Biblical creationism and real science week 7

Biblical Creationism and Real
Science
Week 7
Todd Pencarinha
tpencarinha@comcast.net
http://www.slideshare.net/ToddPencarinha

Week 6 Review
• Previously Discussed Geological Evidence for a Young Earth
• Rock Strata support rapid deposition and no erosion
• Bent Strata – rock does not bend
• Additional Geologic Evidence for a young earth
• Too little sediment on sea floor
• Very little salt in the sea
• Fossil graveyards
• Rapidly decaying magnetic field
• Helium in radioactive rocks
• A lack of transition species/missing links

Week 7 Overview - Dinosaurs
• Evolution’s Claim about Dinosaurs
• The Biblical View about Dinosaurs
• The Evidence
• Bible – Job 40, 41, Psalm 74, 104, Gen 1, Is 27
• The Fossil Record
• Secular History
• Fossil Footprints
• Dinosaur Soft Tissues
• Dinosaur DNA
• Dinosaur Radio-Carbon Dating

How Old Are Dinosaurs?
Evolution
• Dinosaurs existed before
humans and did not coexist
• Dinosaurs died 65 million years
ago – before humans evolved
• Dinosaurs evolved into birds
Creation
• Dinosaurs were created before
humans, the flying and sea kinds
on the day before and the land
kinds on the same day
• Dinosaurs and humans coexisted
before the flood
• Dinosaurs must have been taken
onto the ark
• Not so much “coexistence” after
the flood

Job 40 - Behemoth
Job 40:15-24 (NASB)
15 "Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you; He eats grass like an ox.
16 "Behold now, his strength in his loins And his power in the muscles of his belly.
17 "He bends his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are knit together.
18 "His bones are tubes of bronze; His limbs are like bars of iron.
19 "He is the first of the ways of God; Let his maker bring near his sword.
20 "Surely the mountains bring him food, And all the beasts of the field play
there.
21 "Under the lotus plants he lies down, In the covert of the reeds and the marsh.
22 "The lotus plants cover him with shade; The willows of the brook surround
him.
23 "If a river rages, he is not alarmed; He is confident, though the Jordan rushes
to his mouth.
24 "Can anyone capture him when he is on watch, With barbs can anyone pierce
his nose?

Job 40 - Observations
Behemoth
• Land Creature
• Known to Job
• Known to have lived near the Jordan river
• Eats grass, like cattle
• Bones like tubes of bronze, limbs like iron, raging river is of no concern
to him - very powerful
• Tail like a cedar, bones like bronze
• Lived in marshy areas, lies down under lotus tree

Job 40 - Conclusions
• What was Behemoth?
• Behemoth was a term used for
large animals like cattle.
• The hippo and elephant have
commonly been suggested but
they don’t fit
• A Brachiosaurus or some similar
dinosaur fits much better
• Genesis 1 is clear evidence from
the Bible that dinosaurs lived at
the same time as humans

Job 41 - Leviathan
Job 41:1-34 (NASB)
1 "Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord?
2 "Can you put a rope in his nose Or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3 "Will he make many supplications to you, Or will he speak to you soft words?
4 "Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him for a servant forever?
5 "Will you play with him as with a bird, Or will you bind him for your maidens?
6 "Will the traders bargain over him? Will they divide him among the merchants?
7 "Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears?
8 "Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle; you will not do it again!
9 "Behold, your expectation is false; Will you be laid low even at the sight of him?
10 "No one is so fierce that he dares to arouse him; Who then is he that can stand before Me?
11 "Who has given to Me that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine.
12 "I will not keep silence concerning his limbs, Or his mighty strength, or his orderly frame.
13 "Who can strip off his outer armor? Who can come within his double mail?
14 "Who can open the doors of his face? Around his teeth there is terror.
15 "His strong scales are his pride, Shut up as with a tight seal.
16 "One is so near to another That no air can come between them.
17 "They are joined one to another; They clasp each other and cannot be separated.

Job 41 - Leviathan
Job 41:1-34 (NASB)
18 "His sneezes flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 "Out of his mouth go burning torches; Sparks of fire leap forth.
20 "Out of his nostrils smoke goes forth As from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
21 "His breath kindles coals, And a flame goes forth from his mouth.
22 "In his neck lodges strength, And dismay leaps before him.
23 "The folds of his flesh are joined together, Firm on him and immovable.
24 "His heart is as hard as a stone, Even as hard as a lower millstone.
25 "When he raises himself up, the mighty fear; Because of the crashing they are bewildered.
26 "The sword that reaches him cannot avail, Nor the spear, the dart or the javelin.
27 "He regards iron as straw, Bronze as rotten wood.
28 "The arrow cannot make him flee; Slingstones are turned into stubble for him.
29 "Clubs are regarded as stubble; He laughs at the rattling of the javelin.
30 "His underparts are like sharp potsherds; He spreads out like a threshing sledge on the mire.
31 "He makes the depths boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a jar of ointment.
32 "Behind him he makes a wake to shine; One would think the deep to be gray-haired.
33 "Nothing on earth is like him, One made without fear.
34 "He looks on everything that is high; He is king over all the sons of pride."

