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MAX JOHNS,
CS FORUM 2016.
AWESOME.
SIMPLIFIED.NET.NZ@MxDEJ
CONTENT PEOPLE AND
MARKETING PEOPLE.
IT’S COMPLICATED.
WHY?
HI, I’M MAX
JOHNS.
You may know me from such Twitter handles
as @aucklandCS and @MxDEJ
HI, I’M MAX
JOHNS.
You may know me from such Twitter handles
as @aucklandCS and @MxDEJ
STRUCTURE
PEOPLE
STRATEGY
WE FOCUS ON THE
________’S NEEDS.
user customer
REPETITION IS ________.
a waste reinforcement
IT’S BEST TO TREAT SITE
ANALYTICS AS ________.
a rough guide actual truth
GOOD WEBSITES TAKE
VISITORS THROUGH A
________.
user journey sales funnel
“We’re the last line of
defence against crap
going up online.”
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
“I’m responsible for all
of the content on the
website.”
CONTENT PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THEMSELVES
“We’re rewriting content for a
new site. Once that’s done, I
don’t know who’ll look after it.
Apparently I’m the only one
...
“We overthink things, and
over-polish things without
asking what the return is
on that effort.”
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT ...
“We’d like people not to
hate us.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
“We have a much greater
understanding of how
people perceive us and
interact with stuff.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEM...
“I’m here to shift
perception.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
“We understand how to
talk about things in a way
that is relevant.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
“We have successfully
positioned things as
desirable products.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
“They have no clue.”
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
“They hate being
corrected. Oh yes,
they do.”
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
“It’s tricking. It’s a
trickster’s trade, and
that’s why marketing
sucks.”
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
“Marketing don’t write,
can’t produce, don’t do
imagery or HTML.”
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
“Strengths!? Of
marketing!?”
WHAT ARE MARKETING’S STRENGTHS?
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
*Laughter*
WHAT ARE MARKETING’S STRENGTHS?
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
“Strength in numbers?
I honestly don’t know.”
WHAT ARE MARKETING’S STRENGTHS?
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
“Marketing is great at
getting funding for
random ideas.”
WHAT DOES MARKETING DO?
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOP...
WHAT’S MARKETING’S JOB?
CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
*Fart noise*
“They’re not great at
capturing imaginations.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
“They have no words to
explain what they do.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
“Strengths? Grammar.
But I think they just look
for the squiggly green line
and say ‘ah ha!’.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT...
“They don’t want to
engage. They just do their
own thing.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
STRUCTURE
PEOPLE
STRATEGY
STRUCTURE
PEOPLE
STRATEGY
“I don’t
know.”
WHO’S THE FIRST BOSS YOU HAVE IN COMMON?
“The
CEO.”
“There are
publishers
everywhere.”
COMMON STRUCTURES
“We’re part of
Digital.”
COMMON STRUCTURES
“Digital is blurring the
line between I.T. and
Marketing.”
COMMON STRUCTURES
“As Marketing, we’re our
own thing. My boss
reports to the CEO.”
COMMON STRUCTURES
“We’re in with Comms.”
COMMON STRUCTURES
“Marketing and Brand
are our own group.”
COMMON STRUCTURES
“I used to be in a
Marketing team. It was
weird, like I had half a
real job.”
AN UNCOMMON STRUCTURE
“We have good
intentions. We want to
work together.”
HOW DO THE TWO TEAMS RELATE?
“There’s massive
tension. We just avoid
them now.”
HOW DO THE TWO TEAMS RELATE?
“They don’t want to
engage. They just do their
own thing.”
MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
“Marketing aren’t our
customer anymore. We used
to deliver things for them, but
now we have our own Digital
agenda and jus...
“Increase our net promoter
score...But that’s not a stream
of work. We still do what we
normally do, but, umm…”
WHAT ARE Y...
WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
“Deliver results by
deadlines and build
strategic relationships to
get things done.”
“Just churn out pages.
It’s quite demoralising.”
WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
“…Improve SEO, help UX
decision-makers, increase
visits to the site, uphold
editorial standards...”
WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVI...
“Get my microsite
generating revenue.”
WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
“Improve customer
survey results.”
WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
“Increase the number of
‘call me back’ requests.”
WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
“Sell shit.”
WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
“I’m not 100% certain.
Not make money, that’s
for sure.”
WHAT’S THE CONTENT TEAM INCENTIVISED TO DO?
“Spend lots of money
making crap ads to
hopefully sell some shit?”
