Court Case

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Court Case

  1. 1. Key: S- Staro A-Aexnidaral O- Oliver Grey H- The Mad Hatter Staro: Welcome. The only people that can see or post in this forum are Aexnidaral, Staro, Oliver Grey, and Leo the Magnificent (also known as The Mad Hatter). All parties, please identify yourselves here so I know your mask worked correctly. Then we will begin the proceedings. Aexnidaral : Aexnidaral, Current Senior Magistrate of The Kodiak Republic. I believe the Judicial Code requires all parties to swear an Oath. Oliver Grey: Oliver Grey, counsel for the defence... I believe there's an issue with permissions, my client can't see this forum, and can't post anywhere else. Staro: Hmmm..give me a moment. Aexnidaral : QUOTE (The Legal Code) I, [WITNESS] Swear (or Affirm) to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, without any reservations or doubt in my mind, that what I am saying is accurate and honest. Oliver Grey: Unless I am also being asked to testify, I see no reason for me to swear that oath. To my knowledge, I'm only here to ensure the questions are fair and reasonable. A: That is for The Mad Hatter. C: Okay, Leo allowed me to log into his account to see what he sees. I did, and he can definitely see this forum. Maybe he clicked somewhere wrong, but it is definitely working. I'm letting him know now.
  2. 2. C: Okay, so I had masked Leo_the_Magnificent, his other account. He was trying to log in using The Mad Hatter account. I masked that one and he should be here soon. M: I, The Mad Hatter, also known as Leo The Magnificent, Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, without any reservations or doubt in my mind, that what I am saying is accurate and honest. O: Alright, lets see these questions. C: Okay Mr. Hatter. First question. Why do you believe we should have compassion and let you back in to The Kodiak Republic? H: I believe that decision is up to you, and it isn't up to me to decide; for, what ever it is, it is your choice. Now, that isn't saying I do not have a desire to come back to Kodiak and be amongst the friendly, and flamboyant, citizens, and their respective government officials, that I have come so much to admire, such as: Mordor, Dhaka, Graz, Nedi, Rykk, even you, Magistrate Caffeine Lawyers. I honestly miss the people of Kodiak, for if it were not for the friends we all make in social networking sights such as Kodiak, then what other point is there to them? I don't believe there is any point other than that. I am a not the same Mad Hatter I was those six months ago, and I am honestly sorry for any harm or damage I have, or might have, caused. I did not realize the damage that I was causing to everyone on Nation States. C:(I have to leave right now, so I'll ask this and continue my questions tomorrow. Seymour may ask some as well.) How can we be sure you will not spam any regions again? Can you promise right now that you will not spam other regions in the manner you did before? H: You have my honor that I will not spam any other regions ever again, and if I do, you may ban me, and my IP, from Kodiak's Forum, and Banject me from The Kodiak Republic on NS. Also, I will not bother you guys ever again if that scenario ever happens. O: I'm also off for the night, or at least for awhile, so can we adjourn until tomorrow? Or you can post your questions as you think of them and I'll review them when I see them.
  3. 3. C: Yep, that's basically how it'll work. Whenever I can get online, I'll post one. Hatter, there have been allegations you were and are involved in multiple terrorist organizations. What do you say to these allegations, are they true, and if so, do you plan to remain in these organizations? O: Objection, I believe the Magistrate is asking my client to incriminate himself in a matter for which he has not been tried. On an indirectly related note, it's odd to be objecting to a Magistrate/Judge who is asking a question. Obviously your system is the system we're using, but it's very odd for the Magistrates to play the role of both Prosecutor/Interrogator and Magistrate. Sorry for the sidebar, but I'm seeing things I've never seen before. A: Fine; Staro, you may call me as a witness if you would like. I know those organizations exist, I know who was in them, and we may call them for their testimonies as well. O: If I could offer an alternative, why not posit the question in the hypothetical, thus allowing my client to avoid incriminating himself but to answer the question. If you wish to bring my client to trial on other charges, I would ask that you do so publically, so he can seek counsel and meet his accusers before a public tribunal. A: My colleague asked a question, and we will receive the most truthful answers possible. O: QUOTE Members may not be compelled to testify against themselves From your very own bill of rights. Now, either this is a informationally-based proceedings, in which I will not permit my client to incriminate himself, or this is a trial and should happen in public.
