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Sugya 1 fasting on yom tov and rain on sukkos

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Sugya 1 fasting on yom tov and rain on sukkos

  1. 1. Can you fast on a Yom Tov?
  2. 3. Let’s See Our Gemara
  3. 4. Our Results
  4. 5. Rashi Explained
  5. 6. 8 Minute Break is Over
  6. 8. Some Mistakes You Cannot Undo
  7. 9. Tosafos <ul><li>Explains the gemara </li></ul><ul><li>What if I forgot to say Yaleh v’yavoh </li></ul><ul><li>Do I need to eat bread on all 7 days? </li></ul>
  8. 10. When You Forget to Say Yaleh V’Yavoh (insert) Do you Have to Repeat Bentching? <ul><li>Rule: </li></ul><ul><ul><li>If you are obligated to eat the meal and forgot the insert then you are obligated to repeat </li></ul></ul>
  9. 11. When You Forget to Say Yaleh V’Yavoh (insert) Do you Have to Repeat Bentching? <ul><ul><li>Yes </li></ul></ul><ul><li>Shabbos </li></ul><ul><li>Yom Tov </li></ul><ul><ul><li>No </li></ul></ul><ul><li>Rosh Chodesh </li></ul><ul><li>Al Hamichya </li></ul>
  10. 12. Does everyone agree to this?
  11. 13. Please open up the Ran
  12. 15. Type 1: Name 3 halachos or facts about eating matzah on Pesach
  13. 16. Understanding the Gemara אי בעי לא אכיל
  14. 17. According to the Ran, can you fast on Sukkos?
  15. 19. Summary <ul><li>תוספות </li></ul><ul><ul><li>אי בעי לא אכיל means… </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>Literally – כלל – you don’t need to eat at all! </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><ul><li>You can fast on Yom Tov if you want to </li></ul></ul></ul><ul><li>ר &quot; ן </li></ul><ul><ul><li>אי בעי לא אכיל means… </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>You don’t need to eat bread </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><ul><li>You cannot fast on Yom Tov but you don’t need to eat bread except for the first night (rest of the days (6) you can just eat meat and fruit but cannot fast </li></ul></ul></ul>
  16. 20. According to the Tosafos what if I forgot to Ya’leh V’yavoh? Would I need to repeat bentching?
  17. 21. תוספות = Depends <ul><li>On the first night </li></ul><ul><ul><li>Since there is an obligation to make a meal on the first night of Yom Tov( טו - טו ) therefore if I left out Ya’leh v’yavoh then I must repeat it! </li></ul></ul><ul><li>On the rest of the nights </li></ul><ul><ul><li>Since there is no obligation to make a meal, if I left out Ya’leh V’yavoh then I don’t repeat it! </li></ul></ul>
  18. 22. According to the Ran what if I forgot to Ya’leh V’yavoh? Would I need to repeat bentching?
  19. 23. Would the Ran agree with Tosafos?
  20. 24. Answer <ul><li>Ran would agree with Tosafos that you do not need to repeat bentching </li></ul>
  21. 25. Why? <ul><li>Although the Ran, says that you cannot fast on Yom Tov, he agrees with Tosafos that there is no obligation to eat bread = therefore there is no obligation of making a meal with bentching </li></ul><ul><li>Therefore, if you forgot Ya’leh v’yavoh on your optional meal – he would agree you would not need to repeat it on (remaining 6 days of Yom Tov </li></ul>
  22. 26. What if it rains on the first night of Sukkos?
  23. 27. Do you think you are obligated to eat in the Sukkah in the rain? Let me hear your thoughts…
  24. 30. 1010 Wins.com Weather
  25. 31. Practical Enough?
  26. 32. What does the term מצטער mean?
