Trail Transcripts Part 2 041315 Chauca v. Park Management

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CMH OCR RMR CRR FCRR
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
- - - - - - - - - - - - - X
VERONIKA CHAUCA, :
10-CV-5304(ENV)
Plaintiff :
-against- : United States Courthouse
Brooklyn, New York
PARK MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS,
LLC, et al., :
April 14, 2015
Defendant. : 10:00 o'clock a.m.
- - - - - - - - - - - - X
TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
BEFORE THE HONORABLE ERIC N. VITALIANO
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, and a jury.
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff: LAW OFFICE OF ANNE DONNELLY BUSH
8 Main Street
Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706-1646
BY: ANNE DONNELLY BUSH, ESQ.
For the Defendants: ARTHUR H. FORMAN, ESQ.
98-20 Metropolitan Avenue
Forest Hills, NY 11375
Court Reporter: Charleane M. Heading
225 Cadman Plaza East
Brooklyn, New York
(718) 613-2643
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
produced by computer-aided transcription.

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146
(In open court; outside the presence of the jury.)
THE CLERK: The case on the calendar is the Chauca
versus Park Management Center LLC. Case number 10-CV-5304.
Counsel, please note your appearances beginning with
plaintiff's counsel.
MS. BUSH: Anne Bush for Veronika Chauca.
Good morning, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Good morning, Ms. Bush.
MR. FORMAN: For the defendant, Arthur H. Forman.
THE COURT: Good morning, Mr. Forman.
THE CLERK: Both sides are present.
THE COURT: Both sides are ready, are we ready for
the jury?
MR. FORMAN: Your Honor, I did ask about an
assistant hearing device for my client especially if he is
going to be testifying today. He did have a little problem
with yesterday and they said that they were going to get in
touch with your court clerk.
THE COURT: Have we heard anything?
THE CLERK: I was not called, but I can send an
e-mail.
MR. FORMAN: I was down in the computer room. He
said he would be coming up.
THE CLERK: And I believe he was up, but I wasn't
sure why.

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147
MR. FORMAN: I think that's what it was.
THE CLERK: I will find out what's going on.
MR. FORMAN: Okay.
THE COURT: And who are you calling first?
MS. BUSH: I'm calling Dr. Abraham.
THE COURT: So you want him first?
MS. BUSH: If it's a problem, I can switch him
around. It's not an issue for me.
THE COURT: You can take the other defendant first
and see if we can get the device installed.
MR. FORMAN: He also would like to hear what's said
while the trial is going on. He was struggling yesterday,
especially when they were, discussions from the bench.
THE COURT: I wish I had a magic cure for that,
Mr. Forman.
MR. FORMAN: He's willing to give it a try.
THE COURT: William is going to try to get him a
device, but we will proceed. If Ms. Bush wants to take the
co-defendant first, that will give us more time to try to get
somebody from IT to install whatever it is that we have.
MR. FORMAN: Dr. Abraham would like to go first and
if he can hear, he thinks he'll be able.
THE COURT: Okay. That is fine. We will still
endeavor to try to get that device for him. I will say I have
not seen one during my time here, so I do not know that it

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actually exists, but if the IT people think it does exist,
then we will be more than happy to see what we can do.
William and I were just chatting about that. We
know the interpreters have headphones.
MR. FORMAN: That's what it is. It's a wireless
headphone.
THE COURT: I do not know if they are -- are they
wireless?
THE CLERK: Yes, they are wireless. Yes.
THE COURT: But he would be wearing a headset during
his testimony. If we can get one of those, you have no
problem with that, Mr. Forman?
MR. FORMAN: No, that's what I saw someone carrying
this morning. I don't know if it was for the stenographer or
the witness.
THE COURT: Usually the interpreters have that
device, particularly when we have multiple defendants.
MR. FORMAN: I think it would be better than not
having it.
THE COURT: Okay. William is going to endeavor to
get that done.
THE CLERK: Sure.
THE COURT: And to the extent that we, it comes up
and we need to take a brief break to get him caught up, we
will do that, but I think we should proceed so we do not lose

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the time in the interim.
(Jury enters.)
THE COURT: Be seated, please.
Counsel will stipulate that the jury is present and
properly seated.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
MR. FORMAN: And the defendants, too.
THE COURT: Defendants are present as well.
Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. Welcome. We
certainly appreciate your promptness, your patience and
cooperation. We are ready to resume proceedings.
We have a couple of technical glitches that we can
try to resolve during the course of the day, but we think we
can go forward at this time and if you recall, we were on
plaintiff's case. We continue to be on the plaintiff's case
and Ms. Bush tells us she has another witness.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to call Dr. Jamil Abraham,
please, to the stand.
THE COURT: Dr. Abraham.
THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn.)
THE CLERK: Please state your full name and spell it
for the record.
THE WITNESS: My name is Abraham, A-B-R-A-H-A-M. My
first name is J-A-M-I-L.

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Abraham - direct - Bush
150
THE CLERK: Thank you. Please have a seat, please.
THE COURT: Be seated.
Ms. Bush, you may inquire.
JAMIL ABRAHAM ,
called as a witness, having been first duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Good morning, Dr. Abraham.
A Good morning.
Q Can you hear me okay?
A Yes, I do.
Q Where do you live?
A I live in Fresh Meadows, 73-33 174th Street, New York
11366.
Q Is that a house or an apartment?
A A house.
Q And do you own that house?
A No.
Q Who owns it?
A A trust owns it.
Q Who?
A A trust.
Q A trust?
A Correct.

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Q Who do you live there with?
A I live with Ann Marie Garriques.
Q You live together as domestic partners?
A We live together.
Q How long have you been living together?
A About 13 years.
Q Thirteen years. What do you do for a living?
A I'm a doctor. I'm just retiring. I am a doctor.
Q Where do you work?
A I don't work now actually. I used to work at 131-24
Rockaway Boulevard.
Q What's the name of that office there?
A It's Park Health Center.
Q Are you employed by Park Health Center?
A No. I own Park Health Center.
Q Do you receive a salary from Park Health Center?
A No.
Q Did you ever receive a salary from Park Health Center?
A I used to.
Q From when until when?
A I just tailed off my practice for the last three or four
years. Park Health Center is not doing much work. I, I
submit bills as J.M. Abraham, M.D., P.C., doing business as
Park Health Center. So Park Health Center is me.
Q When did you last receive a salary from the business?

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A Probably a year ago.
Q A year ago. Why did you stop taking a salary?
A As I said, we're tailing down. I'm 86 years old. I
can't carry on anymore. So it was just tail end. Just to --
I go there, I do occasional seeing a patient. Usually I don't
see any patients. Just administration is all.
Q You just do administration now?
A Correct.
Q So who runs the business at Park?
A I still own it.
Q But who runs it on a day-to-day level?
A I run it. There's no, there's no day-to-day element. I
run it when I'm there. So, when I'm there, I just administer
the last few patients we have a year ago, two years ago, and
somebody occasionally asks me see an x-ray or image. That's
all I do now.
Q How many days a week do you work at Park?
A I usually go every day.
Q And when you're not there, who runs the day-to-day
operations?
A Over there is, there are doctors there. There's about
ten, ten doctors. They work on their own and there's a
manager and the people run the office.
Q Who's the manager?
A The manager is Ann Marie Garriques.

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Q She's the manager of Park, is that correct?
A There's manager at Park, yeah.
Q Ann Marie is the manager at Park, is that your testimony?
A Correct.
Q What are Ann Marie's job duties?
A Duties is to see the day-to-day running of the facility,
scheduling the patients, scheduling the employees, make sure
the violations are taken care of, make sure all the machines
are accredited, up to standard, make sure that the
cleanliness, the file works, the telephones, the computers do
work properly.
THE COURT: And those were her responsibilities when
Ms. Chauca was an employee?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
Q How many employees are there at Park today?
A There are probably about 30 employees.
Q 3-0?
A Well, you can't say -- they're not employees of Park.
Park Health Center is me, J. Abraham, M.D., P.C. They're
employees of the facilities.
For example, there is department of physiotherapy.
They're employed in that department. The department, the
pediatrics, they're employees of that department. The
employees of the imaging department, that's the x-ray, MRI,
things like that, and they're employees of that department.

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They're not employees to me personally.
Q They're employees of the business, is that correct?
A Not the employees of Park Health Center, no.
Q What's the name of the business they're employed by?
A As I said, for example, the physiotherapy is, is called
Adam Cohen, DPH, I think, PC. That's the physiotherapy. The
neurology is called South Queens Neurological Associate, PLLC.
The employees of the imaging is South Queens Imaging, PC.
Depending on the department they work for.
Q What business is Ann Marie Garriques employed by?
A I think she's paid by the medical group which is called
South Queens Medical Associates Group, or something of this
nature.
THE COURT: And was that the case during the time
period that Ms. Chauca was employed?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: No? What was -- when did --
THE WITNESS: This is started about two years ago,
2013.
THE COURT: So let's focus on, Ms. Bush, the
relevant time.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So between 2006 and 2009, who was Ms. Garriques employed
by?

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A Well, to be honest with you, I think it's, it's Park
Management Systems.
Q And what happened to Park Management Systems?
A It still existing but it's tailing down a bit.
Q How many employees did Park Management Systems have
between 2006 and 2009?
A Around 30, 31, 32, 35.
Q And how many employees does it have today?
A The same number.
Q Is it your testimony that Ms. Garriques is no longer
employed by Park Management Systems?
A No.
Q Okay. Is Ms. Garriques employed by Park Management
Systems today?
A No. Park Management System is tailing down and the group
I just mentioned is taking over for the last two years.
Q Is it your testimony that Ms. Garriques is employed by
Park Management Systems today?
A No.
Q When did she stop being employed by Park Management
Systems?
A Since middle of 2013 when the group was established.
Q Okay. But it's your testimony that Park Management
Systems has 30 employees?
A No. At the moment, they don't have no employees.

