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All's Fair in Love and 
Revenue: How to Hack the 
Sales and Marketing 
Relationship
SALES AND MARKETING 
THERAPISTS 
@BHARRI 
S@ 
HOWBAZAR
Dozens of Therapy Sessions
5 Hacks for a Healthy (and 
happy) Sales and Marketing 
Relationship
5 Hacks for a Healthy (and 
happy) Sales and Marketing 
Relationship 
1.Define the Relationship 
2.Learn to Speak Each Other’s 
Language 
3.Keep it Honest 
4.Push Each Other 
5.Constantly Communicate
DEFINE THE 
RELATIONSHIP
MQL-SAL 
CONVERSION RATE 
REVENUE/LEAD
SPEAK EACH 
OTHER’S LANGUAGE
KEEP IT HONEST
PUSH EACH OTHER
3 SLAS YOU NEED 
MARKETING TO BDR 
BDR TO SALES 
SALES TO MARKETING
COMMUNICATE
COMMUNICATE 
DESK PROXIMITY 
DAILY/WEEKLY SCRUM MEETINGS 
MARKETING FEEDBACK LOOP
THANK YOU! 
@BHARRI 
S@ 
HOWBAZAR

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Sales Hacker Conference Boston - CeCe Bazar & Blake Harris - All's Fair in Love & Sales

Editor's Notes

  1. We’re here to talk about sales and marketing alignment, which is important for companies at any stage of growth. Besides whatever Jeff Hoffman says. And thanks Jeff for making this easy.... Sales and marketing alignment is clearly one of the most important topics you’ll hear about today. They put us right up front. Blake: That’s because we’re all here for one reason: getting more customers. In order for this to be successful – at any stage of a B2B SaaS company’s growth– both sales and marketing have to have a healthy relationship. CeCe: Just like a marriage. Blake: Exactly. CeCe: See, hack number one – agree with everything she has to say. Blake: I don’t think that’s on our list. CeCe: But no, you’re right. It’s easy to say that marketing needs to be churning leads, and sales needs to be closing them. But that requires a lot of complexities: constant communication, honesty, pushing each other, lots of things that make up any healthy relationship. Blake: And sometimes that requires a bit of therapy to make sure you’re headed in the right direction… [SLIDE CHANGE]
  2. CeCe: So as we talk about what it takes to get a great sales and marketing relationship, we’ll be your therapists. I’m Blake Harris. I’m CeCe Bazar. Blake: We both work with OpenView Venture Partners. A venture capital firm based here in Boston. We focus on investments on B2B SaaS companies at the expansion stage, which we define as somewhere between $2-$20M in annual revenue. Because our investment focus is so narrow – B2B SaaS companies at the expansion stage – we’ve pinpointed the playbook for what it takes to get these companies the repeatable, predictable success they need to get to the next stage of growth. CeCe: Enter OpenView Labs, which is the operational consulting arm of OpenView where Blake and I focus our time. We work with our portfolio companies in one of two areas: Get More Talent, and Get More Customers. Our talent team works with our portfolio companies on their top priority searches whether that’s a board member or a BDR. Get More Customers is divided into two teams, a growth team Blake works on demand generation and I work on inside sales, BDr, and inbound lead qual teams. And obviously, to be successful at either of those functions, you need data and insights, which we get from our resident McKinsey or Bain team, which we call the Market Insights team.
  3. CeCe: So before we jump in, a quick poll: everyone stand up….. If you’re single, sit down. If you’re dating, sit down. If you’re engaged, sit down. If you’ve been married for less than a year, sit down. If you’ve been married for less than 5 years, sit down. 10 years? Sit down. More than 10? [Pick someone out] What’s your secret? Great example. Right on. We’re going to talk about that later. Ok, sit down. Blake: Honestly, outside of CeCe looking for her future husband, we don’t care who here is married and who is not. CeCe: But we do have some secrets from our experience that we’ll share.
  4. CeCe: So before we jump in, a quick poll: everyone stand up….. If you’re single, sit down. If you’re dating, sit down. If you’re engaged, sit down. If you’ve been married for less than a year, sit down. If you’ve been married for less than 5 years, sit down. 10 years? Sit down. More than 10? [Pick someone out] What’s your secret? Great example. Right on. We’re going to talk about that later. Ok, sit down. Blake: Honestly, outside of CeCe looking for her future husband, we don’t care who here is married and who is not. CeCe: But we do have some secrets from our experience that we’ll share.
  5. CeCe: Here are our five hacks for a healthy and happy sales and marketing relationship. We’ll learn how to define a relationship, learn to speak each other’s language, keep it honest, push each other, and constantly communicate. All for the sake of getting more customers. Blake: So what you’re going to hear today might sound a bit basic. You’re probably going to think you already knew this stuff. But have you done it? What we find from working with dozens of sales and marketing teams is that sometimes all you need is to go to back to the basics in order to get to the next level of growth, which is about having the right repeatable processes in place to get to scale. CeCe: As we dive in to each of those, we’ll talk about the hack itself, as well as real world examples from best in class companies on how to actually execute them. And takeaways for you to implement tomorrow.
