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Hidden card error

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Presented during the Europe East Winter Conference 2017

Published in: Entertainment & Humor
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Hidden card error

  1. 1. Hidden Card Error Aether Revolt Edition by Yuval Tzur based on the seminar by Daniel Kitachewsky and Kevin Desprez
  2. 2. Philosophy Change
  3. 3. Why the Change Was Needed ● The overall severity of penalties has decreased over the years ● Players expect their games to be fixed ● Remedies aim at negating the advantage given by the infraction ● Game Losses should only apply when no other remedy is viable ● Penalties are meant to be educational, not punitive (except DQ)
  4. 4. The Problem ● The extra drawn card is potentially the best one ● A Warning doesn’t negate the advantage gained ● A Warning isn’t a strong enough deterrent ● Neither is returning a random card to the top of the library ● A judge should not be involved in making strategic choices
  5. 5. The Solution ● Removing the best card negates the advantage ● Letting the opponent see the hand is a strong deterrent ● The opponent should make strategic choices ● “Missed Trigger” has a precedence of an opponent making a choice
  6. 6. DEC → HCE New mechanics (e.g. “card sets”) were introduced Other actions (e.g. Scry) rely on hidden information too Hidden information on a legal draw can occur (e.g. Dark Confidant) Hidden information can exist in non-hidden zones (e.g. Morph)
  7. 7. Quiz
  8. 8. Q1: Which of the following is not a card set: 1. Cards in hand 2. The cards in the graveyard 3. The library 4. Cards being looked at while scrying 5. All of the above are card sets
  9. 9. Q1: Which of the following is not a card set: 1. Cards in hand 2. The cards in the graveyard 3. The library 4. Cards being looked at while scrying 5. All of the above are card sets A set is a physically distinct group of cards defined by a game rule or effect. It may correspond to a specific zone, or may only represent a part of a zone.
  10. 10. Q2: AP resolves a Divination that was cast for 2R. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. DEC - GL - No remedy 2. HCE - W - AP reveals her hand and her opponent chooses two cards to be shuffled into the library 3. GRV - W - Perform a simple backup (put two cards at random from the hand on top of the library) 4. GRV - W - Leave the game state as is 5. HCE - W - Perform a simple backup (put two cards at random from the hand on top of the library)
  11. 11. Q2: AP resolves a Divination that was cast for 2R. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. DEC - GL - No remedy 2. HCE - W - AP reveals her hand and her opponent chooses two cards to be shuffled into the library 3. GRV - W - Perform a simple backup (put two cards at random from the hand on top of the library) 4. GRV - W - Leave the game state as is 5. HCE - W - Perform a simple backup (put two cards at random from the hand on top of the library) The root cause of the error was paying the wrong kind of mana, which is a publicly-correctable error, so this is a GRV and a simple backup is in order.
  12. 12. Q3: AP looks at the top 8 cards of his library while resolving a Dig Through Time. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. HCE - W - Finish resolving Dig Through Time, then NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be shuffled into the library 2. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card out of the 8 to be shuffled into the unknown portion of the library 3. LEC - W - Shuffle a random card out of the 8 into the unknown portion of the library 4. HCE - W - Shuffle all 8 cards into the library, then AP looks at the top 7 5. HCE - GL - No remedy
  13. 13. Q3: AP looks at the top 8 cards of his library while resolving a Dig Through Time. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. HCE - W - Finish resolving Dig Through Time, then NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be shuffled into the library 2. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card out of the 8 to be shuffled into the unknown portion of the library 3. LEC - W - Shuffle a random card out of the 8 into the unknown portion of the library 4. HCE - W - Shuffle all 8 cards into the library, then AP looks at the top 7 5. HCE - GL - No remedy The 8 cards being looked at are considered a set of cards. Since the set contains more cards than it's supposed to, the opponent chooses a card and it's considered an excess card. Excess cards are returned to the correct location. If that location is the library, they should be shuffled into the random portion.
