S00584 tran

TRANSCRIPT OF ORAL HISTORY RECORDING
Accession number S00584
Title N19443 (N282070) Button, Walter William Augustus
(Mick) Private
Interviewer Connell, Daniel
Place made Warners Bay, NSW
Date made 14 June 1989
Description Walter William Augustus (Mick) Button, Private 55/53rd
Battalion, interviewed by Daniel Connell for the Keith
Murdoch Sound Archives of Australia in the War of 1939-
45
Discussing pre-war employment; formation of 53rd
Battalion; AIF/Militia conflict; embarkation for New
Guinea on the Aquitania; landing at Port Moresby; first
raid on Port Moresby; lack of training and equipment;
conditions on Kokoda Trail; pride in unit effort and
camaraderie at Kokoda; retreat from Kokoda; health; food
supplies; description of bombing of the Macdhui;
scrouging supplies in Port Moresby; contact with
American personnel; return to Australia; posting to
Intelligence Headquarters towards wars end; reflections on
war service.

MICK BUTTON Page 2 of 33
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Identification: This is tape ... the first side of the first tape and the interview is
with Mr Mick Button. What's your other name?
Walter, Walter William.
And your address Mr Button?
Warners Bay.
And what's the postcode?
2282.
Okay. I'm Daniel Connell and the date is 14th June 1989. End of
identification.
Right. Mick, where did you grow up?
East Maitland.
And could you tell me a little bit about your childhood? You know, was it a
large family?
Yeah, yeah, well, I'm the eldest of eight - six boys and two girls. Me father, he died quite
young - forty-one - he was heavily gassed in France at .... He was in the battle of the Somme
but he died from gas ... like gas. Effects and Mum sort of battled on with us and we had an
old Jersey cow and Mum reckons that's what kept us together. You know, and she used to
make homemade butter and well, get working round the farms and, oh, what else .... Oh, I
didn't have much of an education, I left school when I was thirteen and a half and went to a
brickyards. But when I was at school, from the time I was eleven till I was thirteen and a half,
I was captain of the cricket and football team at the school and I could run like a deer and, oh,
they'd tell me anyway. And, what else? I had a bout at the brickyards. They give me a banjo
- that's a shovel - and a strong back, you had to have that, and then from then on I got onto the
- we moved down on the flats and I got mixed up with the farmers and that was the .... I've
always remembered it as the best years, some of the best years of me life. And, what else? I
worked at the BHP, Newcastle. That's where I was working when we were called up. And ...
oh, and during our school days we were pretty bloody - we used to go to school with no shoes
on and ... on the frosty mornings and we used to have to - we put mutton fat on our feet, you
know, filled the cracks up and made 'em hard. We survived, you know.
And ... when was it? I think I was nineteen, 1939, that things were starting to pick up a bit,
you know, the depression years. So ...
Just before we go to the war ...
Yeah.
... Was your family a religious family?

... Well, Methodist but not ... not ... just average, you know. We ... oh, thanks for asking me
about that. My father, he was always a great ... we used to always go to Sunday School but
we weren't much of a church goer, you know what I mean, but Sunday School, he was a great
believer in that and he used to always donate something to the Salvation Army. Yeah.
What about politics?
Well, politics. No, never got really involved in politics. You know ... oh, you know, I do a
fair bit of reading but in those days, not that involved with politics. One thing I'll tell you, I'd
never argue the point about religion or politics like some people do, you know. They get
overenthused or whatever, but I, you know, I just play it by ear.
The background, your father, in the army. What sort of feeling did that give
you towards army life?
Well, um ...
In warfare?
(5.00) Well, I don't know. I didn't ... I didn't ... I was quite proud of him and that, reading
about the ... you know, as you grow up and your reading different things about the Great War,
and that. Yeah, I was quite proud. He was a bloody ... he must have been a fantastic bloody
athlete because he - even when he come back from the war - they tell me he was a good
footballer and he used to run like bloody Daniel Boon and he always had two dogs - two
hunting dogs - Sadie and Dash, they were, what do you call them, pointers. And he was very
good with a shotgun shooting, you know. In those days if you go out in the bush and he'd ...
pardon me ... he might get half a dozen rabbits or something and, of course, that was good
tucker those days and he give most of it away. But ... and he'd, you know, he was a real
down-to-earth sort of a bloke.
Did you learn to shoot?
Oh yeah, yeah (laughs) yeah. As a matter of fact I think I done a ... they did send me to a
sniper school in Moresby at one part of it but nothing come of it. But I was just a rifleman in
the what's-a-name. But I also worked in the cookhouse, I done a bit of everything. The only
thing I regret that I didn't learn, get in the bloody transport because you're isolated without a
set of wheels today, you know, in this day and age. You've got to depend on other people and
- but that's just how it was. I think I've been a bit too complacent in some regards.
We'll come to some of those things soon. In 1939, what were you doing in
1939 when war started?
I was working at the BHP burning bricks and working hard, by Jesus I was. I drank that much
water one day I nearly fell in the fires, you know, but I woke up to that. You know, of course,
when you're hot and you have too much water, it'll weaken yah and that's when .... And I had
a letter from them that I can get a start back there anytime - as soon as the war was over - I
was quite, you know - but I never went .... And I met my wife, she was in AMWAS and she
came from Bondi - AWAS, I beg your pardon - and I met her after I came back from the
islands and she lived at Bondi and I had a mate that lived at Five Dock and I got married at
Cronulla and I had ...

So that was after the war?
After the war, yeah, mmm.
So, in 1939, had you been following the newspapers? Aware of what was
happening in Europe?
No. No, I wasn't - I didn't - I wasn't - in those days, I used to do a lot of reading of westerns.
As a matter of fact, what did they call me, the Cisco Kid, that's xxx. But I tell you what I was,
I was a great what's-a-name, fan, I could tell you anything about the pictures. Like, you know,
in the Clark Gable era and all those type of actors and that. Of course, we used to go to the
pictures of a night time, when Shirley Temple was on, I knew 'em all like, you know. So
that's about all. Oh, and I learnt - I used to caddie .... In 1931 I used to caddie at East
Maitland at the gold course - and that's how I got to learn about golf and I used to love
playing golf till me legs went on me. Yeah, and ...
So, when war was declared, what did you think? What was your immediate
reaction that September, 1939?
Oh, well, to be quite frank it never, I never give it much thought really. But, by the same
token, I got a certain amount of discipline off me grandfather and father about insubordination
and things like that which served me in good stead and I will say this, the army done me a
bloody great deal I reckon because, self-reliant and, you know .... Sometimes I don't know
how to fully describe, but when I get wound up I can't stop sometimes. But it was a good life
and I never regretted, you know, any moment even though things were pretty rough at times,
you know. And ... but, you'll have to keep asking me question because I tell you what, I lack
concentration because I've got the cicadas in me ears. I don't know if you've heard of them,
have yah? I call 'em cicadas, that ringing noise, and the doctors can't do nothing about it. But
I'm not deaf, but Jesus it buggers me concentration up.
That's no problem, I'll ask you questions. When did the army first come into
your life; when did they first contact you and say, 'Hey, we want you', in some
way or other?
Oh, when they started those universal trainee camps. Now if you can check ... you must know
about that, and like, in those days, it was two or three months camp we done.
This was after the war started?
(10.00)Yeah, in the Middle East, yeah. And, actually, it was a good thing because we had,
you know, we had an idea what was going on and ...
Was it good training?
Yeah, it wasn't bad.
What did you learn?

We never had no jungle training. Actually ... oh, just about the rifles and conditioning and
discipline and ...
Did you do a bit of marching?
Oh gees, yeah ... yeah. March all day; oh, march. I marched one day and my leg went stiff.
Oh, I'll tell you, when I went through the Victoria Barracks there was one file there and one
file there and the two doctors sitting at the table, you know, and when they come to me they
called the other two over and the four of them looked me over. Well, things were pretty
desperate, see, my feet were as flat as a bloody board and they [said], 'You'll do' and away I
went and that was it. But, oh yeah, I done a lot of marching and I'll tell you something, I
didn't mind it either. I always thought of Daniel Boon, you know, the way he used to get over
the mountains and that. I used to love walking. And my grandfather told me when I was
fourteen year old, he said, 'If you ever have any illnesses or ...' and he said, 'walking is the
best', even then, that was in 1934. And he was like an ironbark tree. He had a bit of the
ironbark and teak in him and that's what he .... I've always remembered that. There's no
doubt about it, walking is .... I wouldn't have that jogging on as a fit, so don't ever take that
on, but walking - good - yeah, bloody beauty.
So, when did they call you up and make it, you know, a full time thing?
Um ... Well, ... September, October, I'd say September '41. See, 'cause we went to Ingleburn
and that's where they formed the 53rd [Battalion] at Ingleburn and I think we had about three
months' training there. And three times we were packed up to move and it was called off.
And some of us decided - it was that close to Christmas - some of us - the Newcastle boys and
the Colvale boys, you know, Cessnock and them, and Maitland - about twenty or thirty of us
decided we'd like to have Christmas day at home. We weren't shooting through because we
were really ... we were really conditioned and, you know, wrapped up in it. And, anyway, the
move started and they sent the provos out and picked us up and they took us down under
escort to a place in Bourke Street. There was a bloody old gaol there - I think they've done
away with it - they used to have the old bloody convicts there. Well, they put thirty of us in
this cell and give us three razor blades and the first feed they give us on them tin, rusty plates,
you couldn't eat it. And, anyway, they took us down to the Aquitania, just on dark, about six
o'clock, xxx, and she was there and the first time I'd ever sighted her, see. And some of the
Don Company boys, their orderly corporal and that, hanging out the porthole waving quarts,
you know, quarts of beer, and we went on board and got reprimanded by the company
commander and that was it.
Before we get onto that trip, you're in the Militia, as it was called then ...
Yeah.
Now, there was a bit of ... going on between the Militia and the AIF, did you
know about all that?
Yeah, I did, yeah.
So, in this ...

