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Insight on Coaching
Coaching for a Promotion Transcript
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Time Speaker Transcript
0:24 Tom Floyd Hello everyone and welcome to Insight on Coaching.
Insight on Coaching explores the many facets, flavors and sides of the emerging
professional coaching field.
I'm Tom Floyd, I'm the CEO of Insight Educational Consulting and your host for
today's show.
This week our topic is Coaching for a Promotion.
We'll talk about the stresses of managing a promotion. We'll provide a big picture
overview of how to go about getting a promotion. We'll talk about some of the
challenges that can arise before, during and after a promotion.
And of course we'll talk about the work that professional coaches are doing in guiding
individuals during and after a promotion.
With me today to explore this topic are four guests. Let me give you a quick
overview of who we have with us today.
Our first guest, Fernan Cepero, is a recipient of the 2007 Future HR Leader Awards
by Human Capital Magazine and is a thought leader in the area of human resources,
empowerment and organizational development.
Fernan serves as vice president of human resources for the YMCA of Greater
Rochester and is a member of the Society for Human Resource Management
(SHRM) Organizational Development Special Expertise Panel.
He is on the faculty of several of colleges including Roberts Wesleyan College,
Monroe Community College and the University of Phoenix.
He’s also authored a chapter in Linkage, Inc.’s \"Best Practices in Organization &
Human Resources Development Handbook”, which provides a high-level, detailed
look on Xerox’s Empowered Work Groups Initiative.
Welcome to the show Fernan.
1:49 Fernan Cepero Thank you. Glad to be here.
1:50 Tom Floyd Our next guest, Jane Cranston, is the managing director and owner of Executive
Coach NY.
As an executive and career coach, Jane works with success-driven executives and
professionals who want to take their careers to the next level, earning a better title,
more money, plum assignments and increased recognition.
Jane brings to her coaching over 20 years of senior corporate experience and
training as an educator and as a psychotherapist.
Jane started her first career in the fashion and retail world which she spent eight
years holding several managerial and executive positions for such companies such
as Liz Claiborne and Banana Republic.
Jane is the author of many articles on workplace issues and job search skills. She
has been cited in Newsday and has appeared on CNN.
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Welcome to the show, Jane.
2:33 Jane Cranston Thank you. My pleasure.
2:35 Tom Floyd I just realized Jane I got your company name wrong. Executive Coach New York,
correct?
2:38 Jane Cranston No. Executive Coach NY, you were right.
2:41 Tom Floyd NY? I was correct.
2:43 Jane Cranston You were.
2:44 Tom Floyd Well it's Monday morning and I'm still having my coffee here. So that's my excuse for
it and I'm sticking to it!
Well our third guest, Anne Loehr, has been coaching entrepreneurs, corporate
leaders, and individuals for more than 20 years in the process of moving to the next
level of sustainable success.
A partner with Riverstone Endeavors, LLC, an organizational-development firm in
Washington, D.C., Anne specializes in the hospitality industry, partnering with clients
such as The Away Network, OARS, International Hotel Marketing Services, The
Nature Conservancy, and Carlson Destination Marketing Services.
Anne recently co-authored “A Manager’s Guide to Coaching: Simple and Effective
Ways to Get the Best out of Your Employees” published by the American
Management Association and now available on Amazon.
She also has written monthly business columns for national publications such as
Travel News and the Washington Business Journal.
Welcome to the show, Anne.
3:38 Anne Loehr Thank you so much.
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3:40 Tom Floyd And last, but not least our fourth guest, Susan Whitcomb, brings over 20 years of
experience to the table when it comes to landing a new job or a promotion.
She trains executive leadership and career coaches through her organizations, the
Leadership Coach Academy and the Career Coach Academy.
Susan is also the author of six careers books, including 30-Day Job Promotion: Build
a Powerful Promotion Plan in a Month and the best-selling \"Magic Series\" published
by JIST, including Interview Magic, Resume Magic and award-winning Job Search
Magic.
She has been a careers columnist and featured chat guest for Monster.com and
America Online and, as an industry expert, has been cited in U.S. News & World
Report, CBS Marketwatch.com, the Dow Jones' National Business Employment
Weekly, and numerous national publications.
Susan is also the author of a 400-page career coaching reference accompanying the
Certified Career Management Coach program offered through Career Coach
Academy.
Welcome to the show, Susan.
4:37 Susan Thank you Tom.
Whitcomb
4:39 Tom Floyd Well as we do with each show, I'd like to begin by sharing some data that our
research team pulled together to set the stage.
Now according to an April 17th, 2007 article in Personnel Today Magazine
titled “Manage a Major Promotion” HR consultancy DDI (Development
Dimensions International) concludes that “Managing a major promotion is
second only to divorce in terms of life stress,” as supported by DDI research.
Simon Mitchell, a director at DDI, advises that if you are about to or are
going through a promotion, you need to anticipate this stress. Your
organization should help you cope with the changes in your new role,
with minimum disruption.
