ROI of Social Media


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This is a transcription of a Business901 podcast with Guy Powell on measuring Social Media.

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ROI of Social Media

  1. 1. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing Guest was Guy Powell Related Podcast: Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  2. 2. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Over the last 20 years Guy R. Powell, based in Atlanta, GA, USA, has done just that in senior level sales & marketing across the globe both on the client and consulting sides. As part of his current consulting activities he has trained and/or presented his findings and methods to thousands of marketers all across the globe. All of the concepts found in this book have been honed and improved through his consulting and training activities to make sure they can be specificallyapplied to just about any company, regardless of size, industry,category, target customers or country.His company, DemandROMI, ( is basedon helping marketers and business executives to take thesecritical concepts and implement them within his clientorganizations. His consulting career began ATKearney deliveringstrategic and tactical solutions to help companies fuel andmaintain extraordinary growth. While at ATKearney he worked ona variety of wide ranging projects for both mid-tier and Global100 companies in Europe, providing strategic assessments,business re-alignments and turn-arounds.Guy’s website:’s Books include:ROI of Social Media: How to Improve the Return on Your SocialMarketing InvestmentMarketing Calculator: Measuring and Managing Return onMarketing InvestmentReturn on Marketing Investment Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  3. 3. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe Dager: Welcome, everyone. This is Joe Dager, the host ofthe Business 901 Podcast. With me today is Guy R. Powell, theauthor of "The Marketing Calculator" and a new book "The ROI ofSocial Media." Guy, Id like to welcome you and could you giveme an introduction of yourself and your companies?Guy Robert Powell: Sure, Joe. And thanks for having metoday. Its always great to talk about marketing and marketingeffectiveness and certainly the side of things in terms of LeanMarketing. I guess throughout this recent book, and even"Marketing Calculator" and "The Return on Marketing Investment”book, going way back, all of them had to do with how you couldcertainly improve your marketing effectiveness. But anyway, I amauthor of two books: "The Return on Marketing Investment" andthen "Marketing Calculator." And then this recent book I have twocoauthors, which really helped to speed and improve the deliveryof how to measure effectiveness in social media and be able toquickly improve, and learn, and experiment and do to really driveyour social media.But in addition to my writing, I also have two companies. One ofthem is called DemandROMI, which is a marketing/consultingcompany to help major brands improve their positions in themarketplace based on marketing analytics and ROI and whetherits for traditional media or social media. And then ProRelevantMarketing Solutions is a company that owns a proprietarysoftware application that we use to support our consultingservices.Joe: Ive been a long-time fan of yours. Ive had "The MarketingCalculator," for a long time. I think I got it when it first came out.I was very interested in interviewing you because I saw you weregoing to put something together to measure ROI on Social Mediamarketing. You had always put marketing measurement in simpleterms to me. I didnt need Minitab. I didnt need all thesecalculations and everything. You built a common sense approach Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  4. 4. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsto it. So I was real interested and when I picked up the book, itdidnt have a lot of calculations in it and I was kind of surprised.But it was a very common sense approach to how to look atsocial media marketing.Guy: Yeah, thank you. I think what "The ROI of Social Media"book really did was to look at how to develop a measurementframework. A lot of folks have been defining ROI as return oninfluence, return on -- I dont know -- a whole bunch of differentthings. And in reality, those are all important to measure thetactical side of social media effectiveness and social marketingeffectiveness. But in reality, what we really want to do is we wantto have a tactical and a strategic tool and mechanism for us to beable to measure how effective were doing as it relates torevenue, profit, and brand and market share.So we put together this book, which has a very important conceptin there called the media engagement framework. I think thatwas one of the components that really was an aha moment interms of how we look at, or how we need to look at, social mediawhen it relates to measuring effectiveness.Joe: I have to agree with you, because that was my ahamoment of the book when I looked at that because, lets face it,theres all kinds of tools out there and theres all kinds of datathat I can use for social media marketing and Im getting soldthis download, try this, this subscription over here, and thissubscription here, but its just baffling on how you tie it together.And then what do you do with it?Guy: Well, thats right. And one of the things that you probablyalso saw in "Marketing Calculator" was the return on marketinginvestment continuum, which kind of looks at how you can growfrom doing simple metrics to more complex metrics. And a lot ofthe tools that are on the market today are providing great value,but were now I think moving quickly from getting into the simple Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  5. 5. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsmetrics that are very much more tactical oriented to getting intothe more strategic metrics, which then include how social mediafits in to the grander scheme of marketing as it relates to not onlythe different channels that are available in social media, but alsothe different channels that are available in traditional media.Joe: I think its important how you tie the two together. WhatIve seen is theres a lot of marketing people in very influentialpositions that really dont understand social media marketing. Didyou find that somewhat to be true?Guy: Oh, absolutely. But I think thats changing and I thinkpeople now realize that social media is here and its here to stayand it offers an incredible value not only for marketing, but tosupport certain operations with the company, within thecompany, and externally to the company. But theyre definitelynow looking at it and saying, "Well, we kind of missed the boat10 years ago when the Internet started and were not going to dothe same thing with social media." So theyre jumping in, theyredoing the right thinking as theyre moving forward. Theyrelooking at what needs to be done to really be effective in socialmedia.I think the maturation process now is moving a lot faster than itdid 10 years ago as the Internet started to come of age.Joe: So you think theyre jumping into it the right way, the goodcompanies?Guy: Yes, absolutely. I think they are using certainly anexperimental approach to get out there and make mistakes fast,so to speak, which I love the way... I heard a talk from one of theGoogle vice presidents and he said, "Measure very well all thatyou do, but try stuff, make mistakes fast, learn from them andgrow very, very quickly." I think thats what people are doing insocial media is that they are experimenting and theyre learning a Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  6. 6. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemslot. Actually one of the things that Ive realized here over the lastsix months is that one of the reasons why social media, themanagement of social media, is kind of separated from traditionalmedia is that with traditional media its very expensive if youmake a mistake. Not only is it expensive for the company, but itsexpensive for your career. If you have a bad commercial on TV,you could really ruin your career. You cant experiment there.Whereas, with social media if you have a good entrepreneurrunning your social media, theyre going to try stuff and learn andmake mistakes and then find successes, make mistakes and thenbang, bang, bang theyre all of a sudden one of the leaders intheir category as it relates to their social media presence.That requirement, that entrepreneurial requirement, is verydifferent from the entrepreneurialism that youd find in traditionalmedia. Thats why I think the social media is very well separatedfrom the traditional media because you have to think differentlyand you have to be willing to make mistakes, quickly fix themand use that as something you can use to grow and learn andmove forward with very quickly.Joe: That really takes a different mindset though for anindividual, though, doesnt it? If theyve got 10, 15, 20 years inmarketing?Guy: Oh, absolutely. I think some of the marketers are able tomake that mindset switch. Some of them arent. Certainly I thinkthe digital side of the equation of the marketing house is probablymore able to use that approach. They certainly are used to thetons and tons of data that youd see so theyve been able toreally I think come out of the digital side of the house and growvery quickly there with that experimental mindset, thatentrepreneurial mindset that you really need in social media. Ithink it is more difficult to come out of the traditional side ofthings to move into social media. Thatll change, though. Probably Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  7. 7. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsin two or three years when social media is more mature andtheres not like the wild, wild west thats out there right nowwhere it kind of settles down and the growth rates arent quite asstrong as they are.Then all of a sudden itll be a more mature... Youll need to bemaking a lot of big experiments and there wont be a lot of bigmistakes because you already will have learned what really worksand what doesnt work.Joe: Well, one of the things that I struggle with is I see thismarketing technologist out here. Hes lack of a better word, ageek. Hes been a blogger, hes this and hes that and everything.And all at once, hes the marketing expert. But a lot of themarent firmly rooted in marketing principles. Theyre the guy thatknows something that you dont know. Is that guy to listen onhow to go after social media?Guy: Well, I see that, too. In some respects and 10 years agothat was what happened with digital media, and in somerespects, that has happened here as well. One of the things, ifyou think about a new media channel coming of age, were beingactually I guess presented to marketers. The knowledge of howthat media channel works is maybe more important than knowingexactly how a brand differentiates itself in the marketplace. But ifyoure able to combine both of those in terms of reallyunderstanding marketing and brand strategy and have this reallydeep understanding of how to use Twitter or YouTube orFacebook, then you can really deliver some amazing results. Buteven if you just have a reasonable marketing understanding, buta deep understanding of a particular media channel I think youcan be very, very successful.Joe: Well, one of the things these guys jump out and say -- andthey were saying it I think more so a year ago or two years agowas that you cant measure social media. You just have to accept Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  8. 8. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthat fact that its going to work and its there. You need toparticipate in it. Is that still true?Guy: Well, that, first of all, was never true. Ive been doingsocial media measurement projects probably for the last five orsix years prior to Facebook, prior to YouTube when proprietarysocial communities were out there. Weve been measuring theeffectiveness of social media for a long time and I think thereason why people say that you cant measure is because theythemselves dont understand how to do measurement. But havingbeen in marketing measurement now for quite a while -- longerthan Id probably like to admit to here -- what that means to meis you can measure everything.One of the things that I do when I do a presentation is I usuallysay... I make a very bold statement and say, "I can measure themarketing effectiveness of everything that you do, everything! Idont care what it is. I can measure the marketing effectivenessof everything that you do." And people look at me. They go, "Howcan you do that?" and I say, "Well, I didnt tell you how much itwas going to cost." So one of the issues here is not necessarilywhether you can measure everything is whether you can measurethe right things at a reasonable cost.So the issue is how much do you want to invest in measurementand then the analysis, the follow on analysis, to determine howeffective you were in order to really be able to get a good feel forhow successful your media investments are and of course yoursocial media marketing investments are.Joe: I think thats interesting that you say that because there isa cost to all that.Guy: Oh, absolutely. Cost is the problem. If I want to, I couldsend out one tweet and I could spend a billion dollars trying tomeasure how effective it is, right? So obviously that would be an Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  9. 9. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsimproper use of a companys resources. The issue then is how doI measure the effectiveness of a Twitter presence and mytweeting for a reasonable cost? We need to make sacrifices. Weneed to trade off accuracy potentially for the amount of moneyyoure going to invest in it.Joe: So all these free tools out there that you can get and youcan measure yourself and you can see how well your blogs doingor what Klout you have, lets say, these are good things to belooking at, but you still have to interpret them correctly. Is thatthe tough part?Guy: Well, thats definitely a tough part. Certainly the free toolsprovide some good input. You know, I like Klout and a couple ofthe other free tools. Certainly then the paid-for tools like Radian6or Sysomos or Alterian, they all provide some really, really gooddata. Now whats necessary is for us to structure it properly. Tostructure that data properly to really see, what are we trying toaccomplish. Always have the goal in mind as were trying to setour measurement infrastructure. Then secondly, make sure thatwere measuring the right things, not just the easy things. Someof those free tools are measuring the easy things as opposed tothe right things.So then it means for the smart marketer to think about, "Well,what are the right things?" Develop a media engagementframework, which is kind of the heart and soul of our book, anduse that as a way to start to think about, "Well, what is it that Ireally need to measure here be successful?"Then putting that measurement framework in place and thenstart to measure those things and realizing that measurement isnot free. Its not free from, theres usually a... Even if theres afree tool out there, I still have to spend time at it. So theresalways a time and a money issue in terms of how I get data andhow accurately I get that data and how timely I get that data. Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  10. 10. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: Thats what I always consider this triangle of time, moneyand skill. Theyre always going to equal out, somehow.Guy: Yeah, exactly those. Yeah thats...Joe: If the delivery is cheap, you may find out that you have tospend a lot of time and a lot of skill to get people to read it.I think thats interesting you say that because the mediaengagement framework, it really has to be tied to your customerssomehow and how they react, or maybe not your customers, butthe market?Guy: Absolutely. And just for those that havent read my bookyet -- and I hope youll actually, after this, go out and getit -- the media engagement framework has three dimensions toit. Certainly the customer, the consumer has to be at the heart ofthat. The consumer makes purchase decisions, so we need tounderstand how they make purchase decisions. But in socialmedia we have two other major players in the marketplace thatdeliver messages about my brand or about my competitors brandor about the category or about the distribution channel. Thosetwo other players are certainly influencers and then the last oneis individuals, individuals that may or may not be a consumer.If we understand how our marketing affects the individuals andhow they will engage with us and become a member or subscribeto our site or what have you, then we can understand how tobetter implement our marketing tactics to drive engagement anddrive value for us as those individuals potentially becomeconsumers.Then on the other side when were thinking about influencers, wealso need to understand, "Well, how do our marketing activitiesinfluence the influencers? How can we get them to write about usevery day always positively to as many people in the world as wecan?" Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  11. 11. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsWhen in reality we know well never get that level of engagementfrom or endorsement, rather, from our influencers. But realizingthat what we want to do is we want to get as much endorsementout of the right influencers as possible, given the fact that thoseendorsers or those influencers are going to be also influencing forother brands and other competitors and other things in themarketplace.Joe: I think that is one of the Aha moments in your book to me.I had a couple of them in it, actually. Is that when you startsegmenting and looking at those segments, I think you really dida nice job of explaining that and made me think of thats trulyhow you start segmenting an audience, anymore. Its notnecessarily a target market that you can go after. Its more aboutthe touch points and who youre touching with what message.Guy: Absolutely and, you know, its interesting: the reason whywe called it a media engagement framework and not a socialmedia engagement framework is because it also applies totraditional media. So in traditional media I may have a sponsorwith Tiger Woods, who happens to be an endorser. So thatperson, Tiger, would have the same requirements as we look athow he endorses our brand versus the Accenture brand versusthe Nike brand and how we can get more endorsement share outof him as a sponsored endorser.When we look at the media engagement framework, it really is allabout how we look at media in general, whether its traditional orsocial. We built that media engagement framework so that itwould apply to both traditional and social media. Its interesting,your comment as well, a lot of the comments that weve gottento date are that what we talk about in the book is how marketingworks in general. How marketing tactics and strategies work andthen, "Oh, by the way, were applying it to social media." Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  12. 12. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsSo that actually, I think, is how you have to approach socialmedia and traditional media and marketing ROI and then socialmarketing ROI is that they all have to follow the right strategy.You really have to have marketing strategy in mind before orduring the process youre putting in, during the time youreputting your measurement framework in place. If you understandstrategy and if you understand metrics and how those metrics arethere to support the strategy then you realize that they have togo hand-in-hand.Joe: I think the metrics are more important in todays marketingthan they were in the past. Do you agree with that?Guy: Well, thats interesting. I can see cases where you couldagree with that. I can see cases where you disagree with that. Ifyoure looking at just metrics as it relates to social media, theyreimportant. But because social media is just going like crazy, youcan still make mistakes and still not be at optimum and yet beable to do very well. I think thats the case with any new mediaand that was maybe the case with Internet and digital five or 10years ago. But on the other hand, though, I think one of thethings Ive seen especially in the U.S. and Europe where you havemature markets, metrics are the things that are going to give youa strategic advantage. If you can do metrics better than yourcompetitors, if you can do the analytics better than yourcompetitors, you are going to grow faster than them. Andtherefore its a strategic advantage.Theyre important as well in emerging markets, if you think aboutChina. But there, first of all, the data isnt there, on the one hand,at the same level of detail as it might be in the West. So themetrics are still important and you still want them, but themarket is growing so fast that even though youre makingmistakes youre still growing. Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  13. 13. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThat will change. As the Chinese market or the Indian marketkind of matures then itll be more and more about metrics andoperations and marketing as to who will be the winners and whowill be the losers.Joe: I look at marketing from the perspective of gaps, OK. Wehave a target here that we want to reach and heres where wereat today. Usually the biggest problem is getting a measurementfor the beginning, where were at today. Because, you know, a lotof times there isnt a measurement.If you can get that and then see what gap you think are realisticor the optimum gap or what you can close in a short amount oftime, thats how I look at metrics. And I look at them from theperspective that you just about have to do that for any marketingtoday to really get a sense of where to spend your money andhow to prioritize. Does that make sense?Guy: Yeah, absolutely. You are right about in some cases youdont have a good measure of where you are. For example, wererunning a project right now in Vietnam. There we only havecoverage of good data for a certain number of the top cities inVietnam and theres only so much you can do. So you have totake that data and realize that it has some shortcomings to it anddo your best with what you have. Hopefully, provide feedback tothe agency thats providing you the data to be able to say, "Heylisten, we need better data in these three areas. Heres how muchits worth to us, so heres how much were ready to pay for it."Joe: Can a small guy do this? Can a small organization do this?Guy: Well, you know, that is definitely an issue. I will admitbecause of size, larger organizations do have an advantagebecause they do have they have the ability to spend more moneyon data and be able to get value out of that data. Smallerorganizations need to still get and use data properly and invest in Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  14. 14. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsit. Typically that means theyre spending more of their marketingbudget on data, as a percentage, than a larger company might.But if they really, really and truly want to be successful thengetting the right kind of data and the right level of data is acritical component to their success.Joe: I think from a small perspective that a company can usesomething like just their Google Analytics, their Klout scores andto measure to see if their blogging, if their twittering is paying offto them as long as they dont look at it in such a minusculeframework or try to zero it down too far. There are tools outthere that they can do that quite effectively if, as you say, theyreally look at the medium engagement framework, have that on awhiteboard in front of them.Guy: Absolutely. No, I think youre right. Theres no questionthat there is some very good, inexpensive or free tools that youcan use. You know, Google Analytics or Google Alerts. GoogleAlerts is free. But if you want to go to the next level then youhave to pay for a Radian6. Yet, Google Alerts, for a smallcompany, is a very good tool to understand whats going onconcerning key search terms that are relevant to their company.Joe: When you look at consumer-to-consumer communicationsand you break it down into word of mouth and social media, isthere a difference between lets say, face-to-face word of mouthand online social media put in one then the other?Guy: Well, absolutely. First of all they are definitely different.Social media is the online element of consumer-to-consumercommunications. We kind of define word of mouth as being theface-to-face. Face-to-face takes place every day whether theressocial media out there or not, whether theres online or not.Face-to-face can be driven by advertising, by traditionaladvertising. We talk about Coca-Cola at the cooler or we talk Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  15. 15. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsabout other brands, Starbucks, or whatever it happens to be,face-to-face.What social media does it now allows a couple of things. First ofall, it allows us to have other people see our messages. So, if Iveput out a tweet about Coca-Cola, then other people can seethose, including the brand and including the competitive brands.Secondly, those tweets or those Facebook posts, or those blogposts are all stored. So theyre out there forever and I can nowgo back and look at them for over the past and see, what did GuyPowell say about Coca-Cola over the last two years. So thatsdefinitely the difference between social media and face-to-face.I think, though, face-to-face is probably more effective thansocial media and it probably will, I think the effectiveness ofsocial media will probably start to decline as we continue to addnew friends and what have you to our profiles. Thats becauseface-to-face, theres only so much time that we do, you know,that we have in the day. And when we have a face-to-faceconversation about a brand then were only talking to one or twopeople and that message can be very persuasive both positivelyand negatively about that brand.Whereas with social media and online, I might have 100 fans orfriends today, that Im very close with, and so when I saysomething in social media to those 100 friends, then theyregoing to go, "Oh yeah, Guy said that, so that must mean thatCoca Cola is an important brand."Whereas, a couple years from now, I might have 1,000 friends,and theyre going to say, "Well, How do I know Guy? I dont quiteremember. Where did I meet him? Was it at that trade show?"And yeah, thats an interesting message about Coke, but it stillisnt as effective as me talking face-to-face about how much I likeCoca-Cola, for example. Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  16. 16. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: So youre saying as we get stronger and stronger in socialmedia, and bigger and bigger numbers that were reaching out to,our engagement is going to kind of soften.Guy: I think so, I definitely think so. I think even at the brandlevel, how does a brand, that lets say, Olay has 250,000 fans,how is the engagement now, from a marketing perspective, tothose 250,000 fans that Olay has, how does that change when welook at Coca Cola that has 25 million fans? So from a marketingperspective theres some interesting dynamics in there. I thinkthe overall level of effectiveness will go down, just because now,were now getting to the second tier and the third tier level offans and friends and what have you, and so it has to go down.I were talking in preparation for the call, one of the things that alot of marketers do is they say, "Well, we want to be at sixpercent today, and we want to be at 10 percent tomorrow," insome measure, of lets say in loyalty or what have you. But itmay turn out that that incremental four percent, even thoughweve increased our loyalty by that four percent, the level ofvalue that we get out of that four percent may not be as high asthe level of value that we would get out of the original six.So I think theres always a diminishing return, and I think thatsreally the key concept as it relates to social media as we moveforward in social media engagement and then the value thatsocial media will play here over the next couple years.Joe: So I kind of reflect back to something that you mentionedin your book which was the 90-9-1 rule. And you may want toexplain that a little bit, but is it still a numbers game?Guy: Well, let me explain the 90-9-1 rule. Basically, if we have100 fans, then 90 of them are just going to be there to read orconsume the content that we might put out. About nine of thoseare going to be more active, and they might write a comment, or Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  17. 17. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsa like, or maybe even do a post. And then that one is actuallygoing to be very active and tell their friends and advocate that,"Hey, you need to join this web page because its really cool," or,"You need to join this social media community," rather, "becauseits really cool." And so thats kind of where the 90-9-1 conceptcomes from. And thats probably how it is. Today, weve seennumbers that, OK, so maybe its 80, 15, and five or somethinglike that.But the second thing, though, is, and I think this gets to yourquestion, how do you move people from the 90 group over to thenine group? Or how do you move people from the nine groupover to the one group? Thats where I think theres some veryinteresting marketing opportunities that marketers can nowengage in to drive people down that engagement funnel, which isone of the other concepts in the book.How can we drive people down that engagement funnel to getpeople from the 90, a few of those to be in the nine so that thenine might go to 10, 11, or 12? And then how do we get the ninenow to go down to the one level, the advocating and invitinglevel, so that that might become a 2, 3, or a 4?I think thats where marketing, now at the next level of detail,has an enormous amount of opportunity as they look at socialmedia. Im hoping that the other thing that will happen, becauseFacebook has become such a major player in social media, thatFacebook will start to realize how important this engagementfunnel is, and start providing more detailed statistics throughtheir Facebook Insights on how successful a marketer has been inmoving people down that engagement funnel.Joe: I have to agree with you, because I think that from amarketing standpoint, and from a guy that looks at metrics,Facebook kind of disappoints me. Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  18. 18. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsGuy: Well, I dont know. I mean I think...yes but I think theyvegot bigger fish to fry. Certainly, when you think about the originalpurpose of Facebook, which was to bring friends together. Nowthats changing to bring brands and friends together, then thebrands are going to start making demands on Facebook. I thinkFacebook is already responding to that. The Facebook Insights,and the newly released version, Im sure theyre going to havemore and more stuff thats going to be very, very helpful tomarketers. Offering value for the brands and offering value forthe Facebook fans that they have.Joe: Is this marketing really any different than the basicmarketing we were doing 10 or 15 years ago? Are we just callingit different names and using different tools now? Were still tryingto work everyone down the marketing funnel, arent we?Guy: I couldnt agree more. I could not agree more. Maybe thatshows my age, but when I look at Facebook, and then 10 yearsago at the Internet, its all about marketing as a science, and howyou look at segmenting your consumers and segmenting andunderstanding what motivates different people and consumerbehavior. It happens to be now that we just have a differentmedia channel. It happens to be one where the consumer canactually respond. But in the reality, its the same techniquesbeing applied to a new media channel. Thats why I think thissocial media is going to be so valuable because you can apply allof these techniques. You can do it in a very rich data set so thatyou can easily measure, and monitor and manage whats goingon.Joe: The other thing that Ive noticed in a lot of studies and acouple of surveys that Ive read from different groups is wherethey look at where the customers hang out, or where they getleads from, whats a valuable source to them. You go to theoffline things, as far as trade magazines, and even trade shows,advertising, PR, you go to the webinars, you use all the different Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  19. 19. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsonline tools, and what I noticed about them is that theyre reallyall pretty level. There isnt like one of them that stands out: "Thisis the way I need to do it." The only one that really stands out isreferrals or something like that. But most of them arent that farapart on most of the studies I have seen. That tells me that itsmore about touch points than it is about diving into one thingthat works.Guy: But I think the reason why theyre level is that it has nowmatured to a point where most of the players that are doingwebinars or doing these online events have learned fromeverybody else, so theyre following best practices. Because ofthat, theyve reached kind of a plateau. I think thats also one ofthe things that makes it so difficult to put out a viral video, or aviral campaign. Everyone would like to have a viral campaign assuccessful as the Blendtec "Will It Blend?" video series. But thatused