my first book Queer Culture

1. Photo of Chicago Gay Day, circa early 1970s by A.J. Epstein
History revealed: A.J. Epstein. Photo by Bob McCamant
when you look over these pictures?
Snapshots with queer photographer A.J. Epstein AE: What got me was that it was a political
statement which they [Pride Parades] sure aren’t
no more, It’s all turned into corporate beer
BY OWEN KEEHNEN thrilled by some of the great tales this man has swer. She asked who I’ve shot, and all theses floats. The street drag queens were so strong.
to tell. Epstein has been capturing history for important names came out, in my case they were Tough dames. They were the most political. The
Artist and photojournalist A.J. (Andrew) Ep- decades and in the process has become an inte- just my friends, the crowd I ran with in the old strongest ones are in the book. I wonder what
stein has been taking pictures since the late gral part of the unfolding of gay history, queer days. Ann was the one that planted the notion ever became of them. I guess that’s what I see
1960s. Capturing queer life and events in the culture and queer art himself. that I was shooting a very important part of lost or what I think, what happened to them all?
post-Stonewall era, he worked in Chicago before Windy City Times: Andrew, congratulations queer history. I went home and started reediting WCT: And what do you hope these photos
relocating to Los Angeles but has worked chroni- on your new your book. Tell me how Queer my images, and the box got bigger and bigger. show the younger generations of queers who
cling gay history nationwide. Culture came about? Since I’m still alive and half the people in the weren’t around at the time?
Epstein photographed Chicago’s Gay Pride Pa- A.J. Epstein: I have to give much of the credit book are dead, I felt it was my responsibility to AE: That history didn’t start with Madonna
rade in the early 1970s, the Gold Coast bar, gay to that amazing novelist Ann Bannon, who I met tell their stories. or Lady Gaga. There is an amazing history that
special events, entertainers of all stripes and at the Lavender library in Sacramento when I we have had. I remember this cute guy I hired
various happenings in the Windy City. His pho- was the art director for the News & Review. I years ago named Josh, and he was going to
tography, art and design have appeared in doz- had read her books especially The Beebo Brinker the Pride Parade but didn’t know what Stone-
ens of periodicals from Esquire to Playboy and Chronicles. (My best friend’s girlfriend was in wall was, didn’t know Harvey Milk, nothing. I
from Rolling Stone to Vogue. His work has been a band in the 1980s with singer Michael Cal- made him watch Before Stonewall and Times of
shown at MOMA in NY, MOMA in SF and numerous len.) They asked me to design a logo for their Harvey Milk, who was a friend. The latter film
galleries nationwide. CD called Be Bo Brinker. I didn’t understand got an Oscar for my partner of many years Rich-
Epstein’s newest work, Queer Culture, began the name and Harriet Lyons (one of the original ard Schmiechen. It amazes me Richard could be
as a showing at ONE, The National Gay and Les- editors of Ms. magazine) made me read Ann’s forgotten. Richard made some important films,
bian Archives in L.A. It soon became a book as books. I loved the sexy ’50s campy covers, but a great one about Evelyn Hooker, but try and
well. This diverse and evocative collection of the writing inside was something else, just blew find five queers under 40 that know of her, or
photographs captures the feel and oftentimes me away. When I heard we lived in the same Richard’s films ... or Tom of Finland, Mappletho-
the grit of gay history at its vital stages. In ad- town I wanted to take a picture of her. I’ve al- rpe, Etienne, Cliff Raven, and let us not forget
dition, Epstein has a second collection due this ways loved documenting people that are larger Chicago’s Chuck Renslow. A lot of history has
summer entitled The Blonde Bomber, a photo then life. Ann is certainly in that category, al- Novelist Ann Bannon. Photo by A.J. Epstein passed in front my lens.
chronicle of the rough and wonderful world of though she was surprised that I had read all her WCT: Your photos provide such a great time
women’s roller derby. books. capsule—capturing things like the 1976
Recently, Windy City Times had the opportu- We hit it off, but when she asked what the Once I did figure out just what I had, and mock slave auction in West Hollywood that
nity to chat with Epstein about his art and was shot was for … I really didn’t have a good an- went into my journals and found I had written was raided by LA police, the protests sur-
stories about my friends. I was able to put the rounding the movie Cruising, Chicago’s Pride
images and words together, made a website, and and anti-Anita Bryant rallies and so much
Covers of Epstein’s books
the next day ONE called and offered me a show. I more. Did you always feel like you were cap-
Queer Culture (left) and
put the book together after I almost died from a turing history?
