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THE NATURAL STATE
In the Words of U.G. Krishnamurti
Thursday, July 07, 2005
U.G. KRISHNAMURTI (Courtesy J. Thayer)
CONTENTS

Introduction
Chapter One: 1972-1980 -- India and Switzerland
Chapter Two: 1982 -- India, Switzerland and California
Chapter Three: 1983-1984 -- Amsterdam
Chapter Four: 1985-1990 -- India, Switzerland, Australia, Netherlands and U.K.
Chapter Five: 1990 -- Various places
Afterword
Introduction
“Here is the end of seeking,
you who are weary of the road”
This compilation of quotes by U.G. Krishnamurti can alter your life. Someone once said to his
daughter who had met U.G., “Damned be the day you met this man; your life will never be the
same.” Whether we feel cursed or blessed, our coming upon the unique life/energy that is
U.G. can change our life forever.
This book, an anthology of U.G.’s conversations, taken from many sources, offers some of the
most startling and penetrating of U.G.’s words in short, easy to read paragraphs. The
selections link together various statements of U.G.’s in a way that creates a sense of
cohesiveness. The overall effect of the book can stun the reader into a recognition of the
futility of many of his deepest-held convictions about life. Even if one is familiar with U.G.’s
way of seeing things, this book offers a comprehensive overview that provides a useful
clarification. If you have newly discovered U.G through this book, be prepared to experience

something so unusual that it cannot be placed in any category of human thought.
Don’t underestimate the power of his words. Here is an original thinker unlike anyone you’ve
ever come across before. The hundred thousand books of clichéd thoughts on spirituality,
psychology and self-help available today offer you ways that are congenial to what you
already know. U.G. merely offers to shatter what you know and not to replace it with
anything, no new technique, or discipline or way. Are you ready to be shattered, to have your
beliefs stripped away and then not be given anything new to hang on to? Then read this book.
It’s not a way beyond all the other ways. It’s outside of ways altogether.
If you shock easily, this may not be for you. Yet there is love here too, though U.G. would
never use the word love. A love that can take away everything you thought you were and
leave a yearning for more of this strange alchemy that is U.G. So even if you do shock easily,
this may be the very thing for you. U.G. is not a teacher in the usual sense of the word. He is
perhaps more of a phenomenon of nature--something outside of what human beings have
created. Something happened to him in his 49th year, an acausal release from the dominance
of the thought structure that encases human beings. U.G. calls this state he is in “the natural
state” and he functions with great clarity and efficiency in this state. Now in his 80’s, U.G.
travels around the world visiting friends and talking to people from all walks of life. He does
not give you anything to replace your current belief system. But if you see how penetrating his
analysis of human belief is, you may be forced to drop many of your most cherished ideas
about life. This can free you to some extent, and you may find your life becoming simpler not
through any effort of yours but simply because you no longer have to carry the burden of so
many belief structures. U.G. is not interested in converting you to a new religion or to any
belief system whatsoever. He expresses a unique point of view and tells you to take it or leave
it. He is not trying to make you into a better person. In fact, he says that you don’t need to
change anything and that it is our tragedy that we are constantly trying to change ourselves.
Who you are is completely unique, yet you are trying to model yourself after another, usually
one of the “saints, sages, or saviors of mankind.”

In the end, what you are left with after your encounter with U.G.--either through his words or
his actual presence--is the feeling that something different has happened to you, but you can’t
quite say what it is. You feel that somehow your life has changed, but you don’t know in what
way. There is a kind of energy you feel underneath things, perhaps a slight burning in your
heart--you’ve entered a world that you never knew existed and you will never be the same
again. And you can’t even say whether this is a curse or blessing, but you know you would
never trade your encounter with U.G. for anything in this life--no matter what it cost you.
So if you have the guts to allow your whole way of seeing things to be changed, by all means
read this book: life’s own energy, freed from thought, is here.
Larry Morris
Albuquerque, New Mexico
April 2004
Chapter One: 1972-1980 -- India and Switzerland
Whatever you do in the pursuit of truth or reality takes you away from your own very natural
state in which you always are. It's not something you can acquire, attain or accomplish as a
result of your effort. All that you do makes it impossible for what already is there to express
itself. That is why I call this your natural state. You're always in that state. What prevents
what is there from expressing itself in its own way is the search. The search is always in the
wrong direction.
So all that you consider very profound, all that you consider sacred, is a contamination in that
consciousness. You may not like the word contamination but all that you consider sacred, holy
and profound is a contamination. There's nothing that you can do, it's not in your hands. This
is something which I can't give because you have it. It is ridiculous to ask for a thing which
you already have. There isn't anything to get from anybody. You have what I have. I say you
are there.
I was brought up in a very religious atmosphere. My grandfather was a very cultured man. He

had learned men on his payroll and he dedicated himself for some reason to create a profound
atmosphere for me and to educate me in the right way, and so every morning those fellows
would come and read the scriptures, the commentaries, the whole lot, from four o'clock to six
o'clock, and this little boy of five, six or seven years got to listen to all that crap.
So many holy men visited my house. You name it. That was an open house for every holy
man. And one thing I discovered when I was quite young was that they were all hypocrites.
Everybody was false, I can tell you. So somehow, what you call existentialist nausea--
revulsion against everything sacred and everything holy--crept into my system and threw
everything out.
That was the beginning of my search. I did everything, all the austerities. I was so young but I
was determined to find out if there was any such thing as enlightenment. I wanted that very
much. Otherwise, I wouldn't have given my life. Then my real search began. All my religious
background was there in me. Then I started exploring. For some years I studied psychology
and also philosophy, Eastern and Western, mysticism, all the modern sciences, everything.
The whole area of human knowledge I started exploring on my own.
I had so many powers, so many experiences, but I didn't pay any attention to them. The
moment I saw someone I could see their entire past, present and future without their telling me
anything. I didn't use them. I was wondering, puzzled, you see, “Why do I have this power?”
Sometimes I said things and they always happened. I couldn't figure out the mechanism of
that. I tried to. They always happened. I didn't play with it.
There was no will. I didn't know what I was doing. By this time the whole thing had gone out
of my system. There was no search in me, no seeking after something, but something funny
was going on. All kinds of funny things happened to me. I remember when I rubbed my body
there was a sparkle like a phosphorous glow. Very strange things happened to me but I never
related those things to liberation or freedom because by that time the whole thing had gone out
of my system.
The whole thing is finished for me and that's all. The linking gets broken and once it is broken
it is finished. Then it is not once that thought explodes--every time a thought arises it
explodes. The division cannot remain, it's a physical impossibility. You don't have to do a

thing about it. That is why I say that when this explosion takes place (I use the word explosion
because it's like a nuclear explosion) it leaves behind chain-reactions. Every cell in your body
has to undergo this change.
It's an irreversible change. There's no question of your going back. It is like a nuclear
explosion. It shatters the whole body. It is not an easy thing. It is the end of the man, such a
shattering thing that it blasts every cell, every nerve in your body. I went through terrible
physical torture at that moment; not that you experience the explosion--you can't experience
the explosion--but its after-effects. The fallout is the thing that changes the whole chemistry of
your body. The senses are operating now without any coordinator or center, that's all I can say.
Unless that alchemy or change in the whole chemistry takes place, there is no way of freeing
this organism from thought, from the continuity of thought.
The blinking of the eyes stopped and then there were changes in taste, smell and hearing. I
noticed that my skin was soft like silk and had a peculiar kind of glow, a golden color.
I no longer spend time in reverie, worry, conceptualization and the other kinds of thinking that
most people do when they're alone. My mind is only engaged when it's needed. My memory is
in the background and only comes into play when it's needed, automatically. When it's not
needed there is no mind here, there is no thought; there is only life.
My body had gone away and it has never come back. The points of contact are all that is there
for the body. Nothing else is there for me because the seeing is altogether independent of the
sense of touch here. I had discovered that all my senses were without any coordination. I felt
the life energy drawing to a focal point from different parts of my body. Even now it happens
to me. The hands and feet become cold, the body becomes stiff, the heartbeat slows down, the
breathing slows down and then there is a gasping for breath. Up to a point you are there. You
breathe your last breath, as it were, and then you are finished.
What happens after that, nobody knows. How long it lasted I don't know. I can't say anything
about that because the experiencer was finished. There was nobody to experience that death at
all. So that was the end of it. I got up. The things that had astonished me that week had
become permanent fixtures. I call all these events a calamity because from the point of view of
one who thinks this is something fantastic, blissful, full of love, ecstasy and all that kind of a

thing, this is physical torture. Not a calamity to me but to those who have an image that
something marvelous is going to happen.
It's something like you imagine New York. You dream about it. You want to be there. When
you are actually there, nothing of it is there. It is a godforsaken place and even the devils have
probably forsaken that place. It's not the thing that you had sought after and wanted so much
but totally different.
What is there you really don't know. You have no way of knowing anything about that. There
is no image here. Then suddenly, there was an outburst of tremendous energy shaking the
whole body, vibrating. It lasted for hours. I couldn't bear it but there was nothing I could do to
stop it. There was a total helplessness. This went on and on, day after day. Whenever I sat, it
started--this vibration like an epileptic fit or something. Not even an epileptic fit; it went on
for days. It was a very painful process because the body has limitations. It has a form, a shape
of its own.
So when there is an outburst of energy which is not your energy or my energy but God's (call
it by any name you like) it is like a river in spate. The energy that is operating there does not
feel the limitations of the body. It is not interested. It has its own momentum. It is a very
painful thing. It is not ecstatic, blissful and all that rubbish, stuff and nonsense. It is really a
painful thing.
Oh I suffered for months before and after that, everybody has--a great cascade; not one but
thousands. It went on and on for months. It's a very painful experience, painful in the sense
that the energy has a peculiar operation of its own. It is clockwise, counterclockwise, and then
it is this way, and then this way, and then this way. Like an atom, it moves inside--not in one
part of your body--the whole body. It is as if a wet towel were being wrung to get rid of the
water. It is like that--the whole of our body. It's such a painful thing. It goes on even now. You
can't invite it. You can't ask it to come. You can't do anything. It gives you the feeling that it is
enveloping you, that it is descending on you.
Every time it is new. Very strange, every time it comes in a different way. So you don't know
what is happening. You lie down on your bed and suddenly it begins. It begins to move slowly
like ants. I'd think there were bugs in my bed, jump out, look, see no bugs, then I'd go back,

then again. The hairs are electrified. So it slowly moves. There were pains all over the body.
Thought has controlled this body to such an extent that when that loosens, the whole
metabolism is agog. The whole thing was changing in its own way without my doing
anything. Every cell started changing and it went on and on for six months. In all, it took three
years for this body to fall into a new rhythm of its own. I behaved normally. I didn't know
what was happening. It was a strange situation.
The state is something natural. Do you see the swellings here? Yesterday was the new moon.
The body is affected by everything that is happening around you. It is not separate. Whatever
is happening there is also happening here. There is only the physical response. This is
affection. Your body is affected by everything that is happening around you, and you can't
prevent this for the simple reason that the armor that you have built around yourself is
destroyed. So it is very vulnerable to everything that is happening there.
There are certain glands. These ductless glands are located in exactly the same spots where the
Hindus speculated the chakras are. They have feelings, extraordinary feelings. There is one
gland here which is called the thymus gland. Doctors tell us that is active through childhood
until puberty then becomes dormant. In your natural state that gland is reactivated.
[Up and down his torso, neck and head, his friends observed swellings of various shapes and
colors which came and went at intervals. On his lower abdomen, the swellings were
horizontal, cigar-shaped bands. Above the navel was a hard, almond-shaped swelling. A hard,
blue swelling like a large medallion in the middle of his chest was surmounted by another
smaller, brownish-red, medallion-shaped swelling at the base of his throat. These were as
though suspended from a varicolored, swollen ring--blue, brownish and light yellow--around
his neck. His throat was swollen to a shape that made his chin seem to rest on the head of a
cobra, as in the traditional images of Shiva. Just above the bridge of the nose was a white,
lotus-shaped swelling. All over the head the small blood vessels expanded, forming patterns
like the stylized lumps on the heads of Buddha statues. The arteries in his neck expanded and
rose, blue and snake-like, into his head.]
If somebody hurts himself there that hurt is felt here, not as a pain but there is a feeling, you

see. This actually happened to me when I was staying in a coffee plantation. A mother started
beating a child. Then I found all those things on my back. So I was also part of that. I am not
saying this just to claim something. That is possible because consciousness cannot be divided.
Anything that is happening there is affecting you.
If another is hurt there, you also are hurt here. If you are hurt, there is an immediate response
there. You are responding, all the glands. There are so many glands here. For example, the
pituitary--the third eye, it's called. When once the interference of thought is finished it is taken
over by this gland. It is this gland that gives the instructions or orders to the body, not thought
anymore, thought cannot interfere. I'm not interpreting or any such thing. Perhaps this gives
you an idea.
But you have built an armor, created an armor, with this thought and you don't allow yourself
to be affected by things. Since there is nobody who uses this thought as a self-protective
mechanism it burns itself up. Thought undergoes combustion--ionization, if I may use your
scientific term. Thought is, after all, vibration. When this kind of ionization of thought takes
place it sometimes covers the whole body with an ash-like substance. Your body is covered
with that when there is no need for thought at all. When you don't use it what happens to that
thought? It burns itself out. That is the energy. It's a combustion. The body gets heated, you
know. There is tremendous heat in the body as a result of this, and so the skin is covered--your
face, your feet, everything--with this ash-like substance.
That's one of the reasons why I express it in pure and simple physical and physiological terms.
It has no psychological content at all. It has no mystical content. It has no religious overtones
at all, as I see it. I am bound to say that and I don't care whether you accept it or not. It is of no
importance to me.
This kind of a thing must have happened to so many people. It is not something that one is
specially prepared for. There are no purificatory methods necessary. There is no spiritual
practice necessary for this kind of a thing to happen, no preparation of any kind. The
consciousness is so pure that whatever you are doing in the direction of purifying that
consciousness is adding impurity to it. Consciousness has to flush itself out, it has to purge
itself of every trace of holiness, every trace of unholiness, everything. Even what you consider

sacred and holy is a contamination in that consciousness.
It is not through any volition of yours. When once the frontiers are broken--not through any
effort of yours, not through any volition of yours--then the floodgates are open and everything
goes out. In that process of flushing out you have all these visions. It's not a vision outside
there or inside of you. Suddenly, your whole consciousness takes the shape of those people
who have come into this state. Not great men, not the leaders of mankind, it is very strange,
but only those people to whom this kind of a thing happened.
Hundreds of people, probably something happened to so many hundreds of people. This is
part of history--so many rishis, some Westerners, monks, so many women, and sometimes
very strange things. You see, all that people have experienced before you is part of your
consciousness. They run out of your consciousness because they cannot stay there any more,
because all that is impurity, a contamination there.
You can say probably it is because of the impact on the human consciousness of the
explosions of all those saints, sages and saviors of mankind that there is this dissatisfaction in
you, that whatever is there is all the time trying to burst out, as it were. Maybe that is so. I
can't say anything about it. You can say that they are there because they are pushing you to
this point and once the purpose is achieved they have finished their job and they go away. But
this flushing out of everything good and bad, holy and unholy, sacred and profane, has got to
happen. Otherwise, your consciousness is still contaminated, still impure. During that time, it
goes on and on, there are hundreds and thousands of them. Then, you see, you are put back
into that primeval, primordial state of consciousness.
Once it has become pure, of and by itself, then nothing can touch it, nothing can contaminate
that any more. All the past up to that point is there but it cannot influence your actions any
more. All these visions and everything were happening for three years after the calamity. Now
the whole thing is finished. The divided state of consciousness cannot function at all any
more. It is always in the undivided state of consciousness.
Nothing can touch that. Anything can happen. The thought can be a good thought, a bad
thought. It doesn't matter what comes there--good, bad, holy, unholy. The whole thing is
finished. That is why I have to use the phrase religious experience, not in the sense in which

you use the word religion. It puts you back to the Source. You are back in that primeval,
primordial, pure state of consciousness. Call it awareness or whatever you like. In that state,
things are happening and there is nobody who is interested, nobody who is looking at them.
They come and go in their own way.
The most puzzling and bewildering part of the whole thing was when the sensory activities
began their independent careers. There was no coordinator linking the senses. Like a baby I
had to learn everything all over. All the knowledge was in the background and never came to
the forefront, you see. But I knew that something really fantastic had happened inside. What it
was I didn't know but that didn't bother me. That bewildering situation continued for a long
time. All the knowledge was in the background. It's the same situation even now. When I am
looking at something I really don't know what I'm looking at. That is why I say it is a state of
not knowing. I really don't know. Once you are there through some luck, some strange chance,
from then on everything happens in its own way.
You are always in a natural state. There is no question of going in and out of it, you are always
there. It is a state of not knowing, you really don't know what you are looking at. I can't do
anything about it, there is no question of my going back or anything, it is all finished. It is
operating and functioning in a different way.
Somehow, you see, by some luck, by some strange chance, this kind of thing happens, and the
whole thing is finished for you. The background is the only thing that can express itself. What
else is there? My expression of it is the background--how I struggled, my path, how I rejected
the paths of others. Up to that point I can say what I did or what I did not do and that it did not
help me in any way.
If people come and ask me questions I answer. If they don't it makes no difference to me. I
have not set myself up in the holy business of liberating people. I have no particular message
for mankind except to say that all holy systems for obtaining enlightenment are bunk and that
all talk of arriving at a psychological mutation through awareness is poppycock. Psychological
mutation is impossible. The natural state can happen only through biological mutation.
There is no teaching of mine and never shall be one. A teaching implies a method or a system,

a technique or a new way of thinking to be applied in order to bring about a transformation in
your way of life. What I am saying is outside the field of teachability. It is simply a
description of the way I am functioning. It is just a description of the natural state of man. This
is the way you, stripped of the machinations of thought, are also functioning. The natural state
is not the state of a self-realized, God-realized man. It is not a thing to be achieved or attained.
It is not a thing to be willed into existence. It is there. It is the living state.
This state is just the functional activity of life. By life I do not mean something abstract but
the life of the senses functioning naturally without the interference of thought. Thought is an
interloper which thrusts itself into the affairs of the senses. It has a profit motive. Thought
directs the activity of the senses to get something out of them and uses them to give continuity
to itself.
Your natural state has no relationship whatsoever with the religious states of bliss and ecstasy.
They lie within the field of experience. Those who have led man on his search for
religiousness throughout the centuries have perhaps experienced those religious states, so can
you. They are thought-induced states of being and as they come so do they go. All are trips in
the wrong direction. They are all within the field of time. Timeless can never be experienced,
grasped, contained, much less given expression to, by any man. That beaten track will lead
you nowhere. There is no oasis situated yonder. You are stuck with the mirage.
This state is a physical condition of your being. It is not some kind of psychological mutation.
It is not a state of mind into which you can fall one day and out of the next. You can't imagine
the extent to which, as you are now, thought pervades and interferes with the functioning of
every cell in your body. Coming into your natural state will blast every cell, every gland,
every nerve. It is a chemical change. An alchemy of some sort takes place. But this state has
nothing to do with the experiences of chemical drugs. Those are experiences, this is not.
Does such a thing as enlightenment exist? To me what does exist is a purely physical process.
There is nothing mystical or spiritual about it. If I close the eyes some light penetrates through
the eyelids. If I cover the eyelids there is still light inside. There seems to be some kind of a
hole in the forehead which doesn't show but through which something penetrates. In India that

light is golden, in Europe it is blue. There is also some kind of light penetration through the
back of the head. It's as if there is a hole running through between those spots in front and
back of the skull. There is nothing inside but this light. If you cover those points there is
complete, total darkness. This light doesn't do anything or help the body to function in any
way, it's just there.
This state is a state of not knowing. You really don't know what you are looking at. All there
is inside is wonderment. It is a state of wonder because I just do not know what I am looking
at. The knowledge about it, all that I have learned, is held in the background unless there is a
demand. When required it comes quickly like an arrow, then I am back in the state of not
knowing, of wonder.
You can never understand the tremendous peace that is always there within you that is your
natural state. Your trying to create a peaceful state of mind is in fact creating disturbance
within you. You can only talk of peace, create a state of mind and say to yourself that you are
very peaceful, but that is not peace, that is violence. There is no use in practicing peace or
reason to cultivate silence. Real silence is explosive. It is not the dead state of mind that
spiritual seekers think. That doesn't mean anything at all. This is volcanic in its nature. It's
bubbling all the time--the energy, the life--that is its quality.
Life is aware of itself, if we can put it that way. It is conscious of itself. When I talk of feeling
I do not mean the same thing that you do. Actually, feeling is a physical response, a thud in
the thymus. The thymus, one of the endocrine glands, is located under the breast bone. When
you come into your natural state, sensations are felt there. You don't translate them as good or
bad. They are just a thud. If there is a movement outside of you in your field of vision, that
movement is also felt in the thymus. The whole of your being is that movement, or vibrates
with that sound. There is no separation. This does not mean that you identify yourself with it.
There is no you there, nor is there any object. What causes that sensation you don't know. You
do not even know that it is a sensation.
Affection (this is not my interpretation of the word) means that you are affected by everything,
not that some emotion flows from you towards something. The natural state is a state of great
sensitivity, but this is a physical sensitivity of the senses, not some kind of emotional

compassion or tenderness for others. There is compassion only in the sense that there are no
others for me and so there is no separation. Actually, there is always a gap between any two
sensations. The coordinator bridges that gap, establishes itself as an illusion of continuity. In
the natural state, there is no entity coordinating the messages from the different senses, each
sense is functioning independently in its own way.
When there is a demand from outside which makes it necessary to coordinate the senses and
come up with a response, still there is no coordinator but there is a temporary state of
coordination. There is no continuity. When the demand has been met, again there is only the
uncoordinated, disconnected, disjointed functioning of the senses. This is always the case.
Once the continuity is blown apart ,not that it was ever there but the illusory continuity, it's
finished once and for all.
All that you know lies within the framework of your experience, which is of thought. This
state is not an experience. I am only trying to give you a feel of it, which is, unfortunately,
misleading. When there is no coordinator, there is no linking of sensations, there is no
translating of sensations. They stay pure and simple sensations. I do not even know that they
are sensations. I may look at you as you are talking. The eyes will focus on your mouth
because that is what is moving and the ears will receive the sound vibrations. There is nothing
inside which links up the two and says that it is you talking.
What functions is a primordial consciousness untouched by thought. The eyes are like a very
sensitive camera. The physiologists say that light reflected off objects strikes the retina of the
eye and the sensation goes through the optic nerve to the brain. The faculty of sight, of seeing,
is simply a physical phenomenon. It makes no difference to the eyes what they are focused on,
they produce sensations in exactly the same way. The eyes look on everyone and everything
without discrimination. Left to themselves they do not linger but are moving all the time. They
are drawn by the things outside. Movement attracts them, or brightness, or a color which
stands out from whatever is around it.
There is no self looking. The consciousness is like a mirror reflecting whatever is there
outside. The depth, the distance, the color--everything is there, but there is nobody who is
translating these things. Unless there is a demand for knowledge about what I am looking at,

there is no separation, no distance from what is there. There is a kind of clarity.
The eyes do not blink except when there is sudden danger. This is something very natural
because things outside are demanding attention all the time. Then when the eyes are tired they
may be open but the vision is blurred. If they stay open all the time, if the reflex action of
blinking is not operating, they become dry and there are some glands beyond the outer corners
of the eyes, not activated in your case, which act as a watering mechanism. But by practicing
not blinking one will not arrive in this state, one will only strain the eyes. Once you are in
your natural state, by some luck or some strange chance, all this happens in its own way.
When I am walking and suddenly see something different because the light has changed, this
consciousness suddenly expands to the size of the object in front of the body and the lungs
take a deep breath. This is pranayama, not hyperventilation or inhaling through one nostril and
exhaling through the other. This pranayama is going on all the time. So there is consciousness
of a sudden change in the breathing and then it moves on to something else. It is always
moving. It does not linger on something which thought has decided is beautiful. There is no
one directing.
As for listening, when you leave the sense of hearing alone all that is there is the vibration of
the sound. The words repeat themselves inside of you as in an echo chamber. This sense is
functioning in just the same way with you except that you think the words you are hearing
come from outside of you.
Get this straight--you can never hear one word from anyone no matter how intimately you
think you are in relationship with that person. You hear only your own translations always.
They are all your words you are hearing. All that the other person's words can possibly be to
you is a noise, a vibration picked up by the eardrum and transferred to the nerves which run to
the brain. You are translating those vibrations all the time trying to understand because you
want to get something out of what you are hearing. When there is no translation, all languages
sound the same whether or not your particular knowledge structure speaks a particular
language. The only differences are in the spacing of the syllables and in the tune. Languages
are melodic in different ways but the appreciation of music, poetry and language is all

culturally determined and is the product of thought.
Your movement of thought interferes with the process of touch just as it does with the other
senses. Anything you touch is always translated as hard, soft, warm, cold, wet, dry and so on.
Without this thought process there is no body consciousness, there are only isolated points of
contact, impulses of touch which are not tied together by thought. So the body is not different
from the objects around it. It is a set of sensations like any others. Your body does not belong
to you.
Perhaps I can give you the feel of this. I sleep for four hours at night no matter what time I go
to bed then I lie in bed until morning fully awake. I don't know what is lying there in the bed. I
don't know whether I'm lying on my left side or my right side. For hours and hours I lie like
this. If there is any noise outside, it just echoes in me. I listen to my heartbeat and don't know
what it is.
There are only the sensations of touch from points of contact and the gravitational pull,
nothing inside links up these things. Even if the eyes are open and looking at the whole body
there are still only the points of contact and they have no connection with what I am looking
at. If I want to try to link up these points of contact into the shape of my own body probably I
will succeed but by the time it is completed the body is back in the same situation of different
points of contact. The linkage cannot stay.
My talking comes out in response to the questions which are asked. I cannot sit and give a talk
on the natural state. That is an artificial situation for me. There is nobody who is thinking
thoughts and then coming out with answers. This state is expressing itself. I really don't know
what I'm saying and what I'm saying is of no importance. You may transcribe my own talking
but it will make no sense to me. It is a dead thing.
What is here, this natural state, is a living thing. It cannot be captured by me, let alone by you.
It's like a flower. This simile is all I can give. It just blooms. It's there. As long as it is there it
has a fragrance which is different and distinct from that of every other flower. You may not
recognize it. It's of no importance. You can't preserve its perfume. Whatever you preserve of
this is not the living thing. Preserving the expressions, teachings or words of such a man has
no meaning. This state has only contemporary value, contemporary expression.

The natural needs of a human being are basic: food, clothing and shelter. You must either
work for them or be given them by somebody. If these are your only needs they are not very
difficult to fulfill. To deny yourself the basic needs is not a sign of spirituality. But to require
more than food, clothing and shelter is a neurotic state of mind.
Is not sex a basic human requirement? Sex is dependent upon thought. In the natural state,
there is no build-up of thought. Without that build-up sex is impossible. The body normally is
a very peaceful organism and then you subject it to this tremendous tension and release which
feels pleasurable to you. Actually, it is painful to the body. But through suppression or
attempts at sublimation of sex you will never come into this state.
As long as you think of God you will have thoughts of sex. Ask any religious seeker you may
know who practices celibacy whether he doesn't dream of women at night. Why do you weave
so many taboos and ideas around this? Why do you destroy the joy of sex? Not that I am
advocating indulgence or promiscuity but through abstinence and continence you will never
achieve a thing.
There must be a living contact. There are no images here. There is no room for them. The
sensory apparatus is completely occupied with the things I am looking at now. And so, if you
are totally tuned in to the sensory activity, there is no room for fears about who will feed you
tomorrow or for speculation about God, truth and reality. This is not a state of omniscience
wherein all of man's eternal questions are answered, rather a state in which the questioning has
stopped. It has stopped because those questions have no relation to the way the organism is
functioning, and the way the organism is functioning leaves no room for those questions.
The body has an extraordinary mechanism for renewing itself. This is necessary because the
senses in the natural state are functioning at the peak of their sensitivity all the time. So when
the senses become tired the body goes through death. This is real physical death not some
mental state. It can happen one or more times a day. You do not decide to go through this
death. It descends upon you.
It feels, at first, as if you have been given an anaesthetic. The senses become increasingly dull,
the heartbeat slows, the feet and hands become ice cold and the whole body becomes stiff like

a corpse. Energy flows from all over the body towards some point. It happens differently
every time. The stream of thoughts continues but there is no reading of the thoughts. At the
end of this period you conk out. The stream of thought is cut. There is no way of knowing
how long that cut lasts.
There is nothing you can say about that time of being conked out. That can never become part
of your conscious existence or conscious thinking. You don't know what brings you back from
death. If you had any will at that moment you could decide not to come back. When the
conking out is over, the stream of thought picks up exactly where it left off. The dullness ends
and clarity returns. The body feels very stiff then slowly it begins to move of its own accord,
limbering itself up. It is an extraordinary movement. Those who have observed my body
moving say it looks like the motions of a newly born baby. This conking out gives a total
renewal of the senses, glands and nervous system. After it, they function at the peak of their
sensitivity.
Life is action. Questioning your actions is destroying the expression of life. A person who lets
life act in its own way without the protective movement of thought has no self to defend. What
is keeping you from being in your natural state? You are constantly moving away from
yourself. You want to be happy either permanently or at least for this moment. You are
dissatisfied with your everyday experiences and so you want some new ones. You want to
perfect yourself, to change yourself. You are reaching out, trying to be something other than
what you are. It is this that is taking you away from yourself.
Society has put before you the ideal of a perfect man. No matter in which culture you were
born, you have scriptural doctrines and traditions handed down to you to tell you how to
behave. You are told that through due practice you can even eventually come into the state
attained by the sages and saints, and so you try to control your behavior, to control your
thoughts, to be something unnatural. Your effort to control life has created a secondary
movement of thought within you which you call the self.
This movement of thought within you is parallel to the movement of life but isolated from it.
It can never touch life. You are a living creature yet you lead your entire life within the realm

of this isolated, parallel movement of thought. You cut yourself off from life. That is
something very unnatural. The natural state is not a thoughtless state. That is one of the
greatest hoaxes perpetrated for thousands of years. You will never be without thought. Being
able to think is necessary to survive but in this state thought stops choking you. It falls into its
natural rhythm.
This is the crux of the whole problem. The one that is looking at what you call the self is the
self. It is creating an illusory division of itself into subject and object, and through this
division it is continuing. This is the divisive nature that is operating in you, in your
consciousness. Continuity of its existence is all that interests it. As long as you want to
understand yourself or to change yourself into something spiritual, into something holy,
beautiful or marvelous, you will continue. If you do not want to do anything about it, it is not
there. It's gone.
Through thinking you cannot understand a thing. You are translating what I am saying in
terms of the knowledge you already have just as you translate everything else, because you
want to get something out of it. When you stop doing that, what is there is what I am
describing. The absence of what you are doing--trying to understand or trying to change
yourself--is the state of being that I am describing. Because you are not interested in the
everyday things and happenings around you, you have invented the beyond, timelessness,
God, truth, reality, enlightenment or whatever, and search for it.
There may not be any ultimate truth. You don't know a thing about it. Whatever you know is
what you have been told, what you have heard, and you are projecting that information. What
you call something is determined by the learning you have about it, and whatever knowledge
you have about it is exactly what you will experience. The knowledge creates the experience
and the experience then strengthens the knowledge. What you know can never be ultimate
reality.
In the natural state the movement of self is absent. The absence of this movement probably is
the beyond but that can never be experienced by you. It is when the you is not there. The
moment you translate, the you is there. You look at something and recognize it. Thought
interferes with the sensation by translating. You are either thinking about something which is

totally unrelated to the way the senses are functioning at the moment or else labeling. That is
all that is there. The word separates you from what you are looking at, thereby creating the
you. Otherwise, there is no space between the two.
Every time a thought is born, you are born. When the thought is gone, you are gone. But the
you does not let the thought go and what gives continuity to this you is the thinking. Actually,
there is no permanent entity in you, no totality of all your thoughts and experiences. You think
that there is somebody who is thinking your thoughts, somebody who is feeling your feelings.
That's the illusion. I can say it is an illusion but it is not an illusion to you.
Your emotions are more complex but it is the same process. There is a sensation in you and
you name it. This brings into existence the one who is translating this sensation. Self is
nothing but a word. This labeling is only necessary when you must communicate. You think
the thoughts of your society, feel the feelings of your society and experience the experiences
of your society. There is no new experience. So all that any man has ever thought or felt must
go out of your system. And you are the product of all that knowledge. That's all you are.
All that you know about what you call thought is what you have been told. You are all the
time trying to do something with it because somebody has told you that you must change this
or replace that, hold on to the good thoughts and not the bad thoughts. Thoughts are thoughts;
they are neither good nor bad.
As long as you want to do something with whatever is there you are thinking. Wanting and
thinking are not two different things. Wanting to understand means there is a movement of
thought. You are adding momentum to that movement, giving it continuity. The senses
function unnaturally in you because you want to use them to get something. Why should you
get anything? Because you want the self to continue you are protecting that continuity.
Thought is a protective mechanism. It protects you at the expense of something or somebody
else.
If you could be in a state of awareness for a single moment once in your life the continuity
would be snapped, the illusion of the experiencing structure, the you, would collapse and
everything would fall into the natural rhythm. In this state you do not know what you are

looking at. That is awareness. If you recognize what you are looking at you are there again
experiencing the old, what you know. What makes one person come into his natural state and
not another person, I don't know. Perhaps it's written in the cells. It is acausal. It is not an act
of volition on your part. You can't bring it about. There is absolutely nothing you can do.
You can distrust any man who tells you how he got into this state. One thing you can be sure
of is that he cannot possibly know himself and cannot possibly communicate it to you. There
is a built-in triggering mechanism in the body. If the experiencing structure of thought
happens to let go, the other thing will take over in its own way. The functioning of the body
will be a totally different functioning without the interference of thought except when it is
necessary to communicate with somebody. You have to throw in the towel, be totally helpless.
No one can help you and you cannot help yourself.
This state is not in your interest. You are only interested in continuity. You want to continue,
probably on a different level, and to function in a different dimension, but you want to
continue somehow. You wouldn't touch this with a barge pole. This is going to liquidate what
you call you, all of you. This structure is born of time and functions in time but does not come
to an end through time.
You can't understand what I am saying. It is an exercise in futility on your part to try to relate
the description of how I am functioning to the way you are functioning. This is a thing which I
cannot communicate nor is any communication necessary. No dialogue is possible. When the
you is not there, when the question is not there, what is, is understanding. You are finished.
You'll walk out. You will never listen to anybody describing his state or ask any questions
about understanding at all.
What you are looking for does not exist. You would rather tread an enchanted ground with
beatific visions of a radical transformation of that non-existent self of yours into a state of
being which is conjured up by some bewitching phrases. That takes you away from your
natural state. It is a movement away from yourself. To be yourself requires extraordinary
intelligence. You are blessed with that intelligence. Nobody need give it to you. Nobody can
take it away from you. He who lets that express itself in its own way is a natural man.

You see, the animal becomes a flower. That seems to be the purpose if at all there is any
purpose in nature. I don't know. There are so many flowers there. Look at them! Each flower
is unique in its own way. Nature's purpose seems to be (I cannot make any definitive
statement) to create flowers like that, human flowers like that.
Man becomes man for the first time, and that is possible only when he frees himself from the
burden of the heritage we are talking about, the heritage of man as a whole. Then only does he
become an individual. For the first time he becomes an individual. That is the individual I am
talking about. That individual will certainly have an impact on human consciousness. Like
when you throw a stone in a pool it sets in motion circular waves. Maybe that's the only hope
that man has.
That's the first time such an individual becomes a man. Otherwise, he is an animal. And he has
remained an animal because of heritage, because his heritage has made it possible from the
point of view of nature for the unfit to remain, or it would have rejected them a long time ago.
It has become possible for the unfit to survive--not the survival of the fittest but of those unfit
to survive-- and religion is responsible for that.
He's not a perfect man. He's not an ideal man. He cannot be a model for others. He becomes
freed from all the animal traits in him. Animals follow. Animals create leaders. And the
animal traits are still persisting there in man. That is why he creates a leader and follows.
You become yourself. You see, the shock that your dependence on the entire heritage of
mankind has been wrong, that realization dawns on you. It hits you like lightning that your
dependence on this culture, be it Oriental or Occidental, has been responsible for this situation
in you. That applies to the whole as well because the nation is the extension of the individual
and the world is the extension of the different nations.
So you are freed from the burden of the past and become for the first time an individual. There
is no relationship between these two flowers at all so there is no point in comparing and
contrasting the unique flowers that nature has thrown up from time to time. They in their own
ways have had their impact. Each flower has its own fragrance.
If it had not been for the heritage of man which we are so proud of we would have had so
many flowers like this. It's not that I am interpreting or understanding nature's ways, the

purpose of evolution or any such thing. There may not be any such thing as evolution at all. If
it had not been for culture, nature would have thrown up many more flowers. It has become a
stumbling block to man's freeing himself in his own way. What is responsible for his difficulty
is culture. It is of no use to the society at all but it is there.
If it had not been for culture the world would have produced more flowers, different kinds and
varieties of flowers, not only the one rose that you are so proud of. You want to turn
everything into one model. What for? Whereas, nature would have thrown up from time to
time different flowers unique each in its own way, beautiful each in its own way. That
possibility has been destroyed by this culture which has a stranglehold on man, which
prevents him from freeing himself from the burden of the entire past.
One ceases to be somebody else and is simply what one is. This shock, this lightning, hitting
with the greatest force, shatters everything, blasts every cell and gland in the body. The whole
chemistry seems to change. There's nothing to certify that but I'm not interested in satisfying
anyone's curiosity because I am not selling this. I am not collecting followers and teaching
them how to bring about this change. It's something which you cannot bring about through
any volition or effort of yours. It just happens. I say it is acausal. What its purpose is I really
don't know but it is something, you see.
The whole chemistry of the body changes so it begins to function in its own natural way. That
means everything that is poisoned and contaminated by the culture is thrown out of the
system. It is thrown out of your system and then that consciousness or life or whatever you
want to call it expresses itself and functions in a very natural way. The whole thing has to be
thrown out of your system.
This individual is neither a theist nor an atheist nor an agnostic. He is what he is. The
movement that has been created by the heritage of man which is trying to make you into
something different from what you are comes to an end and what you are begins to express
itself in its own way, unhindered, un-handicapped, unburdened by the past of mankind as a
whole. Such a man is of no use to the society. On the contrary, he becomes a threat. He doesn't
think that he is chosen, chosen by some power to reform the world. He doesn't think that he is
a savior or a free or enlightened man. And the moment followers fit him into the tradition,

there arises a need for somebody else to break away from that tradition, that is all.
Whatever I say stands or falls by itself. It doesn't need the support of any authority of any
kind. That is why such a man is a threat to the society. He's a threat to the tradition because
he's undermining the whole foundation of the heritage. My talking to people is incidental. I
mean it. Otherwise, I would get up on a platform. What is the point in getting up on a
platform? I am not interested. I have no message to give.
It's not in anybody's hands but you have a hundred per cent certainty because it is not that it is
my special privilege or that I'm specially chosen by anything. It's there in you. That's what I
mean by saying there's no power outside of man. It is the same power, the same life, that is
functioning there in you. Something is trying to express itself and the culture is pushing it
down. When once it throws the culture out then it expresses itself in its own way.
That is the fragrance of this flower. Such an individual cannot retire into a cave or hide
himself. He has to live in the midst of the world. He has no place to go to. That is the
fragrance of this flower. When you stop trying to understand what this flower is and what this
perfume is which you have never known, there is another flower, not a copy of that flower.
The moment you stop trying to compare this, trying to understand and even imagine what this
flower is, what its fragrance is, there is a new flower there which has no relationship
whatsoever with all the flowers that we have around us.
When this thing happened to me I realized that all my search was in the wrong direction and
that this is not something religious, not something psychological, but a purely physiological
functioning of the senses at their peak capacities. You want to know what my state is and
make it part of knowledge, i.e. the tradition, but knowledge must come to an end. Your
wanting to know only adds momentum to your knowledge. It is not possible to know what this
is because knowledge is still there and is gathering momentum. The continuity of knowledge
is all you are interested in.
I want to make it very clear that there is no movement. You are not going to move from what
you are. You haven't even taken one step. There is no need for you to take any step. This
consciousness which is functioning in me, in you, is the same. In me it has no frontiers. In you
there are frontiers. You are enclosed in that.

Probably, this unlimited consciousness pushes you, I don't know. Not me, I have nothing to do
with it. It is like the water finding its own level, that's all. That is its nature. That is what is
happening in you. Life is trying to destroy the enclosing thing, that dead structure of thought
and experience which is not of its nature. It's trying to come out, to break open. You don't
want that. As soon as you see some cracks there you bring some plaster and fill them in and
block it again. It doesn't have to be a person that pushes you. Anything teaches you just the
same if only you let it.
You will never know what life is. Nobody can say anything about life. You can give
definitions but those definitions have no meaning. You can theorize about life but that is a
thing which is not of any value to you. It cannot help you to understand anything. When the
question burns itself out what is there is energy. You can't say anything about that energy. It is
already manifesting itself, expressing itself in a boundless way. It has no limitations, no
boundaries. It is not yours, not mine. It belongs to everybody. You are part of that. You are an
expression of that. Just as the flower is an expression of life, you are another expression of
life.
You are not different from the animal. You don't want to accept that fact. The only difference
is that you think. Thinking is there in the animal also but it has become very complex in the
case of man. That's the difference. Don't tell me that animals do not think. They do. But in
man it has become a very complex structure and the problem is how to free yourself from this
structure and use it only as an instrument to function in this world. It has no other use at all. It
has only a contingent value--to communicate something, to function in the world--that's all,
not philosophical concepts. That has no meaning at all.
Wanting anything other than the basic needs is self-deception. All this thinking has no
meaning at all. Thinking is unnecessary except to communicate with somebody. Everyone is
talking to themself. It is wearing you out and all methods that we use are adding more and
more to that, unfortunately. All techniques and systems are adding to that. There is nothing
you can do to end thinking. You see, you have to come to a point where you say to yourself, “I
am fed up with this kind of thing.” Nobody can push you there.

Thought is there when there is a demand for it. When there is no demand for it you don't know
whether it is there or not. But when there is a need for it, when there is a demand for it, it is
there to guide you and to help you communicate with someone. What decides that demand is
not here it is out there. The situation demands its use. It is not self-initiated.
You have no way at all of finding out for yourself the seat of human consciousness because it
is all over and you are not separate from that consciousness. For some reason or the other the
culture has limited the possibility of the potential evolving into its completeness and
wholeness.
Somewhere along the line possibly thought was necessary but it has become the enemy of
man now. It has become the enemy of man because the potential of the evolutionary process is
thwarted by the culture's creation of a perfect man, a religious man, a gentleman and so on,
that is quite the opposite of what is inherent here. Every human being has a unique personality
of his own which is trying to express itself.
The culture has created what is called a normal man. You see, character building is in the
interests of the continuity of the society. The character building mechanism has suppressed
and thwarted what is there inside. It is in this sense that I use the word personality. There is
nobody like you anywhere in this world among the six billion people we have. Physiologically
speaking, the individual is an extraordinary piece of creation by the evolutionary process. So I
say that every individual is unique. Whatever is there is trying to express itself and blossom
into a human being.
The human being has lost all of the animal instincts and he has not developed the human
instincts. What these people talk of--psychic powers, clairvoyance--they are all human
instincts. And they are necessary because there are two things that the human organism is
interested in. One: its survival at any cost. That is one of the most important things. It has a
survival mechanism of its own which is quite different from the survival mechanism of the
movement of thought. The second thing is to reproduce itself. It has to reproduce.
These are the two fundamental characteristics of the human organism, the living organism.
The culture has made it impossible for the personality to express itself in its own way because
the culture has different ideas. It has created a neurotic state. It has created this divisive

movement of thought. This divisive movement has got to come to an end if whatever is there
is to express itself and come into flower. That possibility is part of the human mechanism. It is
built-in there.
The problem is that anything you do--any movement in any direction on any level--gives
continuity to the structure of thought. The separation between mind and body must come to an
end. Actually, there is no separation. I have no objection to the word mind but it is not in one
particular location or area. Every cell in your system has a mind of its own and its functioning
or working is quite different from that of the other cells.
So the whole chemistry of the body has to change. It has to undergo a sort of alchemy, if I
may put it that way. Fortunately, there are certain areas in the human organism which are
outside the control of thought. This is what I have discovered for myself. They are the glands,
what you call the ductless glands.
The day you control them that's the end of man. He will lose everything. He will become just
a nut and bolt in the social structure. What little freedom he can have, what little opportunity
there is for this personality to express itself, will be lost. These glands are outside the control
of thought.
A tremendous amount of money is being spent and a lot of research is going on to find out
why they are there, what the function of those glands is--the pituitary gland, the pineal gland,
the thymus gland and so forth. Unless they are activated, any chance of human beings
flowering into themselves is lost.
I can't say there is any such thing as an evolutionary process but there seems to be. What its
nature is, what its purpose is, I do not know, but it seems to be trying to create something.
Man remains incomplete unless the whole of this human organism blooms into something,
like a flower.
Society is there inside, not outside. Culture is part of human consciousness and everything that
any predecessor has experienced is part of that. Not that there is an entity which reincarnates.
There is no entity there. So the whole business of reincarnation is absurd as far as I am
concerned. That is why in your dreams you dream as if you are flying like a bird. Likewise,

the sex fantasies man has, the animal postures, The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana--all that is part
of that consciousness which is transmitted from generation to generation.
The genetic is only part of it. Consciousness is a very powerful factor in experiencing things
but it is not possible for anybody to find out the content of the whole thing. It is too vast. The
day the endocrine glands are controlled it will change the personality of man. If nature had
been allowed to go on in its own way everybody would have become a unique flower. The
possibility is there of a change taking place which is not progressive. It has to happen in a very
sudden and explosive way to break the whole thing.
This has no social, religious or mystical content. Maybe it affects the whole of human
consciousness. It is bound to. There is only one mind, one consciousness. Whatever happens
here is bound to affect. You see, there is a constant battle going on here between what is here
trying to express itself in its own way and the culture preventing it. But you can't do a thing
through volition. It has to happen. That is why I say it is acausal.
It seems to have happened to some people during the course of history. Each one has given
expression to that uniqueness in their own way according to their background. It is an
expression of that background. Nature, in its own way, throws out from time to time some
flower, but this end product of human evolution cannot be used by this evolutionary process as
a model to create another one. If it throws out one flower, that is it, you see. You can't
preserve it. You can't preserve the perfume of that because if you preserve it, it will stink. The
evolutionary process or movement is not interested in using the one that it has perfected as a
model for further creation. It has a creation of its own.
The one question that this organism is interested in is, “How to throw off the whole thralldom,
the whole strangling influence of culture?” That question is the only question this organism
has, not in words, not as a thought--the whole human organism is that one question. I don't
know whether I make myself clear. That is the one question, you see, which is throbbing,
pulsating, in every cell, in the very marrow of your bones, trying to free itself from this
stranglehold. That is the one question, the one thought. That is the savior.
For that question there is no way of finding an answer. With that question it is impossible for
one to do anything. So it explodes. When there is no way to move with it, no space, the

explosion takes place. That is like a nuclear explosion. It breaks the continuity of thought.
Actually, there is no continuity of thought because thoughts are disconnected, disjointed
things. But something is linking them up--what you call the self or the center, which is
illusory. I can say it is illusory because it is only the knowledge you have about that which
creates the identity. All the talk of self-knowledge or self-knowing has no meaning to me. It is
within the framework of knowledge. It is playing tricks with itself.
So this continuity comes to an end and thought falls into its natural rhythm. Then it can't link
up. The linking gets broken and once it is broken it is finished. Then it is not once that thought
explodes--every time that a thought arises it explodes. It is like a nuclear explosion, you see,
and it shatters the whole body. It is not an easy thing. It is the end of the man, such a
shattering thing that it will blast every cell, every nerve in your body. I went through terrible
physical torture at that moment. Not that you experience the explosion--you can't experience
the explosion--but its after-effect, the fallout, changes the whole chemistry of your body. Then
thought cannot link up any more. The constant demand for experiencing things comes to an
end.
This is purely and simply a machine functioning automatically. The mechanism is functioning
in an automatic way but with an extraordinary intelligence that is there. It knows what is good
for it. There is an tremendous intelligence which is guiding the mechanism of the human body
and its interest is protection, to protect its survival. Then the senses become very important
factors. They begin to function at their peak capacity without the interference of thought
except when there is a demand for it.
Thought is not self-initiated. It always comes into operation on demand. It depends upon the
demands of the situation. There is a situation where thought is necessary and so it is there.
Thought is only for the purposes of communication. Otherwise, it has no value at all. Then
you are guided by your senses and not by your thoughts any more. All this talk of controlling
the senses is tommyrot, absolute rubbish. The senses have a built-in mechanism of control. It
is not something to be acquired. You can try to control, say, the sense of taste, but in this state
you don't have to discipline or control yourself. This physical or human organism or whatever
you want to call it is guided by sensory activity alone and not by thinking, not by mind at all.

