2. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
See also: Source(s) of the criticism
Response
Joseph F. Smith and Orson Pratt
understood the problem more than a
century ago, when they wrote in 1877 to
John Taylor:
"The contradictions in regard to
the name of the angelic messenger
who appeared to Joseph Smith
occurred probably through the
mistakes of clerks in making or
copying documents and we think
should be corrected. . . . From
careful research we are fully
convinced that Moroni is the
correct name. This also was the
decision of the former historian,
George A. Smith."[1]
(http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jfs1)
These facts have not been hidden; they
are readily acknowledged in the History
of the Church:
In the original publication of the
history in the Times and Seasons at
Nauvoo, this name appears as
"Nephi," and the Millennial Star
perpetuated the error in its
republication of the History. That
it is an error is evident, and it is so
noted in the manuscripts to which
access has been had in the
preparation of this work.[2]
(http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_HoC1)
Sources which mention Nephi
Critics cite a variety of sources that
repeat the 'Nephi' identification. The key
point to understand is that there is really
only one source that claims the heavenly
messenger was Nephi; the other sources
which mention Nephi are merely citing
this one source, thus perpetuating the
error. The problematic document is the
June 1839 Manuscript History of the
Page 2 of 9
■ Scholars solved discrepancies?
■ Can't see God without priesthood?
After the vision:
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
No ref in 1830s publications?
Seldom mentioned in LDS pubs bef 1877?
No ref in non-LDS pubs before 1843?
Taught Joseph saw "God" in 1830 pub?
No published ref to Father and Son until 1838?
Joseph unsure of God in 1823?
Lucy joined Presbyterians in 1823?
Joined other churches?
All churches wrong?
Fabricated to bolster authority?
Details added over time?
Created to offset leadership crisis?
Others' accounts:
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
George Q. Cannon
Cowdery version of 1834-5?
Orson Hyde
Andrew Jenson
Heber C. Kimball|
Orson Pratt
George A. Smith
Lucy Mack Smith
Orson Spencer
John Taylor
Brigham never spoke of 1st vision?
Brigham claimed an angel?
Seldom published pre-1877 (short)
(long)
Moroni's visit:
■ Moroni's visit (summary)
■ Nephi or Moroni in 1823?
■ A "spirit" visited Joseph in 1827?
■ Moroni as an "angel of Satan"
■ Joseph's siblings remained asleep?
Other criticisms:
■ D&C 121:28 contradicts vision?
■ Father: Spirit vs. Embodied
■ Personages seen by Joseph
FAIR Wiki Topical Guide
■ First Vision
FAIR web site
■ Topical guide (http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai063.html)
■ Articles
FARMS web site
■ [Pending]
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010
3. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
Church Book A-1 (which was a copy of
an April 1838 document -- James
Mulholland copied George W.
Robinson's earlier text. The 1838
document is no longer extant).
■ The 1839 document was then
published in the 1842 Times and
Seasons as follows:
Page 3 of 9
Additional reading
■ Online
■ In print
Other portals
■ Joseph Smith, Jr.
He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of
God to me, and that his name was Nephi. That God had a work for me to do, and that my name
should be had for good and evil, among all nations, kindreds, and tongues; or that it should be
both good and evil spoken of among all people. He said there was a book deposited written
upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source
from whence they sprang. [italics added][3] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_TaS1)
■ In England, the Church's periodical called the Millennial Star reprinted the same article in
August 1842, perpetuating the error:
He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of
God to me, and that his name was Nephi [italics added][4] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_MS1)
■ This idea was repeated again, in the same volume of the Millennial Star, in an editorial written
on 1 August 1842 either by Parley P. Pratt or Thomas Ward:
Again, when we read the history of our beloved brother, Joseph Smith, and of the glorious
ministry and message of the angel Nephi, which has finally opened a new dispensation to man,
and commenced a revolution in the moral, civil, and religious government of the world...
[italics added][5] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_MS2)
■ The Pearl of Great Price, published in England in 1851 (but not yet canonized), identified its
source for the story as "Times & Seasons, vol. iii, p. 726, &c." On page 41 it is said,
He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of
God to me, and that his name was Nephi [italics added][6] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_pogp1)
■ The Times and Seasons account was also inserted into the autobiography of the Prophet's
mother (Lucy Mack Smith) by an editor in 1853. The Prophet's mother, therefore, did not
make this statement (as some critics claim). The source is identified on page 81 as follows -"Times and Seasons, vol. iii., p. 729. Supp. to Mil. Star, vol. xiv., p. 4." It reads:
He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of
God to me, and that his name was Nephi [italics added][7] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_lms1)
However, on the bottom of page 79 of this autobiography (where the above quotation occurs) there is
a note about the name "Nephi" and it says, "Moroni, see Doc & Cov. sec. L., par. 2; Elders' Journal,
vol. i., pp. 28 and 129; History of Joseph Smith under year 1838; Deseret News, no. 10, vol. iii. O.P."