The Blonde Bomber (right).
botched spinal operation. I was house-bound for AE: Yes, always, and much of that came from
over a year, so I printed the images for the show Richard Schmiechen, he really taught me to see
and decided to go the self publishing route. the bigger picture, and always the politics of
Funny story, I worked with Bruce Vilanch and the times. Richard was much more than the love
then it turned out we both moved to L.A. in the of my life ... he was a great teacher. I never
early 1970s, into the same building. I haven’t was an “art” photographer like my buddies Ar-
seen him in 30 years, we travel in very differ- thur Tress or Duane Michaels, I was more into
ent crowds, but one day I had just come from Margaret Bourke-White, Diane Arbus, or Allen
the show and was at the West Hollywood Book Ginsberg who was a friend. Blake Little (In the
Fair. Suddenly Bruce walked past with a very old Company of Men) the photographer called my
woman in hand. I had a copy of the book and images snapshots. I took it the wrong way, un-
reintroduced myself, throwing out names of edi- til I saw the book of Ginsberg’s photos—all the
tors we both worked for at the [Chicago] Tribune snapshots he had laying around his East Village
and finally he remembered me. I showed him apartment, in books, on the floor, in the kitch-
the book, and he couldn’t stop laughing, and he en. I took one look at his book Beat Memories,
showed the woman the 30-year-old photo of him and had to admit that I did do snapshots of his-
waiting for a bus. She started laughing. He then tory. Now I take that as a compliment.
introduced me to his friend Carol Channing, and WCT: You also have so many great photo
said he loved it. portraits of such a diverse crowd—Bette
WCT: You’ve been documenting queer cul- Midler, Grace Jones, Craig Russell, The Cock-
ture since 1969, including pictures from ettes, Tom of Finland, Ann Landers, Leonard
Chicago’s first pride march. What do you see Matlovich, The Pointer Sisters, Edie Sedge-

2. wick, etc. What is the key to taking a great
portrait shot of someone?
AE: With disco diva Grace Jones, I was hired
by Renslow to shoot her show, also IML [Inter-
national Mr. Leather], and Sally Rand. In Chi-
cago Chuck was always hiring me. I was the guy
with a camera. My style has changed a bit. Later
it became being honest, friendly and having a
The
conversation before pointing a lens in anyone’s
face. I’m always shooting my friends. I like to Photography of
A.J. Epstein
have some sort of symbol of their work in the
shot, like Ann holding one of her books, a prop
but something she is proud of. Then I get that
real smile and look in the eyes, it’s always in
the eyes. It used to be easy, but now there are a Subjects of A.J. Epstein’s photographs in-
few people I want to shoot very badly, but don’t clude (clockwise from top) Grace Jones; Fred
know them or anyone that does, so if anyone Halsted; Ann Landers; attendees at Chicago
knows Rachel Maddow, Lt. Dan Choi, Dan Savage, Pride Parade, early 1970s; tattoo artist Cliff
or Levi Kreis, give them my email. Raven; a ‘70s disco; photographer Robert
WCT: In Leatherman: The Legend of Chuck Mapplethorpe; and Tom of Finland.
Renslow there are some of your great evoca-
tive pictures of the era—photos of the Gold
Coast, Etienne, and Cliff Raven etc. What drew
you more towards the leather extreme as a
photographer?
AE: Well Dom Orejudos (Etienne) seduced me
off the Belmont El stop on my way to college
in the Loop back in the 1960s, the first leather
sex I ever had. He was wonderfully twisted. He
introduced me to Cliff Raven [the tattoo artist],
and I fell hard for the guy. I chased him for
almost a year. Cliff was my first older-guy-artist-
lover-teacher. He taught me about art, he got
me into printmaking, he took me to museums.
He was a very knowledgeable guy about art and
life. We remained friends for many years.
When Tom [of Finland] and Dom were having
the big show at Stompers Gallery in the East
Village in the late 1970s, Louie the owner and
Mapplethorpe wanted to include my erotic art,
but Tom didn’t want another gay artist, their
[his and Dom’s] work was similar enough. Robert
found out that Tom had never seen my artwork,
and set up a meeting between us at this crazy
party. Tom and I sat in the kitchen most of the
night. From that point on I was in the show, and
Tom would introduce me as his favorite young
gay artist, and he meant it. Dom was shocked
that I was the same scared goofy guy from the
El.
What drew me to the kinky side, well being an
alcoholic was sure part of it. I was there but at
times, not there. I always got the shot somehow.
Joe Gage had to remind me a few years ago that
I did the photography for his [porn film] clas-
sics, Kansas City Trucking Co, El Paso Wrecking
Crew, LA Tool and Die, and Closed Set. I even
did the poster for Kansas City Trucking. I was
so drunk back then working for Fred Halstead. I
got sober 34 years ago. God knows running with
Mapplethrope wasn’t going to help me get sober.
I ran with a crowd that was all crazier then me
so no one noticed how I clung to my bottle of
Southern Comfort and tab of acid. I loved to
shoot under that influence.
WCT: You also are quite renowned as a pho-
tographer of the roller-derby world. What
about that world drew your interest?
AE: My next book out this summer The Blonde
Bomber, and the new resurrected derby, I will
be selling and signing it at all the derby games,
and possibly a show at Chicago’s Aaron Pack-
ard Gallery. The Blonde Bomber, Joan Weston,
was a close friend and taught me to skate, my
grandmother Pearl Kahn worked for Leo Seltzer,
the father of roller derby. She managed the con-
cessions for the roller derby for about 20 years,
when other kids went to see the Easter Bunny
I was at the derby with Pearl. She was a very
special grandmother.
WCT: What makes a great photo?
AE: You can have all the equipment, lens, as-
sistants, studio, but if you don’t have an eye,
it’s just toys. As I said earlier, it’s always about
the eyes.
For more information about the work and
life of artist and journalist A.J. Epstein
please check out http://www.ajepstein.com
or http://www.spaghettibrains.com.