defining & increasing                    audiences for the                    visual arts in GlasgowWhiteNOISEQUOTESSelect...
AboutWhiteNOISE is a collaboration with the Visual Artssector in Glasgow. Through WhiteNOISE, we areworking with not for p...
WhiteNOISE Interviewees1. Mark ONeill (Glasgow Life)             12.Alison Fullerton (WASPS)2. Francis McKee (CCA)        ...
public engagementEveryone is time-starved, and a lot ofour key audience members either haveyoung children or older parents...
public engagementI have identified the difference of how amember of the public coming into thegallery behaves if it’s staf...
audienceA curator isn’t bothered about therebeing noise but... the spaces [are] justthe opposite of liveliness that makes ...
glasgowGlasgow, it’s immense in theatre, but the visual arts is a bigone as well. It can link to the history of Glasgow th...
researchOur reporting is quite onedimensional... we have just got abottom line of figures. They don’t askwho is coming, is...
sectorSense that visual artsare behind other partsof the cultural sector.                          9
resources[For training] we don’thave a dedicatedbudget so that’s why ittends to be in house.                          10
audiencesSo even we think peoplewho know the buildingreally well don’t know itas well as they think.                      ...
public engagementI would say there’s a third of the[Glasgow] population who arecompletely disengaged from mostcultural act...
sectorI think the contemporaryvisual arts sector inGlasgow is trulyastonishing, it is sofragile.                          ...
digitalThere is quite a lot oftechnology out there,which if anything we’rerunning away from at themoment.                 ...
sectorYou only have to walk around theSouth Side or the West End andlook in people’s front roomwindows to realise that peo...
salesThere just doesn’t seem to be aculture of buying contemporarywork [in Scotland]. There is nolocal market [Glasgow], y...
sectorI think the primary one that Iwould want to get across is thatincredibly fragile but rich ecosystem that survives on...
interpretationI think there always has been andprobably always will be more of aninterest in the safe traditional forms of...
research & public engagementWhere we can afford it we willactually have people standingthere but normally speakingthat wil...
glasgowGlasgow is quite asocially conservative,with a small ‘c’, city.                          20
audiences[It’s] the only [venue] thatteenagers go to in significantnumbers willingly. They’re notjust brought. ...it’s als...
public engagementYounger people aremore open tocontemporary art.                     22
strategy[Glasgow] used to have a verystrong creative industriesstrategy which didn’tparticularly do crafts, but it diddesi...
programmingThe main issues we have at themoment is that there is lesstemporary exhibitions andtemporary exhibitions always...
researchMost people focus on the numbers,and it is difficult to get anyqualitative feedback, unless we havedone some kind ...
resourcesAt the moment I worktwo other jobs to helpthe business, to kind ofhelp cash flow.                           26
sectorI think they don’t have a clue what visualarts sector means. I think we in thevisual arts sector and the bureaucrats...
digitalAudiences may use the Glasgow Lifesite, I don’t know how much of thattraffic is looking for art exhibitions andhow ...
public attitudeI think a lot of people think artists arefinancially successful – either they’re dirt poorand working in a ...
public engagementI think there’s a massive opportunity andcapacity for a real generational shift in therelationship betwee...
public engagementThe person who is in the space doesn’t look up,doesn’t meet your eye, doesn’t say hello, doesn’t,you know...
public engagementFront of house is massivelyimportant and I think it’sreally un-valued. Not justundervalued, but un-valued...
traditional & digitalI think there’s still an important role forprint. Largely because I think digitalmedia can only reach...
public engagementFront of house staff are just about the mostimportant thing in the world and we invest,not necessarily fi...
programming & fundingThe principal weakness for everybody isshort termism. I mean, that appliesparticularly at the moment ...
public engagement & researchInvigilators: we have a workforce thatchanges every year, it’s roughly around 25– 30 people. T...
public engagementAnd for the audience ifthe person’s making thatkind of art and they’rethe same age as you, doyou value it...
public engagement...particularly withcontemporary work, youcould argue that there isgoing to be a lot ofpeople looking qui...
researchI suppose the key determinantof success is numbers, and thenit is feedback on thosenumbers, and that is somethingt...
researchI gave them the gallery fornothing, but they had toinvigilate because I can’t juststaff for free. And the numberof...
researchAs a customer I don’t liketo be approached withbits of paper. So Iwouldn’t do it tosomebody else.                 ...
public engagement & researchWe have just recruited some new galleryassistants and they have been selectedfor their custome...
public engagementMost galleries, it is just like, mannods to dog. What does thatmean? I think there is a time anda place. ...
public engagementWords that they [public] would useto describe [Glasgow visual artssector]:Incomprehensible. Traditional.C...
public engagementWe’ve tried subtle, itdoesn’t work, we need touse a sledgehammerapproach to lettingpeople know what’sgoin...
resourcesA question my board has asked:“Is it actually worth us openingon Saturday? That’s payingsomebody for five hours w...
resourcesBut when it’s volunteersor casual staff coming inon an ad-hoc basis, youcan’t set tasks.                         ...
digitalWe’re actually not that fussedabout Twitter. None of the staffare advocating that that wouldbe a good idea. It gets...
digitalGrid. It makes me angry becausethere’s just so little information togive out, it’s never up to date, thelayout of i...
programmingWe’ve been trying to build up akind of events programme aroundthe exhibitions because we arevery aware of how s...
