Reexamining Bergdahl swap in light of desertion charge
Reexamining Bergdahl swap in light of desertion charge
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 25, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and
may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling in -- this is a Fox News alert. The
administration traded him last year for five very dangerous Taliban leaders who have locked up at
GITMO. Today, Bowe Bergdahl has been charged by the army with desertion and more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COL. DANIEL KING, U.S. ARMY FORCES COMMAND: The U.S. army forces command has
thoroughly reviewed the army's investigation surrounding Sergeant Robert Bowdrie Bergdahl's 2009
disappearance in Afghanistan and formally charged Sergeant Bergdahl under the armed forces
Uniform Code of Military Justice on March 25, 2015. With desertion, with intent to shirk important
or hazardous duty and misbehavior before the enemy by endangering the safety of a command, unit
or place and has referred the case to an Article 32 preliminary hearing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Bergdahl faces potential life in prison on the charge of misbehavior before the enemy,
five years on the desertion charge. He also faces dishonorable discharge, reduction in rank and
forfeiture of all of his pay. He may face court-martial if the charges aren't dropped after the
preliminary hearing. K.G., let's talk to you for a second. They avoided the death penalty. Why do you
think they did that?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's going to be necessary in this
particular case. I don't think it has good optics for anybody involved. The whole point was we bring
our own home. We have done that at great expense. At great expense to those that looked for him,
searched for him, tried to rescue him and lost their lives, to the families who are waiting for their
loved ones to come home, and that day will never happen. Then, of course, even worse is now the
fact that the five Taliban commanders were emancipated courtesy of United States of America. And
Susan Rice says that this man, we're joyful for his family and that this is a guy who served with
honor and distinction. It is opposite day?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Nice callback. Charged with misbehavior before the enemy, it sounds
like a panty raid at the barracks, misbehavior. But he was charged with running away, surrendering,
endangering safety, cowardly conduct or in the eyes of the left, heroism. As you said, Susan Rice
said he served with distinction, but that's the point. You know, in these evil bush wars, desertion is
distinction. He did the right thing by leaving his men. Can we finally admit for once that Susan Rice
may be the least competent civil servant in history? She's so divorced from reality that reality should
pay her alimony.
BOLLING: Save some of that, because we're going to do Susan Rice bet (ph) in a couple of minutes.
GUTFELD: I will repeat the joke.
BOLLING: We would -- you could, it was that good.
BOLLING: We were watching this press conference a little earlier. No questions. You and I both kind
of scratched our heads a little bit.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: No, I actually, I thought that that was the right thing to do. I was
surprised that apparently, and I don't have this squared away yet, but apparently, the military in
Fort Bragg, the army today did not give a heads up to the Pentagon that this was coming today. So
there was a little bit of a scramble and there was a surprise. There had been an accusation for
several months or a question, because the report was taking so long that there was a spot that
maybe it was going to be whitewashed, OK. That they were trying to look for a way to get Bergdahl
out of any trouble that he might have been in. That is not what they announced today, and in
particular, the thing I thought was most interesting is the possible charge about endangering safety.
So in the investigation, they must have found something that convinced them that not only did he
walk away, but that he then did something additional with possibly knowing that he was doing the
wrong thing to put our troops in harm's way, and that I think is where this case will definitely move
forward more swiftly. And that it's very important I think also not just for justice for the families but
also for troop morale, because they need to know that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
JULIE ROGINSKY, GUEST CO-HOST: And we know what he did, I mean, it's endangered safety. We
do have evidence that there were men who died, because they were looking for him. There were
reconnaissance missions to look for him and they died, and not enough to said about those men. I
don't have time to read all their names today.
BOLLING: I do.
ROGINSKY: Well great.
BOLLING: Can I do it?
ROGINSKY: I would love you do.
BOLLING: I will do it right now.
ROGINSKY: Thank you, yes.
BOLLING: Staff Sergeant Clayton Bowen, First -- Private First Class Morris Walker, Staff Sergeant
Kurt Curtiss, literally, 2nd Lieutenant Darryn Andrews and Staff Sergeant Michael Murphrey.
ROGINSKY: Yeah, and I thank you for reading that, because I think not enough is said about the men
that he did endanger who ultimately paid the price for his behavior. And look, what happened to him
is clearly not what he anticipated happened to him, when he walked away, but nevertheless, there's
probably not enough punishment for what he did --
BOLLING: Let's move on to some of the politics surrounding this. Remember when President Obama
staged a photo-op alongside Bergdahl his parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Sergeant Bergdahl missed
his birthdays and holidays in the simple moments with family and friends which all of us take for
granted, but while Bowe was gone, he was never forgotten.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Remember when Susan Rice hailed him as a hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Certainly, anybody who's been held in those
conditions in captivity for five years has paid an extraordinary price, but that is really not the point.
The point is that he's back. He's going to be safely reunited with his family. He served the United
States with honor and distinction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And remember Bergdahl's former platoon mates who knew all along that was certainly
not the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, THE KELLY FILE SHOW HOST: Raise your hand if you think he deserted. Ah. Raise
your hand if you have some question about whether he deserted. Wow.
EVAN BUETOW, BERGDAHL'S FORMER PLATOON LEADER: This is not about politics. This is about
the fact that Bergdahl walked away from us, went to try to find the Taliban, and we know that for a
fact, and we were all there. And there's not one person you could find who would say they don't
believe that. At least who was there? He's not a hero. He did not serve with distinction. That's a spit
in the face to everyone who joined the army and anyone who died looking for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: Alright, Greg, there's a huge basket here. Reach in, what you got?