  27. 33. Review Q <ul><li>According to the חכמים , what is the source for the obligation to eat in the Sukkah? </li></ul><ul><ul><li>טו –טו We learned from the obligation to eat מצה on Pesach (15 th of Nissan) to teach us that you have an obligation to eat in a Sukkah (15 th of Tishrei) </li></ul></ul>
  28. 35. Tosafos Explains <ul><li>There are two separate מצוות </li></ul><ul><ul><li>The מצוה of eating on Yom Tov </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>The מצוה of eating in a Sukkah </li></ul></ul>
  29. 36. Tosafos – Brachos <ul><li>Tosafos explains that since we learn טו - טו as the source for eating in the Sukkah, therefore if you ate in the house when it was raining and it stopped raining on the first night you would have to eat again outside </li></ul><ul><ul><li>But of course I wouldn’t need to eat in a Sukkah while it is raining because מצטער is פטור from Sukkah </li></ul></ul>
  30. 37. Rosh Takes it One Step Further… <ul><li>רא &quot; ש מסכת ברכות פרק ז סימן כג </li></ul><ul><li>וא &quot; ת הא בהא תליא דכיון שהוא אוכל צריך שיאכל בסוכה וי &quot; ל משכחת לה כגון שהוא מצטער מפני ירידת גשמים ואינו חייב לאכול בסוכה אבל חוץ לסוכה חייב לאכול משום שמחת יו &quot; ט ודוקא מלילה </li></ul><ul><li>ראשונה ואילך רשות אבל בלילה ראשונה בכל ענין חובה ואפי ' יורדין גשמים חייב לאכול כזית בסוכה דילפינן מחג המצות </li></ul>
  31. 38. Rosh Explains <ul><li>Since the source is טו – טו even if it is raining you need to eat IN THE Sukkah! </li></ul><ul><ul><li>As opposed to Tosafos who only said that you could eat in the house but if it stopped raining you would need to eat again in the Sukkah </li></ul></ul>
  32. 39. Rosh + Ran vs. Tosafos
  33. 40. Ran <ul><li>You even have an obligation to eat in the Sukkah in the rain on the first night! </li></ul>
  34. 41. Ran <ul><li>You must sit through the rain and eat…? </li></ul><ul><ul><li>But why? Isn’t there a פטור of מצטער !? </li></ul></ul>
  35. 42. Summary Ran + Rosh vs. Tosafos in Brachos
  36. 43. Do you have to eat in your Sukkan on the first night in the rain? <ul><li>Tosafos </li></ul><ul><ul><li>No </li></ul></ul><ul><li>Rosh and Ran </li></ul><ul><ul><li>Yes </li></ul></ul>
  37. 44. What do you think they are arguing about? Opening Day Rain Delay – טו תשרי
  38. 45. How do we understand the גזירת שוה of טו – טו ? <ul><li>Is it teaching me the obligation of eating a meal on Yom Tov ? </li></ul><ul><ul><li>Bread at the Yom Tov of Sukkos just like we have Matzah at the Seder? </li></ul></ul><ul><li>Is it teaching me how to fulfill the מצוה of Sukkah? </li></ul><ul><ul><li>When do we consider it as if you “sat” in the Sukkah – by eating just like Pesach </li></ul></ul>
  39. 46. Is טו - טו teaching me… <ul><li>THE OBLIGATION TO EAT? </li></ul><ul><li>HOW TO SIT? </li></ul>
  40. 47. According to the Rosh and Ran <ul><li>Just like if it is raining in my house on Pesach I still need to eat מצה , so too טו - טו comes to teach me that even if it rains you need to sit and eat in the Sukkah (on the first night) </li></ul><ul><ul><li>טו - טו teaches us “ how to sit in the Sukkah” </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>There is no exemption of מצטער the first night!! </li></ul></ul>
  41. 48. According to Tosafos <ul><li>טו - טו teaches me “to eat on Yom Tov” </li></ul><ul><li>Before the גזירת שוה of טו – טו there was no obligation to have a meal of bread on Sukkos </li></ul><ul><li>If it rains, I don’t need to eat in the Sukkah, but I still need to eat a meal </li></ul><ul><li>If it stops raining, I am no longer מצטער I have to go out again </li></ul>
  42. 49. According to Tosafos טו - טו is teaching me how to eat if it’s raining? <ul><li>Therefore, once it was raining and I couldn’t eat in the Sukkah, and I ate in the house, I need to eat again in the Sukkah since I may have eaten, but not in the Sukkah </li></ul><ul><li>There is a פטור of מצטער only as long as it is raining – therefore you don’t need to eat in a rainy sukkah </li></ul>
  43. 50. This will also explain the question of the Yerushalmi in our Tosafos
  44. 51. תוספות ד &quot; ה תשבו
  45. 52. Tosafos Understands <ul><li>Since we are learning out the obligation of EATING on Sukkos from מצה on Pesach…how many OTHER HALACHOS should (possibly) also apply </li></ul><ul><ul><li>This is the debate of the Yerushalmi…namely what does טו - טו teach us </li></ul></ul>
  46. 53. How Much Do You Need To Eat in a Sukkah?