Job 41 - Observations
Leviathan
• Was a creature well known to Job and his friends.
• Sea creature or lives in or by the sea (vs 1,2,7, Psalm 104)
• May have wings (vs 5)
• Breathes out fire (vs 18-21)
• Note: most commentaries ignore verses 18-21. Why?
• Nothing on earth is like him (vs 33)
• Double armor, virtually impenetrable (vs 13, 16-17, 23, 30)
• Incredible strength (vs 12, 22)
• No fear in it (vs 33)
• Man’s weapons cannot hurt it (vs 26-30)

Job 41 - Conclusions
Leviathan:
• Coexisted with man
• Struck terror into the hearts of
man
• Had incredible armor
• Breathed fire
• Was commonly known
• Could Leviathan have been a the
beast that fits our current concept
of a dragon?

Psalm 74
Psalm 74:12-17 (NASB)
12 Yet God is my king from of old, Who works deeds of deliverance in the
midst of the earth.
13 You divided the sea by Your strength; You broke the heads of the sea
monsters in the waters.
14 You crushed the heads of Leviathan; You gave him as food for the
creatures of the wilderness.
15 You broke open springs and torrents; You dried up ever-flowing streams.
16 Yours is the day, Yours also is the night; You have prepared the light and
the sun.
17 You have established all the boundaries of the earth; You have made
summer and winter.

Psalm 74 - Observations
Leviathan
• Is spoken of in context with sea creatures in the water
• God crushed the heads of leviathan
• God gave leviathan as food for land creatures
• Is the author speaking of leviathan’s extinction or a mass die off
event?
• Was the author referring to an event of his lifetime or just a well
known prior event?
• Whatever event the author is referring to happened before or by the
time of Judah’s exile – (prior to ~600 BC)

Psalm 104
Psalm 104:24-26 (NASB)
24 O LORD, how many are Your works! In wisdom You have made them
all; The earth is full of Your possessions.
25 There is the sea, great and broad, In which are swarms without
number, Animals both small and great.
26 There the ships move along, And Leviathan, which You have formed
to sport in it.

Psalm 104 - Observations
• God made the great and broad sea and Leviathan to “sport” in it
• Leviathan was well know to the Israelites and the author of Psalm 104
• Leviathan would have been well known to sailors

Genesis 1 & Isaiah 27
Genesis 1:21 (NASB)
21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that
moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every
winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
• The word used in Gen 1:21 for great sea monster is “tannin”, which is
also translated as dragon, monster, and serpent
Isaiah 27:1 (NASB)
1 In that day the LORD will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, With
His fierce and great and mighty sword, Even Leviathan the twisted
serpent; And He will kill the dragon who lives in the sea.

Genesis 1 & Isaiah 27 - Observations
• The great sea monsters, including leviathan would have been created
on Day 5
• There is a biblical connection between the great sea monsters,
dragons, and Satan

Secular Evidence for Recent Existence of Dinosaurs
History of the words “Dinosaur” and “Dragon”
Secular Historic Record
The Fossil Record
Dinosaur “graveyards”
Fossil footprints
Dinosaur Soft tissues
Dinosaur DNA
Radiocarbon Dating

History of the words “Dinosaur” and “Dragon”
The term “Dinosaur”
• Dinosaur fossils were first recognized in the 19th century. In 1842, paleontologist
Richard Owen coined the term dinosaur, derived from the Greek deinos, meaning
"terrible" or "fearfully great," and sauros, meaning "lizard" or reptile.“
• Today, the term dinosaur includes various reptile species, including sea, land, and flying
creatures
The term “Dragon”
• The word dragon entered the English language in the early 13th century from Old
French dragon, which in turn comes from Latin draconem (nominative draco) meaning
"huge serpent, dragon", from the Greek word δράκων, drakon (genitive drakontos,
δράκοντος) "serpent, giant seafish". The Greek word dates to much earlier times.
• The word came to mean a creature that was “basically reptilian,” though with a variety
of possible features, such as wings, legs, claws, horns, etc.
Creatures historically called “dragon” included many different types of dinosaurs and
not just the common concept of a dragon that we have today

