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Voice, choice and participation Participatory approaches to learning with digital technologies Dan Sutch  [email_address]
Overview Introduction to Futurelab Resources and work Projects Changing Contexts Changes to education Participation Social changes Technology changes Possibilities Example projects and provocations Questions
The challenge… “ We need the combined expertise of industry, academia, practitioners and policy to design and implement the tools, the technologies and practices that will revolutionise the way we learn”  Lord Puttnam
 
http://tinyurl.com/FuturelabInnovation www.futurelab.org.uk/resources/documents/handbooks/innovation_handbook.pdf
Literature Reviews Mobile technologies and Learning Learning with digital technologies in museums, science centres and galleries Further Literature Networked Learning Social software http://www.futurelab.org.uk/resources   Projects http://www.futurelab.org.uk/projects
futurelab.org.uk/projects Space Signpost My-E Mobi Missions Ecolibrium Exploratree Astroversity Moovl Enquiring Minds Fizzees
Personalisation Learner Voice Use of new technologies New school infrastructure Linking to informal learning Extended schools Family Learning Lifelong learning Key descriptors of a currently changing educational paradigm:
Key descriptors of a changing educational paradigm Personalisation “ We believe that personalising learning and teaching must play a central role in transforming England’s education service [...] between now and 2020.”  Gilbert Review, 2007  Key policy documents: Children’s Plan (2007); Every Child Matters (2004); Extended Schools (2007); Gilbert Review (2007). Learner Voice “ Parties shall assure to the child who is capable of forming his or her own views the right to express those views freely in all matters affecting the child, the views of the child being given due weight in accordance with the age and maturity of the child.”  Article 12, United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, 1989 Key policy documents: Children’s Plan (2007); Every Child Matters (2004); United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (1989); Young People: Leading Change (2008).  Use of new technologies   “ We aim to put learners, young people – and their parents – in the driving seat, shaping the opportunities open to all learners to fit around their particular needs and preferences. In achieving these goals the effective use of interactive technologies is absolutely crucial.”  Harnessing Technology Strategy, 2005  Key policy documents: Children’s Plan (2007); Gilbert Review (2007); Harnessing Technology Strategy (2005); Harnessing Technology Strategy: Next generation learning (2008); Leitch Review of Skills (2006). New school infrastructure “ spaces will need to use technology – both within and outside classrooms – to enhance learning.”  Gilbert Review, 2007  Key policy documents: 14-19 education and skills (2005); Children’s plan (2007); Extended schools (2007); Gilbert review (2007); BSF website  http://www.partnershipsforschools.org.uk/
Links to informal learning “ We believe that every young person should experience the world beyond the classroom as an essential part of learning and personal development, whatever their age, ability or circumstances.”  Learning Outside the Classroom Manifesto, 2006  Key policy documents: Extended Schools (2007); Learning Outside the Classroom Manifesto (2006); Shaping the Way Ahead (2008); Youth Matters (2006). Extending schools “ We have increasingly strong evidence showing the positive impact of extended services on children’s motivation, behaviour and engagement with learning. This is beginning to yield real improvements in attainment, particularly for the most disadvantaged pupils. And families and local communities are benefiting too, through access to a wider range of opportunities which, in turn, raise aspirations.”  Extended Schools: Building on Experience, 2007  Key policy documents: Aiming High for Young People (2007); Children’s Plan (2007); Every Child Matters (2004); Extended Schools (2007); Youth Matters (2006). Family Learning “ [The new department] will now focus on the significant challenges that remain – raising standards so that more children and young people reach expected levels, lifting more children out of poverty and re-engaging disaffected young people. The new structure will also allow us to respond to new challenges that will affect children and families: demographic and socio-economic change; developing technology; and increasing global competition.”  DCSF website, 2007 Lifelong Learning “ Despite recent progress, the UK has serious social disparities with high levels of child poverty, poor employment rates for the disadvantaged, regional disparities and relatively high income inequality. Improving our skill levels can address all of these problems.”  Leitch Review of Skills, 2006  Key policy documents: Aiming High for Young People (2007); Children’s Plan (2007); Leitch Review of Skills (2006). Key descriptors of a changing educational paradigm
Child Participation in design – Seymour Papert (MIT) 1960s – 1970s Various roles within the design of learning resources ‘ Informant Design’  Mike Scaife  et al . 1997 ( INFORMANT ) Children and teachers as ‘native informants’, able to identify problems from within their separate educational experiences,  not  as equal participants Involves intended user groups at various stages, where and when their expertise can be maximised and where their knowledge is required ‘ Participant Design’ Gro Bjerknes  et al . 1987 ( VOICE ) Democratic processes of design and democratic workplaces; users as peers in product design ‘ everybody has a voice and […] all voices are heard and have an impact’ Cooperative Inquiry’, ‘Co-designing’, ‘Design-centred Learning’  Alison Druin 2002 ( EQUAL role ) Children as equal stakeholders in multi-disciplinary, inter-generational (and long-term) design teams alongside educators, artists, computer scientists http://www.futurelab.org.uk/research/handbooks.htm
Offers first hand experience of needs, requirements and interests of end-users It enables developer to ‘free up’ their ideas and develop more innovative and creative resources It allows developers to be surprised by users and to avoid creating formulaic work It allows developers to avoid costly mistakes and to identify difficulties of design at an early stage It offers the opportunity to create resources that are embedded in teaching strategies and educational contexts Working with users assists validation and informing Process is iterative – ideally from first prototype through to later developments Process informs developer as well as partners   Ownership of change...