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Q Park Management Systems, is that a viable business today
as we speak?
A Well, it's being tailing, tailing off. We are -- Park
Management System and Park Health Center, which I usually run
with, it was just the tail end of now. We do have only few
business to do. We don't have employees for that.
Q So Park Management Systems, that's a business that no
longer exists, is that correct?
A It does exist but we tailing it off.
Q And where did all the employees go?
A They were taken over by the group.
Q The name of the group is?
A I've just said South Queens Medical Group Associates.
Q Was it sold to South Queens Medical Associates?
A No, still existing.
Q So, all the employees from Park Management Systems have
been transferred to South Queens, is that correct?
A You can say that, yes.
Q Has Park Management Systems -- sorry. Strike that.
Okay.
THE COURT: Doctor, when you use the expression
"tailing off," is that an expression that has significance in
the medical profession?
THE WITNESS: You mean is the medical term, sir?
THE COURT: Is it an expression that relates to the

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way physicians retire from their practice?
THE WITNESS: The physician runs it, it's me, and
I'm retiring. There's only a few, you know -- there's some
few, few bills to be, recaptured. There are a few
administrative things to be done. We have a few bills to be
paid.
THE COURT: But you are also seeing patients from
time to time?
THE WITNESS: Nearly none, just -- no, no,
occasionally. Very occasionally, occasionally.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Did Ms. Garriques receive a salary from Park Management
Systems between 2006 and 2009?
A Yes.
Q Does she receive a salary today?
A Yes.
Q From Park -- from Park Management Systems?
A No.
Q Who does she receive her salary from?
A From the group.
Q And the group's name is?
A South Queens Medical Group, I think, PLLC, I'm not sure.
THE COURT: And do you have an interest in that
group, Doctor, you personally?
THE WITNESS: Yes.

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Q What kind of interest is that, please, sir?
A I'm one of the organizers.
Q Do you have a financial interest in the group?
A Not really, no.
Q What do you mean, is that a yes or a no?
A I get no salary from it.
Q Do you have any financial interest?
A No.
THE COURT: Do you get return on investment?
THE WITNESS: No.
Q So what reason were the employees of Park Management
Systems transferred to South Queens Medical Group PLLC?
A Because Park Management System and Park Health Center
were tailing off.
Q What does that mean, sir?
A It means they are not doing much business. We're nearly
closing it, but we have a few accounts receivable, a few bills
to be paid. That's why it's tailing off.
Q So all the employees were transferred from Park
Management Systems to South Queens Medical Group?
A Well, some of them were taken to the other entities.
There's a neurological entity, there's a --
Q You don't need to repeat that.
THE COURT: Did those entities that you articulated
earlier, did they exist as legal entities during the period of

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time that Ms. Chauca worked for Park Management?
THE WITNESS: Some of them were, yes.
THE COURT: Did the physical therapy entity exist
during the period as a separate legal entity during the period
2006 to 2009?
THE WITNESS: No, it didn't.
THE COURT: And during that period, Ms. Chauca
worked for Park Management?
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So what was the address of Park Management Systems
between 2006 and 2009?
A It's the same address. 131-24 Rockaway Boulevard.
Q Same address as what, sir?
A Same address as the other entities. They are four
buildings joined together. There's 131-24, 131-22, 131-18,
131-20, 131-16. Four building joined together under one, one
property, which is 131-24 Rockaway Boulevard.
Q And the employees who worked at Park Management Systems,
they're still physically in the same building today?
A Some of them are, yes.
Q Was there a time that you owned that building?
A I don't own the building.
Q Was there a time that you owned that building?
A No.

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Q Is it your testimony that you never owned that building?
THE COURT: You mean him personally?
MS. BUSH: Personally.
A No, I didn't.
Q Did you ever own that business as part of a corporation
that you belong to?
A I don't understand the question. Repeat again?
MS. BUSH: Can you repeat the question, please?
THE COURT: Let me try to clarify it.
Was there an entity -- let's lay the foundation.
When you worked in 2006 through 2009 with Park
Management, who owned the building that you worked in?
THE WITNESS: It was owned by, by a trust.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q What's the name of the trust?
A South Queens Property PC.
Q Do you have any kind of interest, financial or otherwise?
THE COURT: Any relationship at all to the trust?
Q Do you have any relationship at all with the trust?
A The trust belongs to my children.
Q The trust belongs to your children?
A Correct.
Q What are the names of your children, please?
A Five boys. Robby Abraham.
Q Robby?

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A Robby.
Q Okay. And what's his date of birth?
A He's 45 years old. I don't know date of birth.
The second one is --
Q Where does he live?
A In Israel.
Q Okay. Who else owns the trust?
A What was the question?
Q Who else?
A The second one is Alfred Abraham.
Q Alfred?
A Yes.
Q What's his date of birth?
A He's about 41, 42 years old now.
Q And where does he live?
A He lives in California.
Q Okay. Continue.
A The third one is his twin. He is called Benjamin
Abraham.
Q Yes. And how old is he?
A He's a twin.
THE COURT: That was a trick question.
MS. BUSH: Sorry.
Q Where does he live, Benjamin?
A In Westchester.

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Q Westchester.
Who else?
A The third is Irwin Abraham.
Q Yes. Age?
A Subtract two from the other one.
Q Thirty-nine.
A You could say that, yes.
Q Where does he live?
A He live in Long Island.
Q And the last one?
A The last one Joe, Joe Abraham, Joey, Joseph, J-O-E-Y.
Q How old is he?
A There's a gap between them, between the last one and the
fifth one is probably seven-year gap.
Q Fifty-two years old?
A Could be, yes.
Q He lives where?
A He lives in Israel.
Q And your five sons now own the trust?
A Correct.
Q When did they -- what date did they begin to own the
trust?
A From the start.
Q What date, please?
A I don't recall the start.

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THE COURT: Before or after 2009?
THE WITNESS: 2000 -- before.
THE COURT: Before or after 2006?
THE WITNESS: Before.
Q And who -- between 2006 and 2009, who owned Park
Management Systems LLC?
A It's a management system which was owned by two of my
boys.
Q Two of your sons?
A Correct.
Q Okay. Which two sons?
A It was Alfred Abraham and Ronnie Abraham and -- yes, I
think these two.
Q And when did they cease to own it?
THE COURT: If they did.
Q If they did.
THE COURT: Do they still own it?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q They still own it as we speak today?
A Yes. As I said, the dates are very fuzzy to me, but --
THE COURT: Is it still in existence?
THE WITNESS: Yes, it's still in existence.
Q And it's owned by your sons?
A Correct.
THE COURT: Did any of your sons at any time during

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the period 2006 to 2009 have any active involvement in the
operations of Park Management or any other entity operated at
the location on Rockaway that you gave us?
THE WITNESS: Other than Park Management System.
THE COURT: Did they actually have an involvement in
operating it?
THE WITNESS: No, I operated it.
Q Did Park Management Systems pay you a salary between the
years 2006 and 2009?
A No.
Q Did they pay Ann Marie Garriques's salary?
A Yes.
Q Ms. Garriques is currently employed at Park Health
Center, is that correct?
A No. She's employed by the group.
Q The group, the name of the group is?
A I just mentioned the group, South Queens Medical Group
PLLC.
THE COURT: You have a understanding, when he says
"group," that is what he means, unless he tells us it is some
other group.
Do you understand that, Doctor?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. There's only one group.
Q So between 2006 and 2009, Ms. Garriques -- I'm sorry. Is
it Garriques or Garriques?

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A You ask her, she says Garriques.
Q Okay. Between 2006 and 2009, was Ms. Garriques employed
by Park Health Center?
A No.
Q Or Park Management Systems?
A Park Management Systems.
Q And she received a salary, you just testified.
A Correct.
Q The plaintiff, Ms. Chauca, was also employed by Park
Management Systems, correct, sorry, between 2006 and 2009?
A Correct.
Q So in your role as the owner of Park, did you interview
potential employees between 2006 and 2009?
A You mean Park Health Center? Yes, I did. Yes.
Q Did anybody else interview potential employees?
A Usually I interviewed them and Ann Marie Garriques
interviewed them, and if they work for a special doctor, he
interviews them, too.
Q Your testimony is that Ms. Garriques also interviewed
potential employees between 2006 and 2009?
A Correct.
Q Anybody else interview potential employees?
A I just said, I just said if the person is willing to go,
to work for a special doctor, say, a gynecologist or a
physiotherapist or x-ray person, he has to interview them,

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too.
Q You personally interviewed Ms. Chauca, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Ms. Garriques interviewed Ms. Chauca?
THE COURT: Upon, on her hiring?
MS. BUSH: On her hiring, yes.
A Yes, I interviewed her. I usually interview the person
and then I'll tell the office manager this is the person who
I'm agreed to their being employed and we agree on a salary
and we agree where they work.
Q Between 2000 --
THE COURT: Excuse me.
MS. BUSH: Sorry.
THE COURT: When you say "agree," who are you
agreeing with, you and Ms. Garriques, or you and the employee?
THE WITNESS: And the employee.
THE COURT: You and the employee.
So you interview them, you agree on a salary and a
place where they're going to work.
THE COURT: And then they see Ms. Garriques?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Does she also interview them?
A Or in consultation. If I see a person and I said, I will

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ask her, I know their potential, I know where they fit in, and
then I asking Marie where I think they should be put and we
agree, both of us, all the three of us, on the salary, on the
hours of work and the days of work and where they should go.
Q Do you and Ms. Garriques -- sorry, between 2006 and 2009,
did you and Ms. Garriques make joint decisions about who to
employ?
A So-so, yes.
Q Is that yes or no?
A I said yes.
Q Between 2006 and 2009, you hired staff, is that correct?
A Yes. Yes.
Q And at that same time period, did Ms. Garriques hire
staff?
A Yes. We do together.
Q Do you have a business partnership together of any
nature?
A No.
Q Did you ever between 2006 and 2009?
A No.
THE COURT: During that time period, did
Ms. Garriques report to you or anybody else?
THE WITNESS: I didn't hear.
THE COURT: During the period 2006 through 2009 in
her position as office manager, did Ms. Garriques report to

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anyone?
THE WITNESS: She reports to the doctors if there's
a problem or with the patient, and then reports to me
regarding administration.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Between 2006 and 2009, did you ever fire staff at Park?
A No.
Q Did you have the authority to fire staff at Park?
A Yes.
Q Between the same time period, did Ms. Garriques have the
authority to fire staff at Park?
A No.
Q Other than the case today, have you ever been sued for
discrimination of any sort?
A I was recently --
MR. FORMAN: Objection.
THE COURT: Well, we are going to confine it between
2006 and 2009.
A Never.
(Continued on next page.)

