus. Here He was, a carpenterfrom
Nazareth, claiming not simply to be the Messiah, the Christ. But also claiming
that God Himself was His Father, that He was sentby the Father, that the
Father glorifies Him with a glory not given to Abraham or to Mosesorto any
of the prophets.
Jesus evenrubs it in a little bit by indicating that FatherAbraham rejoicedby
faith that he would see Jesus’day. He acted as though He and Abraham were
on a first name basis, which they were, and had seeneachother, which they
had. And then Jesus pushes the big button and flat out says it, “Before
Abraham was, I am.” And this doesn’t simply mean that Jesus is
chronologicallyolderthan Abraham, but that Jesus is the I AM who Moses
say in the burning bush, YHWH of the ineffable name, the LORD, the God of
Abraham, Isaac and Jacobwho keeps covenantand shows mercy.
They understood preciselywhat Jesus was saying. There was not mistake in
hearing. They immediately took up stones to throw at Him. He claimed to be
“I AM” in the flesh, an audacious claim, a crazy claim really.
The core truth of today is that the doctrine of the Trinity centers on Jesus. It’s
really all about Jesus and His being sent to save the world, to save you. If the
Son of God had not come in the flesh, there would be no need for all this
triune paradox. We could all be unitarians and worship the Fatheror Jehovah
or whatever we wanted to call Him or Her. But when the Son of God shows
His face to the world and suffers, dies on a cross, andrises from the dead,
when He reveals the Father to us, and sends the Spirit out as His breath, all
religious bets concerning God are off.

Luther was fond of saying that he knew no other God than the one who nurses
at the breastof His virgin mother and who hands dead on the cross bearing
the world’s sin. It’s very tempting to speculate aboutGod and come up with
cleveranalogies andtheories and alternative theologies.But that is nothing
more than subtle idolatry in the end, our fashioning gods for ourselves in our
own image and likeness. Godcomes to His in the eternalSon. We know God
in knowing Jesus. And we know no other Godbut this Jesus who suffers, dies,
and rises, who sends His Spirit, who brings us to the Father.
The triune life of God is also our life in Holy Baptism. We are baptized into
the Name of the Fatherand of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We live, move,
and have our being within this Triunity, worshipping the Fatherin the Spirit
and in the Truth who is Jesus, having Godas our Father, Jesus as our
brother, and the Spirit as our Advocate and Guide. We are loved by the
Father in the BelovedSon who bears our humanity and are drawn by the
Spirit.
They wanted to take up stones and throw them at Jesus. Theywanted to kill
Him for saying He was the Son of God. They couldn’t bear the thought that
the Word could become flesh and dwell among them. They wantedGod “out
there” in heavensomewhere, safelytranscendent, big and mighty, powerful
and remote. But that’s not a God who cansave from sin and rescue from
death. The God must draw near, empty Himself of HIs divine glory and take
on our humanity, become one of us, and in our humanity humble Himself
under His own Law in obedience to death. And being humbled in death, He
must be raised to life againand glorified at the right hand of the Father, now
bearing our humanity so that we too are glorified in Him.
“If I glorify myself,” Jesus said, “my glory is nothing.” Self-glory is vain glory,
empty glory, narcissistic vanity. The Father glorifies the Son. And the Son
glorifies us in His dying and rising by the Spirit whom He breathes out overus
in our Baptism. And we, trusting that this mysterious Triune God is merciful
and gracious to us for His Son’s sake worshipthe trinity in unity and the unity
in trinity.
Blessedbe the Holy Trinity and the Undivided Unity.

Blessedbe God – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, one God in three
Persons, now and forever.
Amen
This entry was postedin Feasts andFestivals, Series C by wcwirla. Bookmark
the permalink.
Is the Holy Trinity a paradox and therefore impossible to understand
logically?

ad by Toptal
What's the best platform to use to hire UI/UX designers?
There are many platforms out there where you canfind UI/UX designers.I
have seenprimarily four types of sites:
Vetted talent sites. The best example here is Toptal[1]. You find...
(Continue Reading)
38 Answers
Robert Merrill, Not very good, but persistent, followerof Jesus Christ.
Answered Feb15, 2015 · Author has 222 answers and255.5k answerviews
Maybe I'm simple, but it's never bothered me. I've been told that light is both
a wave and a particle, and that an electroncan be found in either of two
disconnectedregions around its atom at any point in time, so it isn't just
theology. There's the math and the data, I'm told.
Father and Son are relational, not material. Our ontologies are so material
that things like Odysseus'Boatmake us ponder, but to one with a functional
ontology, they are questions for children.

Love is relational. A single-personalGodcould not be love in the absence ofa
createdother, and therefore seems incomplete. But a triune God could be
love, in Himself, without a createdother, and is therefore complete.
The Trinity was a conceptput forward by three Cappadocianmonks to
resolve an apparent dilemma in the Scriptures. It's not clearlyspelled out in
Scripture itself. It's a model. Like most goodmodels, it's an aid to
understanding the reality it represents, but is never to be confusedwith that
reality.
It's all waaayabove my pay grade though. The most intelligent and devout of
us is like a third-grader talking about quantum mechanics, which is what we
should expectif God is God.
1.5k views · View 20 Upvoters
RelatedQuestions
More Answers Below
Does the Trinity make any sense? How is three one and one three?
Why doesn't the Trinity Doctrine make logicalsense?
How would you explain the Holy Trinity with logic or mathematics? How
would you define the Trinity in non-biblical terms? Is there proof the T...
Can the conceptof the Trinity be explained logically?
What are the triangle and holy trinity?

Shri Datta Swami, Clarify all spiritual doubts from Me, I have come to uplift
the humanity
Answered Jan15, 2016 · Author has 1.3k answersand 572.4kanswerviews
It is easyto understand the preaching of Jesus, but, the most difficult part is
to understand Jesus as the human incarnation of the unimaginable God in
which both the human being and God co-existlike current and wire. This
conceptis not digestedby the majority of the public, which crucified Him due
to ego and jealousy. The majority always likes Jesus to be one among them
and the existence of God in Him can never be tolerated. Of course, people do
not mind much to give a little specialtyas the messengerofGod. Some people,
who are filled with ego and jealousyfrom top to bottom will not agree evento
this little specialtyand such people are almostatheists or demons. The
messengermeans a human being existing in the kingdom of God like any
other human being, selectedby God for service. This reflects the first
statement‘I am in the light’.
This corresponds to the Dvaita philosophy of Madhva. This is dualism
insisting on the total difference betweenGodand human being even though
the human being is possessedby God. This is correctin the sense that God is
unimaginable and the human being is imaginable. But, this difference is not
opposing the truth that such a human being is possessedby God. Current is
the streamof electrons and the wire is the chain of metallic particles. Both are
totally different. But this difference does not oppose the truth that a specific
metallic wire is possessedby current. Every wire need not have the current
and hence every human being is not possessedby God. Again, this point
provokes the jealousyof the people.
The secondstatement‘the light is in me’ is that a specific devotedhuman
being selectedby Godis possessedby God. This corresponds to the Son of
God in whom only the blood of the Father is flowing. Everybody is not the Son
and so every human being is not possessedby God. Even though Father and