I tell you, you are not an ordinary being. You are an extraordinary being. There is no one like
you. The ideal of the perfection that has been placed before us has put the whole thing on the
wrong track. The perfect being doesn't exist at all.
Questioning my actions before and after is over for me. The moral questions about words or
actions are no longer there. I have no regrets, no apologies. Whatever I am doing is automatic.
In a given situation I am not capable of acting in any other way. I don't have to rationalize,
think logically, nothing. That is the one and only action in that particular situation. Next time
the action will be different. There are new factors.
You may see it as inconsistency or contradiction. I cannot act in any other way. There's no
connection between the two actions. It is physical, not psychological. I don't remember
anything that is not happening at that particular moment. There is no reaction, only response.
But you are reacting all the time. There is the judgement for or against, “This is right, that is
wrong.”
The response I am talking about is the physical response to the situation. I function in the
physical plane all the time. I am not thinking of anything when I see you. If I turn this side you
are wiped out, you are finished for me. There is no mind. If necessary it is recalled, if you ask
questions. Reaction is thinking about it--right, wrong, good, evil. Response is just looking
without the intervention of thought. Reaction is mental. Response is physical. You are all the
time reacting. You are not physically responding to the things out there.
The physical organism knows what to do in a particular situation. So you don't have to think
about it. There is no preparation. If there is a snake you step back. It is finished. You don't
think about it. Physiological protection is all that this physical organism is interested in,
nothing else. The structure which is always thinking of every possible situation, envisaging
how to be prepared to deal with each and every kind of situation that might arise during the
course of your life, is a thing that has no meaning because every situation is quite different.
Life guides you. I don't want to use the word life because that mystifies the whole thing. This
organism is interested in protecting itself and it knows how to survive. When I go for a walk I
tell friends, “Please, for goodness sake, look, don't think.” You don't have to think. Just use

your eyes and your ears and they will guide you. The vision becomes extraordinarily clear.
The listening mechanism becomes extremely sensitive, that is all. The senses are not deprived
of their activity here, they have a field day. They go where they want, think what they want,
anything that comes. There is no good thought, no bad thought, no sensual thought, no
spiritual thought. All thoughts are the same.
You may ask, “How can such a man have a sensual thought?” There is nothing he can do to
suppress that thought or to give room for that thought to act. This is a reality, a fact. But when
these thoughts try to take root there everything in you tightens. You don't have to do a thing.
The thoughts cannot stay there. There is no continuity, no build-up. One knows what it is and
there it ends. Something else comes up.
But it doesn't end there for you. You say, “How can I have these sensual thoughts?” You think
you are not free if you have sensual thoughts but if you don't have them you can be certain
that you are not a living human being. Saint or sinner, one must respond to every stimulus.
You must respond. If there is a woman, there must be a physical response to that. Otherwise,
you are a corpse. But here there is no continuity, no build-up. Something else comes up.
Thoughts come and go, most of the time you don't even know that they are there. They cannot
stay. They are moving. When you recognize there's trouble, fine, it cannot stay there for long.
It is pushed out by the next thing. Before you realize what is happening it is gone. When you
try to look at it, it is not there. What you are looking at is completely different from what was
there before. You don't have to do a thing.
This man is not a stone. He is affected by everything that is happening there. Nor does he
bother to create an armor. The religious man has built an armor around himself. Here the
cumulative process has come to an end. The only action is physical action, only on that level.
The senses are running like wild horses. There is nobody who is controlling them. They run
here, there and everywhere as the situation demands.
This action is the movement of life, the real movement of life, and it has no direction. If you
accept the helplessness the problem is solved. That is why I say there is no freedom of action
for you. It's not a fatalistic philosophy I am talking about but preventing the past from

interfering with and coloring the present. All this talk of sublimation of sex energy is bunkum.
I make emphatic statements because it is something I have experimented with before and I
know what it is. By conserving sex energy you are not going to improve yourself in any way.
It is too silly and too absurd. Why has so much stress been laid on that? Abstinence,
continence, celibacy, is not going to help to put you in this state, in this situation. You can
have sex today and this kind of thing can happen to you tomorrow. And this can happen even
through sex.
If there is a moment there where there is nobody who is experiencing anything--that is the
moment when this kind of a thing can happen. It doesn't have to be the discourse of a religious
man. Anything that is happening can do the trick because if you don't translate anything that
will take care of it.
There is no such thing as sublimation, nothing going up there. It is only going out. But these
holy men won't accept it. If they were honest enough they would know what they are saying.
Sex is unfortunately separated from other activities. Why I have always wondered. It is one. It
can't be separated. Why have they put it on a different level? It is that that has created the
problem. Religion is responsible for that. It has created that for us.
The questioning of our actions is really the moral problem. We must have new moral codes of
conduct. That is necessary, otherwise we can't function. That is the trouble now. The old codes
are all out of date, anachronistic, finished. Who cares about sex? Sex is so easy now. The
extraordinary man, as opposed to your ordinary man, has to live here in this society. He
cannot run away and live in a cave and meditate.
There is no conflict with this society at all. Although it is so unreal I function in the world
accepting the reality accepted by everybody. It is very important. I can't sit in a cave. This is
the only reality for such a man. The ultimate reality is bosh and nonsense. It doesn't exist. It's a
myth. As long as you are feeling the feelings of society you are part of that society. Because
you have no such thing as your own thoughts, your own experiences or your own feelings, you
can't run away from this society.
You are not separate from the society. You are the society. You are part of this world. You are
affected by it. You are not involved but you are affected. There is a difference between getting

involved and allowing yourself to be affected. All the windows are open. It doesn't matter, this
or that, anything can come. We have very strange ideas in the religious field, all kinds of
funny things.
You are escaping from yourself. What you do or do not do does not matter at all--your
practice of holiness, your practice of virtue. That is socially valuable for the society but that
has nothing to do with this. The moral codes of conduct have no relationship whatsoever to
this. Not that this man is immoral. He cannot be immoral. It is impossible for him, you see.
His behavior patterns probably to some extent fall within the framework of the moral and
religious code but he's a danger. What I am saying is a threat to you as you know yourself and
as you experience yourself.
My point is this; that not because of love but because of the terror of liquidating ourselves we
will learn to live together. You cannot hurt anybody without hurting yourself, not
psychologically but physically. Only when we realize this will we learn to live together. As
long as each individual seeks his own security, there can be no overall security. We are talking
of peace in international terms but it has to percolate down to the level of individual
relationships.
Only terror will make us live together in peace whether we like it or not. You can take a
revolver and make the world's strongest, most powerful man dance for you. It is a fact. This is
going to survive somehow. You are not going to let the whole thing blow up. Man has
survived for so long and now we are all of a sudden talking about values and all that kind of
stuff. What for? It has not helped us to live in harmony.
We have created this moral problem, you see. Plants and animals don't have a religious
problem. Man has created this religious problem. You see, this has absolutely no social
content at all and I can't think of any collective action. So this individual is just like something
thrown out by nature and whether anybody recognizes him or not is of no importance. This
man cannot be of any use to this society. I don't have the missionary zeal in me or any desire
to save mankind.
I am not in the holy business. I sing my own song. If somebody comes I talk. If nobody comes

I go for a walk or look at the birds, look at the trees. So many things are happening. But I don't
go out and sit on a platform and talk. I am not cut out for that kind of a thing. I am a simple
man. I don't want to complicate things unnecessarily. You see, my position is very simple. I'm
always available. I have no private life which I can call my own. Anybody can come at any
time. I just see them and say, “Good morning, what can I do for you?” That's all I can do. I
have nothing to give, that's all.
Knowledge is not something mysterious or mystical. You know that you are happy and you
have theories about things. This is the knowledge we are talking about. You introduce another
knowledge; spiritual knowledge. But spiritual knowledge, sensual knowledge--what is the
difference? We give the names to them. Fantasies about God are acceptable but fantasies
about sex are called sensual, physical. There is no difference between the two. One is socially
acceptable, the other is not. You are limiting knowledge to a particular area of experience so
then it becomes sensual and the other becomes spiritual. Everything is sensual to me.
The knowledge that is essential for the living organism--all of that is necessary. But all those
speculations about God, truth, reality, have no meaning at all. They are all cultural values.
They are totally unrelated to the survival of the living organism. They are all socially,
arbitrarily fixed, religious values. All our tastes are cultivated tastes. Likes and dislikes are all
cultivated.
There is no such thing as absolute morality. By morality I mean questioning your actions
before and after. It is all social. For the smooth running of society these codes are necessary.
These religious people have created a policeman inside you. Certain actions are termed good
and certain other actions are termed bad either before or after you do them. That hasn't helped
you in any way.
It is thinking that has created the problem. Man's problem is basically the moral dilemma--
questioning your actions before and after. It has become a neurological problem, not a
religious problem. Even God is a neurological problem. God is the jumbled spelling of dog
but the whole of your being is reacting to the word God.
All your beliefs, they are not just psychological, they are neurological. You don't know what

is good. You know only what is good for you. That's all you are interested in. Everything
centers around that; all your art and reason centers around that. I am not being cynical. That's
a fact, nothing wrong with it. I'm not saying anything against it. The situations change but it is
that which is guiding you through all situations. I'm not saying it is wrong, you see. If it is not
so something must be wrong with you. As long as you are operating in the field of what they
call the pair of opposites, good and bad, you will always be choosy in every situation. That is
all, you cannot help that.
A moral man is a chicken. A moral man is a frightened man, a chicken-hearted man. That is
why he practices morality and sits in judgement over others. And his righteous indignation! A
truly moral man will never talk of morality or sit in judgement on the morals of others; never.
Man is always selfish and he will remain selfish as long as he practices selflessness as a virtue.
The basic pleasures you are indulging in I am not against at all. Whatever you do I am not
against at all. There is restlessness because you have an ideal way of doing things, a perfect
way of doing things. You think that there is something more interesting than what you are
doing. If that is knocked off, what you are doing becomes very interesting.
You have been told that you should practice desirelessness but that is falsifying you. Desire is
there. Desire as such can't be wrong, can't be false, because it is there. Anger as such can't be
false because anger is there. You are talking of some energy which those people have defined
as God or God-knows-what. Don't you see that it is the very thinking that has turned this into a
problem? Anger is energy. Desire is energy. All the energy you want is already in operation
there. What the hell do you want energy for? You are destroying this energy through thinking.
It is only thinking that has created the problem. Without thinking there is no problem. What
I'm saying is that through thinking you cannot solve the problem. Thinking can only create
problems.
You hope that you will be able to resolve the problem of desire through thinking because of
the models of saints who you think have controlled or eliminated desire. If that man has no
desire, as you imagine, he is a corpse. Don't believe that man at all! Such a man builds some
organization and lives in luxury which you pay for. You are maintaining him. He is doing it
for his livelihood. There are always fools in the world who fall for it.

Once in a while he allows you to prostrate before him. You will be surprised if you live with
him. You will get the shock of your life if you see him there. That is why they are all aloof,
because they are afraid you will catch them some time or the other. The rich man is always
afraid that you will touch him for money; so too the religious man. He never comes in contact
with you. Seeing him is far more difficult than seeing the president of your country. That is a
lot easier than seeing a holy man. He is not what he says he is, what he claims he is. But those
men who have made it, they live amongst the people. You can see them always there.
You will never know the truth because it's a movement. You cannot contain it. You cannot
express it. It's not a logically ascertained premise. It has to be your discovery. What good is
my experience? We have thousands of experiences recorded. They haven't helped you. It's the
hope that keeps you going because hope is the structure.
So-called self-realization is the discovery for yourself and by yourself that there is no self to
discover. That will be a very shocking thing, I tell you. It's not going to be an easy thing. It's
not going to be handed over to you on a gold platter. You have to become completely
disillusioned then the truth begins to express itself in its own way. It is useless to try to
discover the truth. The search for truth is absurd.
You cannot communicate what you cannot experience. I don't want to use those words
because inexpressible and incommunicable imply that there is something which cannot be
communicated, which cannot be expressed. There is an assumption that there is something
there which cannot be expressed, which cannot be communicated. There is nothing there. I
don't want to say there is nothing there because you will catch me; you will call it emptiness,
void and all that sort of thing. I can only put it this way--whatever is there cannot be
experienced. Whether there is anything there I don't know. I have no way of knowing it at all.
Even assuming for a moment that you are an enlightened man, you have no way of knowing
anything about it. It can never become a part of your knowledge. This has understood that it is
not possible to experience anything any more. I don't know if I quite make myself clear. The
individuality, the isolation, the separation or whatever you want to call it is not there anymore.
What separates you, what isolates you, is thought. It creates frontiers, boundaries. Once that is

not there you are boundless, limitless; not that you can experience that boundlessness and
limitlessness of your consciousness.
The content of your consciousness is so immense that you can't say anything about it. That is
why I say it's a state of not knowing. You really don't know. But how do you know that you
do not know? It's not that you say to yourself that you do not know but in relation to the
ordinary state of consciousness you have no way of knowing that at all; nobody has any way.
There is not even an attempt on your part to grasp something. You don't accumulate
experiences.
If you want to experience one thing, the whole series of mysteries are there knocking on your
door. This is not an experience at all. You are interested in experiencing the ultimate reality--
truth, God, God-knows-what--but it's futile for you to attempt to experience a thing which you
cannot experience. It doesn't mean that it is beyond the experiencing structure. Rather, the
experiencing structure comes to an end. If you don't recognize what you are looking at it
means you are not there.
What are you? You are nothing but a bundle of all these experiences, the knowledge you have
about them. I see and I don't know what I'm looking at. My sensory perceptions are at their
peak capacity but there is nothing inside of me which labels. The knowledge I have about
things is in the background. It is not operating.
In a way the whole of life is like a great big dream. I am looking at you but I really don't know
anything about you. This is a dream, a dream world. There is no reality to it at all. When the
experiencing structure is not manipulating consciousness or whatever you want to call it then
the whole of life is a great big dream from the experiential point of view; not from this point
of view here but from your point of view.
You see, you give reality to things--not only to objects but also to feelings and experiences--
and think that they are real. When you don't translate them in terms of your accumulated
knowledge, they are not things. You really don't know what they are. To you, in relation to the
reality you give to things, you would call this state of not knowing a dream.
Here there is no such thing as reality any more, let alone the ultimate reality. I function in the
world as if I accept the reality of everything the way you accept it. It's like water flowing.

When there is an obstacle to the water then there is an action there, either it overflows or it
takes a diversion, but here and now when I begin to walk in that direction there is no question
of an obstruction or anything there.
Look here--there is no present to the structure of the you. All that is there is the past which is
trying to project itself into the future. You can think about past, present and future but there is
no future, there is no present, there is only the past. Your future is only a projection of the
past. If there is a present, that present can never be experienced by you because you
experience only your knowledge about the present and that knowledge is the past. So what is
the point in trying to experience that moment which you call now?
The now can never be experienced by you. Whatever you experience is not the now. So the
now is a thing which can never become part of your conscious existence and which you
cannot give expression to. The now does not exist as far as you are concerned except as a
concept. What you experience is only the knowledge you have about it, and the knowledge
has come from some outside agency always. It is somebody else's, not yours. Somebody else
will come along and take it away. A more persuasive man comes along and says, “That's not
the way to experience, there's another way,” and so on. As I see it, there is no preparation for
it--no yoga, no prayers, no meditation. Probably, you will experience anything you want.
Thought is something extraordinary.
You have to go through all these experiences. Sometimes out of nowhere something like an
experience too extraordinary to have happened to you or anybody ever before is there, but that
did not come out of nowhere. It is part of the knowledge of consciousness. All that man has
experienced before you is part of consciousness. It is all there. All that is a contamination;
anything you experience, however profound it may be, is a contamination. It has nothing to do
with this state. Somebody has experienced that before. Anything you experience there is a
worthless thing, it is not that. Whatever is experienced is thought-induced. Without knowledge
you can't experience and experience strengthens the knowledge. It is a vicious circle--the dog
chasing its own tail.
Expansion of consciousness is nothing, but you give so much importance to that. Drugs will

make it a lot easier than all these meditations and yogas. There is a sudden blow-up of
consciousness and this sudden expansion releases tremendous energy there inside of you.
What is the effect of that on the physical body? The physical body responds to what you call
the sudden expansion of consciousness. The only way the physical body can respond to that
sudden expansion of consciousness is by taking a sudden breath. Suddenly you take a breath
and the whole breathing pattern changes. It's breathtaking. You experience such things all the
time. There is nothing to these experiences. None of these experiences mean anything.
The realization dawns on you that those experiences, however profound they may be, aren't
worth anything, that's all. You may be in a blissful state; even after that calamity you have
blissful states, ecstatic states, a sudden melting away of everything that is there. It doesn't
mean anything. You experience, I experience--what is the difference?
In India, holy people experience some petty little thing called a blissful state or the absence of
body consciousness and they think something marvelous is happening. All those things are
limitations. They are limiting consciousness. They are not in any way helping. But to you
probably they are of great interest because man is functioning all the time in that limited
consciousness. All those religious experiences are no different from the experiences people
have when they take drugs.
You cannot experience anything which you can call your own. Whatever you experience,
however profound that experience may be, is the result of the knowledge that is part of your
consciousness. Somebody must have, somewhere along the line, experienced bliss, ecstasy--
call it by whatever name you like--and that experience is part of your consciousness. You have
to come to a point where you see that there is no such thing as a new experience at all. The
mystic who experiences what the sages have talked about is still in the field of duality,
whereas the sages or seers are functioning in the undivided state of consciousness.
The mystic experience is an extraordinary one because it is not an intellectual experience. It
helps them to look at things differently, to feel differently, to experience things differently and
to interpret the statements of the sages and seers for others. Had it not been for the mystics, the
sages would have been clean forgotten long ago. The sages don't depend upon any authority.
What they say is the authority. This the sages talked about but the mystics just had

experiences. They tried to share that through music and all kinds of things but this is not an
experience which can be shared with somebody else. This is not an experience at all. The
mystics are trying to tell you, so they are always in the field of duality, whereas the sage, or
seer, or whatever you want to call him, is in the state of undivided consciousness. He does not
know that he is a free man so for him there is no question of trying to free others. He is just
there. He talks about it and then he goes.
Gaudapada had no disciples. He refused to teach anybody. Ramana Maharshi taught nobody,
initiated nobody. Great teachers never use any authority and they do not interpret anyone. The
mystics help you to look at things differently, to interpret things differently. You cannot
become a sage through any effort. It is not in you hands. A sage cannot have a disciple. A sage
cannot have a follower because it is not an experience that can be shared. Even an ordinary
experience you can't share with others. Can you tell somebody who has never experienced sex
what the sex experience is like?
The sages and seers are original and unique because they have freed themselves from the
entire past. Even the mystic experience is part of the past. Not that the past goes for such a
man but for him the past has no emotional content. It is not continually operative, coloring the
actions. This is the ultimate. You have to totally surrender yourself. It is not surrender in the
ordinary sense of the word. It means there isn't anything you can do. That is total surrender,
total helplessness. It can't be brought about through any effort or volition of yours. If you want
to surrender to something it's only to get something. That's why I call it a state of total
surrender. It's a state of surrender where all effort has come to an end, where all movement in
the direction of getting something has come to an end.
All wanting is totally absent. Even the hope must go that some miracle will happen and it will
descend upon you from somewhere. All those to whom this kind of thing has happened have
really worked hard, touched rock-bottom, staked everything. It does not come easily. It is not
handed over to you on a gold platter by somebody. It is a very simple thing, so simple that the
complex structure does not want to leave it alone. You seem to know. You imagine.
Imagination must come to an end. I don't know how to put it. The absence of imagination, the
absence of will, the absence of effort, the absence of all movement in any direction, on any

level, in any dimension--that is the thing.
You are interested in experiencing bliss, love, God-knows-what, but that is a worthless thing.
If I experience bliss, is that bliss? It is created by the knowledge I have; it is the knowledge.
To be free from knowledge is not an easy thing. You are that knowledge--not only the
knowledge that you have acquired in this life but the knowledge of millions of years of
everybody's experiences. People have some experiences, you see, and on that they build a
tremendous superstructure.
The thing is so simple that the complex structure does not want to leave it alone. I don't like
the articles written about me. You are trying to present me as a religious man which I am not.
You are failing to comprehend the most important thing that I am emphasizing. These articles
don't give any idea of what I am expressing. There is no religious content--there are no
mystical overtones at all--in what I am saying. Man has to be saved from the saviors of
mankind! The religious people, they kidded themselves and fooled the whole of mankind.
Throw them out! That is real courage.
Courage is to brush aside everything that man has experienced and felt before you. You are
the only one greater than all those things. Everything is finished. The whole tradition is
finished, however sacred and holy it may be. Then only can you be yourself. That is
individuality. For the first time you become an individual. As long as you depend upon
somebody, some authority, you are not an individual. Individual uniqueness cannot express
itself as long as there is dependence. You don't have to depend upon any authority; it has an
authority of its own. You will never interpret anything. You will never rely on any authority.
The problem is that even if such a person doesn't talk his very presence becomes a model for
somebody. The fact that somebody sits here from morning till evening--what can I do about
it? Sometimes they go into trances. They say, “How can you deny what is happening to me?”
And I say, “You may do what you like.” How can I convince you that I have nothing more
than you have? I don't have anything that you don't have. Your wanting something from
somebody is the cause of your misery. The end of illusion is the end of you, so you can't be
without illusion. You can only replace one illusion with another. It is very difficult to make
you understand the absurdity of the whole search.

I am blocking every escape. Each outlet has to be blocked to put you in a corner. You must be
choked to death, as it were. Only a real teacher can find that out and tell you, nobody else. Not
those people who interpret the texts; all that is totally unrelated. Only such a man can talk.
And such a man never encourages you because he knows that if this kind of a thing has to
happen to somebody, that person will not need the help of anybody. In spite of everything it
will happen.
Whatever you are doing is blocking its happening. It is misleading to put it that way because
there is nothing to happen. You don't realize that whatever you are doing is a self-centered
activity. Whatever you are doing in any direction is only strengthening or distorting the whole
thing. Spirituality is self-centered activity. It is very difficult to understand that. The
instrument that you are using is born in the field of cause and effect. It cannot conceive of
anything happening without cause and effect. That is why that is not the instrument, and there
is no other instrument.
It is a quantum jump. It jumps from here to there. You cannot link up these things. You put me
on the other side of the river. You want to cross in a boat. That boat is a leaky boat and you
will sink. There is no other bank and there is no river to cross, no boat. It is very difficult for
you to understand that. You have created an image and put the image on the other side. I say,
“No, for goodness sake, I am on the same bank. There is no river to cross and no boatman is
necessary!”
Nobody can guide you. You have no guidelines because he himself doesn't know. If I knew, I
would guide you along. Such a man cannot guide or lead you anywhere. It is not that I am
against gurus, not at all. He knows, even your books say it, that it is not the guru that can help
you. It doesn't mean some sort of mysterious thing. The hymns say, “Whomever it chooses, to
him it happens.” That does not mean that there is any power outside of you. That potential is
there in you already. It has the capacity to explode. If through some strange chance, if through
some luck, thought remains by itself without splitting itself into two--something has to happen
to that. It is like an atomic explosion, not one but trillions. When it explodes it blasts
everything that is there. It is a chain reaction. One after the other, every cell is involved.
It is not so easy. Not through logic or power or somebody's teaching can you make it happen,

but the possibility of that kind of thing happening is there in everybody because that is its
nature. I can't give it to you or tell you how this happened. That is the reason why I say it has
no cause and cannot be reproduced. Reproducing a copy has no value at all. That is why it
cannot be reproduced. It is not my opinion. No teacher has reproduced another teacher like
himself. While he may have followers, he has something which cannot be reproduced because
nature does not use anything as a model to reproduce another.
So all your morality and all your practicing this, that and the other has no meaning. That is
why the Upanishadic seers never talked of morality or practices whereas the saints have
emphasized them because they are second-class imitators. This kind of a thing, if it has to
happen, will happen in spite of those things. If anything has to happen it has to happen here
and now.
You see, the trouble is that the more beliefs you have the more difficult it becomes for you
because one more thing is added to your tradition. Your tradition, which you want to preserve,
has been strengthened and fortified by the appearance of a new man because you are trying to
fit him into the framework of your tradition. This structure is interested in protecting the
tradition. But this is interested in breaking the cumulative nature of the tradition, not in
maintaining the tradition but in breaking it.
A certain person breaks it and you make it a part of that accumulated wisdom. That is why it
becomes more difficult. Even the revolutionary statement of that particular individual who has
achieved this breakthrough has already become part of your tradition. Your very listening has
destroyed the revolutionary nature of this breakthrough and has made this a part of
knowledge, tradition, because you are the tradition. The listening mechanism that is operating
there in you is the tradition. It strengthens itself, fortifies itself, through the listening process.
By the time this has been accepted, the need has been created for somebody else to come and
blast it. That is why I am talking. The very expression of this has created the need for
something new to happen. That is its nature. That is the purpose, if there is any purpose, not to
create a following but to create something new there. Something new is saving you from the
burden of the past. The moment it is given expression to, it is old. Why be like those handing

over the torch from one person to another and maintaining the hierarchical structure?
Following another is an animal quality. Man cannot become man so long as he follows
somebody. What is responsible for man remaining an animal is that culture, the top dog.
Following somebody, that has not helped you at all. Why be a cheap imitation of Buddha or
whosoever? What for? I tell you, you are far more unique and extraordinary than all those
saints and saviors of mankind put together. Why do you want to be a cheap imitation of that
fellow? That is one of the myths. Forget it. You have that potential. The first thing is to drop
copying others.
Now supposing you are there, let us put it that way. You will not say to yourself or to others
that you are a free man. You will not try to free anybody. It is just there like the flower. The
wildflower has a beauty of its own. Other flowers are no match to that. It will go one day. It
doesn't matter. There is nothing that you can do. That statement has no meaning for you
because you are doing something all the time. You have to do something or the other, so this
statement has no meaning, no relevance to you at all.
The description of this state is a very dangerous thing because you are trying to relate this to
the way you are functioning. Whatever you want you can get, whatever experience you want,
but whatever you experience is worthless. Enlightenment, if there is any such thing, is not an
experience at all. So this dawns on you, this realization, if you want to put it that way, that
there is nothing to realize.
Self-knowledge, or self-realization, is to realize for yourself and by yourself that there is no
self to realize. That is going to be a shattering blow to the one pursuing it. That is why it
happens to one in a million, one in a billion, not because of what he does or does not do. All
your doing is the barrier. Unless you are there you can't understand the meaninglessness of
this at all. When you are there you see that the very search is the self, the very thing you want
to be free from. There is no you independent of the search; that you don’t understand.
It is the goal that you have set before yourself that has created the you. If the goal goes, if you
brush aside the goal, you replace one with another. You can't be without illusion. You replace
one illusion with another. If illusion goes, you go. If you accept the goal it is alright with me

but I say that the goal itself is false. I maintain that there is nothing to be achieved, nothing to
be accomplished, nothing to be attained. So all that you are doing to achieve your goal is
meaningless. The earlier it dawns on you the better for you. If those things produce some
experiences it will be very difficult for you to transcend your own experience.
Somewhere along the line it is bound to dawn on you, you know, that it is not taking you
anywhere, but the hope keeps you going, the hope that one day through the same thing you
will probably reach your goal, because that instrument is born out of time, is born out of cause
and effect, and it cannot conceive of anything except in terms of time. So if time is not there,
there is nothing to happen, let alone in the future, because it is time that has created the need
for the timeless. Time means the future. If this time is cut off, it is not as if what you expect to
happen will happen now. There is nothing to happen here. Time burns itself out when the
timeless is knocked off.
Whatever you want to happen is in terms of time. Assuming for a moment that you are already
in the blissful state, you don't want to be in that state tomorrow. Whatever the state you want
to be in, you are not in that state, because the goal is there, which is tomorrow, not today. So if
this is not there, the thought which is thinking in terms of something happening in time is not
there. Unfortunately, there is nothing to happen. Happening is in time. When time is not there,
there is no happening.
Self is God. The divine you want in the future is already here. There is nothing to happen.
Achieving--it doesn't matter what you call it--is in time so it is bound to be caught up in cause
and effect. You want to produce a result but this is not a result, not a happening, not an
achievement. Anything you do with this will cause you pain. There's no end to that. You will
keep searching for this eternally. You are not going to get it. Even if you get what you want
and experience bliss, love, God-knows-what, there is always more of it. Silence you
experience but you want permanent silence. You want always to be in silence but in the very
nature of things there is no permanence at all.
You have never lived with these people. I do not know if there are any. It's a very simple
thing. It's so simple that the complex structure does not want to leave it alone. There's nothing
that you can do. You can stay with any teacher all your life. Nothing is going to happen. There

is no inside or outside, you understand? The triggering apparatus is part of you. It's there. All
techniques strengthen the very self you want to be free from. For what are you meditating?
You want to be free from something. There is a continuous flow of thoughts and you are
linking up all these thoughts all the time.
All meditation is a self-centered activity. I don't talk of a meditative state. This individual is
always in a state of meditation. “Where is that movement?” I am wondering. That is the
meditation that is going on. Not that I am wondering in the usual sense of the word. This
individual remains in a state of wonder for the rest of his life. Outside and inside are created
by thought. When there is no movement of thought you don't know whether it is inside or
outside. This is just like a mirror, a live mirror reflecting things exactly as they are.
There is nobody here. I don't see anything. The whole of my body is reflecting things exactly
the way they are out there. The recognizing and naming mechanism is in the background
except when there is a need for it. This absence of the movement of thought which recognizes
and names things is the state of moksha. You imagine that it's something he goes into and
comes out of. Not at all, he's always there. Whether the eyes of such a man are open or closed,
he does not know what he is looking at. This state is always a state of wonder. He doesn't
know what he is hearing, he doesn't know what he is smelling, and yet his senses are working
at their peak capacities, extraordinarily sensitive, taking in everything.
There is a constant demand on your part to experience everything that you look at, everything
that you are feeling inside, because if you don't do that you are coming to an end. You as you
know yourself, you as you experience yourself, are coming to an end, and you do not want
that to come to an end. You want the continuity. So all spiritual pursuits are in the direction of
strengthening that continuity. It's a self-centered activity. Through self-centered activity how
can you be free from the activities of the self? All your experiences, all your meditations, all
your prayer, all that you do, is self-centered. It is strengthening the self, adding momentum,
gathering momentum, so it is taking you in the opposite direction. Whatever you do to be free
from the self also is a self-centered activity.
You can't divide these things into two. The process you adopt to reach what you call being is

also a becoming process. I don't know if I make myself clear. There is no such thing as being
and becoming. You are always in the becoming process, no matter what you call it. If you
want to be yourself and not somebody else, that also is a becoming process. There is nothing
to do about this. Anything you do to put yourself in that state of being is a becoming process.
That is all that I am pointing out.
Every time you do something, whether it is a good deed or a bad deed, you are strengthening
that. You see, we are all functioning in a thought sphere, if I may use that phrase. What you
pick out of that is according to your particular background, your culture. This is the product of
the culture. You pick up thoughts which are beneficial to you to protect thought. Thought is a
protective mechanism. What is it that it is protecting? It is protecting itself. It will do
everything possible to prevent itself from breaking up. So even if you introduce the so-called
spiritual pursuits it is only the strengthening of that. It is not in the opposite direction so you
are on the wrong track.
I am always negating what I am saying. I make a statement but that statement is not
expressing all that is being said so I negate it. I negate the first statement, the second statement
and all the other statements. That is why sometimes it sounds very contradictory. I am
negating it all the time; not with the idea of arriving at any point, just negating. There is no
purpose in my talking. I am only pointing out the basic situation that you cannot understand
what I am talking about.
It is not possible for you to listen to me without interpreting. I am all the time trying to knock
off the reference point. When the reference point is absent, there is no need to understand me.
You understand? I am all the time saying that. You won't even know what I am talking about.
You are not in a position to accept or reject what I am saying. You accept a statement because
it fits your reference point, your assumptions, like self-realization, God-realization, etc. The
reference point is you. There is nothing other than the reference point there. That is you. If the
reference point goes, you go with it. That is the end of you.
Your very listening is interpretation. You never listen to anybody. It is not possible for you to
listen to anybody without interpreting. The interpretation is a part of your background, you

see, so it is not possible for you to listen to anything without interpreting what you are
listening to.
So is there any other listening? There is a listening quite independent of words, but that is not
on the conscious level. It does not mean that you are unconscious. I must make it very clear.
That is a pure and simple physical response to the sound. The sound sets in motion the
tympanum. So it is just a vibration. You really don't know what he is talking about. This is a
physiological phenomenon so I express this only in physiological terms, not in psychological,
not in religious, not in spiritual terms, because it's very important for me to express this state
in pure and simple physical and physiological terms.
This is just a machine responding to the stimuli of your questions. You have created the
problem of their answers, I am not involved. I have no commitment to consistency. I have no
viewpoint to put forward, no thesis to expound. I only respond to your stimulus. When you
ask a question it is picked up immediately, I don't even decode it. Before you have even asked
the question the answer is there. You can do it, it is nothing unusual. If you are not
preoccupied with anything of your own it is an easy thing. It is not thought-reading. It is just
an echo chamber.
What is going on there is going on here. You can't do that. You want to decode every thought,
to translate everything. What I'm saying can't be experienced by you except through the help
of thought. In other words, as long as movement of thought is there it is not possible for you to
understand what I'm talking about. When it is not there, there is no need for you to understand.
In that sense, there is nothing to understand.
Life is one unitary movement, not two different movements. It's moving, it's a continuous
flux, but you cannot look at that flux and say, “That is a flux.” Then why do I say this is a
flux? It is only to give you a feel about it that I use those words, but if you translate these
words in terms of your concepts and abstractions you are lost. Really, you do not know a thing
about what is being said. You don't understand at all. So if you realize that, what happens?
Then there is no movement of thought there. Wanting to understand means there is a
movement of thought.
You really don't know a thing about what this chap is saying. Then what happens inside of

you is only that you repeat these phrases, word by word, without translating them, without
interpreting them in terms of your concepts. His talking is just a noise. You are an echo
chamber there. That's all that happens. You are not there. When the you is there you are
translating.
This is just a pure and simple physiological functioning of the organism. Because there is life,
there is a response. The response and the stimulus are not two different movements. You
cannot separate the response from the stimulus. The moment you separate the response from
the stimulus, there is a division, it is a divisive consciousness that is in operation.
So it is one movement. Thought and life are one interfluent movement. But there seems to be
a movement of thought parallel to the movement of life going on in you all the time. There
seems to be, otherwise there would be no need for us to sit and talk about this. Listening to me
or trying to understand me would not be there. If there were no continuity of thought in you
this situation which we have created for ourselves in this room wouldn't exist anymore. You
wouldn't want to listen to any chap describing how he is functioning. Why should you? If he is
functioning that way, alright, jolly good. Why are you interested in that? Why do you establish
any relationship?
As long as you listen to me you are lost. You listen to me because you want to understand
what I am talking about, not that it is something abstract or difficult but your understanding is
through that instrument and that is not the instrument. The refined, sensitized instrument you
call intuition, but there is no other instrument. If that is not the instrument and there is no other
instrument, the logical conclusion from that statement is, “Is there anything to understand?”
There is nothing to understand. That understanding is here somehow. I don't know how it
came. That is why I cannot take you there. It has no cause. You are interested in finding out
the cause because you want it to happen in you.
So it is not a question of understanding me. It is just not possible to understand. The only thing
you can understand is within a certain framework and in relation to a point of reference. You
think that the more you listen, the more these things become clear to you, but the clarity of
thought is making it more difficult for you to understand what I am talking about. As long as
you think that you can see more and more clearly, I say you have seen nothing. If you say you

have seen, you have not seen, because seeing is the end of the structure that says that. There is
no seeing you can know. In other words, there is no seeing. As long as you think you can
understand this more, see the world around you more clearly, I say you will see nothing and
understand nothing. The difference between you and me is that you are trying to understand.
The absence of what is going on there is what is here. I can only point out the obstacle, that's
all.
You see, it is not that I know I am in a state of not knowing. The statement, “I don't know a
thing,” is an expression of that state. Be very clear about it, it is not that I say to myself that I
don't know what I am looking at. That state is throwing out the expression. That is the
expression, the description, of the state by itself, not that there is somebody who is saying it.
The state itself, by itself, says, “I really don't know a thing about it.”
When all attempts and efforts on your part fail to fit what is being said into the logical
framework, the rational framework, I have to say that you cannot in any way understand what
it is all about. It is beyond logic. It is beyond rationality. You can never experience it. Don't
try! That is not going to help you at all. There are no two ways about it. You, the structure
trying to understand, are not going to understand. I can't understand a thing about it. You are
still trying to understand, experience, something which you can never understand.
The sages spoke at a time when words had different connotations. Their students listened and
passed it on. That is why I often ask, “What is my teaching? Please tell me.” I don't know a
thing about my teaching. I don't know a thing about my state. Not that I can. I know I cannot.
The limitation is there. It has its own limitation and it has understood its limitation. It cannot
experience that at all, that's all I am saying.
You see, your very listening is an interpretation. You cannot listen to what I am saying. If you
are in that state where there is just an echo of what I am saying, repeating the words without
understanding them, you really don't know what this chap is talking about and you don't even
try to understand. I am telling you the simple fact that you cannot listen to me at all. Whatever
you make out of your listening is your own listening, not what I am saying. What I am saying
you don't know, I don't know.

What I am saying has no logic. If it has a logic it has a logic of its own, I don't know anything
about it. But you have necessarily to fit me into the logical structure of your thought.
Otherwise, the logical structure there, the rational thing, comes to an end. You see, you have
to rationalize, that is what you are, but this has nothing to do with rationality. It has nothing to
do with your logic.
What do you want to understand? There is nothing to understand. That is the understanding I
am talking about. If you understand what it is all about, what I am talking about, you are
already there. It will be something new, something totally new. You will give expression to it
in a completely different way. You will not repeat what Buddha said, what Jesus said, what
Rajneesh said or what some other is saying. It will be new and it will express itself in a totally
different way. How will it express itself I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows.
If others fit me into their frameworks it is their business. We do not have any vested interest in
that. You will probably fit me into some framework and say that so-and-so said this before.
That is my misfortune wherever I go. J. Krishnamurti people come, Rajneesh people come,
others come, and they say, “You are saying the same thing!” How the hell do you know I am
saying the same thing? Do you know anything of what he is talking about? First of all, you
must know what he is talking about and what is there behind it and then you can compare
what I am saying with what he is saying.
I am not saying any of those things. I don't compare myself with anybody. Why compare
myself with sages, saints and saviors? It would be the biggest tragedy of my life, wouldn't it? I
don't compare myself at all. What I am saying is not the same thing that has been said before,
no. How do I know? You see, you are trying to fit me into that framework. You have
necessarily to do that. If you don't do that you come to an end. That is a dangerous point.
So you have to reject me totally, saying, “He is talking some nonsense, rubbish, bosh!” Or you
have to fit me into whatever particular background you have or into somebody else's
framework and say, “He is saying the same thing.” Otherwise, the tin gods you have created
out of somebody's teaching will collapse. You have necessarily to do that, either one or the
other.

You are not going to get anything here. You are wasting your time. Pack up and go! That is
my message. I have nothing to give. You have nothing to take. If you continue to sit there you
are wasting your time. The one thing you have to do is get up and go. If you still think I can
give you something you'll have to sit there until kingdom come. I have nothing to give.
There's nothing to be given. The holy business, I am not in it. I don't want a thing. I have
nothing to give so there's no breach of contract here; nothing. I don't want anything. You may
think that I am talking for self-fulfillment. If I do, that will be my tragedy, my misery. So you
are out. You are not interested in involving yourself in my tragedy.
I do not give a damn for you. I know you are doomed. If you think something is going to
happen and sit here day after day, week after week, year after year, waiting till kingdom come,
even then no kingdom will come. Go where you will and do what you want! I tell you very
clearly, loud and clear, in clear, unmistakable language, that there is nothing to be
communicated now or at any time. I am really surprised, in spite of that assertive statement
you hang on here. It is your funeral. You are chasing something which does not exist. There is
nothing to be transformed, nothing to be changed, nothing to be understood. So long as you
want to be like me you will remain what you are, asking the same questions. You will get the
same answer. The one answer for all questions is, “Stop asking questions!”
The whole culture is built on the foundation of kill and get killed. They are even teaching that.
You can't be other than what you are. Whatever you are trying to do to change, you will not
succeed. Stop running away from yourself! What is the good of my saying so? There is no use
my telling you that because you are not going to stop it. I am telling you to stop it. You are not
certain of it, “Maybe there is something that can be done.”
I am certain that you have no freedom of action. In that sense, I go a step further and say that
you are genetically controlled. Naturally, you will say that that statement is a theory. You have
a hope that you can do something. There are many people in the holy business who assure you
that you can do something, so you will go there, as simple as that. My certainty remains.
Alright, you can go and try your luck. In the end you will find out for yourself and by
yourself, “That chappie is right!” I'll sing my song and go.

On my side it is very clear. There are so many people who have said they can help you but
you are not going to get anything from anybody because there is nothing to get. That is why I
say that since there is no such thing as enlightenment, the question whether someone is
enlightened or not does not at all arise. You are all like-minded people who are after such
things, that is all. That is your projection, your ideation, about those people, that is all that I
am saying. There may not be anything there other than what you have projected on them.
This is not a thing to be talked about and praised. You are not called upon to change this
world. I am not interested in changing the society. What I am saying has absolutely no social
content at all. This is an extraordinarily beautiful world! You want to change this world so that
you can live in a world of your own ideas. The real problem is that you want to change
yourself and find it's impossible so you want to change the world to fit it into your own
pattern.
You want to be a good man, a nice man, an innocent man, and all that stuff. You want to be
something different, but always in the future. That is what all the teachers promise you, and
they just promise, a next life or an afterlife. Till then he is in business, he is assured. If he says
there is nothing you leave him. That is why I do not have to bother. You are going to leave in
any case because what brings you here will certainly take you somewhere else. You are
interested in getting something, some kind of a false hope or promise. Here you are not going
to get it.
I don't give false hopes or promises, but religious leaders have created some hope, so you go
on and on, like riding a tiger you can't get off. There's no journey. Both are kidding
themselves, those who take or pretend to take you on the journey and those who are trying.
You can't walk with me. You are so frightened of the thorns there, the stones, you want a
trained guide. I myself don't know the terrain. Have you never heard of the proverb that warns
you never to walk with a man who has sandals because he always walks on thorns? You will
get into trouble. I myself do not know the terrain, I am just going.
This cannot be used to change the world, reform the world, create a new man, a new world--
all that is balderdash. Maybe some people do it just to help some people. That's alright, do
something. If it works, it works. But to suggest something like that, knowing very well that it

is not going to work, is not right, “Let's give them some new toys to play with, all the
traditional ways have failed.”
What are you doing? You are not doing anything. You are repeating new phrases, new words,
new idioms. That is all you are doing. You don't accept the fact that all that is a contamination
there in that consciousness. Whatever you consider sacred, whatever you consider
extraordinary, is a contamination in that consciousness. It has to purify itself. All that--all that
dross, all that is holy, all that is sacred--must go. When that has gone you are yourself,
otherwise there is dependence.
If religiousness is all you are interested in, there is no need to look anywhere other than
organized religion. The profound statements of the great teachers are not much different from
each other. All I am saying is that looking to alien lands and religions does not mean anything.
You learn new techniques, new systems, new phrases, and then you begin to think and speak
in terms of this new language and probably you feel just great but basically it does not mean
anything at all.
There is a very powerful plaster. If there is a little crack in your structure you will plaster it
over. It is very powerful. It has millions of years of momentum. It knows all the tricks. It can
invent any trick to gain momentum. That is its nature. There isn't anything you can do about it.
You can discuss it for years but I promise you, you will not get anywhere. If anyone makes
you believe you can get somewhere, he's taking you for a ride. There is no one who is honest
in this field. No outside agency can help you.
I am not asking you to do anything. How can you be interested in this kind of a thing? What
you are interested in is a totally different thing, fancy stuff, fantasy. You may indulge in all
kinds of fantasy, that's your affair. If this is not a fantasy, you will be interested in some other
kind of fantasy. How can you be interested in liquidating yourself? All that you know--you as
you know yourself, you as you experience yourself--is interested in continuity. It knows all the
tricks. You cannot beat that. All questions reduce themselves to the one question, “How am I
going to get what you have?” And through that a structure is permanently establishing itself
there and getting its continuity. There is no how.

