Influence Not Influencers

Rand Fishkin
Rand FishkinFounder, CEO, Author at SparkToro
Rand Fishkin | Founder & CEO
Influence…
Not Influencers
Marketing through influence must focus on finding the right customers, in
the right places. Here’s how to make the shift.
Bit.ly/sparkinfluence
Influencer Marketing in 2012
Let’s travel back in time…
Identify Your Target Customer(s)
Physical Therapists
Gym Owners
Personal Trainers
People who Work
Out at Gyms
Discover All the Sources of Influence that Reach
Your Audience
Physical Therapists
Podcasts they
listen to
YouTube
Channels
they watch
Websites
they visit
Twitter accounts
they follow
Instagrammers
they follow
Emails they
subscribe to
Publications
they consume
Events they
attendBlogs they
read
Do Marketing of All Kinds in Those Places
Speak
Be a guest
Pitch stories
Get Featured
Sponsor
Earn Brand Recognition, Traffic, & Sales
Physical Therapists
All the sources of influence that reach physical therapists
Influencer Marketing in 2019
What about today?...
Pay Half-Naked Instagrammers
To Pose With Your Product.
Does It Work?
Sometimes…
Is It the Best Use of Our
Marketing Spend & Effort?
Rarely…
The Consideration Problem:
Google Ads
Should we invest in…
Facebook Ads
Influencer Marketing
Content Marketing
SEO
All our competitors are
doing it!
Start an Influencer
Marketing Campaign
And Influencer Marketing is Crazy Hot Right Now…
Via Google Trends
A Better Way:
Product awareness
among physical
therapists
Business Problem We’re
Trying to Solve:
1) Brand Advertising
Marketing Channels +
Tactics ThatAddress It:
Prioritized List of Experiments & Investments:
Web Search Social Media
Brand Advertising PR
Events Direct Sales
2) Direct Sales
3) Press & PR
4) Social Media
A Better Way:
Product awareness
among physical
therapists
Business Problem We’re
Trying to Solve:
1) Brand Advertising
Marketing Channels +
Tactics ThatAddress It:
Prioritized List of Experiments & Investments:
Web Search Social Media
Brand Advertising PR
Events Direct Sales
2) Direct Sales
3) Press & PR
4) Social Media
Influencer Marketing might be
a useful tactic for these two
What Influencer Marketing
Gets Right
IM Focuses on Behavior > Demographics
Your Target Audience
Behavior Demographics
What they read
What they watch
What they listen to
What they attend
What they engage with
What they pay attention to
How old they are
What gender they are
Where they live
How much they make
How many kids they have
What religion they are
IM Focuses on Behavior > Demographics
Your Target Audience
Behavior Demographics
What they read
What they watch
What they listen to
What they attend
What they engage with
What they pay attention to
How old they are
What gender they are
Where they live
How much they make
How many kids they have
What religion they are
These are vastly more
useful to efficiently reach
specific groups of
people
IM Focuses on Behavior > Demographics
Your Target Audience
Behavior Demographics
What they read
What they watch
What they listen to
What they attend
What they engage with
What they pay attention to
How old they are
What gender they are
Where they live
How much they make
How many kids they have
What religion they are
These are good for
broad targeting of
traditional media
Demographics and Psychographics Are
Useful to Media Buyers (maybe)?
Not so useful to marketers doing content,
search, social, email, PR, etc.
IM Reaches People Through Sources They
Know, Like, & Trust
e.g. Andrew’s an award-
winning mixologist and a
friend. This post isn’t
sponsored, but even if it
were, I’d probably still trust
his opinion.
Though… Paid Sponsorships May Have
Trust Issues Longer Term
Via CrowdFireApp
And Legal Issues Are Starting to
Change the Landscape
Via US FTC
& UK ASA
IM Engages with People Where They’re Already
Engaging
IM Emphasizes Brand Building > Pure Conversions
Via Marketo
What Modern Marketers
Need to Change
A Too-Narrow Definition of “Influencer”
Primarily on Instagram & YouTube
25K+ IG Followers
Influencer√
Primarily a Blogger
7K+ IG Followers
Influencer?
Why Are Instagram & YouTube
the Only Sources of Influence?
Your Target
Audience
Podcasts they
listen to
YouTube
Channels
they watch
Websites
they visit
Twitter accounts
they follow
Instagrammers
they follow
Emails they
subscribe to
Publications
they consume
Events they
attendBlogs they
read
These Are All Sources of Influence!