GUTFELD: I think you know, he know why, they should say why he deserted, was it was about a
video. He was so upset about that anti-Islam video that he had to leave. Is that clearly is their excuse
for everything. This is a real big, fat stain on Obama's Monalisa. That picture-perfect rose garden
ceremony that was basically his triumphant moment of self- congratulation -- look what I've done. In
a way, that was the movie version of the rescue, and right now we're experiencing the reality of that
rescue. That there's an ugly, ugly underside to that rock, and it doesn't look pretty. If you think
about all the major foreign policy mistakes, whether it's Yemen, Benghazi, ISIS, the return of Al-
Qaeda, Bowe Bergdahl, this administration is dumber than a box of burqas. (ph) They're getting
BOLLING: Victory lap. Julie, bad idea or what?
ROGINSKY: Well, bad idea for Susan Rice, who obviously by this point must have --
BOLLING: How about Obama?
ROGINSKY: Must have known. Obama, listen. We had to get him back. We don't leave our men
behind. We don't leave Americans behind.
BOLLING: Fair enough. Fair enough.
ROGINSKY: And so I think the press conference, I'm hopeful, that the press conference was about
that. Look, he's going to pay a penalty. I hope it's a steep one. I think he's already paid a steep
penalty, being held hostage for five years. I hope the penalty even steeper at the behest of the
United States government, but we had to get him back.
BOLLING: K.G. --
GUILFOYLE: We didn't have to get him back at the expense of the safety of our troops who die.
BOLLING: Wait, wait. Can we just --
GUILFOYLE: And with the Taliban commanders.
BOLLING: That's -- those --
GUILFOYLE: Why --
BOLLING: Hit on that.
GUILFOYLE: We're not supposed to negotiate with the enemy and give up five serious individuals
committed to jihad against the United States of America and resupply their -- let's replenish. We're
just a factory resupplying Taliban commanders. I mean, that is so wrong that they did it. And they
clearly had no understanding of the situation that they would parade this fool around in front of the
whole world, calling him somebody who's a hero who served with honor and distinction. What is
wrong with that?
ROGINSKY: So he's --
GUILFOYLE: If this a private sector? They'd all be out of a job.
ROGINSKY: Such as we have left an American citizen.
BOLLING: No, no.
ROGINSKY: For good.
BOLLING: You're conflating that, too.
ROGINSKY: No. What?
BOLLING: No. Get him back but as Kimberly points out, there we're other options that were -- that
were on the table. We are learning their other options. Can I bring this to Dana? If there were other
options, was training five GITMO detainees all about liquidating GITMO?
PERINO: Yes, I think so. I think that the White House got intoxicated with the idea that this could be
the beginning of President Obama showing that he could get the numbers down at GITMO enough,
that he could then fulfill a campaign promise that he has been unable to fulfill. I don't understand
the zeal with which they tried to fulfill that campaign promise when, aside from a very small strain of
people on the left, and maybe that includes President Obama, maybe that's why. There's not a
clamor for closing GITMO. There in fact, there's a question of, why don't we fill that up with people
that we're capturing.
GUILFOYLE: Pack it.
PERINO: So that can find out if there's going to be additional attacks like in Paris or in Pakistan,
when the children were killed, when 140 children were killed. I do think that they got stars in their
eyes thinking that they, this would be the beginning of the end. And, I find it really hard to believe,
but I can imagine how it can happen -- that this whole process is going through the White House, a
lot of different offices at the White House would have to have some sort of input into this rollout at
the rose garden. And it doesn't appear that anybody raised their hand and said, do you think we
should maybe wait on this? Or maybe we could get the president some credit by just having him a
photo released of him on the phone calling the parents, rather than inviting them to the rose garden.
There doesn't seem to be any ability for them to just slow down on the politics. They, they govern in
the way that they plan to campaign. And I think that they wanted to do that for 2014.
BOLLING: So, so Julie, a part of this deal, a deal to get Bowe Bergdahl back is, we gave up five
Taliban commanders. In one year from that date, and that was May. So we're coming up on that one-
year anniversary. They were free to do what they want to do. Catherine Herron points out, three of
the five have already attended to rejoin the terror fight.
ROGINSKY: This was a terrible, horrible deal. However, for our turn would have been for us to send
American service men and women to try to spring him. He possibly would have died, OK. But they
also possibly could have died. And so, I think that calculus probably would of all the bad options, the
least that options is the option that they took. I'm not suggesting it is or it isn't. I don't know what
the intelligence was on this.
PERINO: Maybe that's true.
ROGINSKY: But, you know --
PERINO: But now that have been -- even if, if that's, that's could be true. But then why, within the
next 24 hours, do they not have the presence of mind to dial it back? Every time Susan Rice has
gone on the Sunday shows, she's actually known beforehand, that what she's about to say is not true.
GUILFOYLE: Just like when she -- the video.
PERINO: Like the video. And I find that very bizarre.
GUTFELD: Yeah. But it goes back to -- this interesting element, GITMO. What does GITMO
symbolize? It symbolizes everything that a progressive hates about America. It's the thing that drives
GUTFELD: Yeah, Americanophobia. So the whole thing is it they have GITMO on the brain. And that
causes them to make really, really stupid decisions. So they knew. They knew that this guy was a
problem, but they wouldn't let that stop them, because their ideology had snowed their intelligence.
