1. Meeting Minutes
December 2, 2010 Joint Union/VMAC/Aboriginal Network Meeting
ATTENDEES:
VMAC Executives/Members 2010 – 2011 (Newly Elected) and NRCan EE Employees and
union executives.
INVITED GUEST:
Myriam Montrat
Director General of the Discrimination Prevention Branch
Canadian Human Rights Commission
Meeting Summary
Angelo Mangatal, newly elected Chair of VMAC (November 25, 2010) invited a small group of
VMAC executives and members to an informal luncheon discussion with Myriam Montrat, DG,
Canadian Human Rights Commission to discuss matters of concern to visible minorities.
Angelo welcomed the gathering and stressed the importance of VMAC working more closely
with the unions and upper management (including representatives of the Canadian Human Rights
Commission (CHRC), represented at this meeting by DG Myriam Montrat).
Myriam stated that the latest employment equity audits have demonstrated that out of the four
designated employment equity groups, the most under-represented in the Public Service was the
Visible Minority Group.
Angelo shared his reaction to the comment made by some individuals at the VMAC 10th
Annual
Symposium of November 25, 2010 that VMs were well-represented or even over-represented in
the Public Service, but they fail to self identify. Angelo confirmed that there was no statistical
basis for this assertion and that the current problem of lack of self- identification is more of a
perception than actual empirical evidence. In addition, the reasons for lack of self-identification
are more complex than alluded to at the Symposium.
Other opinions expressed were that the statistics might well be skewed because VMs did not
identify themselves. Angelo reminded the group that the Senator at the Symposium last week
described the situation at Justice Canada with respect to recruitment, retention and promotion of
VM’s as deplorable - until the Senate applied pressure to correct the situation. She further went
on to express her opinion that given her experience and knowledge of the reality that visible
minorities face in the FPS she would not recommend the FPS as an employer of choice.
Myriam agreed that the issues are complex however, the underlying barrier to self-identification
was a perception among visible minorities that if they self-identify, colleagues and others would
Visible Minority Advisory Council
Le conseil consultatif des minorités

2. view them as having obtained their positions on the basis of their race or skin colour rather than
for reasons of merit. This baseless argument was heard in the early days of addressing the under-
representation of women in the executive ranks of the FPS but objections soon dissipated as we
all knew that women were always qualified but due to reasons other than merit (gender bias, etc.)
they were denied opportunities and advancement. For the visible minorities the argument seems
to persist despite the fact that VM’s have more experience and higher qualifications than the
general population. This persistent baseless perception makes some people (VM’s) reluctant to
self-identify. She said that it has to be explained clearly to employees and managers that self-
identifying does not give anyone an unfair advantage over others, and that employment equity is
not the same as Affirmative Action as in the US. “We are meeting a target, based on analysis and
legal requirements we do not hire for reasons other than merit,” she said. In fact, the 2002 VM
Career Assignment Program (CAP) initiative was not as successful as it should have been and
that ‘CAPPERS’ in this process were held to a higher standard due to the large number of VM’s
who tested above the already rigorous and high standards set for the program.
Members pointed out that the problem of VM’s being over-qualified for their positions still
persists. The issue is not so much with recruitment as it is with advancement. Stagnation in the
same position is common while VM’s perform above their substantive levels for years, often
even training colleagues who progress many levels above their VM peers for reasons not
associated with merit.
Angelo said that beyond the numbers and statistics, we need a culture change. “We need a fair
and transparent system where promotions and other benefits are accessible to all,” he added.
With the downturn in the economy and the impending budget cuts, downsizing, and
reorganizations in the FPS we need to ensure that visible minorities and other equity groups
…”last hired are not first fired (laid off, WFA, reorganized out of positions, etc.) “.
Myriam agreed that the culture of change is important. She emphasized however, that the law
(Employment Equity Act) by itself was not sufficient. She said that the Canadian Human Rights
Commission has revamped the employment equity audit process and has developed a maturity
model for human rights, which includes diversity, to advance the conversation past the debate on
numbers.
Myriam spoke further about the Commission’s new initiative the Human Rights Maturity Model.
She said that this initiative encourages organizations to take employment equity steps that are
beyond the minimum requirements of the Employment Equity Act. It included a process for
making employers and managers understand that it makes sense from a business standpoint to
give equal opportunities to all people, including the employment equity groups.
The ‘voluntary’ CHRC Model has been presented to PCO and the Treasury Board and both
organizations have expressed interest.
Myriam also indicated that in moving the conversation on employment equity forward it may be
prudent to review the terminology we use (the term visible minority for example) – we need to
find a better way to engage the conversation to reflect the changing demographics of Canada.