public engagementOur programme is operating at capacity.So we have no interest in recruitingparticipants, it’s recruiting ...
researchFront of house have a count ofpeople coming into the buildingbut there is no count after that.Our gallery is manne...
researchI think somewheretracking people’smovement around thisbuilding would be really,really interesting.                ...
audienceOur audience is a fairlytypical arts audience, youngpeople, student types, aswell as older crowd there aresort of ...
public engagementI think it’s like other things.People might be interested insport, for example, but it mayonly be tennis ...
mediaThere is not really a generic... theproblem with Creative Scotland is thatit’s for those in the know. The List... it’...
mediaWe are listed on The Grid as a venuebut we haven’t had anything in termsof exhibitions. But that is somethingthat has...
audienceGeographically it’s a really wide range.I am quite surprised we’ve got achildren’s arts and crafts class on aSatur...
strategyDo you have a specific audiencedevelopment plan here?No!Marketing plan?No!Social Media plan?No!                   ...
digitalOur website’srubbish before youask.                     60
collaboration & fundingI suppose the challenges are that a network is quitedifficult to establish and then there’s an awfu...
collaborationIt was one of thosecompanies, we found outafter the event, hadadopted us for Christmas.                      ...
public engagementI suppose the target audience are youngerpeople and older people as well because I thinksome of the thing...
mediaIts very superficial. It doesnt in any way cover the range anddepths of the things that are on offer. Probably the wo...
programming...slick turns people off and it needs tohave – DIY kind of punk ethos of justhappens. What’s that, that’sinter...
collaboration...a lot of people have ploughedtheir own furrow, especially thevisual arts can be veryfragmented and verycom...
collaborationI think of all the sectors the visualarts is the poorest sector. Thetheatres are much moreconnected and so on...
digitalWe need help in the development of digitalpublicity and social media. The potential for usnationally is huge in ter...
public engagementI think the lack of investment ineducation – the education sectorwould deny this entirely of course– and ...
sectorWhere do I look for news andinformation? I would tend tobe informed by daily contactwith each organisation, Creative...
researchWe have forms that people canfill in or they can email in stuffand we do get – we’ve got quitegood return rates fo...
researchThe biggest problem with profile gatheringin terms of visual arts is that because itisnt a bums on seat ticket pro...
research & programmingIt’s more about evaluation… you have gotto have a clear driven focus of what youwant to achieve. You...
research & programmingI don’t think it would hurt tolisten to your audience and Idon’t think it should ever stopyou puttin...
sectorI think one of the things we’re bad at is saying ishow many Turner prize winners, in a row, will ittake before peopl...
sector & funding...the broad assumption [is] that artistswill always work whether they’re paidor not and unfortunately tha...
digitalI think a really nice friendly website that had everythingart on it would be fantastic, that would help mobiliseaud...
sector & digitalI can’t think of a single websitethat I would say was veryimportant to audiences finding outabout Glasgow ...
public engagement...we would see it as being involved ingetting people to participate who mightnot normally go to a galler...
public engagementYou know, we do more visual artthan we do ship building now, Ithink we should try and say, weshould be tr...
public engagementAnd there are other art forms, but thevisual arts, I would say, punches wayabove its weight in national a...
cultural tourismPeople move from London now to be here,and it’s obvious to us but nobody’smarketing that. So why aren’t we...
cultural tourismI think the tourist people don’t believe incultural tourism and they don’t believepeople will come here fo...
public engagement...the danger is of course it becomesthis little cliquey thing and theneverybody’s excluded, so it’s a fi...
programmingI think we could do more... of beingmore co-ordinated, althoughsometimes – there’s the bit which is theunplanne...
resources...my paying job is VenueManagement, whereas the artthat I am making is definitelysomething that I am doing inthe...
audiencesYes I think my current targetaudience is more of the same.More of everybody please.                              ...
audiencesI had one afternoon event wherepeople could come and do someknitting and that was lovely, havinga wee left handed...
public engagement...we do have a lot of repeat customers. A lot ofpeople, who do embroidery, tend to get hookedand it beco...
public engagement...they know that if they could use a crochet hookand a ball of wall, I’m not going to look at them ina f...
audiencesChildren and spinning wheels seem to geton better than adults and spinning wheels.I’ve noticed that. I think it’s...
digital...a lot of my business comes through either myFacebook page, Twitter feed and the website. Iget a lot of queries f...
digitalI know that Twitter is the new thing butI find it annoying to use. So I try toavoid it because it’s so easy for thi...
public engagementThere would be certain pieces ofart, maybe certain individualpieces of art where the reactionwas universa...
digitalI do have access to people who haveemailed me and quite a lot of people dodrop me a line and say please put me onyo...
organisational developmentDundee and Ireland in particular, were really wellrepresented*. It was almost as though Glasgow ...
strategyWell there’s not really anystrategy so that’s really weak!It’s definitely something thatneeds work and improvement...
public engagementI think for places like BuchananGalleries on the escalator orsomething, for us to really putart in normal...
fundingI did have a meeting with CreativeScotland ages ago and found that oneof our major failings is that we don’thave an...
digitalIt needs a lot of work[the website]. Itdoesn’t help that I’mtrying to modify thecode myself.                       ...
audienceIt’s not good. And we’re all misfits in here,that’s part of the beauty of it, so I thinkwe’re trying to find a pla...