I am not interested in the whole field of self-expression--getting in touch with one's feelings,
overcoming inhibitions and so on. I respond to what people come to see me about, the natural
state. If people are interested in psychological change, so-called consciousness expansion and
all that, let them go to encounter groups or see psychiatrists and engage in what I call the
Freudian fraud. In the end, their so-called growth will not bring them happiness. At best, they
will simply have learned to be unhappy in a new and richer way. I am not concerned with that.
My interest is in the subject they come to see me about in the first place.
My interest is in pointing out the utter impossibility of doing anything whatsoever to attain the
natural state. Anyhow, the people who come to see me do not stay very long. They come a
few times or hang around for a few months then they either go back to their ordinary lives or
go on to some fellow who promises them what they seek. Either way that's fine with me. But
one thing I will never do is deceive them. I will never suggest in any way that I can give them
anything. I will never hook them into some phony baloney idea about practicing
undifferentiated awareness and the observer being the same as the observed and all that.
Everything is okay with me. I am perfectly happy with everything as it is. I am happy with
misery, poverty and death. I am also happy with wealth and psychological fulfillment. I think
the solution to your real problems is, in any case, not possible for you unless you undergo the
sort of biological transformation that has happened to me, which is not to say that I ever
consider myself superior to you or to anyone else because of this. Quite the contrary, the idea
of superiority or inferiority never even enters my head for one moment. The total absence of
this idea is one of the characteristics of this whole transformation business.
The natural state is one in which thinking and life are not two things but one. It is not an
intellectual state. It is more like a state of feeling, although I use the word feeling in a different
sense than that in which you use the word. It is a state of not seeking. Man is always seeking
something--money, power, sex, love, mystical experience, truth, enlightenment--and it is this
seeking which keeps him out of his natural state. And although I am in a natural state, I cannot
help someone else, because it is my particular natural state, not another's.
So don't listen to me or anybody. Listening to other people is what you've been doing all your

life. It's the cause of your unhappiness. You are unique. There is no reason for your wanting to
be like another chap. You can't be like him anyway. This wanting--wanting to listen, wanting
to understand, wanting to be like such-and-such an individual--has come about because
society is interested in creating a perfect man, but there is no such thing as a perfect man. All
we can do is be ourselves and no one can help you be that.
You keep listening to someone, it makes no difference whom. And you keep hoping that
somehow, tomorrow or the next day, by listening more and more, you will get off the merry-
go-round. You listen to your parents and teachers tell you to be good and dutiful and not be
angry and so on and that doesn't do any good so you go and learn meditation. You find
someone in the holy business and you fall for it. Or perhaps he touches you and you see some
light or God-knows-what and you hope he will help you experience enlightenment, but he
cannot help you. I do not know if you see the utter helplessness of the situation and how, if
anyone thinks he can help you, he will inevitably mislead you. And the less phony he is, the
more powerful he is. The more enlightened he is, the more misery and mischief he will create
for you.
Life as such has no beginning and no end. It is a beginningless and endless movement and you
are only an expression of it. You are conscious of yourself through thought, by which I mean
not just conscious thought but that conditioning which transforms the life that passes through
you into feelings, into pleasure and pain. And this thought is not yours. It is what you have
learned from others. It is second-hand. It belongs to everybody. You belong to everybody.
When you accept nature, everything falls into its own rhythm. There is nothing to control and
nothing to ask. You don't have to do a thing. You are finished.
You don't let your power express itself. That's something living, vital. It's the throb, the pulse,
the beat of life. You are an expression of that life. How can you experience that? This
structure of thought through which you experience is dead. It cannot experience that life at all
because the one is something living and the other is dead, and there can't be any relationship
between the two. You can only experience dead things, not a living thing. Life has to express
itself. This is a thing which nobody can teach you. You don't have to get it from somebody.

What you have is there. No outside agency can help you; nobody.
So, all outside agencies are finished. That is a very difficult point to arrive at. You don't go
and listen to anybody no matter how holy he may be. He may be the god of gods, he may say,
“I have come to liberate the whole of mankind.” If you go there just to satisfy your curiosity
that's a different matter. You don't seek anything from any source outside so you fall back on
yourself and you really don't know.
You want to find out. You ask the question again and again, you are stuck with it, “How can I
understand this thing?” When you are finished with all answers from outside and no answer is
forthcoming from inside, what happens to that question? That question cannot remain there, it
dissolves itself. Ionization of thought takes place because it cannot escape, and that is energy.
That is life.
You can't do a thing. Don't get on this journey of freeing yourself from the conditioning of
your own thought. But you are still trying. You accept these ideas. You never question the
validity of those statements. It doesn't matter who says it, it is false for you. Not only that, it is
falsifying you because you do not test the validity of those statements for yourself. The
conditioning, you see, you will never be free from that. Don't believe anybody.
I don't accept that there is such a thing as the mind, let alone the open mind or the
unconditioned mind. There is no totality of these thoughts and experiences. They are all
disconnected, disjointed things. You'll never be free from thought. If there is any such thing as
a thoughtless state it can never be experienced by you or by anybody. Whatever you
experience there is created by this thought.
It is time that creates the timeless and then pursues it, and through this pursuit time is
continuing. Continuity is all that it is interested in. Abstractions are very misleading. If you
start talking in terms of innocence, in terms of this, that and the other, you are lost. In that
state you really don't know what you are looking at. You don't know that you are looking at
your wife. Can there be any relationship? You see, you can talk of innocence but when there is
no mind why talk of the innocent mind? Where is the mind or the unconditioned mind? These
phrases are very misleading. They are not going to help in any way. To me there is no such

thing as mind. Mind is a myth. There is nothing there to be transformed, radically or
otherwise.
There is no self to be realized. The whole religious structure that has been built on this
foundation collapses because there is nothing there to realize. You can come here. Nothing
will happen. Nothing will evolve. You will not get anything from me. That is why I am safe. I
live my own life. If somebody comes, I say, “Tell me, what can I do? There's nothing much I
can do. Thank you. Goodbye.”
The very nature of mind is neurotic because it wants two things at the same time. So every
individual is neurotic and when you can't get it you become psychotic, you become wild. Not
that you necessarily go and beat somebody but you are destroying yourself because the
violence is there inside of you. What makes you unhappy is the search for a thing that does not
exist. This is the unfortunate situation. You are not getting anywhere. That is not the way at
all. Then what is the way? There is no way. Anything I say you turn into a way and add to the
momentum. That is not the way. That is not the path. It has to be yours.
All paths must go. As long as you follow somebody else's path, the path is the product of
thought. So it is actually not a new path, it's the same old path, and you are playing the same
old game in a new way. It is not a new game. It is the same old game that you are playing all
the time, but you think you are playing a new game. You have to come to a point where you
can't do anything at all.
I say there is no translator who is translating the sensations. There is not even the knowledge
that they are sensations. You are translating all these sensations. You can't stop the translation.
You are the product of translation. There may not be any stoppage. If somebody says there is a
stoppage, “To hell with what he is saying, this chap is either a cuckoo or some far out, freaked
out ape. He is talking about things that are not real to me.” You don't have the courage. You
don't want to accept the reality of yourself.
What I am saying is something totally unrelated to the way you are functioning. So then
naturally it has to slow down. You don't know. You come to a point where you don't know
what to do about the whole business, “I can't do anything. This is the only way I know. I don't
know any other way.” If you see the futility of it all maybe it will not really stop but slow

down.
There is nothing to do, nothing to achieve. This is what I have been trying to communicate to
those of you who come to see me and who care to listen to me. As long as you want to get or
achieve something or want to be enlightened you are not going to be an enlightened. I don't
know, I never say to myself, “I am an enlightened man, a self-realized man.” What does it
mean? It doesn't mean anything to me. So to me there's no point in talking about
enlightenment or going about with my head raised saying to myself and others, “Come ye and
listen to me. I am an enlightened man. I am going to liberate you all.” That's the holy business.
Maybe you've heard that there is some funny fellow, that he's brutal and is saying all sorts of
things. Probably, curiosity brought you here, I don't know. And if you say I do all this for
kicks it is alright with me, but I'm not doing it for kicks. Alright, assuming for a moment that I
am doing all this for pleasure--why do you allow yourself to be used by me? Keep away!
Don't allow yourself to be used by me! Stay away! My interest is to send you all packing.
Don't allow yourself to be exploited by me! I don't get any pleasure. If you don't come
tomorrow it's all the same but you don't believe it because the only thing you know is
pleasure. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with pleasure. Don't say that it is something
wrong.
If you accept that you are here for exactly the same reason that a man goes to a bordello, that's
going to give you a terrible shock. There's no difference at all. Perhaps you have heard
something about a transformed individual and that is what is bringing you here. This is not
born out of thinking. These are just words springing up from their natural source without any
thought, without any thought structure.
So take it or leave it! You will be better off if you leave it. Anything you listen to is turned
into a method, a system. You want to get something through this. For example, somebody
says there is a mind and you must uncondition your mind. How are you going to uncondition
your mind? You are conditioning your mind through this lingo. That is all that it is necessary
for you to see.
I'll sing this song the rest of my life until I drop dead. Whether anybody listens to it or not is

of no importance to me. So, then you leave this chap alone. You never establish any
relationship with this man. The moment you use this to get whatever you want to get or to
arrive at some kind of a destination you are tricking yourself into the same old game.
There isn't anything you can get from any spiritual discourses or from any religious book. This
is what I have been trying to point out to those who care to listen to me. There is nothing to
accomplish, nothing to attain. If you are searching for and want anything, the first thing you
must do is throw away--lock, stock and barrel, hook, line and sinker--all this stuff that you are
hanging on to, otherwise there is no chance for you to be yourself. Any path you follow leads
you astray, puts you on the wrong track. If you make anything out of what I am saying you are
lost, body and soul, and if there is a God, He must, out of His sheer mercy, save you all and
save you from me.
One thing I make very clear, I'm not here to liberate you at all. Who am I to liberate you?
What is it that you want to liberate yourself from? You are trying to ask for a thing that you
have so I only point out that you're on the wrong track. Your teacher must go. It doesn't matter
who it is. What you are reading is the very thing you must be free from.
You are moving away from yourself. You have to be yourself and a path is trying to turn you
into something other than yourself. Why do you want to be somebody other than yourself?
You see, otherwise you wouldn't listen to anyone. Look here, I want to be full of feeling for
everybody. Somebody is talking about love, for example, so you want to be full of that love,
whatever it is. You are projecting a hundredfold what you think love is, for example. That's
what makes it difficult for you to be yourself.
Chapter Two: 1982 -- India, Switzerland and California
This is the only reality I have, the world as it is today. The ultimate reality that man has
invented has absolutely no relation to the reality of this world. As long as you are seeking,
searching and wanting to understand what you call ultimate reality, or call it by whatever
name you like, it will not be possible for you to come to terms with the reality of the world
exactly the way it is. So anything you do to escape from the reality of this world will make it

difficult for you to live in harmony with the things around you.
We have an idea of harmony, of how to live at peace. There is an extraordinary peace that is
there already. What makes it difficult for you to live at peace with yourself is the creation of
what you call peace, which is totally unrelated to the harmonious functioning of this body.
When you free yourself from the burden of reaching out there to grasp, to experience and to be
in that reality, then you will find that it is difficult to understand the reality of anything.
You will find that you have no way of experiencing the reality of anything, but at least you
will not be living in a world of illusions. You will accept that there is nothing that you can do
to experience the reality of anything except the reality that is imposed on us by the society.
We have to accept the reality as it is imposed on us by the society because it is very essential
for us to function in this world intelligently and sanely. If we don't accept that reality, we are
lost. We will end up in the loony bin.
So we have to accept the reality as it is imposed on us by the culture, by society or whatever
you want to call it and at the same time understand that there is nothing that we can do to
experience the reality of anything. Then you will not be in conflict with the society, and the
demand to be something other than what you are will come to an end. The goal that you have
placed before yourself, which you have accepted as the ideal to be reached, and the demand to
be something other than what you are, are no longer there.
The pursuit of those goals which the culture has placed before us and that we have accepted as
desirable is not there any more. The demand to reach them is no longer there, so you are what
you are. When the movement in the direction of becoming something other than what you are
isn't there any more, you are not in conflict with yourself. If you are not in conflict with
yourself you cannot be in conflict with the society around you. As long as you are not at peace
with yourself it is not possible for you to be at peace with others. Even then, there is no
guarantee that your neighbors will be peaceful, but, you see, you will not be concerned with
that.
When you are at peace with yourself then you are a threat to the society as it functions today.
You will be a threat to your neighbors because they have accepted the reality of the world as
real and because they are also pursuing some funny thing called peace. You will become a

threat to their existence as they know it and as they experience it. So you are all alone. Not the
aloneness that people want to avoid. You are all alone.
It's not ultimate reality that one is really interested in, not the teachings of the gurus, not the
teachings of the holy men, not the umpteen number of techniques you have, which will give
you the energy which you are seeking. Once that movement is not there, that will set in
motion and release the energy that is there. It doesn't have to be the holy man's teaching. It
doesn't have to be any techniques that man has invented, because there is no friction there.
You really don't know what it is. The movement there and the movement here are one and the
same. The human machine is no different from the machine out there. Both of them are in
unison. Whatever energy is there, the same energy is in operation here. So any energy you
experience through the practice of any techniques is a frictional energy. That energy is created
by the friction of thought. The demand to experience that energy is responsible for the energy
you experience, but this energy is something which cannot be experienced at all.
This is just an expression of life, a manifestation of life. You don't have to do a thing.
Anything you do to experience that is preventing the energy which is already there, which is
the expression of life, which is the manifestation of life, from functioning. It has no value in
terms of the values we give to whatever we are doing--the techniques, meditation, yoga and all
that. I am not against any one of those things, please don't get me wrong, but they are not the
means to achieve the goal that you have placed before yourself. The goal itself is false.
If the suppleness of the body is the goal you have before you, probably the techniques of yoga
will help you to keep the body supple. But that is not the instrument to reach the goal of
enlightenment or transformation or whatever you want to call it. Even the techniques of
meditation are self-centered activities. They are all self-perpetuating mechanisms which you
use. So the object of your search for ultimate reality is defeated by all these techniques
because these techniques are self-perpetuating instruments. You will suddenly realize, or it
will dawn on you, that the very search for ultimate reality is also a self-perpetuating
mechanism. There is nothing to reach, nothing to gain, nothing to attain.
As long as you are doing something to attain your goal it is a self-perpetuating mechanism. I
say self-perpetuating mechanism but I don't mean that there is a self or an entity. I have to use

the word self because there is no other word. That is all that it is interested in. Anything you
want to achieve is a self-centered activity. When I use the term self-centered activity you
always translate it in terms of something that should be avoided because selflessness is your
goal.
As long as you are doing something to be selfless you will be a self-centered individual. When
this movement in the direction of wanting to be a selfless man is not there, then there is no self
and there is no self-centered activity. So it is the very techniques, systems and methods which
you are using to reach your goal of selflessness that are self-centered activities. Unfortunately,
society has placed that goal before us as the ideal goal because a selfless man will be a great
asset to the society, and the society is interested only in continuity, the status quo. So all those
values which we have accepted as values that one should cultivate are invented by the human
mind to keep itself going.
The goal is what is making it possible for you to continue in this way, but you are not getting
anywhere. The hope is that one day, through some miracle or through the help of somebody,
you will be able to reach the goal. It is hope that keeps you going, but actually and factually
you are not getting anywhere. You will realize, somewhere along the line, that whatever you
are doing to reach your goal is not leading you anywhere. Then you will want to try this, that
and the other. But if you try one and you see that it doesn't work you will see that all the other
systems are exactly the same. This has to be very clear, you see.
Whatever pursuit you are indulging in, somewhere along the line it has to dawn on you that it
is not leading you anywhere. As long as you want something you will do that. That want has
to be very clear. What do you want? All the time I ask you the question, “What do you want?”
You say, “I want to be at peace with myself.” That is an impossible goal for you because
everything you are doing to be at peace with yourself is what is destroying the peace that is
already there. You have set in motion the movement of thought, which is destroying the peace
that is there, you see. It is very difficult to understand that all that you are doing is the
impediment, is the one thing that is disturbing the harmony, the peace that is already there.
Any movement in any direction, on any level, is a very destructive factor for the smooth and
peaceful functioning of this living organism, which is not at all interested in your spiritual

experiences. It has no interest in any one of those spiritual experiences, however extraordinary
they may be. When once you have one spiritual experience, there is bound to be a demand for
more of the same, and ultimately you will want to be in that state permanently.
There is no such thing as permanent happiness or permanent bliss at all. You think that there is
because all those books talk of eternal bliss, permanent bliss or permanent happiness. Yet you
know jolly well that it is not leading you anywhere. So the mechanism that is involved, the
instrument that you are using, is the one that keeps you going, because it does not know
anything else. It has come into being through so many years of hard work, effort and will.
Your wanting to be in a state of effortlessness through the use of effort is not going to
succeed. So forget about the effortless state. It doesn't exist at all. You want to achieve an
effortless state through effort. How the hell are you going to achieve that goal? You forget that
everything that you are doing, any movement that is there, any want that is there for whatever
reason, is effort.
Effortlessness is something which cannot be achieved through effort. Anything that you do to
stop the effort is itself an effort. It's really a maddening thing. You have not really pushed
yourself into that corner. If you do, then you will really go crazy. But you are frightened of
that. You have to see that everything that you are doing to be in that effortless state, for
whatever reason you want to be there, is effort. Even wanting not to use effort also is effort.
The total absence of will and effort, all and every kind, may be called an effortless state, but
that is not something that you can achieve through effort.
You can change the techniques, you can change the teachers, but basically and essentially the
very teaching that you are using to reach your goal is the obstacle. It doesn't matter what
teacher you follow. Understanding is the absence of the demand for understanding. It may
sound funny to you but that's the way it is. So what do you want to understand? You can't
understand me at all. You are not going to understand anything at all. It's not that it is difficult.
It is so simple. The complex structure that is involved is the very thing that does not accept the
simplicity of it. That is really the problem. “It can't be that simple,” you think, because that
structure is so complex that it doesn't want even to consider the possibility that it could be so
simple.

I am not saying anything profound. I have been repeating the same thing day after day.
Basically, it sounds very contradictory to you. What I am doing is I make a statement and the
second statement negates the first statement. Sometimes you see contradictions in what I am
saying. Actually, they are not contradictions. This statement does not express what I am trying
to express so the second statement is negating the first statement. The third statement is
negating the first two statements and the fourth statement is negating the previous three
statements, not with the idea of arriving at any goal, not with the idea of communicating
anything to you. There is nothing to be communicated, only this series of negations, not with
the idea of arriving at any goal. Your goal is understanding. You want to understand, you see.
There is nothing to understand here. Every time you make some sense out of it, I try to point
out that is not it.
It is not the doctrine of neti-neti. You know, in India they have evolved this negative
approach, but the so-called negative approach is a positive approach because they are still
interested in reaching a goal. They have failed through the positive approaches so they have
invented what is called the negative approach, “Not this, not this.” The unknown cannot be
reached, you see, nor can it be experienced through the positive approach. The so-called
negative approach is not really a negative approach because there is still the positive goal of
knowing the unknown or wanting to experience something which cannot be experienced. It's
only a trick. That's all it is, playing games.
There is no such thing as the unknown at all. How can I say that there is no such thing as the
unknown? How can I make such a dogmatic assertion? You will find out. As long as you are
pursuing the unknown, this movement is in operation. There is something that you can do that
gives you the hope that maybe one day you will stumble into this experience of the unknown.
How can the unknown ever become the known? Not a chance. Even assuming for a moment
that this movement is not there, what is there you will never know. You have no way of
knowing it at all, no way of capturing and experiencing that or giving expression to it.
To talk of eternal bliss, love--all of that is romantic poetry. You see, if you translate what I am
saying in terms of your values, in terms of particular codes of conduct, you are really missing

the point. It is not that I am against the moral codes of conduct. They have a social value.
They are essential for the smooth functioning of society. You have to have some code of
conduct to function in this world intelligently. Otherwise, there will be utter chaos. That is a
social problem. It is not an ethical or religious problem. You have to separate the two things
because we are living in a different world today. We have to find another way of keeping
ourselves in harmony with the world around us. As long as you are in conflict within yourself,
it will not be possible for you to be in harmony with the society around you. You are yourself
responsible for that.
If you translate the statements that I am making within the framework of your religious
thinking, you are really missing the point. It has nothing to do with religion at all. I am not
suggesting that you should change yourself into something other than what you are. It is just
not possible. I am not trying to free you from anything. I don't think there is any purpose in
this talking. You can brush aside my description and say it is nonsense. That's your privilege.
But maybe it will occur to you that the image you have of your goal, or the image of what you
are going to do one day, through all the effort and will which you are using, has absolutely no
relationship whatsoever with what I am describing. What I am describing is not really what
you are interested in.
I wish I could give you just a glimpse of it, a touch of it. You wouldn't want to touch this at
all. And what you want, what you are interested in, doesn't exist. You can have a lot of petty
experiences if that is what you are interested in. Do all the meditations. Do everything you
want. You will have lots of them. It's a lot easier to experience those things by taking drugs. I
am not recommending drugs but they are the same. Doctors say that drugs will damage the
brain but meditation will also damage the brain if it is done very seriously. They have gone
crazy, jumped into rivers and killed themselves. They did all kinds of things, locked
themselves up in caves because they couldn't face it.
You see, it is not possible for you to watch your thoughts. It is not possible for you to watch
every step you take, it will drive you crazy. You can't walk. That's not what is meant by this
idea that you should be aware of everything, watch every thought. How is it possible for you
to watch every thought of yours, and for what do you want to watch your thoughts? What for,

control? It's not possible for you to control. It is a tremendous momentum.
When you succeed in your imagination that you have controlled your thoughts and
experienced some space between those thoughts, or some state of thoughtlessness, you feel
that you are getting somewhere. That is a thought-induced state of thoughtlessness. The fact
that you experience the space between two thoughts, the thoughtless state, means that the
thought was very much there.
It surfaces afterwards, like the Rhone, which flows through France, disappears, and then
comes up again. It has gone underground. The river is still there. You can't use it for purposes
of navigation, but ultimately it comes up again. In exactly the same way, all these things
which you are pushing down into the subterranean regions, feeling that you are experiencing
something extraordinary, surface again. And then you will find that those thoughts are welling
up inside of you.
You are not aware that you are breathing now. You don't have to be conscious of your
breathing. Why do you want to be conscious of your breathing? To control your breathing, to
expand your lungs, to do what you like with your chest, that's a different matter. But why do
you want to be aware of the movement of breath from the origin to the end? You suddenly
become conscious of your breathing. Your breath and thought are very closely related. That's
why you want to control your breath. And that, in a way, is controlling the thought for a while.
But if you hold your breath for long it is going to choke you to death in exactly the same way
that anything you do to hold or block the flow of thoughts is going to choke you to death,
literally to death, or damage something. Thought is a very powerful vibration, an
extraordinary vibration. It is like an atom. You can't play with those things.
You are not going to reach your goal of completely controlling your thought. Thought has to
function in its own way, in its disconnected, disjointed way. That is something which cannot
be brought about through any effort of yours. It has to fall into its normal rhythm. Even if you
want to make it fall into a normal rhythm, you are adding momentum to that. It has a life of its
own which has, unfortunately, established a parallel life within the movement of life. These
two are always in conflict. That will come to an end only when the body comes to an end.
Thought has become the master of this body. Thought has totally mastered the whole thing. It

is still trying to control everything that is there. You don't have to do a thing. You are not
separate from that, that's all I am emphasizing. You cannot separate yourself from the thought
and say, “These are my thoughts.” That is the illusion you have, and you cannot be without
any illusion. You always replace one illusion with another illusion; always.
You accept that you are always replacing one illusion with another illusion, so your wanting to
be free from illusion is an impossibility. That itself is an illusion. Why do you want to be free
from illusions? That's the end of you. It's not that I am frightening you, I am just pointing out
that it is not just a lighthearted game to play. That is you, you as you know yourself. When
that knowledge you have of yourself is not there any more, the knowledge you have about the
world also is not there any more, it can't be there any more. It is not going to come to an end
that easily. It will always be replaced by another illusion.
You don't want to be a normal person. You don't want to be an ordinary person. That is really
the problem. It is the most difficult thing to be an ordinary person. Culture demands you must
be something other than what you are. That has created a certain momentum, a powerful
movement of thought. You can use it to achieve something, otherwise it has no use. You can
build a tremendous philosophical structure of thought, but that has no value at all. You can
interpret any event, but thought is not intended for that. At the same time, you forget that
everything you have around you is the creation of thought. You are yourself born out of
thought, otherwise you would not be here at all. In that sense it has value. Yet it is the very
thing that destroys you. That's the paradox.
Everything that you have created in this world has become possible through the help of
thought, but unfortunately, that very thing has become the enemy because you are using
thought for purposes for which it is not intended. It can be used for solving the technical
problems very well and efficiently but it cannot be used to solve the problems of life.
Anything that does not suggest your positive thinking you call it negative. But positive and
negative are only in the field of your thinking. When the thought is not there it is neither
positive nor negative. As I was saying, there is no such thing as a negative approach at all. It's
a gimmick.

I am telling you to stand on your own. You can walk. You can swim. You are not going to
sink. That's all that I can say. As long as there is fear, the danger of your sinking is almost
certain. Otherwise, there is a buoyancy there in the water that keeps you afloat. The fear of
sinking is the very thing that makes it impossible for you to let the movement happen in its
own way. You see, it has no direction. It is just a movement with no direction. You are trying
to manipulate and channel that movement along a particular direction so that you can have
some benefits. You are just a movement without a direction.
There is no inside or outside. What's there is only the operation, the flow of the knowledge.
You have gathered all this knowledge from various sources. It gives you power. Knowledge is
power. To acquire more and more knowledge, more than is essential for the survival of the
living organism, is to acquire power over others. The technical knowledge that you need to
make a living is understandable. You may have to learn a skill. The society is not going to
feed you unless you give something in return. You have to give them what they want, not
what you have to give.
You have, through ideation and mentation, created your own thoughts which you consider to
be yours, just as when different colors are mixed into various hues, but all of them can be
reduced to the seven basic colors found in nature. What you think are your thoughts are
actually just combinations and permutations of the thoughts of others.
You cannot conceive of the possibility of understanding anything except in time. Everything
takes time. It has taken so many years for you to be where you are today and you are still
striving and struggling to reach a higher plateau, higher and higher. That instrument which
you are using cannot conceive of the possibility of understanding anything without effort,
without striving, without producing results, but the issues that you have to deal with in life are
the living issues. Thought has not helped us to solve those problems. Temporarily, you can
find some solution, but that creates another problem, and it goes on and on. These are all life
issues, but the mind is a dead instrument and cannot be used to understand anything living.
How can you bring about a change in consciousness, which has no limits, which has no

boundaries, which has no frontiers? You can do every kind of research to find the seat of
human consciousness, but there is no such thing as the seat of human consciousness at all.
You can try but the chances of succeeding in that are slim. There is no such thing as a seat
located in any particular individual. What there is, is thought. Whenever a thought takes its
birth there, you have created an entity or a point, and in reference to that point you are
experiencing things. Every time a thought is born you are born. Thought, in its very nature, is
short-lived. This state cannot be described in terms of bliss, love, compassion and all that
poetic nonsense and romantic stuff because you have no way of experiencing what is there
between these two thoughts.
The world you experience around you is also from that point of view. There must be a point
and it is this that creates the space. If this point is not there, there is no space, so anything you
experience from this point is an illusion. Not that the world is an illusion--the world is not an
illusion--but anything you experience in relationship to this point, which itself is illusory, is
bound to be an illusion, that's all. The Sanskrit word maya does not mean illusion in the same
sense in which the English word is used. Maya means to measure. You cannot measure
anything unless you have a point. So if the center is absent there is no circumference at all.
That is pure and simple basic arithmetic. This point has no continuity. It comes into being in
response to the demands of the situation. They create it.
There is light. If the light is not there, you have no way of looking at anything. The light falls
on that object and the reflection of that light activates the optic nerves which in turn activate
the memory cells. When the memory cells are activated, all the knowledge you have about
that object comes into operation. It is that process which is happening there that has created
the subject and the subject is the knowledge you have about it. When you reduce it to that, you
feel the absurdity of talking about the self. The lower self, the higher self and self knowing,
self-knowledge, knowing from moment to moment, is absolute rubbish, balderdash! You can
indulge in such absolute nonsense and build up philosophical theories but there is no subject
there at all, at any time.
So not only the I but all the physical sensations are involved in this. Sound, smell and the
sense of touch--the operation of any one of these sensations necessarily creates the subject. It's

not one continuous subject which is gathering all these experiences, piling them up together
and then saying, “This is me,” but everything is discontinuous and disconnected. The sound is
one. The physical seeing is one. The smelling is one. They come and go. There is no
permanent entity there at all. What is there is only a first person singular pronoun, nothing
else. If you don't want to use that word it is your privilege. That's all that is there. There is no
permanent entity there at all.
While you are living, the knowledge that is there does not belong to you. So why are you
concerned as to what will happen after what you call you is gone? The physical body is
functioning from moment to moment because that is the way the sensory perceptions are. To
talk of living from moment to moment by creating a thought-induced state of mind has no
meaning to me except in terms of the physical functioning of the body.
When thought is not there all the time, what is there is living from moment to moment. It's all
frames, millions of frames, to put it in the language of film. There is no continuity there. There
is no movement there. Thought can never capture the movement. It is only when you invest a
thought with motion you try to capture the movement, but actually thought can never capture
any movement that is there around you. The movement of life out there is the movement of
life here. They are together always.
So thought is essential only for the survival of this living organism. When it is necessary it is
there. When it is not necessary the question of whether it is there or not is of no importance at
all. You cannot talk of that state in a poetic, romantic language. And one in that state won't be
hiding somewhere. He will be there shining like the star. You can't keep such people under a
bushel. To be an individual is not an easy thing, you see. That means you are very ordinary.
You want to be something other than what you are. To be yourself is very easy. You don't
have to do a thing. No effort is necessary. You don't have to exercise will. You don't have to
do anything to be yourself, but to be something other than what you are you have to do a lot of
things.
When there is an actual physical danger, the danger of the extinction of your physical body,
then everything that it has as its resource gets thrown into that situation and the body tries to

survive in that particular moment. Have you ever noticed that when there is a real physical
danger your thinking mechanism is never there to help you? You can plan ahead for every
possible situation and be prepared to meet every kind of situation in your life, but actually
when there is a physical danger all your planning and all that you have thought about to be
prepared to meet every kind of danger and every kind of situation is just not there. The body
has to fall back on its own resources.
This living organism is not interested in its continuity in terms of years. This is functioning
from moment to moment. The sensory perceptions function from moment to moment. There is
no continuity in your physical seeing. There is no continuity in your physical hearing. There is
no continuity in your smelling. There is no continuity when you eat something. There is no
continuity in the sense of touch. They are all disconnected and disjointed. But thought, in its
interest to maintain itself and to continue without any interruption, demands these experiences
all the time. That is the only way it can maintain its continuity. The body functions in a
completely different way and it is not interested in the activity of thought.
The only thought that is necessary for this body is the thought that it has to use for the survival
of the living organism. Even if you do not feed this body, it is not concerned about that. It has
certain resources which you have built up through years of eating it falls back on. At the same
time, it is foolish not to feed the body hoping that you will attain some spiritual goals. That's
what they do in India, they put the body through all kinds of stresses and strains, torture it,
because they feel that through this endurance they will be able to achieve whatever their
spiritual goals may be.
There is nothing that you can do to make this happen through any will of yours, through any
effort of yours, through any volition of yours. If this kind of a thing happens, it is not
something mysterious. Thought falls into its natural rhythm of discontinuous and disconnected
functioning, that's all. That's all that is there. Thought will be in harmony with the sensory
perceptions and the activity of the senses. There is no conflict there. There is no struggle there.
There is no pain there. There is a harmonious relationship between the two. Whenever there is
a need for thought, it is always there to act. The action that this body is interested in is only the

action that is essential for the survival of the living organism.
Culture has been adopted and accepted as a means of survival, that's all. The society is
interested only in fitting every individual into its framework and maintaining its continuity. I
don't know if I have made myself clear. The reason why I am emphasizing the physical aspect
is not with the idea of selling something but to emphasize and express what you call
enlightenment, liberation, transformation, in pure and simple physical and physiological
terms. There is absolutely no religious content to it, and no mystical overtones or undertones
to the functioning of the body. Unfortunately, for centuries the whole thing has been
interpreted in religious terms and that has caused misery for us all.
I am not interested in propagating this. This is not something which you can make happen, nor
is it possible for me to create that hunger which is essential to understand anything. I am
repeating this over and over again but repetition has its own charm. You are assuming that you
are hungering for spiritual attainments and you are reaching out for your goals. Naturally,
there are so many people in the market place, all these saints, selling all kinds of shoddy
goods. They say it is for the welfare of mankind and that they do it out of compassion and all
that kind of thing. What I am trying to say is that you are satisfied with the crumbs they throw
at you. They promise that one day they are going to deliver to you a full loaf of bread. That is
just a promise. They cannot deliver the goods at all. There is no use waiting for something to
happen to satisfy your hunger. The hunger has to burn itself up. Literally, it has to burn itself
out.
It is not because of what you do or what you do not do that this kind of a thing happens. And
why it happens to one individual and not another, there is no answer to that question. I assure
you that it is not the man who has prepared himself or purified himself for whatever reason to
be ready to receive that kind of a thing. It is the other way around. It hits but it hits at random.
That is the way nature operates, lightning hits you somewhere. It is not interested in whether it
is hitting a tree that is blooming or if it has fruits and is helping the people by providing shade,
etc. It just strikes at random. In exactly the same way, it happens to a particular individual.
There are so many things happening in nature which cannot be attributed to any particular
cause. So your interest in studying the lives or the biography of some of those people whom

you think were enlightened, or godmen, or some such thing, is to find a clue as to how it
happened to them so that you can use whatever technique they used and make the same thing
happen to you. That is your interest. Those people are giving you techniques, systems and
methods which don't work at all. They create the hope that somehow, through some miracle,
one day it is going to happen to you, but it will never happen. That is something which you
cannot make happen. It is not in your hands.
You are waiting for something to happen tomorrow. Tomorrow nothing will happen.
Whatever has to happen, that has got to happen now. And the possibility of that happening
now is practically and well nigh impossible because the instrument which you are using is the
past. Unless the past comes to an end, there can't be any present. And that present moment is
something which cannot be captured by you, cannot be experienced by you. Even assuming
for a moment that the past has come to an end, you have no way of knowing that it has come
to an end. Then there is no future for you at all.
You have tried but even those who are burning with hunger find it's impossible. Whenever
such a thing has happened it happened to those people who had given up completely and
totally all their search. That is an absolute requisite for that kind of a thing. The whole
movement has to slow down and come to a stop. But anything you do to make it stop is only
adding momentum to it. That's really the crux of the problem.
What you are interested in doesn't exist, it's your own imagination based upon the knowledge
you have about those things, and so there is nothing that you can do about it. You are chasing
something that does not exist at all. I can say that until the cows return home--I don't know
when they return home here--or till the kingdom come, but that kingdom will never come.
When enlightenment comes it wipes out everything. That is something which cannot be made
to happen through your effort or through the grace of anybody, through the help of even a god
walking on the face of this earth claiming that he has specially descended from wherever for
your sake and for the sake of mankind. That is just absolute gibberish. Nobody can help you.
Help you to achieve what? That is the question, you see.
As long as your goal is there, these persons, their promises and their techniques will look very
attractive to you. There is not anything you must do. You have nothing to get here. I have

nothing to give you. I am not anything that you are not. You think that I am something
different. The thought that I am different from others never enters my head; never. Whenever
they ask questions I feel, “Why are these people asking these questions? How can I make
them see?” I still have some trace of illusion maybe I can try. Even that try has no meaning to
me. There's nothing that I can do about it. There is nothing to get--nothing to give and nothing
to get. That is the situation.
If you want anything, the one thing that you will do is to set in motion the movement of
thought to achieve your goal. Anything you make happen has no meaning at all. Then you will
want more experiences and then when you succeed in having them you will demand some
kind of a permanent situation, permanent happiness, permanent bliss. Yet there is no such
thing as permanence at all.
You have no way of knowing what you are at all. Knowing what is there is impossible. That is
always related to what you want to be. What you see here is the opposite of what you would
like to be, what you want to be, what you ought to be, what you should be. What do you see
here? You want to be happy so you are unhappy. Wanting to be happy creates the
unhappiness. What you see here is the opposite of your goal of becoming happy, of wanting to
be happy. Wanting to have pleasure all the time creates the pain here. So wanting and
thinking, they always go together. They are not separate. Anything you want creates pain
because you begin to think. If you don't want a thing in this world, there is no thinking. That
does not mean thoughts are not there.
Whether you want to achieve material goals or spiritual goals it really doesn't matter. I am not
saying anything against wanting. The fulfillment or non-fulfillment of the want is possible
only through thinking, so the thinking has really created the problem for you. What I am
suggesting is that all the problems we have cannot be solved on psychological and ethical
levels. Man has tried for centuries to solve them but he has failed. What keeps him going is
the hope that one day, by doing more and more of the same, he will succeed. But the body, as
I was saying, has a way of resolving these problems because it cannot take them. The
sensitivity of the sensory perceptions is destroyed by whatever you are doing to free yourself

from whatever you want to be free from.
The nervous system has to be very alert for the survival of this living organism. It has to be
very sensitive. Your sensory perceptions have to be very sensitive. Instead of allowing them to
be sensitive you have invented what is called the sensitivity of your feelings, the sensitivity of
your mind, the sensitivity towards every living thing around you, the sensitivity to the feelings
of everybody that is there, and this has created a neurological problem.
Society is interested in the status quo. It doesn't want to change. The only way it can maintain
the status quo or the continuity is through the demand that everybody should fit into its
structure, whereas every individual is unique. Nature is creating something unique all the time.
It is not interested in a perfect man. It is not interested in a religious man. We have placed
before man the goal or the ideal of a perfect man, a truly religious man. So anything you do to
reach that goal of perfection is destroying the sensitivity of this body. It is creating violence
here. It is not interested in that.
Whatever man experiences--self-awareness, self-consciousness--he has sown the seeds of his
total destruction. All those religions have come out of that divisive consciousness in man. All
the teachings of those teachers will inevitably destroy mankind. There is no point in reviving
all those things and starting revivalistic movements. That is dead, finished. Anything that is
born out of this division in your consciousness is destructive is violence. It is so because it is
trying to protect not this living organism, not life, but the continuity of thought. And through
that it can maintain the status quo of your culture or whatever you want to call it, the society.
The problems are neurological. If you give a chance to the body it will handle all those
problems, but if you try to solve them on a psychological level or on an ethical level you are
not going to succeed.
Any energy that you create through thinking is destructive for the body. Energy cannot be
separated from life here. It is one continuous movement. So all the energies you experience as
a result of playing with all those things are not of any interest to the smooth functioning of this
living organism. They are disturbing the harmonious functioning of this body, a very, very
peaceful thing.

The peace there is not this inane dead silence you experience. It's like a volcano erupting all
the time. That is silence. That is peace. The blood is flowing through your veins like a river. If
you tried to magnify the sound of the flow of your blood you will be surprised. It's like the
roar of the ocean. The sound of the beat of your heart is something. You create some funny
experience called the experience of the silent mind which is ridiculous, absurd. That is the
silence that is there--the roar of an ocean.
The body is not interested in your practices or silences. It has no interest in your moral
dilemma or whatever you want to call it. It's not interested in your virtues or vices. As long as
you practice virtues so long you will remain a man of vice. They go together. If you are lucky
enough to be free from this pursuit of virtue as a goal, along with it the vice also goes out of
your system. You will remain a man of violence as long as you follow some idea of becoming
a non-violent, kind, soft, gentle person. A kind man--a man who is practicing kindness and
virtue--is really a menace, not the violent man.
Somewhere along the line culture has put the whole thing on the wrong track by placing
before man the ideal of a perfect man, the ideal of a truly religious man. The religious
experience is born out of this division in his consciousness which is not its nature. Luckily,
animals don't have this division in their consciousness, except the division that is essential for
their survival. Man is worse than an animal, for anything that is born out of thought is
destructive; not only destructive to the body but progressively destructive, moving in the
direction of destroying everything that man has built for himself.
Religion is not going to save man; neither atheism nor communism nor any of those systems.
Not only the teachings but the teachers themselves have sown the seeds of this violence that
we have in this world. You can't put them on a pedestal and say that they should be
exonerated. The man who talked of love is responsible because love and hate go together. So
how can you exonerate them? Why do you want to revive religion? What for? I am not
condemning any particular thing. All are responsible for that. Talk of love is one of the most
absurd things. There must be two. Wherever there is a division there is this destruction.
Kindness needs two. You are kind to somebody or you are kind to yourself. There is a division

there in your consciousness. Anything that is born out of that division is a protective
mechanism and in the long run it is destructive.
Thought is trying to protect itself. That is why it is interested in continuity. The body is not
interested in protecting itself. Whatever intelligence is necessary for the survival of the body is
already there. The jungle we have created through our organizations needs that intellect, the
intellect that we have acquired through our studies, through our culture, through the whole lot.
It has a parallel existence of its own and it is interested in a different kind of survival because
there is no end to the life here. This is only an expression of life. If you and I go, life goes on.
Those lights go off but the electricity continues. Something else will come. It is not interested
in man. Mankind, unfortunately, has such destructive powers which have originated in its past
experience. So the talk of wanting to look at himself, to understand himself, is a divisive
movement in man born out of that self-awareness. That's the foundation upon which the whole
psychological structure is built.
There is a disturbance in the metabolism of the body brought about through drugs, or through
meditation, or through any of those systems and techniques man has invented. You can
experience the oneness of life and unity of life. Look at India, which preaches the unity of life
and the oneness of life. There you have an example. They are all great metaphysicians,
philosophers, everlastingly discussing these things, but it doesn't operate in the lives of the
people.
Understanding is dualism. If that division is not there, there is nothing to understand. You can
talk of intuition. You can talk of a thousand other things. They are all sensitized thoughts.
Your understanding of anything is only for the purpose of changing what is there. You begin
to think differently and you begin to experience differently but basically there is no change
there.
Your wanting to understand anything is only for the purpose of bringing about a change there.
And at the same time you do not want the change. That has created the neurotic situation in
man, wanting two things, change and no change. That is the conflict that is there all the time.
Something there determines that all is not right. That's why you want to bring about a change.
And who is responsible for that demand to change? Culture, society, has placed the demand

before you; namely, that you should be like that, you ought to be like that. You understand?
So you have accepted that as a model for yourself.
There is no inner and outer. What I am trying to say is that there is a feeling, there is a
demand, that there is something more interesting that you can do with yourself, more
meaningful, more purposeful, than your existence is today. That is the demand, you see. That
is why there is this restlessness. You become restless because of this drive in you which is put
in there by the society or culture that makes you feel that there is something more interesting,
more meaningful, more purposeful, that your life can be than what it is today. Your
naturalness is destroyed by that demand which is put in there by the culture. So then, your life
looks meaningless to you if that is all that you can do. You have tried to fill in that boredom
with everything possible. You have all these gimmicks--yoga, meditation and all the
psychology.
Your naturalness is something that you don't have to know. You just have to let that function
in its own way. Your wanting to know that demands some know-how which you want from
somebody. The functioning of the heart is a natural thing. The functioning of all the organs in
your body is very natural. They are not for one moment asking themselves the question, “How
am I functioning?” The whole living organism has this tremendous intelligence which makes
it function in a very natural way.
You are not acting in a natural way because the ideal that has been placed before you by the
culture has falsified the natural actions here. You are frightened of acting in a natural way
because you have been told the way you should act. The things that are there are running very
smoothly and mechanically. You don't have to do a thing about them. The more you try the
more resistance you create.
I am not giving you another gimmick or suggesting anything. I just want you to look at this,
what you are doing to yourself, not to free you from something and take you away from that
because I have some new product to sell. Not at all, I have no new products to sell nor am I
interested in selling anything. We just happen to be here, all of us, for some reason or the
other. Ultimately, what I am emphasizing all the time is, “Look here, there is nothing to

understand.” When that is understood, that there is nothing to understand, all these
conversations become meaningless. So you get up and walk away once and for all. I say,
“Nice meeting you and goodbye.” If the question of how to be happy is dropped, then you
begin to live, you see, not bothering about happiness at all. The more you want it, the more
you search for it, the more unhappy you remain. They go together, you see.
All the positive approaches that man has invented and used for centuries, they have not
resulted in anything useful. They have not produced the results you have been promised. And
yet, you go on and on hoping that somehow, through some miracle, you will be able to
achieve your positive goals, or the goals which are placed before us through the positive
approach. You keep doing it only because you have hope and it is that hope that keeps you
going. Don't be caught up in this structure of thought which always suggests the positive and
negative. Your goals are always positive. Since your goals have failed to give the desired
results, you have begun to look at these things and approach them in a negative way. The
positive and negative approaches function only in the field of thought.
Your positive approach so far has not given you the desired results and I am telling you why. I
am telling you why you are stuck where you are stuck. But immediately you turn around and
say, “Your approach is negative.” It is not at all negative. I am presenting the other side to
neutralize your argument, not to win you over to my point of view or to stress the negative
approach to problems. Your goal being a positive goal, no matter what approach you adopt it
is a positive approach. You may call it a negative approach but it is still a positive approach.
So you must be very clear about the goal. What I am trying to emphasize is that the goal must
go.
The goal which you have placed before yourself has no meaning at all because it has resulted
only in struggle, pain and sorrow. You are using will, as I said a while ago, and the will has a
certain limitation. You can't use it beyond a certain limit. The use of your will and the use of
your effort gives you a sort of additional energy to tackle these problems and to face these
problems but actually it is limited in its scope. The energy that you produce is only a frictional
energy. The will creates friction and that friction gives you some sort of energy but that
energy cannot last long and so you are back again in square one.