DDI found that one-fifth of first-line and senior-level leaders struggle to
adjust to getting work done through others.
According to DDI's survey, just one in three leaders says their company
provides little or very poor support to help them make the mental shift
required for a big promotion
Susan, I would like to kick off our show with you today.
Really just a big picture question about some of the data from DDI.
Is this article true?
Is managing a promotion second only to divorce in terms of life stress in your
opinion?
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5:59 Susan I think you'll probably get different responses from different people on that.
Whitcomb
I think that because we spend so much time in the workplace that yes, those things
that are happening in the workplace are going to be very stressful for us or for the
people that are getting promoted.
I think a lot of it has to do with the culture of the organization.
There are some cultures that are very aware of the support that's needed for the
person that's being promoted. But by and large, my experience has been that you
are sort of hung out by yourself and expected to figure out all of these new skills and
abilities that are required for a successful promotion on your own.
I think it's really up to the individual being promoted to be really proactive and to look
for mentors. A
nd to really open up the lines of communication with their manager about what the
expectations are because there are a lot of expectations but they're not spoken in
many cases.
7:01 Tom Floyd So it sounds like the stress isn't just before they get the promotion or wondering if
they're going to get the promotion.
It's actually after they've gotten the promotion the stress is actually continuing?
7:12 Susan Yeah, I think so. Now you've got to deliver big time.
Whitcomb
In many cases, people that have been promoted have been promoted because
they've been these great individual contributors who have really managed to get
things done on their own strengths. It's sort of the Lone Ranger in some cases.
When they get promoted into, let's say, a Director or V.P. role all of a sudden their
individual contributing skills are not the most important thing.
Now the most important thing is that they have to be able to pull a team together and
get much more done through all of these people.
So if they haven't really been honing management skills and team development skills
along the way, they can really find themselves in this almost identity crisis in terms of
who am I and how to do I get things done.
As well as just the reality of the pressures of bringing in the business or meeting the
deadlines.
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8:10 Tom Floyd It's almost like they're finding out some of the skills that served them really well when
they were individual contributors, suddenly they're promoted and there's a whole
different set of skills that are required.
Suddenly, if it's managing people or something like that, it might be unfamiliar
territory for them.
8:25 Susan Absolutely. Yeah.
Whitcomb
8:27 Tom Floyd Okay. Well big picture question. This is definitely a big picture umbrella type of
question but in your opinion as well, in today's environment what does it take to get
ahead in the corporate world?
Is it certain actions, is it certain traits, is it certain personality types?
8:46 Susan That's a broad question. If I had to pick a couple of things, I would say it really takes
Whitcomb the sense that you are the one that's in charge and not expecting that HR is going to
do it, your coach is going to do it or your manager is going to do it for you.
You really have to be the one that takes hold of the reigns and says “this is where I
want to go.”
And have a vision of what you want the future to look like.
Then be able to communicate that to your managers and to the powers that be.
So I think really having that individualistic, I'm in charge of my life, internal locus of
control sometimes they are referred to. So that's one piece.
I think another piece that's really important, especially the higher up you go in the
organization, is to really start looking broadly at the global organization and how you
fit into all of those cogs. Not making it just about me and my personal agenda.
But making it about the corporate agenda and what's going to be best overall for the
organization.
Part of that is really reaching out to the other department heads. Having that intra-
network. A lot of people think about networking and they think about externally from
the organization. But internally making sure that you have good solid relationships
with the VP of Finance, the VP of Operations and the VP of Marketing, if indeed
you're getting promoted into that sort of a role in a different discipline.
So really looking out beyond yourself and taking the time to reach out and do that,
which is challenging because the expectations are so high and you get so sucked
into trying to make things work and deliver the results that sometimes the network
suffers as a result of that.
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10:39 Tom Floyd So it sounds like, just to summarize, it's several things in terms of what it's taking to
get ahead.
It's being proactive.
It's also making sure that the person is kind of seeing the big picture overview within
the company. And seeing how they can fit in and add value to the overall
organization as a whole.
It also sounds like just being able to really connect with people and building
relationships. Whether it's with other Vice Presidents in the company or people in
other departments, if there is a specific department that you're targeting.
Things like that.
11:10 Susan Absolutely. I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the value and
Whitcomb then the relationship piece.
And always looking at all of those people that you're interacting with in terms of
what's in it for them, what's really going to be a value for them in terms of us having a
really strong working relationship.
11:26 Tom Floyd Okay, got it.
Another question, what are the typical motivators for someone to want to get a
promotion today?
Are they necessarily the same motivators as they were ten years ago?
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11:41 Susan I don't know that I have data on something like that. I can speak from experiences.
Whitcomb
It seems that most people sometimes approach a promotion because they think, I
need more money, and that's certainly the case with economic times.
I need more money is often the first motivator.
I think the other motivator that is sometimes there is sort of this ego piece. I have an
ego and I want to be growing my career. So there's that aspect of it.