  14. 14. Q4: AP points out her Dark Confidant trigger, doesn’t reveal the card then draws another card. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. HCE - W - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 2. HCE - W - AP reveals her hand, NAP chooses a card, and AP loses life equal to its converted mana cost 3. HCE - W - AP reveals her hand and NAP chooses a card to be shuffled into the library 4. HCE - GL - A card whose characteristics needed to be checked was not revealed, so the penalty is upgraded 5. HCE - W - AP reveals her hand and NAP chooses a card to be shuffled into
  15. 15. Q4: AP points out her Dark Confidant trigger, doesn’t reveal the card then draws another card. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. HCE - W - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 2. HCE - W - AP reveals her hand, NAP chooses a card, and AP loses life equal to its converted mana cost 3. HCE - W - AP reveals her hand and NAP chooses a card to be shuffled into the library 4. HCE - GL - A card whose characteristics needed to be checked was not revealed, so the penalty is upgraded 5. HCE - W - AP reveals her hand and NAP chooses a card to be shuffled into There is a card in the hand that should have been revealed. The opponent chooses a card, and it is treated as the unrevealed card. The action is then performed on that card - life is lost equal to that card's converted mana cost.
  16. 16. Q5: AP resolves Sylvan Scrying and puts a card into his hand without revealing it. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. HCE - GL - A card whose characteristics needed to be checked was not revealed, so the penalty is upgraded 2. HCE - W - NAP chooses which card in AP's hand was found, and if it's not a land, it's shuffled into the library 3. GRV - W - If the hand contains a land, leave the game state as is, otherwise investigate for cheating 4. HCE - W - NAP chooses which card in AP's hand was found, and if it's not a land, it's shuffled into the library, then AP searches again 5. HCE - W - NAP chooses which card in AP's hand was found (he must
  17. 17. Q5: AP resolves Sylvan Scrying and puts a card into his hand without revealing it. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. HCE - GL - A card whose characteristics needed to be checked was not revealed, so the penalty is upgraded 2. HCE - W - NAP chooses which card in AP's hand was found, and if it's not a land, it's shuffled into the library 3. GRV - W - If the hand contains a land, leave the game state as is, otherwise investigate for cheating 4. HCE - W - NAP chooses which card in AP's hand was found, and if it's not a land, it's shuffled into the library, then AP searches again 5. HCE - W - NAP chooses which card in AP's hand was found (he must There is a card in the hand that should have been revealed. The opponent chooses a card, and it is treated as the unrevealed card. If the card chosen would not legally be in the set as a result, it's treated as an excess card. Excess cards are returned to the correct location. If that location is the library, they should be shuffled into the random portion. If a card that is not a land was shuffled into the library, the action is repeated and the library is searched for a land.
  18. 18. Q6: AP puts a Lightning Bolt into his hand after it resolves. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. GRV - W - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 2. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be shuffled into the library 3. GRV - W - Put the Lightning Bolt from AP's hand into the graveyard 4. GRV - W - Leave the game state as is 5. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be put into the graveyard
  19. 19. Q6: AP puts a Lightning Bolt into his hand after it resolves. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. GRV - W - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 2. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be shuffled into the library 3. GRV - W - Put the Lightning Bolt from AP's hand into the graveyard 4. GRV - W - Leave the game state as is 5. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be put into the graveyard HCE only applies when a card whose identity is known to only one player is in a hidden set of cards both before and after the error. The stack is not a hidden zone, and therefore this is not a HCE.
  20. 20. Q7: AP taps three Swamps, casts Painful Truths and asks "Draw three?", to which NAP replies by saying “sure”, so AP draws three cards. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. GRV - W to both players - Perform a simple backup (put two cards at random from the hand on top of the library) 2. DEC - GL - No remedy 3. CPV - W to both players - Leave the game state as is and tell the players to be careful next time 4. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from the hand to be shuffled into the library 5. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be put on top of the library
  21. 21. Q7: AP taps three Swamps, casts Painful Truths and asks "Draw three?", to which NAP replies by saying “sure”, so AP draws three cards. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. GRV - W to both players - Perform a simple backup (put two cards at random from the hand on top of the library) 2. DEC - GL - No remedy 3. CPV - W to both players - Leave the game state as is and tell the players to be careful next time 4. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from the hand to be shuffled into the library 5. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be put on top of the library HCE only applies if the infraction was made without the opponent's permission. By saying "sure", the opponent gave his permission, which is why both of the players performed a GRV. The simple backup in this case is to put three cards at random on the top of the library, but since it will be followed by drawing a card, a shortcut can be used. CPV is applicable only when the Communication Policy is violated, which is not the case here.