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Side Bar
169
Q Have you recently been sued of discrimination of any
sort?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, relating to conduct that occurred
between 2006 and 2009.
MS. BUSH: May I have a side-bar please, Judge?
THE COURT: Sure.
(The following occurred at side bar.)
MS. BUSH: Yesterday in opening, Mr. Forman said as
part of his opening that the defendants have never been sued
for discrimination other than this case. That's not true
because he's been sued by Ms. Garriques in this discrimination
complaint.
THE COURT: By Ms. Garriques?
MS. BUSH: Yes.
MR. FORMAN: That's recent.
MS. BUSH: Yes, but you said yesterday in opening
that they've never been sued. You didn't say they've never
been sued prior to 2009. That was part of his opening
statement.
THE COURT: It is not really relevant nor is his
opening statement evidence.
MS. BUSH: Okay. So I can't mention this?
THE COURT: If it relates to conduct between 2006
and 2009. We are not going to combat his opening statement.

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Side Bar
170
MS. BUSH: Okay.
THE COURT: You did not object to it.
MS. BUSH: Yes, I didn't think it was the right
thing to do at the time. Okay.
(Side bar ends.)

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(In open court.)
THE COURT: Ms. Bush.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q You know the plaintiff, Veronika Chauca, is that correct?
A Repeat again?
Q You know the plaintiff Veronika Chauca?
A Yes, I do.
Q How do you know Veronika?
A She applied for the job. We had her work for us two or
three years. That's how we know her.
Q There's a time that she became pregnant, correct?
A Yes.
Q You knew that she was pregnant, is that correct? You
knew she was pregnant?
A Yes.
Q Did she give you notice, written notice, of her
pregnancy?
A Correct.
Q And you approved her maternity leave?
A Repeat again, please?
Q You approved of her maternity leave?
A Yes.
Q Do you know when she went out on maternity leave, the
plaintiff? When did the plaintiff go out on maternity leave?

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A Sometime in August.
THE COURT: Of? Do you remember what year?
THE WITNESS: I don't know the year. 2012. I don't
know the year.
Q Does 2009 sound about right?
A Could be, yes.
Q Was she supposed to return to work after her pregnancy
leave?
A Yes.
Q Did she return to work?
A No, she did not.
Q Why not?
A We didn't have enough work for her at the time.
Q What do you mean by that?
A The business was a bit slow. It was winter. And we
didn't have enough, too many patients, and that's number none.
Number two, there was a change in the HMOs, health
maintenance organizations, so our load of patients was lower.
And number three, we didn't have permanent
physiotherapist department.
Q Ms. Chauca had been there since 2006, isn't that correct?
A Correct.
Q And she was there prior to the other ladies in the
physical therapy department, Debra and Jackie, isn't that
correct?

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A I think so, yes.
Q And Ms. Chauca is a certified physical therapy aide,
isn't that correct?
A Certified is not the word I would use. Physiotherapy
aide is not a licensed category according to the education
department.
Physiotherapist, yes. Physiotherapist assistant,
yes, but physiotherapist aide is not one of the professions
recognized by the education department.
Q Where do you get this information from, sir?
A From the education department. Anybody can look at it on
the internet.
Q She gave you a certification, didn't she? A copy of her
certification as a physical therapy aide?
A That's a certification. That's not a license.
Q I didn't say license. I said was she a certified
physical therapy aide? Yes or no.
THE COURT: No. I am going to allow it. She
received the certification. If you want to go into cross as
to what that certification may or may not have meant.
A The certification --
Q There's no question pending, sir.
THE COURT: The question was, did she present to you
documentation that she was certified by somebody as a physical

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therapy aide?
THE WITNESS: Yes, she did.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Your claim is that business started to slow down and that
is why Ms. Chauca was let go, is that correct?
A I didn't hear the first part.
Q Is your claim that business was slowing down and that is
why Ms. Chauca was let go?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor. He didn't say
that Ms. Chauca was let go.
Q Is your claim that business was slowing down which is why
Ms. Chauca was not allowed to return from maternity leave?
A I wouldn't use the word "allowed." She didn't show up to
work. She just apparently make telephone calls to Ann Marie.
Q What do you mean she didn't show up to work?
A She didn't come to work. She didn't come and ask for a
job. She just make telephone calls.
Q But she gave you a letter saying she was going back in
November, isn't that correct?
A That's correct.
Q You expected her to come back in November, isn't that
correct?
A She -- expected yes, yes.
Q So why didn't she come back?
A Because the, the work was slow, as I said, as I

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explained.
Q But you just testified that she didn't turn up for work.
A Well, usually when you ask for a job, you come in, show
us the baby, show us she's proud with her child, ask for a
job.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to strike that. That is
unresponsive to my question.
THE COURT: No, I think it is responsive. I think
you want to probe it a little bit more.
MS. BUSH: Okay. Can I have my question read back,
please?
(Record read.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q What did you mean by she didn't turn up for work?
A Well, we have experience with other people that had been
in that place for five years plus, usually when they deliver,
they come proudly presenting their child and they tell us they
intend to come back to work and we make the arrangement,
whereby Ann Marie shuffles the people in such a way and tell
them, okay, come on such and such a date.
This didn't happen here. From -- I gather all that
happened was a telephone call and apparently she was, she was
informed, that yes, keep in touch with us, just give a time, a
breathing space so we can have you back.
That's my understanding.

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Q So Veronika did call and did want to return to her job,
is that correct?
A She -- wait. What was the second, about the call? You
said something else.
Q Veronika did call, is that correct?
A Not to me. She didn't call me.
Q She called Ann Marie, is that correct?
A Called Ann Marie, yes.
Q She wanted to come back to her job, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q So it's not true to say that she didn't turn up for work,
is it?
A She did not -- me, I meant, she did not come physically
to the job and tell us she's ready and could you have an
arrangement for her to start.
Q Because she was fired, isn't that correct?
A She was never fired.
Q So when Ms. Chauca went out on maternity leave in August
2009, who covered for her, her duties? Who covered her
duties?
A Well, we have, as you might imagine, staff working in the
office. We have many departments and Ann Marie will shuffle
the employees in such a way that we are not understaffed or
overstaffed in any of the departments.
So what we do, we get somebody who we think can do

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the job. Usually she's -- a therapy aid is simple work. It's
cleaning the bed, assisting the patient in and out, make one
or two telephone calls, make sure the hot and cold packs are
clean, listen to the physiotherapist, what instructions they
want to assist the patient.
So we can easily bring somebody, any of the, if it's
an assistant, for example, who has also a certificate in this,
in physical ed health, not, medical assistant. We use them in
such a way that we run the office smoothly without having, not
taking care of the patients properly.
Q So is it your testimony that at Park, you would shuffle
your employees according to your needs, is that correct?
A According to -- where they are needed, yes.
Q Were they employees of yours? Did they receive a salary?
A Yes.
Q They were independent employees?
A No, they are all employees.
Q And is it true that you would just lay people off and
pick people up as you needed?
A No, we don't lay people off. We, we put it in such a
way, we don't lay them off.
For example, if somebody working five days a week,
we tell them, look, take four days a week, or somebody working
full time, take part time, or if they're working eight hours,
only one session. We don't lay them off or fire them. We try

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to accommodate everybody.
Q Veronika had been there for three years, is that correct?
A How many years, you mean? She has been here two
thousand --
Q She had been there. She had been there three years,
between 2006 --
A Oh, you mean three. Yes. She had been three, that's
correct.
Q She was hired before Debra, is that correct?
A I don't know. I don't know.
Q Debra was hired in October 2006, isn't that correct?
A Debra was -- I don't know. Could be, yes, could be. I
have no idea.
Q So the plaintiff was hired in June 2006, isn't that
correct?
A Veronika, you mean?
Q Veronika?
A Veronika, I don't know the exact date. I have no idea.
Q She testified here yesterday that she was hired in May
2006. Do you remember that?
A No, I don't remember. If that was testimony, that's when
she was hired, yes.
Q And Jackie, in the physical therapy department, was hired
after Veronika, isn't that true?
A Yes, I think this is true.