I think the thing that's probably going to be the most valid, I don't know if valid is the
right word I'm looking for, but the most impressive to the people that are going to
promote you in terms of the motivators is what I call the “itch.”
The “itch” is really just that sort of innate, human desire that all of us have to grow
and stretch and continue to do something new and bigger. Because if not, we start
getting stagnant and getting frustrated.
I think if the powers that be, those people who can have the ability to promote you,
see that the reason you want to keep moving up is not just a monetary thing and not
just an ego thing. Instead, it kind of encompasses all of those, and especially with
the “itch,” that they're going to feel a lot more comfortable about your motives for
wanting to get promoted.
I think those three all play together, with “itch” being awfully important.
13:13 Tom Floyd I really like the way you described that.
13:14 Anne Loehr Tom, this is Anne.
13:16 Tom Floyd ...as an “itch.” It almost sounds like that motivation definitely has a lot to do with that,
too.
That motivation to grow and that motivation to succeed.
So I really like that term.
I'm definitely going to remember that. Jane I'd like to turn to you—
13:29 Susan I think Anne had a comment. Ann did you have something?
Whitcomb
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13:31 Anne Loehr Yeah. Tom, this is Anne. I just had a quick one.
I don't have any data with me either but all the research that I've been seeing and
actually seeing it in organizations.
People are really looking for now in terms of Generation Y and the Millennials is what
Susan was saying about the “itch.”
Their number one reason right now to be promoted is they want to be developed.
So they don't really care so much about the money, although Susan did say it's very
important in today's economic times.
But for them, especially Generation Y, it is about development and about growing.
So we're going to see that more and more as the Generation Y is becoming 30 and
40, and there's going to start to be a clash of that soon.
But for people who are managing the Generation Ys and the Millennials, that is really
what they're going to be looking for.
14:17 Tom Floyd So that actually is a question that I was going to ask later in the show. Because it
constantly amazes me how much generational issues come into many of the
conversations that we have on this particular show.
Would you say then that the motivators for Generation X, for example, or Baby
Boomers, tend to slightly be different?
Are they as developmental focused or do they kind of come back more to money and
ego and things like that?
14:43 Anne Loehr This is Anne again. I would say exactly as you said, Generation Y is the first
generation that we're seeing that is really more focused on being developed, learning
new things, growing.
They have no problems with switching jobs after a year and a half or two years
because it's going to give them the opportunity to grow.
Whereas Baby Boomers and even Generation X, are a bit more linear.
They're not necessarily after the money, but they are much more in terms of they
want to make a difference, they want to grow perhaps within their family, within their
community and make a difference that way.
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15:16 Tom Floyd Interesting. Have you found in your experience, does Generation Y, because this
topic is related to Gen Y and the Millennials have come up as well, do you tend to
find that they have unrealistic expectations about getting promotions at all?
So perhaps getting them very quickly after they've been there for six months or
anything like that?
Does that come up or show up at all?
15:40 Anne Loehr I think it depends on how you define expectations and unrealistic expectations.
For a Baby Boomer it is unrealistic to think that they're going to get a promotion in
two years.
But for Millennials and for Generation Y, they don't see it as unrealistic.
They think “I've got the capabilities. I can do it, why can't I get promoted?”
And that's where the conflict is happening.
15:59 Tom Floyd And what are some of the best ways to manage that conflict particularly around a
promotion?
16:05 Anne Loehr There's a number of ways to do it.
As Susan was saying, managing expectations is very important, assuming that it's a
Baby Boomer who is the manager at this point managing a young Millennial or a
Generation Y, it's managing expectations.
It's allowing them to grow but also being realistic of here's where you can go. “We're
going to allow you to grow this much. You can grow here and here and here and this
is the agenda that you're going to be using to do it.”
Just letting them know ahead, this is the way it is. If you want it, great, we want to
work with you. And if you don't want it, then let's figure out something else.
16:39 Tom Floyd Okay. Jane, I'd like to turn to you next.
Now just in general, we've already talked about this a bit in terms of people who are
motivated really have that passion to want to grow.
But anything you would add in terms of the characteristics that employers look for in
promotable people, so to speak?
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16:58 Jane Cranston I think there are a number of things.
I think that being smart and I'm talking about street smart, book smart, work smart.
This is a world that demands that people have a high intelligence level. Partially
because there are so many changes going on.
So are you intellectually flexible as well as flexible in your attitudes towards things so
when we put you in a department?
Because when we're talking about a promotion, we're not necessarily saying that
you're being promoted in a linear way.
You could be moved to a completely different area. And suddenly, can you pick up
the basics of that area very quickly?
17:45 Tom Floyd So it sounds like adaptability to change is certainly something that would jump out to
folks, to people?
17:49 Jane Cranston Yes. And I think that's a big issue today.
We all talk about change but most people hate change.
They like change in other people but they don't really want to change.