The initials at the end probably stand for Orson Pratt -- who had the autobiography published in
1853.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010
4. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
Page 4 of 9
Thus, a single error in the Manuscript History had a ripple effect through several published accounts
of the vision. These accounts are not independent 'proof' that Joseph was changing the story; they all
depend upon a single initial error (which may have been caused by the 1838 or 1839 scribes).
Sources which mention Moroni
In contrast to the single source error mentioned above, there are multiple independent sources
(originating with Joseph Smith and both friendly and hostile individuals) which demonstrate that the
identification of the angel as "Moroni" was well-known and pre-dated the 1838/39 error.
■ D&C 27:5 - 1830–1835
Behold this is wisdom in me: wherefore marvel not for the hour cometh that I will drink of the
fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal
the book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel [modern edition D&C
27:5 (http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/27/5#5) ][8] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_dc1)
■ Mormonism Unvailed - 1834, reprinted as History of Mormonism in 1840 [an anti-Mormon
book]
After he had finished translating the Book of Mormon, he again buried up the plates in the side
of a mountain, by command of the Lord; some time after this, he was going through a piece of
woods, on a by-path, when he discovered an old man dressed in ordinary grey apparel...The
Lord told him that the man he saw was MORONI, with the plates, and if he had given him the
five coppers, he might have got his plates again. (emphasis in original)[9]
(http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_unvailed1)
■ Messenger and Advocate - 1835
I have now given you a rehearsal of what was communicated to our brother, when he was
directed to go and obtain the record of the Nephites…and I believe that the angel Moroni,
whose words I have been rehearsing, who communicated the knowledge of the record of the
Nephites, in this age, saw also, before he hid up the same unto the Lord, great and marvelous
things, which were to transpire when the same should come forth[10] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_ma1)
■ Elders' Journal - July 1838
For those holy men are angels now. And these are they, who make the fulness of times
complete with us. And they who sin against this authority given to him ... sins not against him
only, but against Moroni, who holds the keys of the stick of Ephraim. (italics added)[11]
(http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_ej1)
■ Elders' Journal - July 1838
How, and where did you obtain the book of Mormon?...Moroni, the person who deposited the
plates, from whence the book of Mormon was translated, in a hill in Manchester, Ontario
County, New York, being dead, and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me and told me
where they were and gave me directions how to obtain them. I obtained them and the Urim
and Thummim with them, by the means of which I translated the plates and thus came the
book of Mormon.[12] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_ej2)
■ Gospel Reflector - March 1841
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010
5. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
Page 5 of 9
The 1835 Oliver Cowdery letter identifying "the angel Moroni" as the revealer of the golden
plates was reprinted.
[vol. 1, no. 6, March 1841, 161.]
■ Times and Seasons - April 1841
The 1835 Oliver Cowdery letter identifying "the angel Moroni" as the revealer of the golden
plates was reprinted.
[vol. 2, no. 11, 1 April 1841, 363].
■ Pamphlet - 1844
The 1835 Oliver Cowdery letter identifying "the angel Moroni" as the revealer of the golden
plates was reprinted.
[Letters by Oliver Cowdery to W. W. Phelps on the Origin of the Book of Mormon (Liverpool:
Thomas Ward and John Cairns, 1844), 31.]
■ D&C 128 (labeled 104 in 1844 edition) - 1844
And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven,
declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed. (D&C 128:20
(http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/128/20#20) ).
Conclusion
This is not an example of Joseph Smith changing his story over time, but an example of a detail
being improperly recorded by someone other than the Prophet, and then reprinted uncritically. Clear
contemporary evidence from Joseph and his enemies—who would have seized upon any
inconsistency had they known about it—shows that "Moroni" was the name of the heavenly
messenger BEFORE the 1838 and 1839 histories were recorded.
It is understandable that Joseph's associates could have misidentified "Moroni" as "Nephi" since
Joseph also had contact with "Nephi" during the process of the Restoration.
■ “Who was it that administered to Joseph Smith? Moroni and Nephi, men who had lived upon
this continent.”[13] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jd1)
■ “Afterwards the angel Moroni came to him and revealed to him the Book of Mormon, with
the history of which you are generally familiar, and also with the statements that I am now
making pertaining to these things. And then came Nephi, one of the ancient prophets, that had
lived upon this continent, who had an interest in the welfare of the people that he had lived
amongst in those days.”[14] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jd2)
■ “ If you will read the history of the Church from the beginning, you will find that Joseph was
visited by various angelic beings, but not one of them professed to give him the keys until
John the Baptist came to him. Moroni, who held the keys of the record of the stick of
Ephraim, visited Joseph; he had doubtless, also, visits from Nephi and it may be from Alma
and others.”[15] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jd3)
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010
6. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
Page 6 of 9
Endnotes
1. [note] Letter, Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith to John Taylor, 18 December 1877; cited in
Dean C. Jessee, ed., The Papers of Joseph Smith: Autobiographical and Historical Writings
(Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1989), 1:277, nt. 1.
