The Entrepreneurs Radio Show Episode 105

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW
Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business
Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 1 of 23

Episodes 105: John Michael Morgan
In this episode, Travis talks to successful entrepreneur and gifted speaker and mentor John
Michael Morgan. John has helped entrepreneurs achieve business success through self-
improvement and branding. Aside from that, he is also a key note speaker and author, and
certainly has a lot of valuable insights that he shares in the episode today.
Travis and John covered various topics ranging from the value of branding to attitudes and the
mindset that should govern an entrepreneur and their business. He describes the real meaning
of branding and how important it is in growing and establishing your business. He also points
out the misconception of using price as a strategy to standout and the importance of customer
experience as a priority in your business. John also gives his tips on how to build a brand that
would attract value buyers who should be the real target of every business. These and so much
more are what you can expect to learn from this episode of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show.
Building A Brand For Your Biz
TRAVIS: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins welcome to episode number 105 of the Entrepreneur's
Radio Show, a production of rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, where each and every week I
connect you with rock star entrepreneurs that explain their journey to success and what's been
the key principles to finding their high level of success as an entrepreneur. So that you can see
that successful entrepreneurship is really just a series of everyday people that stayed committed
to taking constant action day after day, even if it's imperfect action. Also, at the risk of being
redundant, I have a side objective with the show. I want this to become part of the circle of 5 for
you which basically means that the 5 people you spend the majority of your time around will
become the reflection of your income and your success, even your mentality and beliefs, or your
approach in a lot of things. So, I want you to just pretend that in each and every episode that it's
me, you, and our guest, and we're just sitting in a table having a candid conversation in our own
private mastermind. Now, I said at the risk of being redundant because I cover some of these
things over, and over, and over, but they're important enough to be said multiple times because
I want to drive that level of understanding and mentality into your brain because it's a key part of
helping you find what your true level of success in life and in business. So, that's the reason
why I'm redundant on some of these things.
Now, today I'm going to introduce you to John Michael Morgan. John's specialty is achievement,
leadership, and marketing. Although before we get started I'm going to take another brief minute
as I have in the last several episodes and recognize Cody Gliss for writing us a review and
giving us a 5-star rating over on iTunes. Thanks Cody Gliss for taking the time to write a review,
that means a lot to me. Thank you for the kind words that you wrote and the feedback. I really

appreciate it. Just in case you don't know, writing a review helps us reach more people just like
yourself. Now the reason for that is iTunes and Stitcher believe that if you're writing comments,
then the show must be valuable. And therefore they'll serve it to more of their audience. So, if
you have time and you do find value in the show, I'd really appreciate it, it'd mean a lot to me if
you'd go in and leave us a review and tell us how we're doing. And then of course, I'll recognize
you on air and say thank you. One last thing, before we get started there's 3 ways you can take
these interviews with you on the go, through iTunes, Android, or Stitcher. Just go to
rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, click on the iTunes, Android, or Stitcher link right there on the
menu bar and it will take you directly to the podcast. You won't have to search for it or anything.
Or you can subscribe and hopefully leave us a review. So, now that we've got all that stuff out of
the way let's go ahead and get down to business. Without further ado, welcome to the show
John.
JOHN: Thank you so much for having me.
TRAVIS: Man, I'm super excited to have you here. So listen, I know you're busy. I'm not sure if
you're familiar with the background of the show, so kind of the way we normally like to do things.
I like to get kind of the back story of how you got started and what the transition was to make
you successful. Because I feel like it's instructive for everybody else that's kind of on that
journey. So do you mind sharing that with us?
JOHN: No, that'd be my pleasure. My story, I feel like it's a little bit different than most people
mainly because I didn't have the necessarily rags to riches story that a lot of people have.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: Not meaning that I haven't had my share of struggles in those things, I certainly have.
But I wasn't someone who stood out and said "I'm going to be an entrepreneur, watch this" kind
of the thing. So, my start was when I was a teenager I ended up suffering through massive
depression, suicide attempts, suicidal thoughts, really, really dark places. And as a result of that
I was trying to look for answers. And so I started reading books, which was at that time kind of a
miracle because I wasn't a great student. So, the thought of all of a sudden me reading and
learning and applying something certainly didn't exist in my school life. But I started things from
Napoleon Hill, and Tony Robbins, and that then led to just reading stuff about marketing, and I
was just fascinated with why people do stuff and how they respond to stuff. And so, I never
thought about is well that's going to help me out in a career one day. I just thought of it as, "This
will help me in this time of my life.
TRAVIS: Right.