fundingWill funding issues stop you from doing anyof your plans?Probably not.You’ll just find a way?...we’ve managed to do...
fundingWill funding issues stop you from doing anyof your plans?Essentially, yes.Which ones?If there’s no support from Cre...
mediaYeah, we talk to the Skinnyquite a lot. And put things inthe List. Some local radio,Sunny Govan. The Glaswegianactual...
media...actually I’m continually frustrated whenyou look at the arts section in newspapersand it’s only theatre, or it’s a...
audiences...we have this feeling that there’s twokinds of art crowds in Glasgow. There’s likethe cool ones that go to Tran...
public engagementTaxi drivers are always my gauge, youknow, when they say you’re from thesector and culture you know you’r...
public attitudeI think people think morenegatively of contemporaryvisual art. That taxi driverchats: my five year old coul...
fundingHave you ever participated incrowdfunding?Yeah we did. We did Indiegogo* thistime last year to raise the money to b...
cultural tourism...if there was a comprehensivearts trail, you know when peopleare coming in and I think it shouldbe at th...
cultural tourismWell I think it’s because theyhave a lot of tourists so they’recoming in and they aregenuinely lost. They ...
digital...maintain our website as much as I can, and thenuse Facebook and Twitter to kind of – well useFacebook to drive p...
social mediaYeah, a number of them* arereally good at it. ...[he] isamazing at it actually, he canmake six screen prints o...
resourcesYeah, if there’s an exhibition onthat requires invigilating, it’susually the case where we say topeople in the st...
resourcesYes, I’m pretty much allthe staff. Yeah, I’m thecleaner and themaintenance lady andthe...                        ...
resourcesWhat’s your technologyinfrastructure, like PCs andthings like that?My personal laptop.                           ...
pricingIt’s interesting because unlikethe other events, the peoplearen’t used to paying forthat, in visual arts, you justw...
WhiteNOISEActivity Summary & Timeline            Developing Practice                                         ‘Designing Cu...
Culture SparksFor more details about WhiteNOISE please contact:Dianne GreigSenior PartnerMarketing & Digital Developmentdi...
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WhiteNOISE Interview Quotes

  1. 1. defining & increasing audiences for the visual arts in GlasgowWhiteNOISEQUOTESSelected interview extracts: anaggregation of some of the currentchallenges associated with increasingaudiences across the sector An activity summary and timeline Designed and managed by Culture Sparks for WhiteNOISE can be found at the Supported by Creative Scotland end of this presentation.
  2. 2. AboutWhiteNOISE is a collaboration with the Visual Artssector in Glasgow. Through WhiteNOISE, we areworking with not for profit and commercial Visual Artsvenues, organisations and individuals to provide apicture of AUDIENCES across a range of disciplinesthrough a programme of research. Our researchfindings have established where there is potential foraudience GROWTH and organisational development. @VisArtsGlasgow 2
  3. 3. WhiteNOISE Interviewees1. Mark ONeill (Glasgow Life) 12.Alison Fullerton (WASPS)2. Francis McKee (CCA) 13.Roger Billcliffe3. Katrina Brown (The Common Guild & GI) 14.Natalie McFadyen (Impact Arts)4. Jenny Brownrigg (GSoA) 15.Patricia Fleming5. Elisabeth Gibson (Project Ability) 16.Sarah Munro (Tramway)6. David Watt (GSS) 17.David Cook (WASPS)7. Amanda Dobbratz (Ironbbratz) 18.Lynne McPhee (Glasgow Life)8. Ashley Holdsworth (Make it Glasgow) 19.Dianne Miller (House for an Art Lover)9. Ian Elder (The Lighthouse) 20.Amanda Brown (Glasgow Life)10.Victoria Hollows (GoMA) 21.Toby Webster (The Modern Institute)11.Mungo Campbell (The Hunterian) 22.Kendal Koppe 3
  4. 4. public engagementEveryone is time-starved, and a lot ofour key audience members either haveyoung children or older parents. Thewhole landscape of people’s lives aredifferent. Everyone is flat out. So youhave got to work quite hard for peopleto think, yes, it is [this venue] I amgoing to today. 4
  5. 5. public engagementI have identified the difference of how amember of the public coming into thegallery behaves if it’s staffed or if it’s notstaffed. If it’s not staffed people willoften put their foot in the door andleave. If it is staffed, if somebody is intheir invigilating, they will come in andthey will engage with her and it’s always100% so for us. 5
  6. 6. audienceA curator isn’t bothered about therebeing noise but... the spaces [are] justthe opposite of liveliness that makes youthink you have got to be quiet. It is thatkind of situation where you end upwhispering to someone and you go whyam I whispering? I don’t know what thatis about. 6
  7. 7. glasgowGlasgow, it’s immense in theatre, but the visual arts is a bigone as well. It can link to the history of Glasgow throughCharles Rennie Mackintosh, the Art School, design,Christopher Dresser, all this architecture – there is a hugewealth of it. Glasgow is promoting it in a very tacky way,through Glasgow Style... It is not speaking to the peoplewho are doing it, and understand it. I know people thatare capable of being able to project their design ideas. Ithink it is amazing the city doesn’t actually work with themto do that, to be able to project that in a way that ismodestly ambitious. I think that is what Glasgow is,modest about itself but very ambitious for itself. 7
  8. 8. researchOur reporting is quite onedimensional... we have just got abottom line of figures. They don’t askwho is coming, is it about... we arereaching those people in those verydeprived postcodes or it is just the kindof really motivated people. 8
  9. 9. sectorSense that visual artsare behind other partsof the cultural sector. 9
  10. 10. resources[For training] we don’thave a dedicatedbudget so that’s why ittends to be in house. 10
  11. 11. audiencesSo even we think peoplewho know the buildingreally well don’t know itas well as they think. 11
