So what’s the problem
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So what’s the problem



Used with elementary teachers who responded well to learning how to better identify a problem during the RTI process. Thoughts and comments welcome! This is my first SlideShare!

Used with elementary teachers who responded well to learning how to better identify a problem during the RTI process. Thoughts and comments welcome! This is my first SlideShare!



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    So what’s the problem So what’s the problem Presentation Transcript

    • So What’s The Problem? Selecting skills to target for intervention
    • He has trouble with reading…
      • Because…
        • he doesn’t have phonemic awareness,
        • isn’t using phonics skills
        • doesn’t read with fluency
        • has poor vocabulary
        • isn’t comprehending what he reads
        • …or what exactly?
    • How would you describe a student’s comprehension problem?
      • He gets specifics but can’t answer higher order questions about the story
      • He does poorly on multiple choice questions about the story
      • He can’t retell a story orally
      • He can’t answer questions orally in class about what we are reading
      • He can’t summarize or write out thoughts about a story
      • All of the above!
    • Let’s consider each type of problem
      • He doesn’t get higher order questions. Why?
      • Is he able to do so on topics of interest e.g. science class discussions/projects? (and thus maybe it is a reading comprehension problem)
      • Is he rarely able to “get” more abstract concepts (and thus maybe has an ability problem)? CogAt can provide a clue.
    • He scores poorly on multiple choice questions about the text
      • But does he do better if the test is read aloud? (thus maybe it’s a more basic reading problem)
      • Does he get more concrete questions but miss the more abstract (maybe we are back to basic ability?)
      • Do his answers suggest a vocabulary problem? (he misses questions that require vocabulary knowledge)
    • He can answer questions in class but not on a test!
      • So maybe he understood the story when it was discussed but couldn’t read it well enough himself to gain understanding? (reading problem)
      • He can’t retell a story or tell me key features of it, even after discussion (ability? Memory?)
      • He does better in history tests than on reading tests. (memory for facts, higher interest items, less abstraction in non-fiction vs fiction?)
    • He can do multiple choice but can’t write a summary
      • Does the summary have good content but poor mechanics? (writing problem)
      • Can he talk about but not write about the story (written expression problem?)
      • Perhaps he is better at recognition (multiple choice) than recall (essay)
    • But he has trouble with all levels of comprehension and all modes of testing!
      • So then let’s look at fluency and vocabulary next
      • Is his speaking vocabulary similar to that of other students in his grade?
      • Does he have trouble with synonyms and antonyms (and thus doesn’t recognize them when reading)
      • How does he do on vocabulary tests?
      • If he reads fluently but isn’t sure of word meanings that may be impacting his comprehension, especially on higher order questions
    • Vocabulary seems OK? Then let’s look at fluency Words Per Minute (WPM)
      • WPM gives you a fluency score but the important part is determining why a child is not fluent!
      • Few but accurate WPM suggests slow decoding, thus loss of sentence meaning. Try to build fluency.
      • Many and accurate WPM but poor expression suggests focus on words and a loss of meaning. Work on expression.
    • Fluency
      • Low WPM with numerous errors suggests a basic reading (decoding) problem. Assess word reading.
      • High WPM with errors, substitutions, omissions, losing place, etc. suggests a reading disability of various kinds. Analyze word reading errors to figure out what kind.
    • Some examples
      • Tiffany
      • Colin
      • Robbie
      • Susie
      • 4 th grader in ATeam
    • OK, we’ve got lots of errors on the fluency passage, now what?
      • Hmmm, starting to look more like a decoding problem, reading disability, visual or auditory processing??
      • Let’s try word lists rather than passages and analyze the errors.
    • Error Analysis of Misread Words
      • Was/saw, bib/dig, ton/not, black/block, etc. may suggest visual processing and are “LDish”
