rnchat: Signing into http://www.tweetgrid.com to participate in today's RNchat >> use hashtag &
search for #RNchat
philbaumann: Interested in nursing?: Jump into #RNchat - in 15mins 12p EST. Use http://tweetchat or
rnchat: Wouldn't you know...of all days for my computer to run terribly S-L-O-W -its @EllenRichter
moderating today's #RNchat
rnchat: Hello & welcome to the TGIF edition of #RNchat, a Twitter chat for any health care folks & of
course for RNs! We need a place to share ideas
holisticnurses: RT @rnchat: 3 minutes to #RNchat a 12 noon EST! Thanks to @philbaumann &
@Trybarefoot for the reminder tweet :)
tactile: @RNchat @tactile here. Med Surg RN in Denver, Colorado #RNchat
rnchat: #RNchat is a way for nurses to meet, tweet & share feelings, thoughts, ideas. BTW, we
welcome silent lurkers too if you are shy! :)
holisticnurses: Hi #RNChat @EllenRichter and everyone here today! Telehealth/Holistic Nurse in NYC.
rnchat: You can join our chat by signing into websites like tweetchat or tweetgrid or use twitter
search page. Use hashtag #RNchat & follow along!
HeatheratCAP: RT @rnchat: #RNchat is a way for nurses to meet, tweet & share feelings, thoughts, ideas.
BTW, we welcome silent lurkers too if you are shy! :)
nursingpins: Hey all - Vernon, critical care in New Orleans #RNchat
rnchat: Lets begin the hour by seeing who is joining in. Introduce yourselves & tell us in 140 or less
what brings you to #RNchat today
rnchat: I am @EllenRichter ﬁlling in for @PhilBaumann as moderator. I'm a critical care nurse &
legal nurse consultant in Florida :) HI! #RNchat
HeatheratCAP: Hi #RNChat @EllenRichter @holisticnurses and everyone else here. I am in Sarasota, FL.
What is today's topic?
rnchat: @holisticnurses @HeatheratCAP @nursingpins @tactile welcome! :) #RNchat
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HeatheratCAP: #RNChat, I tweet for #Voalte, a communication solution for nurses and clinicians.
rnchat: The topics will be labeled T1, T2, etc. Please remember to add topic label & hashtag
#RNchat to ea tweet so we can track your responses!
rnchat: T1 Health care professionals experience a level of grief when endearing patients die. How
can our workplaces help us deal w/ this? #RNchat
philbaumann: Thank you @EllenRichter for leading today's #RNchat!
tactile: T1 #RNchat If a nurse has an actively dying pt, on a regular ﬂoor, other staff should help
pass meds, do cares, to allow focus on pt &fam.
holisticnurses: T1 Grief support and education courses. We need a forum to talk about these issues. It's not
natural to have to just 'move on'. #rnchat
tactile: T1 #Rnchat After a death, expected or not, time should be made for the pt's nurse to mourn
w/family, speak to chaplain, have alone time.
rnchat: T1 @tactile Yes, so the nurse caring for a dying patient needs support with the rest of her
assignment. Dying patients need care #RNchat
holisticnurses: @tactile Agreed. Nurse should have more time with family. As a Hospice Nurse I had the
opp. to speak w/ the chaplain as needed. #rnchat
tactile: T1 #Rnchat If the pt's death involved prolonged resuscitation, or trauma, then the nurse may
need longer to recover. EAP can help.
rnchat: @holisticnurses T1 Its so true. People believe health care professionals just dust off and
move on, but we carry this grief inside #RNchat
Trybarefoot: Am 'listening' quietly today to #RNchat - not a topic I can contribute to - but interested all the
rnchat: @tactile T1 I'll bet most nurses dont realize EAP can help deal with grief in the workplace
ONSmark: T1 Staff retreats w/ grief counselors like the one for oncology nurses summarized at
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nursingpins: T1 There needs to be Grief Policies to make sure the option is available - agree @tactile re:
(time should be made) #RNchat
rnchat: @holisticnurses T1 Yes, I have always loved & supported the hospice principles, which
address everyone involved in the dying process #RNchat
holisticnurses: Depending on healthcare setting..."optional" meetings to share thoughts, grief counselor
onsite, narrative exercises, meditation. #rnchat
VNHC: T1 We host two annual remembrance services in Spring & Winter which many of our nurses
ﬁnd helpful and can support families #RNChat #RNchat
holisticnurses: We should use it more! RT @rnchat: @tactile T1 Ill bet most nurses dont realize EAP can
help deal with grief in the workplace #rnchat
rnchat: T1 I have never been given the opportunity to deal with grief from a loss at the workplace. It
would have helped so many times #RNchat
holisticnurses: T1 @RNChat Critical Care was always the toughest for me in regards to that. Some very
diff. code situations but no break to process. #rnchat
rnchat: T1 Has any nurse here today participated in grief counselling sessions at their workplace?