  12. 12. public engagementI would say there’s a third of the[Glasgow] population who arecompletely disengaged from mostcultural activities. I would say two-thirds probably do have someengagement with art. The peopleengaged with contemporary art will bea small proportion of that. 12
  13. 13. sectorI think the contemporaryvisual arts sector inGlasgow is trulyastonishing, it is sofragile. 13
  14. 14. digitalThere is quite a lot oftechnology out there,which if anything we’rerunning away from at themoment. 14
  15. 15. sectorYou only have to walk around theSouth Side or the West End andlook in people’s front roomwindows to realise that people aregoing out there still buying thestuff, they want to feel part of that,it’s valued. 15
  16. 16. salesThere just doesn’t seem to be aculture of buying contemporarywork [in Scotland]. There is nolocal market [Glasgow], youknow, so in order to kind ofcreate that local market how dowe do it? 16
  17. 17. sectorI think the primary one that Iwould want to get across is thatincredibly fragile but rich ecosystem that survives on almostnothing but is utterly at its bestwhen it is not overly part of largemonolithic organisations, whoeverthey are. 17
  18. 18. interpretationI think there always has been andprobably always will be more of aninterest in the safe traditional forms ofpainting and drawing that peoplerecognise as art and I think when itbecomes more challenging there needsto be more interpretation andeducation. 18
  19. 19. research & public engagementWhere we can afford it we willactually have people standingthere but normally speakingthat will only be for a very fewdays during the course of a runof an exhibition, we can’tsustain it. 19
  20. 20. glasgowGlasgow is quite asocially conservative,with a small ‘c’, city. 20
  21. 21. audiences[It’s] the only [venue] thatteenagers go to in significantnumbers willingly. They’re notjust brought. ...it’s also the onewith the shortest dwell time. 21
  22. 22. public engagementYounger people aremore open tocontemporary art. 22
  23. 23. strategy[Glasgow] used to have a verystrong creative industriesstrategy which didn’tparticularly do crafts, but it diddesign, architecture, film, verywell. 23
  24. 24. programmingThe main issues we have at themoment is that there is lesstemporary exhibitions andtemporary exhibitions alwaysgive people an extra reason togo and visit. 24
  25. 25. researchMost people focus on the numbers,and it is difficult to get anyqualitative feedback, unless we havedone some kind of research orsomeone has attended a course andwe do a post-course evaluationform. It is really difficult to hearwhat people think. 25
  26. 26. resourcesAt the moment I worktwo other jobs to helpthe business, to kind ofhelp cash flow. 26
  27. 27. sectorI think they don’t have a clue what visualarts sector means. I think we in thevisual arts sector and the bureaucratswho work around it tend to uselanguage that doesn’t mean anything toanybody. And I think there’s a habit ofdescribing artists as if they’re a separatepart of society as opposed to beingpeople. 27
  28. 28. digitalAudiences may use the Glasgow Lifesite, I don’t know how much of thattraffic is looking for art exhibitions andhow much of it can be directed beyondtheir own venues. I don’t, at themoment, know of anything that directspeople beyond – even the See Glasgowthing, I don’t think it does. I don’tknow, I never use it. 28
  29. 29. public attitudeI think a lot of people think artists arefinancially successful – either they’re dirt poorand working in a garret, you know in the kindof romantic old version of things, or they’rehyper successful driving black Audis anddrinking champagne every night. You know,there’s very little understanding of it as a sortof normative profession which might be verysimilar to anything else. 29
  30. 30. public engagementI think there’s a massive opportunity andcapacity for a real generational shift in therelationship between audiences and visual artsactivity. You know, 20 years ago the activitywas all hard to find and grass roots andwhatnot and that has changed. There’s been amassive development in Glasgow in particularbut Scotland more generally, but somehow thathasn’t yet broken through to the audience inthe broadest sense... 30
  31. 31. public engagementThe person who is in the space doesn’t look up,doesn’t meet your eye, doesn’t say hello, doesn’t,you know, tell you that there’s a leaflet you canpick up or any of those sorts of things. There’s agreat asset in exhibitions in that they tend to needto have people in the space for security, whichgives you an in – gives you the capacity forsomebody to be there to say hello and make itthat little bit more human and humane than itmight otherwise be. And I think nine times out often that doesn’t happen. 31
  32. 32. public engagementFront of house is massivelyimportant and I think it’sreally un-valued. Not justundervalued, but un-valuedin the visual arts. 32
  33. 33. traditional & digitalI think there’s still an important role forprint. Largely because I think digitalmedia can only reach the people whoengage with it and there still needs tobe some method to get in contact withpeople who don’t and so it’s veryimportant... 33
  34. 34. public engagementFront of house staff are just about the mostimportant thing in the world and we invest,not necessarily financially, but emotionallyand psychologically, hugely in our front ofhouse staff. Getting people here is onething, getting people to come back iswithin our control and capacity and so theidea of making sure that everybody has awarm welcome and a sort of easy visit isabsolutely vital. 34
  35. 35. programming & fundingThe principal weakness for everybody isshort termism. I mean, that appliesparticularly at the moment withCreative Scotland making changes tothe funding cycle and flexible funding,so that is the single biggest weakness.And short termism has a massiveimpact on programming ability. 35