I never joined the AIF. They wanted me to join the AIF over there but I said to meself, 'It's
too late'. I said, ... anyway, I told the company commander and ...
Why is it too late?
Well, no .... I mean, not actually too late but what I said, it's not that I didn't want to join the
AIF, I said, 'That's not going to make me any better soldier' and we proved that later on, on
the Kokoda Trail 'cause we had a lot of AIF volunteers and that and half of them didn't make
it. You know what I mean? We just kept on marching, the blokes - you'd fall down in the
bloody mud and you'd get up and keep going. If you, you know, if you had it in yah. And
that's what I've always said, 'That's where I learnt to endure' which I did do and along with the
others that survived. And I met some terrific bloody blokes in Don Company. See, there's
blokes come from all over the country and there's two blokes in particular, one's a sergeant
and a corporal - they're both brothers from Moree - they never went back to the what's-a-
name, they never went back to Moree. One of them lives in Bondi and the other one lives at
Woy Woy and I've been in .... And it's only in recent years that we lost track of them because
when the Kokoda campaign was over, they broke the battalion up and it's only in recent years,
the last five years, I've been going down for the march and meeting different ones, you know,
and it's been a great feeling.
Just going back to that Militia/AIF thing, what caused the trouble?
(15.00)Oh I don't know. Oh ... it was just slinging off about the chocos and things like that,
that's all but that never bothered me in the least, and it didn't bother the other blokes either.
I tell you what, I don't know if you've heard this one or not, there was bloody talk about the
53rd being the greyhounds of the Owen Stanleys. Have you heard that?
Being the what?
The greyhounds of the Owen Stanleys. They got there ... there was some .... We only
followed orders, see. Like they reckon, it got around in the pubs in the city and that that we
run out, but that was common talk there. But anyone .... I've even heard it at East Maitland
where a bloke was in another unit - Hector Wright his name was - he started and he didn't
know I was with the 53rd. I said, 'Hector, you've got that wrong', and I knew him and he
knew me. So when I told him, he changed his tune. So you know how you give a dog a bad
name, that's how it came about.
See, we had .... After our colonel got killed, things went a bit haywire, I think, because ....
Have you .... Can I ask you a question? Have you ever heard of a Captain Cairns or a Major
Spring? You haven't?
Sorry, who was that?
A Captain Cairns and a Major Spring?
Yeah, I read the official history on the campaign, yeah.
Yeah. Did King mention anything about them two?

No, no. He was just talking about ...
He'd be a bit discrete I suppose, being the company commander. But I'm not prepared to ....
But they got lost somewhere along the line after the Colonel got killed and the adjutant. And
you never heard about the greyhounds of the Owen Stanleys?
Oh yeah, I've heard that, I've heard that.
Yeah. But that was a lot of what's-a-name - hooey.
I mean, I haven't heard that phrase but I've heard about the allegations.
Yeah, that's right, mmm.
And we'll come to that in a minute but just going back to the Aquitania, what
was it like? I mean, 5,000 troops on one ship that's a ...
It was amazing, amazing. We used to walk around the decks for exercise, you know, six
abreast and we were down, right down on F deck, well below the waterline and, oh Jesus, we
used to get in a sweat - hot. We used to sneak up and lay on the deck of a night time. But the
.... Oh, me being a country farm boy, and the Aquitania, I was bloody goggle-eyed, you
know. And I served a bit of time in the galley down there and much to my advantage because
I ate like a bloody king and, oh, everything down - cooked in steam, and so huge. I never
seen nothing like it. And I could just imagine, I often said to meself how it must have been
before it was converted, you know, into a troop ship. Oh, the bloody, the stairs, and some of
the ... you know, the rooms and things, oh, and the ballroom and all that sort of thing. But,
that, when I walked into that galley and seen the bloody ... pardon me ... all the, everything
done in steam. Oh gees, it's huge; I couldn't believe me eyes. And the tucker, well you
couldn't, you know - it was pretty good.
How long were you on the ship?
I'd say approximately seven days I think, I think it was, I'm not quite sure. See, we, I think ....
You get the dates mixed up. We ... we left Darling Harbour I think on 29th December, I
think, and we landed in Port Moresby on 3rd January '42. See, they hit Pearl Harbor on the -
they didn't waste any time - they hit Pearl Harbor on 7th December 1941 and we were in
Moresby on 3rd January '42. And I don't know what, actually, I don't know if King told yah,
but when we got off the boats at Moresby in the dark - we didn't know where we were going,
we was like young children, you know, on foreign land, sort of thing. And we marched along
the foreshores and up around the, and up a place called - you might know Simpson's Gap, do
you? Well, we camped there for a bloody fortnight.
Most of the luggage had been badly stowed I remember reading. What do you
know about that? Is that true?
Well, I don't know. They reckoned it went to another, to another destination because only for
the .... At the bottom of Simpson Gap - Ack-Ack Hill, another name we used to call it - there
was an air force camp there and we ate there for a - we wouldn't have got a feed - we ate there
for a fortnight. And we slept up on the hill for a fortnight with just a blanket and
groundsheets, no tents or nothing, they didn't have a thing. And the day - we were there for a

fortnight - and the day after we got dispersed to different parts of Moresby, they bombed the
bloody town for the first time.
Yeah, I've read about that. Can you tell me about that first bombing raid?
Well, the first bombing raid was bloody - quite an experience I'll tell you. And we found out
that while ever you could here 'em whistling you're pretty safe but - when they were coming
down - and that bloody whistle, you know, 'shhhhh', when you didn't hear that you had to hug
the ground pretty well, yeah. But - and I seen the bombing of the Macdhui too, a bird's eye
view.
(20.00)That happened a little bit later though I understand?
Much later, yeah.
On that first day, what, February 3rd I think - the 3rd or the 4th?
The 3rd January, that's when we landed then.
No, I meant February, the bombing.
Oh yes. Well, like, now I don't know the date about that.
Early February.
Yeah.
I mean, what happened after the bombing. There was a bit of chaos in town,
wasn't there?
Yeah, there was. I don't know, there was a Burns Philp store there too and they went through
that I think. Like some of the boys did. I think I was out ... I was out at a place called
[Porebarda], that's the other side of [Napa Napa]. You know, Napa Napa's on the other side
of the bay. Now, I was out there and xxx and boy, you talk about mosquitoes - they could lift
you up and carry you away. But, I don't know, there was a bit of what's-a-name but I never,
we never, being out there. See, where they put - they put us all over the place, sections of us,
and I learnt ... we learnt later that where they put us out at Porebarda, some of us, that was the
escape route I think up to the Fly River to get across to Darwin when the Coral Sea battle was
on. Well, when the Coral Sea battle was on, if they hadn't have stopped them they'd have
walked into Moresby just like you coming in the house here this morning because all we had
was barbed wire and broomsticks. But the greatest, I reckon, - all those - there was twelve
Catalinas there and I reckon all them blokes should have had a VC because they never had a
what's-a-name - a Buckley's bloody hope against them Zeros and they got 'em all, one by one,
and they got the last three on the water, doing maintenance down around Bootless Bay I think
it was. But they were bloody marvellous them blokes. But the Japs knew every .... Because
they could fly about like - with the reconnaissance planes and whatever in the early days and
they knew where all installations were, such as they were. And it was a bloody, you know,
we just sort of followed orders and took things as they come. And we dug bloody positions,
unloaded boats, and done a bit of this and that, you know, but we never had no jungle training
even over there. You know, just conditioning which proved its worth. But, I mean, we used

to go .... We used to whinge about Colonel Ward riding a big black horse and we'd say, 'He'd
never make it', he never faulted, he kept going. Oh, there's so many things that come to mind,
you know.
What sort of training did you have in those first few days?
Over there?
In Port Moresby?
Like we had at Ingleburn. You know, the ordinary infantry training but nothing like .... See,
they all went in with their ranks [?] up too, see. When the Colonel got hit, the next minute
they were calling me Bob. See, that's when they woke up. The Japs knew all about that, all
that business and, you know, that's how it was. Oh, and the bloody tucker, and the tucker,
God. And we had no bloody cooking gear or nothing and we used to cook in sections and you
can just imagine twelve inches of rain in a night and the smoky fires and we used to cook in
square tins the dog biscuits come in and, of course, they were solid. And we was there, and
we was as hungry as buggery one day and wet and everything - we had no change of clothing
or nothing - anyway, someone went to pull it off the bloody fire. Anyhow, the arse of it fell
out of it - excuse the expression - and it all went in the ashes, but we didn't miss - put the ash
in it and it'd put a bit of body with it. We all cleaned it up; we cleaned it all up and it was
bloody - that's the beauty of having a good stomach, you know, but done well.
But I often wondered since, you know, how we got out of there. I met an old plantation
owner - I was twenty-two at the time and he must have been bloody seventy if he was a day,
or sixty anyway. And he was standing in a bloody - wounded blokes all around him, telling
'em, 'Anyone could walk, get out. Get going', you know. And I read a book somewhere, if I
think of his name one day, I'll give you a ring and tell you his name, but he had a plantation at
... I don't know whether it was Buna or Gona or Kokoda, I'm not sure. But I often wonder
what become of him but he must have got out because his name - I read a book, That Mob I
think it was, or one of them, or Retreat from Kokoda, his name was mentioned in it and I've
always remembered him and I'd know his name if I heard it but I can't, offhand I can't.
Well, just going back to those early days, I mean, the battle of the Coral Sea ...
(25.00)Oh yeah, yeah.
What do you remember about the battle of the Coral Sea?
Yeah, that's very interesting, very interesting. Well, we was spread out all around Moresby
and no bugger was game to move in the night time and ...
Why not?
Well, they didn't know, you know, inexperienced troops and we knew about the Coral Sea
battle and no-one would move in the night time. Like I said, we had barbed wire and
broomsticks and all we did was wait for the dawn to come up and we all had our positions,
you know, throughout the area and we didn't know some of the blokes - some of the blokes,
depending on your outlook, I suppose, some of them panicked a bit - but they didn't know
whether, you know, they might coming to land down in the bay and coming up in the bloody