Journalists they read
A Too-Narrow Focus on Certain Categories
ViaInfluencerDB
Fashion, Beauty, Fitness, Food… That’s It?
ViaInfluencerDB
Targeting on Audience Size > Audience Match
4mm followers
Followed by 19% of profiles
that frequently talk about
“supercars”
What We Should Be Seeking:
Source of Influence
% of My Target Audience
That Engages Here
WebsiteABC.com
The ABC Podcast
ABC YouTube Channel
ABC Conference
@ABCOnTwitter
@ABCOnInstagram
ABC Email Newsletter
38%
31%
27%
25%
25%
22%
19%
Brands & Influencers Ignoring Owned Media
Completely subject to
Instagram’s algo,
engagement rates, and
editorial guidelines
Full ownership and
control of content,
visibility, UX, &
conversion paths
“They’ll take the scraps we give
them and they’ll like it!”
-Facebook
ViaSocialChain
Letting the Platforms Use Us
VS. Using the Platforms
ViaRivalIQ2019
100,000 Instagram Followers < 100 Emails
ViaRivalIQ2019
Social
Follower
Email
Address
Avg
Engagement/
Post or Email
Ability to
Retarget?
Reach on
Other
Platforms
Ability to Get
Audience Data
Direct
Outreach
Possible?
20.81%*
* Via Mailchimp
Yes,Anywhere Yup. Tons. Yes.
1.73%*
Onlyonthat
Network
Nope. Onlywhatthe
networkgivesyou.
No.
* Via RivalIQ
Metrics Accountability
Via TheDrum
“I do campaigns for brands on a weekly basis
and less than half ever come back for metrics;
less than 50% ever want to know what’s
happened. That makes me think it’s PRs playing
a numbers game and once a campaign has
gone no one is really interested.”
Via BusinessInsider
I.E. likes &
comments
If “Branding” and “Awareness” are your
biggest goals… Measure that!
Via Google Trends
Use Other Non-Owned Platforms Strategically
Seeking Brand
Awareness?
Optimize for
interactions
Measure on
Reach+Engagement
Seeking
Revenue?
Optimize for CTR +
Conversion Rate
Measure on
Conversions
Seeking Maximum,
Long-Term Benefit?
Optimize for high-engagement
streaks
Capitalize with
Conversion-Driving Posts
Measure on Comparative
LTV:CAC Ratio
Leverage Other High-
ReachAccounts
Boost with Paid
Promotion
When I have a low engagement post,
my next post has a harder time
reaching a big audience.
When a post gets high engagement,
FB boosts the reach of my next post
(unless it starts to show poor
engagement)
In this way, Facebook (& Twitter, Instagram,
LinkedIn, etc) reward high engagement
streaks and makes accounts w/ low
engagement invisible.
Via Contevo
Rethinking Whether This Is the Best (or Only)
Process for Influencer Marketing
Rethinking Whether This Is the Best (or Only)
Process for Influencer Marketing
Via Contevo
Is paying “influencers” the best way to spread influence?
Should brands own & control the creative?
Is approval of content a net win?
Could other processes yield better results?
to Better Influence Your Target Customers
4 Tactics
Survey Your Audience!
(but be careful how you do it)#1
Want to Know Where to Reach Your Audience? Ask
Them!
Key Questions to Ask:
2: How Do You Currently Solve the Problem Our Product/Service
Addresses?
1: WhoAre You?
(B2C: demographics/psychographics, B2B: professional/behavioral)
3: What Do You Read, Listen To, Watch, Consume,Attend?
4: What Influences Your Purchase Decisions
(in the problem space of our service/product)?
Warning: It’s hard to design
unbiased surveys
e.g. When I editorially chose
these events, I biased survey
takers against ones that didn’t
appear
Struggling to Get Great Answers
(or to get them from the right people)?
1:1 requests are time-consuming, but effective
Reach Out to the Right
Sources of Influence#2
Which of These Should You Choose?
Via eMarketer
Trick Question…
This is the Wrong Way to Think About Influence!