  36. 36. public engagement & researchInvigilators: we have a workforce thatchanges every year, it’s roughly around 25– 30 people. They sign up to invigilate forprojects. We’ve been working ondeveloping their skills within the job, sowe’ve been doing a targeted programme –the main task of the invigilators is really tolook after the work but also to speak to thepublic and feel confident about speaking tothe public. 36
  37. 37. public engagementAnd for the audience ifthe person’s making thatkind of art and they’rethe same age as you, doyou value it more? 37
  38. 38. public engagement...particularly withcontemporary work, youcould argue that there isgoing to be a lot ofpeople looking quitequizzical. 38
  39. 39. researchI suppose the key determinantof success is numbers, and thenit is feedback on thosenumbers, and that is somethingthat we have slowly starteddeveloping, so that is notanalysed yet. 39
  40. 40. researchI gave them the gallery fornothing, but they had toinvigilate because I can’t juststaff for free. And the numberof times I went in there, andthey were doing the old, sittingin a chair and so on. 40
  41. 41. researchAs a customer I don’t liketo be approached withbits of paper. So Iwouldn’t do it tosomebody else. 41
  42. 42. public engagement & researchWe have just recruited some new galleryassistants and they have been selectedfor their customer service background.When I take a turn around the galleries,it is my objective with every interactionwith a customer, to have that kind of“ooh” moment, or that smile which islike, “oh, I never knew that.” 42
  43. 43. public engagementMost galleries, it is just like, mannods to dog. What does thatmean? I think there is a time anda place. Certainly the welcomeand the greet, making you feel thatthere are people there who areinterested... 43
  44. 44. public engagementWords that they [public] would useto describe [Glasgow visual artssector]:Incomprehensible. Traditional.Comforting. Nostalgic. 44
  45. 45. public engagementWe’ve tried subtle, itdoesn’t work, we need touse a sledgehammerapproach to lettingpeople know what’sgoing on. 45
  46. 46. resourcesA question my board has asked:“Is it actually worth us openingon Saturday? That’s payingsomebody for five hours workat minimum wage, is it worth usdoing it?” I’ve argued the casethat yes it is. 46
  47. 47. resourcesBut when it’s volunteersor casual staff coming inon an ad-hoc basis, youcan’t set tasks. 47
  48. 48. digitalWe’re actually not that fussedabout Twitter. None of the staffare advocating that that wouldbe a good idea. It gets raisedand everybody shouts it down,all of our energy really goes intoFacebook. 48
  49. 49. digitalGrid. It makes me angry becausethere’s just so little information togive out, it’s never up to date, thelayout of it I think is just appalling.It’s so unclear and there’s noenergy about it. I don’t think it’shitting any buttons. It’s totallyself-indulgent. 49
  50. 50. programmingWe’ve been trying to build up akind of events programme aroundthe exhibitions because we arevery aware of how static thisbuilding is actually as well as anexhibition space and to kind of addsome life into that... 50
  51. 51. public engagementOur programme is operating at capacity.So we have no interest in recruitingparticipants, it’s recruiting visitors to seewhat we’re doing. But it’s about enteringthem into a dialogue so that we’re notoperating in a bubble. I think there’salways a danger of that if you don’t havethat discourse which is active and verypresent, then you can become quite self-satisfied. 51
  52. 52. researchFront of house have a count ofpeople coming into the buildingbut there is no count after that.Our gallery is manned byvolunteers on a very part-timebasis... 52
  53. 53. researchI think somewheretracking people’smovement around thisbuilding would be really,really interesting. 53
  54. 54. audienceOur audience is a fairlytypical arts audience, youngpeople, student types, aswell as older crowd there aresort of two types of agegroups. 54
  55. 55. public engagementI think it’s like other things.People might be interested insport, for example, but it mayonly be tennis that intereststhem, or football and I think it’sexactly the same with the visualarts. 55
  56. 56. mediaThere is not really a generic... theproblem with Creative Scotland is thatit’s for those in the know. The List... it’sreally hard to find the information unlessyou type in you want to see somethingor if you go alphabetically it’s a very briefdescription with no picture. It’s not veryinteresting looking. It literally is a list. 56
  57. 57. mediaWe are listed on The Grid as a venuebut we haven’t had anything in termsof exhibitions. But that is somethingthat has been at the back of my mind. Ineed to write that down again becauseI keep thinking, ‘Oh yes, The Grid.’ I seethe map and then I don’t get a chanceto.... 57
  58. 58. audienceGeographically it’s a really wide range.I am quite surprised we’ve got achildren’s arts and crafts class on aSaturday and the participants comefrom Lochwinnoch, Motherwell all overthe place. They are not from Glasgow. Iexpected to get a local crowd forsomething that’s a one hour class. 58
  59. 59. strategyDo you have a specific audiencedevelopment plan here?No!Marketing plan?No!Social Media plan?No! 59
  60. 60. digitalOur website’srubbish before youask. 60
  61. 61. collaboration & fundingI suppose the challenges are that a network is quitedifficult to establish and then there’s an awful lot of staffdevelopment time is spent on establishing those networksand it’s not always easy to know who to speak to. So Ithink if there was a collective, I suppose, not exactly acollective database, but something that people could tapinto and they could also input into and there’s informationabout contacts, that it would be easier to source partners.Also in terms of the funding matrix and what’s out there,it’s very difficult for people, particularly at this point intime with trusts and foundations cutting down… 61