Ladder of participation
Look through the 'Ladder of Participation‘ Where would you place you current practice? What are the benefits of working at the different stages? Where would you 'like' to be on the ladder? What activities would support this space?
But avoid this ...  Simpsons: O Brother Where Art Thou
futurelab.org.uk/projects Smart learners, smart places Savannah Mudlarking in Deptford Space Signpost New Toons Pleasurable Cities Fizzees Mobi Missions
PROTOTYPE  PROJECT   F O U N T A I N E E R S
Summary F O U N T A I N E E R S  - A project to co-design and develop an interactive and programmable water [fountain] with a local primary school Learner owned - Learner managed
F O U N T A I N E E R S  -
F O U N T A I N E E R S  -
F O U N T A I N E E R S  -
F O U N T A I N E E R S  -
F O U N T A I N E E R S  -
 
Creating visions of futures education, 2025 and beyond
Why Public and Stakeholder Engagement? ...ensuring the programme is shaped, not only by scientific evidence, but by the  values  and  aspirations  of education’s stakeholders Agency – multiple actors Ability to act in and on the world within multiple possible futures Wider perspectives and insight Informed participation to increase insight and perspectives within BCH Futurelab approach Voice, Participation, co-design/co-development Growing ‘engagement’ agenda Civic participation; active citizenship; democratisation of decision-making; increased representation; ‘mass participation’
Section title goes here Methods of engaging with educational futures
Deliberative Engagement Citizen’s Council; ICT Champions Events; Expert Interviews; Facilitated Million Futures; Facilitated BCH Power League Normative/typical Engagement Million Futures; Citizen’s Panel; Industry workshop; Comments on blog and website; shorter expert interviews Communications/dissemination Website; Blog; e-Newsletter; Posters; Flyers; BETT item; Conference presentations Public and Stakeholder Engagement
millionfutures.org.uk 1539 short entries made from 100 different countries What are your hopes for the future? What do you want your community to be like? What’s your biggest worry for the future? What of today’s education do you want to see in 2025? What skills do you think will be important? What would you not want to see in any future education system? What do you want your country to be like? What should education be like for our grandchildren?
powerleague.org.uk How to educate league – 73 factors, 1452 votes Collaboration or personalised learning? Access to experts or student led learning? What’s education for league – 70 factors, 5387 votes Realising own potential or creating a vibrant labour market? Confidence or creating responsible citizens?