WHAT’S THE MARKETING TEAM INCENTIVISED TO DO?
STRUCTURE
PEOPLE
STRATEGY
STRUCTURE
STRATEGY
PEOPLE
DO YOU HAVE ANY FORMAL GOALS, STRATEGIES, OR
TACTICS SHARED BETWEEN THE CONTENT AND
MARKETING TEAMS?
“NO!”[Yelled very loudly]
DO YOU HAVE ANY FORMAL GOALS, STRATEGIES, OR
TACTICS SHARED BETWEEN THE CONTENT AND
MARKETING TE...
“Ideally we’d decide off the
back of a strategy, but there
isn’t one because no-one
knows what they’re doing.”
HOW DO YOU ...
“We have a shared goal:
customer acquisition. It’s
a company-wide
obsession.”
HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DO?
“There’s a clear line to
the corporate strategy,
and to the marketing
team’s goals.”
HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DO?
“We have good
intentions. We want to
work together.”
HOW DO THE TWO TEAMS RELATE?
CONTENT
STRATEGY
“I mean, I get it,
but…”
HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DO?
STRUCTURE
STRATEGY
PEOPLE
STRUCTURE
PEOPLE
STRATEGY
STRUCTURE
PEOPLE
STRATEGY
CONTENT PEOPLE AND
MARKETING PEOPLE.
CONTENT PEOPLE AND
MARKETING PEOPLE.
IT’S COMPLICATED.
THANKS.
MAX JOHNS SIMPLIFIED.NET.NZ@MxDEJ
CS Forum 2016: Content people and marketing people. It's complicated.
CS Forum 2016: Content people and marketing people. It's complicated.
CS Forum 2016: Content people and marketing people. It's complicated.
CS Forum 2016: Content people and marketing people. It's complicated.
CS Forum 2016: Content people and marketing people. It's complicated.
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CS Forum 2016: Content people and marketing people. It's complicated.

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How do ‘pure marketers’ think about content, and how do ‘pure content people’ think about marketing? The content strategists at CS Forum 2016 (Melbourne) heard about the prejudices, the sad truths, and the misunderstandings that can cause conflict. And they heard it from someone that’s been on both sides of the fence.

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CS Forum 2016: Content people and marketing people. It's complicated.

  1. 1. MAX JOHNS, CS FORUM 2016. AWESOME. SIMPLIFIED.NET.NZ@MxDEJ
  2. 2. CONTENT PEOPLE AND MARKETING PEOPLE. IT’S COMPLICATED.
  3. 3. WHY?
  4. 4. HI, I’M MAX JOHNS. You may know me from such Twitter handles as @aucklandCS and @MxDEJ
  5. 5. HI, I’M MAX JOHNS. You may know me from such Twitter handles as @aucklandCS and @MxDEJ
  6. 6. STRUCTURE PEOPLE STRATEGY
  7. 7. WE FOCUS ON THE ________’S NEEDS. user customer
  8. 8. REPETITION IS ________. a waste reinforcement
  9. 9. IT’S BEST TO TREAT SITE ANALYTICS AS ________. a rough guide actual truth
  10. 10. GOOD WEBSITES TAKE VISITORS THROUGH A ________. user journey sales funnel
  11. 11. “We’re the last line of defence against crap going up online.” CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
  12. 12. “I’m responsible for all of the content on the website.” CONTENT PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THEMSELVES
  13. 13. “We’re rewriting content for a new site. Once that’s done, I don’t know who’ll look after it. Apparently I’m the only one who cries about these things.” CONTENT PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THEMSELVES
  14. 14. “We overthink things, and over-polish things without asking what the return is on that effort.” CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
  15. 15. “We’d like people not to hate us.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
  16. 16. “We have a much greater understanding of how people perceive us and interact with stuff.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
  17. 17. “I’m here to shift perception.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
  18. 18. “We understand how to talk about things in a way that is relevant.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
  19. 19. “We have successfully positioned things as desirable products.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES
  20. 20. “They have no clue.” CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
  21. 21. “They hate being corrected. Oh yes, they do.” CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
  22. 22. “It’s tricking. It’s a trickster’s trade, and that’s why marketing sucks.” CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
  23. 23. “Marketing don’t write, can’t produce, don’t do imagery or HTML.” CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
  24. 24. “Strengths!? Of marketing!?” WHAT ARE MARKETING’S STRENGTHS? CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
  25. 25. *Laughter* WHAT ARE MARKETING’S STRENGTHS? CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
  26. 26. “Strength in numbers? I honestly don’t know.” WHAT ARE MARKETING’S STRENGTHS? CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
  27. 27. “Marketing is great at getting funding for random ideas.” WHAT DOES MARKETING DO? CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE
  28. 28. WHAT’S MARKETING’S JOB? CONTENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MARKETING PEOPLE *Fart noise*
  29. 29. “They’re not great at capturing imaginations.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
  30. 30. “They have no words to explain what they do.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
  31. 31. “Strengths? Grammar. But I think they just look for the squiggly green line and say ‘ah ha!’.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
  32. 32. “They don’t want to engage. They just do their own thing.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
  33. 33. STRUCTURE PEOPLE STRATEGY
  34. 34. STRUCTURE PEOPLE STRATEGY
  35. 35. “I don’t know.” WHO’S THE FIRST BOSS YOU HAVE IN COMMON? “The CEO.”