But there are people out there who are quite good at it and really generate that kind
of energy that says “yes, I am willing to change. I will go into an organization maybe
where I don't know absolutely everything and I will lead people who know more than I
do in certain areas.”
18:19 Tom Floyd With my change management hat on, I'm definitely smiling.
It's interesting the ability to accept change and kind of evolve with it also comes up a
lot.
Actually, I had a conversation once with Carolyn Kepcher when she was still on The
Apprentice.
One of the questions that I asked her is “the folks that won The Apprentice -what are
the traits that they had? Do you notice certain consistencies?”
And her response was that honestly the people that do well on the show The
Apprentice, are those who can quickly change and can adapt very quickly and on the
fly.
They're leaders but they know how to be a part of a team as well.
They can take all of those different changes and things coming at them.
So it's interesting how that comes up.
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19:00 Jane Cranston So they didn't care what the assignment was.
They figured they'd do well no matter what, whether it was selling flowers or doing an
event or whatever.
They always performed well because they didn't get bogged down in the details of
the assignment.
They looked at the big picture, which is, “I have to win this.”
19:18 Tom Floyd Exactly.
And they kept their mind and their focus on the prize, so to speak.
Another question for you and this is one that I get asked a lot in my professional life
and my personal life by friends and colleagues.
Should people feel comfortable promoting themselves in terms of highlighting why
they feel they should be promoted?
19:40 Jane Cranston I think you have to promote yourself.
I don't think this is creating a banner and putting it on your office door.
But I think there's a certain amount of promotion that has to be done.
Really what I talk with my coaching clients about is that your signature has to be on
everything you do. I'm saying that people would know, when they heard a
presentation being done.
Regardless of who the person is that's actually saying it, they'd say “wait a minute,
that's Bill's work. I know that's Bill's work and getting credit for it.”
So I think there's a big part of that.
The other place where I think people really down play themselves is formal
performance evaluations.
I see clients who don't write them, write them at the last minute and don't take the
time to sit down and say “wait a minute, what did I do for this organization in the last
year?”
Dollarize it, quantify it so that in fact somebody can say “wow, he or she really did
contribute this year.”
I think that's how you self promote.
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20:45 Tom Floyd Interesting. In some of the performance management work that our company does,
you will also see some situations where somebody particularly folks from Generation
Y will rank themselves really high on their assessment but they can't provide
examples.
So it's “I'm off the chart in all these areas. Perfect in every single skill, so much that I
should be the CEO” - but no examples.
Do you ever see that, too?
21:10 Jane Cranston Yes. I have seen that, it's a type. I don't think it's specific to a generation.
But there is a generation who were told they were wonderful at everything they did
from the day they went to preschool all the way through.
That's not the way the world is. We all could be better at things. So I think there's a
balance.
Also I think you have to look at cultures. I work with certain organizations where self-
promotion is seen as a very negative thing, you're seen as not a team player if you
do that.
So that has to be a little different.
There are other places where you really have to be pretty overt about it otherwise
you will get lost in the shuffle.
21:54 Tom Floyd Okay. Got it.
Fernan, I'd like to go ahead and loop you in the conversation.
What are your thoughts so far? Anything that you would add?
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22:01 Fernan Cepero Yes. I would with respect to self-promotion.
One of the things that I speak with my employees with when they come to me as far
as “I want to get promoted,” is I talk to them in terms of think outside of the box.
Because I see the typical list of this is where I worked. Then I go back to them and
say what did you do or what were your accomplishments, what were your
contributions?
What I find quite often is that most people don't stop to think about what they did to
contribute.
They want to talk about where they worked as an event and they're hoping that leads
them to a promotion. I have them talk to about what is it that you did that contributed
to the success or the organization of the department that you worked in.
I also talked to them about what is your plan should you get the promotion? What's
going to happen in the 30, 60, 90 days after that?
I do that because many people are expending their energies for the promotion event.
Then the promotion happens and “oh gosh, what do I do from this point on?”
So I have them think about what you're going to do if you get the promotion.
You would use that in your interview for a potential promotion or as you're marketing
yourself to another organization or to another department.
You need to think beyond the event of the promotion itself.
I think many people that I have talked to are stuck in “I have to work towards the
promotion,” but are not thinking beyond that.
23:37 Tom Floyd It sounds like it's quantifying it. “This is exactly what I've done,” back to that piece.
But also it's really having that vision and sort of saying, “okay, this is what I will do
when I do advance to this position, X, Y and Z.”
23:50 Fernan Cepero Absolutely, absolutely.
It's about having the vision and asking yourself what's fulfilling to me.
“How am I going to utilize my skills, competencies and attributes for that next
assignment?”
“How am I going to bring that forward should I land in that particular seat?”
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24:07 Tom Floyd Well another big picture question. It's actually one that somebody, a friend of mine in
my personal life, said “make sure you ask this question.”
I don't know the answer to this question. It's somebody who is actually in their job
search right now and kind of struggling with some of the things going on in the
economy right now.