JOHN: So, fast forward a little bit to college. My very first day of college, the very first teacher I
had basically said, "Hey guys, this isn't high school. You can walk out right now, we don't care."
And honestly Travis I can't tell you what he said next because I was gone.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: I was like, "Alright, sweet. That's my free pass out of college." So my college career
lasted all of 4 minutes. And I just had this thing about rather be doing it than just sitting there
learning it. And so that was my start. So I did a lot of different, little entrepreneurial things here
and there, and nothing that I took serious in terms of one day I'm going to start a business or
those kind of things, until it came time for my wife and I to get married and I needed the "real
career" kind of a thing. And so, I became a real estate agent thinking that you wear a suit and
tie and that would make my family think I've got a career. But what happened is when you're 20
something, you're a real estate agent, and you look like you're 15, no one wants to hire you and
no one knew I existed. And my network were high school dropouts and work in fast food
restaurants, they weren't buying houses.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: So I didn't know what the crap to do. And then it hit me one day and my wife was like,
"You've read all of these marketing or branding books, and all of these books about success. Is
there something in there that would help?" And I was like, "Oh yeah." And so, very quickly then I
went from struggling to top real estate team in my area. And then very quickly learned that the
marketing and building the business and all that kind of stuff was what I loved most. And so, I
built a full team around me, and I was only doing the marketing. And I wasn't working with any
of the customers myself. And so, for the last 2 years of that business it was completely on
autopilot. Now, during that time I then started to do consulting for huge brands and small
businesses and things like that, helping them with their marketing, and their systems, and their
branding, and all of that stuff. And basically one day I just realized that everytime I was doing
something there I loved it, and I was fired up about it. And then every time I had to do something
in real estate it gave me a headache and I was miserable. So, I sold the real estate business
and then focused on this stuff full-time and I've been doing it now 13 years.
TRAVIS: That's a cool story, and I want to dissect that a little bit because I'm really curious.
What was the turning point that took you from struggling to a top Realtor? What was that? Was
it an epiphany, the clouds opened up and you had an "aha" moment. Or was it a series of steps
that led you to this. And if so what were they?
JOHN: Yeah, there was an aha moment and that was when I realized that it was all my fault.
And so, the good the news about being an entrepreneur was that if you're successful, look at

me, look what I did. The bad news is when you're not, it's like crap, it's still on me, right? We
can't have it both ways.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: And so when I realized what had happened is a lot of the depression stuff I had suffered
years before, I realized I had a lot of scars in terms of my self-worth. And those kind of things.
And so what happened is subconsciously I was sabotaging my success. And so I knew how to
do it, I knew how to market, I knew how to do sales, all of that kind of stuff. Whether I'm selling
on the phone, in person, whatever. I knew I could do it but why wasn't I? And it was simply
because there was times I felt like I didn't deserve success, there was times I let fears slow me
down and all that kind of stuff. So the aha moment for me was when I realized, you know what, I
think this is actually me. I think I'm the one screwing this up, not some outside circumstance. I
then started to look a little more internal. And I can remember the day Travis when I told my
wife, I said, "From this day forward I'm going to spend more time working on myself than
working on the business." And that changed everything. Not overnight of course but it changed
everything because then I realized that if I want to make 7 figures a year, I need to have 7
figures a year habits, right? I need to have those kind of thoughts. That will lead to the
necessary actions and all of those kind of things. And so, I just realized that “wait a minute”, I
can't make 6 figures with 5-figure habits. I can't make 7 with 6 figure habits. All that-- So it just
became, okay, I need to work on myself, I need to fix this mindset, I need to fix my attitude, I
need to address the fears and keep moving despite of them, just all those kind of things. It was
that moment, that day of just realizing what if it's me, and if it is me what if I fix me, then what
happens? And so, it 's just sort of that work on your inner world and your outer world kind of
takes care of itself. And I follow that to this day.
TRAVIS: I love that. Now, how old were you when this epiphany happened?
JOHN: I was 25 I believe, 25-26.
TRAVIS: That's impressive because so many people, well, very few people are able to be
honest with themselves, right? And what you're describing to me is a moment of not only clarity
but absolute honesty with yourself. When you look in the mirror and you're seeing the clear
reflection of what is rather than what you wanted to be. And so, that's a rare thing. If coming
from a place of insecurity-- well assuming that your depression had elements of insecurity in it
also, am I correct?
JOHN: Oh yeah, absolutely.

TRAVIS: And so, that's such a far reach from that. That really surprises me. How do you think
you were able to pivot that and get that level of clarity for yourself? Do you have any idea?
JOHN: I've never specifically thought about it in those terms. But if there's one thing that I have
always known. Despite the struggles, despite anything-- challenges that have sort of come my
way. The thought of quitting has never been in my mind.
TRAVIS: Okay.
JOHN: Even though I've doubted myself, there's never been doubt that eventually I'd figure it
out.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: So for me it was always when and not if, right? And so, that always sort of gave me that
hope. So I think it was that clarity of just willing to look at myself because I was kind of used to
it, right? Because for years I spent around looking in the mirror going, "What is wrong with me?
Why can't I just wake up and be normal?"
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: And so, to identify, "Hey, I'm the problem", that was kind of a natural thought process for
me anyways. So, it wasn't a depressing thing, it was more of, "Okay, I'm used to this. So now
how do I fix this problem kind of a thing." So I think because of that I've never been one to
blame others. I've never been to say, "It's winter, so sales are down. Or the economy is doing--
I've never been one who buys into that, it's always been, something I'm doing just isn't clicking.
What is it, how do I fix that? And I guess that has come, and I don't even know if this answering
your question. But I guess it's come from I've been in that habit of looking internally to figure out
what's wrong. So that led me to find some answers.
TRAVIS: Yeah. Maybe it's not as far reaching as I was thinking that it is. Maybe that self-
criticism is a part of-- maybe close related to that. I'm just impressed with the clarity at 25 to do
that because I think a lot of people have managed to go through life, and I've done it with
myself. I'm no better than anybody else. I've fooled myself into thinking that my wife is shrinking
my pants and stuff like that. 15-year old pants, my wife's shrinking my pants. No, you're gaining
weight. I'm just not seeing it in the mirror, right? So 25, that's really impressive. And then, what
was the shift in the marketing and the branding aspect of things that allowed you to go to top
Realtor? Because that's really such at times trading your time for money type thing. So what
was the shift there?