All civilizations, all cultures, place before you a goal, whether material or spiritual. There are
ways and means of achieving your material goals but even in this respect there is a lot of pain,
there is a lot of suffering. And you have superimposed on that what is called a spiritual goal.
Christianity, for example, is built on the foundation of suffering as a means to reach your goal.
What you are left with is only the suffering and you make a great big thing out of suffering.
And yet, you are not anywhere near the goal, whatever is the nature of your goal, whereas in
the material world the goal is something tangible.
The instrument which you are using to achieve your material goal does produce certain
results. By using that more and more you can achieve the desired results but there is no
guarantee. The instrument which you are using is limited in its scope. It is applicable only in
this area. So the instrument which you are using to achieve your so-called spiritual goals is the
same instrument. You do not realize that all the spiritual goals that are superimposed on your
so-called material goals are born out of your fantasy because you have divided life into
material and spiritual. It doesn't matter what instrument you use to achieve your goal. Whether
it is material or spiritual it is exactly the same.
I want you to be very clear about the goal. What do you want? It is not the want that is wrong
but the only way you can achieve your material or spiritual goals is through an instrument.
What I am suggesting is that the only instrument you have is thinking. See, one wants to be a
millionaire, and a millionaire wants to be a billionaire. That is the goal. A happy man would
never want to be happy. He wants to be more and more happy or he wants to be permanently
happy.
Sure, you are happy sometimes and you are unhappy some other times. So you want pleasures
and you want those pleasures to be permanent. And at the same time, you also know that the
so-called demand for pleasure, temporary or otherwise, is giving you pain as well. The goal of
every person in this world is exactly the same. What he wants is to have pleasure, not pain--to
be happy, not unhappy. What he is actually struggling and striving hard for is to achieve this
impossible goal of having one without the other.
If you achieve all the goals you have placed before yourself--success, money, name and fame,
position or power--you are happy. In this process, you are struggling hard. You are putting a

lot of will and effort into that. As long as you succeed, you have no problems at all. You
cannot always succeed. You know all that but there is somehow the hope that it will be
possible for you to always succeed. You are frustrated because you find that you cannot
always succeed yet there is still hope. Whether it is for material goals or spiritual goals, the
demand is to succeed in your efforts to reach, attain or accomplish whatever goals you have
placed before yourself.
The body cannot take any sensation, be it pleasurable or painful, for long. It will destroy the
sensitivity of the sensory perceptions and the sensitivity of the nervous system. The moment
you recognize a particular sensation as a pleasurable sensation, naturally there is a demand to
make that pleasurable sensation last longer. So every sensation, depending upon the intensity
of that sensation, which is plagued by you to invest it with more intensity or less intensity, has
a limited life of its own.
The demand comes only when you separate yourself from that pleasurable sensation and begin
to think of how you can extend the limits of the pleasurable sensation or the moments of
happiness. Your thinking has turned that particular demand to make this pleasurable sensation
last longer than its natural duration into a problem. It has turned that into a problem for the
functioning of this body and by so doing it has created a neurological problem. It is doing
everything possible to absorb that, whereas your thinking makes it impossible for this body to
handle that in its own way for the simple reason that you are trying to solve those problems
within the field of your religious or psychological approaches.
Actually, those problems are neurological problems and if the body is left alone to handle
them in its own way it will do a better job than your trying to solve them on psychological or
religious levels. All the solutions that we have been offered and which we have been adopting
for centuries have not done any good except to give us a little bit of comfort to help you bear
the pain. When this understanding dawns on you, then you will realize that the energy that is
there in the body, which is the manifestation of life or expression of life, handles everything in
a tremendously easier way than the frictional thinking which you are generating through your
ideas of how to handle these problems.

You are creating the problems but actually you are not looking at them at all. You are not
dealing with them. You are more interested in solutions than the problems. That makes it
difficult for you to look at the problem. I am suggesting that, “Look here, you don't have any
problems.”
You are not interested in solving the problem because that will put an end to you. You want
the problems to remain. You want the hunger to remain because if you are not hungry you will
not seek this food from all these holy men. What they are giving you are some scraps, bits of
food, and you are satisfied. Even assuming for a moment that he can give you the whole loaf
of bread, which he cannot do, he will only promise to keep it here hidden somewhere. Bit by
bit he gives you and thereby you are not dealing with the problem of hunger. But you are more
interested in getting a bit more from that fellow who is promising you a solution rather than
dealing with your problem of hunger. You are more interested in getting some more crumbs
from that fellow.
You never look at the problem. What is the problem? Anger, for example--where is that
anger? Can you separate the anger from the functioning of this body? It's like a wave in the
ocean. Can you separate the waves from the ocean? You can sit there and wait until the waves
subside so that you can have a swim in the ocean, like King Canute, who sat there for years
and years hoping that those waves in the ocean would disappear so that he could have a swim
in a calm ocean. That will never happen. You can sit there and learn all about these waves, the
high tide and the low tide. The scientists have given us all kinds of explanations but the
knowledge about that is not going to be of any help to you. You are not really dealing with
anger at all.
Where do you feel the anger, first of all? Where do you feel all these so-called problems you
want to be free from--the desires, the burning desires? The desire burns you. Hunger burns
you. So the solutions you have or the means of fulfilling them is very simple and makes it
impossible for that to burn itself out in your system. Where do you feel the fear? You feel it
here in the pit of your stomach. It is part of the body. The body cannot take those high and low
tides of energy that are there in your body. So you are wanting to suppress them for some
spiritual or social reasons. You are not going to succeed.

Anger is energy, a tremendous outburst of energy, and by destroying that energy, through any
means, you are destroying the very expression of life itself. It becomes a problem only when
you try to do something with that energy. When it is absorbed by the system you will not do
the things that you think you will do if the anger is left alone. You are actually not dealing
with the anger but the frustration, or avoiding such a situation which has resulted in
clumsiness in your relationships or in your understanding of yourself.
You want to be prepared to meet such situations as and when they arise in the future. The
instrument which you are using has been used by you every time there is an outburst of anger
yet you have not succeeded in freeing yourself from the anger. You won't come into the
possession of anything extraordinary other than this instrument which you have been using all
these years, and at the same time you hope that somehow this very thing will help you to be
free from the anger tomorrow.
Why are you killing people, thousands of people, for no fault of theirs? Why are you limiting
something which is natural but are not condemning the nations that are dropping bombs on
helpless people? Do you call them sane? Both of them have sprung from the same source. As
long as you do anything to control your anger you will indulge in such atrocious things and
justify them because that is the only way to protect your way of life and your way of thinking.
These two things go together. Why do you justify that? That is insane. He is not hurting you
but he is threatening your way of life. There is a danger of that man taking away what you
consider to be your precious things. This idea of stopping this man from acting when there is
an outburst of anger is exactly the same. The religious man has found that an angry man will
be an antisocial man.
As long as he practices virtue, so long he will remain an antisocial man and he will act out of
anger. When that goal that the society has placed before you, when that same goal which you
adopted for yourself as an ideal goal to be practiced, is finished for you, you will not harm
anybody, either individually or collectively as a nation. You have to deal with the anger. You
are dealing with something totally unrelated to the anger. Not even once do you let that anger
burn itself out within the framework where it originates and functions. Having some therapy
of hitting your pillows, hitting this, that and the other, is just a joke. That does not free the

man from the anger once and for all. It will appear again. So what do you do?
You are not dealing with anger. You will never deal with this anger at all as long as you are
interested in finding out a way of not hitting the person who is coming with a knife. You have
to protect yourself. That is essential. I am not saying for a moment that your anger makes it
impossible for you to deal with that situation. Don't say that it's non-violence or you should
not hurt somebody else. He is hurting you. Even in the Bible it is an eye for an eye, a tooth for
a tooth. You never practice that. Of course, they practice it on a larger scale but in daily life
they say it is something terrible to do. I don't see any problem with that at all.
There is no point in discussing hypothetical situations for the simple reason that the person
who is hopping mad with anger, burning with anger, will not seek and discuss the question of
anger. That's the time to deal with those things, when you are really burning with anger,
burning with desire, burning with all those things that you want to be free from. Otherwise, it
becomes like a classroom discussion--somebody talking on the anatomy of anger, the anatomy
of how the anger arises or the anatomy of love. It's too ridiculous. Or they offer solutions
which don't work when there is a real situation. That's the reason why I don't discuss all these
things. No problem, there's no problem for the individual. When he's mad with anger, that's
the time for him to deal with it. It stops the thinking.
There is no way of separating yourself from the problem. That's what you are trying to do.
That is what I mean by saying that you are putting anger out there and trying to look and deal
with it as if it is an object outside of you. When you separate yourself, the only result is
exactly what you fear would happen. That is inevitable. So you have no way of controlling
that at all. Is there anything that you can do to prevent this separation from what you are? It is
a horrible thing to realize that you are yourself anger and whatever you do to stop that, prevent
it or do something about it is false. That will be tomorrow or in your next life, not now. So
that is what you are.
You are not a spiritual man or a religious man. You can imagine that you are a religious man
because you are trying to control your anger, or trying to be free from anger, or trying to be
less and less angry as the years go by. All that makes you feel that you are not that vicious
man whom you avoid. You are no different. You are not any more spiritual than the people

whom you condemn. Tomorrow you are going to be a marvelous person. You will be free
from anger.
What do you want me to do in the meantime, admire you? Because you have put on the label
that you are a spiritual man or you have put on fancy robes? What do you want me to do? For
that you want me to admire you? There is nothing there to be admired because you are as
vicious as anybody else in this world. Condemning that has no meaning. Adopting a posture
which is totally unrelated to what is happening there has no meaning either.
The religious has no meaning when you are pushed into a corner. Then you will behave
exactly like anybody else. So this culture-- your values, religious or otherwise--haven't
touched a bit there. If man is freed from this moral dilemma which has been the basis of the
whole thinking of man then he will live like a human being, not a spiritual man, not a religious
man. A religious man is no good for the society. A kind man is a menace to the society, one
who is practicing kindness as a fine art. All the destruction has come out of them, one who
talks of love and one who talks about non-violence. All the destructive forces originated in the
thinking of that man.
We are all the inheritors of that culture. We cannot do anything but that. You are freed from
the burden of this, the falseness of the whole culture, that's all that I am saying. Individually,
you are freed from the totality of all the absurdities that have been imposed upon us. So we are
here. We are the inheritors of all that violent culture. Our culture is nothing but to teach man
how to kill and how to be killed, whether it is in the name of religion, or in the name of
political ideology, or in the name of patriotism, or anything you want. I can't be anything
different. That is why I said that the whole thing is moving in the direction of the total
annihilation of man. Such things have set in motion forces of destruction which no power can
stop.
No power, no god, can stop it because those gods themselves have set in motion these forces
of destruction. You see that now happening. When the cave man used the jawbone of an ass to
kill his neighbor there were chances of survival for others. The same cave man who lives there
in the White House will set in motion, will let loose forces of destruction, that may completely
wipe out every form of life on this planet. It has all come out of that thinking of the man who

taught religion, who wanted to establish love on the face of this earth. And see what has been
made out of it!
You can stop it in you. Free yourself from that social structure that is operating in you without
becoming antisocial, without becoming a reformer, without becoming anti-this, anti-that. You
can throw the whole thing out of your system and free yourself from the burden of this culture,
for yourself and by yourself. Whether it has any usefulness for society or not is not your
concern. If there is one individual who walks free you don't have any more the choking feeling
of what this horrible culture has done to you. It's neither East nor West. It's all the same.
Human nature is exactly the same. There's no difference.
You are only interested in what to do. How can we stop? Individually, there isn't a damn thing
that you can do. When that is understood what is there expresses itself. The intelligence that is
there can function much more effectively than all the solutions that man has come out with
through his thinking which is the result of millions of years. The ideal that we have placed
before us, the perfect man, is just a myth. Such a man doesn't exist at all. The ideal man
doesn't exist. It is just a word, an idea. All your life you are trying to become that ideal man
and what you are left with is misery, suffering and hope.
Culture has put the demand in you that is pushing you in the direction of wanting to change
yourself into something. That is what the culture has done. If you want to do something, “Boy,
look here, watch your step.” That is what they are doing. The second movement that comes,
that is the society, “Watch your step,” it says. So that has put fear in you. Then at the same
time it talks of freeing yourself from fear and courage. That is only for the purpose of using
you as a pawn in maintaining the status quo of society.
That is why it is teaching courage, it is teaching fearlessness, so that it can use you to maintain
the continuity of the society. You are a part of that. That is why every time you want to act
what is there is fear and the impossibility of acting. The society is not out there, the culture is
not out there, and unless you are free from that you cannot act. Man is not able to act because
he is all the time thinking in terms of the freedom to act. “How can I be free to act?” That's all
that you are concerned about, the freedom. But you are not acting that freedom. The demand
for the freedom to act is preventing the action, which is neither social nor antisocial.

You want to bring about a change in yourself. The change is the demand of the society so that
you can become a part of that and maintain the continuity of the social structure. When the
demand for bringing about any change in you ceases then the concern to change the world
around you also comes to an end, ipso facto. You are living in a world of your own. You have
created a world of your own experiences and you are trying to project it onto the world. You
have no way of experiencing the reality of the world at all. We have to accept all these things
as valid because they are workable. They help us to function in this world, to communicate
intelligently on that level.
What I am suggesting is that there is no such thing as spirituality at all. If you superimpose
what you call spirituality on what is called material life then you create problems for yourself.
Because you see growth and development in the material world around you, you are applying
that to this so-called spiritual life also. There is only one life. This is a material life and that
other has no relevance. Wanting to change your material life into that so-called religious
pattern given to you, placed before you by these religious people, is destroying the possibility
of your living in harmony and accepting the reality of this material world exactly the way it is.
That is responsible for your pain, for your suffering, for your sorrow. It is a constant struggle
on your part to be like that and to chase something that does not exist and that has no meaning
at all. That gives you the feeling that doing is all that is important for you, not the actual
achievement of that. You are moving farther and farther away. The more effort you put into it
the more you feel good.
Chapter Three: 1983-1984 -- Amsterdam
You are affected by nothing, having erected an impenetrable armor around yourself. You feel
nothing. Unable to understand your situation, you react through thought, which is your ideas
and mentations. Reaction is thought. The pain you are going through there is clearly reflected
without having to experience the pain here. Here there is no experience at all, that is all. In this
natural state you feel the pain of others whether you personally know them or not. Recently
my eldest son was dying of cancer in a hospital nearby. I was in the area and visited him often.

Friends said that I was in intense pain during the whole time until he died.
Suffering is an experience and there is no experience here. You are not one thing and life
another. It is one unitary movement and anything I say about it is misleading, confusing. You
are not a person, not a thing, not a discrete entity surrounded by other things. The unitary
movement is not something which you can experience.
What I am saying conflicts with your logical framework. You are using logic to continue that
separative structure, that is all. Your questions are again thoughts and therefore reactive. All
thought is reactive. You are desperately protecting this armor, this shield of thought, and are
frightened that the movement of life might smash your frontiers. Life is like a river in spate
lashing at the banks, threatening the limits that have been placed around it.
Your thought structure and your actual physiological framework are limited but life itself is
not. That is why life in freedom is painful to the body. The tremendous outburst of energy that
takes place here is a painful thing to the body, blasting every cell as it goes. You cannot
imagine how it is in your wildest dreams. This is why it is misleading no matter how I put it.
Your belief in a unitary movement of life is just a groundless belief, lacking any certainty.
You have cleverly rationalized what the gurus and holy books have taught you. Your beliefs
are the result of blind acceptance of authority, all secondhand stuff. You are not separate from
your beliefs. When your precious beliefs and illusions come to an end, you come to an end.
My talking is nothing more than the response to your pain which you are expressing through
questions, logical arguments and other mentations. There is nobody here talking, giving
advice, feeling pain, or experiencing anything at all. I have nothing here of my own, no
obvious or hidden agenda, no product to sell, no axe to grind, nothing to prove.
The body is not concerned with the afterlife or any kind of permanency. It struggles to survive
and multiply now. The fictitious beyond, created by thought out of fear, is really the demand
for more of the same in modified form. This demand for repetition of the same thing over and
over again is the demand for permanence. Such permanence is foreign to the body. Thought's
demand for permanence is choking the body and distorting perception. Thought sees itself as
not just the protector of its own continuity but also of the body's continuity. Both are utterly

false.
You will continue doing what you are doing. Its meaninglessness does not even occur to you. I
tell you, when you stop doing things out of hope and the desire for continuity, all you do along
with it stops. You will stay afloat. But still the hope remains there, “There must be some way,
perhaps I am not doing it the right way.” In other words, we have to accept the absurdity of
depending upon anything. We must face our helplessness.
Your problems continue because of the false solutions you have invented. If the answers are
not there the questions cannot be there. They are interdependent. Your problems and solutions
go together. Because you want to use certain answers to end your problems, those problems
continue. The numerous solutions offered by all these holy people--the psychologists, the
politicians--are not really solutions at all. That is obvious. If there were legitimate answers
there would be no problems. They can only exhort you to try harder, practice more
meditations, love, and more and more of the same. That is all they can do. The teacher, guru
or leader who offers solutions is also false, along with his so-called answers. He is not doing
any honest work, only selling a cheap, shoddy commodity in the marketplace. If you brushed
aside your hope, fear and naiveté, and treated these fellows like businessmen, you would see
that they do not deliver the goods and never will. But you go on and on buying these bogus
wares offered up by the experts.
All their philosophies cannot compare to the native wisdom of the body itself. What they are
calling mental activity, spiritual activity, emotional activity and feelings are really all one
unitary process. This body is highly intelligent and does not need these scientific or
theological teachings to survive and procreate. Take away all your fancies about life, death
and freedom, and the body remains unscathed, functioning harmoniously. It does not need
your or my help. You don't have to do a thing.
The body knows that it will come to an end in that particular form only to continue on in
others. Those leaders who would direct your spiritual life cannot be honest about these things
for they make a living out of fear, speculations about future life and the mystery of death. And
as for you, the followers, you are not really interested in the future of man, only in your own

petty little destinies.
You are all neurotic people. You talk against birth control, drone on and on about the
preciousness of life, then bomb and massacre. It is too absurd. You are concerned with an
unborn life while you are killing thousands and thousands of people by bombing, starvation,
poverty and terrorism. Your concern about life is only to make a political issue out of it. It is
just an academic discussion.
Are you interested in the future of mankind? Your expressions of anger, righteousness and
caring have no meaning to me. It is just a ritual. You sit and talk, that's all. You are not at all
angry. If you were angry at this moment you would not ask this question even to yourself.
You sit everlastingly talking of anger. The angry wouldn't talk about it. The body has already
acted with regard to that anger by absorbing it. The anger is burnt, finished then and there.
You don't do anything. The body just absorbs it, that is all. If all this is too much for you, if it
depresses you, don't ever go to the holy men. Do anything but don't expect the holy business
to help you. It is a waste of time.
All moral, spiritual, ethical values are false. The psychologists, searching for a pragmatic way
out, are now at the end of their tethers, even turning to the spiritual people for answers. They
are lost and yet the answers must come from them, not from the encrusted, useless traditions
of the holy business.
The so-called messiahs have left nothing but misery in this world. If a modern messiah came
before you, he would be unable to help you at all. And if he can't help no one can. Truth is a
movement. You can't capture it, contain it, give expression to it or use it to advance your
interests. The moment you capture it, it ceases to be the truth. What is the truth for me is
something that cannot, under any circumstances, be communicated to you.
The certainty here cannot be transmitted to another. For this reason, the whole guru business is
absolute nonsense. This has always been the case, not just now. Your self-denial is to enrich
the priests. Those in the holy business thrive on the stupidity and credulity of others. The
politicians, similarly, thrive on the gullibility of man. It is the same everywhere.
When you die, the body is in a prostrate position. It stops functioning and that is the end of it.
But in this case, the body somehow renewed itself. It happens daily as a matter of course now.

The whole process took years to stabilize. For me, life and death are one, not two separate
things. Just let me warn you that if what you are aiming at, enlightenment, really happens you
will die. There will be a physical death because there has to be a physical death to be in that
state. It is like playing around with controlling your breath because you find it amusing. But if
you hold the breath long enough you choke to death.
To describe that state as a meditative state full of awareness is romantic hogwash. Awareness--
what a fantastic gimmick used to fool themselves and others. You can't be aware of every
step. You only become self-conscious and awkward if you try. I once knew a man who was a
harbor pilot. He had been reading about passive awareness and attempted to put it into
practice. For the first time he nearly wrecked the ship he was guiding. Walking is automatic
and if you try to be aware of every step you will go crazy. So don't invent meditative steps.
Things are bad enough. The meditative state is worse.
Any remedy I offered you would become part of your search, that is, more romantic stuff.
That is why I never tire of saying that I have no wares to sell, much less offer you new and
better methods, whereby you can continue your search. I deny the validity of that search
entirely.
If your meditations, methods and techniques meant anything you wouldn't be here asking
these questions. They are all means for you to bring about change. I maintain that there is
nothing to change or transform. You accept that there is something to change as an article of
faith. You never question the existence of the one who is to be changed. The whole mystique
of enlightenment is based upon the idea of transforming yourself. I cannot convey or transmit
my certainty that you, and all the authorities down through the centuries, are false. They, and
the spiritual goods they peddle, are utterly false.
There is no particular charm in being antisocial. I don't give people what they want. When
they realize they will not get what they want here they invariably go away. As they are leaving
for the last time I like to add the rider, “You won't get it anywhere.” When people come to talk
they find themselves confronted with silence itself. That is why everybody who comes is
automatically silent thereafter. If he cannot stand the silence and insists upon talking and

discussing things he will be forced to disagree and walk out.
But if you stay long you will be silenced, not because it is over-persuasive, more rational than
you are, but because it is silence itself silencing that movement there. That silence burns
everything here. All experiences are burnt. That is why talking to people doesn't exhaust me.
It is energy to me. That is why I can talk for the whole day without showing any fatigue.
Talking with so many people over the years has had no impact upon me. All that I or they
have said is burnt here, leaving no trace. This is not, unfortunately, the case with you.
Any action that takes place at the conscious level of your thinking existence is a reaction. The
one and only action is the response of this living organism to the stimuli around it. That
stimulus-response process is a unitary phenomenon. There is no division between action and
reaction except when thought interferes and artificially separates them. Otherwise, it is an
automatic, unitary process and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
Just as in reality there is no separation of action and reaction, so there is no room for the
religious man in the natural scheme of things. The fresh movement of life threatens his source
of power and prestige. Still, he does not want to retire. He must be thrown out. Religion is not
a contractual arrangement, either public or private. It has nothing to do with the social
structure or its management. Religious authority wants to continue its hold on the people but
religion is entirely an individual affair.
I am simply pointing out the absurdity of this conversation. Once you get the hang of it you
just go. I have no message to give mankind.
We have set in motion irreversible forces. We have polluted the sky, the waters, everything.
Only technology progresses, while we as a race are moving closer to complete and total
destruction of ourselves and the world. Everything in man's consciousness is pushing the
whole world, which nature has so laboriously created, towards destruction. There has been no
qualitative change in man's thinking. We feel about our neighbors just as the frightened cave
man felt towards his. The only thing that has changed is our ability to destroy our neighbor
and his property.
Violence is an integral part of the evolutionary process. That violence is essential for the

survival of the living organism. You can't condemn the hydrogen bomb for it is an extension
of the policeman there and your desire to be protected. Where do you draw the line? You
can't. We have no way of reversing the whole thing.
Love and hate are the same. They have together resulted in massacre, murder, assassination
and wars. This is a matter of history, not my opinion. It is the same thing everywhere. All our
political systems have come out of that religious thinking, whether of the East or of the West.
In light of these facts, how can you have any faith in religion? What is the good of reviving
the whole past, the useless past? It is because your living has no meaning to you that you
dwell on the past. You are not even drifting. You have no direction at all. You are just
floating. Obviously, there is no purpose to your life, otherwise you would not live in the past.
What has not helped you cannot help anybody. No matter what I am saying, you are the
medium of expression. You have already captured what I am saying and are making of it a
new ideology and means to attain something. What I am trying to say is that you must
discover something for yourself. But do not be misled into thinking that what you find will be
of use to society, that it can be used to change the world. You are finished with society, that is
all.
God is the ultimate pleasure, uninterrupted happiness. No such thing exists. Your wanting
something that does not exist is the root of your problem. Transformation, liberation and all
that stuff are just variations on the same theme, permanent happiness. The body cannot take
that. The pleasure of sex, for instance, is by nature temporary. The body can't take
uninterrupted pleasure for long. It would be destroyed. Wanting to impose a fictitious,
permanent state of happiness on the body is a serious neurological problem. It never strikes
you that the enlightenment and God you are after is just the ultimate pleasure, a pleasure,
moreover, which you have invented.
If I narrate the story of my life it is as if I am describing somebody else's life. There is no
attachment, sentiment or emotional content for me when I consider my life. You get the wrong
impression if you think I harbor any private, precious thoughts or feelings regarding my past.

What is the difference whether or not you find this freedom, this enlightenment, or not? You
will not be there to benefit from it. What possible good can this state do you? This state takes
away everything you have. While living, the body has died. Somehow, the body, having gone
through death, is kept alive. Here you lose everything.
I am only saying that you must go find out for yourself if there is anything behind these
meaningless abstractions being thrown at you, all the abstract, mystical terms used to seduce
gullible people. Life has to be described in pure and simple physical and physiological terms.
It must be demystified and depsychologized.
Don't talk of higher centers and chakras. It is not these but glands that control the human body.
It is the glands that give the instructions for the functioning of this organism. In your case, you
have introduced an interloper, thought. In your natural state, thought ceases to control
anything. It comes into temporary function when a challenge is put before it, immediately
falling into the background when it is no longer needed.
Forget about the ideal society and the ideal human being. Just look at the way you are
functioning, that is the important thing. What has prevented the organism from fully flowering
into its own uniqueness is culture. It has placed the wrong thing, the ideal person, before man.
The whole thing is born out of the divisive consciousness of mankind. It has brought us
nothing but violence. That is why no two gurus or saviors ever agree. Each is intent upon
preaching his own nonsense.
You want to know. You believe that in knowing my story you will be able to duplicate what
happened to me. You, having been brainwashed all your life, can only think in terms of
imitation. You think that somehow you can repeat what happened to me, that is all. That is
your motive for coming.
It is not a new approach to that religious stuff. It is completely different. It has absolutely
nothing to do with all that romantic, spiritual, religious stuff. If you translate what I am saying
into religious terms you are missing the point entirely. Religion, God, soul, are all just words,
ideas used to keep your psychological continuity intact. When these thoughts are not there,
what is left is the simple, harmonious physical functioning of the organism.
I am able to describe the way this organism is functioning because your question has created

the challenge here. Your questions create the conditions necessary for this response to happen.
So it is describing itself, but that is not the way it is functioning. It functions in a state of not
knowing. I never ask myself how I am functioning. I never question my actions before, during
or after they occur. You can't fit me into a category. Any attempt on your part to translate
what I am saying into your religious framework is to miss the point. I am not one of your holy
men who say, “I am hanging so come hang with me.” All that stuff is a form of madness.
Your intellectual understanding, in which you have a tremendous investment, has not done
one damn thing for you so far. You persist in the cultivation of this intellectual understanding
knowing all the while that it has never helped you at all. This is amazing. When hoping and
attempting to understand is not there then life becomes meaningful.
Life, your existence, has a tremendous living quality about it. All your notions about love,
infinite bliss and peace only block this natural energy of existence. How can I make you
understand that what I am describing has absolutely nothing to do with all that religious stuff?
It is really something. It is no good throwing all this junk at me. Whatever hits this is
immediately burnt. That is the nature of the energy here.
The spiritual people are the most dishonest people. I am emphasizing that foundation upon
which the whole of spirituality is built. If there is no spirit then the whole talk of spirituality is
bosh and nonsense. You can't come into your own being until you are free from the whole
thing surrounding the concept of self. To be really on your own, the whole basis of spiritual
life, which is erroneous, has to be destroyed. It does not mean that you become fanatical or
violent, burning down temples, tearing down the idols, destroying the holy books like a bunch
of drunks. It is not that at all. It is a bonfire inside of you. Everything that mankind has
thought and experienced must go. The incredible violence in the world today has been created
by the Jesuses and Buddhas.
It is the ones who believe in God, who preach peace and talk of love, who have created the
human jungle. Compared to man's jungle, nature's jungle is simple and sensible! The so-called
civilized man kills for ideals and beliefs while the animals kill only for survival. Because man
is worse than other animals it made it necessary and possible for him to create the moral
dilemma. When man first experienced the division in his consciousness, when he experienced

his self-consciousness, he felt superior to other animals, which he is not, and therein sowed the
seeds of his own destruction.
Awareness is not a divided state. There are not two states, awareness and something else.
There are not two things. It is not that you are aware of something. Awareness is simply the
action of the brain. The idea that you can use awareness to bring about some happier state of
affairs, some sort of transformation or God-knows-what, is absurd. Awareness cannot be used
to bring about a change in yourself or the world around you.
All this rubbish about the conscious and the unconscious, awareness and the self, is all a
product of modern psychology. The idea that you can use awareness to get somewhere
psychologically is very damaging. After more than a hundred years we seem unable to free
ourselves from the psychological rubbish, Freud and the whole gang. Just what exactly do you
mean by consciousness? You are conscious, aware, only through thought. The other animals
use thought. The dog, for example, can recognize its owner in a simple manner. They
recognize without using language. Humans have added to the structure of thought, making it
much more complex.
Thought is not yours or mine. It is our common inheritance. There is no such thing as your
mind and my mind. There is only mind, the totality of all that has been known, felt and
experienced by man, handed down from generation to generation. We are all thinking and
functioning in that thought sphere just as we all share the same atmosphere for breathing. The
thoughts are there to function and communicate in this world sanely and intelligently.
Knowledge--that is all that is there. The self is nothing more than the totality of the inherited
knowledge passed on to us from generation to generation. You teach the child to distinguish
between colors, to read, to imitate manners. It is relative to each culture. Gestures and
expressions constituted the first language. Later, words were added on. We still use gestures to
supplement our spoken words because we feel that words alone are inadequate to fully express
what we want to convey.
All this is not to say that we can really know anything about thought. We can't. You become
conscious of thought only when you make it an object of thought. Otherwise, you don't even

know you are thinking. We use thought only to understand something out there, to remember
something or to achieve something. Otherwise, we don't even know if thought is there or not.
Thought is not separate from the movement of thought. Thought is action and without it you
cannot act. There is no such thing as pure, spontaneous, thought-free action at all. To act is to
think.
You have a self-starting, self-perpetuating mechanism which I call the self. This does not
mean that there is actually an entity there. I do not want or mean to give that connotation to
that word. Where is this ego or self that you talk of? Your non-existent self has heard of
spirituality and bliss from someone. To experience this thing called bliss you feel you must
control your thoughts. It is impossible. You will burn yourself and die if you attempt it.
The demand for more and more experience constitutes your present, which is born out of the
past. If that is seen, there is no future at all. Any achievement you are interested in is in the
future. The only way that the future can come into operation is in the present moment.
Unfortunately, in the present moment what is in operation is the past. Your past is creating
your future. In the past you were happy or unhappy, foolish or wise. In the future you will be
the opposite.
When the past is not in operation there is no present at all, for what you are calling the present
is the past repeating itself. In an actual state of here and now there is no past in operation and
therefore no future. The only way the past can survive and maintain its continuity is through
the constant demand to experience the same thing over and over. That is why life has become
a bore. Life has become boring because we have made of it a repetitive thing. So what we
mistakenly call the present is really the repetitive past projecting a fictitious future. Your
goals, your search, your aspirations, are cast in that mold.
From your knowledge out of the past you ask questions and the very motive of your asking is
only to gain more knowledge from someone else so that your knowledge structure can
continue. You are really not interested in this at all. Your knowledge coming to an end means
that you are coming to an end. Where, you ask, is this knowledge, the past? Is it in your brain?
Where is it? It is all over your body. It is in every cell of your body.
It doesn't matter what the object of that search is--God, a beautiful woman, whatsoever--it is

all the same search and that hunger will never be satisfied. That hunger must burn itself out
completely without knowing satisfaction. The thirst you have must burn itself out without
being quenched. It dawns on you that this is not the way and it is finished.
What I am emphasizing is that we are trying to solve our basic human problems through a
psychological framework when actually the problem is neurological. The body is involved.
Take desire. As long as there is a living body, there will be desire. It is natural. Thought has
interfered and tried to suppress, control and moralize about desire to the detriment of mankind.
We are trying to solve the problem of desire through thought. It is thinking that has created the
problem. You somehow continue to hope and believe that the same instrument can solve your
other problems as well. You hope against hope that thought will pull you through but you will
die in hope just as you have lived in hope. That is the refrain of my doom song.
Unless you are free from the desire of all desires--liberation or self-realization--you will be
miserable. The ultimate goal which society has placed before us is the one that has to go. Until
you are free from that desire you cannot be free from any of your miseries. By suppressing
these desires you are not going to be free. This realization is the essential thing, going as it
does to the crux of the problem.
It is society that has placed before us the desire for freedom, the desire for liberation, the
desire for God, the desire for self-realization. That is the desire you must be free from. Then
all these other desires fall into their own natural rhythm. You suppress these desires only
because you are afraid society will punish you if you act on them or because you see them as
obstacles to your main desire, freedom.
If this kind of thing should happen to you, you will find yourself back in a primeval state,
without primitivity and without any volition on your part. It just happens. Such a free man is
not in conflict with society any more. He is not antisocial, not at war with the world. He sees
that it can't be any the different. He doesn't want to change society at all. The demand for
change has ceased. Any doing in any direction is violence. Any effort is violence. Anything
you do with thought to create a peaceful state of mind is using force and so is violent. Such an
approach is absurd. You are trying to enforce peace through violence. Meditation is violent.

The living organism is very peaceful. You don't have to do a thing. The peacefully functioning
body doesn't give a damn for your ecstasies or blissful states. People have abandoned the
natural intelligence of the body.
All I am saying is that the peace you are seeking is already inside you in the harmonious
functioning of the body. Anything you do to free yourself from anything, for whatever reason,
is destroying the sensitivity, clarity and freedom that is already there.
There is no question of your seeing things as they are. You can't see things as they are. You
never leave any experience or feeling you have alone. You have to capture and interpret that
feeling within the framework of the known. You are happy or unhappy only as you have
knowledge about and experience of happiness and unhappiness. So everything has to be
brought within the framework of the known before you can experience it. The movement of
the known is gathering momentum within you. Its only interest is to continue. There is no
entity, nothing there to give itself continuity. It is just the movement of thought, the self-
perpetuating separation. It is mechanical. Anything you try to do about it only adds
momentum to it.
It is the desire to reach a particular goal, an all important goal, that must go, not the countless
petty little desires. The only reason you try to manipulate or control the petty desires is that
such control is a part of your strategy to attain the highest goal, the desire of all desires.
Eliminate that main goal and the others fall into a natural pattern and pose no problem for you
or for the world. You won't get anywhere by trying to endlessly control and manipulate these
numerous desires. It is vicious in its nature.
The so-called highest goal is like the horizon. The further you move towards it the further it
recedes. The goal, like the horizon, is not really there. It is a projection of your own fear and it
moves away from you as you pursue it. How can you keep up with it? There is nothing that
you can do. Still, it is desire that keeps you moving. No matter in which direction you move, it
is the same.
What you experience through your separative consciousness is an illusion. You can't say that
falling bombs are an illusion. It is not an illusion. Only your experience of it is an illusion. The

reality of the world that you are experiencing now is an illusion. That is all I am trying to say.
There is no such thing as absolute. It is thought and thought alone that has created the
absolute. Absolute zero, absolute power, absolute perfection, these have been invented by the
holy men and experts. They kidded themselves and others. Down the centuries, the saints,
saviors and prophets of mankind have kidded themselves and everybody else. Perfection and
absolutes are false. You are trying to imitate and relate your behavior according to these
absolutes and it is falsifying you. You are actually functioning in an entirely different way.
You are brutal. You feel you must be peaceful. It is contradictory. That's all I'm pointing out.
The certainty that dawned upon me is something which cannot be transmitted. It does not
mean that I am superior, a chosen one, one in whom all the virtues are rolled into one, not at
all. I am just an ordinary man and have nothing to do with it. This certainly blasts everything
including the claims of the so-called religious.
What I am trying to put across is that there is no such thing as God. It is the mind that out of
fear has created God. Fear is passed on from generation to generation. What is there is fear,
not God. If you are lucky enough to be free from fear then there is no God. There is no
ultimate reality, no God, nothing. Fear itself is the problem, not God. Wanting to be free from
fear is itself fear. You see, you love fear. The ending of fear is death and you don't want that to
happen. I am not talking of wiping out the phobias of the body. They are necessary for
survival. The death of fear is the only death.
You are blind. You see nothing. When you actually do see and perceive for the first time that
there is no self to realize, no psyche to purify, no soul to liberate, it will come as a tremendous
shock to that instrument. You have invested everything in that--the soul, mind, psyche,
whatever you wish to call it--and suddenly it is exploded as a myth. It is difficult for you to
look at reality, at your actual situation. One look does the trick. You are finished.
I don't see anything other than the physical activity of the body. Spirituality is the invention of
the mind and the mind is a myth. Your traditions are choking you but, unfortunately, you don't
do anything. You actually love being choked. You love the burden of the cultural garbage

sack, the dead refuse of the past. It has to drop away naturally. It just drops. You don't depend
upon knowledge anymore except as a useful tool to function sanely in this world.
Wanting has to go. Wanting to be free from something that is not there is what you call
sorrow. Sorrow is there for you as long as you think. There is actually no sorrow there to be
free from. Thinking about and struggling against sorrow is sorrow. Since you can't stop
thinking, and thinking is sorrow, you will always suffer. There is no way out, no escape.
Suppose I say that this meaninglessness is all there is for you, all there can ever be for you.
What will you do? The false and absurd goal you have before you is responsible for that
dissatisfaction and meaninglessness in you. Do you think life has any meaning? Obviously,
you don't. You have been told that there is meaning, that there must be a meaning to life. Your
notion of the meaningful keeps you from facing this issue and makes you feel that life has no
meaning. If the idea of the meaningful is dropped then you will see meaning in whatever you
are doing in daily life.
Whatever you want, even the so-called spiritual goals, is materialistic in value. What, if I may
ask, is so spiritual about it? If you want to achieve a spiritual goal, the instrument you use will
be the same which you use to achieve materialistic goals, namely thought. You don't actually
do anything about it. You just think. So you are just thinking that there must be some purpose
to life. And because thought is matter, its object, the spiritual or meaningful life, is also
matter. Spirituality is materialism. In any event, you do not act, you just think, which is to
postpone. There is simply nothing else thought can do.
That instrument called thought, which you are employing to achieve your so-called spiritual
goals, is the result of the past. Thought is born in time, it functions in time and any results it
seeks are bound to be in and of time also. And time is postponement, the tomorrow.
Understanding your goal is the main thing. To achieve that goal implies struggle, battle, effort,
will, that is all. There is no guarantee that you will reach your goal. You assume the goal is
there. You have invented the goal to give yourself hope but hope means tomorrow. Hope is
necessary for tomorrow, not for today. You want more knowledge so you can develop better
techniques for reaching your goal. You know that there is no guarantee that more experience,
more knowledge, more systems and more methods will help you reach your goal yet you

persist. It is all you know how to do. Seeing today demands action. Seeing tomorrow involves
only hope.
The energy you are devoting to the search, or whatever you wish to call it, is taking away the
energy you need to live. You are obsessed with finding meaning in life and that is consuming
a lot of energy. If that energy is released from the search for meaning it can be used to see the
futility of all search. Then your life becomes meaningful and the energy may be used for some
useful purpose. Life, the so-called material life, has a meaning of its own, but you have been
told that it is devoid of meaning and have superimposed a fictitious layer of spiritual meaning
over it.
There is nothing to be achieved, nothing to accomplish. Here there is no need to sit in special
postures and control your breath. Even while my eyes are open, in fact no matter what I am
doing, I am in a state of moksha. The knowledge you have about moksha is what is keeping
you away from it. Moksha comes after the ending of all you have ever known, at death. The
body has to become like a corpse before that knowledge, which is locked into every cell in the
body, ceases.
Your highly praised inventiveness springs from your thinking, which is essentially a
protective mechanism. The mind has invented both religion and dynamite to protect what it
regards as its best interests. There is no good or bad in this sense. Don't you see? All these
bad, brutal, terrible people who should have been eliminated long ago are thriving and
successful. Don't think that you can get off this merry-go-round or that by pretending to be
spiritually superior you are avoiding any complicity. You are that.
There is no love in the world. Everybody wants the same thing. Whosoever is the most
ruthless gets it, as long as he can get away with it. Getting what you want in this world is a
relatively easy thing if you are ruthless enough. I had everything a man could want, every kind
of desirable experience, and it all failed me. Therefore, I can never recommend my path to
anyone, having eventually faced the falseness of that path myself and rejected it. I would
never even hint that there was any validity in all those experiences and practices.

The prophets were all wrong, as far as I am concerned. As long as you harbor any hope or
faith in these authorities, living or dead, so long this certainty cannot be transmitted to you.
This certainty somehow dawns on you when you see for yourself that all of them are wrong.
When you see all this for yourself for the first time you explode. That explosion hits life at a
point that has never been touched before. It is absolutely unique. So whatever I may be saying
cannot be true for you. The moment you see it for yourself, you make what I am saying
obsolete and false. All that came before is negated in that fire. You can't come into your own
uniqueness unless the whole of human experience is thrown out of your system. It cannot be
done through any volition or the help of anything. Then you are on your own.
When once you are freed from the pairs of opposites--right and wrong, good and bad--you will
never be wrong. But until then the problem will be there. It is like accidentally touching a live
wire. You are much too frightened to touch it through your own volition. By sheer accident,
this thing touches you, burning everything. It burns out this search, the hunger. The hunger
stops, not because it is satisfied. The hunger can never be satiated, especially by the traditional
food that is offered. With the burning away of that hunger the duality ceases, that is all.
My interest is not to knock off what others have said (that is too easy) but to knock off what I
am saying. More precisely, I am trying to stop what you are making out of what I am saying.
This is why my talking sounds contradictory to others. I am forced by the nature of your
listening to always negate the first statement with another statement. Then the second
statement is negated by a third and so on. My aim is not some comfy dialectical thesis but the
total negation of everything that can be expressed.
Anything you try to make out of my statements is not it. You sense a freshness, a living
quality, to what is being said here. That is so, but this cannot be used for anything. It is
worthless. All you can do with it is to try to organize it, create organizations, open schools,
publish holy books, celebrate birthdays, sanctify holy temples and the like, thus destroying
any life it may have had in it. No individual can be helped by such things. They only help
those who would live by the gullibility of others.

There was an outburst of energy which is utterly different from the energy that is born out of
thinking. All spiritual, mystical experiences are born out of thought. They are thought-induced
states, nothing more. The energy here that is burning all thought as it arises tends to
accumulate, eventually it has to escape. The physical limitations of the body act as obstacles
to the escape of this unique energy. When it escapes it goes up, never down, and never returns.
When this extraordinary energy, which is atomic, escapes it causes tremendous pain. It is not
the pain you are familiar with. It has nothing to do with it. If it did, the body would be
shattered. It is not matter converting into energy. It is atomic. The process goes on and on
while the pain comes and goes. It is like the tremendous relief when a tooth is extracted. That
is the kind of relief that is there, not the spiritual.
The translation of this as bliss is very misleading. Through thought anyone can create those
experiences but it is not actually bliss. The real thing is not something that can be experienced.
Anything you can experience is old. That means everything you experience or understand is
tradition.
In other words, I am trying to free you not from the past, the conditioning, but rather from
what I am saying. I am not suggesting any way out because there is no way. I have stumbled
into this and freed myself from the paths of others. I can't make the same mistake they did. I
will never suggest that anyone use me as a model or follow in my footsteps.
My path can never be your path. If you attempt to make this your path you will get caught in a
rut. No matter how refreshing, revolutionary or fantastic, it is still a rut, a copy, a secondhand
thing. I myself do not know how I stumbled into this so how do you expect me to give it to
another? My mission, if there is any, is to debunk every statement I have ever made. If you
take seriously and try to use or apply what I have said you will be in danger.
Moksha cannot be transmitted to another because there is nothing there to transmit. Neither is
there anything to renounce. What is it that these teachers suggest you should renounce? Even
your scripture, the Kathopanishad, says that you must renounce the very search itself. The
renunciation of renunciation happens not through practice, discussion, money or intellect.
These are the least of things. A rough translation of the original Sanskrit is, “Whomsoever it
chooses, to him it is revealed.” If this is so then where is the room for practices and volition?