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Q And Crystal Kahn who testified yesterday, she was hired
in May 2010, isn't that true?
A Yes, it is true.
Q So why wasn't someone with less seniority than Veronika
fired or let go when business was slowing down?
A Nobody was fired. Who you saying fired? I didn't say
fired. Nobody was fired.
Q Laid off? Why was Veronika laid off when she had the
most seniority?
A She was not laid off. She was told to keep in touch with
us and we try to have her back.
Q And did you ever have her back?
A She didn't come back, no.
Q How do you know?
A Because she didn't. I know who comes in the office and
who goes.
Q So when Veronika was out on maternity leave, isn't it
correct that Debra took all of her duties?
A Not, not all -- yes, you can say, yes. Yes.
Q Debra replaced the plaintiff, Veronika?
A Yes.
Q She covered for her maternity leave, is that correct?
THE COURT: Whose maternity leave?
MS. BUSH: Veronika's maternity leave.
A I don't know the exact tempo, dates, but I know that we

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had asked Debra to do some duties in the physiotherapy
department. That's all I know.
Q Did Debra cover for Veronika while Veronika was out on
maternity leave?
A Part of the time, yes.
Q What about the rest of the time?
A I think we had three people. We needed the three people
in the physiotherapy department. We need the physiotherapy
aide and the receptionist is usually -- and one of these three
people would be Crystal. The other one could be Jackie Stern,
a third one was Veronika and the fourth one was Debra.
So if we have three of them at the time or at least
two, this will cover the department needs.
Q And when Veronika failed to return from her maternity
leave, isn't it true that you gave her job to Debra?
A I didn't give her job to Debra. Debra was covering the
department at the time.
Q And Debra continued to cover it after Veronika was let
go, isn't that correct?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor. There's no
testimony she was let go.
THE COURT: The witness has not agreed that she was
let go. So you can rephrase the question.
Q So, Veronika, her job was given to Debra after Veronika
did not return from maternity leave, isn't that correct?

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A Debra was doing the job of physiotherapy aide and
reception at the time when Veronika was off.
Q Okay. Can you answer the question, please?
MS. BUSH: Can you repeat the question?
THE COURT: I think he tried to answer your
question, Ms. Bush.
MS. BUSH: So can you repeat the question, please?
(Record read.)
THE COURT: Notwithstanding anything else that Debra
did, do you understand that at some point, someone gave
Veronika's job to Debra?
THE WITNESS: I have difficulty with the word
"gave." We didn't give her job to anybody else. I don't -- I
have difficulty in answering "give." It's not like you have
an object to give from somebody to another. It's not like
that. Her job was not given to somebody else. I have
difficulty in interpreting this word.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So when Veronika went out on maternity leave, she had a
job, correct?
A Correct.
Q And when she, it came time for her to come back from
maternity leave, she had no job to go back to, is that
correct?
A She had a job to come back but we asked her to give us a

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breathing space so that we can put the people, to give her the
job and not have too many people in one space and too few
people in another. So we shuffled them around, the word
"shuffle," I mean not take them and push them here and there,
and give them the job so that we can have each department go
smoothly.
Q If there was a lack of work in the department, why wasn't
a less senior employee let go or laid off?
A Nobody was laid off. I didn't say anybody was laid off.
THE COURT: He does not recognize that term,
Ms. Bush. He talked about cutback in hours and things of that
nature.
Q So if there was a cutback in hours, why wasn't one of the
less senior employees, why wasn't their hours cut back?
A They were.
Q Whose hours were cut back?
A I don't know who they are. Remember, we said, usually we
would have meetings for the whole office to hash out a few
things, important to everybody, and we did tell them that
we're passing through a difficult period economically and for
our survival, future survival, some of you would be let, would
be, their hours would be cut out, just when we resume our
normal activity and have more work, we'll put you back to. We
did give some employees some letters to this effect.
Q Why didn't you cut back Debra's hours?

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A I think we did.
Q When?
A I think we did.
Q When?
A I remember Debra and I think probably -- we did. We did.
We did give them decreasing hours.
Q When?
A I don't know the exact dates. You want me to remember
every minutiae of this?
THE COURT: Let's try to focus on the time.
Your recollection of Debra getting less hours, was
it before or after or during Ms. Chauca's maternity leave?
THE WITNESS: I don't recall, sir. I have no idea.
Q Who would know?
A Her folder will be there. If we did this, we would
probably give it to her in writing and she acknowledged it and
it would be in her folder.
Q Who are you talking about?
A I'm talking about -- you're talking about Debra, correct?
Q So is it your testimony that Debra's hours were cut back?
A Yes.
Q But you have no idea when?
A Correct.
Q Okay. If hours are being cut back, why didn't you cut
Jackie's hours back?

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A I'm not sure we didn't. Probably we did.
Q Did you or didn't you?
THE COURT: He cannot recall.
Q Did you cut back Jackie's hours?
A I remember at the time, there were about six employees,
two of them from the physiotherapy department, the rest from
collection, which we decreased their hours. I don't know who
or when. No idea.
Q Were the hours decreased permanently or temporarily?
A Usually temporarily. As I said, we tell them let's pass
through the difficult period and give them back. Usually
temporary.
Q So did the hours become available again after Ms. Chauca
was not allowed to return from maternity leave?
A For who, you're talking about?
Q Ms. Chauca?
A No, for who, the hours for who? The hours for Debra, you
mean?
THE COURT: Maybe I misunderstand your question. I
think -- tell me if I'm wrong, Ms. Bush.
Did there come a time after Ms. Chauca went on
maternity leave that there would be sufficient work to allow
her to return to work?
THE WITNESS: For who, for --
THE COURT: For Ms. Chauca.

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THE WITNESS: Yes. There was, there was a time --
if your question is -- let me just rephrase the question
myself.
Was there a time when we could have had Veronika
full time? The answer is yes.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q When was that?
A Probably it would have been somewhere in January,
February, when the department picks up again.
Q So why didn't she come back?
A She didn't come back.
Q Why didn't she come back if the hours had picked up?
A She decide to sue me.
Q She decided to?
A Sue me.
Q What do you mean, she decided to sue you?
A By December 2nd, she sued us, I think, December 2nd,
December 3rd.
Q So how is that relevant to whether there were hours for
her to come back to?
A You want me to have somebody who already sued me? I
can't understand that. She went to court to sue us. If she
is going to sue us, she wants to come back?
Q So you fired her for suing you?
A No, I did not.

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MR. FORMAN: Objection. Objection, Your Honor.
She's using the word "fired." There was no testimony that
Veronika Chauca was ever fired.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So you didn't take her back after the hours were
increased because she had sued you, is that correct?
A Well, human nature, what do you think?
Q Just answer yes or no, sir.
THE COURT: Just answer yes or no.
A I don't know how to answer this.
Q Is the answer yes or no, sir?
A I can't answer that.
Q Okay. Was there ever a time you called Ms. Chauca to
come back to work because the hours had picked up?
A No, I did not call.
Q Did anybody call?
A I don't know.
Q Why didn't you call if the hours had picked up?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor. That was asked
and answered.
THE COURT: No. That specific question was not
asked and answered. She's asking why he didn't call if the
hours had picked up.
A If you're asking why didn't I call personally?
Q Uh-huh.

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A Well, the office is a huge base, many, many problems, and
I don't think I'll be asked a question whether a person comes
in and out, a special time or the basis. It's too much for me
to get this minutiae.
Q Did Ann Marie ever call the plaintiff to tell her that
the hours had picked up and she should come back to work?
A I think she did.
Q When did she call her?
A I think -- we left it the last time when we talked to Ann
Marie between us about Veronika, I told her, understand I do
general umbrella of the Park Health Center office, I do not do
this minutiae, which one comes in, what minute, overtime,
under-time.
So I talk in general with her and I told her this is
the story, we are a bit low now, so you inform her that she
keep in touch with her and when the time arrives, she can come
back. That's my understanding.
But did I call her personally? The answer is no.
Q When did Ann Marie call her to tell her she should come
back because the hours had picked up?
A I don't know whether, when and whether she did. I have
no idea.
Q Who would know?
A She would know.
Q Ann Marie?

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A Yes.
Q Okay. Was there a time when Debra became pregnant, the
second pregnancy?
A Yes.
Q And she went out on maternity leave also, is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q While she was out on maternity leave, did she pay a visit
to the office? Do you recall?
A Not to me personally.
Q What does that mean?
A I mean, I didn't see her. She didn't come and tell me
you became pregnant, seven months, eight months.
Q No. No. When she was out on maternity leave, did she
pay a visit to the office?
A To the office, I don't know if she did. Not to me
personally.
Q So is it your testimony that when Debra was out on
maternity leave with her second child, she did not come into
the office and speak to you, is that correct?
A She did not come to me. That's correct.
Q Okay. When was Debra supposed to return to work after
her pregnancy leave?
A The second one, you mean?
Q Yes.

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A She was supposed to come back after a period, usually,
usually two months, three months, but she wanted to come
earlier than that, is my recollection. She wanted to come two
weeks after delivery.
Q When was she supposed to return to work?
A We did not set a certain time. In other words, we did
not tell her you have to come back at such and such. We did
not say that.
Q Did Debra set a time that she was going to come back?
A Yes.
Q What date was she supposed to come back?
A No, no, no. This wasn't the question. Repeat the
question again. She was supposed to come back and she did
come back --
Q What date, what date was Debra supposed to return to
maternity leave?
A I just said Debra, we give them a leeway, according to
what their gynecologist tell them. We did not tell Debra that
you should come on such and such a date.
Q Did Debra tell you she was going to return on a certain
day?
A Yes, she did.
Q So what day was she supposed to return?
A The day was two weeks. This is my recollection, in
general.

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I think what she did, she wanted to come two weeks
after delivery. And seeing that that was too short for a lady
who already had a very high-risk pregnancy and she had already
had a miscarriage in the first one, we tell her, no, you can't
come so early. I think it's about two or three weeks,
something of this nature. We told her it's too risky.
Q Didn't Debra give you a note that told you that she was
to return to work on the 3rd of August, 2009?
A I don't recall that.
Q No?
A No.
Q Anything that would refresh your recollection?
A No. I think as I just said, it was, the period of two or
three months after delivery, we thought it's too risky. I
think at the time either we told her to get a letter from the
doctor that it's okay.
Q Dr. Abraham, did Debra give you a note to tell you she
was going to return to work on August the 3rd? Yes or no.
A I don't, I don't recollect that.
Q Okay.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to mark into evidence
Plaintiff's Exhibit 1, please.
Can I approach the witness, sir?
THE COURT: Is that stipulated in?
MS. BUSH: Stipulated in.