The question really is, in your opinion is this year's economy and pretty much
recession I think in the mind of a lot of people, is that going to have an impact on
promotions and other advancement opportunities in the workplace, in your opinion?
24:41 Jane Cranston This is Jane. I would say not is it going to, it is having an impact.
Jobs are being eliminated.
I'm in New York City where Wall Street has been hit very, very hard.
The jobs have not only been eliminated but people are not being replaced.
So you don't get a promotion but you get more work.
25:02 Anne Loehr This is Anne. What I would say to that is that I agree with what Jane said.
But there is an opportunity, though, for someone for self-promotion to say, “okay,
here I'm going to be doing all of this.”
And at the end of it, negotiate 60 day, 90 day, some kind of salary increment if you
can. Use that opportunity as a benefit.
25:22 Tom Floyd So it definitely is having an impact and there are fewer opportunities available than
there have been previously?
25:30 Anne Loehr Yes.
25:31 Jane Cranston Less but there are still opportunities.
As I say, I have yet to hear a leader say “I have too many good people hanging
around here.”
25:42 Tom Floyd Got it. I'm hearing the music for the first commercial break. Let's go ahead and go
on pause.
Stay tuned everyone, more from Insight on Coaching when we return.
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28:07 Tom Floyd Welcome back to Insight on Coaching, I'm Tom Floyd.
Today the topic is Coaching for a Promotion.
With me are Fernan Cepero, Vice President of Human Resources for the YMCA of
Greater Rochester New York, Jane Cranston, Managing Director and owner of
Executive Coach NY, Anne Loehr, partner with Riverstone Endeavors LLC and co-
author of A Manager's Guide to Coaching, Simple and Effective Ways to Get the Best
out of Your Employees, and Susan Whitcomb, President of the Career Coach
Academy and Leadership Coach Academy and author of 30 day Job Promotion,
Build a Powerful Promotion Plan in a Month.
In this segment of the show, I'd like to focus on some common challenges and pitfalls
that can occur in adjusting, managing or preparing for a promotion.
Some more data to kick us off here.
According to the 2007 Manage a Major Promotion article referenced earlier
in our show from Personnel Today Magazine, there are several challenges
and pitfalls that can arise.
One of the most common pitfalls is finding you can't adapt your mindset
to your new role. A major promotion usually involves taking on vast new
responsibilities. The skills you need and how your time is allocated to
certain tasks will alter significantly.
Avoid falling foul of organizational politics. This requires you to recognize
that your former peers will see you differently and they might even be
jealous. If that's the case, cultivate a new peer group. Building up your
new network will help you cope with this.
Realize that your primary responsibility is to develop your team by
creating a framework and giving them direction, so you will be able to
spend more time thinking strategically and devote more time to coaching
From another article According to Tech Republic writer John McKee in his
August 9th, 2007 article, “Pigeonholing can kill your chances for promotion.”
“But at some point, you need to adapt and move away from being
regarded as “the” expert to one who is able to help others to become
experts as well. If you don’t, you’ll get pigeonholed. The company
bosses will be concerned about taking you out of such an important role
with no one else able to fill it afterward. You’ll be held back because
you’re too good at what you do. So start developing your replacement
and make a point of showcasing him/her whenever you can. Let
everyone see that you can move up with little disruption. And it shows
that you’re good at developing others to move up as well. Bosses like
that in an executive.”
“Bottom line: To move up the ladder, you need to be able to rally people
behind your vision and state your case crisply. This applies to those
below you and those above you. And the ones above you are the
decision makers. If you really want that promotion, learn to match your
communication style to that of the decision makers. Trying to show them
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“a better style” will only result in frustration.”
Well Fernan, I'd like to start with you for this segment.
Can you speak to us about the challenges of adapting to a new mindset once you
land in the role that Personnel Today magazine refers to?
31:10 Fernan Cepero Yes.
What I have seen is when somebody is promoted they're very good, as we
mentioned in the previous segment, of managing change for others but not managing
change for themselves.
They need to start with the change management process even before they get
promoted.
As they are thinking about getting promoted, as they're thinking about their next
assignment, think about what that's going to mean to them personally.
As far as changing and adapting their style, as you mentioned, to that new
assignment.
An example I can think of is moving into a role in Finance where previously to that
they were in Human Resources.
One of the challenges I would coach them on is have you learned to speak the
language of Finance? Have you sought out a mentor from somebody other than the
career path that you're on right now?
In other words, again I challenge them to get somebody or align yourself with
somebody who's not in the same capacity or same job function that you're in.
If you're looking to move into a promotion climate into Finance for example, find
yourself a mentor in that career field.
So you can get to understand what are expectations, what is it that I need to do, what
is it that I need to learn to prepare myself for that change.
Preparation is key.
So once you land in that role or in that assignment, you're better able to facilitate and
manage through the change management process more effectively and efficiently.
Rather than getting there and then trying to figure out “what is it that I have to do
next.”
33:01 Tom Floyd It kind of sounds like too, really seeking out using the example that you used, moving
from HR to Finance, somebody who is already working in this space.