Via eMarketer
The Most FollowedAccount(s) that Match a Keyword Search
Traditional Influencer Marketing Seeks Out:
The Most-ReachableAccount(s) that Match a Keyword Search
OR
But That’s Not Really What We Want…
What You Really Want: People & Publications YourAudience Engages
With Most
Followed by 16% of people
who frequently talk about
“Italian food”
What You Really Want: People & Publications YourAudience Engages
With Most
Small overall following, but reaches
exactly who we want to reach!
Think Beyond Pay-to-Post#3
Don’t get stuck thinking
only about ways to show
up here.
Especially when engagement
may be bigger & cheaper
elsewhere.
8 Pay-to-Post Alternatives
2: Story Pitches (to cover a space, trend, data, or news)
1: Guest Content (editorials, blog posts, native ads)
3: Podcast, Interview, or Video Guest Pitch
4: Day or Week-longAccount Swap/Takeover
5: Research Project or Field Trip Sponsorship
6: Content Partnership Invitation
7: Email Newsletter Inclusion
8: Brand Co-Creations / Partnerships
8 Pay-to-Post Alternatives
2: Story Pitches (to cover a space, trend, data, or news)
1: Guest Content (editorials, blog posts, native ads)
3: Podcast, Interview, or Video Guest Pitch
4: Day or Week-longAccount Swap/Takeover
5: Research Project or Field Trip Sponsorship
6: Content Partnership Invitation
7: Email Newsletter Inclusion
8: Brand Co-Creations / Partnerships
BONUS: Many of these
help with other channels
of influence, upgrading
their ROI
Use a Combination of Direct
& Indirect Outreach#4
But, Rand…
When I ask directly for coverage,
amplification, links, mentions, etc,
I get nowhere 
Direct Works Great Once a RelationshipAlready Exists…
Request for something
comes into my inbox…
Do I KnowThis Person?
Yes!And I
like them.
Never heard of
them.
No, but I know of them or their
company/organization
High
Likelihood of
a Yes
High
Likelihood of
a No
Depends on the ask, their brand, my
history, the relevance, timing, etc.
In Some Cases, Indirect is the Way to Go:
I want these things
Get more people to know, like, and
trust me (and my brand)
Links to my site
Create unique value that stands
out to your audience
Press coverage
SocialAmplification
What can I do that will deliver those?
Focus outreach on these goals first
Getting Responses is Vastly Easier When
You’re Already Known & Liked!
Not Just Influencers.
Influence
Let’s Create
Ready?
Rand Fishkin | Founder & CEO
Thank You!
Bit.ly/sparkinfluence
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Influence Not Influencers

  • 1. Rand Fishkin | Founder & CEO Influence… Not Influencers Marketing through influence must focus on finding the right customers, in the right places. Here’s how to make the shift.
  • 3. Influencer Marketing in 2012 Let’s travel back in time…
  • 4. Identify Your Target Customer(s) Physical Therapists Gym Owners Personal Trainers People who Work Out at Gyms
  • 5. Discover All the Sources of Influence that Reach Your Audience Physical Therapists Podcasts they listen to YouTube Channels they watch Websites they visit Twitter accounts they follow Instagrammers they follow Emails they subscribe to Publications they consume Events they attendBlogs they read
  • 6. Do Marketing of All Kinds in Those Places Speak Be a guest Pitch stories Get Featured Sponsor
  • 7. Earn Brand Recognition, Traffic, & Sales Physical Therapists All the sources of influence that reach physical therapists
  • 8. Influencer Marketing in 2019 What about today?...
  • 9. Pay Half-Naked Instagrammers To Pose With Your Product.