Son are different individuals, the Soncannot be isolatedfrom the Father due
to the blood. The separable and inseparable concepts co-existand this is the
Vishishta Advaita of Ramanuja, which is a bridge betweenMadhva and
Shankara.
The advaita belongs to Shankara, whichis the oneness ofthe two inseparable
items like current and wire during the period of flow of current in the wire.
Hence, the human being possessedby God is treatedas Godfor all practical
purposes. This is reflectedby the statement ‘I am the light’. This is supported
by other statements like ‘I am the truth’ and ‘I and my Father are one and the
same’.
The human being possessedby God is also an ordinary human being like
anybody else before the possession. This human being is selectedby God to
spread His message andis called as messenger.The jealousyin others starts
here itself since others are not selected. This is zero level of people. Such
people, who could not tolerate Jesus evenas messenger, shockedto hear
secondand third levels crucified Him. The jealousyfurther grows if the
messengeris possessedby God and becomes Sonof God. Mohammad, the
next Prophet stopped at the level of messengeritself, to avoid the further
growth of the jealousyand opposedthe conceptof human incarnation. The
secondstage, whichis the entry of God into a specific human being and the
third stage, whichis treating the specific human being as God are more and
more provoking to the zero level and are dangerous. Mohammadavoided the
secondand third stagesand hence was savedfrom crucifixion.
Jesus announcedthe three stages separatelyto the three levels of people. The
problem is that the zero level people also hear the statements of the first,
secondand third levels. The zero level people, who cannot tolerate even the
first level will be upset more and more to the higher and highest levels. People
of different levels are not isolatedby walls. The small catwill also enter the
big hole of Newton!Therefore, Mohammadthought that it is better to stand
on the first level itself. The first level is inevitable because the message ofGod
should be spread standing as the messenger. The zero level people will be hurt
by the first level also, but, there is no much dangerin absence of the second

and third levels. The reactionwill reach climax when the zero level receives
the statementof third level!
101 views · View 1 Upvoter
sponsoredby TruthFinder
Enter a name, wait 7 seconds, brace yourself(this is addicting).
This controversialnew searchengine reveals so much more than 'googling'.
Just click the link to search.
Learn More at truthfinder.com
Hans Wierenga, Practicing Information Scientist(1976-present)
Answered Jan26, 2018 · Author has 96 answers and 61.5k answerviews
What follows is a logicallyunderstandable, non-paradoxicalsketchof a godly
trinity. Readit first, and work out whether the sketchresembles your God
afterward.
The primal thoughts
There is the One, in whom all that has come to exist is presentin thought. The
One knows countless thoughts, but these are not of equal rank. Three
thoughts unite the One, and bind all the others together. Three primal
thoughts determine the harmony and balance within the One. The first of
these is the thought of Purpose;this thought creates. The secondthought is
the thought of Love, which is the basis of the acceptance ofall that is, both
within and outside of the One. The third is the thought of Consciousness.
Note that the existence of three primal thoughts does not mean that the One is
three. The One is one, pure and simple. And the One is a 1 followed by one
hundred and twenty zeroes, orsome other such stupendous number which

indicates the number of thoughts in the One, if indeed there is any limit to
them. We can also say that the One is 777, but that is not a numerical
statement, merely a symbolicalway of saying that the One is complete in all
senses.But the One is not three, for although the primal thoughts focus all the
others, they do not contain them.
The Purpose
Purpose is meaning, it is goal, it is direction. Purpose drives expression.
Purpose is creative;it wills the new into being. Purpose is beauty and truth -
there is both beauty and truth wheneversomething within the universe fulfils
its purpose. Purpose is science, it is mathematics and logic, it is natural laws.
To Purpose we owe it that our world is predictable and therefore liveable. It is
thanks to Purpose that our senses canbe trusted - if not always directly, then
yet in the ways that they deceive us. Purpose upholds and maintains the
universe in the truth. To Purpose we owe it that matters which we deem to be
unrelated can surprise us with hidden connections. Purpose decreesthatone
thought joined to another opens a vista, and the addition of a third opens a
world. In other words, Purpose results in the evolution of higher purposes.
Purpose is will, and power, and strength. Purpose is coherence, structure and
order. Purpose is faith.
The Love
Love is participation, it is appreciation, it is joy. Love is the perceptionthat
that which is expressedis good. Love transforms differences into harmony,
notes into music, and variety into beauty. Love is giving, it becomes a part of
that which is expressed. Love is passion:it is desire and enjoyment both. Love
is society. It is the way a mother holds her baby, the way a man looks ata
woman and sees whatothers do not, it is giving and not counting the cost. To
Love we owe it that we know that we are of value, regardless ofour failures
and regardless ofour successes. ThroughLove, relationships are bonds, for
better and for worse. Love is cooperation. Therefore, Love and life are
inseparable;the essenceoflife is cooperationamongst cells, and the greater
the variety of cells and the more they are interwoven, the more abundant the
life.

The Consciousness
Consciousnessis awareness, itis knowing, it is perception. Consciousness
understands that which is expressed. Consciousnessconnectsthe parts to the
whole, it sees the unity in the diversity. Consciousnessitselfis distinct and
separate from that which is expressed, it recreatesit within Himself.
Consciousnessis arts, it is communication and inspiration. It is memory, it ties
the pastto the present. Consciousnessis anticipation, the ability to see the
future in the present. Consciousnessis hope. Consciousness seesthings as they
truly are. It determines the essenceofthat which is observed, it distinguishes
what it is of itself and what it is by context. Consciousness is self-reflection, it
is humour, it is the ability to compare the actualwith the expected;it is
laughter, including the ability to laugh about one’s self.
The unity of the three
The three can be distinguished, but not separatedfrom one another. The
Purpose and the Love owe their consciousnessto the Consciousness. The
Consciousnessand the Love owe their purpose to the Purpose. The Purpose
and the Consciousness joinin the love of the Love. The three primal thoughts
are interdependent. Without Consciousness,there can be no Love; without
Love, Purpose would lose His way; without Purpose, there is nothing to love
and nothing to be conscious of. Love is the crown to Purpose, and
Consciousnessis the powerthat holds it there. Love is the fruit of Purpose and
Consciousness, Purpose unites Consciousnessto Love, and Consciousness is
how Love appreciates Purpose. The three join together, losing nothing of what
they are separately, in complete desire and complete fulfillment. The One and
the three eachare complex in many, many senses,and yet have a unity that is
far greaterthan the diversity. Eachof them is conscious. So is the One a
personalbeing, as are eachof the three, and eachof us. The three are focal,
not just to the One, but also to the expressionof the One in the universe. The
Purpose of the One is the source of all purposes within the universe. The Love
of the One enjoys the universe. The Consciousnessofthe One perceives the
universe and the One.
Non-commensurability

There is no meaning that can be attachedto the statementthat the three
primal thoughts are equal. They are non-commensurable. It is just as when
electricalpowerinduces a light bulb to shine: to say that the power, the light
bulb and the light which the bulb produces are in any way commensurate is
the purest nonsense, for there is no frame of reference in which they canbe
compared. All notions of the equality of the three are devoid of a Biblical basis
and totally unnecessary.
�`.�
317 views · View 2 Upvoters
sponsoredby LendingTree
This lender is revolutionizing business loans.
Business lending redefined: Getmatched to your best business loan today.
Learn More at lendingtree.com
Steve Rider, Son of Man, officially
Answered Feb15, 2016 · Author has 235 answers and155.8k answerviews
Make the sign of the cross:
Father - hand on head - mind
Son - hand on chests/belly - body
Holy Spirit - hands on both shoulders - Logos/Logic
To teach someone something, you need two references, something one knows,
and new knowledge youwant to teach.

You need two points, two perspectives, just like you need two eyes to see
depth, third dimension.
Father and Son are One, just like body and mind are one, one cannot go
without the other.
Jesus also is The Truth, The Way and The Life.
Let's focus only on Truth.
Miracles ofTruth are logical, if you remove the idea that those are of body.
I know lot's of Christians believe that Jesus did physical miracles, but that's
just not logical, it has no sense.
If he really did miracles of matter, he could change the world in so many
levels - snap his fingers and create tanks, robots, cars, airplanes, internet and
youtube so everybody would see his miracles.
Miracles are metaphor for PowerofTruth - Truth can heal you (realize
smoking is bad and stop it while it's not too late), open eyes (clarify things,
teach), raise from dead (where "dead" is mind, not body), expel demons
(lies)....
And this is all done with the powerof Holy Spirit, or Logic.
You could say I am doing the same miracles as Jesus did, but for that you'll
need faith, common sense.
Of course, you could rebuke the idea and callme a liar, but you'll have to
admit that my explanation is better than yours, it's more logicaland it makes
sense.
Father and Son are One, so Fatheris Life and Truth also.
So, how does life look in nature and we could connectit to trinity?
Of course, it's the water(vater - father).
God is Universe and Universe is endless oceanwhere every drop is reflection
of every other drop and oceanitself.