JOHN: Yeah. So there's a few things. I looked around and saw what the other agents in my
market were doing, and they were all doing the same thing. And none of that appealed to me.
When I looked at their advertising, when I looked at their sales process, and how they talk to
people, none of that really fit my personality. And I knew that if I conformed and tried to put
myself in that box I would be miserable. And so then, not to tie everything back to the
depression but I didn't want to take that risk, right? All of a sudden waking up and being
completely miserable again, right?
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: And so, I thought, okay, there's got to be a different way to do it. So I looked
immediately at how do I differentiate myself from everyone else in the marketplace? And so I did
that through unique selling propositions and those kind of things. But then I also looked at other
industries. And it hit me one day that when you go to the doctor's office the doctor is not the one
answering the phone and checking you in, and sending faxes, and all these kind of stuff. And I
thought, "Why do I have to be the one doing that?"
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: What's the most dialled productive thing I can be doing? Well, it's generating leads and
converting leads. And I thought, what would happen if I only focused on that? Because really
quickly by the way in real estate, you realize, nothing you say is going to sell the house. You're
not living there. They're either going to like it or they not. So me being the one to actually unlock
the door and let them in doesn't actually affect anything. And I thought if I can't control the
outcome of that, why am I doing that? That could be any other agent out there. So then I saw
the opportunity that most agents are desperate, and starving, and don't know how to generate
leads, I did. So then all of a sudden it was like, "I'll generate the leads, I'll convert them. You
become part of my team, I will hand you business, you go spend all weekend showing them
homes, I'm going to hang-out with my wife on the weekends. And then when you sell it, boom,
we split the commission.
TRAVIS: Ah...
JOHN: Yeah, and so it just became this thing of like, I'm now helping them because their
problem is they don't have leads, my problem is I have too many. But they're helping me
because my problem is I don't want to go out and work with everybody.
TRAVIS: Right.

JOHN: It was this win-win. And some of that also by the way did come from Michael Gerber's
book the E-Myth had highly influenced me in terms of systems, and thinking with the end in
mind and all that. And again, I didn't get into real estate because I loved it. I got into it for all the
wrong reasons. And so, running out at 7 pm on a Friday night to show someone a house was
not my idea of fun and what I wanted to be doing with my life.
TRAVIS: And so, the wonderful thing about that is it allowed you to scale also. How quickly
were you able to scale that?
JOHN: Oh, very, very quickly. Because then it became where I realize, you know what, good
marketing works. Not just in one place but in any place, right? And so I realized I can market in
other areas and just find the agents there to service those people, because again, all I'm doing
is sending them the leads, right? And teaching them. Because by the way, I then got to where I
realized I didn't like making the phone calls to convert people. So the leads that we would get in,
I then taught the agents how to do it.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: How to convert and those things. I was better at just being that leader than continuing to
go out and being the guy trying to sell it all. Because like you're saying, then it didn't scale. Now,
all of a sudden we could sell so many homes because we were all over the place. We didn't
have to be one at a time and all that. And my time then it truly was wide open. And I spend a lot
days doing nothing but watching leads come in and watching Oprah on TV.
TRAVIS: I love it. And so, ultimately you ended up selling that business?
JOHN: I did, yeah. 2008 I sold that business. Right before the real estate market got horrible.
Which looks brilliant by the way, but that was a complete accident.
TRAVIS: Yes, serendipity.
JOHN: Yeah. My timing was purely chance.
TRAVIS: Well, I know one of the things that you're really well-known for is branding, right? And
so, I think branding is something that most people can't get their arms around. I know you know
for branding and marketing. But branding, most people can't get their arms around because
they really don't understand what it is. Can you take me down the path and explain what you
feel like branding really is?

JOHN: Sure. I think it boils down to just simply it's your reputation. That's it. So we all have a
brand. Everyone we've ever met has formed an opinion of us, good or bad. And it's help people
all the time. Supposing it’s like, "Hey, I'm going to start a brand." Guess what, you've already got
one and it's either working for your or against you, but it's always working, it's always there. And
so that's the thing to me. A brand is not the logo, it's not your product, it's not your color scheme,
or your website, or your mission statement, or any of that stuff. And I'm not saying that those
things aren't important, but I'm saying those aren't your brand.
TRAVIS: Are they a piece of it or not?
JOHN: Yeah. In the sense of I believe everything we do is branding, right? Let me give you a
quick example. My wife and I go to a restaurant one night, and when we pull-up in the parking
lot. The chef is on his break. He's sitting outside in front of the dumpster, shirtless, smoking.
TRAVIS: Oh no.
JOHN: Yeah, which doesn't make us excited about going to eat there, right? Now, if you asked
him he would say, "It's no big deal I'm on my break, I can do what I want." If you ask the
manager he's going to say, "It's no big deal, he's on his break. We can't control them." They're
both wrong because it's still branding. It's still changing your opinion of them. And so, your logo
and the design, all that kind of stuff. Your messaging and your image, that stuff does matter,
because your brand is these thousand little things all adding up together. So like I said, it's
important but that's not what your brand is, right? It's more, again, what people think about you,
and what your reputation is, and what level of trust do they actually have with you and your
company. When we go to a grocery store and we buy Coke versus some generic cola, it's
because we just have trust with the name Coke. We just kind of feel like what we know what
we're going to get with it, right? And so, it's not the logo, it's not the colors. Those things can
breed familiarity and that's cool. But ultimately when it comes down to what a brand is it's simply
your reputation.
TRAVIS: Right, I totally agree. And I feel like the sweet spot-- I've come to realize that there's
really-- any market breaks into 3 segments. And so, there are price buyers where people are
forced to buy something and they're on an extremely limited budget and can't-- they just need to
buy the absolute cheapest, right? And then I've noticed that there is a value buyer and they're
much more interested in removing the potential of risk. So they'll pay top dollar for whatever it is.
And I'm not talking about a fancy brand as much as say it's a service-based business, whether
it's a doctor, or a home improvement company, or really whatever it is. They want to know if
something goes wrong that there's accountability there, exactly what you're talking about. And
then there's the group in-between. And those people are on the fence. And it's made up of price