what's-a-name and it was a, oh, it was a real panicky job. No bugger was game to move, he
might have got shot, you know. But, you know, all keyed up.
When you say, 'panic', did they actually do anything?
No, no, they didn't actually what's-a-name but they were a bit - I don't know how to put it -
but we were all bloody keyed up.
How ready were you to go up the Kokoda Trail?
Well ... How ready? Well, we were ready, that's it. Well, like, when they moved, when they
decided to move, as I told you, I came out of the con[valescent] camp - I had a big bout of
malaria - and I got word that my battalion was coming through. I think the 39th Battalion
from Victoria, they went ahead of us. And Don Company .... See it's marvellous, some of
them told us later that Don Company was the first company from the 53rd out of all, out of
the 53rd Battalion and - but the 39th - and I believe the 49th from Queensland, they didn't go
because they were all bloody full of malaria. But I suppose we were as ready as we'd ever be.
You had had some training? You had had the right gear? What was the ...
No. All we had ... all I had was, you know, the little pack with five hand grenades, so many
rounds of ammunition and a rifle and they also just prior to that they had the old Lewis gun,
see. Well, that would be very cumbersome in the mountains, in the mud and the rain and that
and the bloody - up the Golden Stairway - you've heard about that haven't you? I had a photo
here somewhere but I don't know where it is now. And by gees it was tough. But you could
just imagine what it would be .... And they bung the - they give 'em the Bren gun see. A
good mate of mine from Coffs Harbour, [Fred Larry], they didn't have enough training -
elementary training - on the Bren gun, see. Consequently, with the rain and the mud and that
the snipers got onto them straightaway. But that's how it was.
Well, could you describe actually going up there? I mean, the first time you'd
gone up ... pushing into Kokoda?
Well, I'll tell yah, pushing in ... Well, anyway, I'll tell you the first night out from Koitaki, half
the battalion got in - see we used to stay in native camps on the plateaux - half the battalion
got in, I was one of the half that didn't get in and I slept ... I slept, I put me foot against a
bloody stump so I wouldn't keep sliding down, it was like that it was. I put me foot against a
stump so I wouldn't slide and tried to sleep. And then we moved out early in the morning and
had a feed and I'll always remember they had the natives dishing the - we used to go through
single file - and the natives were dishing it out and some of them, a lot of the natives had
malnutrition. Have you ever seen them with the scale on them? And it was windy and the
bloody scale - this is fair dinkum - the scale was blowing off the bloody, off the natives onto
the tucker, onto our kai as the natives used to call it, and I always remember Jeff Carruthers
from Maitland - he was born with a bloody silver spoon in his mouth sort of thing, but a good
bloke, a bloody sniper got him, it didn't kill him, and it hit him on the bloody, it made a
furrough on his helmet - and he couldn't bloody, he couldn't take it. A lot of them couldn't
take it. But me, I was like a chicken into what's-a-name. 'Cause you had to, you know, to
keep you going. Eat anything. And I was a bit of a finicky eater before - that's what the army
done for me too, there's nothing I can't eat or won't eat, you know. But that was something ...

(30.00)Anyway, it was a day's march between each camp, see. I think it's six or seven days
before we got to Kokoda. And Myola, I always remember Myola where the biscuit bombers
used to dump the stuff, drop the stuff, and that's when they, as I told you, they commandeered
some head-hunters. Dick White was with us there at that time and it was six of us and we
was a couple of days, a day or so behind the rest of the battalion and ...
I'll just turn the tape.
Yeah, yeah.
END OF TAPE 1 - SIDE A
START OF TAPE - SIDE B
Identification: This is side two of the first tape. Mr Mick Button.
Well, anyway, at Myola, we're talking about, that's when they commandeered them head-
hunters and they're the fiercest-looking men that I ever seen. Oh gees, they had things
through their noses and old Dick White - the sergeant cook he was what's-his-name, he done a
marvellous job up there too - and he said, 'Gees', he said, 'Look at this will you' and anyway
.... And there's a bloke now that never had no condition and he was there all the way, I reckon
he had a bit of weight on him too. But he done well at Kokoda when they used to throw the
bloody mortars over and that, that's another thing to our advantage, that wet season. That's
where the Japs made a mistake too, see. A lot of their what's-a-name was dud, you know,
didn't work. And there was a couple of doctors - he knows the story because he was there, he
was looking after them, Dick was - and a couple of them got, one of the doctors got hit in
both knees and they sprayed the bloody battalion. We was on one side of the ravine and they
was on the other. And the mortars and things like that. And even .... There was a bloke
named I-Say, you know they put a tag on yah - a nick-name in the army - a bloody what's-a-
name landed on him and never went off. And just imagine how he must have felt - a bloke
named Stanmore and they used to call him I-Say. Incidentally, they used to call be Boong.
Why?
Well, I'll tell you why. When I was at Porebarda the natives - in the day time the bloody
mosquitoes were bad but of a night time they were even worse - but natives used to put mud
over themselves and I said to meself, 'Well, gees, if it's good enough for them it's good
enough for me' and I done that and they soon bloody put the tag on me and called me 'Boong
Button' and I've had it ... even blokes I see now, they say, 'How yah going Boong' when I go to
Sydney. Yeah, that's how I got the name Boong.
And just going back a little bit. So it took you about five or six days to get to
Kokoda?
Yeah, it was six .... I think it was about a seven-day march more or less. A day's march
between each plateau. But what amazed me, up and down 'em bloody mountains and up over
the Golden Stairway and so on, all single file, oh, and bloody, you know, everything - misty,
foggy, and you know, hardly see the sun. And when we come back we had a fungus all round
our parts - mouth, nostrils, ears and backside. Like, you know, when you go to a cupboard in
the wet weather and you get mildew on your bloody what's-a-name; that's how we were. You

know, of course we never even had a change of socks and, what else, Templeton's Crossing,
there was a lot of fighting there. But, actually, see I can't think of the bloody names, the
what's-a-names. But getting back to the day's march between each plateau, the native camps.
The foliage and the ground, the what's-a-name was like bloody Koitaki. And they had pigs
everywhere. That's the experience we had the first night; we put our bloody gear and weapon
and everything and what's-a-name and when we got up the next morning the bloody pigs went
through the lot of it, you know, arooting and booting it around and everything. We had a job
sorting it out. And so we woke up to that one and they had pigs at every what's-a-name. And
the mandarins and the oranges and the bananas and the greenery, oh, 'cause I've been
interested in that sort ... like when I see what's-a-names of the films of England how lovely
and green things are and then I couldn't get over the way the things were on the plateaux - I
call them plateaux anyway - I couldn't make it out. Climbing all the time. And then, I don't
know how many acres or whatever, all flat, see. Then we'd be off again the next morning.
How was it organised, you know, each day? You were marching, you said that
you fell behind a little bit. I mean, how was it organised in terms of the
groups?
(5.00) Oh well, it was ... I think it was pretty well organised. We ... our ... the only time that
we fell behind is at this particular Myola. We had a bit of cleaning up to do, you know, we
got allotted certain jobs and that was about the only time and there was ... one day or two days
we were cut off near Templeton's Crossin' and, enough though it was rainin', we had to dig
our bloody tin helmet into the what's-a-name to get a drink, you know, to get a drink of water,
yeah.
Why was that?
Well, we had no water, you know. And, I don't know, even though we had a water bottle
they didn't supply bloody what's-a-name, we had to depend on the rivers you crossed or
whatever, you know. And the fast, Jesus, the last day we was in, we had to - there was a xxx
of fallen logs - half of them got across and the snipers got onto them and the other half we had
to, you know, sort of go up further a bit and go across the bloody what's-a-name, it was only
about knee high but the current was up fast. We sort of chained ourselves, you know, like
hanging on to get across that way.
Were you doing much fighting to get up to Kokoda?
No, not actually till we got to what's-a-name - no, no.
So, I mean, that incident you just described then, when was that? That was on
the retreat, was it?
Yeah, oh yeah. On the retreat that's right, yeah, that was, yeah.
So, when you got to Kokoda, could you, you know .... Well, before you got
there I'd like to know a little bit about the unit. I mean, how did you feel about
the 53rd Battalion? Did you think it was a fairly well run unit? This is before
you really get into the fighting and the pressure's really on?

Well - that's going to go - Um, thank you - No, well, how could I say .... What was that
question again?
The unit, I mean, was it .... How did you feel about it? Did you feel, okay,
you liked your mates and the people you were with but did you feel that you
were in a fairly well-run organisation or did you think, 'My God, what have we
got here? These officers' ...
No, no, I didn't feel that way, no. We just - like, the only thing I can say in answer to that, we
.... They were a great team of blokes and we just sort of followed orders. And just things
went a bit awry and astray when the Colonel got killed and - and I don't know, you know, but
we had - the AIF lieutenants we .... See we got a lot of AIF lieutenants and they were good
too, particularly a bloke named Bob Deakin - I've never seen him since then ...
If you could say that again.
Bob Deakin, he was another AIF lieutenant, but they done a pretty good job. And, of course,
they come from the Middle East I think. And we got a lot, before we went over we got a lot
of reinforcements - AIF reinforcements ... Betty, you wouldn't believe that would you. Hey
Betty, get hold of this cat will you. Anyway, no, actually I'm quite proud of the effort really
under, under, under the conditions and circumstances.
I mean, I wasn't asking, you know, whether or not, I wasn't asking that
particular question.
No, no, I understand, no.
I'm just asking whether it was a well organised, well trained, coordinated
group that got up there or whether you felt that it was ...
No, I wouldn't .... No, no, not .... It wasn't spot on, I put it that way, okay. Yeah, it wasn't
spot on.
What were the problems? What were the things, looking back, in terms of
going into battle, going into that situation, what were the things that were
wrong?
Well, I think .... Well, we weren't, we had no jungle training. The only thing - condition was
the only thing that stood us in favour.
What condition?
The condition is like a racehorse, like, you know, to march and so on.
You were fit.
Yeah, yeah. You had to be otherwise you wouldn't have got to Kokoda because as we went
ahead going up we thought, at first we thought, 'Well, gees, it'll be good to get to what's-a-
name' but it was just as bad going down on the legs and the body and that, you know. But, it
was a real, a real bloody challenge, real ordeal. But ...

