Agile Techniques in Management


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Radical management is a fundamentally different approach to management, with seven inter-locking principles of continuous innovation: focusing the entire organization on delighting clients; working in self-organizing teams; operating in client-driven iterations; delivering value to clients with each iteration; fostering radical transparency; nurturing continuous self-improvement and communicating interactively. In sum, the principles comprise a new mental model of management.

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Agile Techniques in Management

  1. 1. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsAgile Techniques in Management Guest was Steve Denning, Author of The Leaders Guide to Radical Management Related Podcast: Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  2. 2. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsSteve Denning’s new book is The Leaders Guide to RadicalManagement: Re-inventing the Workplace for the 21st Century(Jossey-Bass, 2010). Steve is also the author of the award-winning books, The Secret Language of Leadership (Jossey-Bass,October 2007) and The Leaders Guide to Storytelling (Jossey-Bass, 2005). Steve works with organizations in the U.S., Europe, Asia and Australia on leadership, innovation, business narrative and reinventing management. From 1996 to 2000, Steve was the Program Director, Knowledge Management at the World Bank. In November 2000, Steve Denning was selected as one of the world’s ten Most Admired Knowledge Leaders (Teleos). In the Fall of 2009, Steve was a Visiting Fellow at All SoulsColleges, Oxford University, UK. Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  3. 3. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe Dager: This is Joe Dager, the host of the Business901podcast. With me today is Stephen Denning. Stephen is a leadingwriter who consults with organizations in U.S., Europe, Asia andAustralia. He has a recent book called "The Leaders Guide toRadical Management." Steve is a great storyteller and afterseeing the cover of your new book "Radical Management," youhave to start out by explaining the matches on your cover.Stephen Denning: Thanks for having me on the show. Thematches reflect the fact that studies show that only one in fivepeople are fully engaged in their work. Only one in five people arepassionate about their job. Four out of five people are basicallytreading water. So this is about those four out of five burntmatches and how we can light them, how we can change theworkplace so that most people are having fun at work, mostpeople are having a productive work time. A study came out justthis week saying that in 2011, 84 percent of people in the U.S.workforce plan to change their job. Astonishing, 84 percent planto change their job.So in one hand, it shows you that people are not happy in theirjob and they want a change. Secondly, when 84 percent ofpeople are not happy in their job, then changing jobs isnt likelyto do much good. It shows the futility in that; we really need tochange the workplace. We really need to be running ourorganizations differently. So thats the picture on the cover andthe fact that we do have a lot of burnt out people in theworkforce. It is not their fault; it is the way the organizations arerun.The good news is that, a lot of organizations have figured outhow to do this. Organizations have figured out how to get notonly high productivity but continuing innovation and deep jobsatisfaction and client delight. The book is about how thoseorganizations do it and why they do it and the techniques Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  4. 4. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsinvolved in doing it, what the constraints are and the difficultiesin making it happen but ultimately, how to make it happen.Joe: How did you first run across this material for your book.What brought you to that point?Stephen: I worked in the World Bank for many years, and whenI was in my... In the late 90s, I was Director of KnowledgeManagement. And in that role, I discovered the power ofstorytelling. So I wrote a book about leadership storytelling. Howstorytelling can communicate strange, new, complex ideas andspark people into action. And I spent really the first eight years ofthe new decade, from 2000 onwards, coaching organizationsaround the world how to do that, how to use storytelling to getpeople to embrace new ideas. And there was tremendoussuccess.In most of the Fortune 500 companies, I was able to go in andshow people how to use the power of storytelling, and peoplewould get really excited, programs set up, and CEOs would bethrilled, and senior managers would take it on. I was thinking,"Well, this is really great." But when I looked around later, I sawthat these initiatives didnt seem to stick.They would flourish for a while, but then something would happenand they would go wrong, and I looked around and it wasnt juststorytelling. The same thing happened in innovation. It happenedin lean manufacturing. It happened in knowledge management, inpretty much every creative activity.I just mentioned that four out of five people are not fully engagedin their job, so I thought this is crazy. This is really very strange.There must be a different way to run things.I looked around various firms that are doing this, and I wassurprised to find that the most advanced firms that I could findwere in the field of software development. I came across Agile Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  5. 5. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsand Scrum and these iterative ways of developing software, and Iwas astounded at how evolved and developed they had gone inhaving workplaces that had this combination of high productivityand deep job satisfaction and client delight.I also realized that most people didnt know what was happeningin software development. In general management, literature,very little was known about this. It was regarded as some kind ofesoteric, obscure little branch, and had no relevance tomanagement in general. If it even was mentioned in amanagement textbook, it would be on page 400 in a footnote, butit seemed to me this is central.If you could actually run organizations this way, there would behuge benefits. I came across organizations that were doing thisoutside software development, and of course, you had seensimilar things happening in Lean manufacturing for some time,and I saw it spreading into really all sorts of different parts of theorganization because once an organization had figured out how todo this and they had seen the huge gains that had been madeboth for the people doing the work and for the organization, thenthey start to think, "Well, why only in software?""Why arent we using this in the rest of our business, Inmarketing, in sales, in legal work, in accounting, in pretty mucheverything were doing in the organization?" Why dont we runeverything this way, and so the book is an account of that. Howthis better way of managing, a better way of running anorganization can be used throughout the organization and reallyrevolutionize the world of work.Joe: Software is more of a knowledge field. And you canunderstand, because to iterate knowledge is pretty easy. Can youreally take it into a broader perspective into an organization?Stephen: Well, I would say most work has become knowledgework. There are a few little areas where it isnt the case. But I Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  6. 6. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsmean, 100 years ago, most work was semi-skilled work, butbasically, you walk into any organization today, most of the workinvolves knowledge work and even work which doesnt appear tobe knowledge work. In fact, the challenge for management is,"How do we turn that into knowledge work?" How do we take theroutine parts of that and have it done by machines or computers?And how do we apply the brains and the talent and the energiesand the ingenuity and the creativity in these people so that theycan make a real contribution to the work?So overall, I mean, a huge proportion of the work is alreadyknowledge work, and the challenge is to make all of it knowledgework. So this software, in a sense, is pure knowledge work. And itis no surprise then that this would be the area where thisemerged most fully because in this area, if you dont manageknowledge work effectively, then nothing happens.I mean, when you dont do software properly, I mean, you get ablue screen. There is no argument. Is it working or is it notworking? I mean, in other areas, in sales and marketing maybe,you can BS your way through and say, "Well, I dont know if thiswill work, it should work." Something went wrong, but it waspretty much there, but in software, it is either there or it is notthere, and it is cruel.In the 80s and 90s..., you would see these huge projects andthey wouldnt work. They were way over budget, they were waybehind schedule and many of them were canceled, and evenbefore they were ever completed, the firm simply gave up onthem, and so, I mean, they whipped the software developers,they punished them. They sent them on death marches, theymade them work overtime and weekends, they got the bosses,and they got new software developers. It didnt make anydifference. Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  7. 7. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThey had to figure out a different way to do it and so Scrum andAgile was born, and yes, it is a better way, but it is a verydifferent way, and it is a very different way of managing, asanyone involved in it can tell you. So this is the challenge. Howdo you communicate and transform the whole of management, sothat they realize that this is in fact not some esoteric thing forLean manufacturers or software developers, but simply a betterway to run organizations when the bulk of the work is in factknowledge work.Joe: Do you see a direct correlation then between Lean andradical management?Stephen: Absolutely. Lean and Agile are two of the forerunners.I mean, there are many other forerunners. I mean, marketing isalso a big forerunner of this kind of thinking because the focushas to be on delighting the client, and that is what marketing isall about. Thinking from the clients point of view and thenworking backwards from that because traditional managementhas always had an adversarial relationship with marketing. Thereis a wonderful book by Al and Laura Ries, "War in theBoardroom," giving 25 reasons how traditional managementcrushes great marketing ideas. So yes, marketings a source,Lean is a source; Agile is a source, many sources, qualitymanagement, Toyota. All of those things are sources. And whathappened to us in the last few years, these different sources havecome together.These different sources tended to be viewed as kind of separatesubjects. But now this is showing that these different aspects,Lean, Agile, marketing, are really interdependent facets of adifferent way of managing, a different way of runningorganizations. So in the book, I give the history, where thesethings came from. And so in a sense, individually, none of theseelements are new. Individually, all of these elements have manyyears of experience. So thats the good news, is that we know a Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  8. 8. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsgreat deal about each of the components. What is new is puttingthem all together. Putting them all together in a comprehensive,integrated way and seeing them as an interdependent set ofchanges.It is something thats fundamentally different, a different way ofthinking and speaking and acting in the workplace.Joe: What stops a manager from saying, "This is a great idea,let’s do it." Why dont they grab a hold of this right away? Theymust be taken back by this a little bit or you wouldnt have calledit "Radical Management," if you didnt think that a little bit.Theres got to be a big change in management philosophy to dothis, doesnt there?Stephen: It is different. It is a change. Smart managers aresaying, "Great, lets do it." How do we get them on board? Howdo we implement this? Management has been done in a certainway for 100 years. Organizations have really been run prettymuch the same way for the last 50 years, to a large extent for100 years. There is a whole lot of tradition and people trained inbusiness schools and management textbooks and so theres awhole lot of inertia that a different way of doing things would bebetter. But it will happen because the economics will force it. Imean, because organizations run in this way, they are muchmore productive and make a lot more money and are much moresatisfying for the people doing it. Economics will basically put thecompetitors out of business. If you watch what Apple has done tothe music industry or what Southwest Airlines does to theorganizations, this way of running an organization, or whatToyota has done to Detroit. This way of running organizations,basically, will put the competitors out of business.So it will happen. The big question will it happen elegantly andquickly and intelligently, or whether it will happen brutally and Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  9. 9. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemssimply because people havent realized that theyre running theorganization in the wrong way.Joe: As you read your book, you look at user stories and youlook at more of the team type of collaboration, but are reallysaying that the org chart is kind of going out the window?Stephen: Well, Im not saying that hierarchy is gone. Im notsaying that authority is gone. But I am saying that the way oflooking at an organization as a big set of boxes is anachronistic,is really inappropriate. I mean, youve got the big box at the topwith the CEO and "Im the man," and youve got the middlemanager whose saying, "Keep off my turf." Youve got the directline supervisor whos saying, "Thats not my job." Thosebureaucracies, those hierarchical bureaucracies, simply arentagile enough to cope with the modern workplace and so they aredoomed. This is about teams and networks of teams. Networks ofteams where everybody is focused on, "How can we delight theclient sooner?" Who is the client? What is value for them? Howcan we do something that will give them more value or get thesame value to them sooner? Have everybody in the organizationwith a clear line of sight and focus in on that. The boss is not themanager, the boss is the client, and the boss is the customer. Inthat sense, its a radical shift in view and in vision, and the whole,and all of the behavioral, and managing, and changes that comefrom this different way of looking at the organization.Joe: When I look at continuous improvement in Lean and SixSigma companies, one of the first things I see is they take what Icall the control point, and they move it internally within thecompany. What youre saying, through the methods that you talkabout, youre taking a control point externally and focusing it onthe customer, where it should be.Stephen: Right, exactly. Six Sigma in some ways, these weregood programs in that they improved quality. But to the extent Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  10. 10. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthat they were embedded in bureaucracy, it didnt improve a lotfor the workers, and in many cases didnt improve productivity inthe organization. By focusing with that kind of outside inperspective rather than the supply chain delivering stuff to thecustomer. Youre starting from what would, what would thecustomer, what are the customers problems, what is botheringthe customer, what would be a real win for the customer, andhow could we help them get there? How could we change whatwere doing to be responsive to that? So its a differentperspective.I cited recently on my blog, how did Qatar win the World Cup, winthe right to host the World Cup in 2022? It sounds like animpossible challenge because Qatar is a tiny nation. It was facedwith competitors like the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Australia, whohad overwhelming advantages. They are not a soccer nation,tiny; they had no facilities, basically no facilities. How could theypossibly win this bid to hold the World Cup in 2022?Well, it turns out what they did was they started from whatsoccer authority, FIFA, wanted. They examined in great detail andvery carefully, what is the soccer authority looking for? And theydid their utmost to deliver everything, absolutely everything thatthe soccer authority wanted.So instead of saying, "Heres what we bring, heres what wevegot." They started at the other end, and decided to deliver whatexactly what the client wanted. And they learned all thelanguages of the different people in the soccer authority, theylearned French, they learned Spanish, they learned English, andso they were able to communicate with every delegation in theirown language.So people were kind of amazed that, "Heres this little countrythats really doing everything to delight us." Whereas, these otherbig companies are coming in and saying, "Well, were the U.S. or Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  11. 11. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemswere Australia, so were obviously the best for this thing."Delighting the client actually works better.Its a different way of thinking and acting, and focusing the wholeorganization on, "How can we add more value, and deliver morevalue sooner to the people that were supposed to be helping?"Joe: Youre delighting the customer, but youre really looking atbeing a flat organization where everybodys kind ofcommunicating with the customer. In a sense that these workteams develop driven by what the customers needs are, andthen kind of self-organize.Stephen: And working in short cycles is another key part of it.Working in short cycles so that you can see at the end of eachcycle whether, in fact, youre delighting the customer and gettingdirect feedback. Did what we do in the last iteration, lastfortnight, a month, or whatever it is, did that delight the client? Ifnot, why not, and if it did, how can we do more of it? I do talkabout using self-organizing teams. Because you do need to havepeople who have the initiative and creativity to put themselves inthe minds and shoes of the client and start to understand whatcould possibly delight the client. So it does need ingenuity andcreativity, and a bureaucracy is not going to accomplish that. Sohaving self-organizing teams is possible, but self-organizingteams is a risky form of organization if you dont havecheckpoints.So having short iterative cycles of work enables you to take therisk out of having self-organizing teams. You check at the end ofeach cycle, "Did we delight the client, have we met their needs?"If they are, then you know the team is working and then you canmove onto a new cycle. If you havent, then you have a chance torethink the team. The role of the manager changes from beingthe boss of the team to being the remover of impediments.Setting the goals for the work cycle, but then identifying any Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  12. 12. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsimpediments that are getting in the way of delighting clients andsetting them out removing them and it is a different function forthe manager.Joe: The manager’s job is to really make the work flow for him,to remove the obstacles so the team can work through theiteration. That should be well defined when they start?Stephen: I mean, the manager still has a role, and a verydifficult role, of actually defining what each iteration of workshould look like, what it should accomplish in the light of what isknown about the clients. So thats a tough decision. In manytraditional organizations, they are not able to make those kinds ofdecisions. And so, people stop doing work and then when theyget halfway along, they find out well, somebody in theorganization doesnt like it. So you have whole structures overand above the work that are reviewing and second guessing andaggregating, and really just slowing down the work. The realvalue to the client is being added by the people actually doing thework. I was struck when I was working in the World Bank. A largepart of the time was spent actually satisfying reviewers and othervarious parts of the organization that what we were doing madesense.It used to take about a year to do a loan. There was a specialprocedure to do emergency loans, when there was an earthquakeor a flood or something like that. Then the rules would be setaside and a team would be appointed. They would be givenauthority to make decisions and they would get the job done insix weeks. I kept asking the management, "Look, if we could getthis done in six weeks in an emergency, why dont we do that allthe time?Joe: Why does there have to be an emergency?Stephen: "Why do we need to wait for an emergency whenthese operations that they put out in six weeks they look pretty Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  13. 13. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsgood? They look as good as the other operations." Well, that thenpeople would say, "Then what would the rest of the organizationdo?" Well, exactly. You have to start looking at the organizationdifferently and sad to say. Look, the value to the customer isbeing generated by the people doing the work. All of thesesecond guessers, and reviewers, and supervisors andaggregators, I mean, are basically are not adding value. Theyhave to, and theyre a huge part of the cost of the organizationand theyre actually slowing things down. Rethinking theorganization means actually getting meaningful work for thosepeople, as well as getting out of the way of the people who areactually generating value for the customer and the client.The organization becomes radically more productive. We can dothings much faster than we have ever done before. Thats theway this transformation happens. I mean, a couple of examplesin the book,, a billion dollar company or a smallerone, Total Attorneys, they started out as start-ups and they werevery agile and they could do things very rapidly, turn on a dimeand then as they grew they introduced management, which isbureaucracy and they started to see the firm steadily slowing andslowing and slowing down.Then they asked themselves, "What went wrong? Why could wedo things so much faster when we were just a small team? Whydont we go back to doing it in that way?" And so they still have amemory of what it was like. In some of the newer, largeorganizations, they dont always have that memory and so itssomething thats sort of radically new for them. There are plentyof examples now that they can go and visit and see how itsoperating and talk to the managers and talk to the people. It isnot, this is not, it is not snake oil, its not smoke and mirrors. It isactually happening. It is a better way to run the organization.Joe: I think you made a good point there earlier, that there arespecial instances that enable you to do things. One of the things Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  14. 14. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthat Ive seen people do is they go in and they expedite a job andcut the time in half. Then you ask them, "OK, what did you dospecial for that person to do that?" Then start looking at why youcan’t do it all the time, and start looking at it from thatperspective. I think, most of the time, the inclusion of thecustomer in that process is what makes it faster.Stephen: Right. Getting these second guessers, these reviewersand supervisors out of the way and having them focused onremoving impediments rather than creating impediments.Joe: Your book actually does kind of give an idea for a companyon how to start, doesnt it? It gives you an outline on how to putsome of these principles in place, doesnt it?Stephen: It does. It has 70 practices, more than 70 practicesthat show how to do it and it also has a chapter on how toimplement it. The journey of each company will be different. Igive a number of examples of the different journeys. In one caseit was launched by the CEO, in other cases it was launched bysomeone in the upper little management, in other cases it wassomebody lower down who was able to get the attention of thewhole organization and eventually get change throughout theorganizations. But it begins typically with one person, one personrealizing, "This is, this is a better way to run an organization, whydont we do it?" Then start persuading colleagues and peoplehigher in the hierarchy and lower in the hierarchy and on thesame level and developing momentum and saying, "Lets try itout".Typically the first couple of gos trying it out there are somehiccups, as you would normally expect, and learning from otherorganizations, getting help from people who have done it beforehas been a crucial part. But approaching it in this collaborativespirit, this is you have to in a sense set aside the top downcommand and control way of communicating and communicate in Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  15. 15. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsconversations through stories, through metaphors, throughopen-ended questions, and having adult to adult conversations,just one person talking to another as we are now, and not asuperior talking to an inferior top down but having meaningfulconversations.It begins in a sense with a change of heart, which, a change ofheart, a realization that this traditional way of running anorganization is not good for the organization, its not good for thecustomers, not good for the people doing the work and when youlook at, the widest thing, its not good for society as a whole.So when there has that change of heart in one person, and thenthat change of heart spreads to other people then you start tosee the revolution happening.Joe: You talked about user stories, the typical stories that occurin Agile. This is one of the things youve identified with becauseyou are a great story teller and youve written couple of booksabout it. But you really believe that you need a story in theseprocesses to work from, dont you?Stephen: In the processes themselves yes, I mean, that wasone of the things that really struck me about these Agileworkplaces, Agile teams, Scrum teams is that youd, talking tothe people and theyd say, "I executed three stories today. Iexecuted four stories. I executed two stories." They are thinkingabout the work in terms of making a story come true. The work isnot defined as Im going to produce so many widgets or so manythings, or so many services. "I am going to make the followingstory come true that somebody would be able to go to thewebsite and be able to do the following thing. My job is to makethat story come true." When theyve made that story come truethen theyve executed a story. I mean, I was astounded to hearpeople talking like that and I realized that they were thinking and Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  16. 16. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthinking in stories. They were thinking, looking at the work interms of stories.That was a big eye opener for me. The other of course from myearlier work is that how do you communicate this very differentway of running an organization to people? All of the leaders inthis movement in Agile and Scrum are great storytellers. Theyreall brilliant exponents of what I call leadership storytelling.Theyre able to give examples and anecdotes and meaningfulnarratives of how other organizations have done it and whatproblems there occurred and what successes they had and whatit meant for the organization, what it meant for the customers,what it meant for the people.The spirit and the heart of that can really only be communicatedby stories and these, the leaders of the movement are reallyquite marvelous and their instinctive way in which theycommunicate with stories.Joe: It kind of sounds like Disney.Stephen: Well, it is fun. I mean, I would say at one point in thebook that, if youre not having fun at work, you probably still inthe land of traditional management. Im not saying its always aball and always easy and people are always happy. But if yourenot hearing laughter in the work place, if youre not, people arentexcited about what theyre doing, then you know the work placeis not productive. You know that youre not getting a highproductivity out of the people doing the work. And so it is Disneyin that sense, that it is about having fun at work but its also veryserious. This is about getting things done more quickly and withhigher value and getting it done in a more satisfying way. So thework place becomes something you would actually want to be inrather than something that you want to leave as 84 percent ofthe people in the U.S. said in the survey I quoted earlier. Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  17. 17. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: I hear this, and you think about Agile and stuff. Aremeasurements still important when you go to this type of work ordo you just wing it?Stephen: Measures are crucial. You need to keep track of howyoure doing. The next section of the book is how you do that,how do you measure whether youre delighting clients.Fortunately, this has been the whole future ahead of the workdone exactly on that. Fred Reichheld, in his wonderful book, "TheUltimate Question," it has a whole methodology for measuringwhat the clients are delighted by. Were building on the shoulderswhere people have gone before. So keeping track of whether weare delighting clients and if were not, then help me, we need todo something about it. And if we are helping, you get more of it,help people to do it sooner. So I say measurements are crucial.Joe: When I first read the book, having a little bit of backgroundin Agile... I looked at it, and think; they’re explaining Agile in abusiness sense to me. But on the other hand, it goes little deeperthan that because it reflects, it takes a tour…Stephen: This is not something esoteric; its not something withstrange new vocabulary. Its something thats really distilledcommon sense that has a firm delighting its customer. I mean,why wouldnt you want that? They have teams of people who areauthorized and theyre powered to make that happen but whywouldnt you want that? And have managers removingimpairment? Why wouldnt you want that? Why wouldnt youcheck whether this is, youre accomplishing that. In that sense Imean, I have tried to translate this into simple language and tobusiness terms and in terms that everyone can make sense andgive examples of how its happening. Join the dots and show thatthe deeper meaning of what Agile is all about.We take Agile to the next level. I mean, look, Agile manifesto2001 was a wonderful, wonderful advancement, what it had done Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  18. 18. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsbefore. But 10 years have passed since then and we have in factlearned to grade the elements. The book has some elements tothe Agile manifesto, particularly, in terms of the goals, in terms ofdelighting clients. Thats an important aspect which isnt reallybrought out in the manifesto and also getting the folks in work inthe sense. Working software makes sense in softwaredevelopment but doesnt make all that much sense in generalbusiness in terms.So translating those things into business terms and then showingthe meaning of it. What is the meaning of running an organizationand how does it compare to running an organization in atraditional way? To some extent, the literature in Agile, its kindof assumed that there traditional management will grind along inthe rest of the organization. This is really about, saying well,actually no. We need the rest of the organization to get with theprogram and to start thinking