  62. 62. collaborationIt was one of thosecompanies, we found outafter the event, hadadopted us for Christmas. 62
  63. 63. public engagementI suppose the target audience are youngerpeople and older people as well because I thinksome of the things that we’re interested in isabout the post-industrial scenario in Glasgowand a lot of the people who historically methad trades that would have been actuallyalmost associated with some of the physicalprocesses that happened, like welding, forexample, and how we might engage some ofthose old men. 63
  64. 64. mediaIts very superficial. It doesnt in any way cover the range anddepths of the things that are on offer. Probably the worstmagazine is the thing that covers the most and theres veryinconsistent, subjective opinions in the reports from peoplewho are not necessarily art specialists, which doesntnecessarily serve anybody particularly well. But I think its acapacity thing... you just need to look at The Herald. TheHerald is a really good example. It used to have a muchstronger visual arts representation. Its the journalist’spreferences, its how the editor chooses to cut and paste it,but when you look at the way youve got music coverage inThe Herald, its massive and theatre coverage is massiveproportionately to art. 64
  65. 65. programming...slick turns people off and it needs tohave – DIY kind of punk ethos of justhappens. What’s that, that’sinteresting, and you go and see it andby the time you’ve gone there, it’sgone. Glasgow should have more co-ordination but it can get a bit toocorporate. We have to guard againstthat. 65
  66. 66. collaboration...a lot of people have ploughedtheir own furrow, especially thevisual arts can be veryfragmented and verycompetitive, rather thancollaborative, I think. 66
  67. 67. collaborationI think of all the sectors the visualarts is the poorest sector. Thetheatres are much moreconnected and so on, and part of itis to do with that fragmentation Italked about and competing ratherthan collaborating. 67
  68. 68. digitalWe need help in the development of digitalpublicity and social media. The potential for usnationally is huge in terms of it. It’s the onlything that makes sense for us and we think thatbecause we’ve reached the scale, we couldreach quite a lot of people, you know. I’vealways thought if there’s 500 artists eachattract 10 people, we’re talking about somelarge numbers and then you know it spreadsout from there. We’ve got a good base to buildon. 68
  69. 69. public engagementI think the lack of investment ineducation – the education sectorwould deny this entirely of course– and lack of media interest arethings that fuel public perceptionthat it’s not as important. 69
  70. 70. sectorWhere do I look for news andinformation? I would tend tobe informed by daily contactwith each organisation, CreativeScotland and their bulletin isnot easy to navigate. 70
  71. 71. researchWe have forms that people canfill in or they can email in stuffand we do get – we’ve got quitegood return rates for that, it’sbeen about a third which we’requite comfortable with. 71
  72. 72. researchThe biggest problem with profile gatheringin terms of visual arts is that because itisnt a bums on seat ticket process, becausewhen people are in a gallery and they dontwant to talk to somebody. I mean if yourelooking at a piece of work which is verymuch a contemplative experience, one onone, you dont want somebody coming upand pestering you. 72
  73. 73. research & programmingIt’s more about evaluation… you have gotto have a clear driven focus of what youwant to achieve. You can’t respond, youreally must not respond to your visitors. Ifyour front of house staff are being rude, ifyou can’t find your way around thebuilding, if the loos are dirty then fine,you’ve to deal with it, and that’s where youwill learn about some of those things. 73
  74. 74. research & programmingI don’t think it would hurt tolisten to your audience and Idon’t think it should ever stopyou putting on something youthink well most of the audiencemight not like this... 74
  75. 75. sectorI think one of the things we’re bad at is saying ishow many Turner prize winners, in a row, will ittake before people in Glasgow know this issomething we’re pretty good at? It’s not anaccident. It’s been 25 years in building that, awide community of agencies and organisations tocreate a community of artists. It’s not any onesingle thing, it’s not the School of Art, it’s not us,it’s a community. And the Council’s beensupportive. But this is something we are worldclass at. 75
  76. 76. sector & funding...the broad assumption [is] that artistswill always work whether they’re paidor not and unfortunately that’sprobably true, but that is takenadvantage of by us as a society becausewe assume that we don’t need to putmoney in and invest in it and that’sshocking actually. 76
  77. 77. digitalI think a really nice friendly website that had everythingart on it would be fantastic, that would help mobiliseaudiences between high profile existing venues andothers. I think the only way that works is if it’s notsiloed into how things are funded. People going to lookat art exhibitions don’t give a shit about whereorganisations’ management structures or funding comesfrom and I think the single most valuable tool we couldhave to promote the visual arts in Glasgow would be atruly cross-sectoral website that shows the breadth andvariety of activity. Where you can find art, basically. 77
  78. 78. sector & digitalI can’t think of a single websitethat I would say was veryimportant to audiences finding outabout Glasgow activity. I think youreally have to push to findanybody. I think Glasgow’s alwaysbeen like that. Come find us.We’re important. 78
  79. 79. public engagement...we would see it as being involved ingetting people to participate who mightnot normally go to a gallery but becausethey’re coming to somebody’sworkspace, they have a nosy about… oh,I can ask questions, it’s less frighteningthan walking into a gallery and having tobe one of the cognoscenti before you getit. 79