Jesus was able to call himself Sonof Father, simply because he knew his
father.
If you'd never met your father in your life, how would you know who your
father was?
You could go past him and never turn and say: "DADDY!".
Jesus was able to call himself Sonof God, simply because he understood
what/who God was - Truth, Life, Mind, Love, Thought, Universe, Spirit,
Abstraction, "Notof this world"...
So, if God is Water, then Jesus is Ice, solid state of water.
Then Holy Spirit is Gas/Vapor(hovering above the water).
Water's anomaly, the property of ice to float on wateris the reason life is
possible.
Otherwise, oceanswouldfreeze and all fishes in it.
Ice is like truth, and truth is like ice - it forms islands, ice bergs that float on
the waterand makes us "walk on the water" (where wateris sea of
information that surrounds us).
We all live on our little ice patches, ice bergs or islands (as depicted in Inside
Out - Pixar's cartoon).
Some ice bergs are bigger(let's say you love sports) and it's gravity is bigger.
We will attract information that are compatible with knowledge (islands)
we've already built (your searchpattern on google wouldshow that you're
interestedin sports more than, let's say, romantic movies).
Ice canfreeze the wave, calm the surface, and "walk on water".
There's a saying "on thin ice", when we don't have enough knowledge ofsome
field and we don't feel confident. More knowledge ofa field we have, more
confident we are. The thicker the ice is.
On the other hand, this could be a problem, because some knowledgewe have
are basedon lies, so changing it is hard.

It's like trying to melt a mile thick ice. Almost impossible.
There is anothertrinity in our lives we live by: Solid food, Water and Air.
They all mean "life", and are not the same, yet they all are important.
Logos (word of God) / Logic is omnipotent. It can turn anything to everything
else simply by taking attribute/properties of something and connecting it to
something else. That's the power of Holy Spirit - to take two points and
abstractly connectit.
Like connecting "I am" and "wolf" with one simple word "hunger".
And there you have: "I am hungry like a wolf".
Or "I am" and "kite"
But I'm not high on drugs, I'm high on logic.
It can take you wherever you want, makes you fly in abstractionand connect
things, jump from one ice berg, one knowledge to the other like a bee jumping
from one flowerto the other.
Well, enoughdemonstration.
Hope it helps.
Have fun jumping around in abstraction.
Jim Noblett, studied at Schools

Answered May 21, 2015 ·Author has 1k answers and 1m answerviews
In the Bible there are a couple of verses that when takenalone would make
one think that Jesus and God almighty are one and the same.
But there are hundreds of verses that make it apparent that they are separate
individuals.
And the couple that appearotherwise make sense whenviewed in context.
For instance at john 10:30 Jesus says 'I and the father are one' So by itself this
verse supports the trinity. But at john 17:21 He goes further and says that he
wants his disciples to be one as he and his father is one. Obviously he was not
saying that his disciples should all be one person, just as he was not saying
that he and God were one person.
Jesus says the father is greaterthan him. He prays to his father. He says he
was not sent to do his own will but his father's. He says the father is his God.
After he went back to heaven Jesus is said to be sitting at his father's right
hand. It is said that he never consideredmaking himself equal to God. It says
he was createdby God.
These verses make it clearthat Jesus and God are separate.
Nathan Ketsdever, lifelong theologicalquestioner

Answered Feb2, 2016 · Author has 31.8k answersand 11.6manswerviews
I think its a mistake for someone outside the faith or in the faith for that
matter to start at the Trinity to attempt to understand God. I think you can
realize that all the parts exist without having to take the next stepthat they
are part of the same being.
The Trinity does help us understand the relational nature of humans and the
communal nature of humans (we were made in the Image of God), but to
attempt to understand a God would be like your dog attempting to do
philosophy on par with Aristotle, Plato, or Descartes. Godis a spiritual being,
and our limits of our understanding of beings is primarily physical.
Using the analogyof the different states ofwater (steam, water, vapor, ice)
can perhaps provide a wayto think about such things.
But let's be honest, science has its own share of imponderables like string
theory and quantum mechanics that lots of scientistengage in science andyet
haven't fully gottento the bottom of either string theory or quantum
mechanics. The same goes forthe Trinity.
This is like on your SAT.....youwould go past this question and come back
later. The Trinity is a question you mature into, even as you realize the limits
of your own understandings of God.
Looking at the issues ofthe Historical Jesus, the Worldview questions, Design,
and Fine-turning are four places to start thinking about such questions.
Trausti Thor Johannsson, Atheistwho has read the bible amongstother
Answered May 4, 2016 · Author has 5.4k answersand 13.7manswerviews

Thou shalt have no other gods but me makes it pretty clearthat the holy
trinity is two too many. Two is a company, three is a crowd.
This trinity stuff is just what the church made up in order to try to getgroups
of religions under one roof. Catholics worshipMary, the mother of Jesus,
Christians worship a carpentercalled Jesus and Jews worshipGod. So these
groups need something to have in common, so they made up this trinity, that
god is god, but is also his own son and a ghost. WHAT ? Yes. God is a ghost,
spirit, his son or whatever else the incredibly imaginary minds of those that
make up religion canthink of. Jesus is also a toast, fish, thin slice of bread, he
is even a toilet door. Thousands of people have visited a poor family and given
them money because they sayJesus in in the toilet door, still they do their
stuff on the toilet.
It is impossible to understand logicallybecause it isn't logical. Same things
happen in all fairytales. Even when my kids were around 3, they were asking
why did they not do that ? Or did this ? It doesn't make sense as it wasn't
made up by very smart people.
312 views
Quilla Slhrinthianan, Ongoing Student of Life; empath; Atheist with an open
mind...
Answered Mar11, 2016 · Author has 63 answers and 47.1k answerviews
The Trinity canjust possibly be lookedat in speculative terms...
Here's an unusual idea.
First, start with Jehovah:my theory is that he is a

hyperintelligent life form from higher-dimensional space, assuming such
space exists and that it has life.
As a means of exerting his will in our universe, he may have found a way to
create a human copy of himself; that would explain Jesus.
And the Holy Spirit could be the energy and wave of changes surrounding
these and other actions on the part of Jehovah.
These thus aren't three persons, nor three parts of the same
person. Once Jesus exists as a free-willed person in our space, he has
his ownexistence. Assuming Jehovahhas a wayto use the field of his
influence, calledthe Holy Spirit by most Christians, to sustain a means
of perpetuating Jesus's consciousness, thatwould explain the way the
three interact and interdepend. Thus Jesus would continue to have free
will.
I sustain my Atheism by stating that even if all of this is true,
it remains to be seenwhether they can successfullyaccomplishthe same
thing with human consciousness.This would appearto be their goal. At
the very least, preventing human extinction is something worth their
attention. And ours!
14 views
Sabri Shahin, Business Engineering Consultantat HP Enterprise Business
(2006-present)

Answered Mar18, 2019 · Author has 9k answers and 834.3kanswerviews
Scholars ofeachreligion like to boastand claim that their prophet is the best
prophet and that they have the only way for salvation
Some scholars exaggeratemore and claim that Jesus is the only sonof God
Some scholars exaggeratemore and claim that Jesus is God
But the fact is that Jesus denied his divinity:
In Mark 10:18, Luke 18:18-19, Matthew 19:17, Jesuswas asked:
“Goodteacher, whatmust I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus Said:“Why do you call me good? No one is good—exceptGodalone”. If
you want to enter life, keepthe commandments.”
There is no mention to the original sin, atonement, sin inheritance, salvation
by faith alone, or accepting Jesus as savior, but inheriting eternallife by
obedience.
That is also confirmed in Luke 10:28 “Do this and you will live.”
And in Luke 10:37 “Go and do the same.”
Mostchurches boast about the miracles of Jesus.
Jesus was not proud of miracles; he condemned those who askedhim to show
miracles in Matthew 12:39, Mark 8:12, and Luke 11:29
‘A wickedand adulterous generationasks fora sign!’
Jesus did not claim to be a God, he did not ask the disciples to worship him as
a God, he askedthem to pray to the only true God (his God and their God).
When the scribes wantedto support the doctrine of Trinity; they have added
verses like 1 John 5:7