It comes randomly, not because you deserve it.
If you are lucky enough to have this dawn on you, you die. The continuity of thought dies.
The ending of thought is the beginning of physical death. What you experience is the
emptiness of the void. Just wanting to be free of egoism is insufficient. You must go through a
clinical death to be free from thought and egoism. The body will actually get stiff, the
heartbeat slows and you will become corpse-like. The ideas you have about that natural state
are totally unrelated to what it actually is. You are trying to capture and give expression to
what you hope is that state. It is an absurd exercise. What is there is only the movement to
capture, nothing else. All the rest is speculation.
Knowledge is not something mysterious or abstract. Knowledge is just naming things. The
knowledge you have of the world creates the objects you are experiencing. The actual
existence or non-existence of something out there in the world is not something you can
determine or experience for yourself except through the help of knowledge, and this
knowledge is not yours. It is something which you and your ancestors have accumulated over
a long time. What you call the act of knowing is nothing other than this accumulated memory.
You have personally added to and modified that knowledge but essentially it doesn't belong to
you at all.
There is nothing there inside you but the totality of this knowledge you have accumulated.
That is what you are. You cannot even directly experience the reality of the world in which
you are functioning, much less some world beyond. There is no world beyond space and time.
It is your invention based upon the vague promises of the holy men. Our sense of value
springs from the world as it is imposed on us. We must accept the world.
Tradition is what you are, what you call you. No matter how you may modify it, it continues.
In life, everything is temporary, and the attempt to give continuity to conditioning, which is
based upon thought, is pathological in nature. You treat the psychological and the pathological
as if they were two different things. Actually, there is only the pathological there. Your
conditioning that makes you feel separate from yourself and the world is pathological.
All your actions spring from the same source, thinking. The thoughts themselves cannot do

any harm. It is when you attempt to use, censor and control those thoughts to get something
that your problems begin. You have no recourse but to use thought to get what you want in
this world, but when you seek to get what does not exist--God, bliss, love, etc.--through
thought you only succeed in pitting one thought against another, creating misery for yourself
and the world.
When the thought structure, pressed into the service of fear and hope, cannot achieve what it
wants, or cannot be certain, it introduces what you call faith. When your beliefs have gotten
you nowhere you are told you must cultivate faith. In other words, you must have hope.
Whether you are seeking God or bliss, peace of mind or, more tangibly, happiness, you end up
relying on hope, belief and faith. These dependencies are the tokens of your failure to get the
results you desire.
Every thought that is born has to die. If a thought does not die it cannot be reborn. It has to die
and with it you die. But instead of dying with each thought and breath, you hook up each
thought with the next, creating a false continuity. It is that continuity that is the problem. Your
insecurity springs from your refusal to face the temporary nature of thought. It is a little easier
to talk to those who have meditated because they experience the futility of it and can see
where they are hung up.
Your morality, or the lack of it, is of no importance compared to the fact that you are dead.
You are always operating in and through your dead memory. Memory is nothing more than
the same old nonsense repeating itself, that's all. All you know or can ever know is memory,
and memory is thought. Your ceaseless thinking is only giving you continuity. Why do you
have to do that all the time? It is not worth it. You are wearing yourself out. When there is a
need for it one can understand.
You are mulling over the future or the past all the time, oblivious to the present. There is no
future in relation to your problem. Any solution you think of is in the future and is therefore
useless. If there is anything that can happen it must happen now. Since you don't want
anything to happen now you push it away into something you have named the future. What
you have in place of the present is fear. Then begins the whole exhausting search for a way to

be free from fear. Do you really want this kind of freedom?
Anything you want to be free from, for whatever reason, is the very thing that can free you.
You are always dealing with a pair of opposites, so being free of one is to be free from the
other, its opposite. Within the framework of the opposites there is no freedom. That is why I
always say, “You haven't got a chance.” Likewise, the man who is not concerned with
morality will not be interested in immorality. The answer to selfishness lies in selfishness, not
a fictitious opposite called selflessness. Freedom from anger lies in anger, not in non-anger.
Freedom from greed lies in greed, not in non-greed.
The whole religious business is nothing but moral codes of conduct. You must be generous,
compassionate, loving, while all the time you remain greedy and callous. Codes of conduct are
set by society in its own interests, sacred or profane. There is nothing religious about it. The
religious man puts the priest, the censor, inside you. Now the policeman has been
institutionalized and placed outside you. Religious codes and strictures are no longer
necessary. It is all in the civil and criminal codes. You needn't bother with these religious
people anymore. They are obsolete. But they don't want to lose their hold over people. It is
their business. Their livelihood is at stake.
Your search for happiness only succeeds in destroying the sensitivity and intelligence of the
nervous system. Wanting what does not exist--the romantic, religious, spiritual stuff--only
adds momentum to that false continuity, which destroys the body. It is radically disturbing the
chemical balance of the body. The body, which is only interested in survival and procreation,
treats both pain and pleasure alike. It is you who insist on stopping pain and extending
pleasure. The body's response to both pleasure and pain is the same, it groans. What does the
body want? It doesn't want anything except to function. All other things are the inventions of
thought.
The body has no separate, independent existence of its own apart from pleasure and pain. The
various vibrations affecting the body may differ in intensity but it is you who divide them into
good and bad. You are constantly translating vibrations that hit the body into experiences. The
body's natural intelligence is correctly processing the sensory input without your having to do

a thing. It is similar to how the body turns over many times during sleep without your being
aware of it, much less trying to control it. The body is handling itself.
You are all the time interfering with the natural functioning of the nervous system. When a
sensation hits your nervous system, the first thing you do is to name it and categorize it as
pleasure or pain. The next step is that you want to continue the pleasurable sensations and stop
the painful sensations. First, the recognition of a sensation as pleasure or pain is itself painful.
Second, the attempt to extend the life of one kind of sensation and to stop another kind of
sensation is also painful. Both activities are choking the body. In the very nature of things,
every sensation has its own intensity and duration. The attempt to extend pleasure and stop
pain only succeeds in destroying the sensitivity of the body and its ability to respond to
sensations. So what you are doing is very painful for the body.
If you do nothing with the sensations, you will find that they must dissolve into themselves.
That is what I mean when I speak of the ionization of thought. That is what I mean by birth
and death. There is no death for the body, only disintegration. Thought being material, all its
pursuits are material. That is why your so-called spiritual pursuits have no meaning. Don't get
me wrong, I am not against using thought to get what you need. You have no other tool at
your disposal.
So the body is interested only in its survival. All that are necessary for life are the survival and
reproductive systems. That is nature's way. Why life wants to reproduce itself is another
matter. The only way the human organism can survive and ensure its reproduction is through
thought. So thought is very important and even essential to the living organism. Thought
determines whether there is action or no action. All animals have these survival thoughts but
in the case of man the factor of recognition is introduced, complicating the whole thing
enormously. We have superimposed over the natural sensory functioning a never-ending
verbalization.
The body is not at all interested in psychological or spiritual matters. Your highly praised
spiritual experiences are of no value to the organism. In fact, they are painful to the body.
Love, compassion, understanding, bliss--all these things which religion and psychology have
placed before man are only adding to the strain of the body. All cultures, whether of the Orient

or of the Occident, have created this lopsided situation for mankind and turned man into a
neurotic individual.
Instead of being what you are, unkind, you pursue the fictitious opposite put before you,
kindness. To emphasize what we should be only causes strain, giving momentum to what we
already in fact are. In nature, we find the animals at one time violent and brutal, at others kind
and generous. For them there is no contradiction. But man is told he must be always good,
kind, loving. We emphasize only one side of reality thus distorting the whole picture. This
trying to have one without the other is creating tremendous strain, sorrow, pain and misery for
man.
Actually, you are born and die with every breath you take. That is what is meant by death and
rebirth. Your thought structure denies the reality of death. It seeks continuity at all costs. I am
only pointing out that if you go deep enough, the you disappears, the body goes through an
actual clinical death, and that, in some cases, the body can renew itself. At that point, the
entire history of the individual, located in the body's genetic structure, no longer separates
itself from life, and falls into its own rhythm. From then on it cannot separate itself from
anything. You can no longer create this division in consciousness between waking and
sleeping. So don't bother theorizing about thoughtless states. When thought is finished, you
die. Until then, all talk of thoughtless states are the silly products of thought trying to give
itself continuity by believing in and searching out a thoughtless state. If you have ever fancied
yourself to be in a thoughtless state it means that thought was there.
You need not practice any yogic techniques in order to experience these things. By taking
drugs you can have all these experiences. I am not at all advocating drugs any more than I am
advocating yoga. I am just pointing out that all experience is born out of thought and is in all
the essentials identical. If you call these yogic or drug-induced states blissful, more profound
or in any way more pleasurable than ordinary experiences, you are strengthening the ego and
fortifying the separative structure by wasting your thoughts, translating sensations into higher
or lower and pleasurable or painful. Anything you experience as energy is thought-induced
energy. It is not the energy of life.

What are you, essentially? Look, in this state there is no division. Our situation is that I cannot
transmit and you cannot receive that fact. In addition to it you have gone one step further and
created a more complex problem for yourself by placing the undivided state outside yourself
as you are. This means search. To search is willful. The search for peace is dulling the natural
peacefulness of the body. Your knowledge and search are meaningless because there is
nothing inside the division you have created around you.
It is all worthless as far as you are concerned. It is a menu without the meal. It is all a sales
pitch. It has resulted in hypocrisy and commercialism. There is something radically wrong
with it. If there is anything good it cannot produce anything bad. Obviously, religions are false-
-religion, spirituality, society, you, your property, your motives and values, the whole thing.
I am not here to teach you anything. This is not a didactic or instructional exercise. Words
only have a vague abstract meaning for you. Otherwise, they have no relevance to you at all.
You have to be saved from the very idea that you have to be saved. You must be saved from
the saviors, redeemed from the redeemers. If it is to happen it must happen now. My words
cannot penetrate the lunacy there. It is the madness of the spiritual search that makes you
unmoved and impervious to my words.
Forget the rosaries, the scriptures, the ashes on your forehead. When you see for yourself the
absurdity of your search, the whole culture is reduced to ashes inside you. Then you are out of
that. Tradition is finished for you. No more games. Vedanta means the end of knowledge. So
why write more holy books, open more schools, preserve more teachings? The burning up
inside you of everything you want is the meaning of ashes. When you know nothing, you say
a lot. When you know something, there's nothing to say.
I cannot form any image at any time. It does not matter here whether the eyes are open or
closed. The only thing that is there in that individualized consciousness is the sure reflection
of what is presented to it. You do not name it. The movement or desire to know what it is, is
simply is not there. The explanations don't mean a thing. That is why I maintain that your
natural state is one of not knowing.
We have superimposed a naming process over this natural physiological awareness, an

awareness we share, incidentally, with the other animals. Awareness and the movement or
tendency in you to bring about change in you are two different things entirely. That difference
cannot be perceived by you for there is no perception without the perceiver. Can you become
conscious of anything except through the medium of memory and thought? Memory is
knowledge. Even your feelings are memory. The stimulus and the response form one unitary
movement. They cannot be neatly separated.
In other words, you cannot even differentiate the stimulus from the response. There is no
dividing line except when thought steps in and creates one. Thought, as memory and
knowledge, has created this mechanism. The only way it can perpetuate itself is to gather
knowledge, to know more and more, to ask more and more questions. As long as you are
seeking you will be asking questions, and the questioning mechanism only adds more
momentum to the naming process.
Thought can never capture the movement of life, it is much too slow. It is like lightning and
thunder. They occur simultaneously but sound, traveling slower than light, reaches you later,
creating the illusion of two separate events. It is only the natural physiological sensations and
perceptions that can move with the flow of life. There is no question of capturing or
containing that movement. We like to use the word consciousness glibly, as if we are
intimately familiar with it. Actually, consciousness is something we will never know.
As far as I am concerned, we become conscious of something only through memory,
knowledge. Otherwise, space and the separative consciousness it creates are not there. There is
no such thing as looking at something without the interference of knowledge. To look you
need space, and thought creates that space. So space itself, as a dimension, exists only as a
creation of thought. Thought has also tried to theorize about the space it has created, inventing
the time-space continuum. Time is an independent reference or frame. There is no necessary
continuity between it and space.
Thought has also invented the opposite of time, the now, the eternal now. The present exists
only as an idea. The moment you attempt to look at the present it has already been brought
into the framework of the past. Thought will use any trick under the sun to give momentum to
its own continuity. Its essential technique is to repeat the same thing over and over again. This

gives it an illusion of permanency. This permanency is shattered the moment the falseness of
the past-present-future continuum is seen. The future can be nothing but the modified
continuity of the past.
Nature cannot be captured by thought. The important thing to see is the false separation
between you and nature. Thought has created all these divisions, making what you call
experience possible. The man who has freed himself from all divisions in consciousness has
no experiences. He does not have loving relationships, does not question anything, has no
notions about being a self-realized man and is not stuck on wanting to help somebody else.
What I am maintaining is that the whole problem has been created by culture. It is that that has
created this neurotic division in man. Somewhere along the line, man separated himself and
experienced self-consciousness, which the other animals don't have, for the first time. This has
created misery for man. That is the beginning of the end of man.
The individual who is able through luck to be free from this self-consciousness is no longer
experiencing an independent existence. He is, even to himself, like any other thing out there.
What happens in the environment repeats itself within such an individual without the
knowledge. Once thought has burnt itself out, nothing that creates division can remain there.
While thought is taking birth, the disintegration or death of thought is taking place also. That
is why it is not natural for thought to take root. Only by maintaining a divisive consciousness
in man is thought capable of denying the harmonious functioning of the body. To cast man in
religious or psychological terms is to deny the extraordinary intelligence of this wondrous
body. It is the movement of thought that is constantly taking you away from your natural state
and creating this division.
Is there any way for us to experience, much less share, reality? Forget about ultimate reality,
you have no way of experiencing the reality of anything. Experiencing reality from moment to
moment is also a thought-induced state of mind. Without a common reference point, which is
another invention of thought, how can you communicate and share? It is just not possible.
There is nothing to communicate anyhow. You want to use communication to help you out of
the mess you are in. That is your only interest. Getting out of your situation is your only aim.

Why? Why do you want to get out of your situation? Wanting to get out of situations is what
has created the problem in the first place. Wanting to free yourself from the burden is really
the problem.
I am not recommending anything. Doing or not doing lead to the same end, misery. So doing
nothing is no different from doing something. As long as you have knowledge about that
burden, which I deny exists, you will have to struggle to be free of it. You cannot do
otherwise. Anything you do is part of the mechanism of thought. Your search for happiness is
prolonging your unhappiness. What is there inside you is only the movement of knowledge
wanting to know more and more. The you, the separative structure, can continue only as long
as there is a demand to know.
The demand for freedom, whether outwardly or inwardly, has been with us for a long while.
We have been told that this demand is a sacred, noble thing. Have we again been misled? The
demand to be free is the cause of your problems. You want to see yourself as free. The one
that is saying, “You are not free,” is the same one that is telling you that there is a state of
freedom to be pursued. But the pursuit is slavery, the very denial of freedom. I do not know
anything about freedom because I do not know anything about myself, free, enslaved, or
otherwise.
Freedom and self-knowledge are linked. Since I do not know myself and have no way of
seeing myself except by the knowledge given me by my culture, the question of wanting to be
free does not arise at all. The knowledge you have about freedom denies the very possibility
of freedom. When you stop looking at yourself with the knowledge you have, the demand to
be free from that self drops away.
What is there is the constant demand to be free. Nothing else is there. How can you, and why
should you, be free from memory? Memory is absolutely essential. The problem is not having
a memory but your tendency to use memory to further your spiritual interests or as a means to
find happiness. To attempt to be free from memory is withdrawal, and withdrawal is death.
The greatest ideal, the most imposing, perfect and powerful, is, of course, God. It is an
invention of frightened minds. The human mind has many destructive inventions to its credit.

The most destructive one, and the one that has corrupted you, is the invention of God. The
history of human thinking has produced saints, teachers, gurus, but God is the most corrupt of
them all. Man has already messed up his life and religion has made it worse. It is religion that
really made a mess of man's life.
What I am trying to say is that there is no individual there at all. There is only a certain
gathering of knowledge, which is thought, but no individuality there. The knowledge you have
of things is all that you are capable of experiencing. Without knowledge, no experience of any
kind is possible. You cannot separate experience and knowledge. The self is nothing sacred. It
is the totality of your knowledge and you are, unfortunately, stuck with it. Why are you
interested in separating the knowledge you have about yourself, whatever you call yourself?
Knowledge is all that is there. Where is the self? It is an illusion.
Similarly, enlightenment has no independent existence of its own apart from your knowledge
about it. There is no enlightenment at all. The idea of illumination is tied up with change but
there is nothing to change. Change admits of time. Change always takes time. To change, to
eliminate one thing and replace it with another, takes time. What you are now and what you
ought to be are linked together by time. You are going to be enlightened tomorrow.
Let us take this as an example. You want to be enlightened. You want to be selfless. You are
this, you want to be that. The gap between the two is filled with time. Your enlightenment or
selflessness is always tomorrow, not now. So time is essential and time is thought. Your
thought structure, which is you, can't conceive of the possibility of anything happening except
in time. This escapist logic is also applied by everyone to spiritual matters, only the time
frame is larger. It happens in heaven or perhaps in a future life, at any rate later. And just as
there is no tomorrow in these matters, so its reference point, the present, does not exist. Where
does it not exist? In thought, which is the past. There is no question of enlightenment now
because there is no now, only the projection of the past.
What I am saying is valid and true for me, that is all. If I suggest anything, directly or
indirectly, you will turn it into another method or technique. I would be falsifying myself if I
were to make any such suggestion. If anyone says there is a way out he is not an honest

fellow. He is doing it for his own self-aggrandizement, you may be sure. He simply wants to
market a product and hopes to convince you that it is superior to other products on the market.
If another man comes along and says that there is no way out, you make of that another
method.
You can't blast what I am saying as long as you are relying upon what someone has said
before. The saint is a technocrat. That is what most people are. Don't listen to me, it will create
an unnecessary disturbance in you. It will only intensify the neurotic situation you are already
caught in. Having taken for granted the validity of all this holy stuff, having never questioned,
much less broken away from it, you not only have learned how to live with it but also how to
capitalize on it. It is a matter of profiteering, nothing more.
Anything I do to help would only add to your misery, that is all. By continuing to listen to me
you merely heap one more misery upon those you already have. In that sense, this discussion
we are having is doing you no good whatever. You don't seem to realize that you are playing
with fire here. If you really want freedom here and now you can have it.
You see, you are anger, selfishness and all these things. If they go, you go. There is a physical
going, not in the abstract but actual, physical death. It can happen now, you simply don't want
it. You would not touch it with a ten-foot pole. If anger and selfishness, which is you, go,
liberation is now, not tomorrow. Your own anger will burn you, not the fire. The religious
man has invented selflessness. If that selflessness goes, you go, that is all.
So freeing yourself from any one of these things implies that you, as you know and experience
yourself, are coming to an end now. Please, in your interest and out of compassion, I am
telling you that this is not what you want. This is not a thing you can make happen. It is not in
your hands at all. It hits whomsoever it chooses. You are out of the picture altogether.
You have to actually touch life at a point where nobody has touched it before. Nobody can
teach you that. As long as you continue to repeat what others have said before, you are lost
and nothing good can come of it. Listening to and believing what others have said is not the
way to find out for yourself and there is no other way.
You may very well ask why the hell I am talking. I emphatically assure you that, in my case, it
is not at all in the nature of self-fulfillment. My motive for talking is quite different from what

you think it is. It is not that I am eager to help you understand or that I feel that I must help
you, not at all. My motive is direct and temporary. You arrive seeking understanding, while I
am only interested in making it crystal clear that there is nothing to understand.
As long as you want to understand, so long there will be this awkward relationship between
two individuals. I am always emphasizing that somehow the truth has to dawn upon you that
there is nothing to understand. As long as you think, accept and believe that there is something
to understand, and make that understanding a goal to be placed before you, demanding search
and struggle, you are lost and will live in misery. The search is invalid because it is based
upon questions which in turn are based upon false knowledge. Your knowledge has not freed
you from your problems.
So what is your goal? You must be very clear about it, otherwise there is no point in
proceeding. It becomes a game, a meaningless ritual. What do you want to get? There is
always somebody to help you get what you want for a price. You have foolishly divided life
into higher and lower goals, into material and spiritual paths. In either case, great struggle,
pain and effort is involved. I say, on the other hand, that there are no spiritual goals at all.
They are simply the extension of material goals to what you imagine to be a higher, loftier
plane.
You mistakenly believe that by pursuing the spiritual goal you will somehow miraculously
make your material goals simple and manageable. Such pursuits are in actuality not possible.
You may think that only inferior persons pursue material goals, that material achievements are
boring. But, in fact, the so-called spiritual goals you have put before yourself are exactly the
same. You are your search.
The past will always be there as long as you want something. Even if you attempt to suppress
your wants, the past has to come to your help and tell you how to suppress your wants. There
is no such differentiation of wants. They are all exactly the same. When wanting ceases even
for a moment thought is absent and you are left with the simple matter of taking care of the
bodily needs--food, clothes and shelter.
If you go on trying to suppress the past, trying to live in what you call the present, you will

drive yourself crazy. You are trying to control something over which you have no control. It is
just not possible to control thought without becoming neurotic, for it is not just your personal,
petty little past that is in the way but the entire past of mankind, the entire memory of every
human being, every form of life and every form of existence. It is not such a simple, easy
thing to do.
If you try to control the natural flow of the river through all these artificial means, building a
dam, so to speak, you will inundate and destroy the whole thing. That is why you find
thoughts welling up inside you despite your efforts to control, observe and be aware of them.
Once this is understood then you are never concerned whether thoughts are there or not.
When there is an actual need for thought to function, it is there. When there is no need for
thought to function, it is not there. You don't even know and have no way of finding out
whether you are thinking or not. Your constant utilization of thought to give continuity to your
separative self is you. There is nothing there inside you other than that.
What you call the self is nothing other than the continuity of thought. If that artificial
continuity is not there, neither are you. The self wants only to function on a different, higher
level and not to come to an end. You want to be transformed, to become something else, while
continuing. The only way the self can do that is to add more and more experiences to those it
has already accumulated.
Whether you want something material or simple peace of mind, it makes no difference. As
long as you are searching for peace of mind, you will have a tormented mind. If you try not to
search or if you continue to search you will remain the same. You have to stop. You don't stop
searching because such an act would be the end of you.
You are lost in a jungle and you have no way of finding your way out. Night is fast
approaching. The wild animals are there including the cobras and still you are lost. What do
you do in such a situation? You just stop. You don't move. As long as there is that hope that
you can somehow or the other get out of the jungle, so long will you continue what you are
doing, searching, and so long you feel lost. You are lost only because you are searching. You
have no way of finding your way out of the jungle.
You still expect something to happen. That expectation is part of the problem. Your

expectations are part of your desire to change everything. Nothing needs changing. You must
accept life as it is. You may as well find out if it is possible to be at peace now. You want so
many things and I am not in a position to help you get any of them. You are not clear what
you really want. When that which you want is fully recognized then you find out how to get it
and either you get it or you don't, that's all. Don't bother separating your goals into the low and
the lofty. You have been doing that all your life and have not succeeded.
When once you have understood that there is nothing to understand, what is there to
communicate? Communication is just not necessary. Your desire to communicate is part of
your general strategy of achievement. Veiled behind that desire for communication is the
dependency upon some outside power to solve your problems for you. Except for the quite
natural need for practical communication necessary to function in this world, your interest in
communication is really an expression of your feelings of helplessness and your hope for the
support of some outside agency.
Your helplessness persists because of your dependency upon some outside agency. When that
dependency, fictitious or not, is not there then the feelings of helplessness and the desire to
communicate in the abstract are not there. If the one goes, the other must go also. Your
situation and prospects only seem hopeless because you have ideas of hope. There is bound to
be helplessness and overwhelming frustration as long as you exist in relationship with the
hope for fulfillment because there is no fulfillment at all. This is the source of your dilemma.
The future is created by hope. That is the only future that exists. The hope of achieving your
goal, the hope of attaining enlightenment, the hope of somehow getting off the merry-go-
round--that is the future. The point from which you project yourself into the future appears to
you to be the present, the now, but this is mistaken. There is only the past in operation and that
movement creates the illusion of present and future. You may find what I am saying here
logical or illogical and you may accept or reject it. But it will, in any case, be the past that is
doing so for that is all that is in operation within you.
It is the past that has projected these goals--God, enlightenment, peace of mind, whatever--and
has placed them in the future out of reach. There is only the past. You have been told by holy

men who talk of enlightenment and such nonsense that the past has got to come to a stop
before you are free to operate in the present and so realize your potential or future
possibilities. This I deny.
First of all, why should you be interested in attempting to stop the past from interfering with
the present? Be very clear that this idea that the past must die, that time must have an end, has
been put into you by those self-appointed guardians of your so-called soul--the priests, holy
men and saviors of mankind. It is not yours at all. You need to be very clear also about the
implications of ending the influence of the past. It is really a dangerous, calamitous thing.
In your search to find the end of time, the past, you must use the past, so you only succeed in
perpetuating the past. This is a fact, like it or not. Anything you do--having kinder thoughts,
behaving selflessly, approaching life negatively rather than positively, listening to holy men,
listening to me--is only adding momentum to the past. All the techniques and methods of
achievement at your disposal are from the past and, therefore, useless. Luckily, there is
absolutely nothing to be achieved.
Your actual approach to happiness is grounded in self-interest and naiveté. To demand the
cessation of the continuity of the movement of the past is ridiculous and unfounded. We have
been brainwashed that if we free ourselves from the past everything will be hunky-dory, full
of lightness and sweetness. It is all romantic hogwash--sheer unadulterated fantasy and
nothing more.
All your actions are from the past and anything you do only strengthens the hold of pleasure
and pain upon you. Ultimately, it is all pain and no pleasure. I can say that with certainty but
you are still cocksure that there is a timeless state, a way out. It is therefore impossible for us
to communicate. What I am saying will, if really listened to, put an end to you as you know
and experience yourself. You are not listening to me at all. Your so-called listening is all in
the past. The constant interpretation by the past of what is being said prevents you from
listening to what is being said.
All I can guarantee you is that as long as you are searching for happiness you will remain
unhappy. This is a fact. Society is so organized and complex that you have no other way of
surviving except to accept the way of life around you along with the limitations it places upon

all of us. We must all accept the reality of society whether we like it or not. All your
relationships, knowledge and experiences, all your emotions and feelings, all that romantic
stuff, belongs entirely to society, not to you.
You are not an individual at all. Only when you are free from what every man and woman has
thought and felt before you will you become an individual. Such an individual will not burn
books that men have made with great care. He would not be a rebel. All the accumulated
knowledge, experience and suffering of mankind is inside of you. You must build a huge
bonfire within you. Then you will become an individual. There is no other way.
You want to change yourself into something and at the same time find you cannot change at
all. This change you talk of is really just more romantic, fancy stuff for you. You never
change, only think about changing. As long as you want to change for some reason or the
other so long will you insist upon changing the whole world. You want a different world so
that you can be happy in it. That is your only interest. You can talk of mankind--concern for
mankind, compassion for mankind--but it is all bullshit.
Since you are determined to bring about change, a notion put into you by your culture, you
remain discontent and want the world to be different. When your inner demand to be
something different from what in fact you are comes to an end then the neurotic demand to
change your society ceases. Then you cannot be in conflict with society. You are in perfect
harmony with society, including its brutalities and miseries. All your attempts to change this
brutal society only add momentum to it. This is not to say that the free individual is indifferent
to society, on the contrary. In any case, it is you who are indifferent right now. You only talk
and whine, meanwhile doing nothing. Unless you are at peace with yourself there cannot be
peace around the world. When you are at peace with yourself that is the end of the story.
You are trying to establish relationships with people around you, with society, with the whole
world. For some reason or other, the actual relationships are very ugly and horrible. Have you
noticed that as long as our relationships can be directed to serve personal happiness there is no
conflict? Every person is in the same situation. Relationships are harmonious as long as they
serve one's ideas of happiness. Because you cannot face the dynamism of relationships you

invent sentiments, romance and dramatic emotions to give them continuity. Therefore, you are
always in conflict.
Understanding yourself is one of the greatest jokes perpetrated on the gullible and credulous
people everywhere, not only by the purveyors of ancient wisdom, the holy men, but also by
the modern scientists. The psychologists love to talk about self-knowledge, self-actualization,
living from moment to moment and such rot. These absurd ideas are thrown at us as if they are
something new.
I have been everywhere in the world meeting and talking with people. People are exactly the
same the world over. The questions never vary but I am never bored with it. How can I be
bored? If I were some sort of fool getting some sort of kick out of this, looking for new, better
and different questions then there would be a possibility of getting bored. But I am not looking
for anything so boredom is impossible.
You are alive because your parents had sex, period. Don't look for a meaning to life. There
may not be any meaning at all. It may have its own meaning that you can never know.
Obviously, life has no meaning for you, otherwise you would not be here asking these
questions. Everything you do seems absolutely meaningless. That is the fact. Don't bother
about others. The whole world is an extension of you. The way you are thinking, feeling and
experiencing is exactly the same way everyone else in this world is thinking, feeling and
experiencing.
The goal may be different but the mechanism and instrument you are using to achieve your
particular goal is not a whit different from that used by others to achieve theirs. Why should
there be any meaning in living? The moment a baby arrives in the world it is interested in one
thing, survival. The instinct in the baby to feed itself, to survive and to reproduce itself, seems
to be the way of life. It is life expressing itself, that is all. You needn't impose a meaning upon
it.
Instead of living you are obsessed with the question, “How am I to live?” That dilemma is put
into us by our culture and is the one responsible for many of our problems. Because you are

dead, not living what we call life, you are concerned with how to live. If you succeed in
getting rid of the idea of somehow living a better, nobler and more meaningful life you will
replace that belief with another. You must face the fact that you know nothing about life or the
living of it.
I am just singing my song then I go. If someone listens to me or not it is not my concern. If
nobody comes and talks it is alright with me. Believe me, my talking is only incidental. It is
not aimed at liberating anyone. If you are not here it's all the same for me. I am not selling
anything. I am simply pointing out that at the rate at which we are going the whole genetic
engineering technology will end up in the hands of the political system to be used for the
complete control and subjugation of man.
This natural state cannot be used to further anyone's crusade nor am I interested in setting
myself up as an archetype or prophet for mankind. I am not interested in satisfying the
curiosity of anybody. The scientists are making tremendous progress in the fields of
microbiology and glandular and brain physiology. They will soon have enough sophistication
in these areas to understand the physiological mutation that took place within me. I personally
cannot make any definite statement except to say that the whole mechanism is an automatic
thing. The interference of thought is not there anymore.
Thought is functional in value, nothing more. It operates temporarily here when there is a
demand from the environment but cannot act with regard to becoming something or to
changing things there. That is energy, an energy that can make functioning in this world
sanely and intelligently an easy affair. Now you are wasting that energy by attempting to be
something other than what you, in fact, are. Then you will have a certainty which cannot be
transmitted by me or by anybody.
I have discovered, for myself and by myself, that what we have been told about freedom,
enlightenment and God is false. No power in the world can touch this. This does not make me
superior, nothing of the sort. To feel superior or inferior you must separate yourself from the
world. I do not look upon the world as a separate thing, as you do. The knowledge I have
about the world, whether within or without, comes into operation only when there is a demand

for it. Otherwise, I simply don't know.
Your natural state is one of not knowing. The knowledge that you are this, that you are that,
that you are happy, that you are unhappy, that you are a realized man, that you are not a
realized man, is completely absent here. We have no way of knowing if we are free. Nothing
tells me that I am free. In your case, the naming process, the wanting something, the
questioning, goes on and on no matter what.
Here thought functions only from a stimulus from the outside. Even then, the response of
knowledge is instantaneous and I am back again like a big question mark. Your constant
demand to experience the same thing over and over again results in compulsive, repetitive
thinking. I don't see any need or reason for the repetitive process to go on and on.
In my case, there is no one separate from this functioning, no one who can step back and say,
“This is reality.” There is no such thing as reality at all. Reality is imposed upon us by culture,
society and education. Don't get me wrong, thought has a functional value. If we don't accept
the world as it is imposed on us we will end up in the loony bin. I have to accept it as a
relative fact. Otherwise, there is no way of experiencing the reality of anything.
It is thought that has created the reality of your body, of your living, of your sleep, and of all
your perceptions. You experience this reality through knowledge. Otherwise, there is no way
of your knowing for yourself that you have a body, that you are alive, that you are awake. All
that is knowledge. The reality of anything is something which cannot be experienced by
anybody.
The military wars out there are the extension of what is going on all the time inside you. Why
is there a war waging inside you? Because you search for peace. The instrument you are using
in your attempt to be at peace with yourself is war. There is already peace in man. You need
not search. The living organism is functioning in an extraordinarily peaceful way.
Man's search for truth is born out of this same search for peace. It only ends up disturbing and
violating the peace that is already there in the body. So what we are left with is the war within
and the war without. It's an extension of the same thing. Our search in this world for peace,
being based upon warfare, will lead only to war, towards damnation. Humanity has polluted,

destroyed and killed off everything, all on account of his wanting to be at the center of the
universe, of all creation.
You are interested in the self, not I. Whatever it is, it is the most important thing for man as
long as he is alive. If you don't think it never occurs to you that you are alive or dead. The
very birth of thought creates fear and it is out of fear that all experience springs. Both inner
and outer worlds proceed from a point of thought. Everything you experience is born out of
thought.
So everything you experience or can experience is an illusion. The self-absorption in thought
creates a self-centeredness in man--that is all that is there. All relationships based upon that
will inevitably create misery for man. These are bogus relationships. As far as you are
concerned, there is no such thing as a relationship. And yet, society demands not just
relationships but permanent relationships.
It is mortality that creates immortality. It is the known that creates the unknown. It is time that
has created the timeless. It is thought that created the thoughtless. Just as we all breathe from a
common fund of air we appropriate and use thoughts to function in this world. Man's
insistence that thought must be continuous denies the nature of thought, which is short-lived.
Thought has created for itself a separate destiny. It has been very successful in creating for
itself a separate parallel existence. By positing the unknown, the beyond, the immortal, it has
created for itself a way to continue on.
There is no timeless, only time. When thought creates time, a space is created there. So
thought is space as well. Thought also creates matter; no thought no matter. Thought is a
manifestation or expression of life and to make of it a separate thing, impute to it a life of its
own and then allow it to create a future for its own unobstructed continuity, is man's tragedy.
I don't think that this kind of life exists anywhere else on any other planet. I am not saying that
there may not be life in other worlds only that it is not like our existence here. Your
ruminations about other forms of life and other worlds is just a wish for unlimited extension
into the future and far-off places. Thought is trying to give itself continuity and speculating

about the future and undiscovered worlds is a convenient way to do it.
In order to concentrate or focus on one thing you must block out the others. By concentrating
upon what you take to be nothing you withdraw and separate yourself from the natural flow of
life through and around you. You are part of a generalized magnetic field and what separates
you from others is thought. You are concerned only with your happiness and unhappiness, the
video set you are watching. You view and experience things from a different viewpoint than
others, that's all. You think that you are having a subjective experience of an objective thing.
There is nothing there, only your relative, experiential data, your truth. There is no such thing
as objective truth at all. There is nothing which exists outside or independent of our minds.
That part of culture that promises you peace, bliss, heaven and selflessness is the problem. To
separate the rest of culture--how you entertain yourself, how you eat, your work habits and
language--from this counter-reality created by culture is a mistake. The so-called savages are
functioning in exactly the same way we are functioning today. Basically, there is no
difference. In either the primitive or modern cultures there is no peace.
The idea that there is peace somewhere else, sometime in the future, is causing the problem.
All these religious experiences like compassion, bliss and love are part of the craving for a
non-existent peace which is destructive to the natural peace already there. Whatever is
happening at the moment is all that there is for me. All your yesterdays, all your knowledge
and your very sense of self are dead things of the past. These memories have a great deal of
emotional content for you but not for me. I am only interested in what is actually happening
now, not tomorrow or yesterday.
I have no particular message for mankind nor do I have any of the missionary zeal in me. I am
not a savior of mankind or any such thing. People come here out of their own free will and
volition because they have heard of me or out of sheer curiosity, it doesn't matter. A person
may come here out of any one of a number of reasons. He finds me somehow different, a rare
bird, and cannot figure me out or fit me into any framework he knows. He tells his friends and
soon they arrive at the door. I can't tell them to get lost. I invite them in knowing very well
that there is nothing I can do for them. What can I do for you? “Come in, sit down, make

yourself comfortable,” is all I can say.
Whatever happens, it changes the movement and demands your complete attention.
Everything happening at that moment demands your complete and total attention. In that state
there are no longer two things; lover and beloved, pursuer and pursued. What you call a
beautiful woman, which is an idea, gives way to something else.
Romanticism is not my reality. Nothing has ever or will ever sweep me off my feet. It is not
that I am the opposite of that, a man of reason. It is the element of reason in me that revolted
against itself. You may infer a rational meaning in what I say or do but it is your doing not
mine. I am not interested in anyone's search for happiness, romance or escape.
There is no experience here. So how can there be these dramatic, crazy experiences? I have no
way of separating myself from events. The event and I are one and the same. I have no
teaching. There is nothing to preserve. Teaching implies something that can be used to bring
about change. Sorry, there is no teaching here, just disjointed, disconnected sentences. What is
there is only your interpretation, nothing else. For this reason there is not now nor will there
ever be any kind of copyright for whatever I am saying. I have no claims.
My mother died when I was seven days old. My maternal grandparents took care of me. My
grandfather was a Theosophist. He was a wealthy man and instilled a strong religious
atmosphere around the house. So in that sense, J. Krishnamurti was also part of my
background. They had his pictures, I could not avoid him. I did not go to him in search of
anything. He was just part of my background. It would have been remarkable had I never gone
to see him. My problem was to free myself from the whole background that was strangling
me, that's all.
It is like the man who is riding a tiger and is thrown off. The tiger, maintaining its own
momentum, continues on. It's gone. That's all there is to it. You cannot do anything with the
tiger anymore. You never again have the fear of encountering or riding the tiger. It is finished.
It has gone. So I think there is little point in my doing anything in society. It has its own
momentum. Anything you try to do will engulf you and add to that momentum. Who has
given the mandate to all these people to save mankind?

If the entire collective knowledge and experience of man is thrown out, what is left is a
primordial and primeval state, without the primitiveness. That kind of individual is of no use
to society at all. Like a shady tree, this individual may provide shade but can never be
conscious of his doing so. If you sit under the tree a coconut may fall on your head. There is a
danger involved. For this reason, society may feel threatened by this individual. This society,
structured the way it is, can make no use of such a person.
When once the organism has freed itself from the stranglehold of thought, anything you do to
try to bring about peace and harmony there only creates disharmony and violence. It is like
using war to create peace in a peaceful world. When the search itself comes to an end it comes
to an end with a big bang, as it were. Then peace is something that cannot be practiced or
taught.
If you drop the fictitious models of the saint and holy man you are left with the natural
biological arrangement. The separative structure of thought which was introduced into the
consciousness of man long ago has created the violent world and will probably push man and
the rest of life on this planet to the brink of extinction. But biologically, each cell has the
wisdom to avoid models and promises and simply, out of sheer survival motives, cooperates
with the cell next to it. Out of the terror of annihilation, man, like the cells of his body, will
learn to cooperate, but not out of love or compassion.
The control of the body through thought has destroyed the possibility of growing into
complete humans. The extraordinary intelligence of the biological organism is all that is
necessary for good living but we are all the time interfering with its natural operation through
the medium of thought. Your natural bodily computer is already programmed. You don't have
to do a thing. Somehow, you see, something hits you like lightning and burns the whole thing
there. This man then is neither sinner nor saint. He is far outside the framework of society.
For forty-nine years I searched for a man called U.G. The whole culture put me on the wrong
track. I tried the dead gurus as well as the living ones. Eventually I realized that the search was
useless, that the enemy was me. Now the entire knowledge and the search it engendered has
been thrown out of my system completely. The demand to change one's self and the demand

to change the world go out of the system together. I am neither antisocial nor thankful to
society. I don't feel any bounden duty to play any part or to help my fellow men. All this kind
of thing is balderdash.
The man who is trying to free himself from the world or from what he calls evil is actually the
most egotistical of men. The shattering perception that finally dawns on you is that there is no
such thing as ego at all. This insight blows everything apart with a tremendous force when it
hits you. It is not an experience that can be shared with another. It is not an experience at all. It
is a calamity in which both experience and the experiencer come to an end. A man in such a
state does not escape reality and has no romantic tendencies. He harbors no humanistic
notions about saving the world for he knows that anything that is done to save it only adds
momentum to it. He knows that there is nothing you can do.
Your actions and the consequences of those actions form one single event. It is the logical,
cause and effect thinking that imposes a sequence to events. The sudden evidence of light and
the throwing of the light switch which preceded it are actually one thing, not two. They appear
to you as two or more events only because time has created a space between. But time and
space, apart from the ideas of time and space, do not exist at all.
Creation and destruction are going on simultaneously. The birth and death of thought happen
simultaneously. That is why I insist that there is no such thing as death at all. Even the body
does not die. It can change form but does not cease altogether. Because death really does not
exist it is impossible for you to experience it. What you do experience is the void or emptiness
you feel upon the disappearance of someone's body. Death can never be experienced and
neither can birth for that matter. In your natural state, where the body is allowed to function
without the interference of thought, birth and death are going on all the time.
There is no person and no space within to create a self. What is left after the continuity of
thought is blown away is one disjointed and independent series of interactions. What happens
in the environment around me happens in here. There is no division. When the armor you are
wearing around you is stripped away, you find an extraordinary sensitivity of the senses that
responds to the phases of the moon, the passage of the seasons and the movements of the other
planets. There is simply no isolated, separate existence of its own here, only the throb of life.

In this death state, the ordinary breath stops entirely and the body is able to breathe through
other physiological means. Among the many doctors I have discussed this strange
phenomenon with only one expert in childbirth gave me a sort of explanation. He says that
newborn babies have a similar way of breathing. This death process is yoga, not the hundreds
of postures and breathing exercises. When the thought process stops splitting itself in two, the
body goes through a clinical death. First, the death must take place then yoga begins.
Yoga is actually the body's skill in bringing itself back from the state of clinical death. This
yoga of renewal is an extraordinary thing. If you observe a newborn baby you will have
observed the way it moves and articulates its whole body all in a natural rhythm. After the
breath and heartbeat come to an almost complete stop somehow the body begins to come
back. The corpse-like appearance of the body--the stiffness, coldness and ash covering--begins
to disappear, the body warms up and begins to move and the metabolism including the pulse
picks up.
So it is much more like the Tai Chi than classical yoga postures. The movements and postures
that the body performs when breaking down the stiffness left over from the death process are
beautiful, graceful movements, like those of a newborn baby. Yogis now prescribe savasana,
the corpse posture, after the performance of any moving postures. This is backwards. You
start yoga as a dead stiff body then the body is renewed through natural rhythmic movements.
This whole process of dying and being renewed, although it happens to me daily and without
my volition, remains very intriguing to me. It just happens out of nowhere. Even the thought
of the self or ego has been annihilated. Still, there is something there experiencing this death,
otherwise I would not be able to describe it here.
With the absence of any demand to repeat or use this death process the senses are given a field
day. The breath, no longer under the domination of the separative thought structure, can
respond fully to the physical environment. Upon seeing a beautiful mountain or sunset, the
breath is suddenly drawn out of you then back in, all in a natural rhythm. This is where the
expression, breathtaking beauty, probably comes from.
The only way you become conscious of things happening around you is through subtle

changes in breathing patterns. It is a tremendous mechanism and in it there are no persons, no
things. Sometimes you are just sitting there and you suddenly feel a shortness of breath,
almost a gasping for air. It is something like a second wind. But even this passes and finally
breathing stops altogether and the body bypasses the lungs, breathing with the pulse of the
body alone.
One paper stresses the difference in the way my thymus gland functions. But there are other
glands that are affected also--the pineal, the pituitary and others. The pineal gland, which
controls the whole movement, breathing and coordination of the body, is greatly affected.
When the separative thought structure dies these glands and nerve plexuses take over the
functioning of the organism.
It is a painful process, for the hold of thought over the glands and plexuses is strong and has to
be burnt off. This can be experienced by an individual. The burning or ionization needs energy
and space to take place. For this reason, the limits of the body are reached, with energy lashing
out in all directions. The body's containment of that energy in its limited form brings pain
even though there is no experiencer of pain there. This painful death process is something
nobody wants, not even the most ardent religious practitioners and yogis.
It is not the result of will but of a fortuitous concourse of atoms. How all this fits into your
scientific structure, I do not know. Scientists doing work in this field are interested in these
changes if they are described in physiological rather than mystical terms. These scientists
envisage this kind of man as representing the end product of biological evolution, not the
science-fiction superman or super spiritual beings. Nature is only interested in creating an
organism that can respond fully and intelligently to stimuli and reproduce itself, that's all. This
body is capable of extraordinary perceptions and sensations. It is a marvel.
Scientists in the field of evolution now think that the present breed of humans we have on this
planet probably evolved out of a degenerated species. The mutation that carried on the self-
consciousness must have taken place in a degenerate species. That is why we have messed
everything up. It is anybody's guess as to whether anyone can change the whole thing. I think
that human consciousness in its totality is a tremendously powerful thing with a strong
momentum of its own. The whole of human consciousness is a very formidable thing.

The scientific procedure, not the self, gives you a reference point so that you may measure the
truth or falseness of what I am saying. Look, I tried everything to find an answer to my
burning obsession, “Is there such a thing as enlightenment at all or have we all been fooled by
abstractions?” The utter frustration and complete failure to answer that question created an
intensity.
The first part of my life was spent in India around yogis, holy men, sages; in short, all the
associations that could benefit a person interested in spiritual matters. I found out for myself
that it was all bogus. There was nothing to it at all. Totally disillusioned with the whole
religious traditions of both the East and the West, I plunged myself into modern psychology,
science and whatever the material world could give me.
I found out for myself that the whole idea of spirit or psyche was false. When I experimented
with and studied the material world, I was surprised to find that there was no such thing as
matter at all. Denying the spiritual and material basis of things, I was left with nowhere to
turn. I began drifting on my own, unable to find an answer from any source.
Then one day the futility of what I was doing dawned upon me and the question which had
obsessed me for almost my entire life got burnt then disappeared. After that there were no
more questions. The thirst burned itself out without ever satisfying itself. Not answers but the
ending of questions is the important thing.
Even though everything got burnt there, still embers remain to express themselves in a natural
rhythm. What impact this expression may have on the society around me is not my concern.
Chapter Four: 1985-1990 -- India, Switzerland, Australia, Netherlands & U.K.
There is no self, there is no I, there is no spirit, there is no soul and there is no mind. That
knocks off the whole list and you have no way of finding out what you are left with. You may
very well ask me the question, “Why do you go on telling people about the way you are
functioning?” It is only to emphasize that we have been for centuries using some instrument,
that is, thinking or mind or whatever you want to call it to free ourselves from the whole of
what you call the self and all kinds of things. That is what the whole quest of spirit is all about.