They had no way to operate -- intellectually.
GUILFOYLE: I just don't get it. Not if -- first of all, they shouldn't have traded even one, OK? But oh,
no, why stop at one when you can do two, I mean, three even better.
GUTFELD: That's true. There was an argument.
GUILFOYLE: But better than three, four, five.
GUTFELD: There had to be an argument over that.
GUILFOYLE: It's not.
GUTFELD: Over like four. But it's true, what they want seven. Well, we'll give them five.
BOLLING: No, they wanted three.
PERINO: They didn't want --
PERINO: They didn't want just any five.
PERINO: The Taliban said, we specifically want these five.
ROGINSKY: Because Israelis see this all the time. Remember Gilad Shalit who was captured in Gaza.
PERINO: Oh, she's blaming the Israelis.
ROGINSKY: I'm not blaming, quite opposite. I'm actually commending the Israelis for not leaving
their men work at (ph).
BOLLING: Why blaming the Israelis --
ROGINSKY: Oh, my God. Stop, I love Israelis. I'm saying the Israelis have done the right thing in this
many times. Most recently, they treated Gilad Shalit who was captured in Gaza and spent many
years there, for many more terrorist who are an Israeli prison, because they have a policy --
PERINO: But at least the Israelis know how to track them.
ROGINSKY: They don't --
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, and they don't blow them up and murder them later.
ROGINSKY: They don't, they don't -- maybe we'll blow these guys up. We're good at drones, you
know, that's the one thing we are very good at. We are good at droning people with that.
BOLLING: K.G., tell us just a little about -- about this trial. The first initial trial in front of one judge.
BOLLING: He's gonna testify, there's going to be witnesses on both sides. We're going to hear about
GUILFOYLE: We are going to hear about it. And finally, we're going to get the transparency that
we've all been promised. So, I mean, this is, this is know, you know, winning cause for anybody at
this point. At least, like you said, for the troop morale will matter. To hear the truth, because they've
been vindicated when they were coming out in front, being courageous when people were, like, oh,
really? Maybe you're just mad. Maybe they didn't like it. Maybe they --
PERINO: Maybe they want money.
PERINO: Remember that was the accusation.
GUILFOYLE: Maybe they want cash, maybe they want to write a book, and everyone was
questioning the motives and the intentions of those that had served with him, that didn't abandon or
desert their posts. OK? That served honorably and faithfully and put it on the line for him. This is an
important lesson I think, in American history and I hope people hear it well.
PERINO: What do you think that their -- his lawyer will say at the hearing?
GUILFOYLE: They're going to try and say, this come -- some kind of misunderstanding. Let's say put
him on the stand to say, listen, that is not with my intention, right. It will come down to what was his
specific intent. Did he intend at the time to desert, or was he suffering from some kind of mental
disease or defect or something that impaired his judgment? Did he have some kind of post-traumatic
stress and anything they can do.
BOLLING: He was there to wait (ph).
GUILFOYLE: To try to mitigate -- right.
BOLLING: He was in battle (ph) --
GUILFOYLE: It doesn't matter, but defense attorneys will come up with anything --
GUILFOYLE: Hello, I've seen them put a twin.
BOLLING: Is that in defense?
GUILFOYLE: On the stand to say, the twin did it not my guy. Let him go.
BOLLING: Is PTSD a possible defense? He was (inaudible) --
GUILFOYLE: They can raise anything they want to try and mitigate. To see what they can do, but I
think it's going to be very difficult for them to do so. We already know, just by the nature of the
charges that they brought and the long process by which they deliberate -- to bring these forward, I
think the government has a very serious case against him.
GUTFELD: Yeah, and you can count on this, that there will be supporters for him, especially in the
media, again, looking back at this --
GUILFOYLE: Rolling Stone cover?
GUTFELD: This Bush -- yeah, we've -- he will be on the cover of Rolling Stone, it will be a wonderful
picture and it will talk about how -- he is the victim.
BOLLING: It's misunderstood.
GUTFELD: He -- the victim. He -- you know, he went to fight to help people to actually help people,
and it turn in -- he didn't like what he saw, and he was the brave one who walked off. That's how it's
going to be portrayed by Slate and Salon.
BOLLING: One (ph) of would get him -- he'd lose his pay, right?
BOLLING: But if they tie these deaths, these five deaths, and maybe a six then I am sure, to hit the
fact that they were looking for him --
BOLLING: Doesn't that --
GUILFOYLE: It amplifies.
BOLLING: make it to go, to put it higher?
GUILFOYLE: And absolutely. I mean, look, he deserves life without possibility of any kind of parole
of getting out. That's what he deserves for it. I mean, he's lucky that he's able to serve and be here
on U.S. soil.
PERINO: And in no other country -- well, maybe no other country, but we are one of the only
countries in the world that would allow him to continue to live, even if it is behind bars. Most other
countries would not tolerate this for one second. And there wouldn't be five hearings.
PERINO: To make the decision.
ROGINSKY: My final thought is again, I -- and I commend you for reading the names, we do have,
because we're talking about, let's just be mindful of the fact that there are many, many people whose
lives have been affected by his behavior and it's devastating and these men who died are Exhibit A,
who got penalized more than anybody else for this.
BOLLING: I may have bootch (ph) with the first name, Staff Sergeant Clayton Bowen, First -- Private
First Class Morris Walker. I hope his right.