“Forthere are three that bear recordin heaven, the Father, the Word, and
the Holy Ghost:and these three are one”
The bible footnotes explain that verse 1 John 5:7 was not in the original old
scriptures.
The bible footnotes show many other additions in King James Versionwhich
were added to support the claims of trinity and which were not in the old
scripture; examples are:
In I John 4:3 ‘CHRIST is come in the flesh’ is an addition
In Matthew 8:2, 9:18, 15:25, 18:26, 20:20, Mark 5:6 the word ‘bow down' was
changedto ‘worshiped’.
Jesus referredto himself as “sonof man”. Jesus was notall-knowledgeable
and he prayed to GOD, so this is enough to say that he wasn’tGod nor did
God come down to earth to be Jesus.
Jesus said, “And this is life eternal, that they might know You the only true
God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.” John 17:3
Jesus saidthat he does not know everything; he said that only God knows
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor
the Son, but only the Father Mark 13:32
Jesus saidthat he is not equal to God
“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is
just; because I seek notmine own will, but the will of the Father which hath
sent me.” John 5:30
Jesus said, “The Fatheris greaterthan I.” John 14:28
“Jesus answeredthem, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent
me.” John 7:16
Jesus prayed to God as written in Mark 1:35, Luke 5:16, John 17:11, Matthew
26:39, Luke 10:21, Luke 22:44

“my Father and your Father; my God and your God” John 20:17
The disciples did not pray to Jesus, they prayed to the God and Father of
Jesus
“Blessedbe the God and Fatherof our Lord Jesus Christ…” 1 Peter1:3
Jesus introduced himself as a Prophet and people acceptedhim as a prophet,
not as a God in Matthew 13:57, John 9:17, Matthew 21:11, Luke 7:16, Luke
24:19, John 6:14, Matthew 14:5, Matthew 21:46, John 7:40-41, and in
Matthew 24:36
In John 17:6-8 and John 13:3 Jesus explainedthat God has given powerand
authority, he did not own it
John 12:49 For I have not spokenof myself; but the Fatherwhich sentme, he
gave me a commandment, what I should say
John 14:24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These
words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me
In Matthew 19:16-17 andLuke 18:19 Jesus denied being goodin the sense
that God is good.
‘Why do you call me good? No one is goodexcept God alone.’
Jesus is called a “Man” many times in the Bible of John 8:40, Acts 17:31,
Matthew 27:54, Luke 23:47, Mark 15:39
‘a man who has told you the truth’
The disciples have introduced Jesus as a “Man” in Acts 2:22 and Acts 2:23
Mostchurches do not teach the true teachings like Matthew 10:8
‘Freely you have received; freely give’; they teachthat it is o.k. to reap the
financial gifts in exchange of the spiritual gifts and teachthe attractive ones
‘And those he predestined, he also called;those he called, he also justified;
those he justified, he also glorified’ Romans 8:30

They try to make people feelhappy by such attractive teachings in order to
receive more donations.
“If we have sownspiritual seedamong you, is it too much if we reap a
material harvest from you?” 1 Corinthians 9:11.
most churches do not follow the strict teachings which urge us to obey God as
taught by Jesus in Matthew 22:35-40, Luke 10:25-28, Mark 12:28-34, but they
prefer the attractive teachings of Paul like
‘We are saved by grace through faith apart from works’ - Ephesians 2:8-9
‘Even when we were dead in sins, we are savedby grace’ - Ephesians 2:5
‘A man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law’ - Romans 3:28
‘A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith’ - Galatians 2:16
‘For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse’ - Galatians 3:10
Mostchurches do not follow the strict teachings like If your eye causes you to
stumble, pluck it out and throw it awaywhich is taught by Jesus in Matthew
18:9, Matthew 5:29 and Mark 9:47, but they prefer the attractive teachings of
Paul like:
‘God has chosenus before the foundations of the world’ - Ephesians 1:4
‘God hath from the beginning chosenyou to salvation’ - 2 Thessalonians2:13
‘For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation’ - 1
Thessalonians 5:9
‘But let me revealto you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all
be transformed!’ 1 Corinthians 15:51
‘God has savedus and called us’ - 2 Timothy 1:9
‘we have been justified through faith’ - Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9
Mostchurches believe that Jesus deathwas necessaryfor the forgiveness of
sins.

But Jesus, like all other prophets, taught that we canearn salvation by
obedience, repentance, andgood deeds to help others.
No sacrifice is necessaryfor salvation.
No bloodshed is necessaryfor salvation.
No savior should die for the salvationof others;everyone is responsible for his
own salvation.
Jesus has confirmed the same in Matthew 18:21-35, 6:14-15,Mark 11:25-26,
Matthew 25:31-45, Luke 15:11-32 , and Luke 6:36-37
When the scribes wantedto support the doctrine of atonement, they have
added verses like Matthew 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that
which was lost
The bible footnotes explain that verse Matthew 18:11 was not in the original
old scriptures
Hebrews 9:22 “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” is a
misunderstanding of verse Leviticus 17:11 which is not about atonement but is
about dietary laws. God has clarified that blood in meat is not good for health;
that clarificationwas necessaryto the people who do not have advanced
medical tools to know that eating the meat with the blood still in it is bad for
health
The true word of God is not what is written by the unknown writer of
Hebrews;it is what has been taught by Moses, Jesus andthe Prophets who
taught the forgiveness is possible by obedience, repentance, andprayers
Proverbs 16:6 teaches that “In mercy and truth atonementis provided for
iniquity.”
Psalm69:30-31 teachthat praise worship is better than sacrifice
2 Chronicles 7:14 teaches thatforgiveness is obtainable without blood
sacrifice

‘If my people who are calledby my name will humble themselves, and pray
and seek my face, and turn from their wickedways, then I will hear from
heaven, and will forgive their sin’
Jonah3 teach that people are forgiven when they repented and fasted, without
offering any sacrifice andwithout shedding any blood
Proverbs 17:15 states:
‘He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, both of
them alike are an abomination unto God’
That should be consideredas a warning to the teachers who promise free
salvationto the sinners and who teach that the innocent has been punished on
behalf of the sinners
Jesus taught the parable of The ProdigalSon in Luke 15:11-32 to highlight the
importance of obedience and repentance as the main prerequisites for
salvation
That is the core Christianity teaching as taught in Matthew 7:21 Not every
one that saidto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but
he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven
Jesus has confirmed the teachings of the Old Testimony ‘in repentance and
obedience is your salvation’as taught in Isaiah 30:15
In Matthew 25:31-45 Jesusdescribedthe final judgment as being basedon
goodworks;he clarified that those who obey the law will be saved
Salvationis not basedsolely on belief and nothing else;salvationis not
granted to those who merely profess acceptance ofJesus without performing
kind or compassionate deeds
In Luke 13:3 and 13:5, Jesus taught that repentance is necessaryfor salvation
But unless you repent, you too will all perish
Mark 12:33 teaches:And to love one’s neighbor as himself, is much more than
all burnt offerings and sacrifices

What Jesus taught here is not different from the wisdomtaught by the old
testimony Hosea 6:6
‘For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, And the knowledge ofGod more than
burnt offerings’
That verse teaches us that forgiveness is possible by repentance and
obedience;no sacrifice is necessary
Matthew 9:13 teaches that Jesus came to call the sinner to repentance
‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice, forI came not to call the righteous, but
sinners to repentance’
119 views
Radz C. Brown (Rose), I am a Christian. I follow Christ.
Answered Apr 13, 2016 · Author has 107 answers and100k answerviews
A.
The Fatheris God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God
B.
There is only one God
At first, it seems that A and B are contradictorybut it is not since the
definition of the word 'God' ("the state of being God, both in title and in
nature") is predicated to all of the three persons. Eachofthe three persons

are fully God(not half gods).The God-hoodthey equally share is numerically
one.
A.
The Fatheris God(divine identity and nature)
The Son is God (divine identity and nature)
The Holy Spirit is God (divine identity and nature)
B.
There is only one God (singular divine identity and nature)
Therefore, the Trinity is a logicalparadox, that is, it seems contradictoryyet it
is true.
Brother Mark
Answered Apr 24, 2016
This is a goodexample as to why so many Christian theologians have the need
to become involved in the study of philosophy. You see, with something like
philosophy, you can actually try to make an argument that something can be
separate and different from but still somehow the exact same thing as
something else, as they sit around talking about how light is both a wave and a
particle, or how an electroncan be found at either of two points around an
atom. Let's make a note of how any such example is still talking about what is
acknowledgedas the same thing and not something different. We would not
say as an example that we are talking about two different electrons and that
they are both the same and different, it's still referred to as the same electron.