  • 10. Does It Work? Sometimes… Is It the Best Use of Our Marketing Spend & Effort? Rarely…
  • 11. The Consideration Problem: Google Ads Should we invest in… Facebook Ads Influencer Marketing Content Marketing SEO All our competitors are doing it! Start an Influencer Marketing Campaign
  • 12. And Influencer Marketing is Crazy Hot Right Now… Via Google Trends
  • 13. A Better Way: Product awareness among physical therapists Business Problem We’re Trying to Solve: 1) Brand Advertising Marketing Channels + Tactics ThatAddress It: Prioritized List of Experiments & Investments: Web Search Social Media Brand Advertising PR Events Direct Sales 2) Direct Sales 3) Press & PR 4) Social Media
  • 14. A Better Way: Product awareness among physical therapists Business Problem We’re Trying to Solve: 1) Brand Advertising Marketing Channels + Tactics ThatAddress It: Prioritized List of Experiments & Investments: Web Search Social Media Brand Advertising PR Events Direct Sales 2) Direct Sales 3) Press & PR 4) Social Media Influencer Marketing might be a useful tactic for these two
  • 16. IM Focuses on Behavior > Demographics Your Target Audience Behavior Demographics What they read What they watch What they listen to What they attend What they engage with What they pay attention to How old they are What gender they are Where they live How much they make How many kids they have What religion they are
  • 17. IM Focuses on Behavior > Demographics Your Target Audience Behavior Demographics What they read What they watch What they listen to What they attend What they engage with What they pay attention to How old they are What gender they are Where they live How much they make How many kids they have What religion they are These are vastly more useful to efficiently reach specific groups of people
  • 18. IM Focuses on Behavior > Demographics Your Target Audience Behavior Demographics What they read What they watch What they listen to What they attend What they engage with What they pay attention to How old they are What gender they are Where they live How much they make How many kids they have What religion they are These are good for broad targeting of traditional media
  • 19. Demographics and Psychographics Are Useful to Media Buyers (maybe)? Not so useful to marketers doing content, search, social, email, PR, etc.
  • 20. IM Reaches People Through Sources They Know, Like, & Trust e.g. Andrew’s an award- winning mixologist and a friend. This post isn’t sponsored, but even if it were, I’d probably still trust his opinion.
  • 21. Though… Paid Sponsorships May Have Trust Issues Longer Term Via CrowdFireApp
  • 22. And Legal Issues Are Starting to Change the Landscape Via US FTC & UK ASA
  • 23. IM Engages with People Where They’re Already Engaging
  • 24. IM Emphasizes Brand Building > Pure Conversions Via Marketo
  • 26. A Too-Narrow Definition of “Influencer” Primarily on Instagram & YouTube 25K+ IG Followers Influencer√ Primarily a Blogger 7K+ IG Followers Influencer?
  • 27. Why Are Instagram & YouTube the Only Sources of Influence?
  • 28. Your Target Audience Podcasts they listen to YouTube Channels they watch Websites they visit Twitter accounts they follow Instagrammers they follow Emails they subscribe to Publications they consume Events they attendBlogs they read These Are All Sources of Influence! Journalists they read
  • 29. A Too-Narrow Focus on Certain Categories ViaInfluencerDB
  • 30. Fashion, Beauty, Fitness, Food… That’s It? ViaInfluencerDB
  • 31. Targeting on Audience Size > Audience Match 4mm followers Followed by 19% of profiles that frequently talk about “supercars”
  • 32. What We Should Be Seeking: Source of Influence % of My Target Audience That Engages Here WebsiteABC.com The ABC Podcast ABC YouTube Channel ABC Conference @ABCOnTwitter @ABCOnInstagram ABC Email Newsletter 38% 31% 27% 25% 25% 22% 19%
  • 33. Brands & Influencers Ignoring Owned Media Completely subject to Instagram’s algo, engagement rates, and editorial guidelines Full ownership and control of content, visibility, UX, & conversion paths
  • 34. “They’ll take the scraps we give them and they’ll like it!” -Facebook ViaSocialChain
  • 35. Letting the Platforms Use Us VS. Using the Platforms ViaRivalIQ2019
  • 36. 100,000 Instagram Followers < 100 Emails ViaRivalIQ2019
  • 37. Social Follower Email Address Avg Engagement/ Post or Email Ability to Retarget? Reach on Other Platforms Ability to Get Audience Data Direct Outreach Possible? 20.81%* * Via Mailchimp Yes,Anywhere Yup. Tons. Yes. 1.73%* Onlyonthat Network Nope. Onlywhatthe networkgivesyou. No. * Via RivalIQ
  • 38. Metrics Accountability Via TheDrum “I do campaigns for brands on a weekly basis and less than half ever come back for metrics; less than 50% ever want to know what’s happened. That makes me think it’s PRs playing a numbers game and once a campaign has gone no one is really interested.”
  • 40. If “Branding” and “Awareness” are your biggest goals… Measure that! Via Google Trends
  • 41. Use Other Non-Owned Platforms Strategically Seeking Brand Awareness? Optimize for interactions Measure on Reach+Engagement Seeking Revenue? Optimize for CTR + Conversion Rate Measure on Conversions Seeking Maximum, Long-Term Benefit? Optimize for high-engagement streaks Capitalize with Conversion-Driving Posts Measure on Comparative LTV:CAC Ratio Leverage Other High- ReachAccounts Boost with Paid Promotion
  • 42. When I have a low engagement post, my next post has a harder time reaching a big audience.