  4. 4. Which is it? A: Let me make this clear again; I did not call for him to answer. I said that we will receive the most truthful answers possible, and that still holds true. I have yet to ask him to incriminate himself. It is my belief the the ConstitutionLegal Code(etc) allows for us to call upon witnesses. This is not the trial, this is questioning. If you want one, go ahead and make one. I am saying that I know of the existence of these groups, as I was in one. I also am saying, that they are continuing to create more and more organizations seem to follow the models of the past ones. To the knowledge I have been given, from Leo himself; the GBI Porn Spam was orchestrated by Anarchy which was lead by none other than Leo himself. Those are the facts I know, and those are the facts the court knows. O: Allow me to make myself very clear, in this initial questioning you (as a whole, I'm aware your fellow magistrate asked the question) are asking my client to admit under oath to a crime he has not been tried for. This is the very essence of self-incrimination and testifying against oneself. I will not allow this question to stand as it is written. C: Mr. Grey- The point of the question is not to get him to incriminate himself so we can charge him with another crime. The point is to see if he really is honest about whether he has given up spamming or not. As for questioning whether the magistrates should ask the questions, that's how it's going to work. You were fine with it before. O: I was merely remarking on how odd it felt to object to a judge who was asking a question, not intending to cast negativity on these proceedings. As for the question, regardless of your intent, you are still asking my client to incriminate himself. I would personally rephrase the question as thus: quot;Mr Hatter, there have been allegations you were and are involved in multiple terrorist organizations. What do you say to these allegations, and if they were true, would you renounce membership in these organizations and denounce their activities?quot;
  5. 5. This question asks a hypothetical that allows you to get to the heart of the matter without having my client incriminate himself. A: Mr. Hatter, there have been allegations you were and are involved in multiple terrorist organizations, ranging from Anarchy to The Enclave. What do you say to these allegations? O: By all means, Leo, answer the question. M: I was not the leader of Anarchy, for Neo was the leader of that organization. As for the Enclave, it was a bottom up organization, and I was never really the leader of anyone, but the Enclave is dead now, and has been dead for roughly three months. Now, I am sorry for the actions I've committed, but since your parting from me caused me various emotional problems, I could not think straight, but I believe the purpose of this is to acknowledge my past transgressions, which I am sorry for*, and forgive me my transgressions based on the fact that I am not the same fool as I once was. Now, I believe to claim TNR a terrorist organization is an absurd notion, Mr. Magistrate, for we are trying to establish a government through democratic means, currently have established two embassies in two foreign nations, and abolish Roms quot;Second Reich.quot; If TNR were a terrorist organization, then why would we seek allies through means which appear to be the behavior of an existing government? TNR does not plan to do anything but behave as a government. Though, regretfully so, I told you these things in confidence.... *If I wasn't sorry, and did not care about what I did in the past, then why would I go to all this trouble? A: But you were the leading member of Emily, were you not? H: Emily was a tounge-in-cheek code name for the group anarchy, so no I was not. Though, these organizations do not run in the traditional sense........ A: I was given membership to such organization, and you claimed to be the leader of it. If not the de jure leader, then the de facto quot;figureheadquot; as you gave other members their assignments. When did these organizations disband? And, Anarchy was the organization who organized the GB&I Porn Spam, along with the attack on TBoB's forum (Which I was blamed for), correct? M: lol You were never a member of the organization, perhaps the forum - for a brief moment. This is on the basis that in the given organization, all members found were free speech was limited, and/or there existed tyranny, and they posted links to the forum, and we all went down the list of regions to be attacked. One could say that the organization was disbanded after the
  6. 6. mass amount of posting spam on TNI, TBOB, and GB&I; for, the state of the region was chaotic, and we needed to focus on The New Revolution. And, no, I don't consider myself the leader of the region given the examples on how regions were spammed. We never intended to destroy regions, but to be the pesky little teenager who spray paints all over the side of a building. Now, do I find these acts to be counter-productive, and immature? Of course, and I am sorry for those transgressions that I have committed. The one reason why I loved Kodiak when I came to this region is because they offered me a second chance, and I blew it when I took that one persons challenge, and I am sorry........ I only want to be let in to have the ability to post and talk to this regions members that I have come to love and enjoy. If I truly didn't care about you guys, then I would've left and never came back M: QUOTE (The Mad Hatter @ May 19 2009, 02:50 PM) lol You were never a member of the organization, perhaps the forum - for a brief moment. This is on the basis that in the given organization, all members found were free speech was limited, and/or there existed tyranny, and they posted links to the forum, and we all went down the list of regions to be attacked. One could say that the organization was disbanded after the mass amount of posting spam on TNI, TBOB, and GB&I; for, the state of the region was chaotic, and we needed to focus on The New Revolution. And, no, I don't consider myself the leader of the region given the examples on how regions were spammed. We never intended to destroy regions, but to be the pesky little teenager who spray paints all over the side of a building. Now, do I find these acts to be counter-productive, and immature? Of course, and I am sorry for those transgressions that I have committed. The one reason why I loved Kodiak when I came to this region is because they offered me a second chance, and I blew it when I took that one persons challenge, and I am sorry........ I only want to be let in to have the ability to post and talk to this regions members that I have come to love and enjoy. If I truly didn't care about you guys, then I would've left and never came back Pardon me, The True Revolution.* A: You're not here to kiss ass and try to win sympathy by saying you're sorry, Hatter. When talking to me a month or so ago, you not only claimed that The Enclave would attack Kodiak, but you promised me they would and challenged me on that. Why did you claim this? M: I am not trying to
  7. 7. QUOTE (Aexnidaral) kiss ass . I am honestly sorry for my actions, and I do not know what more you want from me ..... The Enclave was originally meant to be a enhanced museum for TNR/TTR. And, no, we were not planning on attacking anyone, but it happened as a spur of the moment when wequot;schooledquot; - posted mass amounts of infomation about evolution, military technology, and a wide variety of other things. We were never going to attack Kodiak, to my knowledge, because it would've been too hard. And, yes, I lied to you to keep up the silly image of The Enclave. A: The only thing I am asking of you, Mr. Hatter is that you stop being redundant on that issue. We know you are sorry, that does not answer our questions. Why would you commit, or allow for such vicious crimes to be committed (GB&I Porn SpamTBoB)? M: I never attacked TBOB, but I did attack GB&I. As for the reason why, I believe they were too stuck up, too full of themselves, and didn't allow free speech there -like I enjoyed in TTR. Honestly, I don't know why I did it, but I did it. I believe I was just getting out of a long period of depression, and started to realize that my views, were not correct. And I how could I allow or disallow the actions of others? I know you are probably sick of hearing this, but I wish I never committed such acts, because Staro would've still been there, and perhaps we could have survived, even though you had plans on destroying the region, as you told me yourself; for, we survived Woolcott's attempt of grabbing power.... A: What exactly happened during the GB&I Spam war? M: Could you be more specific? A: Reiterate what things not only you did, but what happened in the spam wars. What was posted, the consequences, etc. M: A group called anarchy attack a lot of regions, and some of those members didn't realize their proxies were faulty. Of course the battle cry of the TNR commune was posted which helped the attacked regions to link the spammers to TTR and the TNR commune. I am not sure what happened over
  8. 8. at the Commune, but a man that went by the name of Bilrow started to ask questions and talked with Staro who then linked us to be the attackers, which we were. Staro left shortly after then you varied - I believe. Bilrow, who was not satisfied with our government then declared a war on us which was to be called The Spam-Porn War (which is listed in GIRO). Neo then started to post grotesque, and horrible (even he believed so), satire stories about Bilrow. Then a few random people started to show up telling us to attack GB&I. Then you tried to scare us by saying that TBOB was going to attack TTR -which I took the bate to see where it would take me. Then that so-called war faded away. You then tried to merge us with AWP, Neo wouldn't accept it. Then Graz came in, then most of us moved in TKR. Oh yes, what was posted in GB&I was porn, hence the name The Spam-Porn War. And, yes I am believe I was a fool by posting such things, and I never posted that stuff ever again. A: So, you do realize that you are 18 and by posting Pornography on a forum that 13 year olds have access to is not only unethical by Kodiak's standards, but Illegal; correct? M: I believe I was 17 at that time, but I don't remember when it took place. Though, I fail to see what that has to do about allowing me back in TKR, unless you are trying with all in your power to make me look worse. I think it is already known what has happened, why it has happened, and how it has happened. I am not here to prove what I did in the past was correct, rather, that I am basically a different person. A: This happened shortly before I joined TTR, which would have still made you 18, because you are going on 19 now. I am not trying to make you look worse, I am simply getting the facts out. Why are you trying to rebuild TNR, and what role do you play in this rebuilding? M: Well, out of the blue, Romulius comes marching in with neo-nazis thus making himself the WA Delegate and quot;The Fuhrerquot; of the Second Reich. I am hoping that the liberalization of the government with break that Reich, along with Neo becoming the new WA delegate. And most of us, including Yarsni - the current controller of TNR's founder nation -, want TNR back, just because we miss the past. Since we have no established government yet, I am playing the role of Ambassador to other regions, along with being a member of the convention, until a government has been selected by popular vote. Personally, I don't want a Nazi meme haunting TNR..