      • Pencil/pesnil, aluminum/aminilum, simpson/smispin etc. may suggest auditory sequential processing and are “LDish”
      • Missing phonics rules are usually apparent and could be just missed instruction (e.g. never did get those long vowel rules)
    • And if the problem is more than that?
      • Does the child show an understanding of letter/sound relationships? What is his level of phonetic understanding? CVC but not CVCe?
      • Does he show phonemic awareness? Is he hearing and identifying sounds?
      • Does he recognize all of his letters?
    • Why isn’t she learning her letters and sounds?
      • Ability? Memory? Processing? Attention? Readiness?
      • Ability? Does she seem to have the same level of understanding on general topics as other students her age?
      • She knows it today but not tomorrow! Memory?
    • Letters and Numbers
      • Processing. Doesn’t seem to get symbols of language
      • Attention Can she attend to high interest activities? Is she responding to expectations to attend?
      • Readiness What is her prior experience? Maturity level compared to peers?
    • Symbols of language
      • b d p q h j
      • c o e s z
      • l t i f k
      • m n v w x y
      • Oh, and each one represents a sound? And if you put some together they might make a different sound?
      • How does anyone learn to read?!
    • It’s math but is it calculation, problem solving, or reading, no, maybe memory??
      • Math difficulties come in many forms!
      • Solving a math problem involves:
        • Reading it correctly
        • Knowing how to solve it
        • Keeping all the information in mind
        • Applying the right calculation process
        • Calculating it correctly
    • How much of this is a reading or memory problem?
      • Doing better with read aloud is one clue but…
      • Students with working memory difficulties can’t remember what you just read to them
      • Some students also have trouble retaining both numbers and language (Did Susie have more or was it Sarah? Susie had 12 but I forget how many that other girl had!)
      • If the child can do the calculation after you step him through the process, it’s more of a process problem
      • Having the student read aloud a problem to you and discuss it may help answer these questions
    • Math Disabilities are often Working Memory Disabilities
      • Can the student hold 2- 3-step directions in mind long enough to follow them?
      • When questioned can he recall both names and numbers in a problem?
      • Has the student committed math facts and formulas to memory? If not, the student is using up working memory on facts and there’s not much left for problem solving!
    • What do you think the problem is here?
      • Mary’s car get 23 mpg. How far can she drive on five gallons?
      • OK, that’s 23 x 5, hmmm, that’s 105, I got it!
      • Yep, regrouping. She knew what to do, and probably knew that 3 x 5 is 15, but didn’t correctly regroup the 1 to the tens place.
    • But what about this student?
      • Bob’s car gets 30 mpg. How far can he drive on 5 gallons?
      • Hmmm, oh, yeah, 35!
      • Oops, he doesn’t understand the problem although he can add pretty well!
    • What is this 4 th grade child’s problem?
      • Four people each have 30 dollars. How much do they have together?
      • OK, 30 + 30 + 30 + 30. That’s …0, 123, 456, 789, 10,11,12. OK, 120.
      • Yep, two things: he doesn’t get the relationship between adding and multiplying; and he does not have a fluent use of math facts.
    • And here?
      • If you buy a ball for 45 cents and a pencil for 28 cents how much change would you get back from $1?
      • Susie: 73 cents!
      • Joe: 26 cents!
      • Rebecca: 17 cents!
      • Sam: How much was the pencil?
      • Stan: Where can you get a ball for 45 cents?
    • What do you mean, “LDish”?
      • Impulsive
      • mispronounces words in reading either from visual or auditory processing problems
      • Can’t keep things in memory or remembers them out of order
      • Particular types of spelling/writing errors (not just wen for when but presnet for present)
    • LDishness
      • Mispronounces, substitutes, omits, loses place in reading
      • Does not notice that her written work does not match a model
      • Doesn’t notice spacing, frequent erasures
      • For example, an upbeat, talkative, 4 th grader who thought she had done this assignment well
    • Finding the problem… can be a problem.
      • But it drives interventions and
      • Allows rebuilding skills from where they were missed
      • It’s all a process and we’re all here to help!