"God" cantheoretically be at two places at once, but would still be the same
"God". Notboth the same, and different. Even if he dressedup and talked
differently.
In the end both common sense and philosophy fail them.
That certainly won't stopmost from believing whateverthey wish and trying
to make some sortof sense ofit.
103 views
Park Griffin
Answered Apr 11, 2016 · Author has 132 answers and21.1k answerviews
THE ELEVENTH COUNCILOF TOLEDO
Symbol Of Faith (675)
[This small localCouncil, attended by only 17 bishops, has little significance
today except for the beautiful confessionoffaith which was recited at its
opening. The official value of this document consists in the fact that in
subsequent centuries it was kept in highest regard and considereda genuine
expressionof the Trinitarian faith; it is one of the important formulas of
doctrine. In fact, hardly anywhere is the reflection of the early Church on
the Trinitarian mystery and on Christ expressedwith such precision and
acumen as in this Creed which sums up the tradition of the earlier Councils
and patristic theologyof the West.]

[From Neuner and Dupuis; The Christian Faith in the Doctrinal Documents
of the Catholic Church, (New York; Alba House, 1982), pp. 102-106.
Numbers refer to Neuner-Dupuis ref. Nos., numbers in brackets to The
Denzinger Schoenmetzerequivalents]
(The divine Trinity)
308 [525]We confess and believe that the holy and ineffable Trinity, Father,
Son and Holy Spirit, is one God by nature, of one substance, ofone nature as
also of one majesty and power.
(The Father)
And we profess that the Father is not begotten, not created, but unbegotten.
For He Himself, from whom the Son has receivedHis birth and the Holy
Spirit His procession, has His origin from no one. He is therefore the source
and origin of the whole Godhead. He Himself is the Father of His own
essence, who in an ineffable way has begottenthe Son from His ineffable
substance. Yet He did not begetsomething different (aliud) from what He
Himself is: God has begottenGod, light has begotten light. From Him,
therefore, is "all fatherhood in heaven and on earth" (cf. Eph. 3.15 Vulg.).
(The Son)
309 [526]We also confess that the Son was born, but not made, from the
substance of the Father, without beginning, before all ages,for at no time
did the Father exist without the Son, nor the Son without the Father. Yet the
Father is not from the Son, as the Son is from the Father, because the Father
was not generatedby the Son but the Son by the Father. The Son, therefore,
is God from the Father, and the Father is God, but not from the son. He is
indeed the Father of the Son, not God from the Son; but the latter is the Son
of the Fatherand God from the Father. Yet in all things the Son is equal to
God the Father, for He has never begun nor ceasedto be born. We also
believe that He is of one substance with the Father; wherefore He is called
homoousios with the Father, that is of the same being as the Father, for
homos in Greek means 'one' and ousia means 'being', and joined together

they mean 'one in being'. We must believe that the Son is begottenor born
not from nothing or from any other substance, but from the womb of the
Father, that is from His substance. Therefore the Father is eternal, and the
Son is also eternal. If He was always Father, He always had a Son, whose
Father He was, and therefore we confess that the Son was born from the
Father without beginning. We do not call the same Sonof God a part of a
divided nature,[1]becauseHe was generated from the Father, but we assert
that the perfect Father has begottenthe perfect Son, without diminution or
division, for it pertains to the Godheadalone not to have an unequal Son.
This Son of God is also Son by nature, not by adoption; of Him we must also
believe that God the Father begotHim neither by an act of will nor out of
necessity, forin God there is no necessitynor does will precede wisdom.
[1] f. Vigilius Thaps., ContraArianos, Sabellianos etphotinianos dialogus, 11,
13.
(The Holy Spirit)
310 [527]We also believe that the Holy Spirit, the third person in the Trinity,
is God, one and equal with God the Fatherand the Son, of one substance
and of one nature, not, however, begottennor createdbut proceeding from
both, and that He is the Spirit of both. C)f this Holy Spirit, we also believe
that He is neither unbegotten nor begotten, for if we calledHim unbegotten
we would asserttwo Fathers, or if begotten, we would appearto preach two
Sons. Yet He is calledthe Spirit not of the Fatheralone, nor of the Son
alone, but of both Fatherand Son. ForHe does not proceedfrom the Father
to the Son, nor from the Sonto sanctifycreatures, but He is shownto have
proceededfrom both at once, because He is known as the love or the sanctity
of both. Hence we believe that the Holy Spirit is sent by both, as the Son is
sent by the Father. But He is not less than the Father and the Son, in the
way in which the Son, on accountof the body which He has assumed,
testifies that He is less than the Fatherand the Holy Spirit.
(The oneness in the Trinity)
311 [528]This is the way of speaking aboutthe Holy Trinity as it has been
handed down: one must not callit or believe it to be threefold, but Trinity.

Nor canit properly be said that in the one God there is the Trinity, but the
one God is the Trinity. In the relative names of the persons the Father is
related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While
they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one
nature or substance. Although we profess three persons, we do not profess
three substances, but one substance and three persons. For the Father is
Father not with respectto Himself but to the Son, and the Son is Son not to
Himself but in relation to the Father;and likewise the Holy Spirit is not
referred to Himself but is related to the Father and the Son, inasmuch as He
is calledthe Spirit of the Father and the Son. So when we say'God', this
does not express a relationship to another, as of the Father to the Son or of
the Sonto the Father or of the Holy Spirit to the Father and the Son, but
'God' refers to Himself only.
312 [529]For, if we are askedabout the single persons, we must confess that
eachis God. Therefore, we saythat the Father is God, the Son is God, the
Holy Spirit is God' eachone distinctly; yet there are not three gods, but one
God. Similarly, we say that the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the
Holy Spirit is almighty, eachone distinctly; yet there are not three almighty
ones, but one Almighty, as we profess one light and one principle. Hence we
confess and believe that eachperson distinctly is fully God, and the three
persons togetherare one God. Theirs is an undivided and equal Godhead,
majesty and power, which is neither diminished in the single persons nor
increasedin the three. For it is not less wheneachperson is called God
separately, nor is it greaterwhen all three persons are calledone God.
313 [530]This Holy Trinity, which is the one true God, is not without number;
yet it is not comprised by number, because in the relationships of the
persons there appears number, but in the substance of the Godhead nothing
is comprised that could be counted. Therefore they imply number only in so
far as they are mutually related, but they lack number in so far as they are
by themselves (ad se). For this Holy Trinity has so much one name referring
to its nature that it cannot be used in the plural with relation to the three
persons. This then is, in our faith, the meaning of the saying in Holy
Scripture: "Greatis our Lord, abundant in power, and of His wisdom there
is no number" (Ps. 147 (146)5 Vulg.).

(The Trinity in the oneness)
314 [530]However, though we have said that these three persons are one God,
we are not allowedto saythat the same one is the Father who is the Son, or
that He is the Son who is the Father, or that He who is the Holy Spirit is
either the Fatheror the Son. For He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is
the SonHe who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit He who is the Father or
the Son, even though the Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which
the Fatheris, the Fatherand the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, that is
one God by nature. For, when we say: He who is the Father is not the Son, we
refer to the distinction of persons;but when we say: the Fatheris that which
the Sonis, the Sonthat which the Father is, and the Holy Spirit that which
the Fatheris and the Sonis, this clearly refers to the nature or substance,
whereby God exists since in substance they are one; for we distinguish the
persons, but we do not divide the Godhead.
[531]Hence, we recognisethe Trinity in the distinction of persons and we
profess the unity on accountof the nature or substance. Thus, the three are
one by nature, not as person.
(The undivided Trinity)
315 [531]Neverthelessthese three persons are not to be consideredseparable
since, according to our belief, none of them everexisted or acted before
another, after another, without another. Forthey are inseparable both in
what they are and in what they do, because, according to our faith, between
the Fatherwho generates andthe Son who is generatedorthe Holy Spirit
who proceeds, there has not been an interval of time in which the one who
generates wouldprecede the one who is generated, orthere would be no
begottenone to Him who begets, orthe Holy Spirit in His proceeding would
appear later than Fatheror Son. For this reasonwe profess and believe that
this Trinity is inseparable and distinct (inconfusa). We say, therefore, of
these three persons, as our forefathers defined it, that they should be
acknowledged, notseparated. Forif we listen to what Holy Scripture says
about Wisdom: "She is a reflectionof eternal light" (Wis. 7.26), we see that,
as the reflectionbelongs inseparably to the light, so too, according to our