What did you find at Kokoda? What was it like - what was the place like?
Well, ah, I got sick of it. It was mist, fog and rain, yeah, and a lot of greenery of course. I
think the airport, the drome was only clear about two hours a day but ....
(10.00)That actually, as I say, when I come back - that was the only campaign I was in on
account of me chest - when I come back, after I come back, I started to get crook, oh gees I
was crook and I got pneumonia and everything.
Just wait for the dogs. (Dogs barking.)
Yeah.
You were saying about when you came back?
Oh yeah, and for a fortnight I'd go up to the RAP and there was a big bloke there with a
moustache and that and he was sitting there like, with a flyswatter swatting the flies, light
duties and Aspros, that was their bloody order of the day. Anyway ...
What was that?
That's was the order of the day for him for anyone who went in - light duties and Aspro, see.
And I couldn't eat or nothing and, well, you know what it's like with pneumonia and what's-a-
name. I've been very fortunate really, I've had some bouts and I've been to Concord five times
since the war. Anyway, and I'm a TPI now, but I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make
another what's-her-name, Madam Melba, another comeback. But anyway, Bob Deakin, that's
the lieutenant I was telling you about - not because he done that, he was good up there too at
Kokoda - he took me up to the medical officer and demanded I have a thorough examination
and they put me straight in hospital. I was in there for, oh, two months I think and otherwise I
don't know how I would have got on.
Well, just going back to the Kokoda, you arrived at the place and, I mean, what
did you do? What did the unit do? Did you set up, or did you go into action,
or what happened?
Yeah, well .... No, well, we had a talk. The what's-a-name, Captain Cairns said, 'There'll be
blood and guts lying down there tomorrow', he said, 'It could be yours or it could be mine, er,
theirs'. And that's when it all started and we - mostly all patrol work, scouting, you know, but
they, there was that many there they used to ambush us.
Well, could you talk about, you know, that first contact? This is the first time
in a sense that you're going into battle. What actually happened and how did
you feel on the first day?
Nervous as a cat. I'll tell you what, there's a lot of rocks like in one particular spot like there'd
been a bloody, what'd yah call it?
A landslide?

No, not a landslide.
An earthquake?
No, not an earthquake. They were volcanic stones, rocks and that about the place and the
bloody bullets are ricocheting everywhere and we, you know, it was like a two-year-old
racehorse shying at a piece of paper. But, we learnt to move fast and that was a big help. But
other than that we just, we followed orders. And it was all new of course, you know, but, I
don't know, it's something you've got to go through. I don't know how to actually describe it
really but ...
What were you trying to do?
Trying to do?
Mmm.
Trying to stop 'em, that's about all I think. But, and you know, do what we had to do sort of
thing. But, see, we were posted here and there all over the place and we used to go out and do
patrols. And I - I've been - they reckon I'm a bloody magpie but I've never said much about
some of the incidents at Kokoda but ... I lost ... I know ... We'd get word that different ones
had copped it and that, you know, and a couple of good mates of mine and that used to cut us,
that'd cut you up a bit. And you didn't know when you was going to get it or .... And you
just, you know, you had to be sort of on the alert all the time. And never had much sleep, no
sleep or nothing. We, of a night time you'd have to sit around the butt of a tree and we had,
the only protection we had was a bloody, those old groundsheets - I don't know if you've ever
seen 'em - and they used to sweat like anything and they wasn't much protection and we ended
up practically wet and dry all the time, you know.
Trevor King told a story about cutting hair on the Kokoda strip.
Did he tell you about cutting mine?
Yeah, well, he referred to .... He told me to ask you about it, so I'm asking
you.
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know what, now there's something I forgot to tell yah. I mentioned ....
No, I had that in me mind. And, incidentally, the other one he cut was Mick Malouf's and
that's the bloke from Coffs Harbour - he never come back. See, I had a mop of big black hair
and I mean, I often wonder - fancy him, now, fancy him remembering that. I don't know
where he got the bloody shears from but he cut a case of head wounds, yeah. I meant ...
Could you tell me that story, not just refer to it? What happened? Tell me the
story about the cutting of the hair?
(15.00)Well, I don't .... All I can tell you is, he said to me one day there, there must have
been a bit of a lull or something, and he said, he said, 'You look like you could do with a
bloody bit of a shearing or something', and I said, 'How are you going to do that?' and he
produced these bloody big - they looked like taylor shears they were. Where he got 'em from,
I don't know. (coughs) Pardon me .... And I remember that he cut Mick Malouf's hair - he

was Syrian, Australian Syrian - and my hair, I had long black hair like, I mean, you could just
imagine. And, incidentally, I'm growing, I like your style, I'm growing my hair like you and
I'm seventy next birthday, so I'm not going too bad really, I've been very fortunate, yeah. No,
hey, no, I'm pleased you mentioned that because every time I see Captain King I always refer
to that incident, yeah. But I don't know how it actually come about but that's what happened.
He said that you were out in the open and he was surprised that really you
weren't picked up. It was a sort of a rather daring thing to do.
Yeah. I know .... Well, you know, que sera, as they say, I don't know. Um, I'm um .... How
could I put it, a bit of a, you know a bit of a gambler I suppose you might say. But, oh, I don't
know, I get .... Incidentally, I get - do you mind if I light a cigarette?
Sure.
Madam? Thank you. I get very emotional at times, it's just the way .... When them blokes
come and seen me the other day after Mousie Ball's funeral, I bloody - and they reckon I can
talk under water. That's the way the other blokes have a go at me and that - and the nurses.
But, I get a lump in me throat and I can't bloody say a word. You know, I well up. It's, it's
not a bad feeling too. Like, the way I look at it, if you .... I remember when I come home
from the war and I met me mother and ...
Just wait ...
Incidentally, I shouldn't be smoking.
Well, that's between you and the doctor.
Well put, well put, yeah. No, you've got a bloody, a pretty good countenance you have, no
really, you've got a lot of character there and that's not ... no, that's how they go on. But
anyway ....
You were talking about your mother.
Oh yeah, when I come home I sat there for half ... I couldn't talk, I just couldn't talk. And
what I found out about this what's-a-name my heart won't wither up, I won't dry up inside -
that's what I reckon, that's only my contentions, yeah.
When did it begin to go wrong up at Kokoda?
Oh, now ... well, there was that many there, there was that many there. They didn't know how
many was there. And the 2/16th, the 14th and the 27th, pardon me, (coughs) the 21st Brigade
they were, come in from the Middle East. This is what I learnt, I picked up along the
grapevine, one of the battalions out of that 21st Brigade fouled up in the Middle East and they
got permission from their brigadier to lead that battalion in just after ... when we withdrew
and they were going to push the Japs back to Tokyo that night but they got a shock too
because they poured a lot of troops in after them - troop after troop - oh yeah.

Just going back to yourself, I mean, when did you begin to think that, you
know, you're not going to hold them, you're going to have to pull back. Where
did you begin to get that feeling?
Well, I don't know. It sort of come natural, you know, like .... I don't know how to explain
that but we knew by every which way we moved they ambushed us, every time we went out,
you know. And then when, and we didn't know who was going to relieve us or what was
going on, see. And they seen 'em coming up and it was just as heavy going going back as
coming up, you know, on the way back to Moresby. But ...
When was Colonel Ward shot?
Well, I dunno, I couldn't tell you what's-a-name but they reckon he was only in action about
three minutes, but I know it wasn't long. And then the adjutant went up or someone went up
to get him - they put him up on a log like what's-a-name - and they got the bloody adjutant
too, the snipers. And that's when, as I told you, that's when they started to pull the ... did King
say anything about that? Yeah, yeah. He'd, he'd probably, in regards to the action, he'd be
able to, he'd be able to tell yah a lot more than I would. See, we just sort of followed orders
and ...
Yes, but what happened to you personally is what I'm, you know, trying to get
at.
Well, what happened to me personally was that, you know, as I said, I followed orders and
done what I was told and that was it.
(20.00)So when did you get the word to retreat?
Umm, well there now that - oh, I don't know what it was. It was the last - that last day
remember I told you the bloke's rifle went off.
Yeah. Actually could you tell me ... you were saying before that you
developed a belief in providence, I mean, tell me about that last day on
Kokoda?
Well, the last day .... That last day was when we went out in this particular - there were
different ones out - in this section there was nine of us - pardon me ... and there was - (dog
barks) isn't it marvellous. We were out nearly all day and - all single file and we could hear -
we knew we were getting closer because you could hear them jabbering and ... but you
couldn't see them. And this lone rifle shot went off and as soon as that went off we hit the
ground, all of us ...
Could you tell me about the lone rifle shot?
Well, all I can ... it was ... I was second scout, see, and I don't who was in front of me but I
know I was second scout because what's-a-name put me second scout - Bob Deakin - he was
our platoon, our leader there - section leader - and Leo Burns ... Burns we used to call him, he
was a real hard case, I think I told yah - his rifle went off. And how it come about I don't
know. But when it went off, and as I said before, we knew that they were close handy but we
couldn't see them and as soon as that rifle shot went off we hit the ground, every which way,