It's almost like you have a subject matter expert in your own back pocket, which is
almost like a security blanket, so to speak.
How I think that would make me feel? I’d definitely feel a little bit safer.
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33:23 Fernan Cepero In a way it actually makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable.
Being uncomfortable is okay because the security blanket would, for me, be “I seek
out a mentor who is in Human Resources. They can speak my language, they can
understand where I'm coming from.”
Get yourself a mentor who is not in the career that you're currently in.
If you're looking to Finance or maybe even Marketing, get yourself a mentor that's
going to ask you the tough questions.
What is it that you think that you're bringing to the table?
What are the things and skill sets that are missing?
What are the competencies that are missing?
So it's going to make you think and prepare as opposed to somebody that you're
already comfortable talking with.
I like that uncomfortableness to prepare somebody.
34:12 Tom Floyd So it's really stretching people out of their comfort zones.
And in the process of doing that, though it might be painful for them at first, it actually
can result in a lot of good things in the long run.
34:22 Fernan Cepero Exactly because I tell them better to have the pain as you're preparing than to have
the pain once you get there.
34:28 Tom Floyd Okay. One of the other challenges that came up was organizational politics, another
topic that comes up a lot on the show.
Susan, I'd like to direct this question to you.
Once someone has been promoted, what challenges does he or she typically face?
Let's use co-workers who were formerly peers but who are not direct reports as an
example.
What are some of the situations or challenges that can come up in that scenario?
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35:01 Susan I'm thinking immediately of someone that I was coaching not too long ago who was
Whitcomb very much friends with someone else.
Then she got promoted and all of a sudden the person that she was now managing
started talking about her and started getting quips going against her.
What I thought was wonderful about that, and I think this can generalize to any
situation, is that all of those things that happen are just wonderful opportunities for
the person to say “I'm going to turn this problem into a possibility. I'm going to find
new ways to be able to stretch and grow my leadership skills.”
Whatever it is, whatever politic, whatever situation that comes up, it's just an
opportunity for the person to start looking at “how can I stretch?”
“This has been put in my road, in my path so I'm able to increase my leadership skills
in some way.”
In most cases, what they need to do is really have very direct conversations with
people.
Focus the attention not on them self or even the person that's causing the problem,
but to focus the group on this is what we're trying to accomplish as a team.
This is where we are going. This is the vision and this is what it's going to take to get
there.
So focusing more on those positive things.
At some point, yes there may need to be some kind of courageous direct
conversation with the person that might be causing trouble.
In general, it's just a great place to stretch those leadership skills.
36:40 Tom Floyd Do you try to avoid the conversation and focus on the positives?
By avoiding the conversation, I mean-- my instinct would be to sit down with the
person, if it was the former friend or still current friend, hopefully at least. Sit down
and say “hey what's up? I'm kind of hearing this in the halls, you're a little distant.”
Do you still have that conversation or do you focus on the positives and hope that
that behavior will change as a result of that?
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37:08 Susan I think you need to play that carefully and just watch how things play out.
Whitcomb
I think it's probably going to be at some point you're going to have to have the
conversation, though. And probably sooner rather than later so that you don't let
things get farther than they need to get.
To do it in a really respectful way that just says “relationship is important.”
Also looking at where we're trying to go with this organization on a broader scale and
recognizing that that vision for this organization is above my agenda or above
anybody else's agenda.
“This is what I need from you to be able to be a part of that” and encourage them to
want to get on board and move forward with that.
I think if you get into too many details that sometimes that can suck you into a place
that you don't need to be as a leader.
38:08 Tom Floyd Understood.
38:08 Susan Maybe some other people have some other thoughts on that?
Whitcomb
38:12 Tom Floyd Another slant, and I'll pose this question to the entire group, another slant on the
political angle.
The Tech Republic article referenced as well the importance of somebody who got
promoted to build a new network or expand his or her existing network with new
peers at their level.
So as they go about building that network, are there any typical challenges or
landmines to look out for?
Are there politics at that level also?
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38:42 Susan Most assuredly there are going to be politics at that level as well.
Whitcomb
I'm thinking again of another client that we were coaching together.
His goal was to really reach out and develop those relationships just as you had
mentioned.
His goal was really to be able to go and take that person out to lunch.
And yet, it sounded almost too pointed to just pick up the phone and say “hey I'd like
to take you out to lunch.”
Instead what he did is he just very carefully and strategically listed all of the new
director level people that were going to be within his network.
He found ways to touch base; pick up the phone and just say “I just wanted to
introduce myself. I'm the new Director of such and such,” and have a conversation.
Then from that conversation, eventually then he was able to invite them to coffee or
breakfast or something.
So that there was a greater face-to-face kind of connection as opposed to just
jumping right in and saying “hey, let's go to lunch.”
It was done, I think, very politically sensitively. I guess is the word I'm looking for.
