Donor Care In Challenging Times Daryl Upsall

How to make sure your donor continues to love you in good times and in bad Daryl Upsall National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 1 26 March 2009

Speaker Background – Daryl Upsall • 25 years working in NGOs • Worked in fundraising, campaigning and communication in 40+ countries • Headed Greenpeace global fundraising for 8 years and responsible for raising more than $1 billion for Greenpeace and increased global committed giving from 18% to 60% of income • Director of 4 fundraising agencies in Spain (Telephone, Face to Face, Consulting, Corporate Fundraising) with over 300 staff • Very focused on recruiting and retaining regular committed donors • Clients are mainly international NGOs and Spanish charities and 80% of Spanish fundraising NGOs • Based in Madrid with clients in 12 countries and most of the international HQ of INGOs and UN agencies National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 2 26 March 2009

Daryl Upsall Consulting International SL Client List - International HQs • ActionAid International • MORI • Age Concern International • MSF Access to Medicines Campaign • Blackbaud • MarViva • CARE International • Oak Foundation • Charles Darwin Foundation • Pew Environment Group • Christian Aid • Red Cross (IFRC) • Christian Blind Mission • Save the Children International Alliance • Christian Children's Fund • Social Accountability International • Club de Madrid • SOS Kinderdorf International • Concern Worldwide • The Antarctica Project • Covenant House/Casa Allianza • The Brooke • Deaf Child Worldwide • The Climate Group • Drugs for Neglected Diseases Initiative (DNDi) • The Global Fund • European Critical Care Foundation • UN – Food and Agriculture Organisation • Foundation Theodora • UNESCO • DARA Foundation • UNHCR • Global Reporting Initiative • UNICEF • Greenpeace International • United Bible Society • Habitat for Humanity International • World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts • HelpAge International • WSPA • International Deaf Children's Society • World Villages for Children • International Institute for Strategic Studies • WWF International • Merlin National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 3 26 March 2009

National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 4 26 March 2009

Is it really that bad? quot;What's the difference between Iceland and Ireland? …..One letter and six months.quot; National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 6 26 March 2009

There is no crystal ball for the impact on fundraising Hannah Jordan, Third Sector, 3 March 200 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 10 26 March 2009

There is no crystal ball..only contradictory evidence • In February UK the Charitable Giving Report, a monthly survey of 30,000 UK donors reported that nearly half did not intend to change their charitable giving over the next six months, although a third planned to give less. • In contrast, only 15% of respondents to a survey carried out in November 2008 said they would reduce their donations. • A direct mail test by the Prostate Cancer Charity in January indicated that donors were less likely to give if the tough economic climate was mentioned in the text of mailings .. but other organisations have reported that the opposite is the case. National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 11 26 March 2009

There is no crystal ball..only contradictory evidence • 71% of UK charities forecast income growth in 2009 Poll by Blackbaud in October 2008 • 27% of UK donors are already giving less and 11.5% have stopped giving according to a European poll from Survey Sampling Inter-national in November 2008 • 15% of donors plan to give less in the next year DMS/CCB Fastmap research in November 2008 • 33% of donors will give less in the coming six months, but 50% will not change Tangible Response's Charitable Giving Report in February • 55% of fundraisers think the worst-hit cause area will be arts and culture in an international poll launched form the International Fundraising Congress in October 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 12 26 March 2009

There is no crystal ball..only contradictory evidence • Cass Business School's Charity Market Monitor 2008, for example, warned of a marked slowdown in income growth in 2009. • 71% of UK fundraisers surveyed by IT firm Blackbaud in a European poll last October predicted continued growth, with 50 per cent expecting online donations to increase. • Fundraising consultant Martin Kaufman told delegates at last year's Institute of Fundraising Conference Scotland to slash parts of their fundraising budgets. • But a paper presented by another consultant, Tony Elischer, a month before advised fundraisers not to cut any part of their budgets. National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 13 26 March 2009

Information Información National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 14 26 March 2009