confession, the Son cannotbe separatedfrom the Father. Therefore, neither
do we confuse these three persons whose nature is one and inseparable, nor do
we preach that they are in any way separable.
316 [532]The Holy Trinity itself has indeed deigned clearlyto reveal it to us:
in these names by which He wanted the single persons to be known, it is
impossible to understand one personwithout the other; one cannotconceive
of the Fatherwithout the Son, nor can the Son be found without the Father.
Indeed, the very relationship expressed in the personalnames forbids us to
separate the persons, for, though it does not name them together, it implies
them. No one can hear any one of these names without necessarily
understanding also the other. While then these Three are One and this One
Three, eachof the persons retains His own characteristics:The Fatherhas
eternity without birth; the Sonhas eternity with birth; the Holy Spirit has
processionwithout birth with eternity.
459 views
JasonHolloway, studied jesus for 10 years without religion
Answered Mar14, 2016 · Author has 1k answers and 57.8k answerviews
Oh my.well ive seenthe religious points of view but they totally wrong they
dont have a clue
ok here goes
abraham father
jesus son
mohammad the holy spirit or knowledge ofboth

This is the truth and shownwith extracts from the bible
dont listen to the.religious they cant read or think
proof
genesis 3
god clearlysays he kicks man out of eden never to return and adam calls eve
mother of all living
but they believe hes invisible and watching
revelation tells us that a new earth with a heaven and earth is where we dwell
but they saywe goto heaven
they Say jesus was godbut jesus said he was man
what i say is fact
jesus states anyone after him is a false messiahso then jesus cant return
because he will be after himself
im not athiest im not any religion im not science i was bestowedby god to
judge mankind and well your screwed
42 views
Austin Lewis
Answered Dec 1, 2016 · Author has 4.1k answers and889.3k answerviews
Did you know, according to science, there s a species oflizard where they are
all the same? Since the daughter lizard is a clone of the mother lizard, they

are equal in every way, even DNA. So they re two different, but they re the
same. But further yet, unicellular beings. Each time a cellreproduces, the
daughter cell, not only is the same as the mother cell, but is also designedand
programmed to do the same as the mother cell. Yet, both cells work together.
They are millions, but they are one organ. This is christian scientific
philosophy. Where philosophy, science andchristianity agree.
78 views
Jecko Lone
Answered Aug 3, 2015
Minime.
The Holy Trinity is difficult to understand logicallyin too greatof detail since
it is unlike anything we can directly observe or know through natural reason
alone. But this being said, natural reasoncantell us certain things about the
idea of a Trinity, and can help us to understand certain aspects ofit. A
common misrepresentationof the Trinity is in the portrayal of it as 'three
persons with one essence',whenthe Trinity should be thought of as a
threefold personality rather than as 'three persons'. We can't place too much
stress on the numbers involved in the doctrine, since they are to a certain
degree irrelevant to the mystery of the doctrine itself. If you are looking for
astute and logicalunderstanding of the Trinity I suggestreading Thomas
Aquinas.
89 views

JavedKaleem, An avid reader and expert in comparative Religions!
Answered Feb12, 2015 · Author has 1.4k answersand 758.4kanswerviews
God by definition cannothave sons or daughters. He also doesn't change His
tradition. But trinity fails both these tests. If God createdHis own son, then
He concededthat one day His rule will pass on to His son. So humans will be
confusedwhom to pray, the father or the son?
Islam says God has no son or daughter and He doesn'tindulge in sex. So Allah
is the One and Only Ruler of the universe. His grip on earth and heaven is
strong, so one must ALWAYS worship Him ALONE. Which makes sense!
Dan Wolfe, dansatribe
It is not a paradox, it is the introduction of Platonism, by the early gentile
converts.
The premise written in the Bible, itself, is that Jesus was the prophet promised
by Moses [Deuteronomy18], whom G-d would put His Words in the prophet's
mouth (written as the Israelites not wanting to hear G-d's voice after what
happened at Horeb), which would make Jesus and G-d one, in the aspectthat
G-d's Words were coming out of Jesus's mouth.

Many of the early gentile converts brought their pre-conversionideologies
with them.
If you look at 1 John 5:6-8, you will see the precursor to the introduction of
Plato's forms into Christianity. There is a "trinity" of G-d (Father, Word,
Holy Ghost) and a "trinity" for Jesus (spirit, water, blood). Current
apologists willtry to argue that this passagewas changed in the second
millennium, of Christianity, but it is referencedby Priscillianof Avila in 380
C.E. (around the time the Bible was canonized). The current redefinition
reassigns Jesus as the "Word".
The major argument for Jesus being the Word [over the Torah principle of
having the Word come through his mouth] is John 1:1-5. If you translate the
word "autos", it refers back to the noun "Logos".Whereveryou read the
interjection of the word "he" or "him", replace it with the noun [and article]
"the Word". It describes the Words that G-d used to create and was going to
put in the prophet's mouth.
So, if you ever have been confusedabout the monotheism of Judaism and the
interpretation of the Trinity, you canthank the early church fathers, who
carried (and often referenced)precepts of Greek [Hellenistic] philosophers
from their culture and pre-conversionideologies.
Vincent Cheok, JesuitCatholic. Retiredlawyer. Obsessedwith the Gospels at
University days.
Updated Jan 14, 2018 · Author has 508 answers and 1m answerviews
The Holy Trinity is an expressionoutside the Gospels.

It is a Chuch doctrine explaining Christian Faith.
It is explained as God 'appearing' (as in 'espoused')in the Gospels in three
different persons or perhaps a better term is 'spiritual nature' - (1) God (2)
Jesus (3) the Holy Spirit.
In soteriologicalterms it is more practical to explain that God cannot be seen,
Jesus has been, and the Spirit Advocate is the one carrying on Jesus'work on
Earth until Judgment Day.
Vincent Cheok
JasonPreston, I believe the floor will be there when I hop out of bed.
Answered May 21, 2015 ·Author has 1.1k answers and2.3m answerviews
I am both a person, and a colonyof 10^14 cells 90%of which are not even
human. I am, in addition, a swarm of atoms, and also a shape and motion and
range of potential motions maintained by a rotating mix of atoms coming into
me, being part of me, then leaving me. I am eachof these things, and yet each
of them are distinctly not eachother. Is that "illogical"?
1k views · View 18 Upvoters
Edward Byron, Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
(the Mormons)

I don't believe in paradox. If you encounter something that looks like a
paradox there is something wrong with your premises, your logic, or both.
The notion that there are 3 of them and at the same time there is only 1 makes
no sense to me. I am a mathematician, and if we acceptthe idea that 3=1 then
logicallyour entire system of mathematics collapses in to total chaos, as it can
then be proven that every number equals every other number.
The alternate notion, which does make sense to me is that they are three
separate individuals so perfectly united in doctrine and purpose that they act
as one.
Muhammad Qurayshi
Answered May 29, 2016
The Trinity is not a paradox. It is simply paganismand idolatry hiding behind
monotheism.
According to the Tanakhmonotheism is knowing that God is one and there is
one God. Moreover, that God is not a man (i.e., not part of humanity).
To claim that Godis three and there is one God. Moreover, that God is a man
(i.e., being part of humanity) is to violate the Tanakh. This is paganismand
idolatry. It is no paradox.

