Nephi or Moroni

700 views

Published on

0 Comments
0 Likes
Statistics
Notes
  • Be the first to comment

  • Be the first to like this

No Downloads
Views
Total views
700
On SlideShare
0
From Embeds
0
Number of Embeds
2
Actions
Shares
0
Downloads
2
Comments
0
Likes
0
Embeds 0
No embeds

No notes for slide

Nephi or Moroni

  1. 1. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon Page 1 of 9 Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni From FAIRMormon < Moroni's visit Copyright © 2005–2010 Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research. The content of this page may be not copied, published, or redistributed without the prior written consent of FAIR. FAIRwiki portal Contents ■ 1 Criticism ■ 2 Response ■ 2.1 Sources which mention Nephi ■ 2.2 Sources which mention Moroni ■ 3 Conclusion ■ 4 Endnotes ■ 5 Further reading ■ 5.1 FAIR wiki articles ■ 5.1.1 Overview ■ 5.1.2 Leading up to the vision: ■ 5.1.3 The vision: ■ 5.1.4 After the vision: ■ 5.1.5 Others' accounts: ■ 5.1.6 Other criticisms: ■ 5.2 FAIR web site ■ 5.3 External links First Vision & Related Issues FAIRwiki articles Overview: ■ Summary article Leading up to the vision: ■ ■ ■ ■ Methodist camp meetings in 1820 Joseph became "partial" to Methodists Religious revivals in 1820 Place of residence in 1820 The vision: Criticism ■ The Church teaches that Moroni was the heavenly messenger which appeared to Joseph Smith and directed him to the gold plates. Yet, some Church sources give the identity of this messenger as Nephi. Critics claim that this shows that Joseph was 'making it up as he went along.' ■ If the angel spoke about the plates being "engraven by Moroni," then he couldn't have been Moroni himself. ■ First Vision accounts (summary) ■ 1832 account (overview) ■ Early understanding of God? ■ No new dispensation? ■ Different age? ■ Different motivation? ■ No persecution? ■ No revival? ■ Not forbidden to convert? ■ Wicked destroyed? ■ Only one Deity? ■ In heaven or earth? ■ Unconditional salvation? ■ Struggle with Satan? ■ 1835 account (overview) ■ Personages were angels? ■ 1838 account (overview) ■ 1820 Revival? ■ "It commenced with the Methodists" ■ Paul's accounts of his vision http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010
  2. 2. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon See also: Source(s) of the criticism Response Joseph F. Smith and Orson Pratt understood the problem more than a century ago, when they wrote in 1877 to John Taylor: "The contradictions in regard to the name of the angelic messenger who appeared to Joseph Smith occurred probably through the mistakes of clerks in making or copying documents and we think should be corrected. . . . From careful research we are fully convinced that Moroni is the correct name. This also was the decision of the former historian, George A. Smith."[1] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni% 27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jfs1) These facts have not been hidden; they are readily acknowledged in the History of the Church: In the original publication of the history in the Times and Seasons at Nauvoo, this name appears as "Nephi," and the Millennial Star perpetuated the error in its republication of the History. That it is an error is evident, and it is so noted in the manuscripts to which access has been had in the preparation of this work.[2] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni% 27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_HoC1) Sources which mention Nephi Critics cite a variety of sources that repeat the 'Nephi' identification. The key point to understand is that there is really only one source that claims the heavenly messenger was Nephi; the other sources which mention Nephi are merely citing this one source, thus perpetuating the error. The problematic document is the June 1839 Manuscript History of the Page 2 of 9 ■ Scholars solved discrepancies? ■ Can't see God without priesthood? After the vision: ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ No ref in 1830s publications? Seldom mentioned in LDS pubs bef 1877? No ref in non-LDS pubs before 1843? Taught Joseph saw "God" in 1830 pub? No published ref to Father and Son until 1838? Joseph unsure of God in 1823? Lucy joined Presbyterians in 1823? Joined other churches? All churches wrong? Fabricated to bolster authority? Details added over time? Created to offset leadership crisis? Others' accounts: ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ George Q. Cannon Cowdery version of 1834-5? Orson Hyde Andrew Jenson Heber C. Kimball| Orson Pratt George A. Smith Lucy Mack Smith Orson Spencer John Taylor Brigham never spoke of 1st vision? Brigham claimed an angel? Seldom published pre-1877 (short) (long) Moroni's visit: ■ Moroni's visit (summary) ■ Nephi or Moroni in 1823? ■ A "spirit" visited Joseph in 1827? ■ Moroni as an "angel of Satan" ■ Joseph's siblings remained asleep? Other criticisms: ■ D&C 121:28 contradicts vision? ■ Father: Spirit vs. Embodied ■ Personages seen by Joseph FAIR Wiki Topical Guide ■ First Vision FAIR web site ■ Topical guide (http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai063.html) ■ Articles FARMS web site ■ [Pending] http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010