GUILFOYLE: Well, for the families, justice.
GUILFOYLE: Delayed is not justice denied.
BOLLING: Very good. Alright, much more in The Five, coming up, Ayaan Hirsi Ali schools Jon
Stewart and the difference between Christianity and Islam, stay tuned for that, next.
GUILFOYLE: She's lovely in the show this morning.
PERINO: She's one of the most outspoken critics of Islam and not just those who terrorize in the
name of it. Ayaan Hirsi Ali believes Islam itself, needs a reformation now. It's part of the title of her
new book Heretic that hit bookstores yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW HOST: Why does Islam need a reformation
AYAAN HIRSI ALI, AUTHOR, HERETIC: WHY ISLAM NEEDS A REFORMATION NOW: Because
unfortunately, too many people are dying in the name of Islam. Too wound (ph), too many women
they found the oppression. Too many Jews are being demonized for it, too many gays are being killed
in the name of Islam, too many Christians are being killed.
STEWART: If Christianity went through almost the exact same process, people who thought they
knew better and were pure and that created violence and so why is -- I get the sense that you think
Islam is different than other religions.
ALI: Well, I'm saying this. Christianity went through that process of reformation and enlightenment.
It came to a phased where the mass of Christians, at least in the western world.
ALI: Have accepted tolerance in the secular states, and morality of the 7th century.
ALI: Doesn't apply in the 21st century.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Ali is confident Islam can be transformed to a religion of peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI: I'm a brand new American, I'm an optimist. 1989 happened, we defeated National Socialism.
We defeated communism. Protestants and Catholics are at peace with one another. If you believe in
that human so, you will believe in the human so of an Islamic reformation. And as Americans, I think
we need to believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Kimberly, you met with her this morning. She's extremely -- in person, she is extremely
impressive, and I spent the afternoon reading the back half of the book. She does say that she's
actually -- she's optimistic. For as much as she's gone through and she's seen and for as much threat
as she remains under, she thinks that there's a chance that we possibly are in a reformation now or
that it could be accelerated by some of our help.
GUILFOYLE: She thinks it can be accelerated and she's very clear on her view point that she
believes the United States should continue to lead the way. That we're in a power of great
opportunity and position of strength to have influence to do, good in the world, that we should not
be a country that is retreating or adopting isolationist policies. She also feels that there are specific
forward movements that have been happening now that she thinks are very encouraging, and she
cited one example of a woman who was lynched. And the other woman rose up to carry her coffin,
which is also like forbidden in the Muslim religion, and to show respect and honor for her and defy
all odds. She said it's moments like that, that she feels that we are heading towards that important
reformation of Islam.
PERINO: She also says, Greg, in here on page 217, she says that repeatedly, you have to continue to
say that the connection between violence and Islam is too clear to be ignored. That she's politely
suggesting that the United States government, the Obama administration, should be willing to say
the same thing, because that would help with the reformation.
GUTFELD: Well, again, it points to the fact that Islamophobia is real, but it's being used wrongly.
President Obama -- to some extent Jon Stewart has a fear of Islam that causes them to equate all
religions as equal and inflicting harm. It's not -- the point is not a new one. What, what Jon Stewart
was saying, it really like, religions are like a little bell curve, and here's to where Christians are and
here's where Islam is. And that's what he is saying and maybe he's right, but the problem is, a lot of
people here want us to go all the way back. That's not right. It's like you're heading towards the
finish line. You should be going in that direction. And that's the problem. Here in America, there's a
stark contrast, we have a lot of feminists who are spending all their time fretting about pronouns,
gender-neutral bathrooms, trigger warnings, perceived cat calls. Ali has slightly more serious
problems. It's caused her impending death. She could be killed for what she believes in. And I've
been wondered if feminists in America would act the way she would act under this kind of threat,
would they have the --
GUTFELD: And courage. I doubt it.
PERINO: She says something similar. In fact, Eric, she says -- she doesn't think it can just come from
government. She thinks that -- she talks about the men who built Silicon Valley social networks that
they need to be involved. She talks about the entertainment capital of Hollywood and where she
writes -- where at least the old hands still remember the era of blacklists. Human rights activists,
feminists, lesbian, bisexual gay and transgender communities and she includes also the ACLU. She's
saying, where are they? They are online math tutor the ones that could actually help protect all of
these people they say they support.
BOLLING: I find her amazingly honest and for what she -- here's the life she has to live. I told you I
bumped into her yesterday, over there. She has security that has to check the restaurant before she
goes there. She has people following her around making sure that everything's OK, because of the
pieces she wrote, yes, her book, but also the piece in The Wall Street Journal on Saturday. I'll say it
again, read that piece. It's one of the best --
GUILFOYLE: And the documentary film.
BOLLING: And the film.
GUILFOYLE: Where her dear friend was murdered.
BOLLING: But she outlined the things that we've said, and it's coming from her. 70 percent of all
deaths that are conflict related are somehow tied to Islam over the last -- I guess five, five or so
years, 70 percent. If we said that they call it Islamophobia -- Islamophobic, can I do chart -- can I use
your chart? --
GUTFELD: Yes, absolutely.
PERINO: It's our graphics department.
BOLLING: And you're 100 percent right, but here's the issue. So if this is all time -- alright, this is all
time, Christianity has about 400 years on Islam. So it's not exactly like Christianity's been around a
really lot --
BOLLING: Much longer time than Islam. Yet, you see how Christianity came out of it, and you see
how Islam --
ROGINSKY: That is 400 years ago. Actually, come out of it. But look, I have a very hard time with
you, you, you, me, you, any of us talking about what's best for Islam. You're right, she's right.