Citizen’s Council Women's Aid Refugee Council Age Concern Religious Education Council for England and Wales Royal National College for the Blind National Youth Agency NIACE UK Youth Age Concern ESSA Tony Blair Faith Foundation Strategic Commissioner, Gloucestershire City Council Connexions Senior representatives from organisations set up to work-for particular groups within society. Current values of/in education Prioritising emerging evidence from the 5 Challenges Future aims of education
 
enquiringminds.org.uk
 
School of Everything http://www.schoolofeverything.com/ Ways of organising
http://ocw.mit.edu
The  Haptic Cow  is a virtual reality simulator developed to train veterinary students to palpate the bovine reproductive tract, to perform fertility examinations and to diagnose pregnancy. The simulator uses haptic (touch feedback) technology, which allows a user to interact with a 3D virtual environment through the sense of touch. When being trained with the Haptic Cow, the student palpates computer generated virtual objects resembling parts of the bovine reproductive tract. The teacher provides instruction and feedback while following the student's actions inside the cow on the computer monitor. Phantom haptic 3D printers Nuffield Design/Young Foresight project QTC is clever stuff.  It comes as thin sheets or a powder. It can be built into textiles or fixed to hard surfaces. In a relaxed state it is a good insulator. When it is stretched, squashed or twisted it becomes a conductor. The harder you stretch, squash or twist it the better it conducts. It’s already been used in power tools and a robot hand.
Videopaper Slideshare Bubbleply www.skrbl.com   www.nextgenteachers.com   YackPack www.diigo.com   Keep Toolkit  Twitter.com/Dannno
www.grupthink.com   www.diigo.com   Keep Toolkit  Del.ici.ous Createascape futurelab.org.uk/projects/why-dont-you
Dan Sutch  [email_address]

More Related Content

Dan Sutch UWE presentation

  • 1. Voice, choice and participation Participatory approaches to learning with digital technologies Dan Sutch [email_address]
  • 2. Overview Introduction to Futurelab Resources and work Projects Changing Contexts Changes to education Participation Social changes Technology changes Possibilities Example projects and provocations Questions
  • 3. The challenge… “ We need the combined expertise of industry, academia, practitioners and policy to design and implement the tools, the technologies and practices that will revolutionise the way we learn” Lord Puttnam
  • 4.  
  • 6. Literature Reviews Mobile technologies and Learning Learning with digital technologies in museums, science centres and galleries Further Literature Networked Learning Social software http://www.futurelab.org.uk/resources Projects http://www.futurelab.org.uk/projects
  • 7. futurelab.org.uk/projects Space Signpost My-E Mobi Missions Ecolibrium Exploratree Astroversity Moovl Enquiring Minds Fizzees
  • 8. Personalisation Learner Voice Use of new technologies New school infrastructure Linking to informal learning Extended schools Family Learning Lifelong learning Key descriptors of a currently changing educational paradigm:
  • 9. Key descriptors of a changing educational paradigm Personalisation “ We believe that personalising learning and teaching must play a central role in transforming England’s education service [...] between now and 2020.” Gilbert Review, 2007  Key policy documents: Children’s Plan (2007); Every Child Matters (2004); Extended Schools (2007); Gilbert Review (2007). Learner Voice “ Parties shall assure to the child who is capable of forming his or her own views the right to express those views freely in all matters affecting the child, the views of the child being given due weight in accordance with the age and maturity of the child.” Article 12, United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, 1989 Key policy documents: Children’s Plan (2007); Every Child Matters (2004); United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (1989); Young People: Leading Change (2008). Use of new technologies   “ We aim to put learners, young people – and their parents – in the driving seat, shaping the opportunities open to all learners to fit around their particular needs and preferences. In achieving these goals the effective use of interactive technologies is absolutely crucial.” Harnessing Technology Strategy, 2005 Key policy documents: Children’s Plan (2007); Gilbert Review (2007); Harnessing Technology Strategy (2005); Harnessing Technology Strategy: Next generation learning (2008); Leitch Review of Skills (2006). New school infrastructure “ spaces will need to use technology – both within and outside classrooms – to enhance learning.” Gilbert Review, 2007 Key policy documents: 14-19 education and skills (2005); Children’s plan (2007); Extended schools (2007); Gilbert review (2007); BSF website http://www.partnershipsforschools.org.uk/