=mc Global Fundraising Confidence Survey for IFC This report analyses the responses to a global online survey undertaken over 5 days by the Management Centre (=mc) as part of the IFC conference in October 2008. It was analysed by =mc’s knowledge management expert David Segal. National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 15 26 March 2009

=mc Global Fundraising Confidence Survey for IFC • Specifically the survey sought the views of 100 leading worldwide fundraising thinkers on: • How serious the financial crisis is- and the broad strategy fundraisers should adopt in response to this global phenomenon? • where in terms of ‘cause’- children, environment, faith etc- these international experts think the financial crisis will impact most? • what action our experts thought fundraising directors should take to prepare for the emerging changes? National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 16 26 March 2009

=mc Global Fundraising Confidence Survey for IFC Level of Impact Average Weighted Responses by Region 0 10 20 30 40 50 Arts heritage and culture International development Science and scientific research Human rights All of the above Animal welfare and rights Elders/older people causes Disability and disability rights Education Medical research Health The environment International emergency relief Faith based causes National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 17 Children's causes 26 March 2009 N America Africa, Asia and Latin America Europe, ANZ and M East

=mc Global Fundraising Confidence Survey for IFC Problem Perspective 0% 10% 20% 30% 40% No matter what happens we need to fight for market share now- expansion is the only option this a major problem- it will reduce donations if we don’t take effective action this a major problem- but it will ‘blow over’ and donations will start to grow in 2/3 years anyway No matter what happens we need to take action now to reduce costs- pragmatism is the only option this a major problem- it will massively reduce donations and we need National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland to accept that 18 26 March 2009

=mc Global Fundraising Confidence Survey for IFC Level of Impact 0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 Arts heritage and culture International development Animal welfare and rights Science and scientific research The environment Human rights Elders/older people causes Disability and disability rights Education Health Faith based causes Medical research International emergency relief Children's causes National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 19 All of the above 26 March 2009 1 (relatively low) 2 3 4 5 (extremely severe)

=mc Global Fundraising Confidence Survey for IFC Level of Impact Average Weighted Responses by Region 0 10 20 30 40 50 Arts heritage and culture International development Science and scientific research Human rights All of the above Animal welfare and rights Elders/older people causes Disability and disability rights Education Medical research Health The environment International emergency relief Faith based causes National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 20 Children's causes 26 March 2009 N America Africa, Asia and Latin America Europe, ANZ and M East

Donor outlook less gloomy amongst core supporters The propensity of hardcore non-donors to say they have given, or will give, “less” to charities during a downturn – when they don’t give anything anyway – may be painting an overly-gloomy picture of voluntary revenues in the third sector, National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 22 26 March 2009

Donor outlook less gloomy amongst core supporters • Those more likely to say they either have given less, or will give less, to charity during an economic downturn are less likely to have given anything anyway! • Charities should focus on their actual core donor pool, which remains resilient - especially amongst regular DD/SO donors - survey finds • “Charities should identify and woo their core donors, ignoring non-donors claiming to give less than the nothing they actually give,” National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 23 26 March 2009

“charities should identify and woo their core donors” • Reliable, hard financial data measuring the actual impact of the economic downturn on donations won’t be available for a while. • This research suggests the picture may not be quite so bad as the top-line figures might suggest • Those people more likely to claim a past or future cut in their donations to charities are also more likely to not, in truth, be donating any money anyway; • Hardcore of actual donors are significantly less negative about giving, especially if they are regular DD/SO givers. • Thus, charities should identify and woo their core donors - and ‘tough out’ any fair weather donors who may flake away, or any chorus of non-donors claiming to give less than the nothing they actually give!” nfp synergy National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 31 26 March 2009

Sounds familiar? What is going on in Ireland? Is there reliable data available? National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 32 26 March 2009

Recession and Impacts on Fundraising What do we think will happen? National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 33 26 March 2009

Fundraising Techniques National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 34 26 March 2009