buyers and value buyers. And that make-up really depends on the part of the town or regionally
where you offer your services at. And I think when you have a really good brand, you magnetize
or you attract value buyers rather than price buyers, do you agree with that?
JOHN: I agree with that 1,000%. If you look at people who go to buy a Coach purse, they're not
concerned about, "Oh, this is too expensive." They want to carry the coach purse. The people
who go into target and look at certain purses, they may grab one and think, "I can't believe it's
priced that, it's too high, right." And so, it's like which one do you want to be. And I wish I'd come
up with a cooler example than purses, but for some reason that was the first thing that entered
my mind. But that to me is exactly what you're saying. There are those people who will pay
more for the peace of mind, and the trust, and the reputation, and those kind of things. But they
need that satisfaction, they need that peace of mind. And so, I wish more businesses would
actually sometimes think, "Wow, I can serve those people just as well and go for that."
TRAVIS: And those are the most ideal clients for several reasons. Gary Halbert, the famous
copywriter called them PWM's, Players with Money. And it means self-employed or business
owners typically are players. Players not in a negative sense, but people that care about quality.
Most business owners are quality oriented. And so, when they go out and buy things they want
quality themselves, right? And they're the most ideal because they're responsible, they're
agreeable. Whereas price buyers, a lot of times can have a wide range of objectives. They're
shaking to get it free ultimately. There's a whole litany of things that come with serving the price
buyer. And I don't want to knock anybody in that range because I come from a very humble
background. There was a time when we can buy anything but on price, right? But it's just not the
ideal market for everybody to target in most cases, right?
JOHN: Yeah. That's exactly right because it's the thing if you win them on price you'll lose them
on price.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: If price is the only reason you're different, then your business model is screwed.
Because there's always going to be somebody willing to do it cheaper and go out of business
quicker than you. If you sell something for $10, someone's going to come along and sell it for 7.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: And then you're going to feel like you got to do 5, and then they're going to do-- It's a
raise to the bottom. And that's something I'd never want to be a part of. And the sad part Travis
is there's so many people out there who have a phenomenal product and a great service.
Whatever it is that they're providing. But they don't have the confidence to ask for the right price.

And so they end up marketing to the people who have to shop that way, and the problem then is
exactly what we're talking about. Those aren't loyal customers, because they can't afford to be
loyal. Again, not knocking them and hopefully they don't all stay there. But the reality is if you're
running a business, you need to make sure that it's a business that can last not just this year but
10 years from now. That has to be the goal, that has to be the mentality that you have. And
that's the thing-- again, price can't be the reason you're different. I cringe whenever someone
says, "We're great. We do this and that, and we're the cheapest." Don't brag about that.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: That's not always a good thing. If you and I needed to have brain surgery, am I going to
say, "Hey Travis, man, I know you got that surgery coming up. I found the cheapest dude ever."
Are you even going to want his name and number?
TRAVIS: Yeah.
JOHN: Of course not, right? And so, I think what you're alluding to a moment ago is so true.
People want quality and that sort of cliché saying of we get what we pay for. It's cliché because
it's pretty much true. So we have to show people the value we have. And I stress this to people
all the time. If customers are bulking at your price, it's not because the price is too high, it's
because they don't see the value. And that's the thing I try to stress to people, price is only an
issue in the absence of value. If I came over to your house and I try to sell you a $50,000
Ferrari. $50,000 is a lot of money, but not for a Ferrari, right?
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: So, the positioning then becomes different. So that's thing is don't sit there and think, "Is
my price too high or is my price too low?" Ask yourself, is my value high enough? If you want to
sell something for $100, great, make sure the value exceeds that. If you want to sell something
for $10,000, wonderful, just make sure the value is there, that's it.
TRAVIS: Yeah. So do you focus on engineering a client experience to deliver that higher level
of value typically, or do you typically just focus on the branding and marketing side of things?
JOHN: Certainly, I think that the experience sometimes is the best part of the brand, right?
When we look at Disney for example, one of the greatest brands in the world. Look at how
experience-focused they are on everything, right? And a lot of businesses are. Why is Amazon
fun to buy? Because it comes so quick. The experience is kind of cool. Oh, one click and I
bought it, and it's going to be here tomorrow. That was fun, that was great. Then waiting 2
weeks or whatever. We used to have to wait for things. So, I think that, that experience