2. [note] Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes,
edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 1:11–12, footnote 2.
BYU Studies link (http://byustudies.byu.edu/hc/hcpgs/hc.aspx?HC=/hc/1/1.html&A=11)
3. [note] Anon., "History of Joseph Smith (continued)," Times and Seasons 3 no. 12 (15 April
1842), 753. off-site (http://www.centerplace.org/history/ts/) GospeLink (http://gospelink.com/library/toc?
book_id=487&tab=contents) (requires subscrip.)
4. [note] Anon., "History of Joseph Smith From the 'Times and Seasons'," Millennial Star 3 no.
4 (August 1842), 53.
5. [note] Anon., ""The Millennial Star. August 1, 1842," Millennial Star 3 no. 4 (August 1842),
71.
6. [note] Franklin D. Richards (publisher), The Pearl of Great Price, 1st edition (Liverpool: R.
James, South Castle Street, 1851), 40–41.
7. [note] Lucy [Mack] Smith, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and his
Progenitors for Many Generations, (London: Latter-Day Saints' Book Depot, 1853), 78–80.
8. [note] Doctrine and Covenants 50:2 (1835 edition); received August 1830, written September
1830 (See History of the Church, 1:106, nt. 3).
9. [note] Eber Dudley Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press, 1834),
277.
10. [note] Oliver Cowdery, Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 1 no. 7 (April 1835), 112.
11. [note] David W. Patten, Elder's Journal 1:3 (July 1838):42 (see also Millennial Star 1:126).
12. [note] Joseph Smith, Jr., Elders’ Journal 1:3 (July 1838): 42–43.
13. [note] John Taylor, "God’s Purposes Unchangeable," Journal of Discourses, reported by D.W.
Evans, G.F. Gibbs, and others, (29 July 1877), vol. 19 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book
Depot, 1878), 82.
14. [note] John Taylor, "How a Knowledge of God is Obtained," Journal of Discourses, reported
by George F. Gibbs, John Irvine, and others, (7 December 1879), vol. 21 (London: Latter-day
Saint's Book Depot, 1881), 161.
15. [note] George Q. Cannon, "Discourse...," Journal of Discourses, reported by D.W. Evans and
John Grimshaw, (5 December 1869), vol. 13 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1871),
47.
Further reading
FAIR wiki articles
First Vision wiki articles
Overview
■ Summary article
Leading up to the vision:
■ Methodist camp meetings in 1820
■ Religious revivals in 1820
■ Place of residence in 1820
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010
7. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
Page 7 of 9
The vision:
■ First Vision accounts (summary)
■ 1832 account (overview)
■ Early understanding of God?
■ No new dispensation?
■ Different age?
■ Different motivation?
■ No persecution?
■ No revival?
■ Not forbidden to convert?
■ Wicked destroyed?
■ Only one Deity?
■ In heaven or earth?
■ Unconditional salvation?
■ Struggle with Satan?
■ 1835 account (overview)
■ Personages were angels?
■ 1838 account (overview)
■ 1820 Revival?
■ "It commenced with the Methodists"
■ Paul's accounts of his vision
■ Scholars solved discrepancies?
■ Can't see God without priesthood?
After the vision:
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
No reference in 1830s publications?
Seldom mentioned in LDS publications before 1877?
No reference in non-LDS publications before 1843?
Joseph saw "God" in 1830 publication?
No published references to Father and Son until 1838?
Joseph unsure of God in 1823?
Lucy joined Presbyterians in 1823?
Joined other churches?
All churches wrong?
Fabricated to bolster authority?
Details added over time?
Created to offset leadership crisis?
Others' accounts:
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
George Q. Cannon
Cowdery version of 1834-5?
Orson Hyde
Andrew Jenson
Heber C. Kimball|
Orson Pratt
George A. Smith
Lucy Mack Smith
Orson Spencer
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010
8. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
■
■
■
■
Page 8 of 9
John Taylor
Brigham never spoke of 1st vision?
Brigham claimed an angel?
Seldom published pre-1877 (short)
■ (long)
Other criticisms:
■ D&C 121:28 contradicts vision?
■ Father: Spirit vs. Embodied
■ Personages seen by Joseph
Joseph Smith other visionary issues wiki articles
Moroni's visit:
■ Moroni's visit (summary)
■ Nephi or Moroni in 1823?
■ A "spirit" visited Joseph in 1827?
