1. essentials MANAGERS’ CORNER TIPS PSYCHOLOGY SELLING SKILLS
“It was when I
started looking out
for everyone else
that I became a
good manager.”
Chatting Up
Success
How one company’s innovative
system is used to share success
throughout the organization
In an innovative series of candid inter-
views with Heartland Payment Systems
reps and sales leaders that began in Sep-
tember 2008, chief sales officer Sanford
Brown talks sales, motivation, opportuni-
ty, and success. “I wanted people to listen
as if they were flies on the wall or hearing
through the door the conversation they
always wanted to hear,” explains Brown.
Dissatisfied with experts who would
come in and explain how to fix what was
broken, Brown wanted to discuss suc-
cesses – why and how they happened.
Realizing that paper lessons from top
management often go unread and emails
get bounced and deleted, he came up
with this concept of a kind of sales “fire-
side chat” to celebrate success throughout
the organization.
He invited 500 of Heartland’s 1,700-
strong sales force to reserve a seat for a
live interview and question-and-answer
session with a top rep. In only eight hours,
the house was filled with people eager to
listen in. “Scarcity of seats seems to make
it more valuable,” Brown notes. But all
the sessions are recorded, so other reps
and managers can hear playbacks at their
own convenience.
JEFF WEINER
The key, Brown emphasizes, is that reps Sanford Brown, chief sales officer,
and managers can hear real success sto- Heartland Payment Systems
ries (including mistakes made along the
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2. ®
way), learn practical lessons, and hear
Blaine Burn, divisional manager, about best practices that can be applied
Heartland Payment Systems
immediately. The candid interview
approach is just one more thing that is
distinctive about the $1.3-billion-a-year
Heartland. All of the firm’s relationship
managers, account managers, territory
managers, district managers, and upper
management, including Brown himself,
are entirely paid on commission, on either
their own sales or those of the teams they
manage. “I wouldn’t be comfortable doing
it any other way,” says Brown. “Having
skin in the game is good.”
A lot of people have done very well at
this game. Record-setting district manager
Blaine Burn kicked off the series with his
leadership-track interview, heard by 125
Heartland managers. Burn left a $50,000
base-and-commission sales job in 2000 at
the age of 25 to take his chances with
Heartland. Eight years later, Burn was
earning a very handsome income and
broke all company records for monthly
sales, despite his Oklahoma territory being
one of Heartland’s smaller markets.
“I was 25 and thought I knew every-
thing,” Burn told his listeners about his
decision to join Heartland with a family
to support. His wife’s family came from a
nonsales background. “They thought you
go into an office for 40 or 50 hours, and if
you want more money you go for over-
time,” Burn remembered. “My mother-in-
hot tips
1. Figure out your weakness
and take corrective action.
2. Nurture the whole team, not
just the top performers.
law asked when I was going to get a real
job, settle down and do something real.”
Burn started out as a relationship man-
ager, working from a home office. He
remembers receiving his first residual
check, for 17 cents, or “14 cents after tax.”
But he was confident there would be
many and much more to come.
Partly at the prodding of his wife, Burn
leased an inexpensive office nearby. “It
was a key to my success. You know when
to work and when to play.” He then decid-
ed to look upward.
“I wanted to move up to management
for all the wrong reasons: title, respect,
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3. essentials MANAGERS’ CORNER TIPS PSYCHOLOGY SELLING SKILLS
“It’s like football. If I build the team and month, and then I created a plan around
that. I did the math, figured out the infra-
focus on each player, hiring and training, structure, and created a lot of little action
plans. I decided I would not teach a big divi-
they will get me to the goal.” sion meeting but would have lots of little
voluntary meetings. We went through some
pain, but we did not let go of the big goal.”
and power. And I made a lot of mistakes forced me to articulate what I was doing.” Burn’s first piece of advice to new man-
at first. I have a big ego. I want to be right In explaining his methods, Burn agers and reps is to simply read the history
all the time, and my ego got in the way. learned what he was still doing wrong of Heartland. “It will give you a chill.
“In the first years I did not hold my ter- and started to improve further. Results When you feel like quitting, you realize
ritory managers to the same standard [I followed. “People tell me if they had my people have gone through bigger things in
hold myself to]. It is like with my children team they would perform well, too. I tell creating this company.”