But once it dawns on you that there is nothing to be free from then these questions don't arise
at all. How that dawned on me I have no way of finding out for myself.
The answers I give are only to emphasize that what we are left with is the functioning of the
living organism. How it is functioning is all that I am trying to put across, emphasize and
overemphasize all the time. My interest is to somehow make you see that the whole attempt
on your part to understand what you are left with is a lost battle. Even that statement cannot be
experienced by what is left there. When once the whole thing is flushed out of your system,
the statement, "We are left with only the physical body and the universe”--that statement also
cannot stand any more.
The more the questions you throw at me the more there is a need to emphasize the physical
aspect of our existence, namely, that there is nothing to what we have been made to believe.
All our problems have arisen because of our acceptance that it is possible for us to understand
the reality of the world or the reality of our existence. What I am saying is that you have no
way of experiencing anything that you do not know. So anything that you experience through
the help of your knowledge is fruitless. It is a lost battle.
That is the reason why I say that the instrument which we are using to understand the reality
of our existence and the reality of the world around us is not part of this mechanism that is
there. That is the reason why I say thoughts are not self-generated and are not spontaneous.
There are no thoughts there even now. If you want to find out whether there is any such thing
as thought, the very question which we are posing to ourselves, namely, "Is there a thought?,"
is born out of the assumption that there is a thought there. But what you will find there is all
about thought and not thought. All about thought is what is put in there by the culture. That is
put in by the people who are telling us that it is very essential for you to free yourself from
whatever you are trying to free yourself from through that instrument.
My interest is to emphasize that that is not the instrument and there is no other instrument.
And when once this hits you, dawns upon you, that thought is not the instrument and that there
is no other instrument, then there is no need for you to find out if any other instrument is
necessary. There is no need for any other instrument. This very same structure that we are
using, the instrument which we are using, has in a very ingenious way invented all kinds of

things like intuition, right insight, right this, that and the other. And to say that through this
very insight we have come to understand something is the stumbling block. All insights
however extraordinary they may be are worthless because it is thought that has created what
we call insight and through that it is maintaining its continuity and status quo.
I question consciousness because what we call consciousness is memory. You become
conscious of something through the help of the knowledge you have and that knowledge is
locked up in the memory. So the whole talk of the subconscious, unconscious, levels of
consciousness and all that is the ingenious invention of the thinking mechanism. Through this
cleverness, inventiveness, it maintains its continuity.
Awareness has no meaning to me because awareness is not an instrument to be used to
understand anything, much less to bring about a change there. First of all, there is nothing
there to be changed. Since there is nothing there to be changed, whether you use awareness or
any other instrument to bring about a change is irrelevant. Awareness can never be separated
from the activity of the brain. That is the reason why I always describe what is happening here
in physical terms.
What is there is only the reflection of this object on the retina. Even this statement cannot be
experienced by me because the stimulus and response are one unitary movement. The moment
you say there is awareness, there is already a division. That is the only way you can continue,
otherwise you are coming to an end. The you as you know yourself, the you as you experience
yourself--that you is the identity there. Through the constant demand for using memory it
maintains its continuity. If that you is not there you don't know what will happen.
Thinking cannot help us to solve living problems. There is no way we can use that to solve
human problems. That is why it has failed to solve our problems. It has not touched anything
there. All our beliefs have not touched anything there. We don't know what we would do in a
given situation. You can say that you are going to be a nonviolent man but what you would do
in a given situation you would never know. The demand to be prepared for all future actions
and situations is the cause of our problems. Every situation is so different and our
preparedness to meet that situation with this knowledge we have of answering and dealing

with such situations cannot help us.
It is not a challenge. The inadequacy of using what you have, preparing yourself, and the
question of how to deal with the situation are absent here. It ceases to be a challenge then.
That is why I say there are no problems there. We create the problems. If the solutions we are
offered by those people are really not the solutions you really don't have a problem. But the
fact of the matter is if you do not have a problem you create a problem. You cannot live
without problems.
This separateness from the totality of things around us and the idea that the whole thing is
created for our benefit and that we are created for a grander and nobler purpose than all the
other species on this planet are the causes of this destruction. This powerful use of thought is
what is destructive. Thought is a self-protective mechanism, so anything that is born out of
thought is destructive. Whether it is religious thought or scientific thought or political thought,
all of them are destructive. But we are not ready to accept that it is thought that is our enemy.
We don't know how to function in this world without the use of thought. You can invent all
kinds of things and try to free yourself from this stranglehold of thought but there is no way
we can accept the fact that that is not the instrument to help us to function sanely and
intelligently in this world.
Thought is a self-perpetuating mechanism. It controls, molds, shapes our ideas and actions.
Idea and action, they are one and the same. All our actions are born out of ideas. Our ideas are
thoughts passed on to us from generation to generation. Thought is not the instrument to help
us to live in harmony with the life around us. That is why you create all these ecological
problems, problems of pollution and the problem of possibly destroying ourselves with the
most destructive weapons that we have invented. So, there is no way out. You may say that I
am a pessimist, that I am a cynic or that I am this, that and the other. But I hope one day we
will realize that the mistakes we have made will destroy everything. The planet is not in
danger. We are in danger.
Because you know in a way that what you know of yourself is coming to an end there. You
have been through so many experiences. You have achieved so many things. You have
attained and accomplished so many things. "Is all that coming to an end, leaving behind

nothing?" So naturally we create something beyond. You are not separate from that illusion.
You are the illusion. If one illusion goes it is always replaced with another illusion. Why?
Because the ending of the illusion is the ending of you. That is the death. The ending of belief
is the ending of the you that is there.
We think we know a lot more than this body. We think that we know what is good for that
body and that is why we are creating problems for it. It knows what it wants to know. It
doesn't want to learn anything from us. If we understand this simple relationship that thought
and the body have then probably we will allow the body to function and use thought only for
functional purposes. Thought is functional in value and it cannot help us to achieve any of the
goals we have placed before us or what the culture has placed before us.
Your value system is the one that is responsible for the human malady, human tragedy,
forcing everybody to fit into that model. You may not agree with me, but when we talk about
the quest for happiness it is no different from any other sensual activity. As a matter of fact, all
experiences, however extraordinary they may be, are in the area of sensuality. That is one
major problem that we are facing today.
Somewhere along the line the human species experienced this self-consciousness for the first
time and it separated the human species from the rest of the species on this planet. I don't even
know if there is any such thing as evolution but we are made to believe that there is such a
thing. And it was at that time perhaps that thought took its birth. But thought, in its birth, in its
origin, in its content, in its expression, and in its action is very fascist.
When I use the word fascist I use it not in the political sense but to mean that thought controls
and shapes our thinking and our actions. So it is a very protective mechanism. It has no doubt
helped us to be what we are today. It has helped us to create our high-tech and technology. It
has made our life very comfortable. It has also made it possible for us to discover the laws of
nature. But thought is a very protective mechanism and is interested in its own survival. At the
same time, thought is opposed fundamentally to the functioning of this living organism.
We are made to believe that there is such a thing as mind but there is no such thing as your
mind or my mind. Society or culture or whatever you want to call it has created us solely and
wholly for the purpose of maintaining its own continuity and status quo. At the same time, it

has also created the idea that there is such a thing as the individual. But actually, there is a
conflict between the two--the idea of the individual and the impossibility of functioning as an
individual separate and distinct from the totality of man's thoughts and experiences.
Here at this point I would like to emphasize that thoughts are not self-generated and
spontaneous. I would go one step further and ask, "Is there any such a thing as thought?" The
very question arises because we assume that there is such a thing as thought and that we can
separate ourselves from thought and look at it. But when we look at what we call thought,
what we see is about thought and not thought itself. “What is thought?" The question arises
only because of the assumption that there is such a thing as thought.
We use what we call thought to achieve our spiritual or material goals. We may consider the
spiritual goals as higher. The culture in which we are functioning places spiritual goals on a
higher level than the materialistic goals. But the instrument which we are using is matter
which is thought. Thought to me is matter. Therefore, all our spiritual goals are materialistic in
their value. And this is the conflict that is going on there. In this process, the totality of man's
experiences created what we call a separate identity and a separate mind.
But actually, if you want to experience anything, be it your own body or your own
experiences, you have no way of experiencing them without the use of the knowledge that is
passed on to us. In other words, I would say that thought is memory. But we have been made
to believe that human beings are created for a nobler and grander purpose than the other
species on this planet and it is that belief that is responsible for our thinking that the whole
creation is created for the benefit of man.
Everything that is born out of thought is destructive, anything that we discover. The laws of
nature or whatever you call it are used by us only for destructive purposes. And it is true that
we have discovered quite a few of nature's laws and the theories are constantly changing.
Thought is not the instrument for achieving anything other than the goals set before us by our
culture or society or whatever you want to call it. The basic problem we have to face today is
this. The cultural input, or what society has placed before us as the goal for all of us to reach
and attain, is the enemy of this living organism. Thought can only create problems. It cannot
help us to solve any.

What I am talking about is not a thoughtless state. Even the invention of what is called a
thoughtless state, placed before us by many spiritual teachers as a goal to be reached, is
created by thought so that it can, by pursuing what it calls a thoughtless state, maintain its own
continuity. So whatever we experience in this process of achieving the goal of a thoughtless
state strengthens and fortifies the very thing that we are trying to be free from.
It is thought that has invented the ideas of cause and effect. There may not be any such thing
as a cause at all. Every event is an individual and independent event. We link up all these
events and try to create a story of our lives but actually every event is an independent event. If
we accept the fact that every event is an independent event in our lives it creates a tremendous
problem of maintaining what we call identity. And identity is the most important factor in our
lives.
We are able to maintain this identity through the constant use of memory which is also
thought. This constant use of memory or identity or whatever you call it is consuming a
tremendous amount of energy and it leaves us with no energy to deal with the problems of our
living. Is there any way that we can free ourselves from the identity? Through dialectical
thinking about thinking itself we are only sharpening that instrument. All philosophies help us
only to sharpen this instrument.
Thought is very essential for us to survive in this world but it cannot help us in achieving the
goals that we have placed before ourselves. The goals are unachievable through the help of
thought. The quest for happiness is impossible because there is no such thing as permanent
happiness. There are moments of happiness and there are moments of unhappiness but the
demand to be in a permanent state of happiness is the enemy of this body. This body is
interested in maintaining its sensitivity of the sensory perceptions and also the sensitivity of
the nervous system. That is very essential for the survival of this body. If we use that
instrument of thought for trying to achieve the impossible goal of permanent happiness the
sensitivity of this body is destroyed. Therefore, the body is rejecting all that we are interested
in--permanent happiness and permanent pleasure. So, we are not going to succeed in that
attempt to be in a permanent state of happiness.
Through a repetitive process we are sharpening that instrument but we are using tremendous

amounts of energy in this process. If the use of thought is limited to achieve only what we
consider to be materialistic values and not our spiritual goals, what is it that is not possible for
us in order to function sanely and intelligently? It does not mean that I am teaching a
materialistic philosophy or any such thing. Thought is not intended for achieving spiritual
goals or even to find out the significance, meaning or purpose of life or to be used for the
quest for permanence or permanent pleasure.
A guru is one who tells you to throw away all the crutches that we have been made to believe
are essential for our survival. The true guru tells you, “Throw them away and don't replace
them. You can walk and if you fall you will rise and walk again.” Such is the man whom we
consider or even tradition considers to be the real guru and not those who are selling those
shoddy pieces of goods in the market place today. It is a business It has become a holy
business to people.
I am not condemning anything but as long as you depend upon somebody for solving your
problems so long you remain helpless. And this helplessness is exploited by the people who
actually do not have the answers to your problems but they give you some sort of a
comforting. People are satisfied with and fall for this kind of thing instead of dealing with the
problems by themselves and for themselves. There is no need for me to free you or enlighten
you because to do that I must have an image of myself and in relationship to that an image of
you.
To be an individual and to be yourself you don't have to do a thing. Culture demands that you
should be something other than what you are. What a tremendous amount of energy we waste
trying to become that! If that energy is released what is it that we can't do? How simple it
would be for every one of us to live in this world! It is so simple.
The uniqueness of every individual cannot express itself because of the stranglehold of the
experiences of others. After all, you don't exist, and I don't exist. You and I have been created
by the totality of those experiences, and we have to use them in order to function sanely and
intelligently in this world.
It is something like, to use my favorite phrases, lightning hitting you, a jolt of lightning hitting

you, and you don't know what you are left with. You have no way of finding out for yourself
and by yourself what has happened to you. Has anything happened to me at all? But one thing
I can say with certainty is that the very thing that I searched for all my life was shattered to
pieces.
The goals that I had set for myself--self-realization, God-realization, transformation, radical or
otherwise, or even enlightenment--were all false and there was nothing there to be realized
and nothing to be found there. The very demand to be free from anything, even from the
physical needs of the body just disappeared and I was left with nothing. Therefore, whatever
comes out of me now depends upon what you draw out of me.
I have actually and factually nothing to communicate because there is no communication
possible at any level. The only instrument we have is the intellect. We know in a way that this
instrument has not helped us to understand anything. So when once it dawns on you that this is
not the instrument and that there is no other instrument with which to understand anything you
are left with this puzzling situation that there is nothing to understand. In a way it would be
highly presumptuous on my part to sit on a platform or accept invitations like this and try to
tell people that I have something to say, that I have come into something extraordinary which
nobody has come into.
But what I am left with is something extraordinary; extraordinary not in the sense that it has
been possible for me through any effort or volition of mine but in the sense that everything
that every man thought, felt and experienced before is thrown out of my system. So you can
say that it is indeed a courageous thing that has happened to me. But I cannot tell people that
through courage you can put yourself into that kind of situation.
It is very difficult to tell people how it all happened to me. They are only interested in finding
out how it happened to me because their only interest is to find out the cause, find out what led
me into this. But when I tell them that it is acausal it is very difficult for them to understand
and accept it. Their interest is to find out a cause and make it happen to them.
You see, when I was listening to J. Krishnamurti it suddenly dawned on me, “Why the hell
have I been listening to this man? From his description I feel that I am in the same state as that
man." I said to myself that I was in the same state as that man, assuming for the moment that

he was in the same state that he was describing and in the same state that the great spiritual
teachers were in. "What the hell have I been doing all my life? Why the hell am I sitting here
listening to him?"
I then walked out with just one single thought whirling in me, as it were, like in a whirlpool.
"How do you know that you are in the same state?" I understand that the question implies that
I was familiar with the descriptions of various states. I had tried to simulate them in me and
experience them and that is all there is to it. So this question went on and on. But suddenly
this question also disappeared. I said to myself that there is no reason for me to feel grateful to
anybody, to express my thanks to anybody.
Whatever has happened to me has happened despite listening to this teacher or that teacher or
doing this, that or the other. But if I say all this it is something which is not very interesting to
people. They want to know and I tell them that I myself do not know. I cannot look at myself
and tell myself that I am an enlightened man, that I am a free man, that tremendous changes
have taken place in me. So I use this phrase which we very often hear on the commercials. It
is not something like before and after the wash. No washing has helped me to reach anywhere.
It is just a happening. I still have to use the word happening because there is no other way that
I can communicate this and give a feel of this to anybody else.
What is reported in the so-called story of my life is a garbled version of what I actually felt at
that time. Anyway, anything I say today is irrelevant because I don't know what I felt at that
particular moment and there is no way I can relive that experience from here. I said to myself,
“What is it that he has? If there is anybody in this world who can receive it, it is I." I said this
to myself and walked out. That, in a way, decided another phase of my life.
The old traditional approach to the whole question of enlightenment was thrown out of my
system although I continued to read books on religion, studied philosophy, psychology and
science. I tried to find out answers from those people who have not been contaminated by the
traditional teachings. I got interested in Western philosophy and science and tried to find the
answer to my basic question.
My basic question was one question, “Where is this mind that we are so concerned about, that
we are trying to understand, study and change? Why do we talk of a total change in the

makeup of the mind? I don't see any such thing as mind there at all, let alone a transformation
or mutation of the mind." This question always intrigued me and I questioned everybody
about the mind. I tried to get answers from every area of human thought but nothing helped
me to find out the answers to those questions. At that time I didn't have the certainty that I
have today.
The certainty I have today that there is no mind is something which I cannot transmit to
anybody however hard I may try because the very thing which we are using to communicate is
in jeopardy and you are not ready to accept that possibility. They made a tremendous structure
out of that philosophical thought. They talked of the void. They talked of emptiness. You
know, the whole Buddhist philosophy is built on the foundation of that no mind. Yet they have
created tremendous techniques of freeing themselves from the mind. All the Zen techniques of
meditation try to free you from the mind.
The very instrument that we are using to free ourselves from the thing called mind is the mind.
Mind is nothing other than what you are doing to free yourself from the mind. But when it
once dawns on you by some strange chance or miracle that the instrument that you are using
to understand everything is not the instrument and that there is no other instrument, it hits you
like a jolt of lightning.
Do you think these frontiers are going to disappear? They are not. Those who have entrenched
themselves, those who have had the monopoly of all the world's resources so far and for so
long, if they are threatened to be dislodged, what they would do is anybody's guess. All the
destructive weapons that we have today are here only to protect that monopoly.
But I am sure that the day has come for people to realize that all the weapons that we have
built so far are redundant and that they cannot be used anymore. We have arrived at a point
where you cannot destroy your adversary without destroying yourself. So it is that kind of
terror and not the love and brotherhood that have been preached for centuries that will help us
to live together.
Until this percolates to the level of human consciousness in the sense that man sees that he
cannot destroy his neighbor without destroying himself I don't think it will help. I am sure that

we have come to that point. Whenever and wherever you have an edge over your adversary or
your neighbor you will still continue to exercise what you have been holding on to for
centuries. So how are you going to solve the problem? All utopias have failed.
The whole mischief originated in the religious thinking of man. Now there is no use in
blaming the religious thinking of man, because all the political ideologies, even your legal
structures, are the warty outgrowth of the religious thinking of man. It is not so easy to flush
out the whole series of experiences which have been accumulated through centuries and which
are based upon the religious thinking of man. There is a tendency to replace one belief with
another belief, one illusion with another illusion. That is all we can do.
Anything that is born out of thought is destructive. You may cover it up with all wonderful
and romantic phrases, “Love thy neighbor as thyself". Don't forget that in the name of "Love
thy neighbor as thyself", millions and millions of people have died, more than in all the recent
wars put together. But we now have come to a point where we can realize that violence is not
the answer, that it is not the way to solve human problems.
So, terror seems to be the only way. I am not talking of terrorists blowing up churches,
temples and all that kind of thing, but the terror that if you try to destroy your neighbor you
will possibly destroy yourself. That realization has to come down to the level of the common
man.
This is the way the human organism is functioning too. Every cell is interested in its own
survival. It knows in some way that its survival depends upon the survival of the cell that is
next to it. It is for this reason that there is a sort of cooperation between the cells. That is how
the whole organism can survive. It is not interested in utopias. It is not interested in your
wonderful religious ideas. It is not interested in peace, bliss, beatitude or anything. Its only
interest is to survive. That is all it is interested in. The survival of a cell depends upon the
survival of the cell next to it. And your survival and my survival depend upon the survival of
our neighbor.
As long as there is division, as long as there is a separation within you, so long do you
maintain that separation around you. When everything fails, you use the last card, the trump in
the pack of cards, and call it love. But it is not going to help us and it has not helped us at all.

Even religion has failed to free man from violence and from ten other different things that it is
trying to free us from. You see, it is not a question of trying to find new concepts, new ideas,
new thoughts and new beliefs.
The human being modeled after the perfect being has totally failed. That has not touched
anything there. Your value system is the one that is responsible for the human malady, the
human tragedy-- forcing everybody to fit into that model.
You cannot do anything by destroying the value system because you replace one value system
with another. Even those who rebelled against religion like those in the communist countries
have themselves created another kind of value system. Revolution does not mean the end of
anything. It is only a revaluation of our value system.
The only answer to this human problem, if there is any answer, is not to be found through new
ideas, new concepts or new ideologies but through bringing about a change in the chemistry of
the human body.
Do you really think that there is freedom in the United States? What does that mean to a
starving man--freedom of speech, freedom of worship and freedom of the press? He does not
know how to read the newspapers and is not interested in them. At least in the communist
systems they fed, clothed and sheltered people, though that is now being denied to them in
those nations. There is more unemployment than ever before in the Western countries. I don't
think this is the model for the whole of mankind.
The whole system depends upon the exploitation of the resources of the world for the benefit
of the Western nations. These laws that you are talking about are always backed by force.
Ultimately, it is the force that counts. We all agree to submit ourselves to the decision of the
judge. If you don't want to submit to them the only recourse you have is to use violence. So all
the gangsters get together and create a legal structure which is favorable to them. That they
enforce on others through the help of violence, through the help of force. As long as it is
advantageous to you, you talk of law. When the law fails, you use force.
The demand to understand and bring about a change in you is the one that is responsible for
the demand to understand the world and then bring about a change in the world. They are one

and the same. That is why you are interested in listening to others. Through that listening you
think you will be able to bring about a change in you and then also a change in the world
around you. Basically, there is no difference between what is here and what is out there in the
world. There is no way you can draw a line of demarcation.
One thing that I always emphasize is that it is culture that has created us all for the sole
purpose of maintaining its status quo and its continuity. So, in that sense, I do not see that
there are any individuals at all. At the same time, the same culture has given us the hope that
there is something that you can do to become an individual and that there is such a thing as
free will. Actually, there is no free will at all.
The most important thing for us to realize is that thought is a very destructive weapon and that
thought is our enemy. However, we are not ready to accept the fact that thought can only
create problems but cannot help us to solve them.
My point is that there is nothing there to be changed. What these gurus in the marketplace are
doing is to sell you some ice packs and provide you with some comforters. But when you
come to me you find it very difficult for the simple reason that I do not offer you any solutions
to your problems. My interest is to point out that there are actually no problems and what we
are saddled with are only solutions. Also, we are not ready to accept the fact that the solutions
that these people have been offering us for centuries are not really the solutions. If they were
really the solutions, the problems would have been solved long ago. If they are not the
solutions, and if there are no other solutions, then there are no problems to be solved.
I am afraid that the rise of Islam, not only in the Moslem world but also in Russia and China,
is going make it a formidable force. Once this cry of holy war, jihad, spreads around we will
not know how to tackle that problem. I am not singing a doomsday song. That is what you are
going to face very soon. Islam is going to be a formidable force in the world. I don't know I
am not a prophet, I cannot say anything. But like anybody else I can hazard, if I may use the
word, a view of the shape of things to come. I don't know for sure and nobody knows, for that
matter, what will happen.
There is one thing that I want to say, emphasize, and overemphasize--that there is no way we

can reverse the whole thing. We are heading towards a disaster. Man must realize, and there
seems to be no hope of his coming to terms with the reality of the situation, that thought and
all that is born out of our thinking are the enemy of mankind and there is nothing to replace
that. Religious revivalism is not really the answer.
I personally feel that the basic question which we all should ask ourselves is, "What kind of a
human being you want on this planet?" Unfortunately, culture, whether it is Oriental or
Occidental, has placed before us the model of a perfect being. That model is patterned after
the behavior of the religious thinkers of mankind who have done more harm than good.
Everything that we are confronting today is a product of the religious thinking of man but that
thinking has no answers for the future of mankind. So if you want you have to find answers
within the framework of the systems that have failed to deliver the goods. I don't think
religious thinking has any answers for our problems today.
Nobody knows anything about life and there is no point in defining it. Anything that we say of
life is speculation on our part. What we are trying to understand or experience, life or
whatever, is through the help of the knowledge we have of it but thought is something dead. It
is something that can never touch anything living. The moment it tries to touch life and
capture it, contain it and give expression to it, it is destroyed by the living quality of life. What
we mean by life, however, is not actually life but living.
Living is our relationship with the people around us, the life around us, with the whole world
around us, and that is all we know. That relationship is actually not a basic relationship but a
relationship that is born out of our demand to become one with life. So anything we do, any
attempt we make to become one with it, is fruitless because there is no way we can establish
any relationship with the life around us.
I am not for a moment assuming or emphasizing that we are not part of it. We are part of it but
the most important question which we should ask ourselves is, "What is it that separates us
from the life around us and what is it that maintains the separateness or division, if I may use
the word, all the time?" Actually, what divides us is thought. Thought is matter but that matter
cannot stay there for long. The moment the matter is born it has to become part of the energy

again. But this demand on our part or on the part of thought to maintain continuity is the
demand that drives us to experience the same thing over and over and over again. And thus we
are maintaining this superficial, artificial, non-existent duality, division there between our life
and the life around us.
It is only an assumption on our part, and I would say it is a false assumption, that thoughts are
spontaneous and self-generated. They are not. Thought is only a response to stimuli. The brain
is not really a creator, it is just a container. The function of the brain in this body is only to
take care of the needs of the physical organism and to maintain its sensitivity whereas thought,
through its constant interference with sensory activity, is destroying the sensitivity of the
body. That is where the conflict is.
The conflict is between the need of the body to maintain its sensitivity and the demand of
thought to translate every sensation within the framework of the sensual activity. I am not
condemning sensual activity. Mind or whatever you want to call it is born out of this
sensuality, so all activities of the mind are sensual in their nature whereas the activity of the
body is to respond to the stimuli around it. That is really the basic conflict between what you
call the mind and the body. I don't think there is any such thing as mind separate from the
activity of the brain.
The body is not interested in sensual activity. It is not interested in any experiences that the
mind is interested in and is demanding. It is not even interested in the so-called spiritual
experiences, the religious experiences like bliss, beatitude, immensity and happiness.
Happiness is something which the body is not interested in. It cannot take it for long. Pleasure
is one of the things that it is always rejecting. The body does not know and does not even want
to know anything about happiness. Happiness is a cultural input there. Is there any such thing
as happiness? I would say, no.
So the quest for happiness is a cultural input and that is the common desire that we know
exists everywhere in every part of the world. That is what we all want and that want is the
most important want in human beings everywhere. Happiness, if you want to use that word, is
like any other sensation. The moment thought separates itself from what is called the sensation
of happiness, the demand to keep that sensation going longer than its natural duration also

occurs with it.
So any sensation, however extraordinary, however pleasant it may be, is rejected by the body.
Keeping that sensation going longer than its duration of life is destroying the sensitivity of the
sensory perceptions and sensitivity of this living organism. That is the battle that is going on
there. If you do not know what happiness is you will never be unhappy.
There is no individual there at all. Culture, society or whatever you want to call it has created
you and me for the sole purpose of maintaining its own continuity but at the same time we are
made to believe that you have to become an individual. These two things have created this
neurotic situation for us. There is no such thing as an individual and there is no such thing as
freedom of action. I am not talking of a fatalistic philosophy or any such thing. It is this fact
that is frustrating us.
The demand to fit ourselves into that value system is using a tremendous amount of energy
and there is nothing we can do to deal with the living problems here. All the energy is being
consumed by the demands of the culture or society or whatever you want to call it to fit you
into the framework of that value system. In the process, we are not left with any energy to deal
with the other problems. But these problems, that is, the living problems, are very simple. To
survive in this world is not a difficult problem, you see. But what is demanding is the value
system. Our effort to fit ourselves into that value system is consuming a tremendous amount
of energy.
It is just not possible to establish any relationship with anything around you including your
near and dear ones except on the level of what you can get out of the relationship. You see, the
whole thing springs from this separation or isolation that human beings live in today. We are
isolated from the rest of creation, the rest of life around us. We all live in individual frames.
We try to establish a relationship at the level of, “What do I get out of that relationship?” We
use others to try and fill this void that is created as a result of our isolation.
We always want to fill this emptiness, this void, with all kinds of relationships with people
around us. That is really the problem. We have to use everything--an idea, a person, anything
we can get hold of--to establish relationships with others. Without relationships we are lost

and we don't see any meaning, we don't see any purpose. This is because your only interest is
to create a purposeful and meaningful relationship with the individuals and the world around
you. Therefore, you want to understand the reality of the world but there is nothing to
understand. There is no such thing as reality at all. Anything you do to understand the reality
of the world is not going to be useful, helpful or meaningful.
The living organism is like a computer with an extraordinary intelligence. But here the energy
is a sort of expression of life. Energy is already there but you are all the time asking questions.
These are two computers talking but you want to introduce an element which is not part of the
functioning of this living organism. That is why you begin to think that there must be
something different here.
You are more intelligent than I am. You see, this is something which can be measured. We
have certain yardsticks in the world that say that you are more intelligent than I am. But any
attempt on my part to improve my intelligence, change it, modify it, make it better, would
consume tremendous amounts of energy, that is all. You see, without that what you are left
with is something extraordinary. It is not interested in comparing itself with your intellect or
anything. It is not a question of accepting that I am a low grade moron.
When once it is a fact that there is no movement in any direction of improving, changing or
evolving into anything different or better then what is there is something extraordinary. It is
unique in its own way. Every individual is unique. Nature creates perfect species, unlike
religion and education which attempt to create perfect individuals.
Every human being is different, that is all I am saying. There is nobody like you anywhere in
this world. I tell you, nobody! I am talking physiologically, you know. But we ignore that and
try to put everybody in a common mold and create what we call the greatest common factor,
all the time trying to educate them and fit them into the value system.
If that value system does not work, naturally revolutions take place. The whole idea of
restructuring is nothing but a revaluation of the old value system. Revolution only means
revaluation of our value system. It is the same thing. After a while things settle down and then
they go at it again. There is no improvement again or there is a slight improvement but it is

basically a modified continuity of the same. In that process, what horrors we have committed,
you know! Is it really worth all that? But you seem to think that it is. After killing so many
people you go back to the same system, the same technique. What is the point? But we will
keep going that way.
The questions, "Is there any meaning? Is there any purpose?" take away the living quality of
life. You are living in a world of ideas. Anything I say would not be of much interest to
people. When people ask me whether there is any such thing as reincarnation, my answer is
that there is reincarnation for those who believe in it, and there is no reincarnation for those
who do not believe in it. It is not a clever answer, because it is the belief which is important.
If you ask a fundamental question, "Is there any such thing as reincarnation as the other laws
in nature like gravity?" my answer would be negative, a definite no. It is not as much part of
nature as gravity is but if you want to believe that it is so it is a different matter. The belief in
reincarnation is born out of the demand that something will continue after your so-called
death. It is the same mechanism which wants to know what will happen after death.
For exactly the same reason you are asking the question, "Is there any meaning, is there any
purpose in life?" For some reason, that mechanism, that movement of thought, does not want
to come to an end. You have seen people dying there. So the belief that there is a center here,
that there is a spirit here, that there is a soul here, is what is responsible for that belief that
there must be something beyond but if you want to know if there is anything beyond, you have
to die now.
When the question or belief about that comes to an end death will take place here right now,
clinical death will take place. Then the question whether there is an afterlife would not at all
arise because the living organism has no way of knowing that it is alive. The belief has to go.
The end of belief is death. But you replace one belief with another, one illusion with another
illusion. That is all that we are doing.
Wherever there is division there can't be love. We are trying to bridge this gap, which is
horrible for us, which has no meaning, which is demanding something from us, with this fancy
idea that there must be love between these two individuals. Obviously, our relationships are

not so loving. So we want to somehow make them into loving affairs, loving relationships.
What an amount of energy we are putting into making our relationship into a loving thing! It
is a battle, a war. It is like preparing yourself all the time for war hoping that there will be
peace, eternal peace, or this or that. You are tired of this battle and you even settle for that
horrible, non-loving relationship. And you hope and dream one day it will be nothing but love.
“Love thy neighbor as thyself.” In the name of that how many millions of people have been
killed? More than all the recent wars put together. How can you love thy neighbor as thyself?
It is just not possible. Obviously, otherwise why are so many people, women, children and
helpless people killed?
Sexuality, if it is left to itself as it is in the case of other species, other forms of life, is merely
a biological need because the living organism has this object to survive and produce one like
itself. Anything you superimpose on that is totally unrelated to the living organism. But we
have turned that, what you call sexual activity, which is biological in its nature, into a pleasure
movement. I am not saying anything against the pleasure movement. I am not interested in
saying that you should condemn that or become promiscuous or use sex as a means of spiritual
attainment; no.
It is a very simple functioning of the living organism. The religious man has turned that into
something big and concentrated on the control of sex. After that the psychologists have turned
that into something extraordinary. All commercialism is related to sex. How do you think it
will fall into its proper place?
I am just pointing out the use to which we are putting that simple biological function. I am not
condemning it. It is there, you see. Your talk of that as an expression of love has no meaning
to me. We would love to put it that way because it is very comforting.
If sex is used only for the biological purpose it is not really a devastating situation. If you
leave it as it is it wouldn't be so horrible, the way you would like to put it, it would fall into its
proper place. That is why we have invented all these other things--God, truth, and reality--
which are nothing but ultimate pleasures.
Look at this moment. It's wonderful! I don't write poetry. The next moment I am looking at

you, you are as beautiful as the ocean there, probably more beautiful. You see, if I am freed
from all the ideas that I have of beauty, there is something that is extraordinary there. Nothing
needs to be done to change anything. Things are changing in their own ways.
We are afraid of coming to an end. There is nothing here to come to an end. Nothing will
come to an end except the one that does not want to come to an end. It is interested in
preserving itself somehow, in some way, even beyond death. You see, it is not going to
succeed.
Chapter Five: 1990 -- Various places
There is no process to go through to reach anywhere. It looks like I went through some
process. No, I did not. I wasted so many years of my life in pursuit of the goals that I had set
for myself. If it had dawned on me during the early stages of my life that there is nothing to
understand, I wouldn't have wasted all that time. But I don't see any way of comparing what I
did with what I stumbled into.
The fundamental mistake that humanity made somewhere along the line was to experience
this separateness from the totality of life. At that time, there occurred in people this self-
consciousness which separated them from the life around. They were so isolated that it
frightened them. The demand to be part of the totality of life created this tremendous demand
for the ultimate. We thought that the spiritual goals of God, truth or reality would help us to
become part of the whole again but the very attempt to become one or integrated with the
totality of life has kept us only more separate.
Isolated functioning is not part of nature. This isolation has created a demand for finding out
ways and means of becoming a part of nature. But thought, in its very nature, can only create
problems and cannot help us solve them. We don't seem to realize that it is thought that is
separating us from the totality of things. The belief that this can help us to keep in tune with
the totality is not going to materialize. So it has come up with all kinds of ingenious, if I may
use that word, ideas of insight and intuition.
What we are concerned about is living, our relationship with our fellow beings, with the life

around. By understanding the meaning of life and the purpose of life we are not going to
improve, change, modify or alter our behavior patterns in any way. But there is a hope that by
understanding the meaning of life we can bring about a change. There may not be any
meaning of life. If it has a meaning it is already in operation there. Wanting to understand the
meaning of life seems to be a futile attempt on our part.
We have been for centuries told what to do. Why are we asking the same question, “What to
do?” What to do in relation to what? What I am emphasizing is that the demand to bring about
a change in ourselves is the cause of our suffering.
I may say that there is nothing to be changed but the revolutionary teachers come and tell us
that there is something there in which you have to bring about a radical revolution then we
assume there is such a thing as soul, spirit or the self. What I assert all the time is that I haven't
found anything like the self or soul there.
This question haunted me all my life and suddenly it hit me, “There is no self to realize. What
the hell have I been doing all this time?” You see, that hits you like lightning. Once that hits
you, the whole mechanism of the body that is controlled by this thought is shattered. What is
left is the tremendous living organism with an intelligence of its own. What you are left with
is the pulse, the beat and the throb of life.
“There must be something more and we have to do something to become part of the whole
thing.” Such demands have arisen because of our assumption that we have been created for a
grander purpose than that for which other species on this planet have been created. That's the
fundamental mistake we have made. Culture is responsible for our assuming this. We thus
come to believe that the whole creation is for the benefit of man. The demand to use nature for
our purposes has created all the ecological problems. It is not such an easy thing for us to deal
with these problems.
The point is we have probably arrived at a place where there is no going back. What is the fate
of mankind and what is one to do? Anything that is born out of thought is destructive in its
nature. That is why I very often say in my conversations and interviews that thought--in its
birth, in its nature, in its expression and in its action--is fascist.

I do not see any meaning or purpose in life. A living thing, a living organism, is not interested
in such questions. Don't superimpose varieties of religious experience on nature. Your doing
something to go back to your natural state is what is taking you away from it. The natural state
is already there and is expressing itself in an extraordinarily intelligent way. The acquired
intellect is no match to the intelligence that is there.
I was surrounded by all kinds of religious people. I felt that there was something funny in their
behavior. There was a wide gap between what they believed and how they lived. This always
bothered me but I could not call all of them hypocrites. I said to myself, “There is something
wrong with what they believe. Maybe their source is wrong. All the teachers of mankind,
particularly the spiritual teachers, conned themselves and conned the whole of mankind. So I
have to find out for myself and I have no way of finding out anything for myself as long as I
depend upon anyone.”
I found that whatever I wanted was what they wanted me to want. Whatever I thought was
whatever they wanted me to think. So there was no way out of this. Somewhere along the line
something hit me, “There is nothing there to be transformed, nothing there to be changed.
There is no mind there nor is there any self to realize. What the hell am I doing?”
That spark hit me like a shaft of lightning, like an earthquake. It shattered the whole structure
of my thought and destroyed everything that was there, all the cultural input. It hit me in a
very strange way. Everything that every man had ever thought, felt and experienced before
was drained out of my system. In a way, it totally destroyed my mind which is nothing but the
totality of man's experiences and thoughts. It destroyed even my identity.
You want to become something other than what you are. That creates this neurotic situation.
The neurosis in the human species is absolutely essential. We have to maintain this neurosis in
order to function in this society. There is no other way that we can function in this society
except to live in hope and die in hope. There are some people who have given up but we force
them to become functional in this value system which we have created. We even push them to
commit suicide lest they become manic-depressive individuals. We are solely responsible for
driving all these people into a situation where they have to put an end to themselves. They

don't want to be functional here, they have given up. That is the reason why I say that the
psychiatrist is the enemy of this culture because he is forcing all those people who have given
up to fit into this value system.
Nature is trying to create something extraordinary, a perfect species. That is why each
individual is unique. Because of this input of culture it has become impossible for this
organism to show uniqueness. We have destroyed the possibility of what nature can do. You
only use this paradise that nature has created including not only mankind but all the species
that exist on this planet. We are solely and fully responsible for the chaos that mankind has
created and there seems to be no way out of it.
Every time a so-called savior comes along he says that he is an avatar and that he is the
answer to all our problems. This very thing, his claim that he is the answer, adds momentum
to the existing chaos and that situation makes it impossible for us to create something new.
That is not the way we can resolve our problems.
If they are looking for answers they should not look to Vedanta or Zen Buddhism. Those sects
don't have any answers for their problems. The scientists and psychologists have to find their
answers, if there are any answers, within their own framework. Only then will they be able to
help mankind to look at things differently. But there is no way you can go back and revive
anything.
Once a holy man came to see me. He was claiming that denial of sex is so essential for the
spiritual future of man. I said, “It's a crime against nature. Nature has not intended you to deny
sex.” Then he got up and left. How can that abnormal situation be made a model for all
spiritual aspirants and why torture them? Why has denial of sex been made the foundation of
spiritual enlightenment? As a reaction or a revolt against that, what you call the tantric system
appeared in this country.
To be attracted is natural. If you are not attracted you are a stone. The body, with its senses, is
not a stone. It has to respond to what is happening around it. What touches this body is not
your piety or your silence but your anger, your lust and everything that is happening there.
That is the response I am talking about.

The actions of life are outside the field of thought. Life is simply a process of stimulus and
response, and stimulus and response are one unitary movement. But it is thought that separates
them and says that this is the response and that is the stimulus. Any action that is born out of
thinking is destructive in its nature because thought is a self-perpetuating mechanism. Any
action that is outside the field of thought is one continuous movement, it is one with the
movement of life. It is that flow of things that I am referring to, you see.
To sidestep the complexities of life is one of the biggest mistakes that we are making. But
there is nothing out there, you see. All these godmen, gurus and the flunkies (the most wicked
word to use) are offering us a new oasis. You will find out that it is no different from other
mirages. We are leaving everything for some mythical certainty offered to us. But this is the
only reality, there is no other reality.
What I am emphasizing is if your energy is not wasted in pursuit of some mythical certainties
offered to us, life becomes very simple. But we end up being wasted, misled and misspent
individuals. If that energy is released, what is it that we can't do to survive in the midst of
these complexities of the world created by our culture? It is very simple. The attempt to
sidestep these complexities is the very thing that is causing us all these problems.
What I am saying is not what the mainstream of population is interested in. They hear what
they want to hear. What I say is of no interest to them. If you say that God is redundant it is
not a rebellion against anything. You know religious thinking is outdated and outmoded. But I
go one step further and say that all political ideologies are nothing but the outgrowth of the
same religious thinking of man.
What I am suggesting is that the very demand to understand the mystery of existence is
destructive. Just leave the mystery alone.
There was this makeup within me, from the very beginning, of rejecting everything totally. I
lived amongst masterminds. They were not ordinary people. I have traveled everywhere and,
as I say, I was not born yesterday. I did not come into town in a turnip truck. What I am saying
is that this is something that you cannot totally reject through any volition or effort of yours.

Somehow it happened to me. It is just a happening. The whole thing drained out of my system.
The parameters that mankind has evolved, the thoughts, feelings and experiences throughout
the ages, all this was thrown out of my system.
It's a miracle. What I am emphasizing is that whatever has happened to me has happened
despite everything I did. In fact, everything I did only blocked it. It prevented the possibility
of whatever was there to express itself. Not that I have gained anything, only that what is there
is able to express itself without any hindrance, without any constraints or restraints imposed
on it by society for its own reasons, for its own continuity and stability.
The search is inevitable and is an integral part of it. That is why it has turned us all into
neurotics and has created this duality for us. You see, ambition is a reality, competition is a
reality, but you have superimposed on that reality the idea that you should not be ambitious. It
has turned us all into neurotic individuals. We want two things at the same time. The demands
for pleasure and happiness have created the whole religious thinking--God, truth or reality.
We demand that there must be something permanent. That is what these religious teachers are
peddling. They claim to offer you eternal happiness. Are they ready to accept the fact that
bliss, love and compassion are also sensual? This certainty that I have is something that I
cannot transmit to you. It does not mean that I will go and burn all the churches and temples or
bury all the scriptures (that's all too silly) or that I will become a terrorist and mindlessly kill
everyone.
You are only trying to fit me into a framework by calling me an enlightened man but you have
not arrived anywhere. Even the claimants have not arrived anywhere. There is no other way I
can point out the danger that is involved in your seeking whatever you are seeking. You see,
there is this pleasure movement. I am not against the pleasure movement. I am neither
preaching hedonism nor advocating any “-ism” or anything. What I am saying is a threat to
you as you know yourself and experience yourself so you necessarily have to fit me into that
framework. Or else, you put it another way and say that the content of whatever has happened
to U.G. and to them is the same but his expression is different.
The natural state is the functioning of this living organism. It is not a synonymous term for

enlightenment or God-realization or self-realization. What is left here is this pulsating, living
organism. It is outside the field of experience, so it cannot be shared with anyone. That's the
reason why I am saying that he, you or it is the medium through which whatever I am saying
is expressing itself but you are distorting, correlating and garbling it. Thought cannot help
doing that.
From then on, understanding is not through the instrument which we are using all the time to
understand, the intellect. We have developed and sharpened the intellect through years. So it
understood in its own way that it is not the instrument, that there is no other instrument and
that there is nothing to understand.
My problem was how to use this intellect to understand whatever I was looking for but it
didn't help me to understand a thing. So I was searching for some other instrument to
understand, that is, intuition, this, that and the other. But I realized that this is the only
instrument I have and the hope that I would understand something through some other
instrument, on some other level and some other way, disappeared. It dawned on me, “There is
nothing to understand.” When this happened it hit me like a shaft of lightning.
From then on, the very demand to understand anything was finished. That understanding is the
one that is expressing itself now and it cannot be used as an instrument to understand
anything. It cannot be used as an instrument to guide, direct or help me, you or anybody. That
explosion that occurred is happening all the time. It is all the time exploding.
Any attempt on my part to understand anything at any given moment is exploded because that
is the only instrument I have and there is no other instrument. This instrument cannot invent a
thing called hope anymore. There is no hope of understanding. The moment it is forming
something there it is exploded, not through any volition, not through any effort, but that's
exactly the way it happens. It is continuously happening all the time.
That is the way life is moving along. It has no direction. The body has no need to understand
anything. The body does not have to learn anything because anything you learn, anything you
do, is attempting to change, alter, shape or mold yourself into something better. This is a
perfect piece that has been created by nature.