Recession and Impacts on Fundraising • A major recession will educate donors to act When money is hard to find the donor offer has to be compelling they will shop around to choose the ones “meeting my life choices/values”. • Corporate fundraising: possibly the first area to show signs of moving to a static position and then decline. Already we have seen deals falling through that have taken many months of planning and negotiations. Tony Elisher © THINK Consulting Solutions 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 35 26 March 2009

Recession and Impacts on Fundraising • Foundations: no immediate effect in this area as grants are distributed based on the financial performance of their portfolios twelve to twenty four months ago, but the impact may be significant in the future depending on where and how the foundation’s assets are invested and managed. • Individuals: this is going to be a slow burn as the impact of the recession hits the different aspects of people’s lives. Already visible in markets such as the USA, UK, Netherlands, Ireland is the effect on the key area of recruitment of new donors.USA will be hit hardest as has least EFT monthly giving Tony Elisher © THINK Consulting Solutions 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 36 26 March 2009

Recession and Impacts on Fundraising • Events: in the hardest hit markets we have already seen the early signs ofhow high net worth individuals (HNWIs) are going to respond to ‘glitzy’ charity events, they are simply not willing to pay the premium price required for such occasions. • Major Giving: this has certainly been the growth area of the last few years so there is considerable resource and expectation riding on this technique andsource. Early signs are of a considerable slow down in HNWI’s willing to make commitments, pledges or close gifts Tony Elisher © THINK Consulting Solutions 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 37 26 March 2009

Recession and Impacts on Fundraising • Direct Marketing: the challenge I believe is to focus more on the different channels used in a programme, how diverse are they? Have you got enough? Can you be flexible and move around in real time? • Legacies: UK charities are already seeing reductions of up to 30% of the value of estates, so re-forecasting may be necessary. • Community: the loyalty and the connection in this area should form a strong basis of support to help a charity through the next eighteen months, but again realistic expectations around financial support will be required. Tony Elisher © THINK Consulting Solutions National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 38 26 March 2009

Cancellations of charity direct-debit donations soar Cancellations of direct-debit payments to charities has rocketed, according to a report by payment processor firm Rapidata. • The Charity Direct Debit Tracking Report 2009 shows that the number of people cancelling their direct debits each month has substantially increased as the recession has deepened. • The financial year 2008-2009 also saw monthly cancellation rates exceed 5% on four separate occasions; July, September, October and January. National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 39 26 March 2009

Cancellations of charity direct-debit donations soar • September 2008, 50% more people cancelled their direct debits than in the average pre- recession September, • December 2008, 67% more cancellations of direct debits than for the average pre-recession December National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 40 26 March 2009

Cancellations of charity direct- debit donations soar Scott Gray, Managing Director of Rapidata: “In these troubled times charities need to shift away from an emphasis on acquiring new donors to looking after current donors.” National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 41 26 March 2009

Special Challenges in Ireland • Philanthropy in Ireland is a relatively young enterprise. • Atlantic Philanthropies highlights that there is still significant potential to grow philanthropy in Ireland only 12% of the population currently gives in a planned way • Ireland has accumulated significant wealth since the heady days of the Celtic Tiger and all this wealth has not disappeared. • Seems to be significant potential for growth in gifts from individuals, particularly in major gifts. Source: Fundraising in a Cold Climate -An Analysis by 2into3 Dennis O’Connor Deirdre Hatch National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 42 26 March 2009

Fundraising in a Cold Climate An Analysis by 2into3 6th October 2008 Prepared by: Dennis O’Connor Deirdre Hatch Source: Fundraising in a Cold Climate -An Analysis by 2into3 Dennis O’Connor Deirdre Hatch National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 43 26 March 2009

What is Likely to Happen Now in Ireland? Given the number of different factors at play, and the lack of data in an Irish context, it is: • Very difficult to predict the impact that economic conditions are likely to have on fundraising in Ireland. • Based on historic evidence, undoubtedly for some the impact will be felt strongly in a negative way, but for others, the impact is less certain and may even be positive. Source: Fundraising in a Cold Climate -An Analysis by 2into3 Dennis O’Connor Deirdre Hatch National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 44 26 March 2009