  80. 80. public engagementYou know, we do more visual artthan we do ship building now, Ithink we should try and say, weshould be trying to promote it toGlaswegians and this is come andsee world class stuff on yourdoorstep. 80
  81. 81. public engagementAnd there are other art forms, but thevisual arts, I would say, punches wayabove its weight in national andinternational terms. And I think forlocal people it should be about pride inplace, and saying we’re good at this.And do you know about it? This bigsecret on your doorstep, come and seeit... 81
  82. 82. cultural tourismPeople move from London now to be here,and it’s obvious to us but nobody’smarketing that. So why aren’t we tellingEnglish tourists – Scotland with Style andthe Style Mile and come and buy inGlasgow. We’re selling the message thatretail is one of Glasgow’s strengths, but nomessage about the visual arts. 82
  83. 83. cultural tourismI think the tourist people don’t believe incultural tourism and they don’t believepeople will come here for an exhibition,but I know, I myself and others will godown to London and spend – stay in ahotel, do all the travel, restaurants, to goand see. Why – people will come and seestuff here, we’re not marketing that wellenough, and that’s in a Scottish context,never mind in a UK, international. 83
  84. 84. public engagement...the danger is of course it becomesthis little cliquey thing and theneverybody’s excluded, so it’s a finebalance. I think Glasgow as a citymanages that quite well. The peoplewho don’t go at least understand it’snot something deliberately elitist,there’s a slight breaking down of that. 84
  85. 85. programmingI think we could do more... of beingmore co-ordinated, althoughsometimes – there’s the bit which is theunplanned bit, which is the somethingdown a dark close in a back street iswhat attracts people. If everythingbecomes very heavily marketed andrigorously so, and co-ordinated, it couldstifle... 85
  86. 86. resources...my paying job is VenueManagement, whereas the artthat I am making is definitelysomething that I am doing inthe evening. 86
  87. 87. audiencesYes I think my current targetaudience is more of the same.More of everybody please. 87
  88. 88. audiencesI had one afternoon event wherepeople could come and do someknitting and that was lovely, havinga wee left handed 10 year oldladdie being taught to knit by anexperienced granny who doeswork for... 88
  89. 89. public engagement...we do have a lot of repeat customers. A lot ofpeople, who do embroidery, tend to get hookedand it becomes a bit of an addiction, if you like. Asthey get addicted they join the Embroiderer’sGuild and they do the certificate in HandEmbroidery which takes them up to a very highstandard because they love doing it. It is anoccupational hazard of doing craft, in thatwhatever it is that you love doing, chances are thatyou will get addicted to doing it. And there areworse things that you can be addicted too. 89
  90. 90. public engagement...they know that if they could use a crochet hookand a ball of wall, I’m not going to look at them ina funny way. If you craft in public then peoplehave a little hang up about doing something thatexposes them to public attention, potential forridicule and you don’t get that at my place....we should de-stigmatise knitting. Craft in public. 90
  91. 91. audiencesChildren and spinning wheels seem to geton better than adults and spinning wheels.I’ve noticed that. I think it’s the whole handeye coordination thing. When you arequite small it seems to be easier to pick itup because it’s a completely physicalactivity so you don’t think about it, you justdo it. Adults tend to overanalyse it. 91
  92. 92. digital...a lot of my business comes through either myFacebook page, Twitter feed and the website. Iget a lot of queries from my enquiry form onthe website. Queries from people who arelooking for tuition or class. Quite often I’ll getin on Tuesday morning and find a load ofqueries like ‘I googled you’ or ‘I stumbledacross your website because I was looking forsomebody to show me how to thread a sewingmachine’. That simple. 92
  93. 93. digitalI know that Twitter is the new thing butI find it annoying to use. So I try toavoid it because it’s so easy for thingsto get lost in the feed that, unless youare prepared to spend hours and hoursand hours searching for a hashtag thatsuits you, it just vanishes. 93
  94. 94. public engagementThere would be certain pieces ofart, maybe certain individualpieces of art where the reactionwas universally rubbish and otherpieces that people were just sortof oh, and you never could tellwho was going to love what. 94
  95. 95. digitalI do have access to people who haveemailed me and quite a lot of people dodrop me a line and say please put me onyour email newsletter. Fine, except wedon’t have one. I struggled with one of theprogrammes I was recommended to use aswell, so I set up a Mailchimp account and Ican’t work out how to use the thing. 95
  96. 96. organisational developmentDundee and Ireland in particular, were really wellrepresented*. It was almost as though Glasgow ororganisations in Glasgow weren’t interestedbecause they’ve got their network within the city,and it’s a big city and there are a lot of interlinkedorganisations out there and networks for peoplethat know each other, so it was almost as thoughthey didn’t need to look beyond the city boundaryfor support and development.*Voluntary Arts Scotland Conference in Edinburgh 96
  97. 97. strategyWell there’s not really anystrategy so that’s really weak!It’s definitely something thatneeds work and improvement. 97
  98. 98. public engagementI think for places like BuchananGalleries on the escalator orsomething, for us to really putart in normal places. And thenmaybe people would feelconfident to go into art venuesmore. 98
