I used to do this back-of-the-napkin style presentation on whatever paper was handy when someone told me in person that women just weren't good at math, and that's why there were so few women in ...
I used to do this back-of-the-napkin style presentation on whatever paper was handy when someone told me in person that women just weren't good at math, and that's why there were so few women in computer science. I'm not sure what possesses people to say stuff like that to female mathematicians, really.
Anyhow, the point is that yes, there is some gender disparity in math skills, but if you do the math, it simply doesn't add up: those differences simply cannot explain why there are so few women in computer science (or in open source software, or in physics, or whatever).
Many people misunderstand or abuse the information we have about gender and ability differences. Hopefully this presentation will explain what the data really says (which isn't very much).
Terri Oda, Web security researcher at Carleton University@tjk3 The point of this presentation is that people have used the pervasiveness of this myth to hinder discussion of and research into what other factors are at play. Having people hung up on an explanation that is provably incomplete is a problem, and I wanted a simple and amusing way to refute the myth so even a layperson could see why it's worth looking elsewhere for a more complete answer.2 months ago
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tjk3I'm not sure what your point is. It's a fact that women are underrepresented in software and technology. You're arguing that this isn't due to a difference in inherent mathematical ability. Probably true, but so what? That doesn't tell us anything about what it is actually due to. It certainly doesn't imply that it is due to sexism or discrimination. Women are highly underrepresented even in undergrad CS courses, so whatever the problem is, it must be earlier than that. From developmental psychology, we know that many preferences and abilities are determined early in life. So, the most likely explanation for the observed differences in outcomes is different experiences of boys and girls in early childhood through elementary school.2 months ago
exprogI worked in systems development programming for about 20 years. The reason there aren't more women in the field is the double standard and sexism. Most hiring is done by men. Most performance evaluations are done by men. Most promotions are made by men. And all on the basis of the standard that a man has potential to do the job while a woman must do it before getting credit. I had the info to do a chart on number of programmers by by gender and by level. Male programmers graphed to a fairly standard bell curve. Female programmers were similar at the entry level, slower uptick at the next levels, then flat and then non-existent at the highest levels. I finally left when I'd enough of breaking glass ceilings (even at relatively low levels) and when the testosterone levels became suffocating2 months ago
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radiohostAs a woman, I believe biology does play a role in the dearth of women in computer science. Not because men-are-better-than-women-in-math. But because the computer was designed by men and programmed by men to think, speak and problem-solve the way they do. To my feminine mind, computer operation systems are often illogical, convoluted and more complicated than they need to be. Computer science is not female friendly and never will be until more women enter the field. As women we are used to this phenomenon: cars, sports, surgical equipment, video games, household tools, exercise machines, even vacuum cleaners, are designed and built by men to suit their bodies, their minds, their strengths and skill sets. Even when we get in the game, we gotta play by their rules because they brung the bat and ball. (And invented them, too.)1 year ago
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mpasaI am glad I found your presentation. I am a women with a computer science degree and I have programmed professionally for over 10 years (currently looking for work so I hope this form of gender bias doesn't prevent me from being hired). I have experienced some very bizarre attitudes towards women in computing. For example being told by male programmers that women are more emotional while men are more logical! This in a field where logic is very important! Those attitudes effect how women are treated, hired, assigned work, marked on tests, trusted to do work etc.. Your presentation proves something I've known for many years. Also, while growing up all the best math students I knew, those winning math awards, were all women. I was surprised to find any research was showing that women aren't as good in math as men. There might be something wrong in that research and I think it should be revisited and this talk about women not being good at math needs to be stopped because it has given girls a complex especially when the message out there makes it about gender! That keeps women out of these fields altogether. Your presentation is great and I hope it can help to destroy the gender biased message girls are given over and over again by pop science. Sensationalizing truly insignificant findings has been extremely destructive to women in those fields.1 year ago
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Ellie K, Risk analyst My senior year math classes at Swarthmore had more women than men. There was a real analysis seminar with only one male student (and the instructor), the rest, maybe 10 of us, were female. But it was never like that in Computer Science classes.
An aside: I think it can go both ways. I refer to 'Good programmers aren't necessarily good at math'. I'm an example of 'good at math but not necessarily a good programmer'. I'm not an an 'edge case'. And please, don't anyone say that the reason for this is 'because I am female'!