Facing the fundraising challenges of the global economic crisis “In good times and bad, we know that people give because you meet needs, not because you have needs.” Kay Sprinkel Grace National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 45 26 March 2009

Recession – Watching is not an Option • Hold strong: now is not a time to panic or be swept away by the depressing media hype. Accept that recession is a reality, understand its impact in your country and take action to protect your programmes and charity income. • Consult: surviving recession is a team game so recognise you are part of several teams, all of which can help you: your department, your charity, your profession and the sector. Tony Elischer © THINK Consulting Solutions 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 46 26 March 2009

Recession – Watching is not an Option • Learn: look around you like never before and make your own assessments of what is happening. Learn from the commercial sector and from other charities • Communicate: increase the communication with donors, its relevance, frequency, methods and effectiveness to share the charity’s thinking and to take them along with you Tony Elischer © THINK Consulting Solutions 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 47 26 March 2009

Recession – Watching is not an Option • Reforecast/remodel: in this climate you really can’t afford to set an annual budget and simply get on with things, at the very least quarterly reviews will be more important than ever before with the ability to re-cut figures and plans • Empathise: balance thinking about the needs of your organisation with thinking about the needs and life style of your donors • Keep asking: against all these points we have to remember the central role of a fundraiser is to ask for support Tony Elischer © THINK Consulting Solutions 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 48 26 March 2009

Recession – Watching is not an Option • Be realistic: even if you have invested twelve months planning a new programme do not plough on as if nothing is happening, revisit and re-cut your thinking. • Embrace: the new climate and world because the world we knew yesterday will never return, the smart fundraiser lives and moves with today not yesterday. Tony Elischer © THINK Consulting Solutions 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 49 26 March 2009

Solutions seem to come in numbers… “Wherever there is a human being, there is an opportunity for kindness.” Seneca National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 50 26 March 2009

Fundraising recession watch quot;Good fundraisers raise more money in a recession. Bad fundraisers use it as an excuse.“ http://www.recessionwatch.blogspot.com National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 51 26 March 2009

What Can your Organisation Do? 1. Examine your income streams. Not all income streams will be affected in the same way. 2. Diversify your income streams. Over dependency on one type of income stream, one person or one company is far from ideal.. 3. Focus on donor retention, through focusing more than ever on donor cultivation and donor stewardship. 4. Keep communicating with your donors. Focus on the importance of the cause rather than the organisation In addition, focus on long term plans and transparency in how money will be spent – 5. Do not stop efforts to try to find new donors. Given the gloomy outlook and the increased difficulty in finding new donors. Source: Fundraising in a Cold Climate -An Analysis by 2into3 Dennis O’Connor Deirdre Hatch National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 52 26 March 2009

What Can your Organisation Do? 7. Keep in touch with people who have stopped making donations keeping the relationship alive is likely to increase the chance that donors will resume giving when they can. 8. Research, research, research. Be aware of the environment and adjust your approach accordingly. 9. Consider your use of planned giving, including regular giving and legacies. 10. Avoid fundraising cuts if possible. This can have a negative impact and It can also cause problems with donor retention, if donor stewardship services are neglected. Source: Fundraising in a Cold Climate -An Analysis by 2into3 Dennis O’Connor Deirdre Hatch National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 53 26 March 2009

Five tips for nonprofits in an economic downturn 1. Run a nonprofit like a for-profit business. 2. Treat your donors like gold. 3. Be innovative. 4. Diversity the overall fundraising program. 5. Pay attention to detail. Cathy Lanyard, Executive Director of the American Friends of ALYN Hospital National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 54 26 March 2009