Hans-Christian Heinz, happy atheistall my life
Regardlessofit's actualtruth, it's a dogma that causes internalinconsistencies
in the memeplex it belongs to. So yeah - it's paradoxical.
MichaelKing
Answered Feb12, 2015
It could be considereda paradox when accessing itfrom a singular
perspective, seeing it multidimensionally remedies that conundrum through.
75 views
Mark Werner, As an atheist, I'm a student of religion from an academic
standpoint.
Answered Mar6, 2016 · Author has 24.8k answers and24.5manswerviews

The officialCatholic line when I was a little Catholic kid in the 50s was that
the Trinity was a "MysteryOf Faith". You were required to believe it even if
you did not understand it.
So far as I know, that's the case to this day.
This has not stopped Catholic apologists from spending enormous energy
attempting to explain the Trinity, writing many dozens of books, articles,and
papers attempting to do just that.
All unsuccessfully, it remains one of the most counter-intuitive and
contradictory ideas in all of religionand is divisive even among Christian
denominations.
Mark Paxton
Answered Jun 13, 2018
Logicallydeciphering the trinity is actually extremely simple!
The trinity violates the laws of mathematics and logic that God created.
Therefore, the one true God cannot be the author of the trinity.
This is why its so difficult to understand.
Got proof?

Decipheredand Exposed!
10 Felony Forgeries againstJesus Christin the bible
https://www.youtube.com/channel/...
67 views · View Sharers
Matt Wrotny, works atPunch BowlSocial-Detroit
The doctrine of the Trinity is a divine mystery, it cannotbe fully graspedby a
merely human mind. It can be explained only by way of analogy, and even this
is a flawed method.
God (singular) is ONE being and yet simultaneously three coeternal,
coexistent, codependentpersons. No human mind could have imagined
something like the trinity, because it completely defies our understanding.
Our knowledge ofthis doctrine comes only by way of divine revelation.
233 views
James Quek, A ReligiouslyIrreligious and Joyfully Pessimistic "Unchurcher"
Answered May 20, 2015 ·Author has 506 answers and165.7k answerviews

No, it's not a paradox; it's a logicallyimpossible doctrine resulting from vain
philosophical speculationabout the nature of God. So, of course it is
impossible to understand it logically. Nobody, Christians or otherwise, can
understand it; only Christians feel compelledto acceptit blindly.
James Quek's answerto As much as I want to, I can't understand the Trinity.
Why?
Precious Chilaga, I am a trained theologian, a graduate theologianwith a
BachelorofDivinity
we can understand the Doctrine of the trinity within the limits of what has
been revealedto us, but the Holy Trinity becomes completedbecause ofare
extreme rationalism over the matter, therefore understanding this subject
requires a biblical appraoachand also recocognitionthat were mortal such
that we will never understand everythng about God
53 views

Clanton Sim, Ph.D Philosophy & Economics, University of California, Irvine
(2019)
Answered Feb17, 2019 · Author has 996 answers and 1.1m answerviews
Being adverse to connotations associatedwith polytheism, the Council of
Nicaea 362 determinedthat Jesus was same substance, in lieu of like
substance, thus maintaining preferred monotheistic tenets while accounting
for the seemingly contradictoryexistence and validity of the holy trinity.
18 views
Mike Rumore, I believe in all gods equally.
Answered Feb13, 2015 · Author has 2.5k answersand 1m answerviews
Being a paradox does not mean it can not be understood logically. Being a
paradox means it is a contradictionand impossible.
Trinity is a bullshit conceptconcoctedto baffle followers and fill them with
awe.
Thomas Musselman

All assertionsaboutthe nature of God are beyond proof, and, when carefully
examined are going to break down as being either incoherent or illogical. So,
yes. They either have emotionaltruth for you or not; I promise you will be
wasting your time if you anticipate evaluating them as you would assertions
from a proof subject to classicallogic rules.
Leonardo Shoemaker
The Trinity Paradox.
1. There is only one God.
2. This one God is three Persons.
To worship the one God is to worship the three Persons equallyand
simultaneity.
3. The three Persons are independent of eachother.

a. The 1st Person, the Father, is not the 2nd Person, the Son, and is not the
3rd Person, the Spirit.
b. The 2nd Person, the Son, is not the 3rd Person, the Spirit.
Think of God as the human brain, and think of the three Persons as three
centers of conciseness.
1 view
Alfred W Croucher, No interest in religionbut fascinatedby theology.
Yes. St. Augustine said so and he was a venerable doctor of the church. It's an
article of faith, it's a traditional belief of the church and you just have to live
with it. Augustine was a neo-Platonistand felt all aspects ofChristianity
could be subjectto criticalanalysis and be shown to be rational and scientific.
He gave up on the Trinity however.
JasonBrunson, I am a C... I am a Ch... I am Christian

Answered Sep25, 2015 · Author has 58 answers and 18.9k answerviews
The best answerI have heard to this is that God is 'one "What" and three
"Who's'
This is not logicallyimpossible, saying God is both one what and 3 what's at
the same time would be logicallyimpossible. So I would not say it is a
paradox. It is something that humans can not currently graspsince we have
nothing in our experience to compare it to.
And with God being... well, God, this shouldn't surprise us.
CameronBolten, Keep at it soldier.
There are 3 parts to you just like the trinity
Your physical body (Jesus)
Your intangible conscience (God the spirit )
And your intangible personality( God the father )

Stephen Frantz, Christian Pastor, NuclearPhysicist
Yes, the Trinity is a paradox. It cannotbe understood logically.
In fact, almostany attempt to explain it logicallybrings one into heresy.
Perhaps God is too complicatedto be understood by mere humans.
(We don't even understand other humans!)
Johnnie Lockett, Ambassadorfor Christ for over 30 years
Yes, if paradox is a euphemism for lie.
JosephBoyle

Answered Feb13, 2015 · Author has 29.9k answers and22.1manswerviews
While you could try to understand it logically, you should know the
Chalcedonianconsensus wasa political compromise.
134 views
RelatedQuestions
How do you explain the paradox of the Trinity?
What is the best analogyof the Holy Trinity?
Do you believe that the Holy Trinity is also a logicalspiritual systemdecreed
by God?
Is there a logicalsolution to the "GodParadox"?
How best do we explain the Trinity in Christianity?
How does the Holy Trinity relate to numinous experience?
Is there a hierarchy to the Holy Trinity?
Why is logic never illogicalif there is a paradox?
Why do logicalparadoxes make so much sense?
How does logic representa paradox?
https://www.quora.com/
September 3, 2012 by Carole Boshart
The Holy Spirit – a Spiritual Paradox

“But people who aren’t Christians can’t understand these truths from God’s
Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can
understand what the Spirit means. “ ( 1 Corinthians 2:14)
It may sound like what the writer of 1 Corinthians is saying is that in order to
understand the Spirit you alreadyhave to have the Spirit. But that is not quite
accurate. Firstmust come the desire to hear the Spirit. Only when you are
open to the experience does it start!
Let me use a common metaphor to explain this. Listening to the Spirit is a lot
like having a sound device turned on and having it on the lowestvolume – it is
the Spirit that turns on that volume as a consequence ofa believer’s faith and
desire to know God/Christ deeper. The believer knows there is sound there,
but can’t quite make it out what is being said. Over time and experience the
volume knob/level/button is activatedso the sounds of the Spirit become
louder. How this happens is a totally different conversation, but it does
happen.
Slowly at first (usually) the words of the Spirit become clearerand more
readily understood. This slow comprehensionis a partnership betweenthe
believer and the Spirit – the believer bringing desire for spiritual wisdom and
faith, and the Spirit providing increasing sound and greatercomprehension.
It cannot happen without both. It is from this perspective that I think the
writer of 1 Corinthians is speaking, that both believer and Spirit are working
together.
The Spirit is not “foolish” but we believers who talk about listening to the
Spirit and doing as the Spirit asks maylook foolish, and probably do to those
not in partnership with the Spirit. And desiring to hear the Spirit may be
foolishness too. Manythings about Christianity are foolish to those who are
not within that belief system.
Not every Christian has the same experience of the Spirit. This is something
the writer of 1 Corinthians does not give much attention to, and something
that the Confessiondoes not saymuch too. But I tell you gentle reader that the
Spirit is attuned to every person, nurturing their faith life and giving them
what they need to grow in faith. You can rest in that assertion.