  3. 3. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon Church Book A-1 (which was a copy of an April 1838 document -- James Mulholland copied George W. Robinson's earlier text. The 1838 document is no longer extant). ■ The 1839 document was then published in the 1842 Times and Seasons as follows: Page 3 of 9 Additional reading ■ Online ■ In print Other portals ■ Joseph Smith, Jr. He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi. That God had a work for me to do, and that my name should be had for good and evil, among all nations, kindreds, and tongues; or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people. He said there was a book deposited written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. [italics added][3] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni% 27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_TaS1) ■ In England, the Church's periodical called the Millennial Star reprinted the same article in August 1842, perpetuating the error: He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi [italics added][4] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni% 27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_MS1) ■ This idea was repeated again, in the same volume of the Millennial Star, in an editorial written on 1 August 1842 either by Parley P. Pratt or Thomas Ward: Again, when we read the history of our beloved brother, Joseph Smith, and of the glorious ministry and message of the angel Nephi, which has finally opened a new dispensation to man, and commenced a revolution in the moral, civil, and religious government of the world... [italics added][5] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_MS2) ■ The Pearl of Great Price, published in England in 1851 (but not yet canonized), identified its source for the story as "Times & Seasons, vol. iii, p. 726, &c." On page 41 it is said, He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi [italics added][6] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni% 27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_pogp1) ■ The Times and Seasons account was also inserted into the autobiography of the Prophet's mother (Lucy Mack Smith) by an editor in 1853. The Prophet's mother, therefore, did not make this statement (as some critics claim). The source is identified on page 81 as follows -"Times and Seasons, vol. iii., p. 729. Supp. to Mil. Star, vol. xiv., p. 4." It reads: He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi [italics added][7] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni% 27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_lms1) However, on the bottom of page 79 of this autobiography (where the above quotation occurs) there is a note about the name "Nephi" and it says, "Moroni, see Doc & Cov. sec. L., par. 2; Elders' Journal, vol. i., pp. 28 and 129; History of Joseph Smith under year 1838; Deseret News, no. 10, vol. iii. O.P." The initials at the end probably stand for Orson Pratt -- who had the autobiography published in 1853. http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010
  4. 4. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon Page 4 of 9 Thus, a single error in the Manuscript History had a ripple effect through several published accounts of the vision. These accounts are not independent 'proof' that Joseph was changing the story; they all depend upon a single initial error (which may have been caused by the 1838 or 1839 scribes). Sources which mention Moroni In contrast to the single source error mentioned above, there are multiple independent sources (originating with Joseph Smith and both friendly and hostile individuals) which demonstrate that the identification of the angel as "Moroni" was well-known and pre-dated the 1838/39 error. ■ D&C 27:5 - 1830–1835 Behold this is wisdom in me: wherefore marvel not for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel [modern edition D&C 27:5 (http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/27/5#5) ][8] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni% 27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_dc1) ■ Mormonism Unvailed - 1834, reprinted as History of Mormonism in 1840 [an anti-Mormon book] After he had finished translating the Book of Mormon, he again buried up the plates in the side of a mountain, by command of the Lord; some time after this, he was going through a piece of woods, on a by-path, when he discovered an old man dressed in ordinary grey apparel...The Lord told him that the man he saw was MORONI, with the plates, and if he had given him the five coppers, he might have got his plates again. (emphasis in original)[9] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_unvailed1) ■ Messenger and Advocate - 1835 I have now given you a rehearsal of what was communicated to our brother, when he was directed to go and obtain the record of the Nephites…and I believe that the angel Moroni, whose words I have been rehearsing, who communicated the knowledge of the record of the Nephites, in this age, saw also, before he hid up the same unto the Lord, great and marvelous things, which were to transpire when the same should come forth[10] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni% 27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_ma1) ■ Elders' Journal - July 1838 For those holy men are angels now. And these are they, who make the fulness of times complete with us. And they who sin against this authority given to him ... sins not against him only, but against Moroni, who holds the keys of the stick of Ephraim. (italics added)[11] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_ej1) ■ Elders' Journal - July 1838 How, and where did you obtain the book of Mormon?...Moroni, the person who deposited the plates, from whence the book of Mormon was translated, in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead, and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me and told me where they were and gave me directions how to obtain them. I obtained them and the Urim and Thummim with them, by the means of which I translated the plates and thus came the book of Mormon.[12] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_ej2) ■ Gospel Reflector - March 1841 http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010
  5. 5. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon Page 5 of 9 The 1835 Oliver Cowdery letter identifying "the angel Moroni" as the revealer of the golden plates was reprinted. [vol. 1, no. 6, March 1841, 161.] ■ Times and Seasons - April 1841 The 1835 Oliver Cowdery letter identifying "the angel Moroni" as the revealer of the golden plates was reprinted. [vol. 2, no. 11, 1 April 1841, 363]. ■ Pamphlet - 1844 The 1835 Oliver Cowdery letter identifying "the angel Moroni" as the revealer of the golden plates was reprinted. [Letters by Oliver Cowdery to W. W. Phelps on the Origin of the Book of Mormon (Liverpool: Thomas Ward and John Cairns, 1844), 31.] ■ D&C 128 (labeled 104 in 1844 edition) - 1844 And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed. (D&C 128:20 (http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/128/20#20) ). Conclusion This is not an example of Joseph Smith changing his story over time, but an example of a detail being improperly recorded by someone other than the Prophet, and then reprinted uncritically. Clear contemporary evidence from Joseph and his enemies—who would have seized upon any inconsistency had they known about it—shows that "Moroni" was the name of the heavenly messenger BEFORE the 1838 and 1839 histories were recorded. It is understandable that Joseph's associates could have misidentified "Moroni" as "Nephi" since Joseph also had contact with "Nephi" during the process of the Restoration. ■ “Who was it that administered to Joseph Smith? Moroni and Nephi, men who had lived upon this continent.”[13] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jd1) ■ “Afterwards the angel Moroni came to him and revealed to him the Book of Mormon, with the history of which you are generally familiar, and also with the statements that I am now making pertaining to these things. And then came Nephi, one of the ancient prophets, that had lived upon this continent, who had an interest in the welfare of the people that he had lived amongst in those days.”[14] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jd2) ■ “ If you will read the history of the Church from the beginning, you will find that Joseph was visited by various angelic beings, but not one of them professed to give him the keys until John the Baptist came to him. Moroni, who held the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim, visited Joseph; he had doubtless, also, visits from Nephi and it may be from Alma and others.”[15] (http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni#endnote_jd3) http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010
  6. 6. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon Page 6 of 9 Endnotes 1. [note] Letter, Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith to John Taylor, 18 December 1877; cited in Dean C. Jessee, ed., The Papers of Joseph Smith: Autobiographical and Historical Writings (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1989), 1:277, nt. 1. 2. [note] Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 1:11–12, footnote 2. BYU Studies link (http://byustudies.byu.edu/hc/hcpgs/hc.aspx?HC=/hc/1/1.html&A=11) 3. [note] Anon., "History of Joseph Smith (continued)," Times and Seasons 3 no. 12 (15 April 1842), 753. off-site (http://www.centerplace.org/history/ts/) GospeLink (http://gospelink.com/library/toc? book_id=487&tab=contents) (requires subscrip.) 4. [note] Anon., "History of Joseph Smith From the 'Times and Seasons'," Millennial Star 3 no. 4 (August 1842), 53. 5. [note] Anon., ""The Millennial Star. August 1, 1842," Millennial Star 3 no. 4 (August 1842), 71. 6. [note] Franklin D. Richards (publisher), The Pearl of Great Price, 1st edition (Liverpool: R. James, South Castle Street, 1851), 40–41. 7. [note] Lucy [Mack] Smith, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and his Progenitors for Many Generations, (London: Latter-Day Saints' Book Depot, 1853), 78–80. 8. [note] Doctrine and Covenants 50:2 (1835 edition); received August 1830, written September 1830 (See History of the Church, 1:106, nt. 3). 9. [note] Eber Dudley Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, Ohio: Telegraph Press, 1834), 277. 10. [note] Oliver Cowdery, Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 1 no. 7 (April 1835), 112. 