you know. And I was with the WO, Leo Bartley - he's passed on now, he come from East
Maitland. He used to work up in Moresby as an accountant before the war and he must have
been forty if he was a day in those days, see, and .... I was twenty-two - and him and I hit the
bloody ground together, simultaneously behind an old rotten log and the bloody leaves, you
know over-hanging branches, sprayed all over us. So you can just imagine - we'd have kept
on walking there was no question about that only for that bloody shot - and you can imagine
can't you how it makes you wonder. And that's it in a nutshell. And then we had to
withdraw; got orders to withdraw and then we got orders to move back to Moresby.
So, that rifle shot um .... You don't know what caused the rifle shot?
No, never found out.
But it wounded the bloke, didn't it?
Yeah, hit him in the elbow. Yeah. He come from Queensland and I've never seen him since.
'Cause when we ... I went to ... we come back to Moresby and I went into hospital and then -
what happened then - ...
And what, the machine gun, the Japanese, what happened? Did they .... When
the rifle shot went off what did the Japanese do?
Well, ... what did they do? We never what's-a-name, we just .... They give us a lot of fire and
we had - we got orders to withdraw and they were sniping at us all the way down the slope
and across the river and even going across the bloody river, the what's-a-name, I told you
some of them got across and others had to go up stream a bit to get away from the bloody
snipers and that was it. And then we was ordered back to Moresby.
Getting back, you said that was hard, could you describe that?
Well, it was .... Like the marching I mean, up and down them mountains again. See, they
told me some of them were between seven and thirteen thousand feet high and all single file
and you could just imagine what it would be like carrying the wounded out. What a great
boon the helicopters would have been in those days getting them out of there. But ...
Did you have Papua New Guineans up there helping you?
Oh the natives? Oh God, yeah, yeah ...
Could you describe what they were doing?
Um, I don't know about what's-a-name but they were bloody fantastic they were. I don't know
what they lived on or what's-a-name but there would have been a hell of a shemozzle if they
hadn't have .... I don't think we'd have got ... well, I don't know if we'd have ... we wouldn't
have got anything to eat or whatever. See, the white man's only supposed to carry so much
weight in the what's-a-name and, as you know in the tropics, and .... Oh, they did a
marvellous job. No question about it, yeah.
Did you get to know any of them?

(25.00)Ah, not on the trail but I did around Moresby. As a matter of fact after - see, I got
reallocated out of the infantry on account of me condition - and I used to have, I had some
photos of it, they're all gone now, one bloke his name was Scow and oh ... and I had a bloke
who used to do a bit of ironing for me and I used to get him some bully beef and biscuits and
things like that. And we was out at Porebarda - that was before we went over the Kokoda
Trail - I knew the chief personally called Mario, his name was, and I used to let him ... use me
.303, shooting coconuts out of the tree. And he give me - one of my younger brothers wanted
me to get him a bloody - that was John - a bow and half a dozen arrows - which he give 'em to
me and, of course, I had 'em all the time up until we went over the Kokoda Trail and of course
everything was lost then. But yeah, you know, that's the place where they nicknamed me
Boong out there, and the mosquitoes, oh gees, they were bloody thick - thick as I've ever seen.
Mosquitoes never bothered me back in Australia; never bothered me in the least.
In the retreat back, were you under fire during your retreat back?
No. Not after we got out of ... over Templeton's Crossing I think it was, this side of Kokoda.
You weren't cut off like some of the others, like Trevor King was for example?
No, no ... No. I ... oh, there was one time that we was cut off I think but you lose track of
time, you know. But other than that, when we got orders to withdraw that was it, heading
back for Moresby, yeah. But ... we were ... of course, we did a lot of .... I think it affected the
battalion when the Colonel got, went so bloody quick and that, you know, and different other
ones, and the adjutant.
What about the officers on the way back, how did you feel they handled it?
Oh, I never had much to do with them, you know, all struggling to get back home, get back to
a change of clothing, you know. See, we didn't have a change or nothing - not a thing. I think
the only thing we had was the old dixie, you know, to eat out of, you know, what we could
eat. But, other than that ... no. Well, and then, of course, when I got back - I didn't realise
how crook I was either, you know.
You hadn't been wounded at all?
No, no. Never got wounded, no, no. No, I was pretty lucky there. A lot of them like the old
Mouse and them went close a couple of times and like, Jeff Carruthers that couldn't eat the
what's-a-name, the snipers got onto him and he had the hat full and he finished up losing it,
ploughed a furrough in his bloody helmet and it stunned - he fell down like a mullet and he
never had a mark on him. It's amazing isn't it? But he's passed on too, Jeff - he come from
Maitland - he knew, he knew King pretty well too. But I didn't know, one of the funny .... I
didn't know that King had taken over Don Company because he was company commander for
headquarter company and he had a mortar platoon and I didn't know until we got to Kokoda
that they left our original company commander, Noel Proctor - I think he had sugar diabetes
or something like that, he wasn't real what's-a-name, but he was more of a ... he wasn't a field
man actually he was a ... like, more or less for the clerical side of it. You know, he was good
in the office and things like that. But he was all right but he wasn't a real strong field man
like King and a few of the others, you know, but .... Oh, you know, there's so many different
things. I'll probably think of things later on when you're gone that, you know, I should have
mentioned to you. We as a battalion .... At one stage, after the campaign they put us in the

Town Major's, what they call the Town Major's gang and we camped in Burns Philp's store on
the main street just down from the pub. And I had .... The pub was still open - you know the
pub on the corner?
xxx
(30.00)Yeah. And we'd been - hot beer of course - and we had no swimming trunks, we them
old white army underpants and for something, a bit of a fracas started between the 39th and
the 53rd I think. You know, it wasn't ... only a mild and I threw a bloody pair of wet
underpants at some[one] and hit the fan and it went round and round and hit a bloody boong
behind the counter. That's something else, you know, those things ... little things like that.
But, yes, amazing.
Going back to the Kokoda Trail, how did you .... When you were fighting
together as a group I mean you would have had tactics that you worked out
even if you hadn't had any jungle training beforehand, can you remember
anything about the tactics? You know, when you were getting into a difficult
situation and, you know, the fire was going and all those sorts of things ...
The only thing I know you just sort of use your own nous like, if you understand that
expression, you know. And ...
END OF TAPE 1 - SIDE B
START OF TAPE 2 - SIDE A
Identification: This is tape 2, side 1 of the interview with Mick Button. Right,
the end of identification.
Tactics, you were saying basically common sense.
Yeah, more or less, yeah.
I mean, any particular tricks for avoiding snipers for example?
Ah, ... Oh well, how could you say. After the first couple - they got the Bren gunners and
that, you know, you'd be looking up in the bloody trees and things like that, just sort of, you
know, sort of come to you more or less. That might be a bit vague but .... The only way I
think I can put it is just use me own, our own individual discretion, you know. Like people in
the streets in the cities, you know, streetwise and things like that, you know. Use your own -
lack of education, I can't fully express meself. But no, just ... you know, as I put it, we played
it by ear, you know.
What weapons did you find were most useful?
Well, I only had the bloody .303 and hand grenades. But the Tommy gun was all right and ....
But see, it's a wonder anything worked in that rain and mud because it was ... oh gees, it was
bloody wet and damp and foggy and misty. Well, you've been in the tropics in the wet season
haven't you? That was, that was the thing that was against the Japs. And I don't know how
true this is but they - I've been told, that when they landed at Buna and Gona and them places

they thought it was all flat going to Moresby. They didn't know the mountain was there or
something - I don't know if that's fair dinkum or not but that would be .... Those mountains,
they were tough, Jesus they were tough. Um, you know, I don't know what to ... how to
bloody describe it but ... to get over that Owen Stanley Ranges in the wet season, that was
something - just the march alone without the bloody fighting and that, you know.
No, I ... all I can say is that I'm ... I was very proud to be able to get to Kokoda and do what I
possibly could and also with the boys that went over and sailed on the Aquitania and Don
Company of the 53rd Battalion - a great team of blokes. Oh, and our WO, Noel Spalding, we
used to call him Bullocky, he was like a bloody big bullock too and they got him too.
Were you there when they got him?
No, I was in another section at the time, yeah. No. But ...
What about .... Were you hearing about Japanese atrocities? Did you hear any
stories about that?
Oh, I heard only titbits but never took much notice. The only ...
You didn't see any?
No, no. I didn't see, not personally, no. And about eating and the business, I don't know
whether ... I never seen any of that. The only thing, when we were in Moresby, Tokyo Rose
put the tag on us about - she was talking about the Rats of Tobruk being trapped - now they've
got the mice of Moresby in the holes round Moresby. And she used to come on the air of a
night time and I knew I heard that meself personally.
What was it like hearing Tokyo Rose talking about you?
Oh, we used to look forward to it of a night time but .... Hey, and I'll tell you something else
we didn't know: we never knew about the raids on Darwin - this is fair dinkum - or the subs
in Sydney, never heard a thing, never heard a thing. No, never got to us. We just couldn't
make that out.
When you got back to Moresby, what happened then?
(5.00) Well, how we got back to Moresby? I think the battalion was ... xxx in array, you
know, like with the Colonel gone and, see, I'm not prepared to say about King and ... not King
... Cairns and Spring. There was a lot of talk but they were never seen again. But I believe
Spring's still about, somewhere in New South Wales, but I never heard about him in the
islands again. See, I don't know what actually happened there. There was some talk about
them shootin' through and I don't know whether that was part and parcel of the tag we got
about the, being the greyhounds for the Owen Stanleys but I know that was the talk in the
pubs and that. Like ... blokes would like to .... But mostly it was only people talking about it
that was never there, from what I seen of 'em, because we didn't - we just followed orders and
that was it and we was no different to any other what's-a-name, other troops really. I
personally, I thought we done reasonably well under the conditions. Course, um, we only had
ordinary infantry training in Moresby before we went over the Owen Stanleys and, as I said, I
think - I'm not certain of this - but I think we were the only ones that ever went into action in