There is nothing to die here. The body cannot be afraid of death. The movement that is created
by society or culture is what does not want to come to an end. How it came to an end I really
don't know. What you are afraid of is not death. In fact, you don't want to be free from fear
because when the fear comes to an end you will drop dead. That is its nature. It is the fear that
makes you believe that you are living and that you will be dead. What you call yourself is fear.
The you is born out of fear, lives in fear, functions in fear and dies in fear.
When the body encounters a cobra it steps back and then you take a walk. The cobra is a
marvelous creature. If you hurt it you are hurting yourself. I mean it physically hurts you, not
psychologically or romantically, because it is all one movement of life. What I am saying is
that you will never hurt that. The cooperation there springs from the total selfishness of mutual
survival. It is that total interdependence for survival on the physical level that can bring about
unity.
The intelligence that is necessary for survival is already there in the physical organism, you
don't have to learn a thing. You need to be taught, you need to learn things, only to survive in
this world which we have created, the world of ideas. You have to fight for your piece of the
pie. Some joker comes along and says that you should fight without expecting any results.
What the hell are you talking about? How can you act without expecting any results?
As long as you live in this world you have to fight for your fair share. That is why they teach
you, send you to a school and give you some tools. That is what society has done to you but
religion comes along and tells you that you should fight for your share without expecting
anything in return. That is why you are turned into a neurotic individual. Otherwise, you will
fight only for your share. You don't grab the whole thing. You grab the whole thing because
you have been taught by religion, culture or something else to do so. Animals kill only for
their survival and leave the rest of their game. Every other thing survives on that. When one
takes only what is really needed, the rest is there for everyone else, there's plenty.
Man has created religion because it gives him a cover. You see, good and bad, right and
wrong are like the two ends of the spectrum, one cannot exist independent of the other. When
once you are finished with this duality (I am using the word with much caution although I

don't like to use it), when you are no longer caught up in the dichotomy of right and wrong or
good and bad, you can never do anything wrong. As long as you are caught up in it the danger
is that you will always do wrong and if you don't do wrong it is because you are a frightened
chicken. It is out of this cowardice that the whole religious thinking is born.
Nothing has happened to me. You and I are functioning in exactly the same way and I am not
anything that you are not. You think that I am different from you. I know for certain that you
are functioning in exactly the same way that I am functioning but you are trying to channel the
activity or movement of life both to get something and to maintain that continuity of what is
put in there by culture. That is not the case here.
What has created the space between creation and destruction or the time between the two is
thought. In nature, there is no death or destruction at all. What occurs is the reshuffling of
atoms. If there is a need or necessity to maintain the balance of energy in this universe, death
occurs. You may not like it. Earthquakes may be condemned by us. Surely they cause misery
to so many thousands and thousands of people. And all this humanitarian activity around the
world to send supplies is really a commendable act. It helps those who are suffering. But it is
the same kind of activity that is responsible for killing millions of people. What I am saying is
that war and humanitarianism are born from the same source.
The self-consciousness that occurred in the human species may be a necessary thing, I don't
know. I am not claiming that I have a special insight into the workings of nature. You see for
yourself. That's why I say that the very foundation of the human culture is to kill and to be
killed. It has happened so. If one is interested in looking at history right from the beginning,
the whole foundation of humanity is built on the idea that those who are not with us are
against us. That's what is operating in human thinking. So to kill and to be killed in the name
of God, represented by the church in the West and all the other religious thinking here in the
East, was the order of the day. That's why there is fundamentalism.
The body is not interested in your techniques of meditation which actually are destroying the
peace that is already there. It is an extraordinarily peaceful organism. It does not have to do

anything to be in a peaceful state. By introducing this idea of a peaceful mind we set in motion
a sort of battle that goes on and on. What you regard as peaceful is in actuality nothing more
than a war-weary state of mind.
Every insight you have is born out of your thinking. Your so-called insights merely strengthen
and fortify the very thing you are trying to be free from. All insights, however extraordinary
they may be, are worthless. You can create a tremendous structure of thought from your own
discovery which you call insight but that insight is nothing but the result of your own thinking,
the permutations and combinations of thought. Actually, there is no way you can come up
with anything original there. There is no thought which you can call your own. I don't have
any thoughts which I can call my own-- not one thought, not one word, not one experience. To
experience anything you have to depend upon outside knowledge.
The recognition of yourself as an entity is possible only through the help of the knowledge.
We start this process with children. We do not want that identity to come to an end. We do
everything possible to maintain it but the effort to maintain your identity is wearing you out.
The constant use of memory to maintain our identity eventually puts us in a state where we are
forced to give up yet when someone gives up the attempt to fit themself into the value system
they are scorned.
Even when we discover the laws of nature, for whatever reason we are interested in doing so,
ultimately they are used to destroy everything that nature has created. This propaganda that
the planet is in danger is media hype. Everybody has in fact forgotten about it. We are not
ready to face this situation squarely. We must not look for answers in the past or in the great
heritage of this or that nation and we must not look to the religious thinkers. They don't have
any answers.
I am not prophesying that there is going to be a paradise on earth, nothing of the sort. There is
not going to be any paradise. It is the idea of a paradise, the idea of creating a heaven on earth
that has turned this beautiful paradise that we already have on this planet into a hell. We are
solely responsible for what is happening and the answers for our problems cannot come from
the past and its glory or from the great religious teachers of mankind. Those teachers will

naturally claim that you all have failed and that they have the answers for the problems that
we are confronted with today. I don't think that they have any answers. We have to find out
the answers if there are any for ourselves and by ourselves.
It is amazing that we have tremendous faith in all these religious people who cannot deliver
the goods. In a business deal, if your partner refuses or fails to deliver the goods, that is the
end of the business relationship but in the area of religion they can get away with just
promising something. They don't deliver the goods at all. How we can fall for that kind of a
thing is beyond me. The whole con game has gone on for centuries. Why do we allow
ourselves to be conned by those con men? There is not a single exception. All these spiritual
teachers of mankind from the very beginning have conned themselves into the belief that they
have the answers, the solutions for mankind. They cannot deliver the goods. They only give us
hope.
When once the demand to change yourself into something better, something other than what
you actually are ceases, the demand to change the world also comes to an end. The world can't
be anything different from what we are. If there is a war going on within us we cannot expect
a peaceful world around us, we will certainly create war. This instrument is only interested in
perpetuating itself through what it calls understanding which in reality is its own
machinations. Nature creates something then it destroys it and creates something else. The
comparative process characteristic of thinking seems to be absent. The whole ethical culture
that is built by us to shape the actions of man has totally failed.
I don't want many people. I am trying to avoid all the seekers and if there are any finders they
don't need my help. By allowing myself to be surrounded by those people I am inadvertently
participating in the illusion that by carrying on a dialogue or a conversation with me they are
getting something. So I discourage people. Even if they just come and sit around me I try to
point out the ridiculous nature of this get together. I try to finish it by saying, “Nice meeting
you all,” but still they don't go. They would sit with me for hours and hours. Even if I get up
and go away they would be still there sitting and talking. They would be talking about what I
did or did not say or what they thought I had said.

Still they keep coming back. Most of those who come to see me are religious buffs of all
shapes, sizes and colors. Unless they have some sort of background in all this they can't be
interested in this kind of thing. They only come to receive some confirmation from me about
what they are interested in but they find that they are not getting anything from me. Still they
continue to come. You have no idea of how many thousands of people have passed through
the precincts of my homes.
Some of them are intelligent enough to realize that they are not going to get anything from me
and that there is no point in hanging around. Others are not ready to accept what I emphasize,
overemphasize and assert all the time, that whatever has happened to me has happened despite
everything I did. Some friends who have been with me for years say that they still have the
hope that they are going to get something from me. This, in short, is the story of my life. If
you destroy the authority of others, you in your own way become an authority.
The whole structure of religious thought is built on the foundation of discipline. Discipline to
me means a sort of masochism. We are all masochists. We torture ourselves because we think
that suffering is a means to achieve our spiritual goals. That's unfortunate. Life is difficult so
discipline sounds very attractive to people. We admire those who have suffered a lot to
achieve their goals. As a matter of fact, the whole religious thinking is built on the foundation
of suffering. Those who impose that kind of discipline on us are sadists and we are all being
masochists in accepting that. We torture ourselves in the hope of achieving something.
We are slaves to our ideas and beliefs. We are not ready to throw them out. If we succeed in
throwing them out we replace them with another set of beliefs, another body of discipline.
Those who are marching into the battlefield and are ready to be killed today--in the name of
democracy, in the name of freedom, in the name of communism--are no different from those
who threw themselves to the lions in the arenas. The Romans watched that fun with great joy.
How are we different from them? Not a bit. We love it. To kill and to be killed is the
foundation of our culture.
We are not honest, decorous and decent enough to admit that all relationships are built on the
foundation of, “What do I get out of this relationship?” It is nothing but mutual gratification. If

that is absent no relationship is possible. You keep the relationship going for social reasons or
for reasons of children, property and security. All this is part and parcel of the relationship
business but when it fails and does not give us what we really want we superimpose on it what
we call love. So it is just not possible to have any relationship on any basis except on the level
of mutual gratification.
The whole culture has created this situation for us through its value system. The value system
demands that relationships be based on love, but the most important elements are security and
possessiveness. When your hold on the other weakens, the relationship wears out. You cannot
maintain this lovey-dovey relationship all the time.
The relationship between a man and a woman is based on the images that the two create for
themselves of each other. So the actual relationship between the two individuals is a
relationship between the two images. But your image keeps changing and so does the other
person's. To keep the image constant is just not possible. So when everything else fails we use
this final, last card in the pack, love, with all the marvelous and romantic ideations around it.
To me, love implies two. Wherever there is a division, whether it is within you or without you,
there is conflict. That relationship cannot last long. As far as I am concerned, relationships are
formed and then they are dissolved immediately. Both these things happen in the same frame,
if I may use that word. That is really the problem. You may think that I am a very crude man
but if anybody talks to me about love, to me it is a four letter word. That is the only basic
relationship between man and woman, but it is a social problem for us as to what kind of a
relationship you should have.
Unfortunately, we have blown this business of sex out of proportion. It is just a simple
biological need of the living organism. But sex has become a tremendous problem for us
because we have turned the basic biological functioning of the body into a pleasure
movement. You see, if there is no thought, there is no sex at all. It is not just the sex act that is
important but the build-up that is there, the romantic structure that we have built around the
love play.
Here, the build-up is totally absent because there is no way to focus on any particular object
continuously. So you see, that has moved from there to here and again from here to something

else, as perhaps, to her movements. It is constantly changing its focus and there is no way that
you can maintain this build-up. What is there is only the physical attraction. That you can
never be free from, ever. All those people, these saints, are tortured with the idea of
controlling that natural attraction, but that natural attraction is something which should not be
condemned. You don't tell yourself that you are a god man, realized or enlightened, and that
you should not think these thoughts. Why the religious thinking of man has emphasized denial
of sex as a means to his spiritual attainment is something that I cannot understand. Maybe
because that is the way you can control people.
Sex is the most powerful drive. After all, the sex glands have to function. We cannot accept
the fact that we are just biological beings and nothing more. It is something like saying that in
the field of economics you are not controlled by the laws of supply and demand. But we are
not ready to accept the basic, fundamental fact that we are just biological beings and all that is
happening within the body is a result of hormonal activity. It is pure and simple chemistry.
Problems in that area cannot be solved in any other way than by trying to change the
chemistry of the body. I think our whole thinking has to be put on a different track. It is all
chemical. If, as they say, desires are hormones, then the whole ethical code and culture that we
have created through centuries to control the behavior of human beings are false.
So desire cannot be false. Anything that is happening within the organism cannot be false.
There is no sex at all without thought. Thought is memory. These experts make fun of me
when I say that one of the most important of all glands is the thymus gland. When I discussed
this subject with some physiologists and doctors they made fun of me. Naturally so, because
according to them the gland is inactive. If it is activated through any external means it would
be an abnormal situation. But the thymus is one of the most important glands and feelings
operate there without the element of thought.
You see, medical technology has ignored that for a very long time. They considered any
unusual condition of the gland to be an abnormality and tried to treat it. It is true that when
you reach adolescence it becomes inactive and then your feelings are controlled by your ideas.
When once this kind of disturbance takes place in the hormonal balance of the human body
through this catastrophe, through this calamity, through whatever you want to call it, not only

is the thymus activated but also all other glands such as the pineal and the pituitary are
activated.
What I have against medical technology is that you want to understand the functioning of
these things with a motive. When once you have some idea of how these glands function, how
the activation of these things will help mankind, you are not going to use it for the benefit of
mankind. What I am trying to say is that the feelings felt at the thymus are quite different from
the feelings induced by thoughts.
Sex has to be put in its proper place as one of the natural functionings of the body. It is solely,
mainly and wholly for the purpose of reproducing or procreating something like this. It has no
other place in the functioning of the body. Thought always interferes with sex. It has become a
pleasure movement. I am not saying anything against it. After that it goes. Thereafter, what
you are left with is the natural functioning of the glands.
So we have to revise all our ideas about this whole business of sex. We give a tremendous
importance to sex and so the denial of it becomes such an obsession with people. In India,
they even moved away from that denial and created what is called tantric sex. It was the
highest pleasure that human beings could have, sex through tantra was considered the highest.
The fact is that the person is very much there even at the moment when there is peak sex
experience. The experience has already been captured by your memory. Otherwise, you have
no way of experiencing that as a peak moment. If that peak moment remained as a peak
moment that would be just the end of sex. That would be the end of everything. The fact that
you remember it as a peak moment and want to repeat it over and over again implies that it
has already become part of your experiencing structure. You want it always and then want to
extend it for longer and longer periods of time.
All these things I observed myself. I did not learn about them from anyone. I saw them happen
in my own life. I denied myself sex for twenty-five years pursuing spiritual goals. Then I
suddenly realized, “Look, this is ridiculous. Celibacy has nothing to do with it. Sex is burning
inside of me. Why the hell am I denying myself sex? Why the hell am I torturing myself?”
That did not mean that I moved to the other extreme and practiced promiscuity as my way of
life. Sex is violence but it is a necessary pain for this body.

All creative things are painful. The birth of a child is a very natural thing but to call it a
traumatic experience and build up a tremendous structure of theories around it is something I
am not concerned with. It cannot be a traumatic experience. To continue with what I was
saying, that is why after all this violence you go to sleep. You feel tired. That is how nature
functions. All creations in nature are like that. Volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, storms and
floods are all part of nature. You cannot say that there is only chaos or that there is only order.
Chaos and order, like birth and death, are simultaneous processes.
What I want to say is that, unfortunately, society, culture or whatever you want to call it has
separated the sex activity and put it on a different level instead of treating it as a simple
functioning of the living organism. It is a basic thing in nature. Survival and reproduction are
basic things in the living organisms.
Look, anything we touch we turn into a problem and sex even more so because this is the most
powerful drive there is. If you translate it and push it into an area where it does not really
belong, namely the pleasure movement, we will then create problems. When once you create a
problem, the demand to deal with that problem within that framework is bound to arise. That
problem has to be solved by people, otherwise they become neurotic. They don't know what to
do with themselves. Not only that but everything--God, truth, reality, liberation--is ultimate
pleasure. We are not ready to accept that.
Sex has become a very powerful factor in our lives. That is why there is also a demand to put
limitations on it by culture, first in the name of religion and then in the name of the family,
law, war and a hundred other things. You talk of the sacredness of life and condemn abortion
and then you go and kill millions of people in the name of your flag, in the name of patriotism.
That is the way things are. You first create a tension. All this fantasy, all this romantic
nonsense, is building up tension.
It's really unfortunate that man got away with everything for centuries while society ignored
women. Half the population of this planet was neglected, humiliated and treated as doormats.
Even the Bible story tells you that the woman is made out of the rib of man. What
preposterous nonsense! The other party is also responsible for that. You are praising the

woman as a darling and she accepts that minor role. The woman is also to be blamed for it. I
am not overly enthusiastic about all these feminist movements today. It is a revolt that really
has no basis. It's more of a reaction.
One of the leaders of the feminist movement visited me and asked, “What do you have to say
of our movement?” I said, “I am on your side but you have to realize one very fundamental
thing. As long as you depend on man for your sexual needs, so long you are not a free person.
If you use a vibrator for your sexual satisfaction, that is a different matter.” “You are very
crude,” she said. I am not crude. What I am saying is a fact. As long as you depend upon
something or somebody there is scope for exploitation.
There was a time when I believed that if women were to rule this world it would be a different
story. We had a woman prime minister in India and a woman prime minister in Sri Lanka.
There was a lady prime minister in England. But I tell you they are as ruthless as any others;
in fact, more ruthless. This dream of mine was shattered when I saw that woman there in
Jerusalem. So it is not a question of a man running the show or a woman running the show. It
is the system that corrupts.
Now they are talking of hormones. They say that it is the hormones that are responsible for the
violence. If that is so what do we do? Assuming for a moment that the advantage that we have
had for centuries is not a culturally instigated thing but a hormonal phenomenon, you have to
deal with it in a different way and not put that person on the couch, analyze him and say that
his mother or his great-grandmother was responsible for his aggression. That is too absurd and
silly. So we have to find some way.
The basic question which we have to ask for ourselves is, “What kind of a human being do
you want?” Unfortunately, we have placed before ourselves the model of a perfect being. The
perfect being is a god man or a spiritual man or an avatar or some such being. But forcing
everyone to fit into that mold is the cause of our tragedy. It is just not possible for us all to be
like that.
Once upon a time, the scepter and the crown, the church and the pontiffs, were all worshiped.
Later, the kings revolted against that and then the royal family came to be admired and
worshiped. Where are they now? Others have eliminated royalty and have created the office of

the president. We are told that you should not insult the head of the state. Until yesterday he
was your neighbor and now he becomes the president of your republic. Why do you have to
worship a king or a president? The whole hierarchical structure, whether of the past or of the
present, is exactly the same.
This has no value in the sense that whatever I am cannot be fitted into any value system. It is
of no use for the world. It has no value for me and it has no value for the world. You may very
well ask me the question, “Why the hell are we talking about all this?” Because you had some
questions to throw at me and what I am doing is to put them in a proper perspective. I only
say, “Look at it this way.”
I am not interested in winning you over to my point of view because I have no point of view
and there is no way you can win me over to your point of view. It is not that I am dogmatic or
any such thing. During a conversation like this somebody throws at me words like, “Oh, you
are very this and very that.” “Alright,” I say, “This is my point of view. What the hell is
yours?” It is also a point of view. So how do you think these two points of view can be
reconciled and for what purpose do you want to reconcile them? You feel good because you
have won someone to your point of view. You use your logic and your rationality because you
are more intelligent than I am. All this is nothing but a power play. You feel good like the
people who claim to render service to mankind. That is the do-gooder's high. It is a self-
centered activity. You shamelessly tell others that you are doing a social turn. It is just like
any other high. If I admit this, living becomes very simple. You are doing it for yourself and
you tell others and yourself that you are doing it for the benefit of others.
I believe that the problems of this planet can be solved through the help of the tremendous
technology at our disposal. But the benefits that we have accrued through these advancements
have not yet percolated to the level of all the people living on this planet. Technology has
benefited only a microscopic number of people. When nature has provided us with such
bounty, why is it that people are underfed? Why are they starving?
How do we change a human being and for what purpose? If any changes are necessary in
human beings and if you want them to function differently by freeing them from all the things

that the ethical, cultural, legal structure is failing to free them from and thereby create a
different kind of people then probably only genetic engineering could come to our aid. Codes
of ethics, morals and the legal structure are not going to help. They have not helped so far.
They have not achieved anything.
Our pushing people into a value system is a very undesirable thing, you know. You want to
push everybody into a value system. We never question that this value system which we have
cherished for centuries may be the very thing that is responsible for our misery. But through
the help of genetic engineering we may be able to free individuals from thieving tendencies,
from violence, greed and jealousy.
If you are lucky enough to find yourself where there is no attempt on your part to get out of
the trap then it may be a different story. But the fact of the matter is that the more you try to
get out of the trap the more deeply you are entrenched in it. This is very difficult to
understand. I tell all those who want to discuss with me the question of how to decondition
yourself, how to live with an unconditioned mind, that the very thing that they are doing is
conditioning them, conditioning them in a different way. You are just picking up a new lingo
instead of using the usual one. You begin to use the new lingo and feel good, that's all. But
this is conditioning you in exactly the same way. That's all it can do. The physical body is
conditioned in such a way that it acts as intelligence. Conditioning is intelligence here. There
is no need for you to think.
The conditioning of the body is its intelligence. That is the native intelligence of the body. I
am not talking about instinct. The intelligence of the body is necessary for its survival. That
intelligence is quite different from the intellect which we have developed. Our intellect is no
match for that intelligence. If you don't think, the body can take care of itself in a situation
where it finds itself in danger. Whenever the body is faced with danger it relies upon itself and
not your thinking or your intellect. If, on the other hand, you just think then you are
frightened. The fear makes it difficult for you to act.
People ask me, “How come you take walks with the cobras?” I have never done it with a tiger
or any other wild animal but I don't think I would be frightened of them either. If there is no
fear in you then you can take walks with them. Fear emits certain odors which the cobra

senses. The cobra senses that you are a dangerous thing. Naturally, the cobra has to take the
first step. It is one of the most beautiful creatures that nature has created. They are the most
lovable creatures. You can take a walk with them and you can talk to them.
I don't know, once a friend of mine, a movie star, visited me in an ashram that I was staying
in. She asked me whether it was all an exaggeration that cobras visited me and that I took
walks with them. I said, “You wait till the evening or night and you will be surprised.” Later
when we went for a walk at dusk not just one cobra but its wife, children and grandchildren,
about fifteen of them, appeared out of nowhere. My guest ran away. If you try to play with it
you are in trouble. It is your fear that is responsible for the situation you find yourself in. It is
your fear that creates a problem for the cobra. Then it has to take the first step.
If the cobra kills you, you are only one person whereas we kill hundreds and thousands of
cobras for no reason. If you destroy these cobras then the field mice will have a field day and
you will find that they destroy the crops. If I find a cobra trying to harm a child or somebody I
would tell him or tell the cobra to go away. You know, the cobra will go away. But you on the
other hand have to kill. Why do you have to kill for no reason? The fear that they will harm us
in the future is what is responsible for such acts but we are creating an imbalance in nature.
Because of the constant use of memory, which is thought, to maintain identity, many of the
glands which are very essential for the functioning of the living organism have remained
dormant, inert and inactive. The pineal gland is, like the thymus, one of the most important
glands. That is why they called it the ajña chakra. If it is activated in a natural way it will take
over and give directions to the functioning of this body without thought interfering all the
time.
When I use the term natural state it is not a synonym for enlightenment, freedom or God-
realization and so forth, not at all. When the totality of mankind's knowledge and experience
loses its stranglehold on the body, the physical organism, then the body is allowed to function
in its own harmonious way. Your natural state is a biological, neurological and physical state.
We function in a thought sphere and not in our biology. The separative thought structure
which is the totality of man's thoughts, feelings, experiences and so on--what we call psyche

or soul or self--is creating the disturbance. That is what is responsible for our misery. That's
what continues the battle that is going on there all the time. This interloper, the thought
sphere, has created your entire value system.
The body is not in the least interested in values, much less a value system. It is only concerned
with intelligent, moment to moment survival and nothing else. Spiritual values have no
meaning to it. When through some miracle or chance you are freed from the hold of thought
and culture you are left with the body's natural functions and nothing else. It then functions
without the interference of thought.
Nature does not use models. No two leaves are the same. No two faces are the same. No two
human beings are the same. I say that no change is necessary, period. Your corrupt society has
put into you this notion of change, that you are this and you must be that. Anything that insists
that you be something other than what you in fact are is the very thing that is falsifying you
and the world.
I somehow stumbled into this natural state on my own and I cannot under any circumstances
transmit it to others. It has no social, political, commercial or transformational value to
anyone. I do not sit upon platforms haranguing you, demanding that you change the world. As
things are, you and the world, which are not two separate things, cannot be any different.
All these attempts on the part of man to change himself go entirely against the way nature is
operating. That is why I am not interested. Sorry! Take it or leave it, it's up to you. Whether
you praise me or insult me I am not in the least interested. It is your affair. I don't fit into the
picture at all. I am only talking about it in response to your questions. You throw the ball and
it bounces back. There is no urge in me to express myself to you or anyone else.
You want to make something of what I am saying, to use it somehow to further your own
aims. You may say that it is for humanity's sake but really you don't give a damn about society
at all. What I am saying cannot possibly be of any use to you or your society. It can only put
an end to you as you know yourself. Neither is what I am saying of any use to me because I
cannot set up any holy business and make money, it is just impossible for me. I have no
interest in freeing you at all. I don't believe in altering you in any way or saving or reforming

society or doing anything for mankind.
Society cannot be interested in what I am talking about. Because I am a direct threat to you
individually as you know and experience yourself, I am also a threat to society. How can
society possibly be interested in this sort of thing? Not a chance. Society is the sum of
relationships and, despite what you may find agreeable to believe, all these relationships are
sordid and horrible. This is the unsavory fact, take it or leave it. You cannot help but
superimpose over these ugly relationships a soothing, fictitious veneer of loving,
compassionate and harmonious relationships.
All you know is separateness and duration, space and time, which is the frame superimposed
by the mind over the flow of life. But anything that happens in space and time is limiting the
energy of life. What life is I don't know nor will I ever. You can say that life is this, that or the
other and give hundreds of definitions but the definitions do not capture life. It's like a flowing
river. It is only your fear of something coming to an end that is the problem. The ending of
fear is the ending of you as you know yourself.
To me the question of whether God exists or not is irrelevant and immaterial. We have no use
for God. We have used God to justify the killing of millions and millions of people. We
exploit God. You don't want to read your own history. It's full of violence from the beginning
to the end.
Afterword
For years before I met UG, I was searching for God and wanted enlightenment, and worked
towards it by doing a little bit of meditation, and reading some scriptures and Eastern
philosophy as well. However since I didn’t have the devotion, perseverance or the will, I was
soon bored and disgusted since (these activities) couldn’t end my problem of wanting love, or
breaking free from boredom and loneliness. At that time I didn’t realize that it was not God
that I was interested in, but a cure for emotional pain and frustration. That understanding
(which I came to with the help of Moorty, my friend in California) hasn’t ended the struggle

now either. I came across JK’s books and they [resonated instead of rhymed(?)] very well in
the beginning but soon I felt that I was going in endless circles of words that made me more
confused than ever and since I didn’t have what was needed to implement his teachings in real
life, I disposed of his books too. (Maybe disposing of his books was the action that came out
of reading his philosophy.)
Later on, I stumbled upon UG's books and kept going back to them for a few years. I was
bamboozled by the simplicity, freshness and vitality in his words. However all that excitement
also passed away and I continued on until one day when I felt that I couldn’t take the burden
of life or the emotional turmoil any more. I needed someone to help and who other to go to but
an enlightened person like UG? I asked my friend Moorty about UG's arrival in the US and
found out he was going to visit New York in a week.
On my first meeting as I walked into UG’s room in the Southgate Hotel, I didn’t get any
special attention from him as he was engrossed in a question and answer session with
someone else. I felt a little ignored at first but as I sat there for a few minutes I felt relaxed and
not only just liked his presence but at the moment it felt as if I had come across what I had
been looking for, something very beautiful and satisfying. I shot occasional questions at him
pertaining to God, but they received the same answers as in his books and I just couldn’t carry
on any philosophical conversation past a couple of minutes. (Talking to UG can be very
frustrating. For instance, in response to the question of where did all the questions come from
he says the questions are born out of the answers. And if you ask then where did those
answers come from it will be just an unending merry go round. Or for example when he says
that the human being is born out of culture, and if you ask where did culture come from, there
is no satisfying answer to that question either.)
For the next few days, for unexplainable and inexplicable reasons, I felt so light being around
him and enjoyed the warmth of his company. I took pictures of him, which he never refuses,
but hugs and kisses he never obliges. The last day when UG was leaving, I suddenly broke
down and couldn’t stop crying even though I had the knowledge that attachment breeds pain.

But it was too late for me for UG’s arrow had struck in my heart. I had never imagined that I
could feel love from a man who says love is a four-letter word. For the next few days after UG
left, it felt that I was injured and as if an arrow had actually pierced my heart. It felt more
painful trying to get it out. All these years the walls I had tried to build around myself started
to fall down. Some kill with hatred and weapons, UG is a man who you feel is killing you
with an overdose of love.
After UG left I kept in touch with him over the phone and visited him a few more times.
During my visits it felt as if he filled my cup with love, hearing his voice and gazing in his
eyes made my heart fill with love and joy. After spending a couple of days with him I felt
rejuvenated and as if a new person was present in the same body, although every now and then
sorrow and emotional pain became deeper and would seem to last forever. There is a light-
headedness every time this storm passes away or as UG says, the peace one experiences is
“war weariness.” For some time in my head I had this beautiful romance going with him but it
had no effect on him and the very mention of love met the same response, that it is a four-
letter word. Despite what UG says, however, being with him feels like he is an ocean of love
that one likes to watch from a distance but is too afraid to jump into. He is like fire, it’s
pleasurable to sit and feel the warmth from far away but you don’t want to touch it for fear of
getting burnt. Why would I want my own end? While I was enjoying my fantasy, I never saw
it coming that the rug was pulled right out from under my feet: UG made himself unavailable.
All this time I had gone to see him or called him with an expectation of ending my misery and
turmoil, it seemed to end for a while and I felt so refreshed after I talked to him. But soon I
realized that I was getting more into this quagmire and before I knew it I felt that the sorrow
had become so overwhelming that I couldn’t even struggle to overcome it. It is as if you turn
into a rock that breathes, with every breath you pray for death but that is of no consequence
since breath just goes on. And I ask myself, “Do I really want to die?” Actually I am afraid of
dying and afraid of living, so I find myself stuck between two doors and I don’t want to make
an exit from either one of them.
There is something so intoxicating about UG, it is sweeter than the sweetest nectar but you

can’t posses him or have him at your will, and that creates the tragedy of helplessness that one
feels when he disconnects from you. It is like a sweet poison, once you start tasting it, it seems
so delicious that you can’t stop, but once he goes away or you are ignored by him the venom
spreads and you feel that you are completely abandoned. You look for something to fall back
on but whatever you want to rest on gives way and you are left only capable of holding onto
your breath, unless you are busy with some activity.
UG surely has helped me psychologically, though it is hard to put my finger on how. But I feel
his treatment is very painful. Would I want it again if I knew it would be so painful? I don’t
think I would have the courage, but out of desperation, yes, I would surrender to it again.
As for UG’s teaching, I think that even though it apparently seems different and new, from a
layman’s perspective, someone who is not very informed as a theologian, my view is that it
produces the same result as the Upanishads or Bible or Quran. They say the way to
enlightenment is meditation or the love of God, that this is the way in which the holy spirit
rises from the stomach and goes to the head as kundalini. However in this day and age for
someone like me who is incapable of unconditional love or devotion, all the traditional stuff
seems boring and I don’t have the motivation to follow the instructions in those books. Even
though UG expresses ideas such as that masturbation is better than meditation, I have seen that
after people have their ammunition of questions unloaded and are left with nothing to argue or
question, they just sit there and breathe or fall asleep which is similar to meditation or actually
is meditation. So even though he criticizes meditation he is actually putting his friends into a
meditative state. And in order to do that he uses this approach to destroy this garbage of ideas
we have collected. And this negative approach seems more enticing and novel. UG is actually
a living teaching and he himself is the Quran or Bible or Upanishad and for that reason his
presence seems to be a lot more potent and powerful then the words in a book. As one gets
past the intellectual mental debates about God with UG, once one gets hooked in the heart to
him and falls for him unintentionally, it seems to have an affect on the person. And the pain
one feels after the encounter is as strong as the love that oozes from him or as my friend Julie
says love is already in us, UG just puts in touch with it.

Ravindra Bhalla
Boston, Massachusetts
April 2004
U.G. (Courtesy Julie Thayer)

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BlogThis!
FIRST AND LAST PUBLIC TALK OF U.G.
KRISHNAMURTI AFTER HIS CALAMITY
AT THE INDIAN INSTITUTE OF WORLD CULTURE BANGALORE IN THE YEAR 1972
Thursday, July 07, 2005
U.G. KRISHNAMURTI (Courtesy J. Thayer)

Let me, at the very outset, thank the authorities of the Indian Institute of World
Culture for giving me this opportunity to meet you all here. I was very reluctant to
accept the invitation of Mr. Venkataramaiah. But somehow, if I may use that word,
I was trapped into this kind of a thing. As Mr. Kothari pointed out, I don't like to
give talks at all. You all seem to be very fond of listening to speeches, talks,
lectures, discussions, discourses, conversations, and so on. I do not know if at any
time you realize for yourself and by yourself that you never listen to anybody or
anything in this world. You always listen to yourself. I really don't know what to
say. I don't know what you want to listen to and what I am expected to do.
This is supposed to be a discourse and a dialogue. I very often point out to those
who come to see me and talk things over that no dialogue is possible and no
dialogue is necessary. It may sound very strange to you but nevertheless the fact
does remain that no dialogue is possible, and yet no dialogue is necessary.
If you will permit me, I will say a few words to set the ball rolling, as it were. That's
a very hackneyed and over-worked expression but that would serve our purpose.
I am going to say a few words about the state of not knowing. How can anybody say
anything about the state of not knowing? I have necessarily to use words. Can we
use words without indulging in abstract concepts. I say we can. But I do not, at the
same time, mean that it is a non-verbal conceptualization. That is a funny thing --
there is no such thing as non-verbal conceptualization at all. But, perhaps, a few
words like this will enable you to understand the methods of thought prevent you
from understanding the limitations of thought as a means to directly experience life
and its movements.
This state of not knowing is not my particular state. This, I call it a natural state of
your being. This is as much your natural state as it is mine. It is not the state of a
God-realized man. It is not the state of a self-realized man. It is not the state of a
holy man. It is the natural state of every one of you here. But since you are looking
to somebody else and you are reaching out for some kind of a state of liberation,

freedom, or moksha -- I don't know what words you want to use -- you are lost.
But how can one understand the limitations of thought? Naturally, the only
instrument we have is the instrument of thought. But what is thought? I can give
you a lot of definitions, and you know a lot of definitions about thought. I can say
that thought is just matter, thought is vibration, and we are all functioning in this
sphere of thought. And we pick up these thoughts because this human organism is
an electro-magnetic field. And this electro-magnetic field is the product of culture.
It may sound very inappropriate on this occasion to say that in order to be in your
natural state, all that man has thought and felt before you must be swept aside and
must be brushed aside. And that means the culture in which you are brought up
must go down the drain or out of the window. Is it possible? It is possible. But at the
same time it is so difficult because you are the product of that culture and you are
that. You are not different from that. You cannot separate yourself from that
culture. And yet this culture is the stumbling block for us to be in our natural state.
Can this natural state be captured, contained and expressed through words? It
cannot. It is not a conscious state of your existence. It can never become part of
your conscious thinking. And then why do I talk of this state of not knowing? For all
practical purposes it does not exist at all. It can never become part of your
conscious thinking.
Here I have to explain what I mean by the word consciousness. You and I mean two
different things probably, I don't know. When do you become conscious of a thing?
Only when the thought comes in between what is there in front of you and what is
supposed to be there inside of you. That is consciousness. So you have to
necessarily use thought to become conscious of the things around you or the
persons around you. Otherwise, you are not conscious of the things at all and at the
same time you are not unconscious but there is an area where you are neither
conscious nor unconscious. But that consciousness, if I may use that word,
expresses itself in its own way and what prevents that consciousness to express
itself in its own way is the movement of thought.

What can anyone do about this thought? It has a tremendous momentum of millions
and millions of years. Can I do anything about that thought? Can I stop it? Can I
mold it? Can I shape it? Can I do anything about it? But yet our culture, our
civilization, our education -- all these have forced us to use that instrument to get
something for us. So can that instrument be used to understand its own nature? It is
not possible. And yet when you see the tremendous nature of this movement of
thought and that there isn't anything that you can do about it, it naturally slows
down and falls in its natural pattern.
When I say that, I do not, of course, mean what these people in India talk about--
that thought must be used in order to get into a thoughtless state or into a
meditative state. But there is no such thing as a thoughtless state at all. Thoughts
are there; they will be there all the time. Thoughts will disappear only when you
become a dead corpse -- let me use these two words - dead corpse. Otherwise,
thoughts are there and they are going to be there. If all the religious teachers tell
us that you are going into a thoughtless state, they are taking us all for a ride. They
can promise you that in that thoughtless state -- in that state of silence, in that
state of quietness or in that state of a quiet mind or whatever phrase you want to
use -- there will be this real bliss, beatitude, love, religious joy, and ecstatic state
of being -- all that is balderdash. Because, that state, if there is any state like the
state of bliss, it can never become part of your consciousness. It can never become
part of your conscious existence. So you might as well throw the whole thing -- the
whole crap of these ideas, concepts and abstractions about the blissful states --
into a cocked hat, if I may use that American slang.
So what is one to do? Can anybody help you? No outside agency can help you. That
means a complete and total rejection, as I said in the beginning, of all that man has
thought and felt before you. As long as there is any trace of knowledge, in any
shape, in any form, in your consciousness, you are living in a divided state of
consciousness.
He (Mr. Kothari) referred to my coming into a state of not knowing or the calamity,

as I myself refer to that. What happened? I don't know. Suddenly thought has fallen
into its natural state. The continuity has come to an end. So what I am saying is not
the product of thinking. It is not manufactured by my thought structure inside. Nor
is it a logically ascertained premise. But what is happening here is only the
expression of that state of being where you do not know what is happening. You do
not know how this organism is functioning. As he (Mr. Kothari) himself referred to,
this is a pure and simple physical and physiological state of being. It has no religious
undertones or overtones. It has no mystical content whatsoever and at the same
time this extraordinary thing, the extraordinary intelligence that is there, which is
a product of centuries of human evolution, is able to express itself and deal with
any problem and any situation without creating problems for us.
Q: May I interrupt you? I was told by people who are around you that when this
calamity befell you, you couldn't recognize even ordinary things. You were asking
like a newborn child, "What is this?" Even if there was a flower in front of you, you
did not know if that was a flower. Then you would ask, "What is this?" And the Swiss
lady who was keeping house for you, who was looking after you, Valentine (she is
here with us) said, "This is a flower." Then you would ask again, "What is this?" You
mean to say that at the time when the calamity took place, all recognition was
gone?
U.G.: Not only then but even now, as I said, this is a state of not knowing. Since the
memory is there in the background, it begins to operate when there is a demand for
it. That demand is created by an outside agency, because there is no entity here.
There is no center here. There is no self here. There is no atman here, there is no
soul here at all. You may not agree. You may not accept it but that unfortunately
happens to be a fact. The totality of thoughts and feelings is not there. But there is
an illusion that there is a totality of your feelings and thoughts. This human
organism is responding to the challenges from outside. You are functioning in the
sphere -- so thousands and thousands, perhaps millions and millions of sensations

are bombarding this body. Since there is no center here, since there is no mind
here, since there is nothing here, what is it that is happening? What is happening
here this human organism is responding to the challenges, or to the stimuli, if I may
put it that way. So there is nobody here who is translating these sensations in terms
of past experiences but there is a living contact with the things around, that is all
that is there. One sensation after another is hitting this organism and at the same
time there is no coordinator here. This state of not knowing is not in relationship to
your brahman, or your nirguna brahman or saguna brahman or any such thing. This
state of not knowing is in its relationship to the things that are there around you.
You may be looking at a flower. You may think that it is a crazy state. Perhaps it is,
I don't know. You do not know what you are looking at. But when there is a demand
for that -- and that demand always comes from outside. "What is that?" And then
the knowledge, the information that is there locked up in this organism comes and
says that it is a rose, that this is a microphone, that's a man, that's a woman and so
on and so forth. This is not because there is a drive from inside but the outside
challenge brings out this answer. So I say that this action is always taking place
outside of this organism, not inside.
How do I know that these sensations are bombarding or hitting this organism all the
time? It is only because there is a consciousness which is conscious of itself and
there is nobody who is conscious of the things that are happening. This is a living
organism and that living state is functioning in its own way, in its natural way.
Mr. Kothari: U.G., it appears to me this nirguna brahman, atman, whatever it is --
when somebody uses the word bhuma, another uses the word unknown, the third
man says akal , the fourth one says something else -- all of them say that this
cannot be described, neti, neti. Probably they meant the same thing, I don't know.
I think they meant probably what you are saying as totality. As I understand it,
brahman means totality. If I would translate this state into terms of those times,
probably it is the same thing as being in the state of Brahman and thought which is

limiting the alpa, which is limiting the bhuma, which is limiting the limitless, since
it does not function like that, creating an individuality within you. Maybe I am
wrong, maybe I am translating, but I say that it is possible that the person who
listens to you doesn't know the old terms. You are not going to use the old terms
because the new terms are your terms. And every teacher, every person who has
come into some state like this has generally used a different term, a different
word, according to his background. But personally I think you mean the same thing.
This is a commentary on what you are saying.
U.G.: What do you want me to say? (Laughter) If they have understood what there
is they wouldn't be here. They wouldn't go to anybody. They wouldn't ask these
questions at all. If they translate what I am saying in terms of their particular fancy
or their particular background, that's their tragedy, it would be their misery. It
hasn't helped them. This is my question, "Has it helped you?" Why are you hung up
on these phrases? They are after all phrases. When once you realize, when once this
is understood -- how this mechanism is operating, how automatic it is, how
mechanical it is -- you will realize that all these phrases have no meaning at all.
You may very well ask me why I am using these phrases. Because you and I have
created this unfortunate situation where you have put me here on the dais and
asked me to talk and naturally, as I said in the beginning, I have to use words. So
the moment I stop talking the whole thing has come to a stop inside. Is that so? It is
so here in my case because there is no continuity of thought.
We go back to the thing he (Mr. Kothari) referred to about the things around me.
Here there is a table. I don't know what it is. And at the same time, if you ask me,
"What is that?" I would immediately say, "It's a chair." It is there in the background.
It comes automatically, like an arrow. But otherwise, this is just a reflection of
this. I don't translate this as bimbavatu at all. But I have to use that word -- this is
reflecting the thing exactly the way it is. I don't want to use these metaphysical
phrases because you will immediately translate them in terms of your particular

parallel. There is no subject here independent of the object at all. So there is
nothing here. What is there is all that is there and you do not know what it is. So
now you turn there and this object has just disappeared, there is something else.
This has completely and totally disappeared from here and then what is there is a
thing that is there in front of me and it is just like this object, exactly the way it is.
But you do not know what it is. That is why I say it is a state of not knowing.
Probably you will find parallels to these things. What I am trying to point out is the
absence of what you are all doing at this moment is the state that I am describing
and it is not my state, that is the way you are functioning.
May I give an example of what is happening in the field of spectroscopy. I don't read
books but sometimes I read magazines. I get interested in these things. They have
developed very powerful lenses to take photos of objects. They have developed
micro-seconds, nanoseconds and picoseconds. It doesn't mean anything to you and
me, it's all technical language. Now they are able to take pictures of objects, say
for instance, of this table, every pico second. Every picture is different. In exactly
the same way, the reflection of that object is once now; another time, you turn
this side, you are back again -- it's again you. But don't translate this in terms of
newness and oldness. It cannot be communicated to you at all. This can never
become part of your experiencing structure.
I am throwing a lot of conclusions at you but even a thing like this cannot be
experienced by you at all. I don't know if you understand this. You have necessarily
to abstract this in order to experience a thing. So what I am trying to say is that you
can never experience your own natural state. This can never become part of your
experiencing structure. And what you are all trying to do all the time is to make
that -- whatever you want to realize or discover -- part of this experiencing
structure. So your experiencing structure and your natural state cannot co-exist at
the same time.
Mr. Kothari: The way you want to say is that everything is in a continuous flux all

the time. The human eye being limited and the human ear being limited, and the
human senses being limited cannot respond to the quick movement of existence.
They don't respond, they don't reflect. You say, unless there is a need of
recognition -- this thought, this verbalization, this word -- it is just a way of
affecting the life within you, and that's all. There is no need to verbalize or
translate, if possible. Am I describing what I understand of your state?
U.G.: That's what you understand. (Laughter) I am not trying to be irreverent.
Mr. Kothari: I am neither. What happens is, it seems to me (is he trying to mislead
you by saying...) that all these persons coming to this have tried to express this in
terms of what somebody else has said. It is all the time new. It is all the time fresh.
It is all the time indescribably beautiful. When they came into the world they have
to say. He says it is neither new nor old. It is never old. It is never old because he
does not take into the experience. It is not translated unless, as he says, it is
needed for translation. Otherwise, every time, life is indescribably, extraordinarily -
- all that is outside -- is extraordinarily fresh, extraordinarily new, though he
doesn't use the words fresh and new. This is how I understand.
U.G.: This I must stress, that the need for the operation of thought or the
movements of thought to come into being is decided by factors outside of this
organism. When and why and how this translation is to come into being is decided
by an action outside. The actions are always taking place outside. When there is a
demand, the movement of thought probably separates itself for a while to meet the
demands of the situation and then it is back again in the movement of life. So
thought is only functional in value and it has no other value at all.
What is more is that the continuity of thought is destroying the sensitivity of your
senses. When the movement of thought is not continuous, the senses begin to
function in an extraordinarily sensitive way. When I use the word sensitivity, I mean
the sensitivity of the senses and not the sensitivity of the mind. The sensitivity of

the mind is a trick of your mind and you can create a state of mind where you feel
sensitive to the feelings of everybody, to the things around you, and wallow in that
sickly state of mind and think you are getting somewhere. This is a thing that is
there all the time.
There is nothing to achieve, there is nothing to accomplish, nothing to attain and
no destination to arrive at. And what prevents what is there, this living state, from
expressing itself in its own way is the movement of thought, which is there only for
the purposes of functioning in this world. When the movement of thought is not
there...I have to use the clauses in terms of time, but time is thought. When
thought is there, time is there. When thought is there, sex is there. When thought
is there, God is there. When thought is not there, there is no God, there is no sex,
nothing is there. It may sound objectionable to you to accept my statement...
Mr. Kothari: Not at all.
U.G.: ...but the drug of virtues you practice, the practice of virtues is not a
foundation for it at all. And the practice of abstinence, continence and celibacy is
not the path to it. But if you want to indulge in them and feel greatly superior it's
your own business. I am not here to reform you. I am not here to lead you
anywhere. But this is a fact. You have to understand a fact as a fact. It is not a
logically ascertained thing, it is not a rational thing to understand it rationally. A
fact is a movement. Truth is movement. Reality is movement. But I don't want to
use these words because they are all loaded words. You know all about them. The
unfortunate thing about the whole business is that you know a lot about these
things and that is the misery of you all. This is a thing which you do not know at all.
I am not claiming that I know it. I myself don't know. That is why I say I don't know.
It's a state of not knowing. Let alone God, let alone reality, ultimate or otherwise, I
don't know what I am looking at -- the very person who has been with me all the
time, day and night. That is my situation. If I tell this to a psychiatrist, he will
probably put me on a couch and say something is radically wrong with me.