  • 10. Links to informal learning “ We believe that every young person should experience the world beyond the classroom as an essential part of learning and personal development, whatever their age, ability or circumstances.” Learning Outside the Classroom Manifesto, 2006  Key policy documents: Extended Schools (2007); Learning Outside the Classroom Manifesto (2006); Shaping the Way Ahead (2008); Youth Matters (2006). Extending schools “ We have increasingly strong evidence showing the positive impact of extended services on children’s motivation, behaviour and engagement with learning. This is beginning to yield real improvements in attainment, particularly for the most disadvantaged pupils. And families and local communities are benefiting too, through access to a wider range of opportunities which, in turn, raise aspirations.” Extended Schools: Building on Experience, 2007 Key policy documents: Aiming High for Young People (2007); Children’s Plan (2007); Every Child Matters (2004); Extended Schools (2007); Youth Matters (2006). Family Learning “ [The new department] will now focus on the significant challenges that remain – raising standards so that more children and young people reach expected levels, lifting more children out of poverty and re-engaging disaffected young people. The new structure will also allow us to respond to new challenges that will affect children and families: demographic and socio-economic change; developing technology; and increasing global competition.” DCSF website, 2007 Lifelong Learning “ Despite recent progress, the UK has serious social disparities with high levels of child poverty, poor employment rates for the disadvantaged, regional disparities and relatively high income inequality. Improving our skill levels can address all of these problems.” Leitch Review of Skills, 2006  Key policy documents: Aiming High for Young People (2007); Children’s Plan (2007); Leitch Review of Skills (2006). Key descriptors of a changing educational paradigm
  • 11. Child Participation in design – Seymour Papert (MIT) 1960s – 1970s Various roles within the design of learning resources ‘ Informant Design’ Mike Scaife et al . 1997 ( INFORMANT ) Children and teachers as ‘native informants’, able to identify problems from within their separate educational experiences, not as equal participants Involves intended user groups at various stages, where and when their expertise can be maximised and where their knowledge is required ‘ Participant Design’ Gro Bjerknes et al . 1987 ( VOICE ) Democratic processes of design and democratic workplaces; users as peers in product design ‘ everybody has a voice and […] all voices are heard and have an impact’ Cooperative Inquiry’, ‘Co-designing’, ‘Design-centred Learning’ Alison Druin 2002 ( EQUAL role ) Children as equal stakeholders in multi-disciplinary, inter-generational (and long-term) design teams alongside educators, artists, computer scientists http://www.futurelab.org.uk/research/handbooks.htm
  • 12. Offers first hand experience of needs, requirements and interests of end-users It enables developer to ‘free up’ their ideas and develop more innovative and creative resources It allows developers to be surprised by users and to avoid creating formulaic work It allows developers to avoid costly mistakes and to identify difficulties of design at an early stage It offers the opportunity to create resources that are embedded in teaching strategies and educational contexts Working with users assists validation and informing Process is iterative – ideally from first prototype through to later developments Process informs developer as well as partners Ownership of change...
  • 14. Look through the 'Ladder of Participation‘ Where would you place you current practice? What are the benefits of working at the different stages? Where would you 'like' to be on the ladder? What activities would support this space?
  • 15. But avoid this ... Simpsons: O Brother Where Art Thou
  • 16. futurelab.org.uk/projects Smart learners, smart places Savannah Mudlarking in Deptford Space Signpost New Toons Pleasurable Cities Fizzees Mobi Missions
  • 17. PROTOTYPE PROJECT F O U N T A I N E E R S
  • 18. Summary F O U N T A I N E E R S - A project to co-design and develop an interactive and programmable water [fountain] with a local primary school Learner owned - Learner managed
  • 19. F O U N T A I N E E R S -
  • 20. F O U N T A I N E E R S -
  • 21. F O U N T A I N E E R S -
  • 22. F O U N T A I N E E R S -
  • 23. F O U N T A I N E E R S -
  • 24.  
  • 25. Creating visions of futures education, 2025 and beyond
  • 26. Why Public and Stakeholder Engagement? ...ensuring the programme is shaped, not only by scientific evidence, but by the values and aspirations of education’s stakeholders Agency – multiple actors Ability to act in and on the world within multiple possible futures Wider perspectives and insight Informed participation to increase insight and perspectives within BCH Futurelab approach Voice, Participation, co-design/co-development Growing ‘engagement’ agenda Civic participation; active citizenship; democratisation of decision-making; increased representation; ‘mass participation’
  • 27. Section title goes here Methods of engaging with educational futures
  • 28. Deliberative Engagement Citizen’s Council; ICT Champions Events; Expert Interviews; Facilitated Million Futures; Facilitated BCH Power League Normative/typical Engagement Million Futures; Citizen’s Panel; Industry workshop; Comments on blog and website; shorter expert interviews Communications/dissemination Website; Blog; e-Newsletter; Posters; Flyers; BETT item; Conference presentations Public and Stakeholder Engagement
  • 29. millionfutures.org.uk 1539 short entries made from 100 different countries What are your hopes for the future? What do you want your community to be like? What’s your biggest worry for the future? What of today’s education do you want to see in 2025? What skills do you think will be important? What would you not want to see in any future education system? What do you want your country to be like? What should education be like for our grandchildren?