Six Ways to Survive the Economic Storm 1. Don't curl into a fetal position. In other words, do not stop doing things that are important or even risky to raise money. The same old same old isn't going to cut it this year. This is not the time to be steered by fear. 2. Set realistic goals. The numbers are likely to be down. So manage to that. 3. Don't abuse your existing donors. You should spend more time thanking them and making them feel great. Then they'll tell their friends about you. National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 55 26 March 2009

Six Ways to Survive the Economic Storm 4. Get online today. If you're not already online, GET ONLINE and ask for lots of SMALL DONATIONS, including recurring monthly gifts 5. Don't undersell yourself. In an era when so many investments look like they're offering low returns, you are priceless. For a few dollars, they get a helper's high. They feel good because they did good 6. Admit to donors that it's hard. While explaining that you're a great investment, admit that your numbers are down.Ask now, because things are going to get worse before they get better. National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 56 26 March 2009

10 ways to... survive an economic downturn 1. Focus on retaining customers. 2. Provide outstanding customer service. 3. Increase your marketing. 4. Concentrate on products and services that sell. 5. Credit check new customers. 6. Mind your cashflow. 7. Avoid borrowing. 8. Cut your costs 9. Streamline your operation 10. Sell online Source: Institute of Directors (UK) January 2009 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 57 26 March 2009

10 Strategies for Recession Fundraising 1. Don’t treat giving as a financial transaction. Tell donors how their giving is making the world a better place and don’t just focus on the perks they will receive. 2. Keep close ties to donors. Don’t make your only contact with donors be solicitations. Focus on thanking and showing impact. Find ways to let donors see the impact for themselves. 3. Offer matching grants. Ask a loyal donor or funder to provide the match. 4. Ask donors to give monthly. …and by direct debit!!! 5. Look for ways to save money on fundraising. Trim special event expenses or eliminate programs that aren’t serving you well. Look for ways to move your communications online. 6. Seek alternatives to soliciting private donations. Can you rent some of your space to another organization? Start a social enterprise? Develop a cause-marketing partnership with a corporation? National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 58 26 March 2009

10 Strategies for Recession Fundraising 7. Collaborate to raise money. You can have greater impact and generate more attention by working with other NGOs 8. Scale back ambitious campaigns, but don’t give up on them. You may have to scale back on the goal or increase the length of your “quiet phase” where the lead gifts are solicited. 9. Avoid emergency solicitations. Asking donors to bail you out or save you from impending demise is not an appealing message 10. Shore up relations with grant makers. Keep paying attention to them. Be on their list when giving resumes, by being in touch and continuing to show them you are making a difference. National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 59 26 March 2009

“When we recognize that a better word for fundraising is quot;friend raising,quot; we open limitless doors to creativity in support of our causes.” Sue Vineyard National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 60 26 March 2009

Make better use of the telephone in donor relationship management “Appreciation can make a day--even change a life, Your willingness to put it into words is all that is necessary.” Margaret Cousins National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 61 26 March 2009

Why use the telephone ? • Powerful element in the overall donor communication and relationship building process • It is interactive – dialogue rather than one way – data gathering • Find out why your donors are still supporting you or leaving…and use this data to make improvements and changes National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 26 March 2009

Short Term Effects • Effectively raises funds • Gives a ‘voice’ to organisation • Gives a ‘voice’ to supporters/donors • Gives feedback - positive & negative National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 26 March 2009

Long Term Effects • Works with face to face, new media and telephone recruited donors especially well • No difference between landline and mobiles • More effective communication • More sympathetic, strategic & effective fundraising • Closer partnership between donors and the charity • Telephone communication becomes part of the culture of charity Helps develop loyal donors National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 26 March 2009

Thank you – Member get Member • Call just to thank donor and make sure they are happy with you • Ask them to recommend the charity to friends, family, colleagues • Normally 40% give names and telephone numbers of 3-4 people and 40% of those called convert to monthly donors! National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 65 26 March 2009