  99. 99. fundingI did have a meeting with CreativeScotland ages ago and found that oneof our major failings is that we don’thave any numbers to back anything upso I’d be interested to know what theythink are the main... because I wouldn’tknow off the top of my head whatthey’d be looking for. 99
  100. 100. digitalIt needs a lot of work[the website]. Itdoesn’t help that I’mtrying to modify thecode myself. 100
  101. 101. audienceIt’s not good. And we’re all misfits in here,that’s part of the beauty of it, so I thinkwe’re trying to find a place where we’recool enough that people – that the regulargallery scenesters come round but thenalso that people, normal kids, feelcomfortable coming too and I don’t thinkwe’re really focusing on getting the publicin just yet because we’re still trying to buildan identity – we are, we do. 101
  102. 102. fundingWill funding issues stop you from doing anyof your plans?Probably not.You’ll just find a way?...we’ve managed to do a lot of things forno money so… as long as we can pay ourrent, we’re good. 102
  103. 103. fundingWill funding issues stop you from doing anyof your plans?Essentially, yes.Which ones?If there’s no support from CreativeScotland, we wouldn’t be able to exist. 103
  104. 104. mediaYeah, we talk to the Skinnyquite a lot. And put things inthe List. Some local radio,Sunny Govan. The Glaswegianactually are really good forwriting weird little stories aboutyoung artists. 104
  105. 105. media...actually I’m continually frustrated whenyou look at the arts section in newspapersand it’s only theatre, or it’s an argumentbetween Damian Hirst and David Hockneyabout who’s whatever. Like there’s actuallythousands of young artists in London thatcould do with some press. So I guess that’skind of like perpetuating the stodginess... 105
  106. 106. audiences...we have this feeling that there’s twokinds of art crowds in Glasgow. There’s likethe cool ones that go to Transmissionopenings and then there are regular artkids that just hang about and feel left out,trying to find a way to be in a place that’snot one where you stand around and lookat who has the best haircut, but it’s like –sorry! Do you know what I mean though,there’s definitely like those two things. 106
  107. 107. public engagementTaxi drivers are always my gauge, youknow, when they say you’re from thesector and culture you know you’rereally winning. And then if they talkabout it in a less hostile manner – overthe years people have got used to thisbeing known as a cultural place. 107
  108. 108. public attitudeI think people think morenegatively of contemporaryvisual art. That taxi driverchats: my five year old could dothat or I could have thought ofthat or that kind of normalthing. 108
  109. 109. fundingHave you ever participated incrowdfunding?Yeah we did. We did Indiegogo* thistime last year to raise the money to buythe materials for the walls on the otherside. We did ok.*’an international crowdfunding site where anyone can raise money for film, music, art, charity,small businesses, gaming, theater, and more’ 109
  110. 110. cultural tourism...if there was a comprehensivearts trail, you know when peopleare coming in and I think it shouldbe at the point of, going to like aVisitors’ bureau, George Square,what’s it called, you know what Imean? 110
  111. 111. cultural tourismWell I think it’s because theyhave a lot of tourists so they’recoming in and they aregenuinely lost. They haven’t aclue where they are going orwhat’s what. 111
  112. 112. digital...maintain our website as much as I can, and thenuse Facebook and Twitter to kind of – well useFacebook to drive people to the website and tonotify them of events that are happening, but thenuse Twitter to kind of put our personality and ourcommunity out there so we tweet different thingsthat these guys are up to or to just chat withpeople, to create that kind of personality online,and then what else is there? We have a couple ofblogs that are for different products that we havedone or are doing. 112
  113. 113. social mediaYeah, a number of them* arereally good at it. ...[he] isamazing at it actually, he canmake six screen prints one dayand have them sold out by thenext day.*independently practising artists 113
  114. 114. resourcesYeah, if there’s an exhibition onthat requires invigilating, it’susually the case where we say topeople in the studio this ishappening, would you mind, orwould you keep an eye out tomake sure nobody’s wanderingthrough… 114
  115. 115. resourcesYes, I’m pretty much allthe staff. Yeah, I’m thecleaner and themaintenance lady andthe... 115
  116. 116. resourcesWhat’s your technologyinfrastructure, like PCs andthings like that?My personal laptop. 116
  117. 117. pricingIt’s interesting because unlikethe other events, the peoplearen’t used to paying forthat, in visual arts, you justwouldn’t ask people for it. 117
  118. 118. WhiteNOISEActivity Summary & Timeline Developing Practice ‘Designing Cultural Sector Mapping & ‘The Common Guild’ IncreasingFebruary Desk Research Events’ Ambition Research presented Scotland2012 (existing data Partnership/Network to sector/network /previous 10 years) event (1) Event with WN Depth Interviews ‘South Block’ Research presented [22 individuals: Research presented to participating Curators, Artists, to sector /network WhiteNOISE venues Marketers, CEOs...] event (2) Defining ‘Visual Engagement’ Glasgow Household Research presented Ambition Scotland Survey / TGI Area to WhiteNOISE Partnership Event Profiling analyses stakeholders with WN March Visitor Research 3 Main Strands 2013/14 11 Glasgow Venues Online/social media CPD Events [1,524 visitors/across analysis [75 orgs] Mobile site create 9 weeks] Network Events con’t
  119. 119. Culture SparksFor more details about WhiteNOISE please contact:Dianne GreigSenior PartnerMarketing & Digital Developmentdianne@culturesparks.co.uk@diannegreigCulture SparksSuite 1/1, 6 Dixon StreetGlasgow G1 4AX+44 (0)141 248 6864@culturesparksculturesparks.co.uk

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