to be easier because people were making up best practicesas they went along, and some people did it faster and better orearlier than others. Now I think, where or what is going to be thenext "Will It Blend?" video that can become the big viral hit thatthey were able to.I think its harder now. I think people have realized, "Hey, thismedia has not necessarily reached the saturation point, butcertainly well along its way of getting there." And so, for a viralvideo to really stand out, or a viral activity to really stand out, Ithink its much, much more difficult.Joe: If you were going to tell someone their next step to do insocial media, whats on the horizon? What should I be doing thisyear to improve my efforts in social media? Could you just giveme a couple things?Guy: Well, I think the big one that really hasnt matured yet, butI think theres enormous opportunity, is social CRM. As we wereputting the book together, it was clear that there wasnt really Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  20. 20. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsmuch out there yet, but the early tentacles were starting to form,and I think over the next year or two, social CRM is a major,major opportunity for marketers. When this concept comes tofruition, I can then tie my known consumer behavior of pastpurchases and past complaints and customer service withmessages that they may have sent out in the social media spaceand be able to now tie those two together and be able to dothings with it.If youre a smart marketer, and know how to play with analyticsand data, then something will be there that well be able to takeadvantage of and use as we look at providing service, ormarketing to folks, or just reaching out to them to improve yourposition in the market.Joe: You kind of have some of that now going on when I openup my Outlook and my email and Ive got a list of the personsparticipating out there in social media.Guy: Absolutely, I think if and Siebel andPeoplesoft and some of the other guys out there, Im sure theyare investing very heavily in social media and social CRM.Joe: Is there anything upcoming that someone can participatewith you in? Do you have any workshops or anything?Guy: Yes. Absolutely, weve got a series of workshops startingon June 27th and 28th were doing a two day social mediastrategy and ROI workshop and we are presenting a lot of theconcepts out of the book, which by the way can be found, and as well as on Amazon and Barnes andNoble and wherever books are sold. So hopefully youll look atthe book, but if you could join us at our workshop coming up,that would be fantastic. We will be doing a series of them, so wewill be coming to cities near you as we put that process in placeover the next six months around the U.S., and even globally. Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  21. 21. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: What is the best way to get a hold of you?Guy: By email: I am also I am also on Twitter @GuyPowell, Imon Facebook at Marketing-Calculator. Were Theres probably 10 other places that youcan find me. If you do a search on Guy Robert Powell andMarketing ROI and ROMI, youll definitely find me coming up tothe top. Oh, by the way, of course, Im on LinkedIn. And actuallywe have two very vibrant groups in LinkedIn that I inviteeverybody to. One of them is called Marketing ROI andEffectiveness, and the other one is called ROI of Social Media.Joe: Well, I would like to thank you very much, Guy. Youvebeen very informative and I appreciate what youve shared witheveryone. I would recommend both of your most recent books. Ihave to admit, I didnt read your first book, which, maybe Ishould?Guy: Thank you very much, Joe. I appreciate it and I appreciatethe recommendations. I love talking about this stuff, and Im surewe could go on for another two or three hours.Joe: Again, thank you. This podcast will be available onBusiness901 blogsite and the Business901 iTunes Store.Guy: Thank you. Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901
  22. 22. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Joseph T. Dager Lean Six Sigma Black Belt Ph: 260-438-0411 Fax: 260-818-2022 Email: Web/Blog: Twitter: @business901 What others say: In the past 20 years, Joe and Ihave collaborated on many difficult issues. Joes ability to combine hisexpertise with "out of the box" thinking is unsurpassed. He has alwaysdelivered quickly, cost effectively and with ingenuity. A brilliant mind that isalways a pleasure to work with." James R.Joe Dager is President of Business901, a progressive company providingdirection in areas such as Lean Marketing, Product Marketing, ProductLaunches and Re-Launches. As a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt,Business901 provides and implements marketing, project and performanceplanning methodologies in small businesses. The simplicity of a singleflexible model will create clarity for your staff and as a result betterexecution. My goal is to allow you spend your time on the need versus theplan.An example of how we may work: Business901 could start with aconsulting style utilizing an individual from your organization or a virtualassistance that is well versed in our principles. We have capabilities toplug virtually any marketing function into your process immediately. Asproficiencies develop, Business901 moves into a coach’s role supporting theprocess as needed. The goal of implementing a system is that the processeswill become a habit and not an event. Business901 Podcast Opportunity Expert Status Connecting Social Media and Traditional Marketing thru Measurement Copyright Business901