  6. Goals: Goals should be aligned Marketing is measured on the same metrics as sales Example metrics: MQLs, SALs, SAL to close conversion rate Revenue per lead Track volume and quality Defining the relationship is where it all starts — whether you’re a founder who has been running sales, or an actual VP of Sales and you’re hiring your first marketing counterpart, this is where it’s decided what marketing is on the hook for, and what sales is responsible for achieving. Sales, what are the most important things should you be holding marketing accountable for? At the heart, it’s quality leads – or as you’ll hear it defined, MQLs – marketing qualified leads. But the bar for “qualified” differs from company to company depending on the type of demand you’re trying to create. In an industry with a me-too product, and there’s already budget for your solution? Marketing should be on the hook for leads that are at a later stage in the buyers journey and perhaps even evaluating competitors. In an industry where the need for whatever you’re selling is not yet defined, and marketing is working harder at earlier stages of the buyer’s journey – in the awareness and education phase – to help prospects understand WHY they need what you’re selling? Marketing should be on the hook for leads that are qualified to a lower level, perhaps who have expressed interest, and sales is accountable for moving them through more of the buyer’s journey with one-to-one communication. Marketing, what are the most important things should you be holding sales accountable for? Two big metrics: MQL to SAL – or sales accepted lead – conversion rate, and revenue per lead. The first, MQL to SAL conversion rate measures how well sales can create opportunities off of the leads marketing creates. ….[more] Revenue per lead measures how great those opportunities are. Is sales treating every lead like gold, and trying to extract the most value from each one? [more] Implementing this will get you to a position where your goals are tied together. You’re driving in the same direction. Just like any good relationship. The same applies for the fusion of sales and marketing – you’re definining success the same way.
  7. Marketing, what are the most important things should you be holding sales accountable for? Two big metrics: MQL to SAL – or sales accepted lead – conversion rate, and revenue per lead. The first, MQL to SAL conversion rate measures how well sales can create opportunities off of the leads marketing creates. ….[more] Revenue per lead measures how great those opportunities are. Is sales treating every lead like gold, and trying to extract the most value from each one? [more] Implementing this will get you to a position where your goals are tied together. You’re driving in the same direction. Just like any good relationship. The same applies for the fusion of sales and marketing – you’re defining success the same way.
  8. Instead of a blame game whereby what you’re talking about is completely different, you need a common language to communicate with Ask any member of your prospecting, inside sales, or bdr team what a qualified opportunity looks like – I guarantee you’ll get a different answer based on who you ask. Same thing goes for MQL, SAL, SQL…. At the early stage when you have low volume, it’s ok for these definitions to be circumstantial, but in order to sustain growth momentum and set up for scale, you have to have clear definitions of leads and opportunities and a clear map of what that funnel looks like, and who is responsible for touching a particular lead at a particular time and ultimately moving it out of that stage. It’s the only way you’ll be able to pinpoint inefficiencies, where prospects are getting stuck in their journey, and whether the blame lies in sales and marketing. But how do we do this? First thing’s first… Marketing and sales should separately define how they think prospects move through the buyer’s journey, how that’s represented in your CRM – what the lead statuses are – and who is responsible for touchpoints at each stage. Cross reference those two lists, identify misalignment, come to an agreement, and formalize it. Sounds pretty basic, right? Where these mini-workshops, or white collar prisons tend to fail is afterwards. The most important piece to speaking each other’s language is actually institutionalizing it. I can’t tell you how often we sit with a BDR team and ask them to define that company’s MQL and they’re unable to answer because the definition changes day-to-day rep-to-rep. Our advice? Take the output from your lead definition meeting, shrink it down to one page, because that’s all it should be, laminate it, and hang it at the desks of everyone on your S&M team. The teams that have the most success have this top of mind each time they pick up the phone.
  9. One view of the truth, combined intelligence, ingetrated systems. Pull a report of MQLs created last week S&M see if they’re the same. Like CeCe mentioned, institutionalizing definitions and as I mentioned earlier, establishing goals that keep both sales and marketing on the hook is essential to the success of a high growth, scalable team. One way to know if this is working? Go back to the office tomorrow and run a report on the key metrics we talked about, MQLs, SALs, SAL to Close ratio. And ask your sales or marketing counterpart to do the same. Chances are the numbers will be different. It’s far too common that a CEO gets a report of MQLs created in a quarter from a VP of Marketing that’s completely different than the report she received from her head of sales. Extremely detrimental. The reason is… There’s no one view of the truth. Sales has their set of standard reports, or maybe even a dedicated sales ops person. Marketing has their set of reports. Sometimes these are pulled from different systems, they go through the Excel washing machine, and out comes something different every time. Avoid the Excel washing machine. How do you do this? Take the document
  10. Sense of urgency SLAs Rules of Engagement Handoff process Comp plan – sales to maximize every lead and revenue per lead We were visiting portfolio company in San Francisco a few weeks ago and they had the first three hacks down. Same goals, same definitions, one view of the truth, strong funnel, but what we determined was that there wasn’t the same sense of urgency between the sales and marketing teams. They weren’t pushing each other. Anyone in a relationship knows that it’s important to keep the spark alive. There’s a healthy tension that should existing between these two organizations, especially at the growth or expansion stage. This propels you to the next level of success. I think that comes down to a shared sense of urgency. You have your goals, you have your standard definitions, and one view of the truth, but what are you going to do to push each other and hold each other accountable? [sales and marketing grievances poll – inbound lead followup, sfdc accountability] SLAs. Service Level Agreements. Developing an SLA between marketing and sales sets up the expectation for each team that they should be working together and holds each team accountable to doing so. SLAs cover a wide variety of topics. We recently did some research on the biggest grievances between sales and marketing teams. The top two grievances were 1) untimely followup on inbound leads 2) poor salesforce or CRM adoption – two very different painpoints, but both of which can be solved with enforceable SLAs.