May you gentle reader hear with continuing clarity the voice of the Spirit, and
may the Spirit guide you and nurture you all of your days. Selah!"
PRECEPTAUSTIN
Spiritual Paradoxin the Christian Life
Updated: Sat, 05/18/2019 -11:19 By admin
CHRISTIANITY IS A LIFE FILLED WITH PARADOX
A paradox is defined as a seemingly absurd or self-contradictorystatement
that is actually true. It is a statementthat contradicts itself.
In the Bible spiritual paradoxes abound and confound the secularunsaved
mind. In fact the wise of this world considerbelievers to be fools for Christ's
sake.
Paul writes that "Becausethe foolishness ofGod is wiserthan men, and the
weakness ofGod is strongerthan men. (1 Co 1:25)
Brethren, we are veritable living spiritual paradoxes in this spiritually dead
world, a world paradoxically we are IN but not OF "Forour citizenship is in
heaven, from which also we eagerlywait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ
Who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the
body of His glory, by the exertion of the powerthat He has even to subject all
things to Himself." (Php 3:20-21-note)
The wise of this world scoffand laugh at God's answers to questions like…
Do you want to live?

You must die!
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ
lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son
of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me. (Gal 2:20-note; cf 2
Co 4: 10, 11-note)
You must lose your life!
And He summoned the crowdwith His disciples, and said to them, “If anyone
wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and
follow Me. Forwhoeverwishes to save his life will lose it, but whoeverloses
his life for My sake and the gospel’s willsave it." (Mark 8:34-35)
Do you want to be strong?
You must boastabout your weaknesses!
"Mostgladly, therefore, I will rather boastabout my weaknesses, thatthe
powerof Christ may dwell in me… for when I am weak, then I am strong. (2
Co 12:9, 10-note)
Do you want to be rich?
You must become poor in spirit.
Blessedare the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 5:3-
note)
Do you want to be first?
You must be willing to be last.
And sitting down, He calledthe twelve and said to them, "If anyone wants to
be first, he shall be lastof all, and servant of all." (Mk 9:35, cp Mt 19:30, 20:8,
16, Mk 10:31, Lk 13:30)
You must be willing to be a slave of all.
Whoeverwishes to be first among you shall be slave (doulos - bondservant) of
all. (Mk 10:44)

Do you want to be exalted?
You must be willing to be brought low!
Humble (aorist imperative) yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of
God, that He may exalt you at the proper time (1 Pe 5:6-note). (cf Jas 4:6-
note, Jas 4:10-note Mt. 23:12)
Do you wish to be great?
You must be willing to become a servant.
“But it is not this wayamong you, but whoeverwishes to become greatamong
you shall be your servant." (Mk 10:43, cf Mt 23:11)
You must be willing to humble yourself as a little child
“Whoeverthen humbles himself like this little child is the greatestin the
kingdom of heaven." (Mt 18:4NET)
You must be willing to be least.
"Whoeverreceives this child in My name receives Me, andwhoever receives
Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is LEAST among all of you,
this is the one who is GREAT.” (Lk 9:48)
Do you want to rule?
You must be willing to serve.
For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give
His life a ransom for many. (Mk 10:45, cp Mk 9:35)
Do you want to be fruitful?
You must die.
Truly, truly, I sayto you, unless a grain of wheatfalls into the earth and dies,
it remains by itself alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. (Jn 12:24).

A FEW MORE SPIRITUAL PARADOXES
We become rich thru Christ's poverty (2 Cor 8:9)
We see the unseen(2 Co 4:18-note, Heb 11:27-note)
We conquer by yielding (Ro 6:16, 17, 18-note)
We find rest by taking His yoke (Mt. 11:28, 29, 30-note)
We reign by serving (Mk 10:42, 43, 44)
We are made great by becoming little (Lk 9:48)
We become wise by being fools for Christ's sake (1 Co 1:20, 21)
We find victory by glorying in our infirmities (2 Co 12:5)
Before we became followers ofChrist, we were DEAD IN our trespasses and
sins (Eph 2:1-note) but after salvation, we are ALIVE with Christ (Eph. 2:5-
note), and DEAD TO SIN (Ro 6:11-note).
We were once slaves to sin but now are free from sin, "Forwhen you were
SLAVES OF SIN, you were free in regard to righteousness. Butnow having
been FREED FROM SIN and ENSLAVED to God, you derive your benefit,
resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternallife." (Ro 6:20, 22-note)
True Freedomis not the right to do as we please, but the power to do as we
should, a freedom and power paradoxicallyfound only in enslavementto
Christ! Indeed, we are most FREE, when we are most BOUND!
We also see this paradox in our daily growth in Christ-likeness (progressive
sanctification). In Phil 2:12-note Paul charges us to "WORK OUT our
salvationin fearand trembling" and then he explains how this is even
possible, writing that "it is God (the indwelling Spirit of Christ continually)
WORKING in us, giving us the DESIRE (left to ourselves the desire of our
fallen flesh is not to please God) and the (supernatural) POWER to do what
pleases God." (Phil 2:13NLT-note)Are you learning to depend daily on the
Spirit of Jesus Who Alone can enable you to live the supernatural, abundant
life (Jn 10:10)? As Tony Evans says you need to come to the place where you
say to God, “I can’t do this on my own,” (Then) you are ready to say, “But

through Your provision (the enabling powerof the indwelling Spirit) of that
which I lack, I can go out and tear down the strongholds that are defeating
me. In Your strength, I can fulfill Your expectations for me.” You have now
invited God to do for you what you can’t do for yourself!" (from "The Battle
is the Lord's")
We see a similar paradoxicaldynamic in Paul's summary of His entire
ministry where he says "by the grace of GodI am what I am, and His grace
toward me did not prove vain; but I LABORED even more than all of them,
yet NOT I, but God Who was WORKING through me by His grace." (1 Cor
15:10-note paraphrase)
Kent Hughes explains "Unless there is death, the vast possibilities inside us
will not be released. We will shrivel and remain alone. We must die. (Ed:
compare the similar spiritual principle in Mk 8:34, 35, 36, 37, Mt 10:38, 39,
Lk 9:23, 24, 25) Those who are beginning the Christian life or are awakening
to their spiritual potential must learn that we live by dying. This has been true
in my own life." (John: That You May Believe. Preaching the Word)
The ultimate paradox is...
To live is Christ, to die is gain. (Php 1:21-note)
MY LORD JESUS CHRIST....
You are my strength when I am weak
You are the treasure that I seek
You are my all in all."
THE SPIRIT OF PARADOX PresentationMinistries
"The Holy Spirit has been warning me from city to city that chains and
hardships awaitme. I put no value on my life if only I canfinish my race." –
Acts 20:23-24

The Holy Spirit, being God, is paradoxical. The Holy Spirit gives us light to
see what we've never seenbefore. We can see into the future, receive insights
about the past, and recognize in the present greatopportunities, which we
have never noticed before. At the same time, our life in the Holy Spirit often
puts us in the position where we have no idea what will happen to us (see Acts
20:22). We see so much more, but we also see that our "so much more" is
nothing comparedto the blinding light of the mystery of God.
In the Holy Spirit, we receive not only light but life – abundant life (see Jn
10:10). The Spirit makes us more alive than ever before. Paradoxically,
however, we receive this full life by dying to self. "Continually we carry about
in our bodies the dying of Jesus, so that in our bodies the life of Jesus may also
be revealed" (2 Cor 4:10). We have life in the Spirit only because we have
death in the Spirit.
Human beings naturally fear paradoxes. Therefore,we fearmystery and the
Holy Spirit. But the Lord repeatedly commands us not to fear, and He graces
us accordingly. Jesus said:"Fearis useless.Whatis neededis trust" (Mk
5:36). Come, Holy Spirit!"
Spiritual Paradoxes
Preachedat North StreetChapel, Stamford,
on November 25, 1860, by J. C. Philpot
"As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as
chastened, and not killed; as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing;as poor, yet
making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing allthings." 2 Cor.
6:9, 10
We may wellcall our text a chain of paradoxes. Observe how eachspiritual
paradox is fastenedtogetherby a double link. In seeking therefore this

The Paradox of Pentecost

Recommended

Recommended

More Related Content

What's hot

What's hot (19)

Similar to The Paradox of Pentecost

Similar to The Paradox of Pentecost (20)

More from GLENN PEASE

More from GLENN PEASE (20)

Recently uploaded

Recently uploaded (20)

The Paradox of Pentecost