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MR. FORMAN: Yes, that's stipulated into evidence.
THE COURT: Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 received in
evidence without objection.
(So marked.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Do you recognize this document?
A Yes. No, I don't. I don't.
Q Have you seen it before?
A No, I haven't.
Q I'm just going to read this -- okay. This is a letter
from Debra Mahearwanlal to Sheila, the payroll manager, and
it's cc'd to you, Dr. Abraham, and Ms. Garriques, dated March
the 10th, 2009.
It says, Dear Sheila, this is to inform you I will
be on maternity leave from 6/12/09 through 7/31/09. I will
return to work on 8/3/2009.
Do you see that, sir?
A Yes, I see it.
Q Have you seen this note before?
A No.
Q You say you never received a copy of this note from
Debra?
A No, I did not.
Q Did she return from work, from maternity leave on the 3rd
of August?

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A My recollection is, if I read this letter now, she would
be on maternity leave from 7/31/09 and she want to come back
in three days after delivery, after maternity leave, three
days.
Q Okay. My question was, have you seen this note before?
THE COURT: He said no.
MS. BUSH: He said no.
Q Okay. There is no question pending.
THE COURT: You did ask him a question.
Q Did she return on the 3rd of August?
A I don't know when she returned, but my recollection is we
did not want her to return at the time she wanted to return
because it was a too short a period after delivery.
Q When did she return to work?
A I don't know when.
Q Did she return to work after the 3rd of August or before?
A I do not know that.
Q Who would know?
THE COURT: If you know.
THE WITNESS: I don't know who knows.
Q You don't know who would know?
A Probably the pay manager, Sheila, would know.
Q Isn't it true that you tried to fire Debra while she was
out on maternity leave?
A No, that's not true at all.

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Q Isn't it true that she had threatened to sue you because
you had fired her?
A No, that's not true at all.
Q Isn't it true that the only reason you rehired her was
because she had threatened to sue you for pregnancy
discrimination?
A Absolutely not.
Q There's a time that Jackie Stern got pregnant, isn't that
correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember when that was?
A No.
Q That was March 2010. Does that refresh your
recollection?
A No, it does not.
Q No? Did Jackie go out on maternity leave?
A I don't think so.
Q You don't think Jackie went out on maternity leave?
A No. Jackie -- no. Jackie had a very bad pregnancy and
she was in hospital most of the time. I don't think she asked
for maternity leave. I don't think so.
Q So when did she stop working at Park because of her
pregnancy?
A I don't know.
Q Was it after Veronika had been, had her hours cut?

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A No, I think it was before that.
Q Do you know when Jackie's baby was born?
A No, I don't.
Q Who would know?
A You mean in the office?
Q Yes.
A Probably Ann Marie would know.
THE COURT: Is that a record that you would keep in
the ordinary course of business?
THE WITNESS: I don't know, sir. I have no idea.
Q How long was Jackie out for?
A For a long time because she was having very bad
pregnancy. She was in the hospital, as far as I know. She
keep vomiting and abdominal pain and she was in hospital for a
long time.
Q It's true that Jackie put a claim in for unemployment, is
that correct?
A I wouldn't know.
Q Who would know?
A Sheila is the one who handled the employment.
Q Are you aware that Park denied Jackie her unemployment
while she was out sick? Are you aware of that?
A I'm not aware of that, no.
Q When did you receive a copy of the plaintiff's federal
court complaint?

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A There were two complaints, one of them with the state and
the other one was federal.
Q Federal complaint?
A Federal.
THE COURT: You mean in this action, Ms. Bush?
MS. BUSH: In this action.
A I don't know whether it was two months or three months
after the first one. The first one is early December, so the
other one should be about three or four months later, or two
months later.
Q So what date is that, approximately?
A I think March, April.
Q Of?
A 2009, I think.
Q The federal court complaint?
A I don't know the exact date, no.
Q Have you seen a copy of the complaint?
A At the time, yes.
Q Do you recall you had a date stamp on it?
A No, I don't recall.
Q Is there anything that would refresh your recollection?
A If I look at the, at the, at the document itself?
Q If I told you that the federal court complaint was filed
on November the 17th, 2010, does that have any recollection
for you?

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A I wouldn't doubt that. I wouldn't know.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to mark the complaint which is
already stipulated into evidence, please: Plaintiff's
Exhibit 9, I'd like to admit into evidence, please.
THE COURT: It is stipulated in?
MS. BUSH: Yes, it's already stipulated in.
MR. FORMAN: Yes, Your Honor. No objection.
THE COURT: Received in evidence without objection.
MS. BUSH: I don't have copies.
(So marked.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Do you recognize that document, Dr. Abraham?
A Yes.
Q What is it?
A It's District Court suing us, Veronika suing us for
discrimination.
Q What is the date stamp at the top?
A November 17, 2010.
Q Does that bring back your recollection, refresh your
recollection?
THE COURT: About.
Q About the date of the federal court complaint?
A This is the date. I can't doubt it.
Q Okay.
THE COURT: Do you recall it?

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THE WITNESS: I don't recall it, no.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Do you recall when you received a copy of the complaint?
A No, I don't.
Q Did you receive a copy in 2010?
A I must have. I suppose I did.
THE COURT: But you do not recall?
THE WITNESS: No, I don't.
Q So is it correct to say that you would have received a
copy of the federal court complaint sometime in early 2011, is
that accurate?
A That's accurate, yes.
Q And when did Jackie return to work after her pregnancy?
A I don't recall the date, no.
Q Was it after you received a copy of the complaint in the
federal case?
A I don't know.
Q Who would know?
A The payroll manager would know.
Q Sheila?
A Correct.
Q Isn't it correct that you tried to fire Jackie when she
was out on maternity leave?
A Absolutely not.
Q And isn't it correct that you only rehired her after the

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federal court action had been filed?
A Not true.
Q Was any -- in December 2009, was anybody laid off in the
physical therapy department?
A I don't think so.
Q Was anybody else's hours cut apart from Veronika's?
A Repeat the question again?
Q Was anyone's hours cut to the extent that Veronika's were
cut?
THE COURT: In December of 2009.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A I didn't understand. Repeat the question again, please.
MS. BUSH: Can you read the question back?
(Record read.)
MR. FORMAN: Your Honor, there's no testimony
Veronika's hours were ever cut.
MS. BUSH: He did testify.
THE COURT: I think he did, but we will ask him.
Were Veronika's hours cut?
THE WITNESS: Before she left?
THE COURT: No, in December.
THE WITNESS: Well, were Veronika's hours cut in
December?

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THE COURT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Which year?
THE COURT: 2009 after her maternity leave.
THE WITNESS: Veronika? She wasn't there. How can
we cut her hours?
THE COURT: Okay. Then let me ask you this so I can
understand it.
What was Veronika's status, to the best of your
understanding, in December 2009 in connection with Park
Management Systems?
THE WITNESS: She was away on maternity leave and
we're trying to fit her in when she had, when we had enough
work for her. That's what the status.
THE COURT: So she had no hours. You had no hours
for her then?
THE WITNESS: At the time she was out, no, we had no
hours for her.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So in December 2010, it's your testimony that you had no
hours for Veronika?
THE COURT: 2009.
MS. BUSH: 2009, sorry.
Q Is it your testimony that in December of 2009, you had no
hours for Veronika?
A We had enough staff at the time, so we had no hours for

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her until we make hours for her when she comes back.
Q Did you make hours for her?
A When we tried to, as I say shuffle around, when the
business become a bit more amenable to her, we try to call her
back.
Q Did you call her back?
A No. We did not call her back.
Q Why not?
A We did get, we did call her -- my understanding is Ann
Marie tried to get in touch with her to tell her keep in touch
with us and when we have a place, we'll call you back.
Q When the hours picked up, did you or anyone at Park call
her back?
A By then we had the suit on our hands and I don't know
that anybody called her. I don't think so.
Q So there were hours available but you didn't call her
because of the lawsuit, is that correct?
A I, I don't know how to answer that.
Q The answer is yes or no, sir.
A I can't answer that.
Q Okay. So in December 2009, were there hours for Debra to
work?
A We were trying in December before the lawsuit to have
enough hours for the others to call her back to work.
MS. BUSH: Can you repeat the question, please?

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(Record read.)
A We were trying to have hours for her when the business
would pick up.
THE COURT: No. No. The question was in 2009,
December, were there hours for Debra to work? Not Veronika.
THE WITNESS: Oh, Debra. I didn't hear the
question. Sorry.
A Debra?
Q Yes.
A Yes. There were hours for her. She was working.
Q Okay. So in December 2009, were there hours for Jackie
to work?
A Yes.
Q And in December 2009, were there hours for Crystal to
work?
A Yes.
Q But in December 2009, there were no hours for Veronika to
work, is that correct?
A Well, if we were going to, if we were, to come back, we
were going to shift either Crystal or Debra back to, to
another place to accommodate her, to accommodate Veronika.
Q So even though Veronika had been there the longest, there
was still no hours for her to come back to in December 2009,
is that correct?
A In December, 2009, we tried to accommodate all of them to

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have her back. We would have shuffled. Once the business
picks up, we would have had her back to work.
Q So in 2009, there were no hours for Veronika to come back
to even though she was the only certified physical therapy
aide in the department?
MR. FORMAN: Objection. Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. FORMAN: It's argumentative.
THE COURT: Absolutely. It is sustained.
Q You fired Veronika because she was on maternity leave,
didn't you, sir?
A We --
THE COURT: Asked and answered. Move on.
Q When did you hire Crystal?
A I don't, I don't know the exact date.
Q Approximately?
A I wouldn't know.
Q She testified yesterday she was hired May 2009. Do you
recollect that?
A Could well be.
Q So she -- Crystal was the last person hired to the
physical therapy department, isn't that correct?
THE COURT: In 2009?
MS. BUSH: Yes, 2009.
A I wouldn't know that.