  11. Sense of urgency SLAs Rules of Engagement Handoff process Comp plan – sales to maximize every lead and revenue per lead We were visiting portfolio company in San Francisco a few weeks ago and they had the first three hacks down. Same goals, same definitions, one view of the truth, strong funnel, but what we determined was that there wasn’t the same sense of urgency between the sales and marketing teams. They weren’t pushing each other. Anyone in a relationship knows that it’s important to keep the spark alive. There’s a healthy tension that should existing between these two organizations, especially at the growth or expansion stage. This propels you to the next level of success. I think that comes down to a shared sense of urgency. You have your goals, you have your standard definitions, and one view of the truth, but what are you going to do to push each other and hold each other accountable? SLAs. Service Level Agreements. Developing an SLA between marketing and sales sets up the expectation for each team that they should be working together and holds each team accountable to doing so. SLAs cover a wide variety of topics. We recently did some research on the biggest grievances between sales and marketing teams. The top two grievances were 1) untimely followup on inbound leads 2) poor salesforce or CRM adoption – two very different painpoints, but both of which can be solved with enforceable SLAs. There are three basic SLAs you need: marketing to BDR, BDR to Sales, Sales to Marketing. Successful company tied sales comp to lead conversion rate.
  12. Weekly meetings (date night) HubSpot does this through weekly Smarketing – sales and marketing – meetings. At OpenView, we advise our portfolio companies to use an adapted version of Scrum, daily standup meetings, weekly retrospectives, etc… But it doesn’t always have to be that complicated. Marketing feedback loop Marketing iwshlist Content inventory (Persona/industry) playbooks Sit together Listen in on sales calls This is a given. You’re sitting there saying you already do this. But let us tell you, there’s more you can be doing. Three hacks your teams can use to communicate better. CeCe: If you’re not already, go back to your office tomorrow, and arrange your desks so that the head of marketing and head of sales sit right next to each other. As Jason Lemkin says, you should be the mom and dad of revenue. Blake: This also happens to be his top hack, and ours, for sales and marketing alignment. CeCe: The insight you’ll get from this will be amazing. We can tell, from the moment we walk into an office, based on where the vp of sales nad marketing sits, what their relationship looks like. It’s so telling. But when you’re sitting next to each other daily, ingrained in each other’s daily rhythm, it’s makes it so much harder to point fingers down the line. You’ll surface problems you didn’t know existed, and you’ll find answers to them on the spot, instead of when it’s most embarrassing – at your QBR in front of your CEO. Which is also why we prescribe and have seen some of our most successful sales and marketing teams in the portfolio use an adapted version of Scrum – which means daily morning standup meetings, and weekly planning and retrospective meetings. HubSpot does this, and calls it Smarketing Meetings. Even if you feel like you don’t have any updates, anything to talk about, being locked in a room with your colleagues will result in something…. Pull out your phones, and schedule this meeting right now. [more] Establish a feedback loop. More often than not, as sales and marketing teams grow, they begin to operate in silos. We see this all the time with rapid growth companies. Making the assumption that the other team knows. How do you establish feedback loops? Playbooks – persona, SLA, content, messaging, value prop, industry insights, goals. Marketing Wishlists – If you’re a BDR in the audience and you don’t have this, bug your manager for one. Or make one of your own. Being on the phones, you’re the front line with your prospets. You hear what their pains are, their common objections, etc. Document that. It’s what marketing needs to create good content and drive more leads. Email/form idea. Create a shared Google doc with all of the content you wish you had. Create a new entry every time someone on the phone asks you for something you don’t have. Daily updates – Activity and key market insights, as simple as a pain, or a new competitor you’ve heard about The teams that do this are the most successful because they’re the most accountable. And feel ownership of their goals.
  13. So listen, you’ve heard a lot of high level information today. And if you’re smart, you’re thinking ok, this is great, but where do I start? Go through this list. Check yourself. How do you stack up? If you’re already doing the things we talked about, are you confident they’re actually working? If not, there’s more you can be doing. We publish a lot of content on this specific to B2B SaaS companies. Lots of information you can check out. Follow us on Twitter. http://j.mp/ovp-sales