Thank you so much for this amusing and helpful presentation, Miz Terri Oda! You never claimed this was statistically robust: the x axis is labelled height, and the significance level 'tall enough to program'! But your point is communicated quite well, and I am so pleased that the presentation view count tallies at over 360,000!1 year ago
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Jaime MetcherTerri, great presentation. Just read *all* the comments. Fantastic discussion, which I'd divide into two camps:
1. Yeah, right on, you go girl! (I'm in this camp ) 2. Let's explore some imprecisions in the back of your napkin (despite your repeated statements that, hey people, it's just a back-of-the-napkin thing)
But the real point, to me, is demolishing the crap pop-science that's so prevalent in the media and extra-prevalent in any discussion of gender - 'Studies have shown that gender A is better than gender B at ability C, which justifies cherished prejudice D'. The take home message from your presentation is that, when working to the low levels of precision that can be applied in messy real social situations, we can modify the statement to:
'Studies show that gender A is better than gender B at ability C, which justifies and explains pretty much nothing at all.'1 year ago
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Anes P.A at GalTech Associates, AluvaHI TERI, YOU ARE DONE AN EXCELLENT PRESENTATION THANKS . I AM A WEB DEVELOPER BUT I AM AVERAGE IN MATHS(COMPUTER ENGG). I EXPECT MORE IDEAS FROM YOU ... BECAUSE U ARE GENIOUS ... THANKS1 year ago
How does biology explain the low numbers of women in computer science? Hint: it doesn’t.Presentation Transcript
How does biology explain the low numbers of women in computer science? Hint: It doesn't.
My name is Terri. I'm a mathematician.
I'm also female .
Nowadays, I work as a computer scientist. There aren't that many women in CS.
People like to say this is due to biological differences in math ability between men and women.
Turns out, people really suck at math.
Let me explain.
People claim the biological differences go like this: Rawr! I eat calculus for lunch! Math is hard. Let's go shopping! Men Women Rawr! I eat calculus for lunch! Math is hard. Let's go shopping! Men Women
That's not how it works Rawr! I eat calculus for lunch! Math is hard. Let's go shopping! Men Women Rawr! I eat calculus for lunch! Math is hard. Let's go shopping! Men Women
Ability graphs look more like this: Most normal people fall somewhere near the middle Only a few geniuses Ability # of people
When they hear men have higher math scores than women, people guess math is like this: Ability # of people Men Women
Which could explain why computer science is around 75% male... Ability # of people Men Women Must be at least this tall to write computer code
...except that it's a lie. Lies, damned lies, and statistics, eh?
First, CS doesn't require that much math ability. When I was an undergrad, we drew the graph like this: Trees Computer Science Majors Slime Mould Moose Math majors
Heh.
But degree rivalry aside, I've been teaching CS for 7 years. You only need moderate math skills to code. Ability # of people Level needed to code
So that'd be something like this... Old Graph: Very few women New Graph: Lots more women Ability # of people Men Women Must be at least this tall to write computer code Dotted line is average for both genders
Except... Remember how I said the graph is a lie?
Ability # of people Men Women
The population difference looks more like this: Ability # of people Men Women
Don't believe me? Here's the graph from a paper on the subject. Hyde, J; Fennema, E; Lamon, S. “Gender differences in mathematics performance: A meta-analysis.” Psychological Bulletin. Vol 107(2), Mar 1990, 139-155.
So if we put that line back in... We should have nearly 50% women Ability # of people Men Women You must be approximately this tall to write code
Therefore, Biological differences do not account for the gender disparity in computer science. They can't. They just aren't that significant. Not even close.
Also... You know who really sucks at math? People who think biology explains why there aren't more women in CS.
Now you know. Thanks for listening.
This presentation was created by Terri Oda And is released under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike license: If you want to use it in other ways, just ask: [email_address] Or email to let me know you liked it!
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REFILWE MAKETE
An aside: I think it can go both ways. I refer to 'Good programmers aren't necessarily good at math'. I'm an example of 'good at math but not necessarily a good programmer'. I'm not an an 'edge case'. And please, don't anyone say that the reason for this is 'because I am female'!
Thank you so much for this amusing and helpful presentation, Miz Terri Oda! You never claimed this was statistically robust: the x axis is labelled height, and the significance level 'tall enough to program'! But your point is communicated quite well, and I am so pleased that the presentation view count tallies at over 360,000! 1 year ago
1. Yeah, right on, you go girl! (I'm in this camp )
2. Let's explore some imprecisions in the back of your napkin (despite your repeated statements that, hey people, it's just a back-of-the-napkin thing)
But the real point, to me, is demolishing the crap pop-science that's so prevalent in the media and extra-prevalent in any discussion of gender - 'Studies have shown that gender A is better than gender B at ability C, which justifies cherished prejudice D'. The take home message from your presentation is that, when working to the low levels of precision that can be applied in messy real social situations, we can modify the statement to:
'Studies show that gender A is better than gender B at ability C, which justifies and explains pretty much nothing at all.' 1 year ago