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203
Q Who was the last person hired to the physical therapy
department in 2009?
A I wouldn't know that.
Q Who would know?
THE COURT: Are there records that would show that,
Doctor?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And who maintains those records?
THE WITNESS: The payroll department would maintain
it.
Q So is it correct that Crystal was the last one out of
Veronika, Debra, Crystal and Jackie, that Crystal was the last
one hired out of those four ladies?
A Out of those four ladies was she hired the last. Yes, I
think she was the last one hired, yes.
Q So if she was the last one hired, why weren't her hours
cut entirely?
A I didn't say her hours were not cut off. Her hours might
have been cut off. I don't know.
Q She had some hours in December 2009, didn't she?
A Yes, she did.
Q She didn't have no hours like the plaintiff?
A I don't know how many hours she had. I don't know how
many hours the plaintiff had at the time. No idea.
Q Who would know?

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A The payroll would know.
Q Would Ann Marie know?
A She might know. I don't know.
Q So usually -- would you agree, that if there are hours to
be cut, the last person in the department should have their
hours cut? Would you agree with that?
THE COURT: Is that a policy of Park Management?
Q Is that a policy of Park Management?
A No.
Q So what's the policy regarding whose hours should be cut?
A According to our need. If the person can do certain
things which we need, we keep them. If that person, we can
dispose of temporarily, we would decrease their hours.
Q Was Veronika disposed of temporarily?
A Veronika was not disposed of temporarily.
Q Does she work there today?
A I don't understand the question.
MR. FORMAN: I'm going to object to that question.
It's argumentative.
THE COURT: Yes, it does not matter whether she
works there today.
Q Who told you the business was slowing down as you've
testified?
A I know it myself.
Q How do you know it?

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205
A I know from the revenue, I know it from how many patients
come in and out, I know from the billing.
Q Do you have access to the accounts of Park, financial
accounts?
A Yes.
THE COURT: During what of time?
Q During 2006 and 2009?
A Yes.
Q And did you see that business was slowing down?
A Yes.
Q Have you ever produced any of those documents to this
court?
A I don't think I was asked to.
Q You were not asked to produce any documentary evidence --
THE COURT: Were those documents in your control or
the company's control?
Were you the custodian of the documents you are
referring to?
THE WITNESS: The documents, financial documents are
kept in the office. They're accessible to me. They're
accessible to the accountant.
THE COURT: Do you actually file them yourself?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Who does that?
THE WITNESS: The accountant shows them to me.

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206
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Who is the accountant?
A A firm in Manhattan. I think Rosenberg and Company.
THE COURT: And they were the accountants in the
period 2006 to 2009?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q Did you ask them to give you documentary evidence that
business was slowing down?
A I wasn't asked to and, no, I didn't.
Q Your attorney didn't ask you to produce documentary
evidence of your business slowing down for this lawsuit?
A No. No.
Q No?
A No.
Q Did your attorney ask you to produce any documentary
evidence of business slowing down for the purposes of this
lawsuit?
A I don't think I was asked to.
Q No?
THE COURT: Were you asked by your attorney, you
personally, to produce any documents?
THE WITNESS: In this regard? No.
THE COURT: In this lawsuit?
THE WITNESS: Correct. No.
Q Your attorney never asked you to produce any documentary

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207
evidence of the slowing down of your business, is that
correct?
A I don't recall anybody asked me.
Q Okay.
MS. BUSH: Just give me a second, sir.
(Pause.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So is it true that the plaintiff, Veronika, was sometimes
asked to do the job of a physical therapist? Is that true?
A I didn't get it. What was the question?
Q Okay. Is it true that the plaintiff, Veronika, was
sometimes asked to do the job of a physical therapist for
Park?
A No. No.
Q Isn't it true that you paid her with separate checks to
do the work of a physical therapist?
A No.
Q No? Have you ever seen any checks that were given to
Veronika for her work?
A We did give her extra checks for her, as an incentive,
yes.
Q As an incentive to what?
A To doing the range of motion.
Q To doing the --
A Range of motion.

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Q You paid her separately to do the range of motion work?
A Not separately, but to give her incentives.
Q You gave her extra checks to do the range of motion work,
is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Did you give anybody else extra checks to do the range of
motion work?
A I might have done, yes.
Q Did you give Debra extra checks to do the range of motion
work?
A I don't know.
Q Did you give Jackie extra checks to do the range of
motion work?
A Jackie didn't do range of motion.
Q And it's correct that you've never produced any
documentary evidence to this Court of business slowing down?
THE COURT: Yes. Sustained.
It is not a question of his responsibility. It is
Mr. Forman's responsibility.
Q Were you ever asked by your attorney to produce the
documents showing business was slowing down?
MR. FORMAN: Objection. Your Honor. We went over
that several times.
THE COURT: Yes, sustained. It is his obligation.

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209
He has already told us he does not maintain these documents.
Somebody else maintains them.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what happens in
the course of what we call discovery, there is certain
obligations to complete. You have seen some deposition
testimony taken, people can be asked to testify before trial,
so the lawyers get an understanding of the case.
There are also requirements to produce documents
that are available that fit into certain categories and each
party, each side, has an obligation to produce those kinds of
documents, if they exist. And it's not necessarily tendered
by the individual defendant. They are usually corporate
documents and they are usually maintained by a custodian of
record and it is the lawyers' jobs to go to those custodian of
records and see if there are documents responsive to the
demand of their adversary and to turn those documents over to
the adversary party so they can inspect them.
MS. BUSH: No further questions.
Thank you.
THE COURT: Okay. That brings us, again, we have
been doing pretty good getting, finishing blocks just about at
the time that we want to take a break.
So I promised you a mid-morning break and we are
going to take a mid-morning break. It is about the time we
would have taken it, but it is wonderful that we have

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210
completed the direct examination, so before we begin
Mr. Forman's cross-examination, we will give you, the jury,
and all of us, a break to refresh and to use any other rooms
that you might need to use. So about 10 or 15 minutes.
You are going to retire to the jury room. Do not
discuss the case amongst yourselves or with anyone else you
might run into, and certainly continue to keep an open mind
and you will be in the good care of Mr. Villanueva. Make sure
you do not get lost.
(Jury exits.)
THE COURT: Okay. So about 10 or 15.
Doctor, you can stand down or sit there. Whatever
is more comfortable for you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(Recess taken.)
(In open court; outside the presence of the jury.)
MS. BUSH: Your Honor, I'm not calling any other
witnesses.
THE COURT: You are not calling Ms. Garriques?
MS. BUSH: No.
THE COURT: Doctor, you can take the stand.
Are we ready to go? Are you ready, Mr. Forman?
MR. FORMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
(Jury enters.)

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properly seated.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are
ready to begin.
As you recall, we just ended the direct examination
by Ms. Bush. We are now ready to do the cross-examination by
Mr. Forman.
MR. FORMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.

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Abraham - cross - Forman
212
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Dr. Abraham, you gave testimony and you heard questions
about a certificate for being a physical therapy aide.
A Yes.
Q Do you recall that?
Are there any other employees at Park that have
certificates?
A Yes.
Q And what type of employee would have a certificate?
A Usually, these employees goes to some people who teach
them certain things. For example, physiotherapy aid, medical,
not assistant, medical helper. This sort of thing. They give
them certificates. It's not any significance.
They teach them certain things which any normal
person would, would absorb in one day in the practice. They
give them these big certificates. It doesn't really mean much
really. It's not education department certificate or license.
We take it, we take it as it is, that they did some
work. In many of these specialties, they, they sort of make
them feel happy they have a certificate. They proudly bring
it but it doesn't bring much. In real life, you need somebody
who gets trained on the job.
Q To be a physical therapy aide at Park Health Center, is
it required to have a certificate?

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A No. No. It doesn't require a certificate, no.
Q And why do you say that?
A Because it's a simple staff, simple job. All you need is
somebody who can clean the bed, clean the room, assist the
patient, take him from the reception to where he's supposed to
have the physiotherapy.
It's not that highly sophisticated specialty.
There's not really a specialty. Any person, probably six
hours would learn it, probably less than six hours.
Q If I can ask you about the situation in the physical
therapy department at Park Health Center around the time --
A Could I have this a bit on because this morning was
working very well.
Q Dr. Abraham, directing your attention back to around the
time that Veronika was in the physical, physical therapy
department at Park Health Center and was going on maternity
leave, do you recall that was around July and August of 2009?
A Correct.
Q And do you recall who were the employees that were
working at Park Health Center in July and August 2009?
A Park Health Center, there was about --
Q No, in physical therapy department where Veronika was
working.
A There was Crystal, I think Crystal, Jackie and might be
another person who I don't know.

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Q Okay. Was Debra there around that time?
A When Jackie went to maternity leave, before she went, no.
Debra wasn't there.
Q Okay. So it was Crystal, Jackie and Veronika, is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q Anybody else?
A I don't think so.
Q Okay. And how would you compare the job duties of
Veronika to the job duties of Jackie at that time?
A No, Veronika was much more, had much more expertise than
Jackie, specifically for the range of motion.
Q Okay. How about their other duties? How would you
compare, not their performance, their duties, what they did at
work?
A Regarding the physiotherapy, roughly the same thing.
Q Okay. Is there a back, some of the physical therapy, a
person who worked in the back and someone who worked in the
front. Have you heard those terms used?
A Yes, the front room is reception. When people come off
the elevator, the first person they see is the receptionist
and that's what they call the front.
The back, that's where the person, the visitor, the
aide stays with the physical therapist doing what we just
described.