11. [note] David W. Patten, Elder's Journal 1:3 (July 1838):42 (see also Millennial Star 1:126). 12. [note] Joseph Smith, Jr., Elders’ Journal 1:3 (July 1838): 42–43. 13. [note] John Taylor, "God’s Purposes Unchangeable," Journal of Discourses, reported by D.W. Evans, G.F. Gibbs, and others, (29 July 1877), vol. 19 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1878), 82. 14. [note] John Taylor, "How a Knowledge of God is Obtained," Journal of Discourses, reported by George F. Gibbs, John Irvine, and others, (7 December 1879), vol. 21 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1881), 161. 15. [note] George Q. Cannon, "Discourse...," Journal of Discourses, reported by D.W. Evans and John Grimshaw, (5 December 1869), vol. 13 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1871), 47. Further reading FAIR wiki articles First Vision wiki articles Overview ■ Summary article Leading up to the vision: ■ Methodist camp meetings in 1820 ■ Religious revivals in 1820 ■ Place of residence in 1820 http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010
  7. 7. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon Page 7 of 9 The vision: ■ First Vision accounts (summary) ■ 1832 account (overview) ■ Early understanding of God? ■ No new dispensation? ■ Different age? ■ Different motivation? ■ No persecution? ■ No revival? ■ Not forbidden to convert? ■ Wicked destroyed? ■ Only one Deity? ■ In heaven or earth? ■ Unconditional salvation? ■ Struggle with Satan? ■ 1835 account (overview) ■ Personages were angels? ■ 1838 account (overview) ■ 1820 Revival? ■ "It commenced with the Methodists" ■ Paul's accounts of his vision ■ Scholars solved discrepancies? ■ Can't see God without priesthood? After the vision: ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ No reference in 1830s publications? Seldom mentioned in LDS publications before 1877? No reference in non-LDS publications before 1843? Joseph saw "God" in 1830 publication? No published references to Father and Son until 1838? Joseph unsure of God in 1823? Lucy joined Presbyterians in 1823? Joined other churches? All churches wrong? Fabricated to bolster authority? Details added over time? Created to offset leadership crisis? Others' accounts: ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ George Q. Cannon Cowdery version of 1834-5? Orson Hyde Andrew Jenson Heber C. Kimball| Orson Pratt George A. Smith Lucy Mack Smith Orson Spencer http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010
  8. 8. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon ■ ■ ■ ■ Page 8 of 9 John Taylor Brigham never spoke of 1st vision? Brigham claimed an angel? Seldom published pre-1877 (short) ■ (long) Other criticisms: ■ D&C 121:28 contradicts vision? ■ Father: Spirit vs. Embodied ■ Personages seen by Joseph Joseph Smith other visionary issues wiki articles Moroni's visit: ■ Moroni's visit (summary) ■ Nephi or Moroni in 1823? ■ A "spirit" visited Joseph in 1827? ■ Moroni as an "angel of Satan" ■ Joseph Smith's early conception of God ■ Personages who appeared to Joseph Smith ■ Swedenborg and three degrees of glory [needs work] God wiki articles ■ The Father: A Spirit vs. Embodied ■ Lectures on Faith teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"? ■ Corporeality of God ■ God is "not a man"? ■ Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven? ■ Lectures on Faith teaches the Father is "a personage of spirit"? ■ Creatio ex nihilo / Creation out of nothing ■ Creation in Colossians 1:16 ■ Creation of spirits ■ Spirit children created by sexual union? ■ Dallin H. Oaks on God as seen by LDS and other Christians ■ Elohim and Jehovah ■ Downplaying the King Follett discourse by President Hinckley? ■ Do Mormons believe they will be "gods of their own planets"? ■ Does Elohim have a father God above him? ■ Foreknowledge of God ■ God is a Spirit ■ Book of Mormon says God is a spirit? ■ Godhead and the Trinity and Nicene creed ■ Sabellianism/modalism in the Book of Mormon? ■ Heavenly Mother? ■ Latter-day Saints believe in Celestial Sex? ■ Infinite regress of Gods? ■ Kolob ■ "No God beside me" - (includes Isaiah 43-46 issues) ■ No man has seen God http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010
  9. 9. Moroni's visit/Nephi or Moroni - FAIRMormon Page 9 of 9 ■ Polytheism - Are Mormons polytheists? ■ Spirit bodies for humans and 1 Cor 15 ■ Early Christians on literal resurrection ■ Theosis or human deification ■ Do Mormons believe they will be "gods of their own planets"? ■ Latter-day Saints believe in Celestial Sex? ■ Primary sources/Theosis ■ Unchanging Nature of God FAIR web site ■ Matthew B. Brown, "Historical or Hysterical—Anti-Mormons and Documentary Sources," presentation at the 2004 FAIR Conference. FAIR link (http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2004_Anti-Mormons_and_Documentary_Sources.html) (Key source) External links ■ Elden Watson and D. Charles Pyle, "The Nephi/Moroni Problem", mormonfortress.com. off-site (http://www.mormonfortress.com/nemor2.html) Retrieved from "http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni" Categories: First Vision | Needs work | Joseph Smith ■ This page was last modified on 24 May 2010, at 03:09. http://en.fairmormon.org/Moroni%27s_visit/Nephi_or_Moroni 14/06/2010

×