Drawing extra cards

1. DRAWING EXTRA
CARDS
German Speaking Judge Meeting
October 24-25, 2015
By Juergen Wierz

2. INHALT
Einleitung
Wie war es? Was ist neu?
Einzelheiten
Beispiele
Diskussion

3. EINLEITUNG
Schon immer unglücklich
Hidden information
Strafe unproportional
Verschiedene
Lösungsversuche
Nicht praktikabel

4. EINLEITUNG
Keine ingame-fixes
Keine Strafe mit
unvorhersehbarem Einfluss
Keine strategischen ingame
Judge Entscheidungen
Inkonstant!

5. WIE WAR ES?
GAME PLAY ERROR — DEC
Definition:
A player illegally puts one or more cards into his or her hand
and, at the moment before he or she began the instruction or
action that put a card in his or her hand, no other Game Rule
Violation or Communication Policy Violation had been
committed, and the error was not the result of resolving
objects on the stack in an incorrect order.
If the player received confirmation from his or her opponent
before drawing the card (including confirming the number of
cards when greater than one), the infraction is not Drawing
Extra Cards.
Additionally, it is Drawing Extra Cards if a player has exess
cards in their hand that he or she cannot account for.
Penalty: Game Loss

6. WIE WAR ES?
GAME PLAY ERROR — DEC
Definition:
A player illegally puts one or more cards into his or her hand
and, at the moment before he or she began the instruction or
action that put a card in his or her hand, no other Game Rule
Violation or Communication Policy Violation had been
committed, and the error was not the result of resolving objects
on the stack in an incorrect order.
If the player received confirmation from his or her opponent
before drawing the card (including confirming the number of
cards when greater than one), the infraction is not Drawing
Extra Cards.
Additionally, it is Drawing Extra Cards if a player has exess
cards in their hand that he or she cannot account for.
Penalty: Game Loss

7. WIE WAR ES?
GAME PLAY ERROR — DEC
Philosophy:
Though this error is easy to commit accidentally, the potential
for it to be overlooked by opponents mandates a higher level
of penalty.
If the identity of the card was known to all players before being
placed into the hand, or was placed into an empty hand, and
the card can be returned to the correct zone with minimal
disruption, do so and downgrade the penalty to a warning
Penalty: Game Loss

8. WIE WAR ES?
Harte Strafe
DEC und GRV / CPV getrennt
DEC =/= L@eC
Möglicher Downgrade

9. KERN VON DEC?
Ungeordnete Zone
Nicht einsehbar für Gegner
Zusätzliche Karte nicht
unterscheidbar
Kein echter Fix möglich

10. KERN VON DEC?
Lösung?
Kein Fix sondern
Abschwächung
Ziel: sichere Vereitelung des
Vorteils!
Kein Game Loss

11. WIE IST ES JETZT?
GAME PLAY ERROR — DEC
Definition:
A player does any of the following:
• Puts one or more cards into his or her hand illegally
• Fails to verify specific characteristics of a card with his or her
opponent as required by a spell or ability before putting it into his
or her hand
• Has excess cards in his or her hand that cannot be accounted for
If a prior Game Rule Violation or Communication Policy Violation
directly led to drawing the extra cards, it is treated as Drawing
Extra Cards.
If a player is instructed to look at a set of cards on top of his or her
library in order to perform further actions on them and they look
at too many cards, the infraction is Drawing Extra Cards, but any
remedy is applied to that set of cards. This does not apply to a
dexterity error where the additional card is clearly separate from
the ones being looked at.
Penalty: Warning

12. WIE IST ES JETZT?
Alles was Karten zieht jetzt
DEC
Beinhaltet auch angeschaute
Karten
“look at“ und “scry N“

13. WIE IST ES JETZT?
Warum DEC infraction?
Ungeordnete, nicht
unterscheidbare Karten: wie
Handkarten
Vorsicht bei runter gestoßenen
Karten (L@eC)

14. WIE IST ES JETZT?
GAME PLAY ERROR — DEC
Philosophy:
Though this error is easy to commit accidentally, the disruption
caused by moving a card into a hidden zone mandates a
higher level of scrutiny, including a remedy that minimizes the
benefit that may be realized from the error.
Penalty: Warning

15. WIE IST ES JETZT?
Philosophie Veränderung?
Nicht mehr hohe Strafe
Negierung des Vorteils
Spieler spielen lassen

16. WIE IST ES JETZT?
Neue Strafe immer sanfter als
die alte
Judge keine strategische
Entscheidung
Judge = unparteiisch

17. WIE IST ES JETZT?
GAME PLAY ERROR — DEC
Additional Remedy: (Teil 1)
If the identity of the card(s) was known to all players before
being placed into the hand, or was placed into an empty hand,
and can be put in the correct location with minimal disruption,
do so.
If the cards were drawn as part of the legal resolution of an
illegally played instruction, due to a Communication Policy
Violation, or were as the result of resolving objects on the
stack or multiple-instruction effects in an incorrect order, a
backup may be considered or the game state left as-is.
If the player confirmed the card draw with his or her opponent
before drawing, a backup may be considered or the game
state left as-is.
Penalty: Warning