  22. 22. Q8: AP casts Serum Visions, draws a card, scries 2, leaves both on top and then draws another card. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. GRV - W - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 2. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be put on top of the library 3. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be shuffled into the unknown portion of the library 4. HCE - W - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 5. GRV - W - Shuffle a random card from AP's hand into the unknown portion
  23. 23. Q8: AP casts Serum Visions, draws a card, scries 2, leaves both on top and then draws another card. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. GRV - W - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 2. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be put on top of the library 3. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card from AP’s hand to be shuffled into the unknown portion of the library 4. HCE - W - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 5. GRV - W - Shuffle a random card from AP's hand into the unknown portion Since the hand contains more cards than it's supposed to, the opponent chooses a card and it's considered an excess card. Excess cards are returned to the correct location. If that location is the library and the identity of the card was previously known, the card is returned to the top of the library.
  24. 24. Q9: AP mulligans, keeps her six cards, then scries two. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. LEC - W - Shuffle one of the cards at random into the library 2. MPE - W - AP takes an extra mulligan 3. MPE - W - NAP chooses a card out of the two to be shuffled into the library 4. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card out of the two to be shuffled into the library 5. MPE - W - AP shuffles the library and scries again
  25. 25. Q9: AP mulligans, keeps her six cards, then scries two. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. LEC - W - Shuffle one of the cards at random into the library 2. MPE - W - AP takes an extra mulligan 3. MPE - W - NAP chooses a card out of the two to be shuffled into the library 4. HCE - W - NAP chooses a card out of the two to be shuffled into the library 5. MPE - W - AP shuffles the library and scries again Scrying for more than one card after taking a mulligan is treated as a Hidden Card Error. The two cards being scried are considered a set of cards. Since the set contains more cards than it's supposed to, the opponent chooses a card and it's considered an excess card. Excess cards are returned to the correct location. If that location is the library, they should be shuffled into the random portion.
  26. 26. Q10: AP casts Duress and chooses a card. After discarding, NAP accidentally draws a card. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. GRV - W - NAP shuffles the extra card into the library 2. HCE - W - AP chooses any card from NAP's hand to be shuffled into the library 3. HCE - GL - No remedy 4. GRV - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 5. HCE - W - AP chooses the drawn card from NAP's hand to be shuffled into the library
  27. 27. Q10: AP casts Duress and chooses a card. After discarding, NAP accidentally draws a card. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. GRV - W - NAP shuffles the extra card into the library 2. HCE - W - AP chooses any card from NAP's hand to be shuffled into the library 3. HCE - GL - No remedy 4. GRV - Perform a simple backup (put a card at random from the hand on top of the library) 5. HCE - W - AP chooses the drawn card from NAP's hand to be shuffled into the library Since the hand contains more cards than it's supposed to, the opponent chooses a previously-unknown card and it's considered an excess card. Excess cards are returned to the correct location. If that location is the library, they should be shuffled into the random portion.
  28. 28. Q11: While scrying 2, AP accidentally shuffles the scried cards into his library. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. HCE - No penalty - Losing the cards is enough 2. HCE - W - AP scries the new 2 top cards 3. HCE - W - Leave the game state as is 4. HCE - W - NAP looks at AP's library and chooses two cards as the scried cards 5. HCE - W - Select two cards at random from the library to be the scried cards
  29. 29. Q11: While scrying 2, AP accidentally shuffles the scried cards into his library. What are the infraction, penalty and remedy? 1. HCE - No penalty - Losing the cards is enough 2. HCE - W - AP scries the new 2 top cards 3. HCE - W - Leave the game state as is 4. HCE - W - NAP looks at AP's library and chooses two cards as the scried cards 5. HCE - W - Select two cards at random from the library to be the scried cards If the set of cards that contained the problem no longer exists, there is no remedy to be applied.
  30. 30. Questions?

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