Somebody does need to -- it does need a reformation, I've been also believing that for a very long
time. It needs to come from within. There are plenty of Muslims out there who should lead that
reformation. I have a very hard time believing that Barack Obama who is not a Muslim, don't tweet
me that he is, because he's not.
ROGINSKY: You know, no, I mean, I understand that he's not a Muslim. Despite the many tweets I'm
going to get right now, but Barack Obama -- any of us, none of us has the right to tell them how to
reform their religion.
GUILFOYLE: We're not saying that.
ROGINSKY: But that's what you said.
GUILFOYLE: But no one is suggesting a guidelines and follow these six points on your post-it and.
ROGINSKY: Could be American reform it. You go out there and --
GUILFOYLE: We have to be participatory in the process of understanding, not just militarily, by
creating a social dialogue and understanding, trying to bridge the gap. That's what she's talking
about. Just like we've seen in the past with Catholics, with Protestants and Christianity to do that, to
have this opportunity for growth and to seize it, not turn a blind eye.
PERINO: And she -- she lists several people here who are courageous, moderate Muslims that she is
PERINO: That we should be supporting them in some ways. And I know she's not saying that Eric
Schmidt of Google should lead the charge for a reformation, but that he does have the ability to
support efforts like with the internet, to try to allow people.
PERINO: To have access to the free and open internet.
GUTFELD: It's also refreshing to hear so many people talk positively about an atheist.
PERINO: Yes. She is.
PERINO: There she is. She --
(CROSSTALK) PERINO: Grew up in Africa and Saudi Arabia. She sought asylum in 1992 in the
Netherlands. She went from cleaning factories to winning a seat in the Dutch parliament. I think
she's a wonderful speaker and an author of several best-selling books and this one is called Heretics.
Alright, ahead, do college campuses also need a reformation? Many students are now being shielded
from ideas that could make them uncomfortable, and this makes Greg, uncomfortable.
PERINO: He explains why, next.
GUTFELD: Last week The New York Times examined "safe spaces" at colleges, which are secluded
spots made for students to keep their feelings from being hurt by different viewpoints.
In these comfort bubbles, people refrain from making jokes for fear of bruising one's delicate
sensibilities. This is not shocking. As the modern era shows, if a fact hurts your feelings, the feelings
In fact, safe spaces are designed to turn emotions into medical conditions. If you can claim that an
idea scars your well-being, fearful administrators will suppress the point of view. Ultimately, that
leads to speakers being disinvited and apologies made about everything.
It's crazy this is happening on campus where the free flow of ideas is the whole idea. But that's
changed. As the lunatics run the asylum, all the walls must now be padded. Free speech be gone,
words are weapons that hurt like hurled rocks. It's the new strategy to suppress competing ideas
and it's working.
But as we criticize, we must police this stuff among ourselves. A demand for lockstep exists in all
places where discomfort from dissent is recast as offense. After all, the only way to strengthen an
argument is to make it vulnerable to criticism. It's called learning.
Demanding consensus is coward's work. And if you can't take the heat or a joke, get out of the
kitchen and go back to college.
All right. Dana, originally, these safe spaces started out with, I would think, a positive goal:
gathering of like-minded people who didn't want to be hassled. They didn't want to be hassled. But
now any kind of ticklish -- they call them ticklish conversation...
GUTFELD: ... can be seen as hassling, anything that might make you upset.
PERINO: Conceivably, the College Republican chapter on any campus could actually be one of those,
PERINO: Where you can find like-minded individuals and you can go hang out.
I actually -- I'm going to blame the parents.
PERINO: Here's why. I don't know if it's allowed to reveal a conversation you overheard from
strangers, but I'm going to do it.
So this weekend when I was traveling, I heard this woman talking to her friend about her daughter
in a sorority.
PERINO: And the sorority had made the daughter upset for some reason.
PERINO: And so the mother said to her friend, "I'm going to call the sorority tomorrow to complain."
I would have been mortified if my mom did that to me.
PERINO: Like if I had a hurt feeling, I had to deal with it myself.
PERINO: I'm blaming the parents.
GUTFELD: Yes, it's get -- I think the writer -- I think her name is Judith Shulevitz, I think that's her
name -- she also said that it's probably the parents.
Eric, she also -- she said that designating a space as safe implies that all others aren't, which then
creates a need to start fixing every space.
BOLLING: Can I also add the fraternity system is a safe space in some schools?
BOLLING: So you have safe spaces. You have trigger warnings now where they literally put
warnings on the top of essays and reading material that some of this material you're about to read
may offend you.
I mean, so there was Baby Boomers. Then there was Generation X; there's Generation Y. This is
literally Generation W, Generation Wussy. We're raise -- our kids, you can't do anything. You can't
talk; you can't read; you can't see it on TV. It's sad. We're going to get smoked by the Chinese. And
GUTFELD: Not literally, though. Not literally.
PERINO: They'll feel better about it. Maybe they will feel better.
GUTFELD: They will not smoke us. I want to add -- there seems to be -- there seems to be something
earnest and correct about this maybe 20, 30 years ago, right? Right? Wasn't there -- it was like
people who had gone through some kind of trauma, you understood that they should maybe be in a
safe spot. But now everybody has trauma, correct?