3. Members shared that the generally accepted view of corporate culture is such that whenever
there were management meetings, it was very unusual for anyone to voice a dissenting opinion
from that of the most senior official or executive in the organization i.e. Deputy Minister, ADM,
CEO, CFO, etc.
It was noted that a best practice that seems overlooked is to ensure that Visible Minorities are
present on the Boards that do the hiring to represent a diversity of opinion and ensure fairness,
transparency, and equity in staffing actions. There was a dissenting opinion as some questioned
the efficacy of this solution, because the reality is that it cannot be assumed that a Visible
Minority member of such a Board would necessarily speak up for other VMs just by virtue of the
board member being a VM him/her self.
Angelo indicated that any voice representing others VM or otherwise should be well informed on
the issues, and prepared to speak the truth to the higher authorities despite any threat it would
potentially cause to career advancement. We need members and colleagues who will act and lead
the FPS culture change through fearless knowledge-based representation and provide real and
tangible support for their colleagues. This is the key to achieving the equity and fairness goals
we all desire. He also said that it was important for all visible minorities to support the work of
VMAC and their unions as social history has proved that in any severe economic downturn it is
the equity groups that are disproportionally adversely affected more so than other groups. The
unions and VMAC may be the only safety net to ensure fairness and equity.
Myriam agreed with Angelo that it was important to have employees and managers step up to the
plate on these issues. Support by all levels of Management and peers cannot be over-emphasised.
Angelo stressed the importance of working in partnership with unions and Networks such as
PSAC, PIPSC, PwD, Aboriginal Networks, etc. Furthermore, he urged VMAC members to
become experts on their own issues rather than try to seek outside “experts.” To this end in his
dual role as President PIPSC and Chair VMAC, he will be hosting Lunch and Learn Sessions to
educate staff on the FPS renewal and employment equity.
Since the Symposium and election of some new executive for VMAC there has been, a number
of VM’s expressing interest to become sector representatives for VMAC in the department. We
will need to obtain continued senior management support for this to encourage Sector
representatives to be visible and active within their sectors.
The meeting concluded with a comment by Myriam that for the new Maturity Model of Human
Rights to succeed, it was important to have the combined commitment of the leadership, unions,
and networks.
Conclusion
Discussion Themes:
• Beyond the letter of the law (Employment Equity Act) - the Maturity Model of Human
Rights
• The need for strong voices from the VM community to speak up and make their voices
heard

4. • To challenge the status quo and prevailing perceptions about “over-representation”
• To work in solidarity with other unions, management and other networks
• A call for all members to be proactive and active within VMAC and their bargaining
agents
* Note attached presentations provided as reference documents on the themes discussed
Final word from the Chair:
As leaders and people managers, we must understand all of the fundamental
elements for creating a welcoming environment in the workplace and how these
elements interact
We must also develop the skills necessary to take on leadership roles in order to
make this happen
“Life has meaning when you are engaged in a purpose that you deem to be MIGHTY!
….The joy in life comes from being loved and respected for undertaking it!”
– Angelo Mangatal, Chair VMAC and PIPSC NRCan Branch
President (2010)
Additional Notes:
BIO Myrian Montrat
Myriam Montrat was appointed Director General of the Discrimination Prevention Branch in May
2007. Prior to joining the Commission, Myriam Montrat was the Director, Service Delivery and
Partnerships, Canada Business, at Industry Canada, where she was responsible for
government service delivery to small and medium enterprises and directed several multi-
jurisdictional (federal, provincial, territorial, municipal levels) initiatives requiring the creation of
linkages and development of partnerships between the federal government and key
stakeholders. Previously, Myriam was Director, Official Languages, and Intergovernmental
Affairs at the Privy Council Office, where she coordinated and facilitated the management of
major horizontal files affecting the whole of government. She was also Associate Director of the
Office of Regulations and Compliance in the Tobacco Control Programme, where she was
actively involved in the many facets of regulatory development, including compliance and
enforcement. She also led the Quebec Region’s Tobacco Control Programme for one year.
Prior to her career in the federal government, Myriam worked for the private sector as a
consultant on international issues. She is a graduate of the Career Assignment Programme and
holds a Master’s Degree in Public Policy and Public Administration from Concordia University
(Montreal) as well as a BA in International Relations from Colby College (Maine).