1. listening
deeply
Illustration by www.kellerdesign.com.my
How
can transform you
into a better
designer, researcher,
teammate and
leader

2. Hello,
I’m
Pei Ling
Illustration by www.kellerdesign.com.my

3. Photo by Luke Ellis-Craven on Unsplash
When was the last time you felt heard?

4. 1. Ways we already
listen
2. Why listen deeply?
3. Before you can
listen deeply
4. How you can listen
deeply
5. Ways listening
deeply has helped
me
Illustration by www.kellerdesign.com.my

5. The ways we
already listen

6. thinking of what we want to
say in response, instead of
truly listening
- wonder why my manager invited
me for a sudden meeting
- think of 100 different scenarios
and how to reply my manager
- imagine worst case scenario
when sharing performance review
results and how to counter
argument from my direct report

7. thinking of what we want to
say in response
- social banter to ease tension
- make them laugh
- make them feel better
- impress them
Source: Indi Young

8. relationship affects
how you listen
Adapted from Indi Young
timid ... make assumptions instead
of asking ... feels impolite to dig
deeper ... might annoy the speaker
... speaker might have authority …
past unpleasant experiences with
the person … or looking down on a
person more junior than we are,
whether we admit it or not, causing
us to shut down

9. Why listen
deeply?

10. so that we can develop empathy

12. so that we can develop empathy
empathy is so powerful.
it creates a connection.
it moves conversations.
it can cause action.
it lasts beyond the conversation.
it builds relationship.

13. The cost of not
listening deeply

14. ● we fill ourselves with assumptions and are led by them
● leaders breed an unconducive environment for trust to
grow
● teams don’t have a safe space to be open
● team motivation and morale are affected, impacting
work quality
● business performance and innovation can be highly
impacted by lack of employee engagement
… and more!

15. “Each person has spoken but failed to listen.
It’s true that awareness of other people’s
perspectives allows you to develop much
stronger solutions together. Knowing someone’s
perspective involves empathy. Empathy requires
listening. It is empathy that will have a huge
impact on how you work ... brings balance to
your business.”
—Indi Young—
Author of Practical Empathy
Co-founder of Adaptive Path

16. What is
empathy?

17. EMPATHY IS NOT
‘SENSITIVITY’ NOR
EMOTION
Source: Indi Young

18. EMPATHY IS ABOUT
LISTENING...
Source: Indi Young

20. Before you can
listen deeply

21. here’s where you decide if you want to listen deeply
it’s not going to be perfect on your first try.
you don’t give up easily. it’s a habit you need to form.
put aside your idea of what is right for the person, not
because you are wrong, but because this attitude
hinders you from listening deeply without cognition.
stop talking about yourself. it’s about the other person.
you listen so that you can understand.

22. How you can
listen deeply

23. For UX or Design
Researchers

24. Source: Indi Young

25. Source: Indi Young

26. Yup,
✓ no list of questions
✓ no probing
✓ no more “great! what about this...?”
✓ no one-upping the other person

27. three things to listen for
Source: Indi Young

28. Surface
Opinion
Preference
Explanation
Statement of fact
Generality/Generalization
Depth
Inner thinking/Reasoning
Reactions
Guiding principle
Cognitive empathy
cannot form here
Source: Indi Young

29. inner thinking, reasoning - thought process,
why’s and wherefores, decision-making and
indecision
reaction - emotions, feelings that causes an
action, decision, or thought process
guiding principle - rule, philosophy, or
foundational instructions for making decisions
Source: Indi Young

30. “I think that people who use social media at work
are distracted because my team members are
always scrolling through Instagram during our
weekly catch up syncs.”

33. Take-home question
Over the next few days, try to be more
aware at how you listen (or don’t listen) in
‘user’ interviews. How often do you interrupt?
How often do you shut down when the
conversation isn’t according to plan?
For Researchers

34. For all
designers

35. Three rules in listening:
Source: Indi Young
1. Pay rapt attention to the speaker
2. Get past the surface
3. Chase your assumptions

36. I asked a Product
Manager
I respected...

37. “What are some of your biggest
challenges in communicating and
collaborating with product
designers?”

38. “Being practical vs ideal. Sometimes the idea or
solution being explored by designers may be too far
fetched based on the current team’s capability.
Hence this may feel like inefficient use of time and
effort to solve the immediate problem.”
—Adi Alimin,
Vice President, Platform Products
Traveloka HQ

39. “A lot of designers talk about how PM's just shove
requirements down to them, and are not so involved
in the development process from the start.
Would you be able to share your perspective as to
why this happens and how this communication
breakdown can improve from a PM's perspective?”

40. “I think this may be due to lack of regular
communication between PM and designers. Without
this, PMs cannot share what they are thinking beyond
the current/active/ongoing project hence the
designers may feel they are only approached when
the project is about to start. In that case, the room
for discussion or brainstorming may unfortunately
already be too short hence the tension appears.”
—Adi Alimin,
Vice President, Platform Products
Traveloka HQ

41. “As a PM yourself, what are some
assumptions you make when
communicating and collaborating
with designers?
Are there some skills or values you
expect from them?”

42. “That designers come from specialized field while PMs are
generalist. They are artist that would like to delight and help users
with their works. On the other hand, PMs are very practical. I need
to try to absorb designers’ thought, recalibrate my own thought
and find the balance or win-win solution if there is a gap
between us. Skills/values expected from designers: be open
minded and iterative in finding the solution.
Over the years, I’ve learnt to be more patient and trying to give
more context of what I am trying to achieve or solve. By doing
this, I feel Designers can understand the why better, hence
empathise, and then give more ideas that may be really useful.”
—Adi Alimin,
Vice President, Platform Products
Traveloka HQ

43. Take-home question
In your next stakeholder listening session,
instead of “what do you want” or “why do you
need this”, try asking,
“What’s been keeping you up at night?
What’s been on your mind lately?
How are you feeling about the project?”
For Designers

44. For leaders

45. For leaders and
team members

46. uses for listening
session at work
hiring interviews
problem space
research
understand a
co-worker’s
perspective
stakeholder
consensus
growth of your
direct reports
yearly employee
evaluations
Source: Indi Young
growing empathy
in your team

47. Take-home question
When was the last time you felt heard?
Recall why you felt so safe and heard and
use it to share with your team lead if there
is space to provide that feedback.
For Team
Members

48. Take-home question
When was the last time you felt heard?
Recall why you felt so safe and heard and
apply the same principles to your direct
reports. Learn to ask “Is there anything else
you would like to talk about?”
For Leaders

49. Ways listening
deeply has helped
me

50. 1. Understand client/project briefs better, when I put aside
my idea of what is right
2. Work better and build better relationships with
clients/stakeholders because they know I understand what
they need
3. Look out for what people might miss out e.g. a possible
innovation, a brewing problem, etc.
4. Develop understanding of the audience of an org
5. Highlight key areas that mentees struggle with by
extracting reactions they had in their journals
6. Understand my mentees better so I can tailor the
mentoring programme to their needs
… and more!

51. Feeling heard is a gift.
When was the last time
you felt heard?
Dig deeper for the
reasons and pass
this gift on.
It will transform
the way you
work.

52. My references
Mental Models
Indi Young
Practical Empathy
Indi Young
The Making of a Manager
Julie Zhuo
Difficult Conversations in a Week
Martin Manser

53. Thank you for listening.
Huge thanks to Indi Young for her
methodology, mentoring and insights,
and Tafida Negm for her super helpful
feedback.
More questions?
peilingchin@gmail.com
www.commaconsultancy.co