becomes important. And something I really would want to point out Travis is that a lot of times
as business owners, we forget that our customer experience isn't exciting, right? We sometimes
need to actually step back and imagine we're in our customer's shoes, and think wait a minute,
is this fun, do we want to do business with ourselves, or is this boring? Because that's the thing.
Customer service, and customer experience and all of that. No matter what industry you were in
is basically below average as a standard. So providing just a little more wows people. Now, it's
kind of sad that we live in that world, but that's where the huge opportunity is as well. After
someone buys from you, call them the next day and say, "Hey, is it working out for you?" You'd
be amazed at how much that will stun people.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: Wait, you're still thinking about me? Anyways, I could go on a whole rant about all this
and throw out 100 examples, but I just think that, that experience is so overlooked, and that's
where the biggest opportunity is to create those customers for life.
TRAVIS: Right. I completely agree. Now before we go to the-- because there's a lot of things
that we can talk about here. How would you advise a person? We could pick any type of
business. How would you advise them to build a brand that exudes confidence and all of the
things that attract those value buyers that we we're talking about, the most ideal ones. How do
you go about crafting that?
JOHN: Well, I think there's a few things. First of all, I would make a list of everything that your
competition does not do and then you do that. Do the things they're not willing to do. And the
2nd thing, and this is possibly the most important is you have to believe in it. Because if you're
not fired about what you do and you don't believe in it, don't expect anyone else to be fired up
about it either. If you don't believe in what you're selling, the rest of the world isn't either. Same
thing with your brain, if you don't believe in it no one else is going to believe in it. So I think that's
the thing is it also comes down. You kind of have to have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder,
you don't say this publicly but you kind of have to have this attitude of you're crazy if you don't
buy from me. That's the mindset you actually have to develop. You want that thing of, "Wow,
someone says no to this. It's truly their loss." And because what happens when you have that
sort of mindset is not that you're like getting angry with people, it's that your marketing in a
confident way. You believe in what you're doing, you're willing to remove the risks for people
because you believe in it. You're willing to do those things. My USP that I had in real estate was
your home sold in 30 days or I will sell it for free. And people were like, "Why in the world are
you doing that?" Because I believe in what I can do. I don't want to sell it for free. If I didn't know
that I could sell it in less than 30 days I wouldn't offer to do that, right? But it showed confidence
in my service because I was willing to put it on the line, right? And so, that becomes-- again, the

thing is just sitting there and not necessarily thinking what's our mission statement and what
kind of positioning are we going to have on these things. It's really thinking, "Okay, we're solving
a problem for people. What is that problem and how can we help them?" And that becomes your
market, is figuring out those kind of things. How can we position ourselves as a resource and
not just a service provider. Because service providers are just people who are trying to sell
people something, a resource is someone who's actually helping. And there's a big difference,
and the companies who are a resource are winning, and the companies who are still just buy
my stuff, buy my stuff, they're losing.
TRAVIS: Right. That's why I coach people to use the word client rather than customer because
sometimes the best thing for your client is not selling them or giving them what you have.
Sometimes it's sending them elsewhere. And so, I take that role of shepherding them in the right
direction regardless of whether it's monetarily beneficial to me, right?
JOHN: Absolutely. And that's a sign of hey, if we're about caring for people, let's show them that
we're willing to care for people by being able to say I don't know that we're right. That's the deal.
One of my best customers Travis has been with me for years, and we laugh about this all the
time. When he reached out to hire me I told him no. And he was like, "What do you mean no?"
And I was like, "You're not ready." And he was like, "I've been doing this 20 years, no one's ever
told me no. What are you talking about?" I was like, "You're not ready." And so, he comes back
a year later, had things ready, and then it made sense. And so he became a client and he has
been since. But he was like, "It drove me nuts that you said no. I knew then I had to work with
you." And I think it's because of what I showed that, "Oh, you've got a Pulse and a credit card?
Okay, I'll work with you." No, we can't do business do business like that anymore. We need to
be about that more. And I like what you're saying about the difference between just verbally
someone being a customer versus being a client and those things. And I just feel like life is too
short to do business with people we don't like. And so, let's help people so they're not looking at
us in a negative way and instead they're thanking us. We can make money and we can help
people, and we can all live the good life. It doesn't have to be so combative all the time.
TRAVIS: Right. And when a client is not ready, or not a good fit, or whatever the case may be,
it's going to cause more collateral damage anyway. Both of you want or both of you are going to
end up not being completely satisfied, the person is going to be delayed from really what they
need to be doing. There's just all kinds of things that collateral damage that comes from that
when just being a good shepherd of treating them as if they were a family member. My first
company that I built was a home improvement company. And one of the things that we did very
similar to what your USP is we sold home improvements, no money down, nothing, until the job
is complete and you're satisfied. And I just annihilated my competition because nobody else
could afford to hang with me, right?

JOHN: Right.
TRAVIS: And so, we just obliterated our competition. So everybody knew that our focus was to
get the job done and do it right, even if we made some mistakes along the way we stuck in there
until it was right and then you paid us, right? And then sometimes that meant not taking a job.
There's so many people that they're so busy trying to say yes to everything, and they're trying to
be everything to everyone that they're not really in their sweet spot being the best they should
be to their most ideal client. There's an ideal target client that I serve in several of my
businesses and we know who those are. And either this-- our potential client fits into that fairly
close or they don't. And if they don't we just tell them.
JOHN: Absolutely. And again, it's having that confidence to do that. And it show so much--
again, just even from the outside people looking in that way, they then see what you really are
all about and you have this commitment to your process, and that's a strong thing.
TRAVIS: Yeah, that throws people. So the first thing you said is do the thing that you are-- do
what your competition is not doing. So, excel at what your competition isn't doing. And then
you've got to believe in what you're doing vehemently, aggressively, assertively. What comes
next for you?
JOHN: I think what comes next is then showing people that why you are different is a benefit.
Too many people try to be different, or controversial, or whatever just for the sake of saying
we're different, right? But that difference has to be of value to who you're selling to. If it's not a
value to your audience and your client base then what's the point. And so, that has to be the
thing. And so a lot of times we sometimes claim that something's different but we don't tell
people why that's a good thing. I remember one time a pizza place in my town, when the waiter
came up they were like, "By the way, we make all of our crust with such and such kind of bread
and then walked off." And I was like, "I don't know why that's a big deal."
TRAVIS: Right, thanks for that.
JOHN: I'm not an expert of bread, so please tell me why we should care, right? So it's those
kind of things where if what you're doing that is different and what you're positioning yourself on,
it has to still be a benefit. You and I know-- especially like you mentioned Gary Halbert and
some of these great legends of marketing and copywriting, all they would hammer in you is
benefits, benefits, benefits, right? Too many people are selling the features, you got to sell the
benefits. What I think also happens today is what you and I are talking about now where we're
trying to be different and we're trying to show that our business and our brand is different, but
we forget that there has to be a reason why. Why do you exist in the marketplace? Justify the
oxygen that you're taking up. You can't just say, "Oh this person is selling green widgets, and