18. WIE IST ES JETZT?
GAME PLAY ERROR — DEC
Additional Remedy: (Teil 2)
If the situation isn’t covered by the previous three paragraphs,
the player reveals his or her hand and the opponent selects a
number of cards equal to the excess. Those cards are
shuffled into the random portion of the deck.
A simple backup may be used if there have been additional parts
of the instruction performed since the illegal card draw, such
as discarding or returning card to the top of the library. Once
this remedy has been applied, the player does not repeat the
instruction (if any) that caused extra cards to be drawn.
Penalty: Warning

19. EINZELHEITEN
 If the identity of the card(s) was known to all players before
being placed into the hand, or was placed into an empty hand,
and can be put in the correct location with minimal disruption,
do so.
So wie früher, do so
Trotzdem Warning

20. EINZELHEITEN
 If the cards were drawn as part of the legal resolution of an
illegally played instruction, due to a Communication Policy
Violation, or were as the result of resolving objects on the
stack or multiple-instruction effects in an incorrect order, a
backup may be considered or the game state left as-is.
Kein Gegnerpick!
Backup oder so lassen
Trotzdem Warning

21. EINZELHEITEN
 If the player confirmed the card draw with his or her opponent
before drawing, a backup may be considered or the game
state left as-is.
Kein Gegnerpick!
Backup oder so lassen
Trotzdem Warning

22. EINZELHEITEN
If the situation isn’t covered by the previous three paragraphs, the
player reveals his or her hand and the opponent selects a
number of cards equal to the excess. Those cards are shuffled
into the random portion of the deck.
A simple backup may be used if there have been additional parts of
the instruction performed since the illegal card draw, such as
discarding or returning card to the top of the library. Once this
remedy has been applied, the player does not repeat the
instruction (if any) that caused extra cards to be drawn.
Großteil aller Situation
Immer erst wenn die
anderen 3 ausgeschlossen

23. EINZELHEITEN
Normale Lösung
In random Teil mischen
Handkarten aufschreiben
ok (kurz)

24. EINZELHEITEN
Eventuell simpler (!) backup
Rückgängig bis zum draw
Dann Gegnerwahl
Dann Rest nochmals
ausführen
Draw nicht wiederholen

25. EIN PAAR BEISPIELE
Freiwillige vor!

26. UPS
5 KARTEN ANGESCHAUT?
 If a player is instructed
to perform an action to
a set of cards on the
top of his or her library
and adds too many
cards to that set, the
infraction is Drawing
Extra Cards, but any
remedy is applied to
that set of cards.

27. UPS
5 KARTEN ANGESCHAUT?
Lösung?
Gegner wählt
eine der 5
Karten
Dann normales
resolven
Auch bei scry N

28. +1
KARTE EINFACH GENOMMEN?
 Fails to verify specific
characteristics of a
card with his or her
opponent as required
by a spell or ability
before putting it into his
or her hand.

29. +1
KARTE EINFACH GENOMMEN?
Lösung?
Gegner wählt
eine Handkarte
Keine
Wiederholung

30. JACE NACH KAMPF NOCHMAL?
2. AKTIVIERUNG
 If the cards were drawn
as part of the legal
resolution of an illegally
played instruction…

31. JACE NACH KAMPF NOCHMAL?
2. AKTIVIERUNG
Lösung?
Enweder Backup
oder so lassen
Auch bei
falschem Mana!

32. SUPER LOOTER?
DRAW 2, THEN DISCARD 1
 If the situation isn’t covered by the
previous three paragraphs, the
player reveals his or her hand and
the opponent selects a number of
cards equal to the excess. Those
cards are shuffled into the random
portion of the deck.
A simple backup may be used if
there have been additional parts of
the instruction performed since the
illegal card draw, such as
discarding or returning card to the
top of the library. Once this remedy
has been applied, the player does
not repeat the instruction (if any)
that caused extra cards to be
drawn.

33. SUPER LOOTER?
DRAW 2, THEN DISCARD 1
Lösung?
Backup zuerst
Gegner wählt
und shuffle
Dann discard
wiederholen

34. ERST GESUCHT,
DANN GEZOGEN?
 If the cards were drawn
[…] as the result of
resolving objects on
the stack or multiple-
instruction effects in an
incorrect order…

35. ERST GESUCHT,
DANN GEZOGEN?
Lösung?
Enweder Backup
oder so lassen

36. HANDKARTEN VERMISCHT
Kein DEC
Aber ich bin auf
5 Leben?
Tja, das war‘s!

37. DAS WAR‘S!
Vielen Dank für die
Aufmerksamkeit!
Fragen? Kommentare?
Anregungen?

38. BONUS: DOMRI NOCHMAL
ZWEITE AKTIVIERUNG
 If the identity of the card(s) was
known to all players before
being placed into the hand, or
was placed into an empty
hand, and can be put in the
correct location with minimal
disruption, do so.
Oder?
 If the cards were drawn as part
of the legal resolution of an
illegally played instruction […]
a backup may be considered or
the game state left as-is.