■ Moroni as an "angel of Satan"
■ Joseph Smith's early conception of God
■ Personages who appeared to Joseph Smith
■ Swedenborg and three degrees of glory [needs work]
God wiki articles
■ The Father: A Spirit vs. Embodied
■ Lectures on Faith teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"?
■ Corporeality of God
■ God is "not a man"?
■ Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven?
■ Lectures on Faith teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"?
■ Creatio ex nihilo / Creation out of nothing
■ Creation in Colossians 1:16
■ Creation of spirits
■ Spirit children created by sexual union?
■ Dallin H. Oaks on God as seen by LDS and other Christians
■ Elohim and Jehovah
■ Downplaying the King Follett discourse by President Hinckley?
■ Do Mormons believe they will be "gods of their own planets"?
■ Does Elohim have a father God above him?
■ Foreknowledge of God
■ God is a Spirit
■ Book of Mormon says God is a spirit?
■ Godhead and the Trinity and Nicene creed
■ Sabellianism/modalism in the Book of Mormon?
■ Heavenly Mother?
■ Latter-day Saints believe in Celestial Sex?
■ Infinite regress of Gods?
■ Kolob
■ "No God beside me" - (includes Isaiah 43-46 issues)
■ No man has seen God
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010
9. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
Page 9 of 9
■ Polytheism - Are Mormons polytheists?
■ Spirit bodies for humans and 1 Cor 15
■ Early Christians on literal resurrection
■ Theosis or human deification
■ Do Mormons believe they will be "gods of their own planets"?
■ Latter-day Saints believe in Celestial Sex?
■ Primary sources/Theosis
■ Unchanging Nature of God
FAIR web site
■ Matthew B. Brown, "Historical or Hysterical—Anti-Mormons and Documentary Sources,"
presentation at the 2004 FAIR Conference. FAIR link
(http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2004_Anti-Mormons_and_Documentary_Sources.html) (Key source)
External links
■ Elden Watson and D. Charles Pyle, "The Nephi/Moroni Problem", mormonfortress.com. off-site
(http://www.mormonfortress.com/nemor2.html)
Retrieved from "http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni"
Categories: First Vision | Needs work | Joseph Smith
■ This page was last modified on 24 May 2010, at 03:09.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010
![Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon
See also: Source(s) of the criticism
Response
Joseph F. Smith and Orson Pratt
understood the problem more than a
century ago, when they wrote in 1877 to
John Taylor:
"The contradictions in regard to
the name of the angelic messenger
who appeared to Joseph Smith
occurred probably through the
mistakes of clerks in making or
copying documents and we think
should be corrected. . . . From
careful research we are fully
convinced that Moroni is the
correct name. This also was the
decision of the former historian,
George A. Smith."[1]
(http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jfs1)
These facts have not been hidden; they
are readily acknowledged in the History
of the Church:
In the original publication of the
history in the Times and Seasons at
Nauvoo, this name appears as
"Nephi," and the Millennial Star
perpetuated the error in its
republication of the History. That
it is an error is evident, and it is so
noted in the manuscripts to which
access has been had in the
preparation of this work.[2]
(http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%
27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_HoC1)
Sources which mention Nephi
Critics cite a variety of sources that
repeat the 'Nephi' identification. The key
point to understand is that there is really
only one source that claims the heavenly
messenger was Nephi; the other sources
which mention Nephi are merely citing
this one source, thus perpetuating the
error. The problematic document is the
June 1839 Manuscript History of the
Page 2 of 9
■ Scholars solved discrepancies?
■ Can't see God without priesthood?
After the vision:
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
No ref in 1830s publications?
Seldom mentioned in LDS pubs bef 1877?
No ref in non-LDS pubs before 1843?
Taught Joseph saw "God" in 1830 pub?
No published ref to Father and Son until 1838?
Joseph unsure of God in 1823?
Lucy joined Presbyterians in 1823?
Joined other churches?
All churches wrong?
Fabricated to bolster authority?
Details added over time?
Created to offset leadership crisis?
Others' accounts:
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
■
George Q. Cannon
Cowdery version of 1834-5?
Orson Hyde
Andrew Jenson
Heber C. Kimball|
Orson Pratt
George A. Smith
Lucy Mack Smith
Orson Spencer
John Taylor
Brigham never spoke of 1st vision?
Brigham claimed an angel?
Seldom published pre-1877 (short)
(long)
Moroni's visit:
■ Moroni's visit (summary)
■ Nephi or Moroni in 1823?
■ A "spirit" visited Joseph in 1827?
■ Moroni as an "angel of Satan"
■ Joseph's siblings remained asleep?
Other criticisms:
■ D&C 121:28 contradicts vision?
■ Father: Spirit vs. Embodied
■ Personages seen by Joseph
FAIR Wiki Topical Guide
■ First Vision
FAIR web site
■ Topical guide (http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai063.html)
■ Articles
FARMS web site
■ [Pending]
http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni
14/06/2010](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)