he's driving a nice car. We are now in business and we are selling blue widgets." That can't
happen anymore. Why are yours better, why is blue better than green, or whatever. You've got
to then take that next step and actually explain to people, this is why you should care. Never
assume that people get it. Never ever assume that. I remember telling my mom back when the
iPhone you can do the whole 4-digit lock screen on it, right? I remember showing her, "Look, in
this gray phone I can lock my phone like this and nobody can get it." Even me saying, "So no
one could use my phone but me." My mom then says, "Why in the world would you need that?"
So it's like, I had to explain it to her, a step further. So here I am showing a feature and she's
just like, "Yeah, whatever." You got to go a step further on these things and actually explain,
"Here's why you should care."
TRAVIS: Yeah, it really requires a lot of thinking, and planning, and diagram. It's not as easy as
we're making it sound. You really got to plot this stuff out because there is an assumption that I
think people that have lived, breathed, and slept their business, their product, their service, that
everyone has that depth of knowledge and is just not there. So you've got to make it brain-dead
simple, not that people are stupid but you've got to assume that the message can be conveyed
to at least in 8th grade level, right?
JOHN: Absolutely. And it's not talking down to people or anything like that. It's just that
everyone's used to living in their world, right? And they're used to go in their pace. So if you're
not asking them to come into your world, and buy your products, and your services and those
kind of things, you need to grab them by the hand and walk them through that. If you don't
you're losing sales. And it's just that thing. I often tell people if you want to know the magic,
multi-million dollar question to how do you market your business, ask yourself this question.
How big of an expert is my customer? What level are they on, right? Let's go back to real estate
as an example. A first time home buyer knows far less than someone who's owned 7 homes in
their life, right? So now, how I market to them and how much I hold their hand is completely
different, right? Because someone who's buying their 8th house, or maybe they're a real estate
investor and they buy a house every month, I just need to stay out of their way because they
probably know more than I do. Someone who's a first time home buyer, I've got to explain
everything and assume nothing.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: And so, asking that question allows us to base everything, what's our content? What are
we putting out there in social media, what are we putting out there in our email marketing, what
are we blogging about, what's our… All that kind of stuff is fuelled by asking yourself that
question and figuring that out.

TRAVIS: Do you do surveys to get that information?
JOHN: I'm sorry, what?
TRAVIS: Sorry about that, I didn't mean to jump into your flow there. Do you do surveys to find
out those questions? So you may feel like you already know several of the questions that
they're asking, but you want to go deeper and make sure that you're getting a complete 360
degree view of the potential questions that someone. Maybe a new home buyer would want to
ask. Do you accomplish that through surveys? How do you go about getting that data?
JOHN: That's a phenomenal question. I think you could on surveys, but I would caution
everyone on relying only on that, simply because a lot of times people don't want to feel stupid
when they're filling out a survey even if it's anonymous. And so, they may lie and act like they
know something when they really don't. So you can't always gauge survey results accurately.
Also, sometimes what people say they would do is not what they would actually do. So there's
that. I like to do it, just simply taking a look at what clients you've got and figuring out what are
commonalities and where are they at these different processes, and what kind of questions do
they ask. So, the same way a business would go about putting together what's our most
frequently asked questions. That tells you what level a lot of these people are starting on. A first
time home buyer in real estate would never call me up and say, "How do I buy down my interest
rate?"
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: Right. And thank God because I don't think I could've answered that. Instead they're
saying, "Do you think there's any way we could get a pool?" That kind of stuff, right? Can we get
our yard fenced in, those kind of problems. So it comes back to-- a first-time owner doesn't even
know how the Realtor gets paid. So you got to explain that. Hey, this is how this works, and all
of those things. So again, starting with what kind of clients you've got and looking for what are
the questions they're asking me? Where were they in their life when they came into my service
or about the product, or whatever it may be, because that will help you. And I think a lot of times
we're afraid to talk to the client, or afraid of asking them these kind of question of do you know
this, do you know that, are you buying this for a friend? Again, figuring out how they intend to
use whatever it is that you're selling. We need to ask those questions and figure out. I
remember one time going in to buy a new radio system for my car. I was a teenager so I needed
the loud speakers. And I remember going into Best Buy and I knew nothing about any of them,
right? And the dude immediately starts talking about subwoofers and throws out all these
numbers, and all these kind of stuff. And I did not buy because I had no clue what he was
talking about. I just want it loud.