ROGINSKY: This drives me up the wall. And Dana, you're so right. This has to do with parents, and it
begins when, as a kid, I used to be terrified if a teacher would call my parents. It was, like, the worst
thing you could do. Right?
Now teachers call the parents, and the parents go yell at the teachers for abusing their poor kids
and telling them they may not be doing something right. This begins in, like, kindergarten.
And of course, this article that you alluded to has a great phrase in it called self-infantalization.
ROGINSKY: And it's true. If these kids were 18 -- you know what? By the age of 18, you can't hack
some uncomfortable truths that you may not agree with, then maybe you shouldn't go to college.
Maybe you should live in mommy and daddy's bedroom for the rest of your life in your little cocoon
and not go out in the larger world.
But I hate to break it to these college kids: When they get out of the larger world -- out of college,
the real world is scary, and you may not always like what you hear.
GUTFELD: That's true.
ROGINSKY: You've got to live with it.
GUTFELD: Yes. K.G.
GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I come from the Bay Area.
GUILFOYLE: Quake central. Safe space is under the desk during a drill. I mean, what is happening
in schools? I think I have to start my own university.
GUTFELD: Yes, I would like that.
PERINO: Oh, I'm sure you won't get any takers.
GUILFOYLE: Could you imagine? I think it would be amazing. Just imagine.
PERINO: What would the criteria be to get in?
GUILFOYLE: Intelligent patriotism.
BOLLING: If you're a kid and you watch -- if you listen to any hip-hop, if you listen to any music, if
you watch -- if you play a video game...
BOLLING: ... that would violate everything that they're talking about.
GUTFELD: Exactly. Exactly.
BOLLING: Safe Spaces, the trigger warnings all over the place.
GUTFELD: And then the amazing thing is that some students feel it's OK to violate your space in a
protest. They'll walk into -- you'll be having brunch.
GUTFELD: And they'll come in and yell at you, "Black lives matter," and then they go back to their
ROGINSKY: And let me say this -- let me say this as a liberal, though.
ROGINSKY: Because I know that this is -- you know. Come on. To me being a liberal is all about the
ROGINSKY: You should say what you want to say. You should -- you know, this whole notion of
having to be politically correct about everything, this is not liberalism. In fact, today college
campuses most of these people pushing these probably think of themselves as liberals. They're not.
GUTFELD: Yes. All right. On that note, we must move ahead.
Speaking of children, they're so adorable. Should kids be saddled with endless amounts of
homework? I think so. I think they should just be saddles, period. Ridden into the forest. Next on
(MUSIC: PINK FLOYD, "ANOTHER BRICK IN THE WALL, PART 2": "Hey teacher leave those kids
GUTFELD: That wasn't predictable.
GUILFOYLE: Come on, that was good bump-in music. Don't even.
All right. A lot of kids complain about homework, so can too much actually be bad for them? I can't
believe we're doing this segment. Kids, don't listen.
A recent study found an hour a night is just enough to yield good scores on tests, and any more than
that can be counterproductive.
So what they're trying to tell me, Julie, is that all those thousands of hours that I spent studying,
slaving over my books, I only needed to do an hour? Do you believe that?
ROGINSKY: You know what? The hardest I ever worked ever...
GUILFOYLE: Was at the show.
ROGINSKY: Was at the show, but before that was in high school when I had about 10,000 hours'
worth, it feels like, of homework a week. And it prepared me for life. That's what you have to do. I
mean, I'm all for it.
GUILFOYLE: It's just more about, like, discipline and focus.
ROGINSKY: This comes back to what I was saying before, which is this whole self-infantalization of
making sure that we don't treat our kids - - you know, we have to treat our kids with kid gloves and
make sure they don't work too hard and treat them like babies even in high school. Come on, grow
up. Life is about hard work, or you're not going to get anywhere and you're going to live in your
parents' basement the rest of your life.
BOLLING: So I think it depends on the kid, right? If the kid's self- motivated, he's focused or she's
focused, then maybe you can go a little bit lighter.
I'm all for it. My son does homework every day. We make sure he comes home. As -- if his grades
warrant, he can get some things. Like, he can go out after he finishes homework.
We also do a lot of studying. I study with him. Maybe every kid doesn't need that much. Maybe every
kid doesn't need that much. Maybe some kids can get away with it.
I will tell you, though, if you want them to compete in the job market after college, if you want to go
to a good college and compete, you'd better be prepared to do more than 60 minutes of homework a
day. You're going to get slammed when you go to college.
GUILFOYLE: You know the Chinese aren't doing segments like this.
GUILFOYLE: They're, like, no! That conversation is banned. Do your homework!
BOLLING: Yes, if they're doing the same segment, they're saying five hours a night instead of one.
GUILFOYLE: Fifty a week. All right, Dana, what do you say? Does Josh bring homework?
PERINO: No, he does not. But I do think -- I have a friend who is staying -- she's a grandmother.
She's staying with her 6-year-old and 5-year-old grandkids this week while the parents are on
vacation. She said you could not believe how much homework actually comes home for a first
grader. And she's surprised by that.
So I think maybe this study is talking more about the younger kids than it is people in high school.
I'm not sure, because it says K-12.
But I do think that there's something that, again, parents can do but with kids is that make sure that
they are sleeping enough at night and having good nutrition in the morning so that they can pay
attention during class, because you don't have to study as much after school if you can pay attention
and be really alert during class.