  • 43. When a post gets high engagement, FB boosts the reach of my next post (unless it starts to show poor engagement)
  • 44. In this way, Facebook (& Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, etc) reward high engagement streaks and makes accounts w/ low engagement invisible.
  • 45. Via Contevo Rethinking Whether This Is the Best (or Only) Process for Influencer Marketing
  • 46. Rethinking Whether This Is the Best (or Only) Process for Influencer Marketing Via Contevo Is paying “influencers” the best way to spread influence? Should brands own & control the creative? Is approval of content a net win? Could other processes yield better results?
  • 47. to Better Influence Your Target Customers 4 Tactics
  • 48. Survey Your Audience! (but be careful how you do it)#1
  • 49. Want to Know Where to Reach Your Audience? Ask Them!
  • 50. Key Questions to Ask: 2: How Do You Currently Solve the Problem Our Product/Service Addresses? 1: WhoAre You? (B2C: demographics/psychographics, B2B: professional/behavioral) 3: What Do You Read, Listen To, Watch, Consume,Attend? 4: What Influences Your Purchase Decisions (in the problem space of our service/product)?
  • 51. Warning: It’s hard to design unbiased surveys e.g. When I editorially chose these events, I biased survey takers against ones that didn’t appear
  • 52. Struggling to Get Great Answers (or to get them from the right people)? 1:1 requests are time-consuming, but effective
  • 53. Reach Out to the Right Sources of Influence#2
  • 54. Which of These Should You Choose? Via eMarketer
  • 55. Trick Question… This is the Wrong Way to Think About Influence! Via eMarketer
  • 56. The Most FollowedAccount(s) that Match a Keyword Search Traditional Influencer Marketing Seeks Out: The Most-ReachableAccount(s) that Match a Keyword Search OR But That’s Not Really What We Want…
  • 57. What You Really Want: People & Publications YourAudience Engages With Most Followed by 16% of people who frequently talk about “Italian food”
  • 58. What You Really Want: People & Publications YourAudience Engages With Most Small overall following, but reaches exactly who we want to reach!
  • 60. Don’t get stuck thinking only about ways to show up here. Especially when engagement may be bigger & cheaper elsewhere.
  • 61. 8 Pay-to-Post Alternatives 2: Story Pitches (to cover a space, trend, data, or news) 1: Guest Content (editorials, blog posts, native ads) 3: Podcast, Interview, or Video Guest Pitch 4: Day or Week-longAccount Swap/Takeover 5: Research Project or Field Trip Sponsorship 6: Content Partnership Invitation 7: Email Newsletter Inclusion 8: Brand Co-Creations / Partnerships
  • 62. 8 Pay-to-Post Alternatives 2: Story Pitches (to cover a space, trend, data, or news) 1: Guest Content (editorials, blog posts, native ads) 3: Podcast, Interview, or Video Guest Pitch 4: Day or Week-longAccount Swap/Takeover 5: Research Project or Field Trip Sponsorship 6: Content Partnership Invitation 7: Email Newsletter Inclusion 8: Brand Co-Creations / Partnerships BONUS: Many of these help with other channels of influence, upgrading their ROI
  • 63. Use a Combination of Direct & Indirect Outreach#4
  • 64. But, Rand… When I ask directly for coverage, amplification, links, mentions, etc, I get nowhere 
  • 65. Direct Works Great Once a RelationshipAlready Exists… Request for something comes into my inbox… Do I KnowThis Person? Yes!And I like them. Never heard of them. No, but I know of them or their company/organization High Likelihood of a Yes High Likelihood of a No Depends on the ask, their brand, my history, the relevance, timing, etc.
  • 66. In Some Cases, Indirect is the Way to Go: I want these things Get more people to know, like, and trust me (and my brand) Links to my site Create unique value that stands out to your audience Press coverage SocialAmplification What can I do that will deliver those? Focus outreach on these goals first
  • 67. Getting Responses is Vastly Easier When You’re Already Known & Liked!
  • 69. Rand Fishkin | Founder & CEO Thank You! Bit.ly/sparkinfluence