khaki. We had the leather leggings too, they were a great help to us. I don't know how that
come about but they were great support on our legs those leather leggings. But, see, no
change of clothing, nothing. Not even change ... you can just imagine what it would be like.
Some ... I even, in recent years gone by, I hear the rain coming down and I'm in bed and warm
and there's often been times in the day time that I've - and its teaming rain - and I put a
raincoat on and go for a bloody walk, you know, just for the hell of it. Well, thinking about
those days over there, you know, and how fortunate I was more or less. Yeah, it's bloody
amazing.
But that word 'camaraderie' was it, it still exists but not with all the troops. Now there's a ....
In a radius of thirty miles to this area there could be, there'd be a bloody dozen blokes at least
of Don Company and I've rang 'em all and even sent 'em a card at different times - at
Christmas time - just 'from Don Company'. The only ones that has kept in contact, there's a
bloke named Rajah Jones, he comes from Gorokan now, and Sergeant Dick White, now he
doesn't live very far from Captain King, Trevor King's place in East Maitland. He would
have liked to ... if we'd have known a bit earlier, would it have been all right to interview
three of us together, like, I mean, could it have been arranged that way?
Yeah, we could have done that.
Yeah, I know, yeah. That would have been very interesting because old Dick, he's got that
terrific memory on different incidents that happened up there, a bit more than me probably but
he was only a sergeant cook but he was always in amongst it, you know, and around
headquarters and so on. But, yeah, he would have, old Dick would have, he done a bloody
marvellous job. He helped, he even helped the doctors and that out, you know, when some of
them were wounded and .... But, I'm pleased, I'm pleased you're going to see Billy Elliott,
because he was in Don Company and if you're talking to him tell him that even though we
don't see each other much, tell him that I always still think of the days when we sailed on the
Aquitania and Ingleburn and on the Kokoda Trail. Tell him I look, I look at them blokes, not
as today but as they were, you know, in me mind I mean. And, but there's other blokes round
here that they always, you know, always nice to see you but they never make any effort to get
in touch with you or whatever, you know, yeah.
Just going back a little bit. So, you came out from the Kokoda Trail, you're
back in Moresby. You got sick after that, when did you begin to get sick?
Ah, about a week after I come back, I started to get these headaches and, you know, what's-a-
name and that and I couldn't eat or do anything. Just lay down like a dog, you know, in the
tent - no beds or nothing - just a ... I don't know whether we had a ... I don't think we had a
palliasse, just a groundsheet and a couple of blankets and that. And that's when Bob Deakin -
I think I was going up there for a week and I always remember that bloke with the fly swatter
and light duties and Aspros and ..,
This is in Moresby?
Yeah, yeah. Beg your pardon?
(10.00)Could you say this through the microphone?

Oh in Moresby, yeah, in Moresby, yeah. At ... I think it was at the Twelve Mile Drome, what
they used to call the Twelve Mile. There was a big tent there. And there was also a hospital,
an established hospital out that way too. I was there at one stage in Moresby and, what else
was there there? Murray Barracks, I told you about Murray Barracks. I got bit with a bloody
red spider at around about the Coral Sea battle time. We were doing ... we were doing some
climbing, crawling on the barbed wire what's-a-name and we'd do the manoeuvre and we'd sit
and talk, you know, with the corporal and I'm, you know, open shirt and shorts and puttees on
pardon me (coughs), and I'm doing this and I'm getting a bit sore there, see, like this. And me
right hand under me left armpit and the next minute I withdraw me hand and a red back
spider. And as soon as I seen that they rushed me to the RAP at Murray Barracks and I think
they give me about eight bloody needles. They kept me in for twenty-four hours and from
there down to me toes I saturated the bloody sheets with the sweat or the poison or whatever
that was coming out. Yeah. I don't know what made me thinkof that but just talking about
Murray Barracks, yeah.
So, okay. So they began to realise that you were sick and after Lieutenant
Deakin got involved and how did they treat you?
Ah ... oh, excellent. I mean, ... I forget the what's-a-name but they got me right, you know.
Could you describe the hospital? What sort of a hospital was it?
Oh, this was in a big marquee and the sisters were marvellous, you know. And we only had
the old latrines, you know, dug in the ground for toilets and so on and those American
stretchers and we never seen a white woman for six or nine months the first time we were
there - the first six or nine months - until the Yanks started to move in. They brought the
Yank in. See, when we went over ...
You said the sisters, who did you mean?
Oh, hold on. Yeah, well this must have been ... yeah that would be nine months. After they
started to what's-a-name they brought the nurses back. When we went away on the Aquitania
they took nineteen nurses with them on the boat and, of course, in the meantime Rabaul had
fallen and so they decided against leaving the nurses there, so they took the nurses back with
them and all the civilian population from Moresby and them poor people had to walk out of
their nice homes and leave everything. It must have been awful for them, you know, like
leaving ... they could only carry so much what's-a-name. But all the bloody photos and
furniture and stuff like that round the town. And then when they gradually got on top they got
the nurses back, see, and then the Yanks moved, started to move in and we had bloody
pictures and everything at the finish and it made a big difference to the morale and that and ...
What were the Americans like?
Well, I got on all right with them. Only ... they used to invite you to come and see their
what's-a-name, their pictures. They had, they had everything. And when those - you know
those Liberty boats they made, I was down at the wharf there at different times doing a bit of
checking, like I used to check the cargo - this is after the what's-a-name, Owen Stanleys - and
I seen the equipment coming off, I thought it was coming from Mars, that's the way I'd
describe it, trench diggers and everything. You know, machinery that me being a country
farm boy had never seen had come straight from America and they reckon if the Liberty ship

paid for itself it would make one journey, which they do often I believe. But it was amazing.
And, of course, they had a lot ... their tucker was a lot better than ours too, oh a lot better. But
we had baked beans every morning for six months or more and I couldn't eat them for a
bloody, oh, a long time after I come back. But, in recent years, I ... that was one of the best
things we could have had, the old baked beans, because it's a great cholesterol fighter which I
didn't know. Baked beans and tinned sausages.
I would have thought cholesterol was the least of your problems on the
Kokoda Trail.
(15.00)Oh yeah, yeah, I know (laughs). But I'm just talking about in recent years more or
less. But, baked beans, oh gees, you know, you'd get 'em every morning, any, cold or hot, any
which way, you know. But, ... and we ... oh that's something someone mentioned, oh Harry
Mathews. They were short on water too you know. When we was at Porebarda we used to
have to bath in salt water - only had drinking water. And they had Lieutenant Norm
Gallagher who lived around in Boolaroo, he passed on about two years ago - he was in charge
of a section looking for water and he's got a mile of photos round there. By gees, he'd have
been the man to interview if you what's-a-name but he's gone now you see. And ... I've lost
concentration.
Well, just talking about in Moresby, how long were you around Moresby, you
know, convalescing?
Oh, I suppose ... now wait on, at least three months easy - might have been more. You lose
track of time but I ... something I was going to tell you then ... something to do with
Porebarda. Oh yeah, and they were getting short on tucker too. They cut us down to two
feeds a day.
Is this in Moresby?
Yeah. They cut the lunch/dinner out because they were getting short on what's-a-name.
Anyway, each company had a Bilko, you know Bilko the bloke on the what's-a-name? I've
always been a bit of a scrounger, anyway - this was when the Coral Sea battle was on - and
the trucks coming up from the wharf .... Now you know when you go along, you go out of
Moresby and you go along that what's-a-name, that ... is it Ela Beach where the palm trees
are, lovely spot isn't it - shady - and then you go out and you go up that hill?
Is it Ward's Road?
No, no. There's a Ward's Drome after our Colonel - incidentally, that's what we done, we
done that, started up with picks and shovels. But, no, Ela Beach I think it was and you go
along Ela Beach and you turn left and you go up a bloody mountain or hillside out towards
Murray Barracks. Well, and we .... They decided to put us in sections like nine of us and
what's-a-name here and there and we'd get so much bloody issued, like doled out to us and of
course we were living on the smell of an oily rag more or less. So me being a bit of a go-
getter, enterprising, I spotted these trucks coming up here from time to time in a convoy with
the goodies on it. So ... and they'd come along - on that side of the what's-a-name the ground
just run away and there's an embankment on this side, see. Well, I used to get up - I thought,
'Oh Jesus, I'll do something about this' - so I used to wait for the last truck and I'd jump off the
bloody - 'cause they were only labouring up the hill, it was no trouble particularly when you