• There are many historic references to Dragons in different cultures
• "For using dragon's bones, first cook odorous plants; bathe the bones twice in
hot water, pound them to powder and put this in bags of gauze. Take a couple of
young swallows and, after taking out their intestines and stomach, put the bags
in the swallows and hang them over a well. After one night take the bags out of
the swallows, rub the powder and mix it into medicines for strengthening the
kidneys. The efficacy of such a medicine is as it were divine!"--Chinese medical
scholar Lei Xiao (AD 420-477)
• “In legends and folktales, dragons are magical--yet early naturalists often
treated these creatures as part of the natural world. Biologists in Europe once
wrote accounts of the behavior and habitat of dragons, along with lizards and
snakes. Chinese scholars have classified the dragon as one of the 369 animal
species with scales.”
Source: https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/mythic-creatures/dragons-creatures-of-power/natural-history-of-dragons/

• “Legend has it that long ago, the marshes near
Klagenfurt, Austria, were haunted by a
fearsome Lindwurm--a serpent-like dragon. It
devoured all the people and livestock who ventured
its way. Finally, a local ruler called on his knights to
destroy the dragon, and after many attempts it was
slain. To commemorate the event, a "dragon" skull
was placed in the town hall. In 1582, an artist
borrowed the skull--really the fossil remains of an
Ice Age woolly rhinoceros--to use as a model in
shaping a massive sculpture of the Lindwurm, which
still stands in the city today.”
• Roman scholar Pliny the Elder (AD 23-79) stated “a
dragon could strangle an elephant with its tail.”
Source: https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/mythic-creatures/dragons-creatures-of-power/natural-history-of-dragons/

• "The dragons of the mountains have scales of a golden color, and in length excel
those of the plain, and they have bushy beards, which also are of a golden hue;
and their eye is sunk deep under the eyebrow, and emits a terrible and ruthless
glance.“ --Greek scholar Philostratus (c. AD 170-245)
• Wales – “The woods round Penllyne Castle, Glamorgan, had the reputation of
being frequented by winged serpents, and these were the terror of old and
young alike.... Some of them had crests sparkling with all the colours of the
rainbow. When disturbed they glided swiftly...to their hiding places. When angry,
they flew over people’s heads, with outspread wings bright...like the features in
a peacock’s tail (as quoted in Simpson, 1980, p. 34)”
• In the 1,000 year old epic Beowulf, the hero encountered a “fearsome earth-
dragon.” It was described as a “crooked, coiled worm” that “flies through the
night, enveloped in flame,” causing men to “fear him greatly.” As the story goes,
Beowulf killed the beast, but not before its venomous bite ultimately led to his
own doom (see Simpson, pp. 28-29).

• Two well-known ancient historians documented that flying reptiles and humans
were contemporaries more than 2,000 years ago. Herodotus, respected Greek
historian who lived in approximately 450 B.C., once wrote:
• There is a place in Arabia...to which I went, on hearing of some winged serpents; and when
I arrived there, I saw bones and spines of serpents, in such quantities as it would be
impossible to describe. The form of the serpent is like that of a water-snake; but he has
wings without feathers, and as like as possible to the wings of a bat (n.d., emp. added).
• Herodotus recognized that such creatures were not birds, mammals, or insects—but
reptiles with wings.
• In the first-century A.D. the Jewish historian Josephus wrote about Moses and the Israelites
having a difficult time passing through a particular region because of the presence of flying
reptiles. When the ground was difficult to be passed over, because of the multitude of
serpents (which it produces in vast numbers...some of which ascend out of the ground
unseen, and also fly in the air, and do come upon men at unawares, and do them a
mischief)...

• “Close to the town of Bures, near Sudbury, there has lately appeared, to the
great hurt of the countryside, a dragon, vast in body, with a crested head, teeth
like a saw, and a tail, extending to an enormous length. Having slaughtered the
shepherd of a flock, it devoured many sheep. There came forth in order to shoot
at him with arrows the workmen of the lord on whose estate he had concealed
himself, being Sir Richard de Waldegrave, Knight; but the dragon’s body,
although struck by the archers, remained unhurt, for the arrows bounced off his
back as if it were iron or hard rock. Those arrows that fell upon the spine of his
back gave out as they struck it a ringing of tinkling sound, just as if they had hit a
brazen plate, and then flew away off by reason of the hide of this great beast
being impenetrable. Thereupon, in order to destroy him, all the country people
around were summoned. But when the dragon saw that he was again about to
be assailed with arrows, he fled into a marsh or mere and there hid himself
among the long reeds, and was no more seen (p. 60, emp. added).”