Plus, I think that people are learning now to work smarter, not harder. All the things that we used to
have to memorize, you don't have to memorize anymore, because it's at your fingertips on any sort of
GUILFOYLE: I think memorizing is worth it. I like memorization.
PERINO: I like memorization, too. But they're not going to have to. Like, they're going to be able to
look things up.
GUILFOYLE: I don't know.
PERINO: As Greg says, it ruins all bar fights.
GUILFOYLE: Good, like, mental cognitive exercise to try and focus and memorize and use
techniques for those so you can do things without notes.
Greg, do you have anything to contribute to this segment that's kind towards children?
GUTFELD: As you know -- no, I tutor a lot of teens in my RV. That's one of my four R's: reading,
writing, 'rithmetic and RV.
Homework serves three purposes. It teaches the skill to work unsupervised, to be on your own. Two,
it improves academic achievement. Studies show that. It's important. Three, it gives the parents time
to drink green tea margaritas in the backyard. It's a way...
GUILFOYLE: Are those good?
GUTFELD: They're fantastic.
ROGINSKY: What is that?
GUTFELD: It's a way -- it's margaritas using green tea. We'll get to that later. We're doing a whole
hour on it tonight.
But the point is, homework should be appropriate perhaps for the home. It should involve the family.
If you're going to give out homework assignments, make it a puzzle or an experiment in the kitchen.
That's what we used to do. So it gets the family involved, so they're not off somewhere just
PERINO: What family?
GUTFELD: That's constructive criticism, America. You're welcome.
PERINO: But Greg, what family?
GUTFELD: That's a good point.
PERINO: That's the problem.
GUTFELD: It's not homework; it's the home. There's no home anymore, Dana. No home at all.
PERINO: Increasingly so.
GUTFELD: Yes, it's true.
GUILFOYLE: Kids don't love homework. Ronan tried to leave his in the Dominican Republic in the
customs line, but I caught it.
GUTFELD: By the way, I helped my niece do a video on the dangers of texting while driving. Me. I
work on a TV show. The teacher gave her a "C" plus. So a "C" would have been fine. A "C" would
have been fine, but it's insulting when they add the plus.
GUILFOYLE: Are you going to send a note?
PERINO: Did you call the teacher to complain?
GUTFELD: No, no, I was drunk. They were right, it was "C" plus.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Don't accept tutoring from Greg on Craigslist.
All right. When "The Five" returns, if you're a Tom Hanks fan -- we know you're out there -- you're in
luck. You're about to see the actor relive almost his entire movie career in just minutes. The Hanks-
a-thon is next. You don't want to miss this.
GUILFOYLE: What's this?
ROGINSKY: I love the song.
After more than 35 years in the movie business, actor Tom Hanks has starred in lots of films, from
"Big" to "Castaway" to "Forest Gump." He just reenacted 30 of his most popular ones in under six
minutes on "The Late -- Late Show" -- "Late, Late Show." Excuse me. Here's the abridged version.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HANKS, ACTOR: Mama always said life is like a box of chocolates.
JAMES CORDON, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE, LATE SHOW": You never know what you're going to
(singing) The space goes down, down baby, down by the roller coaster. Sweet, sweet baby...
CORDEN: This one better be worth it!
What does he look like?
HANKS: I think he looks a little bit like Matt Damon!
CORDEN: Look at me. I am the captain now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROGINSKY: The best part is that Eric Bolling thought that was Matt Damon.
BOLLING: First of all, I can't see. It's, like, tiny: "Is that Matt Damon?" That's the new host, the
ROGINSKY: The British guy, and he hosts "The Late, Late Show."
My favorite Tom Hanks movie is "Dragnet," which is so bad that I think it's awesome. It's a cult
classic. I think I'm the only one in the cult.
GUILFOYLE: Cult of one.
ROGINSKY: Cult of one, but I think it's awesome. And Dan Aykroyd was in it, much like "Spies Like
Us," which was also Dan Aykroyd movie, an awesome '80s cult movie.
Greg, I know you have some massively interesting thoughts about Tom Hanks movies.
GUTFELD: My favorite Tom Hanks movie is "Mission: Impossible." He was great in that.
The -- you know what's funny? Dana said in the break that her least favorite Tom Hanks movie is
GUILFOYLE: That's my favorite one.
GUTFELD: It's awesome. You know why? Because he actually grew back.
PERINO: Yes. I've never grown.
GUILFOYLE: You can go to FAO Schwartz and hang out and dance on the piano keys.
PERINO: I could. If I could dance on the piano. Would they let me?
ROGINSKY: Yes, they let people do that.
GUTFELD: "Dance on the piano" is a euphemism. Look it up. Urban Dictionary.
PERINO: Urban -- oh, God. Great.
GUILFOYLE: They have an actual piano key thing on the floor in there.
PERINO: They do. All right. Great.
GUTFELD: I know.
GUILFOYLE: No, it was big.
ROGINSKY: All right.
GUTFELD: It was big.
ROGINSKY: You're adding nothing to this because you already said that.
BOLLING: I would love to be able to relate to the e-mail trail that we had this afternoon about this,
but we're not allowed to.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, what Greg said.
ROGINSKY: Greg had some interesting, interesting thoughts about this.
BOLLING: There was a common denominator among all the Tom Hanks movies. You figure it out,
what they're all missing.
I like "Castaway" and "Apollo 13." For some reason I just like...
ROGINSKY: You can't hedge your bets. You've got to pick one.