was active - jump off the bloody what's-a-name, onto the back of the truck, on the last one so
they couldn't see and I'd throw off a bag of sugar, a carton of tinned peaches or whatever,
anything, and M and V, bully beef and for a while we were living like bloody kings and it got
round by word of mouth and everyone was coming over to us so it didn't last. But we had a
bit of a picnic there for a while. But that was part and parcel of some of the - like instances
that come to mind.
Did you get caught?
No, no, no. No, you know, that's that what's-a-name, little bit of a gamble, you know, how to
survive. Yeah, by gees, we went well for a while.
That was before you went up the Kokoda Trail?
Yeah. That's when (coughs) - pardon me - the Coral Sea battle was on. 'Cause how I
remember so vividly as where we were positioned is what's-a-name and the trucks used to go
past, see, and they'd bring the rations out, they'd dole them out every day, see and all we had
to do as cook in a kerosene tin and it was catch as catch can sort of thing. And that's how
that come about, but it didn't last.
What about, just going back to that early period, what was the relationship
between ordinary soldiers and say sergeants and corporals?
Oh pretty good, pretty good with our mob, yeah. Now this bloke - a funny thing you
mentioned that - Mousie Ball, oh a couple of years ago we was having a bit of a yarn there at
what's-a-name - and Billy Elliott he was a corporal then, he got his third stripe - and Mouse
used to always to - Billy was there listening - he said, referring to him and I - Mouse and I and
that and a couple of us - we made him, like Elliott sort of thing, yeah (laughs). So it was a
good relationship, yeah. Oh crikey, yeah. As a matter of fact, I'm looking for him .... My
platoon sergeant, a fellow by the name of Mick Davies, I never seen him since we left bloody
the Owens, and the corporal Clem Bruce, they were bloody just like brothers, you know, like
the relationship, and we've never sighted them and the bloke from Gorokan, Rajah Jones and I
we've been trying to find a way how to bloody contact 'em, you know, through the repatriation
or I was thinking I might write to the headquarters in Victoria. I got the address off a bloke
from the Repat, he told me, so I haven't got round to doing it yet. I'm a great gunna - I'm
going to do this and going to do that but I'm a bit like Pa Kettle (laughs).
(20.00)Just going back to Moresby, I mean, were you still .... The 53rd was disbanded, what
had happened to you? I mean, you're in this hospital?
Oh yeah, yeah. Well after - see, after the Kokoda campaign I wasn't ... they put you in from
out of the front-line fighting sort of thing into a secondary battalion ... secondary unit sort of
thing. Well, that's when I went to the Town Major's gang. Quite a few of them from the 53rd
...
What was that? If you just say that more slowly, what was the name of that?
The Town Major's gang, that's the title, that was the title and the Town Major's gang consisted
of, I was going to say misfits, but not actually misfits, like blokes that were sort of had been
passed by the doctor unfit for front-line service and ... their job was to - the Town Major's

gang - was to keep the town in order, tidy, unload boats and all that sort of thing round
Moresby itself in the town and we used to camp in Burns Philps. There was Burns Philp and
Steamships wasn't there? Either one of them, a big store it was. And when the boys hit the
bloody - when they had to get out, it was full of kimonos and everything but I was out at
Porebarda then so, I'm not saying that I wouldn't have been in it like the rest of them I
suppose. I know Rajah Jones got the kimonos and he got this and that but I don't know how
they ever got 'em home. Some blokes, they tell me, particularly lieutenants and that, were
sending home bloody refrigerators and all but they confiscated them at Townsville - this is
what we heard, yeah. But there you are, bloody marvellous. But, oh, it was a great
experience.
We had a great relationship with ... with our non-commissioned officers, you know, sergeants
and corporals and even the what's-a-name, Knocker Campbell, he was one of our lieutenants
that was with us all the way from Ingleburn and that, I haven't seen him. He was a bloody
champion too, he was a good bloke. And we had a ... C Company had a bloke named Jeff
Bolenton, he was a good swimmer in Australia years ago, I don't know if you've ever heard of
him or not, he got killed at Bougainville I think. But, yeah, we had a great relationship with
... generally speaking, you know, you couldn't find fault with them.
How did you come to leave .... What happened .... How did you get back to
Australia?
Well, we never thought we'd ever get back. The battalion had come home and what's-a-name,
when we went to the Town Major's gang was sort of on a what's-a-name scale, you know,
how long you'd been there or whatever and I had a terrific trip home. I come home on the
Duntroon. She brought up about, I forget how many troops - she was loaded - but there was
only fifty of us on board coming back. She had to come back to Sydney and dry dock. I got
me photo on the front page of the Telegraph, on the top deck.
What for?
Well, I don't know .... Troops home from the New Guinea front. I've got it in there
somewhere and I can't find it. But I've still got it, it's not a bad photo either.
What date?
It was in April ... I'm not sure - April '44 I think.
'44, not '43?
Oh no, no.
So you were working around Port Moresby for about eighteen months after
you came back?
Yeah, more or less, yeah. Oh Jesus, I was spewing over the side before the boat left the
bloody Port Moresby wharf because I got into a bucket of ice-cream. And the beauty of it - I
suppose you've experienced these nice places - they had, down the officers' quarters, they had
a silver tray with a handle on it and baked potatoes on one and pumpkin on that - that's how
they used to serve us - and, oh gees, we were eating like lords, 'cause there was only fifty of

us on board, see. Oh gees, we couldn't make it out. And they told us they were confiscating
all cigarettes at Sydney and we all had a kit bag full of Yankee cigarettes and you wouldn't
want to know, we fell for it. We left them behind and when we gets to Sydney, there's a
ration on tobacco and cigarettes. We had the money but you couldn't buy 'em.
They didn't confiscate them?
No, no, they didn't. Because, you know, they didn't even check anything. Yeah, bloody
marvellous.
Who got the cigarettes?
Oh, we left them behind with the blokes that was staying there, you know, back in Moresby,
yeah. Yeah, we've kicked ourselves ever since then, those days, yeah.
So, that eighteen months that you were around Port Moresby, you must have
seen, I mean, you know, the life in the Town Major's gang, could you talk
about that a bit more?
(25.00)Well, I'll tell you one instance particularly. The hospital ship Manunda. She was in at
the wharf one night. And a blaze of lights and when our planes used to go out to hit Rabaul
when they came back they used to have to circle - you know that opening you go in out there
at the open sea at Moresby - they used to have to circle that three times, I think it was three
times, identification for Parker Battery. You know Parker Battery the naval station. Anyway,
it didn't take the Japs long to cotton on to that and they followed them back one night, you
know, the Japs followed our planes back and they bloody rained bombs down all over the
place. The lights were on, we was in Burns Philp and everyone was caught nappin' and there
wasn't much bloody damage and the bombs rained all down around the Macdhui and never ...
You mean the Manunda?
Yeah, the Manunda, I mean the Manunda the hospital ship. All a blaze of lights and never
got a scratch. That's something to write about, write home about. We couldn't believe it.
Just going back a bit earlier while we're talking about ships, did you see the
Macdhui get dunked?
Oh yeah, I did, yeah. Bird's eye view. Do you know Konedobu around from Moresby? Well,
we were up in the hills a bit, stationed there at the time - months and time you lose track of,
see, unless you put 'em down - and the Macdhui made, oh, numerous runs to get out to the
bloody open sea but couldn't make it. They went up and down, up and down, and straight
down the bloody funnel. And I think - I'm not certain of this - but I think there was some 39th
or 49th blokes working on the boat, unloading, and they never had time to get off and they got
killed too. But honestly, there was talk about it. But we had a bird's eye view like up there.
We was sort of in a valley and like, looking straight into the harbour and it was, you know,
something that ... something you'd always remember. And she burnt .... It burnt, the flames
gone out now but they burned for a bloody long time, the flame.
What happened after she got hit?

Well, all I know, they brought everything, what they could scrape and put it on the foreshores
there near the ...
Didn't they run her aground or something like that?
Oh well, all I know is that .... I don't know about running her aground, but where that - it's
still sticking out of the water isn't it? - well, that's where it finished up in that particular area
there somewhere. But I know they tried to get out but they didn't make it. That was the only
one they bloody got too and they dropped a lot of bombs there at different times. But I'll
never forget night there .... We was there for a fortnight on the side of the hill at Simpson's
Gap and we moved out like the night and the next b oody night they hit it. I don't know ...
we'd have copped some there if we'd have been there. We wouldn't have been prepared.
There's nothing, there's no bloody protection, nothin' dug or nothin', see.
Tell me a bit more about the Major's work gang? How was it organised?
Well, I don't know ... I don't know. I forget, we had an old major, he was an elderly man, I
forget his name too now - Major something - that's how they called it the Town Major's gang.
And we done - we were allotted certain jobs to do every day. I was - they had me as a
checker, you know, checking the stuff coming off the ... on the what's-a-names, and had other
blokes down the hold. And sometimes there'd be a crate of beer go over the side and they
floated it down towards where the Macdhui got hit and they'd go out in a lakatoy and pick it
up. Things like that, you know. You know what the digger's like. And then there was
general maintenance round the town and tidying up and picking up rubbish and all that sort of
thing. Yeah, that's about the strength of it.
END OF TAPE 2 - SIDE A
START OF TAPE 2 - SIDE B
Identification: This is second side, second tape, Mick Button. End of
identification.
So, I mean, there in Port Moresby, what ... how was the ... the entertainment
side of it must have improved by late '43, '44?
It only improved when the Yanks started to move in with their, their what's-a-name, with the
movies and if we wasn't on duty we could go and see a movie every night and it was, that was
a big thing. And another thing I can always remember, there's no possible way the American
coons would stay in Moresby of a night time. They'd get on the trucks and get right out of
town.
Why?
Oh, they didn't like them air-raids. But we ... we took our chances with ... you know. But
there's no ... you'd see 'em into them big bloody trucks the Yanks had and there they'd go and
you could bet your life they wouldn't stay in town.
How did the Americans and the Australians get on? Any fights?