  • 30. powerleague.org.uk How to educate league – 73 factors, 1452 votes Collaboration or personalised learning? Access to experts or student led learning? What’s education for league – 70 factors, 5387 votes Realising own potential or creating a vibrant labour market? Confidence or creating responsible citizens?
  • 31. Citizen’s Council Women's Aid Refugee Council Age Concern Religious Education Council for England and Wales Royal National College for the Blind National Youth Agency NIACE UK Youth Age Concern ESSA Tony Blair Faith Foundation Strategic Commissioner, Gloucestershire City Council Connexions Senior representatives from organisations set up to work-for particular groups within society. Current values of/in education Prioritising emerging evidence from the 5 Challenges Future aims of education
  • 32.  
  • 34.  
  • 35. School of Everything http://www.schoolofeverything.com/ Ways of organising
  • 37. The Haptic Cow is a virtual reality simulator developed to train veterinary students to palpate the bovine reproductive tract, to perform fertility examinations and to diagnose pregnancy. The simulator uses haptic (touch feedback) technology, which allows a user to interact with a 3D virtual environment through the sense of touch. When being trained with the Haptic Cow, the student palpates computer generated virtual objects resembling parts of the bovine reproductive tract. The teacher provides instruction and feedback while following the student's actions inside the cow on the computer monitor. Phantom haptic 3D printers Nuffield Design/Young Foresight project QTC is clever stuff. It comes as thin sheets or a powder. It can be built into textiles or fixed to hard surfaces. In a relaxed state it is a good insulator. When it is stretched, squashed or twisted it becomes a conductor. The harder you stretch, squash or twist it the better it conducts. It’s already been used in power tools and a robot hand.
  • 38. Videopaper Slideshare Bubbleply www.skrbl.com www.nextgenteachers.com YackPack www.diigo.com Keep Toolkit Twitter.com/Dannno
  • 39. www.grupthink.com www.diigo.com Keep Toolkit Del.ici.ous Createascape futurelab.org.uk/projects/why-dont-you
  • 40. Dan Sutch [email_address]

Editor's Notes

  1. Voice, Choice and Education: participatory approaches to learning with digital technologies
  2. 8 year old not-for-profit educational charity based in England Set up to take on the challenge set out by Lord Puttnam.
  3. Bring people together to look at education from multiple viewpoints and with a wide range of expertise
  4. This handbook starts from today and shows ways of developing new practices from where we are today. This is not – we should all start practicing in a particular way, nor is it suggestions for specific activity but some processes to support innovation – processes to support real and meaningful change. Meaningful to you, your students, staff and community. Participation in educational change
  5. Links to useful resources
  6. Bringing them together to build new tools, set within learning contexts. Prototype projects – wide range from …
  7. Mainstream education is moving away from the Victorian/Fordist model of education. It is not easy – educational change is complex – but it is beginning to take shape. The key descriptors laid out in this slide describe a learning context that is about providing services and offerings around the need of the learner; that build on their interests, out of school learning and experiences, and that support not just classroom activities, but family learning and linking with the community. This is supported by well applied technologies that support new learning networks and access to tools, support and expertise where and when the learner requires it.
  8. To help describe these terms, some references have been inserted within the text. Personalisation Building services around the need of the learner – content, support, time, place, tools etc. How can learning experiences be tailored to suit the needs of the learner Learner Voice 2008 Harnessing Technology 2 Strategy advocates a ‘learner driven’ education strategy in the use of ICT; but wider than the use of ICT, this is listening and acting upon the voice of learners in a negotiated curriculum – to lead towards greater personalisation. Use of new technologies Supporting the above goals and appropriately applying technology to realise the sorts of activities highlighted above. 10% of Build Schools for the Future funding is for ICT (about £1450 per pupil) – also investment in primary school rebuilds (Primary Capital Projects) Molenet funding - £10m over 2 years just for mobile technologies within HE (new partnerships and networks etc) New school Infrastructure £14bn spent on renewing, rebuilding schools and their infrastructure. Early builds were criticised for renewing existing practices and traditions, but more recently more focus has been spent upon visioning, of understanding new educational challenges and building for this new approach for the provision of education.