TRAVIS: Yeah.
JOHN: That was it, right? And so that's the thing is you just got to know what level are they at.
TRAVIS: Right. I spoke with the same salesman, I know who you're talking about. You're like,
"Wow, is there a place for me to sit down, I'm feeling overwhelmed with the data you just gave
me. I just want to crank my stereo. Tell me where to go."
JOHN: That's right. I can't tell you how many times my sat in the car with the kids and I've come
back to the car, and she's like, "You didn't get anything?" "No. But now I also feel stupid." That's
what my experience, just wanted you to know. So, we've got to avoid those things.
TRAVIS: Yeah. So how about going back with clients that you have had good rapport with and
just saying would you mind if I asked you some questions? And just be as candid as possible,
what were your 3 big concerns, or would you suggest something like that?
JOHN: Absolutely I would. And get that information however you can to do that. Here's another
thing Travis is that you can ask those same questions right up front. And I don't know why
people don't do this. Again, like when I was in real estate, when I would sit down with a client for
the first time and I'm doing my sales presentation and I'm getting them to sign the paperwork to
hire me. In that process I would say, "Hey, what are the two or three most important things to
you during this process?" And that was great for 2 reasons. Number 1, they let me know what
they were afraid of, what their concerns were, the level of information they have like you and I
had come a now. But number 2 it let me know, as long as I do these 3 things okay, I can screw
up a lot of other stuff and they're still going to be happy.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: Someone says. "John, I'm not as concerned about price, and this and that. I just want
the communication to be strong. I want to know what's going on every step of the way." Perfect,
now I know what to do.
TRAVIS: Yeah, you're hitting it on the head. I completely agree with you. It's the key to good
sales, is asking good questions?
JOHN: Oh, absolutely. And not being afraid to ask questions. So many people think, "Well, I
don't want to ask them a lot of questions" and then I don't look like I'm the authority. You've got
it backwards. You are the authority because you knew to ask a lot of questions. I ask a ton of
questions. My very first call with any client I have is nothing but me hammering them with

questions. And at the end of it they're like, "Is that it?" and I'm like, "Yeah, but until next time
when I'll have more." But you can't ask too many.
TRAVIS: Right. Well, you know, I had a lot of clients that have a holy cow moment because I
have 160+ questions that I ask them when I take on a client, when I'm mentoring business
owners. And a lot of the questions they can't answer, but I need to know whether they can
answer them or not, right? And it's not really to make them feel stupid as much as I need to
know their level of clarity on this, on that, and all of them, while it's an intimidating process, love
the fact that I took the time to ask the questions. And now, I don't go into 160 questions with
someone that I just met. I may ask 12 key questions. And if it's a good fit then we segue into the
next step. But the point is so few people take a consultative approach to solving a problem. And
they quickly want to segue to administering the solution when it's so dangerous to administer a
solution when you don't have a clear understanding of what the problem is, or the clear
understanding of the patient, right?
JOHN: That's right.
TRAVIS: Whether it's medical or even a business. And in many cases they're patient because
you need to have an understanding of what is or is not happening. And then because quite often
with marketing and branding, and business metrics and everything, I liken it to this gigantic big
desk that needs to be kept put together that's got 180 parts that need to put together. Have you
ever put the desk together and have 10-15 parts left-over?
JOHN: Just once or 12 times.
TRAVIS: Yeah, I've done the same. And business is the same way. Now, the funny thing is
business is not going to operate like it should if you don't have every piece in place. And a lot of
times, not only do you need to have them in place but they need to be treated a certain way at a
certain time. Now, I know that sounds confusing but all the more reason you should seek
someone to hold your hand and walk you through those pieces so that you don't get lost. And
so that's what's so critical about this. And I think that's why everybody should seek a mentor
that's been successful at whatever they want to be successful at.
JOHN: Yeah, absolutely. Because you may not know the questions that you need to be asking,
and they do. And so, I love that because what you're talking about-- it's safe to assume that
you've probably seen this happen time and time again where like you're saying, they may not
know the answer but the simple fact that you got them thinking about that is a win.
TRAVIS: Right.

JOHN: Because now they're looking for it, right? What's happening is you're asking a question
and it's not about how they answer it, or like you said, even if they have an answer for it. It's that
now their thought process changes. Now how they're looking at things change. So you've
already helped them by just simply asking a question they hadn't thought of.
TRAVIS: Exactly.
JOHN: And that's so underestimated. People sometimes don't realize that. And that's why,
again, we can't be afraid to ask questions in anything in life. We can't be afraid to ask questions
because we're afraid we'll look stupid, we can't be afraid to ask clients questions afraid that it
looks like we don't know the answers or something. The point is we can't dig deep and we can't
help people move forward until we start asking a lot of those questions.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: And I just think that's such a great example because like I said, when you're asking them
something and they say, you know what Travis, I'm not sure. Great, because now well let's look
at it. Now let's think about it. You've never thought about it before, wonderful. Glad someone
brought it up.
TRAVIS: Yeah, you hit it just on the head. And what's key is the pacing because you can ask
these questions-- Now people feel vulnerable when they don't know the answers to things and
they feel embarrassed when they don't know the answers to things to their own business, right?
They're like, "Geez, I'm kind of ashamed that I don't know how to answer that question." So for
me, I'm very careful about my pacing and my nurturing. And so, I'll say, "Now listen, I'm going to
ask you some questions that are going to make you feel uncomfortable. First, I need you to
know that nobody has all the answers and I'm here to support you. So just relax and we're going
to move through this and it's a very slow pace." But what happens is like you said the next day,
they normally say, "I hardly slept at all last night Travis because I come to realize that A, B, C,
D, E, F, G." And that's exactly what you keyed in on is they started thinking about what they
haven't been thinking about for the last 12 years of running a business.
JOHN: Yeah, absolutely. I had a situation last month where I did a coaching call with a group of
people and one of my clients listening on that. I had told everyone to ask themselves this
question. And I can't even now remember what the question was. My client texted me later and
he was like on panic. I'm like, "Why?" and he was like, "Because I don't have an answer for that.
We need to work on that immediately." And I was like, "Okay, that's great." Just that one
question, like what's this big hang-up for him, and then it led to so much growth in terms of
different areas to work on and things like that. Let's talk about it even just the product side
because I know a lot of people listening to this won't just be in the service-based industry but