• Time-Life reported that an ancient Chinese emperor of the Sung
Dynasty (c. A.D. 1000-1300) raised a dragon in his palace (Dragons...,
1984, p. 57).
• According to a chronicle in Canterbury Cathedral, around A.D. 1449,
Englishmen reported seeing “two fire-breathing dragons engaged in a
fierce, hour-long struggle.” One was black, while the other was “reddish
and spotted” (Folklore..., 1973, p. 241).
• Jacqueline Simpson in her book British Dragons brings to light several
dragon legends, including one that in 1866 was reported to have
originally occurred in 1405.
Source: https://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9&article=743

The Fossil Record - Why Don’t we find Human
& Dinosaur Fossils together?
• We do. Several examples of dinosaur graveyards from last week.
• However, relatively few human bones are found with dinosaur bones.
Why?
• The fossil record itself is relatively small with relatively few dinosaurs bones
having been fully excavated, recovered and studied
• Humans tend to bury or burn their dead
• Human fossils, outside of graves & tombs are more rare than dinosaurs
• Most dinosaur fossils have been found in North America, with many also in
Europe, China and Argentina
• Based on the conditions needed to create fossils (eg. Rapid burial), most fossils
would have been created during the flood
• The bible tells us humans did not spread throughout the earth until after the
flood and after Babel

Dinosaur Graveyards
Ashley Beds, South Carolina
• An enormous phosphate graveyard that contains mixed
remains of man with land and sea animals, notably
dinosaurs, pleisosaurs, whales, sharks, rhinos, horses,
mastodons, mammoths, porpoises, elephants, deer,
pigs, dogs, and sheep.
• This catalogue of fossils from the phosphate beds was
given in the records of Major Edward Willis who
displayed them at multiple expositions (Willis, “Fossils
and Phosphate Specimens,” 1881.)
• Professor F.S. Holmes (paleontologist and curator of
the College of Charleston’s Natural History Museum)
described the fossil graveyard in a report to the
Academy of Natural Sciences: “Remains of the hog,
the horse and other animals of recent date, together
with human bones mingled with the bones of the
mastodon and extinct gigantic lizards.”
Source:http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/fossils/graveyards/

Fossil Footprint
• Fossil footprints are automatically presumed
false because of the evolutionary model bias
• If confirmed, fossil footprints holding both
human and dinosaur tracks or having human
prints in confirmed early strata would verify
coexistence of humans and dinosaurs
• Paluxy tracks may be from another bipedal
animal
• Zapata tracks are in extremely hard rock
• Delk track has been criticized, but strong
arguments continue
• Meister print appears to be of a shoed
person and contains a trilobite fossil
Zapata track
Delk track
Meister Prints
Paluxy Tracks

Dinosaur Original Soft Tissues
• “Original soft tissues” are those in their original form, whereas “soft
tissues” could also include the breakdown of original soft tissues into
other forms
• How would those who defend evolution and billions of year respond if
original soft tissues were discovered in Dinosaurs?
• Original Soft tissues should only last a about 100,000 years under the
best circumstances, but typically much, much less
• Original soft tissues simply cannot last tens of millions of years,
regardless of the creative pseudo-science created to argue that story
• When did scientists first find original soft tissues in dinosaurs?

• Original soft tissues from fossils were first
found and published in 1977
• In 1992 original soft tissues were discovered in
a Seismosaur fossil, supposedly 150 million
years old
• Paleontologist Mary Schweitzer’s work has
garnered great attention – specifically because
she is a fervent advocate of evolution
• Had Schweitzer been a creationist, her findings
would have been instantly dismissed
• Original Soft Tissues are a huge problem for
evolutionists

Dinosaur DNA
• Report in the journal Bone identified vertebrate-specific proteins
named “actin” and “PHEX” and described DNA in the dinosaur cells.
• Secular scientists asserting that bacteria produced the DNA after
creeping into the bone sometime after the creatures were buried.
• Two different DNA-sensitive stains were applied to the osteocytes.
Both stains visualized DNA in a central location inside the long-dead
dinosaur cells—where the cell’s nucleus should be.
• Scientists also applied an antibody that binds to a DNA-packaging
protein called histone H4, which is not produced by bacteria
• The antibody bound its target, identifying yet another kind of original
vertebrate protein.
• The binding occurred in the same nucleus-like central region within
the cells.
Years
% of DNA
Remaining
- 100.0%
521 50.0%
1,042 25.0%
1,563 12.5%
2,084 6.3%
2,605 3.1%
3,126 1.6%
3,647 0.8%
4,168 0.4%
4,689 0.2%
5,210 0.1%
5,731 0.0%