Did it help? Was it effective? #RNchat
VNHC: T1 we also partner with a local mental health org to offer free assistance/counseling to
nurses dealing w/ grief - look for similar #RNchat
nursingpins: T1 Grief time will probably have to be mandated - hospitals will not give up "unproductive
time" without a ﬁght #RNchat
tactile: @nursingpins T1 Every hospital I have worked, we made extra time to cover for that nurse
and allow her time to deal with her grief. #RNchat
holisticnurses: @rnchat T1 Never formally offered grief support counseling. If I wanted it, had to seek it out
myself, besides EAP. #rnchat
rnchat: @holisticnurses T1 Yes, in critical care many deaths are drawn out & emotional for pts,
families & STAFF! We all need soothing after #RNchat
rnchat: @ofﬁciallycoble Welcome! :) #RNchat
VNHC: T1 See the amazing Sesame Street special Wed. night? Something similar for RNs would
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be helpful. http://www.sesameworkshop.org/grief #RNchat
rnchat: @nursingpins T1 Sad to think that "time for staff to grieve" could be considered
"unproductive time"! :( #RNchat
tactile: @rnchat T1 my hospital offers regular grief workshops, and quarterly masses to remember
our patients. #RNchat
holisticnurses: T1 Not sure nursing school focused much on grief either. Remember Hospice rotation in
Comm. Health, but little about nurses' loss. #rnchat
nursingpins: T1 Nur at one time counted on each other for emotional support -but now you may not see
the same nur for days #RNchat (Is a problem) #RNchat
rnchat: @ONSmark @VNHC Thank you both for the links! :) #RNchat
VNHC: T1 Good point @holisticnurses - perhaps this is an issue that isn't adequately addressed at
the academic level. #RNchat
rnchat: T2 is along the same lines, folks :) #RNchat
tactile: T1 #RNchat @nursingpins this is a big part of where hospital culture comes into play. My
hospital automatically shifts to allow grief time.
HeatheratCAP: Sorry I don't have anything to contribute to this topic, but your comments are very
nursingpins: T1 We ﬁght for lunch breaks - grief time will not go over well with hospitals #RNchat
holisticnurses: T1 That's why I support AHNA (Holistic Nurses Assoc) principles because such emphasis
on self-care in nursing. #rnchat
rnchat: T3 Does the current educational system prepare new health care professionals to effectively
manage grief at the workplace? #RNchat
rnchat: LOL well, that was supposed to be T2 :) #RNchat
4 of 12 4/17/10 4:04 PM
rnchat: T2 Does the current educational system prepare new health care professionals to effectively
manage grief at the workplace? #RNchat
tactile: @nursingpins #RNchat T1 We must work in very different environments. When there is an
impending death on a ﬂoor, we do everything we can
rnchat: @nursingpins T1 Would you come to work on your own time to attend a paid grief
counselling session if you needed it? #RNchat
tactile: T2 #RNchat No. I took an elective death &dying class, and take educational opportunities
offered, but there was little training.
VNHC: T1 is this a potential Medicare mandate issue? Can local/fed gov. force hospitals or other
health orgs to offer grief services? #RNchat
holisticnurses: T2 So much to cover in nursing school but would help to have more preparation on nurses'
experience of death. Need more storytelling #rnchat
rnchat: @tactile T1 Based on your tweets, you should consider yourself lucky to work in facilities
that provide good nursing support!! :) #RNchat
tactile: T2 #RNchat More training on death & dying needs to occur. Now, it's just a blurb at the end
of a chapter. "unfortunately, sometime ppl die."
rnchat: @holisticnurses T2 Most everyone has experienced some loss in their life. That can be
applied in nursing school to learn how to cope #RNchat
holisticnurses: @tactile Very true! The writers must have had difﬁculty with grief too. #rnchat
VNHC: T2 Storytelling - YES! But how? There are resources available like nurseconnect.com and
others but are they being utilized? #RNchat
tactile: @rnchat T1 #RNchat I love my hospital, my manager, my coworkers. I am very lucky, but as
you know, I sacriﬁce a lot to keep my job.
holisticnurses: @rnchat T2 Agreed! An opp. to share personal experience is important and instantly
rnchat: @tactile T2 Great point about death just being a blurb @ end of each chapter! Its a topic
needing a chapter all to itself, actually! #RNchat
VNHC: T2 What's the standard/infrastructure for connecting with other nurses on a personal level?
