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Project and Change Management Simplified


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In a recent podcast, Project and Change Management Simplified, Bob Lewis president of IT Catalysts discussed his specialty project and change management. This is a transcription of the podcast.

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Project and Change Management Simplified

  1. 1. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Project and Change Management Simplified Guest was Bob Lewis Sponsored byRelated Podcast: Project and Change Management Simplified Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  2. 2. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsBob Lewis is the president of IT Catalysts and author of BareBones Project Management: What you can’t not do and BareBones Change Management: What you shouldn’t not do.Since 1996, when he started his “Survival Guide” column inInfoWorld, Bob has been in the forefront of a guerrilla movementin how businesses should design and plan change, and how the ITfunction should relate to the rest of the enterprise. Thismovement rejects the orthodoxy of “running IT as a business”that delivers technology to “internal customers,” replacing it withan integrated view of IT, in which, as a peer with the rest of thebusiness, it actively collaborates in the design, planning, andimplementation of business improvement and transformation.Bob presents workshops on Business Change Management. Thiswill include topics specific to Agile and Lean transition initiatives. They examine the source of organizational resistance to change, describe the seven components of an effective business change management plan, and show how to go beyond a “Managed Transition” to achieve both Evolutionary Change and discontinuous, “fork lift” change. Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  3. 3. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Transcription of PodcastJoe: Welcome, everyone. This is Joe Dager, the host of theBusiness901 podcast. With me today is Bob Lewis. Since 1996,when he started his survival guide column in InfoWorld, Bob hasbeen at the forefront of a guerrilla movement in how businessshould design and plan change, and how the IT function shouldrelate to the rest of the enterprise. Bob is an award-winningauthor of more than 1,000 articles and 10 books. He currentlypublished two weekly columns, "Advice Line," which appears, and "Keep the Joint Running," which is hispersonal weblog e-letter, covering a wide range of issues ofconcern to business and IT leaders. Bob, its a pleasure to haveyou, and tell me, as a fellow writer, I have to know, how do youhave time to do that much writing? Whats your secret?Bob Lewis: My secret? Joe, first, thanks for having me on. Imlooking forward to this. The answer to your question is I give upsome of the basics, like research and thinking. That speeds thingsup a lot. I cant actually answer that question. As far as the time,the basics are, everything has to be on a schedule. I write,"Advice Line" Friday mornings, I write, "Keep the Joint Running"Saturday mornings, and if I dont, I feel guilty. The second secret,to the extent its a secret, is I try really hard to have a list ofadvanced topics, so Im not staring at the keyboard saying, "Gee,I sure wish I had an idea to write about this week." Once I havethat, theres only one more "secret," and I have to say, I dontusually criticize anybody else, because Im way too vulnerable.The one thing I wish everybody who writes on the Internet woulddo would be to write to a predefined word length, because I thinkI probably spend more time keeping "Keep the Joint Running" toexactly 800 words, which is my target length, then I actuallyspend writing it in the first place.I dont know if that answers your question, or if its one thatsounded like it, but its the best answer I have. Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  4. 4. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: Well, you seem to write with a style that says, "Here arethe tools you need. This is how they work," and you leave out alot of fluff, and its more about just getting things done. Have wecomplicated things too much in our lives? Can it be that simple?Bob: I dont know. Maybe Im just too simple-minded. There area few different kinds of books. I have a friend whos theeditor-in-chief at one of the major publishers. Every so often, heand I talk about doing a book together, and he looks at what Iwrite, and he likes it, and he says, "But." What the "but" is, singletopic books seem to be where publishing is going. Theres one bigidea, and you write 800 pages around one big idea, or 400 pages,or whatever. I think most of them, when we get into these, weread the one big idea, and then chapter two is the one big ideaagain, and then chapter three is the same big idea one moretime, and you wonder whats new in each chapter. I dont haveenough patience to write that.The other thing is, and I learned this from my dad, actually, whowrites about direct marketing; I figure if every time I write asentence, if it doesnt either give you something you can use, orgive you a reason to believe the next season that gives yousomething you can use, or the previous sentence, which gave yousomething you can use, then its not a sentence I should bewriting.A lot of what I leave out is things like evidence. I try to makethings that, once I explain the logic, the logic is inescapable.Occasionally, if I actually do know something about the subject,thatll be included, but yeah, I think what you describe here...Ima tools guy. Im a techniques guy.Whether Im writing about leadership, or business change, orproject management, I figure when somebodys buying a book,theyre not looking to be inspired. Theyre not looking to getweepy. Theyre looking for a few things that they can start doing Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  5. 5. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthat will make them better at it than they were when they startedthe book.Joe: I think you make a good point there, because a lot of booksI read, and then its like theyve got to convince me that theywere right for another 50 pages, and Im already convinced Imdone.Bob: Listen, to be fair, a lot of folks who write business booksare academics. They are professors in business schools, and Imnot saying this is an indictment. What these folks do is research,and with actual research, you now have a big pile of evidence,and the whole point is that you have evidence. Its not just,"Heres how it seems to me." I write, "Heres how it seems tome." For better or for worse, Im writing from my experience. Thegood news, it is actual experience out there where things happen.The bad news, experience is a biased sample, so I cant claim anyuniversality. I actually cant really give a lot of claims that whatIm going to talk about is going to work in foreign countries withdramatically different cultures than we have here in the UnitedStates.But within my limitations, Im pretty sure that what Im writingmakes sense.Joe: I like that explanation, because youre right, its an opinion."Its worked for me, and Im sharing it with other people."Bob: Yes, so thats really it. Its what worked for me, and I try todig in at least enough to provide some logic behind it. In most ofthe books that Ive written...Actually, Ill tell you. The nicestcompliments I ever got, Ill give you two, and I usually dont dothis. One was about my leadership book and somebody who readit; I think this is on Amazon somewhere, he said, "Usually, I bringa yellow highlighter to a book, but I found I was highlightingeverything, so I stopped." That told me I succeeded in what I was Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  6. 6. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemstrying to do, which was to write things where every sentence ismeaningful.The other one, this is the better compliment, was somebody said,"Usually, I find this kind of book tremendously annoying, but Iwasnt annoyed by your book at all." You know, if you dontannoy somebody whos usually annoyed, I figure thats a prettygood compliment.Joe: I like that. I like them both. Well, lets talk about one ofyour books here a little bit, and its "Bare Bones ProjectManagement." Can you briefly describe it? Is it a waterfall, agiletype? What is it?Bob: The reason its a 54 page book is when I wrote it, I didntknow about project management to write a 56 page book. I thinkyou know books have to have an even number of pages, becauseeach sheet of paper has a front and a back. What it is, its sort ofwaterfall-ish, because thats easier to explain than agile, butalmost all of it is easily adapted to an agile environment also.What it is a collection of concepts in project management, each ofwhich has to be present, or you really have a dramatic chance offailure. To give you just one example out of many, one of thethings the book will tell you is if you dont have a businesssponsor, and a real business sponsor, not a sponsor in nameonly, not a sponsor who, first the project got approved and theneverybody said, "We need a sponsor. Who would be a goodchoice?"That is not a sponsor. Sponsors have to want the project tosucceed deep in their gut. If you dont have a sponsor, run, hide;get under the desk, duck and cover. Do something to get out ofthis, because without a real sponsor who really wants the projectto succeed, one of three things will happen: Itll fail early; itll faillate, or itll complete, but nobody will use what you produced. Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  7. 7. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThose are really the only possible outcomes if you dont have areal sponsor. So its stuff like this. Its what you absolutely,positively have to do, or youll fail. I wrote it really not forprofessional project managers who know way too much, readthis, and say, "Youve got to be kidding me."I dont have any numbers to prove this. Im pretty sure if you gointo an average company, and you count up all the projects goingon; youll find for every official project thats been sanctioned andgone through the project portfolio committee; you probably havetwo or three unofficial projects sailing in under the radar They arenot being managed by anybody who has any projectmanagement training.Theyre being managed by somebody whos been thrown in frontof the project like a speeding bus by their manager, with theimmortal words, "This will be a great experience for you," whichis management speak for, "Duck."I wrote this book for all the poor schmucks out there who havebeen thrown in front of projects and have no idea what to donext. Its supposed to be a great experience, but actually, its justterrifying as hell, because they have no idea what to do tomanage a project. Because they dont, they and their teams wakeup every day asking the question, "What can we do today tomove the ball forward?" Thats no way to get a project done.Joe: I think you hit upon a couple of points that I really thinkabout right away. Everything is somewhat of a project within thebusiness world. You have projects going on all the time, so youdo need a little experience there. Most of the projects Ive everworked on were fairly short-term duration, and if I took thiselaborate project planning system, and filled out the projectscope, the project charter, everything about the team, and did allthose things, Id put more work in developing the project than Iwould in the project, sometimes. Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  8. 8. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsBob: Youre making a great point. Let me tell you, another bigproblem with the standard project management methodologiesisnt that theyre wrong; its a scaling problem. Most of themscale up just fine. If you want to use them to build a skyscraper,or a nuclear submarine, or a system of orbiting satellites that willbeam electrical power down to earth, theyre great for that. But ifwhat you have is three people and three months that you need tobuild a minor satellite module to hook into your ERP system tohandle billing for a new government agency, they cant scaledown that far. If you look at project management, its about 50percent book smarts and about 50 percent street smarts. A lot oftime, the street smarts arent taught, so when something badhappens, you have no idea what to do next.The other thing is, its a bunch of checklist items, so, "I have tohave a project charter; therefore, I will have one." The way Iteach this in "Bare Bones" is, you have to understand yourproject, and everybody on your team has to understand theproject the same way, because if they dont, your results will beincoherent.Here are some techniques for making sure everybodyunderstands it the same way, and theyre these basic elements ina project charter.Because it makes sense, because any project manager reallydoes understand if they dont know what theyre supposed to bedoing and why it matters; theyre not going to have a team;theyre not going to a result thats useful, so they do the checkliststuff as quickly and as lamely as they can.Joe: I think one of the things that I need to ask you about. Hereis the "Bare Bones," I read the project management, so much thisproject; people think that to manage a project that they can go tothe cloud, or they can use software, and if they follow theprocedure, thats managing a project. Does "Bare Bones" help meout somewhat with that? Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  9. 9. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsBob: Actually, thats a great question. Two things: Years andyears ago, when I was actually employed and had to work for aliving, I was invited to attend a meeting where we werepresented with the companys new project managementstandard. I listened to the whole thing, and it wasnt that it wasbad. Its that it wasnt project management; it was projectadministration. It was all about the tools for keeping track, and itkept track just as well as the project was on-track - track, or if itwas off the rails. The standard worked just fine for administering.Well, if youre managing a project day-to-day, one of the reasonsyou have weekly status meetings, instead of weekly statusupdates, is in a meeting, anybody had who didnt get their taskdone has to face the rest of the team and say, "I didnt get thejob done this week." That creates peer pressure, because thatsan awful thing to have to say in public, so people will work reallyhard to not have that experience twice.The other thing you asked about doing it in the cloud, I guess Illdo a little plug for some friends of mine. I got a call not long after"Bare Bones" came out from a company called Team Dynamics.Thats what Team Dynamics does, project management solutionsin the cloud. They had a client that was interested in theirsolution, but only if they could encapsulate the "Bare Bones"technique in their software.So they contacted me, "Would that be OK?" Im thinking, "Wouldthat be OK? Very nice people, by the way, but theyll be the firstones to tell you; they provide the solution for keeping track,having a great project plan, being able to update it, showingGantt charts and all the rest of it. Thats very nice, but projectmanagement is an intensely human activity.All of the keeping track in the world wont get you beyond theteam member whos not performing. It wouldnt get you beyondtwo team members who could perform separately, but they justcant work together. It wont get you past this point in the Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  10. 10. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsemotional development of a project team that I call "the pit ofultimate despair," when youve been working hard and you seeno progress, and everybody is completely losing motivation andmomentum.None of that is going to be helped by the software. Thererebaby-sittings involved here.Joe: One of the things you point out there, and I think Ivelearned a great deal, is that project management is very littleabout the project. Its more relationship management.Bob: A lot of it is. Inside the team, between team members,between the team and everybody outside, thats a big, big pieceof it. Let me tell you, two of the other biggest pieces, I figure, ifyoure writing a project everybody understands what its for, veryimportant, everybody knows what theyre supposed to be workingon every day and when its due, something really basic like that.If a project manager knows how to handle the situation whensomebody doesnt get their task done. Which isnt saying, "Oh,thats OK, well extend the schedule," but sometimes it is,because sometimes the reason they didnt get their task done isquite legitimate. You cant just ask them to work harder, andmore hours, and pick it up. It is knowing what to do each timebased on the specifics of that situation.If you can do those basic things, your projects will get done,probably. Well, theres one missing piece, which is knowing howto say, "Were done now."Joe: How do you say that? How do you know when a projectsdone?Bob: What they teach in the textbooks is, youve got a scope,and the scope consists of a list of deliverables. When youvecreated all the deliverables, then youre done. What I mentionedbefore, the difference between book smarts and street smarts, Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  11. 11. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthe book smarts version is, when youve created all yourdeliverables, the scopes complete, youre done. I read this... Iwish I could tell you who I read it from, but one of the mostbrilliant things I ever read about project management was, "Yourproject is done when your business sponsor says its done. If yourbusiness sponsor doesnt think its done, you can haul outanything that you want." By the way, this is internal projects.If youre an independent systems integrator, software or servicesfirm, youve contracted a project, you can haul out the contractand say, "Here, this proves were done," and maybe thatll workfor you. But for internal projects, no. Your sponsor says youredone, or you have more work to do, which is, as you pointed out,this is another reason this is a relationship business.Joe: The nuclear submarine, too large of a... Is that too large forme to follow "Bare Bones Project Management?"Bob: Oh, hell, I dont know. Ive never built a nuclearsubmarine. If somebody asked me to, I think my head wouldexplode. When youre talking about software kinds of stuff, whichis my sweet spot, yes, most projects, or at least a lot of them,would benefit a lot by not being one big project. Theres thisstrange thing about human psychology. The way humans thinkabout time is anything longer than six, maybe nine months iseternity. If you have a project that goes beyond six months or so,theres no sense of urgency until you get way too close until theend, and then you dont have enough time, which is, by the way,the fallacy of breaking a project into phases.Breaking a big project into phases is not the same as breaking abig project into a collection of small projects. When you havephases, and Ive seen this happen over, and over, and overagain, the first phase goes along, and everybody says, "ThatsOK. Were doing a more thorough job here, so well make it up inthe next phase." Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  12. 12. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThen the next phase goes along, maybe thats a specificationscreation, and, "Thats OK. The specs are so good; well make it upin construction." The construction goes along, and of course,"Well make it up in testing." But you know; the rule of testing is,you always test. The only question is do you test before, or afteryou put it in production?Instead, you test after it goes in production, and youve got acalamity on your hands. When you break it into...Joe: I have to cut in, and people listening to this podcast haveprobably heard this statement a couple of times. I was just ayoung engineer out on a job site one time, and I had an older guythere, a seasoned veteran of this particular discipline. I wasworking on something that was quite a problem, and he justlooked over at me and he said, "You know, engineering reallydoesnt start until you turn the key."Joe: I looked at him, and I didnt think he knew what he wastalking about, but in a few years, as I matured, I understoodexactly.Bob: Thats right on the money. Anyway, in my long-windedway, the point Im trying to make is, if you break a big projectinto phases, it doesnt really add any sense of urgency, becauseeven if there are phase deadlines through soft deadlines, if youbreak a big project up into a collection of small projects, and theteams disband after each project... Now, you may have overlap,they may reform as another project team, but the project has adeadline, and it ends, and if youre not done by that deadline,youre just not done. Theres a whole different level of urgencyabout it. Theres also a chance to recalibrate when you learnmore in the early phases.Theres also a chance to create more accurate estimates for eachproject than you could for each phase, because you dont have toplan every project in detail at the beginning. So yeah, for a wide Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  13. 13. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsvariety of reasons, especially in information technology, therereally should never be a project with more than seven people thatgoes longer than six months, I would say, ever.Joe: Recently, you wrote, "Bare Bones Change Management."Was that a book for a project that went beyond six months, or isit really change management?Bob: Not at all. Heres why I wrote, "Bare Bones ChangeManagement." One of the things that Ive been on a soapboxabout for way too long is the idea that theres no such thing as anIT project. At least, there shouldnt be. One of the things that Italk to clients about is theyll have...OK, Ill make one up. Youvenever heard this before. Private project, implement SAP, or togive equal time, implement Oracle Financials, or whatever. Theproblem is, theyve named the project after the software, whichmeans that the project is done when the software is installed,configured, meets the specs, and operational. But there is nobusiness benefit to that.In fact, very often, these things are organized as platformreplacements, which means then, on top of everything else, whatyouve done is youve spent a whole lot of money in order to getthe business to run exactly the same way tomorrow that it ranyesterday, and this is ridiculous.So what Ive been recommending for years name the projectafter the business change, and if theres no business change, whyare you doing the project? This would be, "Optimize supplychange management using SAP," "Improve accounting workflowsusing SAP," or whatever. Im not trying to give SAP a plug; Imjust using it as an example.That being the case, Im starting to get some traction around thisidea. One of the things that I think most people know projectmanagement is how you push change into an organization. If allyou do is push change into the organization, the organization will Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  14. 14. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsusually push it right back, for a wide variety of reasons.Somebody once said, "Every company is perfectly organized todeliver the results it actually creates."So you try to get something different to happen, but its perfectlyorganized to deliver the results that it already creates, that makeit tough. Theres this complementary discipline to projectmanagement called business change management. Ive runacross any number of books on this subject, including the very,very popular, but it shouldnt be; Im sure youve run across,"Who Moved My Cheese?"Joe: Sure.Bob: OK. Well, "Who Moved My Cheese?" promotes this idea,change is wonderful, and we should all embrace it. What I wantto know is, who is moving that cheese, and why are they messingwith my head? Random change, whats the point? Oh, by theway, if you know anything about history, there is this war wefought way back when called World War II. You might have heardof it. In World War II, we called the good guys the resistance. Itwas people trying to make change happen in Europe who werethe bad guys. It seemed to me there was room in the literaturefor a book that started with the premise, "Employees dont resistchange because theyre stupid. Employees resist change becausetheyre smart."They understand that most business change has led to layoffs,harder work, invalidation of hard won skills, the need to gothrough a feeling of terrible incompetence while you learn wholenew ways of doing things, often that arent very well-definedwhen you start. Business change is often a very miserableexperience. Of course, employees resist it.They dont just naturally resist change; theyll be resistant tochange naturally. We wouldnt have this phenomenon called theconsumerization of IT, and bring your own device, where people Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  15. 15. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemswant their iPhones to be supported, because theyd be resistingiPhones at home. OK, Ill get off my soapbox now.Joe: No, thats interesting. Im sitting there listening becauseIm a Lean guy, back from the Lean manufacturing, even more sobefore the Lean...Bob: Im glad youre physically fit.Joe: Failure rate of a lean transformation is pretty high, but itsjust not lean, its any transformation, isnt it?Bob: Absolutely. I had a client that was moving away fromPowerBuilder to .NET, and everything about this should havebeen good. It was a re-platforming opportunity to rethink theapplication, make the business more streamlined, give the ITstaff or developers the opportunity to learn a far more in-demandset of disciplines, but we got pushback from the IT staff. It neveroccurred to us, and it certainly should have, whether or not thiswas beneficial. Their experience of it was...Well, first of all; ITfolks tend to develop fondness for software, for the technologiesthey use. So theres this, deep down, sense of betrayal as theyreabandoning PowerBuilder for .NET. Secondly, theyd ratherdevelop with PowerBuilder. They didnt in .NET. Its not just adifferent syntax; its a different design philosophy.We put all of this together, and we had taken a very highlycompetent crew and turned them into novices, which has tohappen. Once you understand, its no surprise you need todevelop some very specific techniques to walk them through it, sothey dont resist the change. They become enthusiastic about theopportunity instead, and that doesnt happen automatically.That happens because you thought through the issues, youthought through the sources of change resistance, some of whichare on the part of the employees, many of which areorganizational factors, and then you do something about them, Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  16. 16. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: When it comes to business change, five words that you sayyou never hear from IT Catalysts, or you are, "All youve got todo is." Can you explain that question a little more, or thatstatement?Bob: This used to be a simpler statement, which was, "Theresone word that should never be juxtaposed with right software,and that word is just," as in, "Ill just write a program," or evenbetter, "You just have to write a program." This just takes it tothe next level. Look, something that you know something thateverybody listening to this knows; small projects are hard, andthey get more difficult from there. Business change is a very,very difficult thing to do. The failure rates are high, and the folkswho dont know whats going on will tout the failure rates.They say, "Only 30 percent of all CLM projects succeed. By theway, only 30 percent of all business reengineering projectssucceed, and by the way, only 30 percent of these other kinds ofprojects succeed." The interesting thing is, its always 30 percent,and thats because its like hitting a baseball. Its a really hardthing to do.The reason that more of them fail than succeed, were dealingwith a hypothesis about how the business might run better. Theonly way to test that hypothesis is to try it in the real business,and even if it doesnt run better, you dont know if youre doing itwrong, because youre contrasting something that people are justfiguring out with something that they have years and years ofpractice in.Business change is intrinsically hard. You need to have a goodconcept, a better concept than the one youre using right now.You have to think it through in enough detail that it isnt just thetwo most obvious cases; it handles the same 85 cases that yourcurrent process handles. You need to anticipate the sources oforganizational resistance, and know how to deal with them. Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  17. 17. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsAnd you have to constantly adapt, because while youreimplementing your change, the world is changing around you.You have to adapt to that change. Its not good enough to say,"Well; we need to avoid scope creep," which is defined as, "Thecreep who changed my scope." Of course, what Agile is all aboutis being able to constantly and flexibly adapt.Well, thats just as important about changing how your part ofthe business runs as it is about what the software is supposed todo. We never say, "All youve got to do is," because "all youvegot to do" makes it sound simple, and thats a great way to landan account early, and then create nothing but disappointmentlater.Joe: To me, it sounds like, I have this project over here, but Ireally have to spend as much time working on getting the projectused in the business." Is that a fair way to describe it?Bob: Youre darn right. Thats a very fair way to describe it.There are at least two pieces to this, maybe three. The first pieceis: Have you actually done any work doing business design?Because new software, to have things happen the same old wayis really a bad fit, so right alongside... In fact, I advise we shouldall be getting rid of the word "requirements" altogether."Requirements" dont mean anything. We should be talkingabout, "How do you want the business to run? Whats thesoftware need to do to support it?" Maybe thats a requirement,maybe not, but "requirements" has this connotation of thisconversation that were accustomed to having with businesspeople, which is, "What do you want the software to do?"They have no idea. Thats not what theyre supposed to bethinking about. Theyre supposed to be thinking about, "How do Iwant the business to run?" So the first piece is the businessdesign piece. The second piece is at the executive level, becausetheres this open secret that the path to career success amongbusiness executives is always to advocate bold change. Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  18. 18. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsHowever, bold change is risky, so the ideal situation is when youadvocate bold change, but you cant make it happen because itssomebody elses fault, like, for example, IT. So the second sourceof change resistance are the business executives who want it intheory, but really might not want it in practice, or one does, butis threatening to another. There are business-level politicalrelationships you need to pay attention to.By the way, one of the challenges to business changemanagement, you cant put everything you know on paper,because somebody might find the paper. What you need to takeinto account are some things that are unspoken.Anyway, thats the second level, and then the third level is theemployee level. The employees, in change managementliterature, theyre usually called the targets, or the users, or themore accurate term, victims. Theyre the ones who have to pickup the pieces and make it work, whether its been thoughtthrough well or not, and you need to deal with all of theirpotential reactions to the change, and anticipate what mightcause them to resist.Then put a plan in place, so that if there are legitimate factors,you mitigate them. If its a matter of uncertainty, youcommunicate. If it does not understand why the change evenmatters, its persuading. All of this is part of change managementplanning, and if you dont do it, then shame on you, because itdoesnt have to be that hard.You simply have to plan for all the human factors and theorganizational factors right alongside the task that you need tobuild the new products.Joe: Well, you have an upcoming workshop with David Andersonin Los Angeles, and its on this business change management.What would someone learn in that workshop? Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  19. 19. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsBob: They would probably learn that David and I have differentviews on this that, depending on your perspective, are either inconflict or complementary. David tends to focus a lot more on thepsychological dimension, and on a lot of the cognitive researchthats been done that show that humans arent fully rationaldecision makers. Hes absolutely right, and that does add someadditional wrinkles to the entire business of business changemanagement. My view, as I mentioned, is that people tend toresist change because theyre smart, which might sound like itsat odds with this research. Its not so much at odds. Thedifference is theres a difference between linear algorithmicthinking and pattern-matching, narrative storytelling kinds ofthinking. Most of the time, it gets people into the same place, butone is much less conscious than the other.David will probably be...Again, Im characterizing hisperspectives, so I might not get this exactly right. David will betalking far more about the emotional reaction, and Ill be talking,probably, more structurally, and more about anticipating, andcreating a multidimensional plan that includes the non-personalfactors that lead to organizational change resistance.Anyway, between the two of us, it should be a pretty thoroughlook at what you have to do to make change happen.Joe: So there are specific steps involved in trying to have asuccessful business change.Bob: Yeah, like so many things. By the way, Im not, by nature,a planner. By nature, Im an improviser. My guy was MacGyver.You give me a roll of duct tape, and Im just happy as can be. Butthe planners always win. The reason the planners always win istwofold: One is they know what theyre supposed to do next, sothey dont have to make it up as they go along, so its moreefficient. The second one, by the way, is when an improvisersdealing with a planner, they find they cant improvise because the Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  20. 20. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsplanners put 22 meetings on their calendar, and theres no roomleft to improvise.Im sure thats connected to some concept we were talkingabout; I just dont know which one, so Ill leave it to you to drawthe thread.Joe: Well, thats a lot of what I talk about, that I think, and evenin some of my work, that I believe that everybody has to managestandard work, and everybody has some, and the better youmanage standard work, the more effective and efficient you areat it, allows for the continuous improvement, allows for thecreativity, because you free up more time to do it. Withoutmanaging it, you dont have the time.Bob: Absolutely, and by the way, you brought up continuousimprovement. Its an interesting topic, because continuousimprovement in business is very, very parallel to Agile as asoftware methodology. One of the interesting challenges, in fact,about Agile, its a far better way to create software, but its awhole lot harder to build business change tasks into an Agileproject, because Agile has so much of a conscious focus ongetting the software done properly. One of these that Ive workedwith clients on in the past is exactly that, how to add businesschange management tasks, and business design tasks, into anAgile framework, and still have everything come out OK.Joe: Interesting topic, because I think that the waymanagement has gone, and the way were looking at things now,is that weve seen how much, Ill use a lean term, "waste" theresbeen in just accomplishing things, rather than putting them intopractice, and we have to start putting things into practice.Bob: You bet. In fact, its interesting you put it that way. Lean isall about getting the waste out, but if you do Lean softwaredevelopment, and your endpoint is software that meets thosespecs, the whole project is probably waste because you havent Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  21. 21. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsincorporated the additional work that you need to do to make itmeaningful in the business. Thats not so much criticism as itstime for everybody to move ITs goal posts from, "Were donewhen the software meets the specs," so its a great opportunityfor an argument.Im sure you and your listeners have all been in this argument atleast once. Its the argument, "Well, when the software meets thespecs, were done," and the business people say, "I dont care if itmeets the specs. I didnt understand them in the first place. Youjust made us sign that document, or you said you wouldnt moveforward. We cant use the software." So you have a brainstormingsession instead of figuring out, "What do you need to do so thebusiness change happens?"Joe: I think thats a great point and a great place to end this.Tell me about your seminars?Bob: Well, Im glad you asked. I wish I could engage in someself-promotion by saying, "Yes." Actually, this is an exception.Almost 100 percent, my seminars are designed as in-houseevents, so that an organization would bring me in. I would takemaybe 15, 20 at a time, and take them through either thebusiness change management or the project management, or acombination, depending on what you want. One of the bigadvantages to doing this in-house is when I do these seminars, Idont do role plays. Well, Ive got one, but it involves miming, soits not a real role play. Well, sort of. Well, never mind.Anyway, most of what I do has nothing to do with role plays.They are business discussions about real world situations thatpeople in the class are facing right now. Its a whole lot easier tohave those conversations when, first, everybody in the room hasa similar set of business experiences that they going through, andsecond, they dont have to worry about non-disclosures. Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  22. 22. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsIf theyre revealing sensitive information outside the companyand all the rest of that, it makes it hard to have meaningfulconversations about what people are dealing with.Joe: Well, someones interested. Whats the best way forsomeone to contact you?Bob: I am the easiest person to contact in the known universe,either or on, IT Catalyst being myconsulting company, IS Survivor is where I publish. Theres acontact page that has every known way in the universe of gettinga hold of me.Joe: Well, I would like to thank you very much, Bob. Iappreciate it. This podcast will be available on the Business901iTunes Store and the Business901 blog site, so thanks again.Bob: Joe, thank you for taking the time. I sure enjoyed it. Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901
  23. 23. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Joseph T. Dager Business901 Phone: 260-918-0438 Skype: Biz901 Fax: 260-818-2022 Email: Website: Twitter: @business901Joe Dager is president of Business901, a firm specializing inbringing the continuous improvement process to the sales andmarketing arena. He takes his process thinking of over thirtyyears in marketing within a wide variety of industries and appliesit through Lean Marketing and Lean Service Design.Visit the Lean Marketing Lab: Being part of this community willallow you to interact with like-minded individuals andorganizations, purchase related tools, use some free ones andreceive feedback from your peers. Marketing with Lean Book Series included in membership Lean Sales and Marketing Workshop Lean Service Design Workshop Project and Change Management Simplified Copyright Business901