and speaking and acting in thisdifferent way.Joe: Well, I think you said it very well. I think you go back toWaterfall project management, thats how our organizations areran. You go from department to department to things get done.In the 80s and 90s you always had that internal customer whoyou were always trying to please. What youre saying withiterations and self-organizing teams is were putting thecustomers in the boardroom, were putting the customer in thefactory, and really relating directly to them, which is what its allabout.Stephen: Exactly. The customer is the boss. Thats the bottomline. Its a very different way of thinking about work andorganizations and how the world should be run.Joe: I think that you really do a nice job. Because you tied thatinto, especially with the PDCA type cycles and continuous Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  19. 19. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsimprovement... Because the only way you can improve isimproving in the eyes of the customer.You have a Google group up now that youre talking about andputting this out for people to become part of this conversation.Stephen: Ive become involved in a large scale project. Welltalk about this, really re-inventing the workplace, re-inventing thefortune 500, re-inventing the government, re-inventing the wholesector, re-inventing the education. This is really mammoth, aguide project. So in the last six months, Ive been on a dailybasis, Ive been looking at the news and commenting on thatgreat aspect of the news and what would be involved in makingthis revolution happen. So when we got to the end of the year, Iactually put in some New Year resolutions on my blog. I lookedover the past 10 years of what I had accomplished in story-tellingand looked ahead and said thats my aim for the next 10 years, isreally to re-invent the workplace and the Fortune 500,Government. And asked would people like to join me in thiseffort? I was encouraged as many, many people wrote to me andsaid, "Wow, I would like to help, what can I do?" So I had scoresof people on hand and Ive created an online discussion group onGoogle group. Its called "Revolutionizing the world of work." I setit up a couple of days ago.Already, 100 people joined and there are already livelydiscussions going on there about how we can make thisrevolution happen and how we can help individuals who are inorganizations or at outside organization or wherever they are,help make this revolution happen sooner. So if youre interested,please go to my website And you can go fromthere to the blog and check out the Google group.Love to have you on board and love to have your input into howwe can make this revolution happen sooner because wedesperately need it. Thats the world. When we think about 84 Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  20. 20. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemspercent of people wanting to change their job in 2011, you havereally out of the sense of desperational manner than me to makethis happen is really tremendous and so I need all the help I canget, so I hope that youll join me.Joe: Whats on the horizon for you? Are you speaking anywheresoon?Stephen: Talking in Washington and couple of other places, anumber of private events. If you follow me on the blog, youll beable to keep track of my activities and if theres a live event inyour area, then Ill be flagging it on the blog. That will be the bestway to keep in touch.Joe: The book is excellent. I want to thank you for your timehere Steve. I appreciate it very much. The broadcast will beavailable on website and the Business901iTunes store. So thank you again, Steve.Stephen: Thank you, Joe. Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901
  21. 21. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Joseph T. Dager Lean Six Sigma Black Belt Ph: 260-438-0411 Fax: 260-818-2022 Email: Web/Blog: Twitter: @business901 What others say: In the past 20 years, Joe and I have collaborated on many difficult issues. Joes ability to combine his expertise with "out of the box" thinking is unsurpassed. He has always delivered quickly, cost effectively and withingenuity. A brilliant mind that is always a pleasure to work with." James R.Joe Dager is President of Business901, a progressive company providingdirection in areas such as Lean Marketing, Product Marketing, ProductLaunches and Re-Launches. As a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt,Business901 provides and implements marketing, project and performanceplanning methodologies in small businesses. The simplicity of a singleflexible model will create clarity for your staff and as a result betterexecution. My goal is to allow you spend your time on the need versus theplan.An example of how we may work: Business901 could start with aconsulting style utilizing an individual from your organization or a virtualassistance that is well versed in our principles. We have capabilities toplug virtually any marketing function into your process immediately. Asproficiencies develop, Business901 moves into a coach’s role supporting theprocess as needed. The goal of implementing a system is that the processeswill become a habit and not an event. Business901 Podcast Opportunity Expert Status Should you manage your Organization with Agile Techniques? Copyright Business901