– they are all different, and I have to han- them, you’re right, you would. It was Second, he urges, “Create a plan you
dle them differently, but there has to be when I started looking out for everyone are in love with and your people are in
the same standard. else that I became a good manager.” love with. Your success will be a byproduct
“There were people I did not talk to The job also became a lot more fun. of that plan. Be flexible. It’s like football.
enough. One older person bullied me Burn’s successful team spends a lot of time It’s all about the time left on the clock. No
and pushed me around. And if I did not together. “I care about them, and I want matter what happens, stick with the plan,
like people personally, I did not spend them to care about me. If they don’t care care about others, and it will work.”
enough time with them. Now we identi- about another team member, I want to Burn took a few questions from the live
fy people who we are not friendly with, know why. If the person is a crook, we will audience at the end of his interview. He told
and we seek to help them out.” get rid of that person. But otherwise, not one questioner that his favorite book, after
Burn now says he was also too judg- caring about other people on the team and the Bible, was Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged.
mental in his early management days. “I avoiding them is not an option.” Mutual To another manager who worried about
judged people on the way they dressed, the caring builds loyalty and allows the team to making his own sales because he could
way they acted, and I made some enemies. share tough, candid conversations. not make a living on overrides, Burn said,
Last sales meeting I looked these people When he loses a top rep to a promo- “Take care of your own numbers, and set
up and apologized to them. My judgments tion, Burn cheers. “That rep is not going your priorities first. Then empower your
were eating me alive. Now when we are to work for me forever,” he concludes. team members to get the answers they
getting down on somebody at a meeting,
we point it out, ask if we can help that per-
son in some way, and if not, we move on.”
He had to learn how to deal with disap-
practical wisdom
pointments in his new position. “There 1. Transparent information empowers the sales team.
were times I thought of throwing in the
2. Success and stories of success spread more success.
towel. I was being crushed by my plan.”
He had a good prior year, and his new 3. The team is stronger when members work together, rather
plan was built on that success. “Things
than compete for the top slot.
were not turning out well. I felt I couldn’t
sell and that they were going to fire me.” When pressed to meet plan, Burn used need. Don’t fish for them, teach them to
He tried to resign, but his superior told to push his top producers harder because he fish. Listen to them. Ask how you can help
him to shut up and take some advice. knew they could do it. But there was a draw- them, but also how they can help you.”
So Burn met with Brown and other back: “They were withdrawing from me.” And don’t love just your top producers,
Heartland execs to focus on executing a The harder he pushed, the less satisfac- love the whole team, especially the strug-
new plan. “I loved planning, but I was tory the results. Now he reminds the stars glers. “You hired them, now love them
doing it all wrong. I focused on my goal, that they know what they are doing and into success. You don’t need more peo-
and if I fell short I felt terrible.” Brown asks how he can help. “They produce ple, you need to help the people you got.”
urged Burn to build and then work with more, and we have a better relationship.” For new managers struggling with time
the team. Burn got the message: “It’s like And Burn concentrates on reps who are management, Burn was blunt: “Compart-
football. If I build the team and focus on struggling. “If you beat them up and run mentalize your time, including time to get
each player, hiring and training, they will them down, it works for a while, but less away. Set expectations. You cannot be all
get me to the goal.” and less, until they stop listening.” things to all people. Set times to help your
The big change was planning and Brown praises Burn for planning proac- reps, and tell your reps when it is OK to call.”
focusing on the team. “If you put the plan tively, rather than by the seat of his pants as He gave one final tip to a novice – and
to work, you can accomplish amazing former top reps often do. Burn responds perhaps reluctant – manager: “Do your
things.” One pivotal point came when that Heartland is a great place to be reward- job because you love it and want to do it.
Burn appointed his first territory manager, ed for being first. “I declared [that my team] Don’t do anything against your will.”
and he had to train the new leader. “He would be the first to hit $250,000 in a – HENRY CANADAY
REPRINTED WITH PERMISSION FROM SELLING POWER MAGAZINE, JANUARY/FEBRUARY 2009 ISSUE