  36. 36. “There are publishers everywhere.” COMMON STRUCTURES
  37. 37. “We’re part of Digital.” COMMON STRUCTURES
  38. 38. “Digital is blurring the line between I.T. and Marketing.” COMMON STRUCTURES
  39. 39. “As Marketing, we’re our own thing. My boss reports to the CEO.” COMMON STRUCTURES
  40. 40. “We’re in with Comms.” COMMON STRUCTURES
  41. 41. “Marketing and Brand are our own group.” COMMON STRUCTURES
  42. 42. “I used to be in a Marketing team. It was weird, like I had half a real job.” AN UNCOMMON STRUCTURE
  43. 43. “We have good intentions. We want to work together.” HOW DO THE TWO TEAMS RELATE?
  44. 44. “There’s massive tension. We just avoid them now.” HOW DO THE TWO TEAMS RELATE?
  45. 45. “They don’t want to engage. They just do their own thing.” MARKETING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CONTENT PEOPLE
  46. 46. “Marketing aren’t our customer anymore. We used to deliver things for them, but now we have our own Digital agenda and just tell them.” HOW DO THE TWO TEAMS RELATE?
  47. 47. “Increase our net promoter score...But that’s not a stream of work. We still do what we normally do, but, umm…” WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  48. 48. WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO? “Deliver results by deadlines and build strategic relationships to get things done.”
  49. 49. “Just churn out pages. It’s quite demoralising.” WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  50. 50. “…Improve SEO, help UX decision-makers, increase visits to the site, uphold editorial standards...” WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  51. 51. “Get my microsite generating revenue.” WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  52. 52. “Improve customer survey results.” WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  53. 53. “Increase the number of ‘call me back’ requests.” WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  54. 54. “Sell shit.” WHAT ARE YOU INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  55. 55. “I’m not 100% certain. Not make money, that’s for sure.” WHAT’S THE CONTENT TEAM INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  56. 56. “Spend lots of money making crap ads to hopefully sell some shit?” WHAT’S THE MARKETING TEAM INCENTIVISED TO DO?
  57. 57. STRUCTURE PEOPLE STRATEGY
  58. 58. STRUCTURE STRATEGY PEOPLE
  59. 59. DO YOU HAVE ANY FORMAL GOALS, STRATEGIES, OR TACTICS SHARED BETWEEN THE CONTENT AND MARKETING TEAMS?
  60. 60. “NO!”[Yelled very loudly] DO YOU HAVE ANY FORMAL GOALS, STRATEGIES, OR TACTICS SHARED BETWEEN THE CONTENT AND MARKETING TEAMS?
  61. 61. “Ideally we’d decide off the back of a strategy, but there isn’t one because no-one knows what they’re doing.” HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DO?
  62. 62. “We have a shared goal: customer acquisition. It’s a company-wide obsession.” HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DO?
  63. 63. “There’s a clear line to the corporate strategy, and to the marketing team’s goals.” HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DO?
  64. 64. “We have good intentions. We want to work together.” HOW DO THE TWO TEAMS RELATE?
  65. 65. CONTENT STRATEGY
  66. 66. “I mean, I get it, but…” HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DO?
  67. 67. STRUCTURE STRATEGY PEOPLE
  68. 68. STRUCTURE PEOPLE STRATEGY
  69. 69. STRUCTURE PEOPLE STRATEGY
  70. 70. CONTENT PEOPLE AND MARKETING PEOPLE.
  71. 71. CONTENT PEOPLE AND MARKETING PEOPLE. IT’S COMPLICATED.
  72. 72. THANKS. MAX JOHNS SIMPLIFIED.NET.NZ@MxDEJ

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