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Q Okay. And did Jackie work in the back and the front or
where did she work in the physical therapy department around
July of 2009?
A Well, I can't specifically separate because if somebody
in the physiotherapist has somebody working with him, that
person go to the reception, which is the front.
If there's already somebody in the front, they go to
the back, et cetera. They interchange.
Q Okay. And is that true also for Veronika around that
time?
A Correct.
Q And what about Crystal around July and August of 2009?
A I think Crystal, Crystal was mainly receptionist.
Actually, she was a receptionist for -- actually, she was a
receptionist for the physiotherapy and for the psychiatrist,
psychologist, who works in the same floor.
Q And how often, if ever, did Crystal work in the back
room?
A I wouldn't be able to tell. She, as I said earlier, if
we want the person to go to the back room, so to speak, to
help in assisting the patient, to lay them on the table, to
calm them down, to ask, to tell the physiotherapist the
patient is ready for you, then she'll go to the back. It's
nothing esoteric. Nothing high, sophisticated. Something
simple.

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Q In July and August of 2009, besides Veronika, how many of
the employees working in the physical therapy department --
I'll withdraw that.
When Veronika went out on maternity leave at the end
of August 2009, where was Debra?
A Debra was a medical assistant on the first floor, which
is mainly the medical part, pediatrics, the adult medicine,
the x-ray department.
Q And how long had she done that job after coming back from
maternity leave?
A Debra, when she came back from maternity leave, did not
go to the first floor. I think by then, Veronika left, and we
have, she go work in the physiotherapy department.
Q And that's as soon as she came back from maternity?
A No. When she came back from maternity leave, I explained
this morning, she wanted to go back to work in a matter of two
or three weeks, and we told her it's too early, seeing that
she already had a miscarriage a few months before she became
pregnant with the second pregnancy, and she's high risk, so we
asked her either to bring us a letter from gynecologist or she
take it easy.
So we have her only a few days, two days or three
days a week, I think, just to phase her in slowly, because we
didn't want her to have a tragedy on our hand.
Q And where was she assigned when she came back?

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A Debra, when she came back, she was told to go to the
physiotherapy. She started physiotherapy.
Q And for how long did she stay in that department?
A She stays -- after part time, she stayed full time and
she still doing the job there.
Q So how about in, let's say, when Veronika wanted to come
back, who was in the physical therapy department?
A There were, should be three people then: Debra, Jackie,
and Crystal.
Q And did there come a time when there were four people in
the physical therapy department?
A When they what?
Q Were there four people in the physical therapy department
after that?
A I don't think so. I don't think we have four people.
Too much for us to have four people there. There's not that
much work for all.
Q And when, after December of 2009, how long did Jackie
stay in the physical therapy department?
A I don't -- I have no idea. I don't know how long she
stays. I don't know.
I think she, she stays from there on. She didn't
quit.
Q Is she there today?
A Jackie is there today, yes. She's still working.

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218
Q And has she been there since December of 2009, other than
her maternity leave?
A I think so.
Q If I may show you plaintiff's, I believe it's admitted
into evidence as plaintiff's -- it's marked as Plaintiff's
Exhibit 9, is that correct? That's the complaint.
THE COURT: It is in evidence.
Q Can you take a look at Plaintiff's Exhibit 9 in evidence.
You should have a copy of it. The attorney took it back?
THE COURT: Is it on your table there, Doctor?
THE WITNESS: No, not on my table.
Q That's the complaint. It should be several pages.
THE COURT: He says he does not have it on the
table.
MS. BUSH: How many pages are in evidence?
THE COURT: There is more than that, but they do not
necessarily stay there. Somebody may have taken it back to
the counsel table, but 9 is in evidence.
MR. FORMAN: Can I have a copy for the witness? The
marked copy, I'd like to show that copy to the witness.
MS. BUSH: He's got a copy. We gave it to him.
MR. FORMAN: Counsel says she doesn't have it.
THE COURT: Which one is that, sir?
MR. FORMAN: Plaintiff's Exhibit 9.
THE COURT: Isn't that the complaint?

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219
MR. FORMAN: Show it to the witness.
(Pause.)
MR. FORMAN: For the record, that should be a
17-page document.
THE COURT: And it is the complaint in this action.
MR. FORMAN: Yes.
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Now, Dr. Jamil, do you see the second page, paragraph 8.
I can read it to you. It says, paragraph 8: On or about
December 2009, plaintiff filed a complaint jointly, underlined
jointly, with the New York District Office of the New York
State Division of Human Rights, NYSDHR, in quotes, under case
number 10138266, and with the United States Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission, EEOC in quotes, under federal charge
number 16-GB-001070. These filings satisfied the requirements
of 42 U.S.C., Section 2000 C-5. The complaints charge sex
discrimination, pregnancy discrimination and harassment
against defendants.
These filings were within 300 days after one or more
occurrences of defendants's discriminatory conduct against
plaintiff.
Do you see that paragraph?
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay. It says that on or about December 2009, plaintiff
filed this discrimination complaint of pregnancy

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discrimination, sex discrimination and harassment.
Did you get a copy of that complaint in December of
2009?
A Yes.
MR. FORMAN: If I can show the witness what has been
marked as Defendants's Exhibit B in evidence.
Q I'm going to ask if you can take a look at that.
(Pause.)
Q And this is the EEOC letter. It says that the person
filing the charges, Veronika Chauca. The date of the
violation is December 3, 2009. It has an EEOC charge number.
It's addressed to Park Health Center, attention to you,
Dr. Jamil Abraham, and it's dated at the bottom, December 11,
2009.
Do you recall getting a copy of this document?
A I don't remember. I must have received it. I don't know
it.
Q Okay. Is it your testimony that in December 2009, you
already knew that you were being sued for pregnancy
discrimination by Veronika Chauca?
A Yes, that's correct.
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q If I can show the witness what has been marked as
Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 in evidence also.
(Pause.)

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Q Dr. Abraham, this is the letter that you signed when
Veronika Chauca wanted to go on maternity leave. It's dated
August 20, 2009, and it has a signature at the bottom.
Do you recognize whose signature that is?
A Yes. Two signatures, one Veronika's and the other,
initial by myself.
Q Okay. Can you tell us what happened when -- did you
receive this document around August 20, 2009?
A Yes, I did.
Q Okay. Can you tell us what happened when you got this
document?
A Well, Veronika came to me, handed me this letter. She
said I'm pregnant. I tell her congratulations. I think I
said mazel tov in Hebrew, which means congratulations, and
this, you're fine, take your time, whatever you want, but show
it to Ann Marie.
Q Do you see where it says she says, "I will be out for two
months"?
A Yes.
Q And do you see that she wants to return to work on
November 23, 2009?
A Correct.
Q And she gave you this letter in August 20th?
A Yes.
Q Did you notice that it's three months, not two months?

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A Yes, yes, two months, but she come back in three months,
according to this, yes.
Q Well, when she handed you the letter, did you notice that
it was three months instead of two months that she wanted to
come back?
A No, I didn't.
Q When did you first notice?
A I did not notice this discrepancy two months she come
back. It doesn't matter for us. Whenever she want to come
back, she come back. So I didn't make notice of it.
Q What is the policy at Park Health Center with regards to,
let's say, vacation leave, not maternity leave, vacation
leave?
A They usually tell us they have a special number of days
they can take vacation, according to their years of work. So
they choose their time. They usually informally, tell us or
write to us, then we, we accommodate them accordingly.
Q And what's the policy at Park Health Center with regard
to other time off, other leave, not relating to vacation, not
relating to illness, and not relating to maternity leave?
Someone wants to go back to their country. A lot of people at
Park Health are originally from other countries, is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q All right. So somebody wants to go back to their

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country, what's the policy at Park Health Center?
A There's no set policy where we force them to take the
time, special time. It's up to them. We very loose in this
respect.
They go and we usually, as I said the word shuffle,
I don't mean shuffling, we accommodate and put people in other
place as far as we can make the whole departments go smoothly.
So there's no special restrictions.
Q Do you recall the first time that Debra went out on
maternity leave? Was that the first time before or after
Veronika?
A The first time she was -- you mean the first pregnancy?
Q Uh-huh.
A The one in miscarriage, that was before.
Q And for how long was she out?
A I don't think she was out too long. I think after the
miscarriage, she took a few weeks off and she came back.
Q And Debra's pregnancy, that wasn't for a year or two
after Veronika, is that correct?
A It was before, I think.
Q I'm sorry. Jackie's pregnancy, yes. You just testified
it was before, Jackie's pregnancy?
A Jackie's pregnancy, the question was before also?
Q Jackie's pregnancy, did she get pregnant at any time
before Veronika?

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A I think she did, yes, I think before.
Q Jackie did?
A Yes.
Q Are you sure?
A I'm not sure. I don't get personal, personal life of all
these people. As far as the office goes smoothly, I don't
care.
So the dates when -- you asked me the date when
Crystal -- no, not Crystal. Jackie became pregnant? I have
no idea.
Q As far as the range of motion machine, did Debra do that
kind of work, too?
A Yes.
Q But -- did Jackie do that kind of work?
A No.
MR. FORMAN: I have no other questions.
THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Forman.
Anything, Ms. Bush?
MS. BUSH: No, sir.
THE COURT: You're excused.
(Witness excused.)
MS. BUSH: No further witnesses, Your Honor.
THE COURT: And the plaintiff rests?
MS. BUSH: Plaintiff rests.
THE COURT: Okay. All right.