Dinosaur DNA
• The stains and antibody did not bind other parts of the cell, nor the sediment
that surrounded the dinosaur fossils.
• This study strongly supported the presence of original dinosaur proteins and
DNA.
• The dinosaur cells certainly contain DNA, and it sits right where one would
expect if it were original dinosaur DNA. Without sequencing the DNA, it is
difficult to be absolutely sure.
• DNA has a half life of 521 years
• Assuming ideal conditions, DNA molecules in bone break down after only
10,000 years into tiny chemical segments too short for modern technology to
sequence.
• DNA can not last half a million years, but paleontologists describe DNA in
samples designated millions of years old.

Dinosaur Radiocarbon Dating
• Carbon-14 (C-14) dating of multiple samples of bone from 8 dinosaurs found in
Texas, Alaska, Colorado, and Montana revealed that they are only 22,000 to 39,000
years old
• presented by members of the Paleochronology group at the 2012 Western Pacific Geophysics
Meeting in Singapore.
• After presentation, the paper was removed from the conference website by conference
chairmen who stated there must be “an obvious error in the data” based on the ages derived.
• The Chairmen never looked at the data.
• An Allosaurus from the Morrison formation, found in 1989 was dated by the
University of Georgia by accelerator mass spectrometry to be 31,360 ± 100 years
old.
• The femur of an Upper Creataceous Hell Creek formation triceratops-like dinosaur,
found in 2007 was carbon-14 dated by the University of Georgia using accelerator
mass spectrometry to be 39,230 ± 140 years old.
• Another Hell Creek formation dinosaur, found in 2004, a triceratops, was dated by
the University of Georgia by accelerator mass spectrometry in 2009 as 24,340 ± 70
years old.

• An Apatosaurus was found in late Jurassic strata of the Morrison formation,
and excavation was done in 2007 and 2009. In 2011 the University of Georgia
dated the fossil to 38,250 ± 160 years old.
• A hadrosaur’s hip bone was found in 2011 in the Hell Creek formation. The
University of Georgia dated a sample from this bone to be 37,660 ± 160 years
old.
• In 2012 a triceratops horn was found. The University of Georgia dated the
fossil to be 33,570 ± 120 years old.
• A femur bone from a hardosaur in 2004 was found in the Hell Creek
formation. The University of Georgia using accelerator mass spectrometry
dated the sample to 25,670 ± 220 years old.
• An acrocanthosaurus (carnivorous dinosaur) specimen was excavated in 1984
near Glen Rose, Texas and was tested in 2010 by the University of Georgia. It
was found to be 29,690 ± 90 years old.

Additional Carbon 14 Dating Results

Conclusions
• Evolutionists claim dinosaurs are 65+ million years old
• Creationsists must conclude dinosaurs are less than about 6,000 years old
• The bible clearly tells us dinosaurs coexisted with humans
• The Fossil Record includes many dinosaur bone graveyards that
• All include a wide variety of kinds of animals
• Consistently include land and marine animals
• Most scientists agree involved some form of flooding to put all the animals into the graveyard
• Secular History provides a multitude of global flood stories and dinosaur stories in
diverse cultures around the world
• Fossil Footprints likely demonstrate coexistence of humans and dinosaurs
• Dinosaur Soft Tissues prove dinosaurs cannot be millions of years old
• Dinosaur DNA also proves dinosaurs cannot be millions of years old
• Dinosaur Radio-Carbon Dating consistently proves young ages for dinosaurs

Application
• Christians can counter the lies of evolution by knowing the real data:
• What the bible says about dinosaurs and creation
• Fossil graveyards contain dinosaur bones along with human and “modern”
animals
• Secular historians who consistently reported dragons (dinosaurs) as real,
living creatures, documenting colors, sizes, and behaviors
• Original soft tissues, which cannot last millions of years, have consistently
been found in dinosaur fossils thought to be millions of years old
• Fossil DNA, which cannot last millions of years, has been found in dinosaur
fossils thought to be millions of years old
• Radiocarbon dating has consistently determined dinosaur bones to be less
than 50,000 years in fossils thought to be millions of years old

Recommendations
Read Gen 1-11
Read “Dinosaurs and the Bible”
Read
Watch Ben Stein’s “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed”
Watch “Is Genesis History”
Watch “Unlocking the Mysteries of Genesis”
Watch
The Institute for Creation Research www.icr.org
Answers in Genesis www.answersingenesis.org
Web

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