39:49 Tom Floyd So it sounds like it was a softer approach to it.
It's not like he just went in and bulldozed them. “Hey we're going to lunch now!”
39:54 Susan “Hey we're going to have a relationship, let's get started!”
Whitcomb
39:54 Tom Floyd It's kind of fragile and sensitive on their radar. Anything anybody else would add?
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40:04 Jane Cranston This is Jane.
I always think about and encourage people to observe without prejudice.
So when you're first in it, sit back and watch what's going on.
Not using your former lens and not using the lens you're going to think you have.
Just what is going on here?
Also I would caution people reaching out too much might not-- you need the people
in your camp, the people that are working for you and around you. I would focus on
them first.
And then I would try to get on projects with other people in the organization.
I always find that working with someone is the best way to really get to know them
rather than having meals with people.
40:50 Tom Floyd Okay. I'm hearing the music for the next commercial break, let's go ahead and go on
pause.
Stayed tuned everybody, more from Insight on Coaching when we return.
43:32 Tom Floyd Welcome back to Insight on Coaching, I'm Tom Floyd.
For those of you just getting tuned in today, today the topic is Coaching for a
Promotion.
With me are Fernan Cepero, Jane Cranston, Anne Loehr and Susan Whitcomb.
In our last segment I like to discuss the work coaches are doing with folks as they
guide them and manage them through the promotion process and certainly after the
promotion has occurred as well.
Some more data to quickly set the stage.
According to the June 15, 2007 issue of Management Issues magazine, the most
powerful rules of relationships are often the ones that are unwritten. Unwritten rules
will allow you to advance where as often time written rules will only tell you what you
can or can not do. For instance, following company rules to the letter will not
necessarily to move up the ladder but having the trust of your superior will. Writer
Patricia Suldaddy [phonetic] discusses five invisible rules of success including results
matter but relationships matter more, develop a strategic frame of reference,
package yourself to stand out and fit in, promote thyself and grant yourself
permission.
According to the June 15th, 2007 issue of Management Issues Magazine,
“The most powerful rules or relationships are often the ones that are
unwritten. Unwritten rules will allow you to advance whereas oftentimes
written rules will only tell you what you can or cannot do.”
For instance, following company rules to the letter will not necessarily
allow you to move up the ladder, but having the trust of your superior will.
Writer Patricia Soldati discusses 5 invisible rules of success:
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Results Matter, But Relationships Matter More
Develop a Strategic Frame of Reference
Package Yourself to Stand Out - and Fit In
Promote Thyself
Grant Yourself Permission
Well Anne I'd like to start with you to kick off our last segment of our show today.
First question, when we're talking about the coaching work that you or others do
specific to promotions, are we talking about coaching as a skill in terms of helping
newly promoted individuals develop this skill providing coaching and feedback to
direct reports, etc?
Or are we talking about coaches as individuals or professionals?
In other words, specific people who focus solely on helping individuals land new
promotions and other advancement opportunities?
We're talking about both. There's a role for both.
46:03 Anne Loehr
Definitely people might need an outside coach, an external coach to help them.
But another thing that is very, very important in terms of getting promoted is that you
become an internal coach.
One of the things that we teach our managers that are just getting promoted, is what
we call the success equation.
In the success equation we talk about the three As, basically it's Aptitude, Attitude
and Available Resources.
Aptitude is the know-how, the skills.
Attitude is the drive and the confidence.
Available Resources is the tools and the equipment.
This equation will work well as long as all three of those variables are there.
So when we're teaching people how to coach their employees - and it can be a five-
minute conversation, it doesn't have to be a big 30, 45 minute session - they're going
to be looking at the attitude. Because most people have the aptitude. They have the
know-how; they have the skills. That's why they got hired.
Most people have available resources. They often grumble they don't have enough
but they do have the resources.
But attitude, that drive and the focus, that's where the five-minute conversations that
a new manager who just got promoted can have with his or her employee. And work
with him or her to improve their attitude.
Research has shown that an increased attitude can compensate for deficiencies in
aptitude or the available resources but the converse is not true.
So a new manager is really looking at having effective coaching conversations to
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work on the drive, the know-how, the focus, the commitment of their employees.
But an outside coach is definitely needed at certain times as well.
47:37 Tom Floyd Okay. Got it.
One point I wanted to quickly bring up from the Management Issues magazine
article.
It made this point around written rules versus unwritten rules.
As a coach, do you ever have situations where you work with individuals to define
and understand what these rules are, so to speak, in managing a promotion?
47:58 Anne Loehr I'm not sure I would say unwritten rules but there's definitely I would call the pink
elephant in the room.
Whether you are facilitating a meeting, you have to talk about what people are not
talking about.
There are certainly ways in a coaching conversation to figure out what it is that
people are not talking about but yet everybody knows about.
48:15 Tom Floyd Okay. Another point to bring up from a coaching perspective, and this has already
come up a few times in the show too, it's the importance of the relationships.