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holisticnurses: In nursing school, working nurses need to come in to share their experiences. RT @VNHC:
T2 Storytelling - YES! But how? #rnchat
ONSmark: T2 Some nursing schools use simulations like "Simulated Death: Innovative Approach to
Teaching EOL Care" http://bit.ly/aqUyGW #rnchat
rnchat: T2 I wish there were Hospice experiences when I was a student nurse. We never dealt with
death unless it happened to occur on a ward #RNchat
tactile: @rnchat T2 Or a class in itself. I had to seek out an elective class, and felt it helped.
VNHC: T2 I also see age and aversion to technology (i.e. social media) being issues. Many in our
org don't even like to use email! #RNchat
ONSmark: @VNHC "don't even like to use email!" -- wow!!! #rnchat
holisticnurses: T2 Maybe a nurse should write a textbook solely on the topic of dying and grief in the
workplace. Perhaps there is one out there? #rnchat
rnchat: @ONSmark T2 Wonderful link! I bet simulated death could surely help nurses learn to cope
with grief better #RNchat
holisticnurses: RT @ONSmark: T2 Some nursing schools use "Simulated Death: Innovative Approach to
Teaching EOL Care" http://bit.ly/aqUyGW #rnchat
rnchat: @holisticnurses T2 Perhaps this could be your next project? We could all be contributors! :)
VNHC: T2 it seems if there was some mandate built into the Medicare reporting/reimbursement
process, part of hire orientation, could help. #RNchat
holisticnurses: Yes, I would enjoy that! :) RT @rnchat: @holisticnurses T2 Perhaps this could be your next
project? We could all be contributors! #rnchat
VNHC: T2 at least it could provide an intro to the topic and provide forum for discussing resources
(internal/external) available. #RNchat
rnchat: @ONSmark T2 Are you joking? We love the links! Don't hold back if they have relevance!
And...thanks! :) #RNchat
6 of 12 4/17/10 4:04 PM
holisticnurses: Yes! Love this! RT @ONSmark One last link: "Peer-Supported Storytelling for Grieving
Pediatric Oncology Nurses" http://bit.ly/cBjwvh #rnchat
nursingpins: T2 (Excellence in Palliative & End-of-Life Care)" from the AACN http://tinyurl.com/y7bqvpa
tactile: @rnchat T2 #RNchat I have to say that one reason I speciﬁcally have avoided picking up
hospice shifts... I don't feel comfortable doing so.
rnchat: @VNHC T2 Good point. If it was mandated for reimbursement, wouldn't that be great! I just
don't see that happening yet. #RNchat
holisticnurses: Thank you. RT @nursingpins: T2 (Excellence in Palliative & End-of-Life Care)" from the
AACN http://tinyurl.com/y7bqvpa #rnchat
rnchat: I'm going to slip in T3, because it all relates.... :) #RNchat
rnchat: @nursingpins T2 Awesome link! Thanks~ :) #RNchat
ONSmark: @rnchat Thanks for encouragement. I am not a practitioner myself so I can only be "middle
man" so to speak. #rnchat
VNHC: @nursingpins Fantastic resource, thanks! "Excellence in Palliative & End-of-Life Care" from
the AACN http://tinyurl.com/y7bqvpa #RNchat
HauteSingleMama: Aghhh! Missing #RNchat because I'm in my a review for my bio lab ﬁnal. Will read transcript
later - very interested in todays topic!
rnchat: T3 Knowing how important grief counseling is, should it be mandatory for professionals who
deal with death in their workplace? #RNchat
nursingpins: T3 - I think it absolutely should be mandatory #RNchat
ONSmark: Thanks. I've cited this & ELNEC before. RT @nursingpins: Excellence in Palliative & EOL
Care from AACN http://tinyurl.com/y7bqvpa #rnchat
VNHC: T3 Absolutely! Look at other services (i.e. police, ﬁre, etc.) - they all require counseling after
traumatic experiences, right? #RNchat
tactile: @rnchat #RNchat T3. It should not be mandatory, as everyone deals differently with grief. If
a RN is not dealing, it can be made mandatory.