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225
Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of a
building block. We are going to take a very brief recess, let
you go back to the jury room. We have some things that we
need to attend to in court that do not involve the jury and
then call you back.
Do not discuss the case among yourself, and just
because we finished a building block, the case is hardly over.
Continue to keep an open mind.
(Jury exits.)
THE COURT: The jury has been excused. Are there
any motions --
THE COURT: -- at the close of the plaintiff's case?
MR. FORMAN: For the defendant, we would like to
make a Rule 50(a) motion for judgment as a matter of law.
Oral motion.
It's the defendants's contention that the plaintiff
has not shown that her pregnancy played a sufficient part in
motivating the defendants to terminate her. She's testified
several times she did not know why the reason was that they
would not take her back. Those were her testimony several
times.
The mere fact that at the time she did not return,
whether she was terminated or not, even believing her
testimony, giving credence to her testimony that she was

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226
terminated while she was pregnant, is not sufficient to find
under discrimination under the federal rules, state rules nor
the city rules.
THE COURT: Ms. Bush -- further?
MR. FORMAN: And we would ask that the plaintiff's
case be dismissed.
THE COURT: Ms. Bush, do you wish to be heard on
defendants's motion?
MS. BUSH: Yes, the plaintiff proved her prima facie
case. She has proved part 4 of the case. She testified
numerous times yesterday that she was fired because of her
pregnancy discrimination because she was out on maternity
leave. There's no other reason to fire her. It was the only
reason that was different from her previous three years of
work.
We've also shown proof that she was replaced by
Veronika.
THE COURT: By Debra.
MS. BUSH: By Debra, sorry. By Debra. She was
replaced by Debra.
Her witnesses testified that she was replaced by
Debra. Shirlie testified she was replaced by Debra. Crystal
testified she was replaced by Debra. It is also been proved
to be a pattern of practice of that type of discrimination at
Park.

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The plaintiff has testified that Debra was fired
while she was out on maternity leave. Jackie was fired.
Shirlie testified that Jackie was testified. And Crystal
testified that Debra, Jackie was fired during maternity leave.
That is enough to show, raise an inference of discrimination
in this case.
THE COURT: Okay. The Court will reserve decision
on the plaintiff's, defendants's motion.
Anything else? Are you ready to start, Mr. Forman?
MR. FORMAN: Yes.
THE COURT: We will send William back to get the
jury.
So we can go to about 15 minutes. If you get to a
logical break before that, like 5 of or 1:00, let me know and
we will stop then.
MR. FORMAN: I'll try to do preliminary work for
discovery.
THE COURT: Good.
(Jury enters.)
properly seated.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
MR. FORMAN: And for the defendants, we do.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, thank

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you. We are ready now to begin, start the next building
block. If you paid careful attention to the preliminary
instructions that you received yesterday, you know that the
next building block is the defendants's case. Mr. Forman
tells me he has a witness ready.
Mr. Forman.
MR. FORMAN: The first witness would be Ann Marie
Garriques.
THE COURT: Take the stand, Ms. Garriques.
THE CLERK: Raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn.)
THE CLERK: Please state your name for the record
and spell it.
THE WITNESS: My name is Ann Marie, A-N-N, M-A-R-I-E
my last name is, G-A-R-R-I-Q-U-E-S, and it's pronounced
Garriques.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: You may inquire, Mr. Forman.
MR. FORMAN: Thank you, Your Honor. If all the
witnesses need that device, it might create be feedback.
THE COURT: I do not think anyone needs it other
than Dr. Abraham.
MR. FORMAN: I think it's creating a feedback.
THE COURT: So we can shut it off.

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Garriques - direct - Forman
229
ANN MARIE GARRIQUES,
called as a witness, having been first duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Ms. Garriques, can you tell us your address?
A My address is 73-33 174th Street in Fresh Meadows,
New York 11366.
Q And do you live with Dr. Abraham?
A Yes.
Q And for how long have you been living there?
A I've been there longer than Dr. Abraham. I would say
I've lived there for 18 years.
Q Who are you currently employed by?
A I'm currently employed by South Queens Medical.
Q Prior to that, who were you employed that?
A Prior to that, Park Management Systems.
Q And for how long were you employed by Park Health
Management Systems?
A I was employed from 1993 until the last two years when
the system changed to South Queens Medical.
THE COURT: Is that 2013?
THE WITNESS: Yeah. I think, yeah.
Q And do you have a family?
A Yes. I have two children.

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Q And when were they born?
A It's very difficult to talk about my children, extremely.
So I want you all to excuse me.
I have, I have two children. Michael and Michelle,
that I had to leave in California to take employment in
New York to support them. At the time I lost my home. My son
was living in his car and my daughter had to live with
strangers because I had a very bad divorce. So I lost
everything.
Q And that was in where?
A That was in California.
Q And how did you wind up in New York?
A I met Dr. Abraham in 1978 when I came from London. My
grandmother brought me to the clinic and as usual, you know,
they like to show off their granddaughter that I was a nurse
from London, and she wanted to know if Dr. Abraham needed a
nurse, or have jobs and he said yes.
So that's how I met Dr. Abraham.
Q What is your highest level of education?
A I have a college degree. I graduated from the London
University like, I don't know, when I did my credits here, you
know, they give and take with the education. So I think it's
similar to a bachelor's degree.
Q And do you have any licenses or certificates?
A Well, I have a lot of certificates. I was a licensed

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nurse in, to start, but then I gave it up. I went to
community outreach because I loved doing that thing. I loved
helping people.
Q Where was that?
A It started back in California, back in the '80s, '84,
'89. When I found out there was a lot of single moms and just
hardship people were having, so working in a medical facility
there, I was drawn to that sort of, you know, caring for these
women and children.
I actually, prior to losing my house, used to have
my mom watch the single mom's children in my house so their
mothers could go to work.
We didn't charge them.
Q Going back to London, what kind of work were you doing
there?
A Actually, when I worked in London, I worked at North
Hampton and I work at Warden Eye Unit, I used to do
ophthalmology. I liked that.
Q What was your job or title or position?
A Right. When I was there, I was, they called me what they
call a sister, and my last job in London at Warden Eye Clinic.
I was an OR nurse assisting the surgeon.
Q Why did you leave England?
A I actually left London because, at the time, the salary
was very low and my aunt, who sponsored me, felt that it would

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be better for me to come to the States for a better life.
Q So you came to California?
A I came to -- no. I came directly to New York. I stayed
in New York from 1978 to 1983 when I was separated from my
husband, I had only my son, but as usual, I had to -- no,
think about the child. It wasn't a very good marriage. So he
asked me to come back, which I did, and I moved to California
from 1983 to 1993 then I came back to New York.
Q What were you doing in New York the first time?
A The first time I worked at Dr. Abraham's office on and
off, and I also worked with the agency, going into people's
homes, taking care of them, that basis.
Q As an aide or as a nurse?
A As an aide, because I wasn't licensed to work in the
States yet.
Q You did that for five years?
A I literally did, yes.
Q And then you got back with your husband in California?
A Correct. I got back with my husband in California and we
stayed together, we stayed together for a while, but it was a
very abusive marriage. I ended up in the intensive care unit
with punctured lungs and it was horrible. So I had to get
out.
Q And you went back to New York?
A Actually, after the divorce, which was 1989, I was

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working in California. I worked at Hanson Medical Group, you
know, doing the, what you call a review manager because HMOs
were just coming in to, so they train you how to do the
history, look at the cases before they were submitted, and I
did that for a while, but the salary that I was making was
equivalent to a master's, which I didn't have, and when you
get to a certain maturity, I mean people don't tell you that,
I was downsized, and at the time I couldn't afford to take
that salary.
So I called Dr. Abraham's office just by mistake and
he said, yes, I remembered you. I had a heart attack and I
need somebody to manage.
So, my aunt sent me the plane ticket and I came in
'93 and I've since been here. I left my young kids.
Q When did you have your second child?
A I had my second child at age 32, I did.
Q Where were you when you had your second child?
A I was in -- she was born in 1984, so I was in California.
Q And when you came to New York, were you hired by
Dr. Abraham?
A Yes. When I came back the second time to New York, yes,
I had called him in advance. As I said, my aunt, who I lived
with, sent me the plane ticket and I came and he hired and,
you know, I started, I noticed the office was very disheveled
and being that it's a minority community, and because I've

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always had the passion for caring for people, I stayed on and,
you know, just make it better. And that's when I started my
outreach in 1994 with the American Cancer Society.
Q In 1994, what kind of work were you doing with them?
A Okay. In 1994, I don't know if you guys are familiar,
there were a lot of women that had no insurance and they had,
what you call the Queens Breast Health Partnership through the
American Cancer Society. So I felt that was important because
this is a minority, poor medical area. There was so much
health disparities.
So we started that where you get funding from the
State and you, you know, screen the woman for Pap, colonoscopy
and mammography.
Q You stayed employed with Park Health Center since then?
A Correct. And extended my outreach to the mother and
children, you know, you have a lot of them that are homeless
and I do the young girls that come out of prison that have no
where, I mentor them.
I don't know if you heard about the young adult,
YSPC, program through the high school where the government pay
the children so we could reform them back into society. And
that's what I basically do, and runs the office, but my
outreach is my priority.
Q And do you have the health fairs at Park Health Center?
A I have a lot of health fair. Every year I go to the

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churches. I have a big one that they look forward to because
they love that I make jerk chicken for them, and I have a
great time doing that. I really do. I love it.
Q For how long have you been doing that?
A Oh, my God. I've been doing it from 1994 until present.
I even get the politicians involved.
Q Is that a day-long a fair or longer?
A It's a day long. I usual usually start 10 to about
3 o'clock.
Q And what happens at the fairs?
A We do free blood pressure screening, blood sugar
screening, colonoscopy. We give them the kit to take home.
We weigh them. We give them information that they could take
back to their primary care doctor, if they're not our doctors,
and we really educate them on obesity. You know, we have the
charts and all that good stuff, preventive care.
Q And what's your job in these fairs? What do you do?
A Well, I usually coordinated. Make sure I get vendors to
come in, you know, go to the politicians, see if I could have
money to help set these fairs up. That's basically, yeah.
Q And have your job duties at Park Health Center ever
changed?
A I don't think so. What I mainly do is, in the, I make
sure that we have staff to work. I give them their schedule.
I want you to understand the reason why I work at

Trail Transcripts Part 2 041315 Chauca v. Park Management

Trail Transcripts Part 2 041315 Chauca v. Park Management

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Trail Transcripts Part 2 041315 Chauca v. Park Management