Dedicate a fundraising telephone line for ALL enquiries • In Spain we are the inbound call centre for all major charity and UN agency enquiries. • Staff trained to convert general enquiries into monthly donors • Excellent and finding out donor motivations and de-motivations for giving • Very cost effective/high ROI National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 66 26 March 2009

Recovering lapsed monthly donors…act now! • Acknowledge the cancellation quickly, in writing, and thank the donor for their support in the past • Offer alternatives to cancellation, such as giving at a lower level or taking a payment holiday • Make sure donors can reactivate easily and securely through your website • Attempt reactivation sooner rather than later… and do it by telephone. • Find out why they cancelled…it is not always on purpose National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 67 26 March 2009

Recovering lapsed monthly donors…act now! • Find out why they cancelled…it is not always on purpose • Try reactivating within six months and don’t leave it for 12 months or more • Regularly test sample reactivations: for instance, try telephoning a sample of 100 donors who cancelled within six months to test for reactivations • Set aside a reactivation budget for each newly-acquired donor • Shift emphasis from acquiring new donors to looking after and stewarding your existing donors to reduce attrition. The process of reactivating a cancelled donor starts from the very moment they cancel. National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 68 26 March 2009

Turn the recession into an opportunity “Look at the downturn as an opportunity to challenge your conventional thinking. Take a fresh look at your organisation, how you attract and retain donors and most importantly, stay positive.” BOND Voluntary Income Group Meeting 5 December 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 69 26 March 2009

“The only thing we have to fear is fear itself” Franklin D. Roosevelt, Inaugural Address, March 4, 1933, National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 70 26 March 2009

Let’s raise some money National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 71 26 March 2009

¡¡Gracias!! National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 72 26 March 2009

Calle Caleruega 67 Piso 2 Madrid 28033 Spain Tel: +34 91 829 0772 Mob: +34 647 450 194 Fax: +34 91 302 0214 Email: daryl@darylupsall.com Web: www.darylupsall.com contact: info@darylupsall.com National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 73 26 March 2009

Recession Fundraising Resources • “Ten Steps to Managing Fundraising in a Recession” A white Paper by Sean Triner, Pareto Fundraising October 2008 • “Fundraising in a Cold Climate”, An Analysis by 2into3, Dennis O' Connor & Deirdre Hatch, 2into3 , 6th October 2008 • “Recession: Watching is not an option”, A Thought Piece by Tony Elischer, Think Consulting Solutions, October 2008 • “Voices from the South. The impact o the Financial Crisis on Developing Countries” Institute of Development Studies, November 2008 • Managing in a Downturn: November 2008 survey results, analysis and key messages, PWC, Charity Finance Directors’ Group, Institute of Fundraising • John Studzinski quoted in “Long term donors are key to surviving economic crisis, charities warned” Hannah Jordan, Third Sector Online, 9th October 2008 • “Viewpoint: What does the credit crunch mean for fundraising?” Simon James, Third Sector Online, 14th May 2008, http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/news/Article/808648/viewpoint-does-credit- crunch-mean-fundraising/ • “Five Tactics to Rev Up Fundraising in a Down Economy” by Randy McCabe, 16th September 2008, www.fundraisingsuccessmag.com • “Five tips for nonprofits in an economic downturn” by Cathy Lanyard, 30th September 2008, www.fundraisingsuccessmag.com • Don’t let a Dark Economy Leave Fundraising in the Shadows, by Eileen Heisman, 11th November 2008, www.fundraisingsuccessmag.com • Fundraising Recession Watch Blog, http://recessionwatch.blogspot.com/ Ongoing 2008 • http://network.3s4.org.uk/forums/159/topics/97 The impact of an economic slowdown on VCS – seminar summary, NCVO online seminar, October 2008 National Conference for Fundraising in Ireland 74 26 March 2009

Donor Care In Challenging Times Daryl Upsall

by Fundraising Ireland on Mar 30, 2009

Accessibility

Categories

Tags

Upload Details

Usage Rights

1 Embed 2

Statistics

Donor Care In Challenging Times Daryl Upsall — Presentation Transcript