  47. 54. Depends… <ul><li>If טו - טו is like תוספות , and teaches me how to eat then it should be the same amount as מצה </li></ul><ul><ul><li>Therefore the first night I would eat a כזית in the Sukkah </li></ul></ul><ul><li>If טו - טו is like the רא &quot; ש and ר &quot; ן , and teaches me how to sit in the Sukkah then it could be more ( יותר מכביצה ) in order to establish this place as a real residence </li></ul>
  48. 55. Summary <ul><li>How you understand טו - טו affects ( נ &quot; מ ) </li></ul><ul><ul><li>Do you have to eat your Sukkah 1 st night in the rain? </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>Do you need to eat again if the rain stopped? </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>Do you need to eat 1 st night with an appetite? </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>How much do you need to eat on the first night? A כזית or כביצה ? </li></ul></ul>
  49. 56. Halacha L’Maaseh (Practical)
  50. 57. Summary <ul><li>If it is raining… </li></ul><ul><ul><li>Wait for the rain to stop (1hr-2hrs some say חצות 12:46 or if high stress even less) </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>It isn’t stopping…make kiddush and shehechyanu but no Leishev basukkah </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>Wash and eat a kzayis in the rain ( טו - טו ) ר &quot; ן </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>If it stops raining come out and have more and make bracha of לישב ( תוס ' – you were מצטער so were פטור from סוכה ) </li></ul></ul>
  51. 58. What if you ate in the rain and went to bed and woke up 2AM would you need to go out to the Sukkah to eat again and say Leishev Basuka?
  52. 59. Story from Harrei Kedem
  53. 63. Conversation of the Rov Answer to Q # 11 Note: There is more to the piece in Harrei Kedem – this is what you are responsible for
  54. 65. Answer #11 <ul><li>If a person ate already on the first night in the rain, they would not have to get out of bed again. </li></ul><ul><ul><li>Why? </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>Since according to the Ran/Rosh they already fufilled there mitzvah of eating in the Sukkah (15-15) even in the rain and to get out of bed would be mitztaer (uncomfortable) that according to Tosafos is an exemption from eating – therefore I according to everyone I don’t need to eat in the sukkah </li></ul></ul>
  55. 66. Why? <ul><li>Ran </li></ul><ul><ul><li>I already fulfilled my obligation of Sukkah </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>I wasn’t exempt from rain since there is no patur of discomfort (mitztaer) on the first night </li></ul></ul><ul><li>Tosafos </li></ul><ul><ul><li>I didn’t fulfill my obligation of sitting in the sukkah </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>But there still is an exemption of mitztaer – discomfort – on the first night </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>Therefore since to get out of bed would cause me discomfort </li></ul></ul><ul><ul><li>I can stay in bed </li></ul></ul>

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