7 of 12 4/17/10 4:04 PM
holisticnurses: T3 Yes, grief counseling and communication is very important for ALL nurses. We don't want
to burnout! #rnchat
rnchat: T3 Medscape for Nurses recently had a whole series of end-of-life articles, many of which
addressed nurses & how they are affected #RNchat
tactile: t3 #RNCHAT When you make something mandatory, it feels like punishment that your
patient died. It needs to be optional.
mandirocker: @RNchat T2 had Hospice rotation as a student (this graduating semester) but was < 5 hrs
x1 day, not long enough nor full scope. #RNchat
VNHC: T3 hmmm, now that I look more closely, mandatory counseling may not be req for other
emergency services - varies by county/state #RNchat
rnchat: T3 I feel that many times hostile behavior between nurses can be due to stressful situations
at work, including patient deaths #RNchat
mandirocker: @RNchat T3 No, not at all I don't believe. #RNchat
rnchat: @tactile T3 Mandatory can also be in the nurses favor if a facility MUST provide them with
support or help. It can be good! :) #RNchat
holisticnurses: RT @rnchat: T3 many times hostile behavior betwn nurses can be due to stressful
situations at work, includg patient deaths #rnchat
ofﬁciallycoble: RT @nursingpins agreed. even as a patient, I'd want a healthy caregiver who can cope --
should be mandatory #RNchat
holisticnurses: RT @ofﬁciallycoble: RT @nursingpins agreed. even as a patient, Id want a healthy
caregiver who can cope -- should be mandatory #rnchat
rnchat: T3 Great point!! >> RT @HSIJen: Even as a patient, I'd want a healthy caregiver who can
tactile: @rnchat #RNchat t3 I see potential for a "fault" to be placed. RNs may need time away from
hospital to recover, not mandatory class there.
philbaumann: T3 Facilities need 2 integrate daily support - not just 1 in-service and an occasional talk.
Needs to be proactive but not over top. #rnchat
VNHC: T3 Important to note that mandatory doesn't mean "psych evaluation" - just a
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forum/resource for talking openly about grief. #RNchat
nickdawson: RT @philbaumann: T3 Facilities need 2 integrate daily support. Needs to be proactive but
not over top. #rnchat
tactile: @rnchat #RNchat T3 I agree with mandatory education before patient deaths. I don't agree
with mandatory grief sessions after.
VNHC: T3 After losing a patient, spending 45 minutes with a trained counselor just to check in and
offer support can only be helpful. #RNchat
holisticnurses: T3 And we all know avoidance & denial may be one coping behavior in matters of death and
rnchat: @philbaumann T3 We need more facilities with innovative & supportive management to
provide integrated daily support when needed #RNchat
nursingpins: RT @rnchat: @philbaumann T3 We need more facilities with innovative & supportive
management to provide integrated daily support when needed #RNchat
rnchat: Agree!! RT @VNHC: T3 After losing a patient, 45 minutes w/ a trained counselor to check in
and offer support can only be helpful. #RNchat
tactile: T3 #RNchat @nursingpins I agree some things should be mandatory, but you cannot direct
how a nurse grieves. I would be offended.
rnchat: While everyone is still here I must say that this was truly a wonderful chat today. Everyone
offered great ideas & thoughts & links #RNchat
tactile: T3 #RNchat Also this should not only focus on RNs, all staff who care for pt should be given
opportunity to grieve as they need.
tactile: T3 #rnchat How far do you take "mandatory grieving?" Just the nurse? The CNA? Grief
counseling should be available to all and optional.
rnchat: @tactile T3 Absolutely agree with you! Grief process in health care is for ALL practitioners,
not just nurses! :) #RNchat
tactile: @nursingpins T3 #rnchat I agree with yearly training. I don't agree with a mandatory
class/workshop/therapist AFTER a pt death.