Have you coached people to develop more strategic and successful relationships in
the workplace in their path toward promotion?
Absolutely.
48:31 Anne Loehr
Coaching is really about two things. It's about awareness and it's about action.
Awareness is figuring out what's going on and what's really the issue here.
The action is what are you going to do about it.
In relationships, a typical manager response. Say an employee comes in and says “I
missed my sales goal.” A typical manager might say, “yeah, I saw that, what
happened?”
Whereas a coaching one that will help to develop the relationship might be, “so what
got in your way?”
So you're opening up the relationship, you're adding some transparency and some
honesty in there.
In the long term, it will build a relationship as well as coach the employee to more
success.
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49:11 Tom Floyd So you're being a little more authentic and focusing more on really cultivating a
conversation around it instead of just interrogating them with yes, no types of
questions?
49:22 Anne Loehr Exactly.
You want to have open ended questions that are short and simple, that build
awareness of this is how I got in my own way and missed my sales goal because of
whatever.
Now this is what I'm going to do to get out of my own way.
49:35 Tom Floyd Okay. Jane, anything that you would add?
I often with my clients draw these centric circles.
49:40 Jane Cranston
In the center is your comfort zone; that's what you know, that's what you like, this
comes naturally to you.
Next circle is your growth zone. And this can be exciting or it can be terrifying. But
the growth zone and outside of that is the fear zone.
I always say to them, we want to move from comfort to growth, never really
intentionally going into fear.
And I think when I coach people and manage people in my management life, that's
what I want.
I never wanted them to get to a point where they were scared but I didn't want them
to sit in comfort.
So if you can say to somebody, like the example that Anne said, “what could we do
to take you from this comfort zone to your growth zone?”
That sounds exciting to somebody.
If I say to somebody “what could we do to really scare you?”
What they do is they hide.
50:39 Tom Floyd Well yeah. If somebody came up to me and said “I'm going to scare the bejesus out
of you in the next three months,” I would probably do the same thing!
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50:44 Jane Cranston And there are managers who do that; the yelling, the screaming; the threatening and
all of that.
That does not work.
50:52 Tom Floyd If you could summarize for folks out there from your experience and your opinion, the
ways that a professional or executive coach can really help someone during and after
a promotion.
Can you summarize what those ways or benefits would be?
51:09 Jane Cranston I think the thing that happens most in coaching is we accelerate everything that's
going to happen, mostly because we're focused.
I am objectively in my client's corner so I don't agree with everything they say but I
have their best interest. It's a totally honest relationship.
I don't think people are totally honest with anyone in the workplace; it's too
dangerous, especially in a new situation.
So we're pushing things forward.
I will challenge people and say “that's interesting because last week you said this and
now you're saying that. I'm wondering what's changed.”
To make people aware of maybe they're falling back into that comfort zone when
they really should be in their growth zone.
The other thing is that I can say things to a client such as, “have you thought about
what you're going to wear on the first day on that new promotion?”
I dare say their supervisor's not saying that to them.
52:12 Tom Floyd Interesting. So it's like focusing on everything to kind of the aesthetic to the internal
to really the whole picture, the whole person.
52:20 Jane Cranston Some of it very concrete and some of it is a mind shift.
52:25 Tom Floyd Anne, anything that you would add?
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52:28 Anne Loehr No. I would agree.
Again, it's awareness and action.
So in terms of the mind shift, that's the awareness.
And then the action is exactly as Jane said, what are you going to wear? How are
you going to get that new outfit?
Actually get the accountability piece in there as well because accountability is very
important to coaching.
52:46 Tom Floyd We've got about a minute left before we wrap up.
I just want to ask a question about a success story.
Jane, I'll turn to you for this.
Can you share an example of somebody that you've coached who did end up getting
a major promotion?
Can you tell us what that looked like and what the results were?
53:04 Jane Cranston Yeah. I'm thinking of a man that I was working with.
I worked with him actually to get the job and then we worked up through the ladder.
It was very strategic.
This person was a kind of put their head down and do the work guy, and really wasn't
interested in relationships.
The big shift for him was getting to know the people at the next level. They actually
asked for him.
The promotion came to him once they were aware.
Then once he got in that position, the next was to start managing people.
Because it's hard to call yourself a manager if all you're managing is yourself.
We worked this over a five-year period.
This person has been promoted, each and every year, to the next level because he
has encouraged relationships, had a plan, followed the plan and then not stayed on it
because we had to re-adjust the plan as he went up the level.
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54:08 Tom Floyd Well I hate to interrupt you. That's a fantastic example. But we're unfortunately at
the end of our show.
Huge thank you to the four of you for joining us today. As always, big thank you to
our listeners as well.
For more information about our show, of course you can look us up on the Voice
America Business channel, you can visit our web site at www.ieconsulting.biz .
And don't forget you can download the podcast version of our show in Apple iTunes.
Just go to the iTunes store, click podcasts and enter Insight on Coaching in the
Search field.
Thanks everyone, we'll see you next week.
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