  9. 9. M: QUOTE (The Mad Hatter @ May 19 2009, 06:19 PM) Well, out of the blue, Romulius comes marching in with neo-nazis thus making himself the WA Delegate and quot;The Fuhrerquot; of the Second Reich. I am hoping that the liberalization of the government with break that Reich, along with Neo becoming the new WA delegate. And most of us, including Yarsni - the current controller of TNR's founder nation -, want TNR back, just because we miss the past. Since we have no established government yet, I am playing the role of Ambassador to other regions, along with being a member of the convention, until a government has been selected by popular vote. Personally, I don't want a Nazi meme haunting TNR.. I invite you to look around. http://s1.zetaboards.com/The_New_Revolution/index/ C: Sorry I haven't been on all day. But it seems Aexnidaral has been asking plenty. He's told me he has some more questions, so I'll sit back and observe. My questions were pretty much answered. H: QUOTE (Aexnidaral @ May 19 2009, 06:09 PM) This happened shortly before I joined TTR, which would have still made you 18, because you are going on 19 now. I am not trying to make you look worse, I am simply getting the facts out. Why are you trying to rebuild TNR, and what role do you play in this rebuilding? Though, now that I think about it, it would be unethical for any person of any age to commit such an act, would it not? A: And Illegal, Mr. Hatter. M: I think we've already established that.
  10. 10. A: I believe we have also already established that you were banned. If you are allowed back into TKR, and if again violate our law, what do you propose we do? M: QUOTE (The Mad Hatter @ May 18 2009, 08:19 PM) You have my honor that I will not spam any other regions ever again, and if I do, you may ban me, and my IP, from Kodiak's Forum, and Banject me from The Kodiak Republic on NS. Also, I will not bother you guys ever again if that scenario ever happens. I've already stated that, Magistrate Aexnidaral. C: Well I've heard all that I need to. Aexnidaral? A: I believe so, but give me 24 more hours to acquire more questions. And I would like to be able to speak with you on AIM, Staro. C: Okay, I have to sign off now but I may be able to be online for a little bit tonight (Depends how quick I finish my studying). Send me an e-mail (business-law@live.com) if it's important. A: I shall be on until about 9 PM tonight, and I shall get back on around 3 PM tomorrow. I would like to talk to you via AIM or MSN rather then E-mail, though. M: As I can tell, by the methods used by Seymour posting on the announcements, I was already allowed in here after those facts, and I was banned from here not from that posting, but from posting the words f-you multiple times on another forum. I have not committed those acts again, nor will I. Real A: Regardless of either which-way you go with this, Hatter. What happen happened, and you can not change that. And next time when you're calling me unethical, please don't block me. M: QUOTE ( MSN logs) Session Start: Friday, May 22, 2009 * Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magnificent♥ ☯³ (reno_fan@hotmail.com) * Aexnidaral (seymour2012@hotmail.com) (11:25 PM) Aexnidaral: Your case should be decided soon, if Staro ever logs on.
  11. 11. My internet died last night, so that's why nothing's happened. (11:25 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: Ah (11:28 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: I am shocked at the people coming back to TNR (11:32 PM) Aexnidaral: Can you read citizen's announcements in TKR? (11:32 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: As the mad hatter or? (11:32 PM) Aexnidaral: Anything. (11:32 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: Yeah (11:33 PM) Aexnidaral: Ok. (11:34 PM) Aexnidaral: Just wondering, thanks. (11:34 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: I figured (11:35 PM) Aexnidaral: Hm? (11:35 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: I assume my IP is going to be banned in Old England too? (11:36 PM) Aexnidaral: I have administration powers, but that would be up to our LegislatureJudiciary. (11:37 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: You and I both know that I am not going to post stuff like that again (11:37 PM) Aexnidaral: I can not talk about the case to you. (11:37 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: OooOOooo (11:37 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: But you can talk about it to others? (11:37 PM) Aexnidaral: To whom? (11:38 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: Oh, I don't know, like most of kodiak (11:38 PM) Aexnidaral: As staro has done. (11:38 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: Now, does that make it right? (11:39 PM) Aexnidaral: It does not make it illegal or unethical. (11:39 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: The latter yes (11:39 PM) Aexnidaral: Nay. (11:39 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: Yep (11:39 PM) Aexnidaral: No. (11:39 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: Why not? (11:40 PM) Aexnidaral: Why would it be? (11:40 PM) Aexnidaral: Whatever, we'll finish this later. (11:41 PM) Aexnidaral: I must take my leave, my sincerest apologies. (11:41 PM) Aexnidaral is now Offline (11:41 PM) Ⓐ³ ♠Leo The Magn: Blow me (11:41 PM) Aexnidaral has been blocked

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