VNHC: @tactile Absolutely. And doesn't mean telling someone "how" to grieve, only offer
options/suggestions on what may work 4 individual. #RNchat
9 of 12 4/17/10 4:04 PM
nursingpins: T3 The training should be mandatory - then grieve how you want. #RNchat
holisticnurses: @tactile T2 Perhaps individual grief sessions are only as long as the nurse needs them to
be. But not right after a death. #rnchat
rnchat: T3 Just like families have a funeral & ceremony for closure, health care workers need
closure from pt relationships. We hurt @ times #RNchat
tactile: @holisticnurses T3 Exactly. I sought a brief time to pray, called my grandmother to say I
loved her, and then grieved on my own. #rnchat
rnchat: T3 I did pediatric open heart ICU for a short while. Babies died & no one talked about it. I
ended up leaving there. Too painful. #RNchat
nursingpins: T3 without training - many will continue to need a bitch slap - at least the training will prevent
rnchat: @nursingpins LOL I love your descriptions, and yes, I agree...training can only help, not hurt
the grief process #RNchat
twchat: @rnchat I know #RNchat is listed on the Chat Sched, but if you use http://twebevent.com
/RNchat u can post ur nxt chat day/time on that pg
tactile: @nursingpins t3 #RNchat It's important to realize when someone just needs a bitchslap,
metaphorically, of course.
holisticnurses: I must sign off. Lovely chat! Thank you everyone, #rnchat, @EllenRichter for moderating.
Lots of great info to read through again. #rnchat
tactile: @holisticnurses #rnchat Was great to chat with you today.
holisticnurses: PS Also wanted to share something I wrote about personal grief: http://tinyurl.com/y2clslq
Nurses need to share their experiences! #rnchat
holisticnurses: @tactile Thanks! Talk to you soon! #rnchat
rnchat: As ﬁll-in moderator I wish you all a great day & fun weekend. TY all for making my role so
much fun! @EllenRichter signing off! xox #RNchat
philbaumann: RT @holisticnurses: PS Also wanted to share something I wrote about personal grief:
http://tinyurl.com/y2clslq Nurses need to share their experiences! #rnchat
10 of 12 4/17/10 4:04 PM
rnchat: @holisticnurses Wonderful! Thanks so much for sharing your personal experience with us
nursingpins: T3 one can get training in dealing with death - or you can experience many deaths and learn
the sane -training saves grief #RNchat
grimalkinrn: #RNchat Another great chat! Thanks @EllenRichter, sorry I can't keep my twitters straight.
Thanks to everyone who participated!!
rnchat: Twitter nurses please be on the look-out for the link to the transcript of today's #RNchat on
health care professionals & grief management
VNHC: Nice chatting with everyone - will deﬁnitely be back! Thanks... #RNchat
rnchat: I'll get a transcript up asap - I'm on Amtrak now & my connection is jittery. Thanks everybody
& big thanks to Ellen! - @PhilBaumann #rnchat
nursingpins: Great job Ellen - thanks Phil -Thanks all #RNchat
EllenRichter: Thanks folks! Your tweets made #RNchat a very valuable experience! @tactile
@philbaumann @nursingpins @holisticnurses @ONSmark @VNHC :)
EllenRichter: @Trybarefoot @HeatheratCAP I hope you enjoyed the sidelines of #RNchat today! You can
always suggest other health care topics for future!
MeredithGould: @EllenRichter Always support #RNchat, in memory of Cherry Ames: Nurse Supervisor.
Trybarefoot: I did indeed! RT @EllenRichter: @Trybarefoot @HeatheratCAP I hope you enjoyed the
sidelines of #RNchat today!
HeatheratCAP: @Trybarefoot and @EllenRichter I very much enjoyed the chat today. Thanks! #RNChat
LuvenRN: @PhilBaumann I'm sorry I missed the #RNChat this morning. Do you have the next one
philbaumann: @LuvenRN Haven't scheduled next #RNChat yet but will announce soon. What time(s)
days work for you?
11 of 12 4/17/10 4:04 PM
EllenRichter: @holisticnurses Great blog posting you shared with us today at #RNchat ---thanks!
holisticnurses: @philbaumann Thank you, sir, for the RT! Amazing #rnchat as always.
philbaumann: @holisticnurses Sure! Ellen does a great job moderating #rnchat!
EllenRichter: @ONSmark Well, we are honored that you spent an hour of your birthday at #RNchat with
us!! Happy birthday & many more!! :)
storyboardlife: RT @EllenRichter: Attention Twitter RNs ~ #RNchat is tomorrow at 12 noon! Come join in to
discuss how nurses (& other hc workers) deal with grief on the job
12 of 12 4/17/10 4:04 PM