maybe they're just selling a physical product or something like that. But if you're not asking
people questions, you're also not then getting any information for new products.
TRAVIS: Right.
JOHN: That's another thing. When you're really having that dialogue and that communication
line goes both ways, if you just shut up and listen long enough, they will tell you exactly what
your next product needs to be, and then you know people will buy it. So, again, I just can't
stress it enough because so many people are just embarrassed to even ask the question.
TRAVIS: Excellent point. Great, great stuff. Hey listen, looks like we're about the 50-minute
mark so it's time for us to segue into the lightning round. Do you need to do anything to warm-
up? You want to stand up and jog in place or anything?
JOHN: I actually have been the entire call.
TRAVIS: Oh cool. What an incredible breath control. I haven't been able to notice. I'm
impressed John.
JOHN: It's impressive. I'm not going to lie, it's impressive.
TRAVIS: You're from Nashville, so it's to be expected.
JOHN: That's exactly right.
TRAVIS: Right. Alright. So what book or program made an impact on you related to business
that you'd recommend and why?
JOHN: The first thing that pops in mind would be a book which is The Greatest Salesman in the
World by Og Mandino. That book taught me to have confidence in myself, but it also showed me
the importance of sales and how you can get anything you want in life if you know how to sell.
And so I reread that book every single year by the way. In fact, I have a copy on my desk, I
keep a copy on my bag in case I got to Starbucks, whatever. I always have a copy nearby. And
there's been a lot of great books that have influenced me but that one in particular continues to
change me.
TRAVIS: Did you say The Greatest Salesman in the World?
JOHN: Yes.

TRAVIS: Okay, alright. Excellent. What's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that
you'd recommend to other business owners and why?
JOHN: Yeah. So I'm slow on the technology, I'm not going to lie.
TRAVIS: That's okay.
JOHN: I'm always behind the curb. But one that I am going to point out is certainly not new but
it's Evernote. And the reason I mentioned it is because I use it in my business every single day,
and it's almost like every month I rediscover a better way to use it. And it's one of those tools
that certainly I'm not sure how a lot of people live their life or run their business without
Evernote. I'm a big note taker and I like to get those ideas down and have everything in one
place. So, it's hands down my favorite tool, and has been for a long time.
TRAVIS: I haven't used that and the other day I heard someone talking and it sounds like they
say that it has a screen grab function to it. Does it?
JOHN: Yes it does.
TRAVIS: Okay. So it would replace Jing. I use Jing for all my screen grabs but there's problems
with that.
JOHN: Yeah. I used to use Jing as well and now I use Evernote for that. And another great
thing, I'm still old-fashioned so I like to keep notepads, and I take notes, pen and paper. But
then the great part is I just take a photo of that in Evernote, and Evernote can search my
handwriting. So, if I'm ever searching for something in particular it reads my handwriting and still
finds it. And so it's just great.
TRAVIS: Yeah. Sam I'm going to have to make that transition because I do a lot of handwritten
stuff. Just like during the show I write everything down by hand because I couldn't type without
being distracting. So, even when I go to events and stuff I write everything down. So I do a lot of
handwritten stuff, so I completely agree with you. I'm going to convert just because you
recommended it.
JOHN: I'll tell Evernote to PayPal me.
TRAVIS: Right. What famous quote would best summarize your belief or your attitude in
business?

JOHN: That's a deep question. I'm a sucker for good quotes, but the one that I feel like sums it
all up for me is by Ralph Waldo Emerson. And the quote is, "Shallow men believe in luck or in
circumstance, strong men believe in cause and effect." And it just summarized what you and I
talked about at the very beginning of the good news is I'm in control; the bad news is I'm in
control. But as long as I remember that, no matter what challenges come my way, no matter
what I'm facing, I can get out of it.
TRAVIS: Good stuff. How do people connect with you?
JOHN: Oh, great question. They can go to johnmichaelmorgan.com, that's my blog and all of
that. @johnmorgan on Twitter, and also facebook.com/johnmorgan.
End of Interview
TRAVIS: Excellent. Thank you for that . Remember that you can find all the links to the books
and resources mentioned in the show in the show notes. Just go to
rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com. Before I close the show today I want to read the quote. And
my quote for today comes from Ralph Waldo Emerson. And the quote reads, "What lies behind
us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." This is Travis Lane
Jenkins signing off for now. To your incredible success my friend, take care.

How We Can Help You
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Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time
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We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses,
Opportunities and Threats within your business.
This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common
reasons are.
As the 'Business Owner' it’s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you’re
in the middle of a daily management.
And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial.
This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn’t matter if you are a one-man
army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same.
Travis Lane Jenkins
Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist
Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show
“Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your
Business"

The Entrepreneurs Radio Show Episode 105

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