No, nothin' like it was in the cities and that when they had that big blue they had in Brisbane
many years ago. No, it was pretty reasonable over there I think, yeah. No, they were quite
amiable, quite chummy, you know. And we used to go to the camps, and like, get to know
them. We used to go to their camps of a night time to watch the pictures and that and it was a
bloody, a great thing. And I think we even got some ice-cream off them one night one night,
one time. And, which you know, was, I thought, Jesus, we used to say they used to give them
VCs for eating so much ice-cream. Or the Purple Heart I mean. But, yeah, oh no, it made a
big difference.
And bloody .... A matter of fact one night at Murray Barracks, I'd been in hospital, it must
have been when I come out of hospital. When you come out of hospital you go to Murray
Barracks before you went back to your unit wherever you was ... going to. And this particular
night we went to a Yankee camp and seen the pictures and Cobber was with them that night,
he was in the what's-a-name and we come back home - there was a air-raid on incidentally
during the what's-a-name, but you haven't got to worry about air-raids if you're not in the
flight what's-a-name ...
Flight zone.
Yeah, you haven't got to worry about the what's-a-name, see they won't divert and ... so we
didn't ... well, after being experienced in bombing raids. And so, anyway, the picture's over
and we go back and we have a cup of coffee and go to bed and in the morning we hear the
bloody picks and shovels clicking - you know the noise - and we just pulls the flap back like
that and you wouldn't want to know, just out the back of the tent there was a 500-pound bomb
sticking out of the ... and that's fair dinkum and it never went off. By Jesus, we got out of
there very smartly. (laughs) No, fair dinkum, it was there all bloody night, yeah. That's
another little what's-a-name, you know, anecdote, whatever you like to call it. Yeah, yeah,
that's ... Oh there's some bloody humorous things, the good and the bad. But that's something
else I remember too.
What about two-up?
(5.00) No, a funny thing, you know, what's-a-name, would you believe, I wouldn't know how
to play two-up. I was never .... I never had the money. Although I'm a punter, I have a go ...
but this come later in life and I was never a card player. See, when, when Dad died, we's on
five bob a day, I made a lot for me mother, two and six and I was on two and six a day, and,
of course, I mean, that wouldn't buy you peanuts. And Mousie Ball and Winterbottom and a
few of them on the Aquitania, they made a thousand quid between Sydney and Moresby
running Crown and Anchor. See, and I was their bloody - I knew 'em, we were all pretty
close and I wasn't interested in the gambling in those days, being a country farm boy and I
always refer to that - to me as that, and I used to get ... if they wanted anything, I was their
gopher, you might say. I didn't know that ... that word wasn't about those days but I didn't
mind because I used to like it. I liked their company and if they wanted refreshments or
whatever, I'd dig something up for them and they'd give me a little bit of a what's-a-name, see.
But I never, I never played two-up in me life and people can't believe that, but I never ... and,
you know, it's a great old thing, isn't it, particularly on ANZAC Day. But never, never played
it in me life. But a lot ... of course, they all did, the majority of them did.
Coming back to the return to Sydney, what happened when you got back into
Sydney in '44?

Well, what happened now, let's see. Well, we was the colour of a Jap because of the Atebrin
they stuck into us; yellow as anything. And we ... what happened then, we had twenty-eight
days' leave and I spent a few days down in Five Dock with the two mates I met, they come
from Five Dock, was in Don Company with me. And then, because I had to head for home, I
wanted to get home. I think I only had, spent a couple of days down there then and I wanted
to get home to Mum and them and I come home. And me brother always had a pony in those
days and I used to throw the saddle on it every morning and go around and visit all the locals
'cause in those days everyone knew everyone in those days which of course is altogether
different now, everyone's grown up and I don't know a sole up there now, only Trevor King
and Dick Wright the sergeant and the odd one or two. But I used to go around on the horse
and it was great riding around the town and visiting different ones I knew all me life and
having a beer here and there sort of thing. And we had twenty-eight days' leave and I don't
suppose it hurt to ... to say, when we had the twenty-eight days' leave we reported back to the
Showground on time, the three of us, at eight o'clock. At nine o'clock we was on draft back to
Moresby and we found out that our battalion was at ... the 53rd and 55th Battalion was at
Alligator Creek about seventeen mile out of Townsville. But what we didn't realise though,
we didn't actually belong to the 53rd then, see. But anyway, it never entered our head, but we
wanted to get back with them see and with the same blokes and that. And anyway, we went
to the Captain Cook Hotel in Sydney, off the Showground and we had a conference the three
of us and it lasted twenty-eight days - we went AWOL twenty-eight days. So ...
Where did you go?
Oh, just hanging around Sydney. And the ... Rajah Jones, he was married, and the other two
Cobber and meself weren't and, of course, he was under pressure from his wife and I knew, I
didn't want to get a dishonourable discharge so, I said, 'What about we head for the bloody
border', like head for Townsville which we did. We jumped the troop train, unofficially, all
the way. Got picked up at Brisbane, down in the valley, and I spoke to the marshal of provos
and all .... The only reason why we got picked up there because we got a bit impatient and we
wanted to have a look at Brisbane and all we had to do was get a day's leave pass and he,
being a very reasonable man, he took us at our word, if we go back to the what's-a-name and
get a pass everything will be all right, which we did do. And, anyway, we done that and the
next day we went to, on the train for Townsville. When we got to Townsville, Alligator
Creek, under open arrest straightaway - close arrest, whatever - and we had a court martial.
And Rajah and I, we got ninety days field punishment and the other bloke got seventy and by
gees they made us fit at a place called Ross River out of Townsville.
What was it like being in ... whatever they called it? Did they call it the brig,
or what did they call it?
No ... oh ... field punishment centre it was. It had FPC on the bloody ... you know, on your
registration thing with your number, you know, on front of your car and what's-a-name and
we used to go out on work parties. Do you know Townsville at all?
Oh, not much.
(10.00)No, anyway, we used to have to bloody shovel rock and stuff up on Castle Hill and
they made us fit and .... And when you was in the compound you'd have to ... if you wanted
to go to the latrine, the latrine sergeant, and you'd have to jog everywhere. And they got me

up to thirteen stone four and I was bloody all bone and muscle - by gees, they got me fit.
And, anyway, we was out doing a job one day on a working party and some blokes from my
home town - and this is another fair dinkum story - FPC was the name and number one, two,
seven or whatever, and two or three blokes from me home town that I've known all me life.
'Who you with now, Mick?' and they were looking and I said, 'The Field Pay Corps' just like
that. It just come out of the bloody blue, I didn't tell them I was in the Field what's-a-name
Corporal Punishment Centre. And anyway, and in the meantime, unbeknown, Cobber the
bloke who only got seventy days, done his time, and went back to the battalion and they
wouldn't accept him. So, what he done, he planted his gear in the bush - rifle and gear and all
- and he hung around till we got out sort of thing and anyway, someone knocked all his
bloody gear off. He was a bachelor but he had a few quid see, he'd wire home for money to
Five Dock and, anyway, it was my turn to come out with Rajah and Rajah got a bit cheeky -
that's the bloke that lives at Gorokan - and they kept him in gaol, in the what's-a-name, for
another three days and put him on bread and water because he got a bit cheeky. But,
unbeknownst to me, they'd recommended me to our colonel for an NCO school from the
bloody ... yeah, from the Field Punishment Centre. (Interviewer laughs) So I must ... no, I
did perform well in the what's-a-name. See, 'cause I wanted ... I mean, I know there was no
ending to it sort of thing and it was the best thing that ever happened to me, see, and they
accepted me but they wouldn't take the other two and that's how it was. Yeah. It was bloody
amaz.... It was the best thing I ever done. But they done ... 'cause I mean I, as I said,
complacency, you know. xxx got away and went there again too, but that's what happened.
Then you came out and became a corporal?
No, no. I didn't bloody what's-a-name. I was quite satisfied, I become ... you wouldn't
believe it but I finished up batman for the bloody ... the bloody, the colonel of the bloody
camp of the battalion. Well, he wasn't ... he was a major, Major ...
This is the 55th/53rd Battalion?
Yeah, yeah. And we done a, done a ... three months' training up at Red Island Point at a
place called Jackie Jackie about thirty miles from Cape York and then we come back to
Redcliff in Brisbane and they reallocated the battalion again. See, we didn't know, but they
were getting ready for Bougainville and they reallocated me again and that's where I met me
waterloo in the AMWARS. She was in the ...
AWAS. [Wife speaking]
AWAS, yeah. I went for a big staging camp at Redbank, and that's it.
How come you didn't go to Bougainville?
Well, they ... I wasn't fit enough for them but, there you are, that's how it was.
So how did you end up at the end of the war? What were you doing at the end
of the war?
Um, what was I doing at the end of the war? You won't believe this but I was in the
headquarters of south-west Pacific ah, what's-a-name intelligence headquarters, me of all
people. But I was ... xxx Doomben(?) racecourse. The Yanks - it was a bloody amazing set-

up - the Yanks there was Yanks, Dutch, Netherlands, British; they were all there. And they
put me in charge of the officers' mess and Jesus, even though I say to you I done a good job
too and that's why (sic) I finished up till I got .... It was time for me to, to come home to
Greta and wait me turn to get out, to be discharged. But ... oh, we were to go to bloody
Manila the day the war ended. We had the gear packed and everything to fly out. They were
moving over there. So I missed out on a bloody good trip to Manila but that, that couldn't be
helped.
Well, looking back on it all, how do you feel about the war and your
experiences in the war?
Well, taking it altogether I think, you know, that's (dog barks) We were due to go to Manila
as I said, and the war ended. And then I, I got sent home to ... we all got sent to the nearest
camp to our home town to wait and they done it in stages, you know, like - I forget the word -
how many points you had up before you get discharged and I think was 1946. (Dogs
barking). Bloody kill 'em.
Um, right. Just last question. Looking back on the war, how do you feel about
it in terms of how it changed you and how it affected you?
(15.00)Well, how can I answer that. Well, I think .... I think it ... I think it served me in good
stead for civilian life. You know, I mean, I don't know how to put it but all I can say is that I
have had no regrets. Those things, like the war has happened and I met some terrific people,
wonderful blokes and that, and I still, I still look ... I can see meself on bloody on the old
Moresby wharf today, like you know. I sit on the side of the bed and what's-a-name and it
don't hurt me and think of the different blokes that I knew and the trip on the Aquitania, the
ordeal, endurance on the Kokoda Trail and the conditions and, you know, generally speaking,
I got no ... no complaints and I really have enjoyed meeting you and with this interview. And
I mean what I said about that ... your temperament and you're got to have it for what you do.
And ...
(16.00)I'll switch off at this stage.
END OF TAPE 2 - SIDE B

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