We’ve seen this story over and over. Your client’s marketing agency wants you to do something… or you need to talk to them about a problem they are causing, and there is this gap where you don’t know how to get through to them. I’ve been on both sides of this fence. I’d like to help you close the gap with your clients or internally within your organization. We’ll discuss how to build trust, communicate effectively, and follow-through in a way that closes the gap of understanding between marketing and development. Don’t get stuck in games of politics when solid, clear, concise communication will do! Improve your marketing know-how and impress your clients and higher-ups too.

1. What Marketers Wish
Developers Knew
and other such folklore

2. Who’s this guy?

3. @dustinnay
• Marketer (10 years)
• NOT a developer
• Web designer (9 years)
• Solopreneurs to Fortune 50
• Hiking, cooking, reading
• Dungeons & Dragons
• Ich kann auch Deutsch
• Never broken a bone

4. • Web design & marketing at Smarter Parenting
• Freelance web designer & corporate event planner
• Tabletop game designer
• Aspiring fantasy writer
@dustinnay

6. • Radical Candor, by Kim Scott
• Dare to Lead, by Brené Brown
(also: “The Gifts of Imperfection”, “Daring Greatly”, “Rising Strong”, “Braving the
Wilderness”)
• Wherever You Go, There You Are, by Jon Kabat-Zinn
• Self Compassion, by Kristin Neff
(clearly also The Lord of the Rings, J.R.R. Tolkien)
@dustinnay

8. @dustinnay

9. “An ‘ideal marketing mind’ would be balanced equally between
analytical and verbal abilities, with excellent communications skills,
including listening… …well-organized, self-motivated, conscious of time,
and somewhat aggressive; emphatic, understanding, and solutions-
oriented, with a firm grounding …behavioral science; and imaginative,
creative, expressive, and persuasive. The ideal practitioner would be
cordial and congenial, easy to work with, and would truly enjoy
meeting new people in new places.”
- University of Arkansas at Little Rock website -
@dustinnay

10. @dustinnay

16. • Reliable completion deadline and follow through
• Messing up tracking codes
• Too much Javascript ahead of indexable content (and other such
coding faux pas)
• Using an elephant gun where a water pistol would do
@dustinnay

17. @dustinnay

18. End of Speech

20. People don’t like to talk about the real problems…
@dustinnay
So we’re going to talk about how to talk
about the real problems.

28. So…
What is the secret to successful
collaboration?
@dustinnay

29. Radically candid, vulnerable communication
@dustinnay

31. “I took initiative at previous companies to get to know the
Manager or Director … [this] was meant to get us on the same
page, and help us understand one another's roles.
“This led to great discussions. Devs would ask me questions
about optimizing, how they could write code or make changes
that were friendly for search engines and the marketing teams
efforts, and if what they were working on needed our input…
(continued)
@dustinnay

32. “…These discussions always led to bigger and better things.
Because we as marketers also don’t understand them…
“I would often make requests that seemed easy, but because
of our working relationship, they took the time to describe to
me why they weren't easy, were impossible, or needed to be
done differently. They could have just said "No", but they
didn’t.”
– JJ, in-house marketer –
@dustinnay

33. “Trust is the glue of life. It's the most
essential ingredient in effective
communication. It's the foundational
principle that holds all relationships.”
– Stephen R. Covey –
@dustinnay

34. @dustinnay

36. Concepts to Cover
1. Daring leadership
2. Radical candor
3. Practical Implementation
@dustinnay

37. Daring Leadership
1. Vulnerability and Empathy
2. BRAVING
3. What does done look like?
@dustinnay

39. The Power of
Vulnerability
https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_
on_vulnerability

40. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who
points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the
doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit
belongs to the man in the arena…
(continued)
@dustinnay

41. “…whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;
who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again
and again, because there is no effort without error and
shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the
deeds…
(continued)
@dustinnay

42. “…who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the
best knows in the end the triumph of achievement, and
who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring
greatly.”
– Theodore Roosevelt –
“Citizenship in a Republic”, Paris, France, 1910
@dustinnay

43. “Vulnerability is not about winning, and it’s
not about losing. It’s about having the
courage to show up and be seen.”
– Brene Brown –
“Rising Strong”

44. To be a daring leader, team member,
employee, contractor, or client
• Be vulnerable, with peers and your direct reports
• Be transparent with your team
• Find common ground in shared values to build trust
@dustinnay

46. B – Boundaries
You respect my boundaries and when you are not clear about
what’s OK and what’s not OK, you ask. You are willing to say
no.
@dustinnay

47. R – Reliability
You do what you say you’ll do. At work this means staying
aware of your competencies and limitations so that you don’t
over-promise and are able to deliver on commitments and
balance competing priorities.
@dustinnay

48. A – Accountability
You own your mistakes, apologize, and make amends.
@dustinnay

49. V – Vault
You don’t share information or experiences that are not yours
to share. I need to know that my confidences are kept and
that you are not sharing with me information about other
people that should be confidential.
@dustinnay

50. I – Integrity
You choose courage over comfort. You choose what is right
over what is fun, fast, or easy. And you choose to practice
your values rather than simply professing them.
@dustinnay

51. N – Non-Judgement
I can ask for what I need, and you can ask for what you
need. We can talk about how we feel without judgment.
@dustinnay

52. G – Generosity
You extend the most generous interpretation possible to the
intentions, words and actions of others.
@dustinnay

57. “Nothing is a bigger time-sucker or blocker to getting it
right than ego.”
– Kim Scott –
@dustinnay

58. Radical candor is humble.
helpful
immediate
in person
not personalized
@dustinnay

59. Daring leadership and radical candor, ultimately,
are about:
1. Good listening
2. Good questions
3. Direct communication
@dustinnay

60. Good questions to ask
• What does “done” look like to you?
• What is the business objective for this project?
• How much time do you (generously) need to complete your part of
the project? I need X days/weeks/months. Is that timetable realistic?
• Can you help me prioritize these requests so I get the most critical
components done first?
@dustinnay

64. Smarter Parenting: a practical behavioral
model to use in the moment
Some Fundamental Skills from Smarter Parenting:
• ABCs of Behavior
• Observe & Describe
@dustinnay

65. ABCs of
Behavior

66. Observe & Describe
• Observe what is happening or being said (non-verbal, in your head)
• Describe aloud what is happening in your own words
@dustinnay

68. Sometimes you’ll have to work with someone who
is unwilling to meet you in the middle, be
vulnerable, trusting, empathetic, or candid.
Just do your best, influence them to adjust their behavior if possible, or
move on (let them go or you quit…).
@dustinnay

69. Remember…
“Don't try to win over the haters; you are
not a jackass whisperer.”
- Scott Stratten -

70. Above all
• Be mindful of your own emotions when communicating in
person or digitally
• Try to be observant of the body language of others
• Be proactive, not reactive
@dustinnay

71. By building real relationships of trust, on a
foundation of vulnerability, empathy, and radical
candor (and of course mindfully aware of yourself
through the whole thing)…
… I believe we can greatly improve our
productivity AND our sanity, and make everybody
a whole lot happier.
@dustinnay

72. Dustin Nay
dustin@withgpm.com
@dustinnay
Please feel free to email for slides,
clarification, or questions. I love
talking about this stuff.