  9. DFES to DSCF – in name and focus Funding for home access broadband (parental choice of device) Becta responsibility for family learning Investigating into the Future of Lifelong Learning (NIACE – National Institute for Adult Continued Education) Particularly change in delivery model of learning. Not using mobile devices as ‘third screen’ to deliver educational content, but enabling the learner to access the data, information and knowledge that they want, when they want. Not teacher controlled content, but learner accessible devices There is still a core entitlement. There are still assessment goals. There is still a role for domain expertise and subject knowledge – but there is more emphasis upon the learner’s rights, expectations and voice.
  10. Different ways of engaging with ‘users’ within developing educational experiences and tools
  11. A whole range of Futurelab projects that have investigated the nature of mobile learning, the opportunities and challenges it presents – set within this new educational paradigm. – what tools and approaches build on this new approach? www.futurelab.org.uk/projects
  12. Important to the programme – some ways separates BCH from other approaches to ‘futures thinking’ Reasons for Public and Stakeholder Engagement: agency; informed; historic FL approach; growing Gov/public agenda Fundamentally – education should not be seen in a vacuum void of public opinion , scientific and technological changes. Public opinion – actually it’s ‘all of education’s stakeholders’ opinions, need to be investigated and brought into the programme. Education system, developed through a co-design process – needs to take account of the views, perspectives of all those who have a purpose for education. Not just learners, but teachers, parents, employers etc etc
  13. Due to the wide range of stakeholders we’re aiming to engage, we’ve a number of different approaches. Again, this is for indicative presentation only and there is movement in activities between these descriptions – and of course using one approach may lead then to another type of engagement. Deliberative engagement: different from other forms of engagement as it aims to give participants time, space and the information necessary to make a considered view. Very different from market research and opinion polls (which seek to get immediate and reactive responses). I’ll talk more about the Citizen’s Council in a moment – but this approach is about facilitated conversations. Normative engagement – more regularly used, expecting some level of understanding or expertise of the participants Finding out how stakeholder groups are already thinking about educational futures Finally wider dissemination and communications, set up to share BCH broadly, and also hoping to lead to other forms of engagement in some cases. Questions shared across the different approaches (questions used in Million Futures were also used with the Citizens Panel and Industry workshops); data/answers were also used across the different approaches (for example orders of concerns raised by parents and older adults were presented to the Citizens Panel, themes emerging from BCH Challenges were used with the Citizens Council)
  14. Online tool presents 6 questions about future/future education – provides access for free text entry. Over the course of BCH used 8 questions – with 1539 responses. Available in forum to use this conference.
  15. Online too that asks users to cast votes in which they choose between two competing ideas or opinions 73 factors needed 2415 votes to use the league positions 70 factors, need 2628 = significance of league position
  16. The use of a Citizen’s Council shares some the benefits of other engagement strategies, such as focus groups and market research, in that it asks key questions and presents specific information to gather “users’” opinions on issues that are important to the research programme.  This becomes particularly important when the research investigates possible behaviours (such as consumer behaviours, choice making, political engagement etc), and possible beliefs and feelings (such as reaction to change).  However, a key distinction between this approach and those of focus groups and market research – a where the link to the legal jury is made – is that the outcomes of the Citizen’s Council will be reflective of the community it represents if the community had all the information necessary in shaping their opinion .   The distinction is that the Citizen’s Council does not reflect ‘simply’ public view (like focus groups and market research), but the reflects the view of the public if they had all the information necessary .   Focus 1: Values of and in education Investigating currently held values of/in education Focus 2: Prioritising emerging themes from Challenges Responding to the themes and ranking/prioritising them in terms of importance and relevance to the Council’s own personal and professional lives The outcome of these discussions will directly inform the February meeting of the EAG and the development of the BCH scenarios Focus 3: Values of and in futures education Investigating currently held values of/in education and interrogating them in light of possible futures
  17. Online ‘Free Skool’ Online brokering – bringing teachers and learners together, But everyone can be a teacher. All skills are valued, not just those that result in a qualification…