PERINO: I'll pick one.
ROGINSKY: Go ahead.
PERINO: Because the one I did not like was "Big." The one I liked very much was "Toy Story 2."
ROGINSKY: Not 1 or 3?
GUTFELD: Because he's tiny there, too.
PERINO: The reason I know -- and the reason I know it is that it's Isabella Sale, who is now 16, is
watching this when she was a baby. And right after 9/11 -- I think she was about 2 years old. I lived
with my friend, Desiree Sale, and Desiree had to work really late because she worked at the White
House. And I was still waiting for my clearance, so I was helpful back at home. And Isabella wanted
to watch "Toy Story 2" over and over again. It didn't matter that we had 25 movies to watch. And I
feel like I could recite that movie by heart. And I really did like it.
GUILFOYLE: Memorable moment.
ROGINSKY: That's great.
GUTFELD: Again, you see the trend. You didn't like "Big," because he was big, you know. And then
you liked "Toy Story" because he's small.
GUTFELD: So there you go.
PERINO: I see. This is like therapy for me.
GUTFELD: Yes, it is. That will be $180.
ROGINSKY: Incredibly -- deep thoughts (ph). We've got to go to "One More Thing," which is up next.
But thank you for your therapy session. That was very interesting. Thank you.
GUTFELD: Yes. I'm quite good at it.
BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing," and Dana's first.
PERINO: OK. Can you imagine a donkey ever doing this? Helping out a truck driver like these
elephants did. They are elephants that were -- they are in a circus, and they were on their way from
New Orleans to Florida -- I'm sorry, to Dallas. And they had a break down with their car so they got
out of their truck and they helped keep it up there just like that. And the police came. They saw that
the elephants were pitching in. And that's how they earn their keep.
BOLLING: Very good.
PERINO: I got that from Chris Vons (ph). If you don't know him, you should.
BOLLING: Greg, you're up. Wow.
GUTFELD: It's time for...
ROGINSKY: Try to follow that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Greg's Facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: You look like Pee Wee Herman.
GUTFELD: Why, thank you.
All right. You know when people say, "I'll be back in a jiffy"? Do you know that jiffy is actually a real
unit of time. Jiffy is equal -- get this -- to the time it takes light to travel 1 centimeter in a vacuum,
which is 33.3564 picoseconds, which is about 100th of a second, about the same
https://www.math.ucdavis.edu/resources/learning/tutors/ amount of time Dana can go without
mentioning her dog.
PERINO: It's a little second. Like you.
GUTFELD: It's a little second. It's a Dana second. It's a jiffy. So a jiffy is real, America. Again, you're
GUILFOYLE: That was really weird. And you Photoshopped your body in that. You look very thin.
BOLLING: All right. They're yelling at me. We've got to move this along, they say.
OK. By the way, hats off to Gavin Haddon on "FOX Friends," who sent this along to me. Check out
this surveillance tape. This is an 84- year-old Army vet, Doug. He's about to be carjacked. Now listen
to Doug tell the story of that moment. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUG JANDEBEUR, DEFENDED HIMSELF AGAINST CARJACKING: I felt him take my billfold out,
and then he headed over for the door where my wife was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And now Doug administered some curbside justice. Roll that V.O. first. Check that out.
See how it's going. Now watch, he administers some curbside justice with his friend, Smith Wesson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANDERBEUR: I pulled out my automatic and was getting ready to ventilate him. Once he saw my
gun, he decided it was time to leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: OK. Now, who caught it?
GUTFELD: Dana's in the background!
BOLLING: Greg got it. I was waiting to see if anyone got it.
PERINO: Wait, wait. Why was...?
BOLLING: Show the picture.
PERINO: Why was I in the background?
BOLLING: Doug was watching "The Five" while doing the interview.
GUILFOYLE: No way.
PERINO: I am so honored right now.
BOLLING: I know. Amazing?
PERINO: That's like seeing a ghost.
BOLLING: All right. All right. K.G.
GUILFOYLE: Too bad he didn't ventilate him. I love that. That would have been the best thing ever.
PERINO: I wasn't sure where that was going.
GUILFOYLE: I know. All right. Well, ten years after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, Staff
Sergeant Michael Maroney of Texas is asking the country's help, your help out there to help him be
reunited with a little girl who left a lasting impression. Because he rescued her during Hurricane
Katrina and reunited her with her family. So now, ten years later, he would love to find her. And they
have the hashtag #FindKatrinaKid. He's asking for everybody's -- oh, yes. Let's listen to what he has
to say. Or skip it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAFF SGT. MICHAEL MARONEY, LOOKING FOR RESCUED GIRL: Little girl was the first to go up
with me. She just wrapped me up in that hug. And, you know, it all disappeared. I wasn't even in
New Orleans. I don't know if I was on the planet at that time. I was just in that hug.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when he does find her...
MARONEY: At that moment I don't think words will capture what I'm feeling or what I want to say.
So I think a hug, a hug will do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Aw. Very cute.
BOLLING: Very, very cool. Jules, quickly.
ROGINSKY: OK. So a guy in Washington state was in an HOV lane, and he was driving with a friend,
a cardboard cutout of the Dos Equis guy, the most interesting guy in the world. And he claimed to
the trooper when he got pulled over that it was his best friend. The trooper tweeted, "I don't always
violate the HOV lane law, but when I do I get $124 ticket."
BOLLING: All right. We have to say good-bye. That's it for us. Bret Baier next.
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