Probably, I am functioning like any other human being. He doesn't understand that.
That's his problem, it is not my problem anymore. So all your search -- for truth,
God, reality -- you use any phrase you like, is a false thing. You are all on a merry-
go-round, and you want to go round and round and round.
How can you ask for a thing which you do not know? How can you search for a thing
which you do not know? You all seem to know. You have an image of this state from
the description of this state probably you have already created. What state?
Somebody asked me: "What is the state you are in?" "What State? Mysore State or
Tamil Nadu State? What state are you talking about?" This is my response. What is
the state you are talking about? This is your natural state. You don't want to
understand that. You don't want to be in your natural state. It requires an
extraordinary intelligence to be in your natural state, to be yourself.
You always want to be somebody else, you want to imitate the life of somebody
else -- you want to imitate the life of Jesus, you want to imitate the life of Buddha,
you want to imitate the life of Shankara. You can't do it because you don't know
what is there behind. You will end up changing your robes from rose to saffron,
saffron to yellow or from yellow to rose, depending upon your particular fancy.
How can you ask for a thing which you do not know? How can you search for a thing
which you do not know? That is my question. So search has no meaning at all. Only
when the search comes to an end what there is will express itself in its own way.
You cannot tamper with that. You cannot manipulate that. You cannot manipulate
the action of the thing which is there, which has an extraordinary intelligence.
To be yourself is the easiest thing. And you don't want to be in your state. You'd
rather be somebody else, imitate the life of somebody else. That's your problem.
To be yourself doesn't need any time at all. But you talk of timelessness, which is a
mockery. To be yourself, do you need time? To be a good man, to be a marvelously
religious man, to be in a state of peace, to be in a state bliss, naturally you need
time. That will always be tomorrow. When tomorrow arrives, you say, "All right,
day after tomorrow." That is time, not this metaphysical or philosophical thing, I

am not talking about metaphysical time and timeless. There is no such thing as the
timeless.
I am making assertions, statements and conclusions -- you will object to them. Take
it or leave it. I don't expect you to accept anything that I am saying. You are not in
a position to accept or reject it. You can reject it because it does not fit into the
particular framework of your philosophy -- Shankara, Gaudapada, Ramanuja,
Madhvacharya, God-knows-what -- we have too many of them here. So how can you
understand this? The only thing to do is to throw in the towel. Turn your back on
the whole business. That is why it takes extraordinary courage, not the courage or
the bravado of these people who climb Mount Everest or try to swim across the
English Channel, or cross the Pacific or Atlantic, whatever their fancy, on a raft --
that is not what I mean. What I mean is the courage... You quote your Bhagavad
Gita or your Brahma Sutras, kaschid dhirah. All these phrases, what do they mean?
Abhayam brahma -- why do you all repeat these phrases? It has no meaning. It's a
mechanical thing. "How are you?" "I am all right, I am fine. Just fine. I couldn't be
better." In America, you know... "How are you this morning," "I am just fine. I
couldn't be better." In exactly the same way, you throw these phrases at
everybody. If you understand the way this mechanical structure is functioning
inside of you, you see the absurdity of the whole business of discussing these
matters everlastingly. Can you throw the whole business out of the window and
walk out?
Mr. Kothari: I think what he means is... When I meet him... I have known him for
about five years now. And I am many times reminded, on account of my having read
the Upanishads and this and that... I am reminded of the Isavasyopanishad, "Asmai
nayatu patha!" "Oh fire, takes us on the right path!" I find there is a sort fire in him
which sometimes, I fear, would frighten a person who does not understand, quite
grasp, even intellectually, what he is trying to convey. As I understand it, he is not
advocating anything. His whole approach is... He has no system. He says something

about these states, that this is your natural state. But the whole thing, this
achievement business, to get something, like something, comparing something to
some imaginary state which one has formulated, an image we got by reading about
those things -- that he says is all futile. It is strengthening the mental structure, it
is strengthening the thought structure and it is giving a life to it which, he says, is
all useless. It is the cause of your very misery, all the problems. It seems he has
seen it himself. And the structure went phut, the whole thing broke inside and, as
he says, he even does not know. That is the state of unknowing. When he says this,
I am reminded of the words of Jnaneswar who says, "I don't know what I am or
where I am." Even avidya has gone and vidya has gone also. So I see... only I want
to remind some of my listeners here... that the newness of expression, whatever he
is trying to convey, is as old as the hills and as fresh as the vibrations from that
thing now. It is as fresh or even fresher than the words I am speaking, the sounds
that I am throwing at you. It is more fresh than that. It is sanatana and puratana.
But, he says, it requires total courage.
Another thing that I have noticed in him is a kind of -- I am talking personally about
you but, as there is no personality, it doesn't matter. (Laughter) -- a tremendous,
fearlessness, abhayam tattva samsuptih. I would again quote the Gita, the daivika
sampatti, this is something that does not happen in the usual, normal men in whom
the animal fear is functioning all the time, as he says. But he does not come out of
that. I don't know how he came to it but a tremendous fearlessness and a sense of
abandonment... He is not a perfect specimen of all the wonderful virtues. He gets
annoyed and he gets angry also. For a moment you see the cloud of anger on his
face and after a minute you see the full moon is again on his face, smiling. The
clouds have disappeared all of a sudden. So I say, he says there is no risk in the
matter. Probably, in whatever he conveys, there is some suggestion. He says you
don't have the courage to throw in the towel. You don't have the fearlessness.
"(inaudible)...have got to go." He says, "You throw out the speaker also." I hope
some of you certainly have got the hang of what he is trying to convey.

Mr. Kothari: Your question is, when there is hunger and pain in the body, what
happens? You mean what happens to him or what happens to you?
U.G.: I will tell you. First of all, there is no hunger at all in the sense in which we
use the word. It's pure and simple chemistry. And then there is what you call
hunger which is like any other sensation, you understand. The consciousness or life,
or whatever you want to call it, becomes conscious of that thing and it is gone, it is
not there. It does not push you to reach out for food. And so the next sensation is
coming. It's a continuous movement. You are looking at something and this is
finished. Probably your body will become weaker and weaker if you don't eat food.
People give me food, so I eat food. Otherwise, there is no such thing as hunger at
all. And the pain, there is physical pain -- since there is no continuity of thought, as
I pointed out, there is no continuity of pain. It comes in impulses like that, just the
way you are throwing out words. There is no continuity of the pain. I don't want to
use the word psychological pain because it gets us involved in... because we will
begin to tie things in knots. There is only physical pain and there is no other pain
but even that physical pain is not continuous and so it is not much of a pain in the
sense in which we use the word.
Q: What is the way or method of getting into this state?
U.G.: What state? When the movement in the direction of wanting to be into your
own natural state or in the state of God-knows-whom you want to be -- your idol or
your hero or your master -- it is there, this movement in any direction is taking you
away from yourself. That is all that I am pointing out. When the movement is not
there you are your natural state. So the sadhana, the method or system or the
technique is taking you away from yourself in the direction of the state you want to
be in and that is the state of somebody else. As I pointed out, you have the
knowledge about this state. Unfortunately, so many people have talked about it. I
am already doing mischief, perhaps. Kick them all out on their backs.

Mr. Kothari: Not now! (Laughter)
U.G.: Yes, throw stones at me and walk out.
Mr. Kothari: They don't have any.
U.G.: My interest is to send you packing, as the expression has it. If you can do that
you will never go to listen to anybody.
Q.: If I throw stones, I will go to jail...
U.G.: I will not take you to jail. That's a problem with the society in which you are
caught. I can't help you. I will not be the first one to complain about it. Are you not
tired? I can go on. That's enough, I suppose.
I haven't said anything. What all you think I have said is a bag, you think it makes
sense. How can it make sense? If you think that it makes sense, you haven't
understood a thing. If you think that it doesn't make any sense, you haven't
understood it either. It's just words, listening to this noise -- words, words, words --
mechanically coming out of this organism. I don't know how they are coming. I wish
I knew. I wish I knew how I got into... what state? It always irritates me when
people ask me, "You tell us something..." About what state? What state are you
talking about? I know Mysore. I am in the Mysore State. How do I know that I am in
the Mysore State? Because people tell me that I am in Mysore. So what state you
want to get into? That is your natural state, I am saying.
What takes you away from your state is this movement in the direction of wanting
to be in some state other than yourself. To be yourself doesn't need time. If I am a
village idiot, I remain a village idiot. Finish. I don't want to be an intelligent man.
Even if my neighbor takes advantage of his extraordinary intelligence and exploits,
good luck. What can I do? To accept the reality, this is the reality of the world.
There is no other world. There is no other reality, ultimate reality. This is the only

reality. You have to function in this world. You can't run away from this world. How
can you run away from this world, because you are that world? Where can you go?
Hide yourself in a cave? Yes, you are taking your thoughts wherever you go. You
cannot run away from your shadow. It's there all the time. So you can't do a thing
about thought, that's all that I am saying. When you realize the absurdity of all your
effort to do something about the thought, it's creating the problem, it's misery for
you, you can't do anything. When you can't do anything, when you realize that you
can't do a thing about it, it's not there. You are not using it as a means to get
something for you.
I want to say this again. You desire. If you do not want anything, there is no
thought at all. You understand? Wanting is thinking, it doesn't matter what you
want -- want self-realization, want God-realization -- you want anything, that
means you have to use this instrument. These are not your thoughts, these are not
your feelings. You may not like it. They belong to somebody else. You want to make
them your own. You have unfortunately made them your own. That's why you ask
all these questions. Why do you ask all these questions? These questions have been
put before to so many people -- all the sages, saints and saviors of mankind, the
holy men dead and alive. They are all ready to answer. They have composed a lot
of lullabies. You go and listen to them and go to sleep, if you want to. That's what
you are interested in. You want somebody else to pat on your back and say, "Oh,
fine, just fine, you are doing very well. Do more and more of the same and you will
reach the destination you want to arrive at." What is the destination you want to
arrive at? To be gentle, meek, to be soft, to talk and whisper. You know if you go
to some of these monasteries in the West, the Trappist, they talk and whisper.
They don't even understand what the other man is saying. That's the secret to the
spiritual path.
Mr. Kothari: When a man is in love, he talks and whispers to his beloved. What
objection do you have to anybody talking and whispering?

U.G.: I have no objection at all. I wonder if he is really in love. (Laughter) You don't
even have to talk about it. You want to reassure your partner that you are in love
with that person. It isn't worth a tinker's damn, that love. That's not love at all. You
can call it love. I don't want to go into that. It's a forbidden subject. They ask me,
"Do you have anything to say about...?" It's a four letter word. It's like any other
word -- dog, pig, love. In love, can there be any relationship at all? Can you have
any relationship? This is your problem. You are all the time trying to have
relationship with people. You cannot have any relationship with people at all. "Love
is relationship. Life is relationship." All that guff, trite crap. You memorize and
repeat them. They all become fancy phrases these days. "Freedom," "first and last
freedom" and "the freedoms that come in between." -- what is this nonsense? This is
like any other trite... any other crap that these people are repeating. You have
memorized a new set of phrases, that's all you are doing. You sit and discuss
everlastingly all this awareness. What is that awareness you are talking about? How
can you be aware of this? Can you at any time be aware of it? If you are aware of
this once in your lifetime, the whole structure has collapsed, it has fallen in its
proper place. You don't have to do a thing about it. So it doesn't mean a thing at
all. You can talk of awareness, choiceless or otherwise, or conditioning.
Conditioning, what can you do about it? Conditioning is intelligence. You can't do a
damn thing about it. You can't free yourself. If you want to free yourself from your
conditioning or uncondition yourself and all that nonsense that is going on.... How
are you going to uncondition yourself? You create another conditioning, instead of
repeating Upanishads you will repeat some other thing, the fancy books.
Q: What is the secret of total happiness?
U.G.: There is no happiness. I never ask myself the question. So many people ask
me that question, "Are you happy?" What is that question? Funny question. I never
ask that question, "Am I happy?" Total happiness is an invention.

Mr. Kothari: Invention of the mind, you mean?
U.G.: There is no mind. Where is the mind? Is the mind separate from the body?
Distinguished from the body? Apart from the body? These questions have no
meaning at all. You have no way of separating yourself from what is going on. The
moment you separate yourself means you have a knowledge about it -- the
knowledge given by either the biologists, the physiologists, the psychologists or the
religious people. So through that you are looking at it. You cannot experience
anything without knowledge. You cannot experience this at all, let alone Brahman
or reality. You cannot experience this at all. Only through an abstraction. And what
is that abstraction? The knowledge you have about it. This has been put there. Your
mother told you, or your neighbor or friend told you that this is a table. What the
hell is that, you don't know, apart from what you have been told. Every time you
look at this, you have to repeat to yourself that it is a table. What are you doing
that for? This is my question. This is the continuity I am talking about. You want to
reassure yourself that you are there. The "I" is nothing but this word. There is no "I"
independent of this word. Maybe you find some parallel in Shankara or God-knows-
what.
Mr. Kothari: Plenty, plenty, because this is the same thing that they have talked
about.
Q: (Inaudible) ...thoughtless state as in "this, this, this."
U.G.: Yes, yes. They called it cit. The consciousness I am talking about is a state
where there is no division which says that you are asleep, that you are awake, that
you are dreaming... There is no division at all. I don't even know if I am alive or
dead. This is my state. I have no way of knowing for myself. The doctor can come
and say that I want to examine your lung, your lung is functioning alright, there is
heartbeat, there is this, that and the other. You are alive. That's alright. I am

delighted. You reassure me that I am a living being but...
Q: How do you know at any time that you are in the natural state?
U.G.: That, as I said, can never become part of your conscious existence. It begins
to express itself. The expression of that is energy and that is action. It is acting all
the time. This is not a mystical term. What I mean by action is the action is taking
place always outside. The senses are working at their peak capacity all the time.
It's not because you want to look at a particular thing. There is no time even for the
eyelids to blink for a second. They have to stay open all the time. And when they
are tired, it has its own naturally built-in mechanism which cuts off the sensation.
And then it's back again.
Q: What is that mechanism?
U.G.: What is that mechanism? Supposing somebody gives you an answer. So where
are you? Can you separate yourself from that mechanism? This is what I am saying.
You can separate yourself from the mechanism and look at it only through the
knowledge, whether the knowledge is provided by a physician or by a saint or by a
sage. And that is worthless because you are projecting this knowledge on what you
are looking at, and that knowledge is creating or producing these experiences. That
can never become part of that experiencing structure. That's the trouble. You want
to experience this. You can't experience this at all, whether it is the consciousness
that I am talking of or the living state or the state of not knowing or the things that
are there around. How is it expressing itself? It is expressing itself as energy, it is
expressing itself as action, in its own way. If I use some words, "It is aware of itself,
it is aware of its own incredible death, it is conscious of itself" -- all these phrases
may sound very mystical to you -- but you cannot. The brain physiologists, if I may
quote somebody -- they are trying to understand the brain and they have to find
some means to define... They have defined the brain as an instrument with which
we think. They are not so sure. You cannot separate yourself from the brain and its

activity and look at the brain. Can you look at your back and tell me something
about your back. Somebody else must come and tell you. And he has his own ideas,
fancy ideas. "You have a straight back." The doctor always observes people and
from his point of view he would say that that man is sick, this man's back is not
correct and so forth. Or if I see a painter, his description is something else. So this
is a thing which you cannot communicate to somebody else. Can you communicate
your sex experience to somebody else?
Mr. Kothari: Why sex experience? Any experience...
U.G.: Or any experience, for that matter. That's what everybody is trying to do -- a
painter, a poet or a writer. He is trying to communicate some experience, which he
calls extraordinary experience, through his medium -- writing poetry, culture. He is
like any other artisan.
Q: How do you reconcile your existence with the world?
U.G.: I don't bother. Do I exist in this world? Does the world exist for me? Where is
the world? I am not trying to be clever with all these phrases. I don't know a thing
about it. Am I talking, am I saying anything? This is like the howling of a jackal,
barking of a dog or the braying of an ass. If you can put this on that level and just
listen to this vibration, you are out, you will walk out, and you will never listen to
anybody in your lifetime. Finish. It doesn't have to be the talk of a self-realized
man. You will realize that there is no self to realize. That's all. There is no center
there. It is working in an extraordinary way.
Q: In the extinction of sense organs... if the sense organs do not function at all, for
instance, there is death, there is a state of not knowing and you still function.
U.G.: There is no death. You are never born. You are not born at all. (Laughter) I
am not trying to mystify. Because life has no beginning, it has no end. Has it a

beginning, has it an end? What creates the beginning is your thought. Why are you
concerned about death? There is no such as death at all. Your birth and your death
can never become part of that experiencing structure. If you want to experience
death, you are not going to be there. (Laughter) Somebody else will be there. It
will be somebody else's misery.
***
TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO TAPES
U.G.: You want comfort. You want affection from the person you are living with.
You want this, that and the other. But what you want to get -- the get of all the
gets -- you are not going to. That is in relationship with your enlightenment, your
freedom, transformation and all that kind of thing. There is nothing to get from me
or from anybody. You want to be at peace with yourself. You will not get anything
from anybody. All this is disturbing the peace that is already there. Your idea of
peace is altogether different.
Q: Now, it looks like... if we had no idea of peace at all...
U.G.: You have to live with your ideas and suffer. There is no way out for you. If
somebody says there is a way out, go there. Stand on your head, stand on your
shoulders, hang from the tree, meditate, do what you like -- misery continues. That
is another misery. What are you? You are miserable. You are a sitting misery,
walking misery, talking misery, living misery. You want to get out of that misery.
You are choked. What is it that is choking you, destroying the very thing that you
want? All those human values and all the good things. You want freedom and that is
killing you. It is very difficult to understand. To be free from the very demand to be
free is all that you have to do. That is not easy.
Q: Because there is nothing left...

U.G.: How can you say that now? When you are there that question would not be
there at all. That moment is a living moment. Life is not interested in any one of
those things. If I put it that way, it becomes a carrot for you. If I talk of life, living
moments, it becomes poetry, romantic stuff. It is another carrot. Anything I say will
be added to the stuff you already have. This will be another burden. It looks like
another new thing but it is the same thing. The newness of it is lost because you
have captured it within your framework.
That is why I was telling him that you have not moved away from your background.
It doesn't matter where you go -- J.K., U.G., Baba Free John -- the basic situation
remains unchanged. No matter where you go, you are looking for a new Bible, new
church and a new priest. That is all you can do. You can't do anything else.
Whatever you need to know to function in this world intelligently and sanely is
already there in you. You don't have to do a thing, to learn anything, to function in
this world. Whatever you learn afterwards is of no use to you. Knowledge is
widening. They say that the growth of intelligence stops by the time you are
sixteen. Whatever you learn afterwards is only widening the horizon and not in
anyway improving your understanding.
As far as the body is concerned, the growth of the body stops by the time you are
22 or 23 years. From then on it is slowly deteriorating. It is aging slowly. The
interest of everybody is to stop the aging process. That is all the interest of people.
In that sense I am not interested in expanding -- having more and more people. One
or two... it doesn't interest me. Moreover, I feel uncomfortable. It is happening in
India and it is happening in America. Because there is more and more publicity,
more and more curiosity is created in people. I don't know if there is anything to
astrology but they say, "You will become the idol of the masses."
Assuming for a moment that there is an enlightened one, that man cannot die
unless everybody in this world comes to know that there is such a man. They may
not even know what he is saying. That is the great tradition. It is in that sense that

this fellow has a message to give. Not like Rajneesh scandals and all that. The
astrologer said, "Until that happens you are not going to die. Another 21 years you
will constantly move, running away from the people in order to avoid them from
following you." I don't know, the age is going to catch up, I don't care what the
astrologers say.
***
Q: Sir! Do you have samkalpa? I have no English word for that. So I am using the
Sanskrit word -- a wish that something should happen.
U.G.: You see, there is no gap between my needs and my goals. I have no goal
independent of my needs. The needs are the physical needs of the body. There are
no other needs.
Q: There is nothing connected with what you see?
U.G.: No, I don't know what I am looking at. I really don't know. What I know is in
the background; and that is brought into operation in response to the demands of
the situation. It plays its part and then it is gone.
Q: So there is no samkalpa.
U.G.: I don't know, thoughts are there. They are not your thoughts or my thoughts,
they come and go. They are neither holy nor unholy. You have to use thoughts to
achieve something, to accomplish something. Here I can't use thoughts. Wanting is
thinking. They go together. My wants are my physical needs. The moment a thought
arises there the action is complete. You may feel the time-lag between what I call
an action here and the completion of that action out there. But to me there is no
time-lag. For example, there is thirst. You have to say to yourself that you are
thirsty. Thought has got to come into operation and separate itself from that
sensation of what you call thirst. Then the action is complete. That is what I mean

by action.
Q: The action is not quenching of the thirst?
U.G.: No, that is of secondary importance. In that sense the action is complete.
Every action is independent. Life is action. Life is acting all the time. There is not
one moment where there is no sensation of some kind or the other. You are
responding to the sensations all the time. But, of course, there are some moments
the nature of which you will never know. I don't know what you call samadhi or
nirvikalpa samadhi. The body has to go through the process of death every now and
then to renew itself. It is a renewal process. All the sensory activity has to come to
an end for a kshana, a fraction of a second, and it is impossible for you to visualize
and capture that. But if the body is in a state of repose it takes a longer time.
Sometimes for forty-nine minutes the body goes through a very elaborate process of
dying. Somehow it has to snap out of it because there are constant demands on the
body. This can hit you all of a sudden while you are walking in the street. But the
demands are so great that they cannot allow this for long.
Q: After that process of death is there anything like a you?
U.G.: You are talking of a you after death. Is there anything like what you call you
now? Where is it now? Are you awake? Are you alive now?
Q: I feel I am awake. I have come here. I started from home and have come to see
you.
U.G.: That is true. I also function as if the whole world is real. You have to accept
the reality of the world up to a point. Otherwise, you can't function in this world.
But I can't say that I am awake. I can't say that I am asleep either. I see and I don't
know what I am looking at. My sensory perceptions are at their peak capacity but
there is nothing inside of me which says that is green, that is brown and that you

wear a white shirt, a dhoti and glasses etc. No anesthesia has been administered on
me but still I really don't know what I am looking at. The knowledge I have about
things is in the background but it is not operating. So am I awake or asleep? I have
no way of knowing it for myself. That is why I say that in this consciousness there is
no such division as jagratta, swapna and sushupti -- aren't those the words for
wakeful, dream and deep sleep states? A total absence of this division in your
consciousness into wakeful, dream and sleep states may be called turiya -- not
transcending these things but a total absence of this division. So you are always --
to use your Sanskrit phrase, in the turiya state.
Q: Because we are involved in every perception we are not in the state you are
describing?
U.G.: Because there is a constant demand on your part to experience everything
that you look at, everything that you are feeling inside. If you don't do that, you as
you know yourself and as you experience yourself is coming to an end. That is a
frightening thing. You don't want to come to an end, you want continuity. All the
spiritual pursuits are in the direction of strengthening that continuity. So all your
experiences, all your meditations, all your sadhana -- all that you do is
strengthening the self. They are self-centered activities. Whatever you do to be
free from the self is also a self-centered activity. The process you adopt to attain
what you call being is also a becoming process. So there is no such thing as being.
Anything you do -- any movement, in any direction, on any level -- is a becoming
process.
***
Q: You say that if this thought barrier -- the protective mechanism -- is removed,
then the body responds to or resonates with anything that happens?
U.G.: Then there is no mirror which is reflecting. All your actions from then on are

reflex actions. Many of these things are handled by the spinal column. That is why
so much importance has been given to the spinal column. Sensations don't reach the
sensorium at all. They are handled and disposed off before that. The moment they
reach the sensorium, thought has got to come into operation. Then there is an
action necessary which is for the protection of the body.
***
U.G.: The comparative structure is absent here. When you ask some questions,
naturally I use this comparative structure. I have to use adverbs and adjectives
because they are part of the language, but really they don't mean anything to me.
Not that I am a hypocrite or any such thing. I say, "It is a beautiful thing." Yes, it is
a beautiful thing within that framework. I have to accept the reality of the world.
Otherwise, I can't function in the world. But actually there is nothing beautiful.
There indeed is beauty. That beauty is not an idea, not a concept. It is not a
thought. It is a response to something there. Maybe that is why they used the
phrase satyam sivam sundaram. They didn't mean this beauty. For example, there
is a mountain or some extraordinary thing. Here is a response to that beauty and
that response is a sudden change in your breathing. You take a deep breath and
look at it. By the time you realize what is happening, you have moved on from
there to something else. So you don't sit there and watch the sunset for hours and
hours and write poems. Nothing of that sort, because you are moving with it.
Q: Isn't a response a reaction to something?
U.G.: No, I make a distinction between reaction and response. Reaction is the
interference of thought and the translation of thought in terms of the experiencing
structure. But the response to the stimulus, or sensation are one movement. You
cannot separate the response from the stimulus. For example, you have moved your
hand from there. I don't move my hands in response to that movement, but all that
movement is felt here. This is the feeling -- not an emotion, not a thought, not any

of those things. If you hit something there, here you automatically say "Ouch!" --
the expression of pain, you see. There is nothing here independent of what is
happening there. That is why I call this a movement. This is totally attentive. Not
that there is somebody who is attentive. Everything that is happening there is
registered here as a movement. Where is the movement taking place? Is it there? Is
it here? Or where? I can't say, I really don't know.
***
U.G.: There are no images for me. Impressions are made through words like the
rods and cones. They come out of me in exactly the same way. So there is nobody
who is doing that. Memory is extraordinarily sharp. Supposing I want to memorize a
poem or something -- it is very difficult for me to do that. It's very strange. So if I
look at anything, it is automatically registered. There is no effort. Any effort means
that there is a distortion of the whole thing. If there is a demand for that, it
automatically comes out without any effort. Sometimes I can't recall names. At the
same time, I don't bother even if I don't happen to remember.
What I am saying can't be experienced by you except through the help of thought.
In other words, as long as the movement of thought is there, it is not possible for
you to understand what I am talking about. When it is not there, then there is no
need for you to understand anything. In that sense, there is nothing to understand.
***
U.G.: You are all occupied. You are interested in listening to what I am saying. I am
not interested in telling you anything at all. Do you hear the barking of the dog out
there? You translate it and say that is the barking of a dog. But if you are just
aware of that, it echoes here inside of you. There is no separation from you. There
is no translation. You are barking, and not the dog out there.
But one thing I must say. What I am saying is not born out of thinking. This is not a

logically ascertained premise that I am putting forth. These are just words springing
forth from their natural source without any thought, without any thought structure.
So take it or leave it. You will be better off if you leave it.
***
U.G.: They come here and tell me about their spiritual experiences. What do they
expect? They want me to pat on their back and tell them, "You are doing alright. Do
more and more of the same and you will reach your destination." I can't do that. I
emphasize that the experience which you are considering as something
extraordinary is totally unrelated to the final thing you are after. This is very
difficult to understand. I always give the example of these tremors. Tremors do not
mean that one day there will be an earthquake. These tremors have nothing to do
with the earthquake. This earthquake hits somewhere else, not at the place you
think it would occur. When this thunderbolt hits you, you will find out that all those
tremors you have been experiencing during what you call sadhana are totally -- in
fact, in no way -- are connected to that. This is very difficult to understand. That is
why all those doing sadhana ask me that question: "How do you know that what you
did -- all the sadhana -- is not responsible for where you are today?" I can say that
now this is not in any way related to what I did or did not do. Not a whiff of it.
Then you see the whole business of sadhana collapses. Because the sadhana is
always related to the goal you have fixed to yourself. As I was telling yesterday, as
a matter of fact, what is going on here is sadhana -- because I am blocking every
escape door. Somebody said, "Why don't you leave at least one ventilator open?"
Even that has to be blocked. You must be choked to death as it were. Only a real
teacher can tell and point out that, nobody else. Nobody else should talk about
that. Not that I claim that I am the real teacher or any such thing, don't get me
wrong. They are not those who interpret the texts. Only such a man can talk and
such a man will never encourage any kind of sadhana, because he knows that
sadhana is not going to help.

Life is energy. It is all the time trying to convert itself into energy. In the final
analysis there is neither matter nor energy. They are interchangeable. But when
thought takes its birth, then it is matter. In its very nature it splits itself into two.
If through some luck or strange chance it remains without splitting itself into two,
something has got to happen to that. And there it explodes. It is an atomic
explosion. The human organism has trillions of atoms. It's an electro- magnetic
field. When one atom explodes, it blasts everything that is there. It triggers a chain
reaction. You can't make this kind of a thing happen at all. Yet the possibility of its
happening in everybody is 100%. Not that I am placing a carrot before you. That is
its nature. That is why it happens in one in a billion. "Why does it happen to one
individual? Why not me?" If you question in that fashion you ain't got a chance.
***

U.G. KRISHNAMURTI (Courtesy of Julie Thayer)
Links
q POEMS
q DRAWINGS
q CONVERSATIONS
q THE NATURAL STATE
q STOPPED IN OUR TRACKS

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THE NATURAL MAN -- Poems on U.G.
By Larry Morris, Edited and Introduced by J.S.R.L. Narayana Moorty
q TALK
q DRAWINGS
q CONVERSATIONS
q THE NATURAL STATE
q STOPPED IN OUR TRACKS
Thursday, July 07, 2005

U.G. KRISHNAMURTI (Courtesy of Julie Thayer)
Introduction
A collection of poems with a person as the sole subject matter may seem presumptuous and smack of hero-
worship and religious cultism. Why should anyone but the writer be interested in such an act of adoration?
Who is this U.G.?
Once there was a person called U.G. He grew up like everyone else, went to school, practiced various spiritual
disciplines, married, had children, went practically insane, and by some chance what has been called 'the
Calamity' happened to him. And then that person ceased to be. The physical organism is still here. Some
habits, conditioning, and memories are still present, without, however, any force behind them, for the person
who previously tied them together is now gone.
Once the person called U.G. ceased to be, Universal Energy manifested itself through U.G.'s organism.
Somehow, in some inexplicable way, this Energy now seems to use all the peculiarities of whatever U.G. was
in the past--his conditioning, idiosyncracies and patterns of living, indeed U.G.'s voice and his body--without

being bound by any of them, to relate to the world. U.G. now functions as a Being among beings. He is "a
finely-tuned instrument", responding and relating to everyone around him and yet capable of changing with
circumstances with great ease. Depending on whom he is dealing with at the moment, the Universal Energy
that is now U.G. may appear assertive or yielding, ruthless or loving, and yet free from the divisions of the
self. (U.G. calls this state of his the "natural state", whence the title of this book.)
Although we see and deal with U.G. on the surface as a person like us, yet, inasmuch as we come to realize
that he cannot be known through any pattern, we begin to suspect that there may be no person as U.G. at all.
At any moment, in any context, we attribute certain characteristics to him, but we know that at the next turn
we are liable to be proven wrong, that he may turn out to be the exact opposite, and that all our attributions
are merely interpretations and projections based on our own predilictions, background, and self-centered
interests.
Yet U.G. is nothing outside of these attributions. We do not know what to do with him. When we are ready to
throw out our own hang-ups, we begin to suspect that there is nothing there in U.G. except this Energy, and
that this Energy is also in us, and everywhere. And we see that U.G., being that Energy, by constantly hitting
and upsetting our interests, goals, aspirations, fears and whatnot, in other words, by striking at the dam of
the self in us, is continually attempting to reestablish the unity of existence. Whether he succeeds or not is not
his concern. And, of course, our suspicion that there may be no person called U.G. "there" brings into question
the reality of our own person.
Such an Energy calls forth itself in its dealings with us. No wonder we feel in U.G.'s presence that excitement,
that sense of "unsettlement", that existential dread, that sense we may be "freaking out", and that surge of
the feeling of utter love.
Larry's poems reveal his response of personal devotion to U.G., his bhakti, as well as express his attempts--
adequate or otherwise--to come to grips with U.G.'s extraordinary impact on his life. If sheer exuberance of
Energy, that excitement, that pounding of the heart, and a feeling of melting into an abyss in response to U.G.
, is bhakti, then Larry's poems express bhakti. How can Larry, or we, contain ourselves if an opening is made
in us, thanks to our at least temporary readiness to let go of our guard, and an Energy bursts out? This
Energy keeps on coming, blasting and expressing itself in spite of our doubts, fears, hopes, despairs, petty
and selfish desires, our bickerings, and our clingings.
Yet, inspite of these phenomenal outbursts, we mostly keep falling back on our own resources; we don't trust
this Energy and we keep shutting it off through our calculations and fears. This Energy is constantly drawing
us toward freedom--freedom from self-concern, freedom from all the turmoil of existence, freedom to dance in
joy with life, freedom to live a carefree existence. U.G.'s example shows us how utterly easy it is to change
with all that is changing around us. It is our concern for ourselves which makes us so dreadfully serious, as we
drag our existence, heavily-laden on our backs, for what may seem like an eternity. When shall we be free if
not now? And how best to be free except by letting go of every concern including the concern to be free?
Larry has known U.G. since the mid-eighties and has been writing these poems ever since he met U.G. Larry's
response to U.G. was immediate and continuous: he has written over two hundred poems, and the present
work respresents a selection of them. These poems are simple and elegant. They vibrate with sincerity, feeling
and vitality. Many of the poems depict a concrete aspect of U.G., say his cooking or shopping, his hands or his
eyes, and go on to reveal how Larry is afftected by it, or rather how each of these aspects are an occasion of
U.G.'s love. Some others describe Larry's own condition--which is ours too--of forlorness, and some of his

ecstactic joy. Larry understands what U.G. is after--that is, removing all that is false and sham in us (some of
the poems describe this condition of ours) which we normally confuse with our true self. And Larry is bidding
U.G. to "finish him off".
How many of us across the world have been touched by U.G. may not be apparent to the general reader: we
have felt and been moved by what we understand as his unconditional love, the great joy and laughter that
surrounds him, his wrath and fury, his utter ruthlessness, the "good" feeling we experience when we are with
him--the feeling that we are so special, the feeling of intimacy and understanding, as also by the utter
simplicity of his living, and above all by the Presence of a vastly powerful and profoundly Creative Intelligence.
(We know that U.G. himself would brush all this aside with one sweep of his hand as our own projections.)
And Larry too has experienced U.G.'s unconditional love and the absolute peace that surrounds U.G.; he sings
of the ways he is touched by U.G. and of his longing for U.G. This is where an answer could be found to the
question of "Who would be interested in a collection of poems concerning one man?"
Like the Heart Sutra, which reflects our emptiness to ourselves and invokes the great Emptiness that is in us
all, Larry's poems open us to U.G. and the great Love and Joy that is in us, too.
J.S.R.L. Narayana Moorty
Seaside, California
Monday, July 04, 2005
U.G. (Magical, Mystical)
Magical, mystical, mad
Spiritual vacuum cleaner
U.G.
Male/Female
Passive/Active
Demonic/Chthonic
U.G.
Brain damaged?
Holy saint
with quick fluid motions
So quick
beyond thinking
Outside of all categories
Death-in-death

Life-in-death
U.G.
One of a kind
None of a kind
outside of all paths
beyond all teachings
more real than the Real
Fire let loose
on earth
too beyond our waking
to see.
Hard to feel so much
Energy
and still be us
upsetting all our notions
shattering all our devotions
demolishing all our potions
I dissolve
You dissolve
We dissolve.
Thank God
for U.G.
Super Natural
Cleaning
Cooking
Walking
Talking
always
he
is

one
with
what is.
Examining
minutely
cardboard
boxes
at
the
Price
Club.
Contemplating
Nothingness
with
Profundity.
What a Joy
to be with you
U.G.--
How our hearts
open
to your
exquisite
baffling
unfathomable
Presence.
No end
to this Energy--
No end
to this Joy.
Nuclear Generator

The
Energy
starts
somewhere
in
this
body
works
its
way
up
spiraling
through
the
head
shoots
into
the
heavens
bounces
off
the
sky.
The Finished Man
He
has
given
us
Everything.
His

own
completion.
We
are
the
nothing
he
is
always
offering
us
to
see
ourselves
as.
We
are
as
he
is
too.
Two
Nothingnesses
when
they
meet
produce
a
Great
Nothing.
So
Freeing
to
meet

our
own
Not-ness.
Thanks
for
the Nothingness
Mr.
U.G.,
Sir.
Spiritual Detergent
If U.G. didn't exist
we would have to invent him.
We do it anyway.
A figment
of our
Joyous Dread.
We're always happy
to be with U.G.
because he takes it all away--
wipes our slate clean.
After U.G.,
there's nothing left to anguish over;
No Anguisher left either.
"I will pull the chair,
the carpet,
the very ground you are
standing on."
Not much left after
U.G.
finishes us.

"I am become death."
That's why we flee
in Joy to him
each time
to receive the Great Gift
of self-release.
When we're not,
it's so easy
to just be.
Angel Hair
He
slams
the
pasta
package
on
the
table
rearranges
the
tiny
noodles
in
delicate
new
configurations.
Can
we
put
our

scattered
lives
in
those
quick
strong
hands
and
let
them
sort
us
out
set
us
free?
Quickly
in
the
silence
we
say
yes.
Anything
whatever
the
scary
cost
we'll
pay.
Loose
us
from
the

tangles
forever.
Calm Disclosure
Chiseled
features
erect
upright
posture
U.G.
centered
in
the
allness
floating
our
way
through
the
multitude
of
our
distractions
reaching
us
with
ineffable
peace.
How
Good!

Karma Scooper
U.G.
with
one
swift
flickering
glance
he
scoops
up
all
the
uncertainty
at
the
pit
of
our
stomachs
as
if
it
were
no
gift
at
all.
The Hidden Answer Is Obvious

U.G.--
still
as
a
forest
wild
as
a
volcanic
eruption
unpredictable
unknown
a
vast
scary
secret
begging
to
be
discovered
revealing
everything
open
to
everything
sharing
everything
still
baffling
obvious
like
our
life.

Unbenumbed
U.G.
exists
for us
(if at all)
within
the
spaes
between
our
thoughts.
Our
thoughts
bubble
up
on
divided
sides:
"should I
or
shouldn't I"
"will I
or
won't I"
until
they
reach
a
peak
of
conflicted
union

a
tiny
explosion
the bubble
bursts
Ah,
U.G.
again.
Declenched
Let go
Drop it
set it free
let it be
that
ancient
grimy
self
too
long
preoccupied
with itself.
Every
thought
another
excuse
for
not
freeing--
time
stops

now
no thought
left
to think
itself.
Phoning the Void
"What
did
you say?"
"Nothing."
It
was
only
the
echo
of
our
great
uncertainty
anxiously
seeking
to
be
filled
or
reassured
or
at
least
numbed

with
hope
instead
the
great
silence
booms
back
to
us
a
Peace
behond
reckoning.
Time with U.G.
How
quickly
we
reach
for
what
isn't
yet
there
or
has
already
come
and
gone.

U.G.'s
peace
takes
away
from
us
the
grasping
after
a
joy
that
left
us
long
ago
offers
instead
the
intensity
of
this
vast
instant
he
realizes
us
in.
Sunken Treasure
Extraordinary

clarity
alertness
Energy
comes
from
"sinking"
deeply
into
the abyss.
The motot
of
self
shuts
off.
All
is
quiet.
Nothing
left
to
think
no
thinker
left
either.
End
of
the
line
at
last
till
sputtering
transfusion:

New
Life
and
all
begins
again.
Driving Under the Influence
Driving
Mr. U.G.
Foot to trembling pedal
brake brake brake
hope I don't
blow it
doing 20
in
a
50 zone
oops almost hit
that one
hope
I make it
going soooooo
slow . . .
with
that
eerie
presence
next to me
E.T.
the

Man
from
the
moon.
My
shy
heart
racing
faster
than
the
car
ah,
U.G.
U.G. Attack
"Have a candy"
kindly
sweet
Uncle
U.G.
Just
eat
this
Super Lemon Drop
all
will
be
well
as
we

die
for
the
absolute
last
time
we
suck
the
bitter
acid
flavor
as
we
dissolve
into
basic
oblivion
we
got
nothing
but
U.G.
and
U.G.'s
got
nothing
but...
us?
U.G. City

Out of two million
people
and
Oh,
so many possibilities
for distraction
there's really
nowhere
to be
in this city
but with U.G.
in
the
little
shuttered
room
at
the
top
of
the
stairs
leading
to
Never
again.
So Many Followers
Were led
to
follow

a
path
that
took
them
straight
out
of
the
way
into
a
No way.
U.G.
please show me
the
No Way.
"No Way!"
Every thought
is
a
postponement.
Every question
already
knows
the
answer.
Every
movement
keeps
us
in
bondage.
Even

hopelessness
is
a
vague
hope
of
the
mind.
So stop
here
Now,
already.
Man for the Kali Yuga
"Truth
is
the
only
mantra
for
the
Kali
Yuga."
When
we
meet
Truth
we
stammer
stutter
fall apart

gasp
groan
Oh, No!
we
try
so
brave
to
act
like
we
know
what's what
we're
hip
cool
open
undisguised
finally
revealing
really ourselves
really...
until
we
meet
Truth
and
Truth
in
one
flickering glance
sees
through
all

of
our
deceptions
then
moves
on
(through compassion?)
to talk
of other things.
Fatal Attraction
We
are
drawn
to
U.G.
Moths
circling
so
carefully
the
flame
knowing
our
destiny
yet
what
else
can
we
do

the
sheer
joy
of
this
oblivion
pulling
us
into
itself.
Nothing to Do, Nowhere to Go
Nothing
is
happening--
No
one
to
be
just
hanging
out
in
the
void
with
U.G.
Every
thought
sets
a

goal
we
automatically
cancel
"Why
bother"
yet
still
all
this
energy
peace
freedom.
Nobody
cares
who
we
are
here.
What
a
release
from
ourselves
our
needing
to
be
Somebody--
yet
not
Nobody
either--
Just

here
orbiting
around
a
Quantum
Leap.
Still Envelope
When
we
are
with
U.G.
we
feel
hermetically
sealed
in
his
calm
peace
No
virtue
to
us
this
stillness
which
we
would
truly

love
to
earn
but
can't
and
have
no
way
to
get
there
almost
we
feel
guilty
for
so
much
unearned
peace...
without even trying?
Selfless
The
Man
with
no
image
walks
in

front
of
a
plate glass
window.
Startled
by
the
reflected
stranger
he
jumps
back
then
realizes:
"It's
me?"
U.G.'s Voice
I've
heard
gravelly
old
Zen
Masters'
voices
and
satiny
young
Yogi's
voices

severe
Swamis'
voices
elderly
dignified
mystics'
voices
(with
Angels
in
the
background)
I've
heard
serence
Sikhs
with
steady
voices
phlegmy
old
cabalistic
voices
powerful
Christian
prophet
voices
but
never
never
until
U.G.
has
a

voice
split
my
heart
wide
open.
Explanation
We
hang out
with
U.G.
Ice
packs
for
our
sore
hearts
to
freeze
ease?
the
terror
of
our
aloneness.
The Man Who Wasn't There
No

linkage
between
the
frames
in
his
eyes
Nothing
hooks
together
no
images
So
no
self
So
no
Love?
How
come
there
is
so
much
Love?
U.G.'s Company
We
blurt
out
just

what
we
don't
want
to
say.
We
got
caught
by
the
camera
looking
just
like
we
don't
want
to
look
all
our
facades
crumble
in
your
thin
smile
you
don't
even
have
to
shout

we
melt
anyway.
U.G.'s Eyes
When
you
look
at
me
do
you
see
everything?
In the midst
of
small talk
happy gossip
your darting
eyes
looking
everywhere
inside
me.
No
place
to
hide
from
that
penetrating

glance
that
shows
me
the
parts
I
can't
bring
myself
to
see.
Word Bullet -- I
Cuts
your
thought
in
two
stops
the
flow
of
images
breaks
the
connection
leaves
you
dangling
suspended

Nowhere
between
two
thoughts.
U.G.'s Power Suit
Being Perfect Has Nothing to Do with It
It's
something
different
from
all
that.
To
come
to
the
end
of
usefulness,
therefore
all
the
more
dangerous.
So
different!
How

can
we
imagine
it?
We
can't.
Love
With
one
tiny
flicker
of
a
glance
Love
sees
us
completely
knows
us
through
and
through
and
Loves
us
anyway.

U.G.'s Ears
Like the tears of
Shiva
How great are those
all-encompassing ears
Jivan-Mukta--
Bringing us home
to our not
being here
How grateful we are
for those precious
Big Beautiful
ears--
hearing our everythingness
thank you
No-one-there
for being here
for us
in our nothingness
trying-to-be-something
How can we
possibly
escape
the Love
of those eyes
the Joyous terror
of those
vast
ears?
Cosmic Naxalite

Destroyer
of
dreams
shatterer
of
illusions
how
your
terrible
words
hurt
our
ears
lay
waste
our
tiny
hopes
for
more
postponements
from
being
finished
with
the
useless
life
how
we
long
to
hear
something

of
value
to
hang on
to
when
all
else
fails
instead
you
strip
away
the last
shred
of
belief
in
our
own
self-fantasy
how
awful
your
words
how
terrible
your
silences
you're
right.

Shiva's Tomb
Abandon
hope
as
we
enter
the
dimly-lit
room
awaiting
the
dissolving
in
the
hot
stuffy
room
we
are
butter
in
the
frying
pan
we
don't
have
a
chance.
Formers

Former
directors
advisors
teachers
preachers
leaders
spiritual
giants
wowing
them
in
the
suburbs
where
are
these
spiritual
athletes
now?
where
are
the
Kudos
the
Kriyas
where's
the
Shakti
the
Satori
the
bliss
one
tiny

U.G.
smile
all
is
lost
time
to
wake
up
be
ourselves
ordinary
schleps
waiting
on tables
somewhere
all
the
grandiosity
taken
away
in
one
fell
swoop
one
look
from
Those
Eyes
we're
hooked
how
can

we
ever
escape
into
Nirvana
again?
Transfixed
The
Eyes
had
us
cornered.
No
way
out.
No
escape.
I
thought
I
could
get
away
by
pretending
that
time
mattered.
But
here

I
am
still
those
Eyes
demanding
"let it go!"
"drop it!"
Everybody's Happy but Me
Because
I'm
not
there
yet
Because
I
need
more
time
They
had
a
head start
I
need
more
instruction
My
aura
is leaking?

I
need
to
go
on
a
trip
lose
weight
forgive my mother
find
the
right
spiritual
teacher
who
'understands'
me
tell
my
story
have
more
guts
get
away
from
U.G.
move
in
with
him
figure
it

all
out
release
it
try
harder
quit
trying
Then
Then?
Then
I'll
be
happy
too
like everybody else.
K-Mart
U.G.
drifting
down
the
aisles
alien
transmuted
detached
in
a
sea
of
bustling

hungry
anxious
humanity
U.G.
desireless
in
a
cathedral
of
desire
"I
never
knew
it
would
happen
to
me
like
this."
Driving Lesson
U.G.
trusts
us
as
he
sits
absolutely
still
as

we
weave
in
and
out
of
harrowing
California
rush-hour
traffic.
He
calmly
reassures
us:
"you
can
have
an
accident
even
with
an
Enlightened
man
in
your
car."
Then
he
sits
so
still
like
a

stone
enveloped
in
an
ocean
of
silence.
Awkward to the Max
Around
U.G.
we
feel
uncomfortable
inside
our
skin
we're
like
stone
monuments
to
ourselves
so
unnatural
rigid
tense
unyielding
our
smiles
hang

in
space
held
on
by
wooden
heads
long
tubes
of
empty
heaviness
protecting
what?
We
see
him
so
heavenly
alive
flowing
spontaneous
filled
with
quiet
fire
burning
the
edges
of
our
hearts.
What
can

we
do
but
relax?
Found Out
"Don't
think--"
U.G.
tells
us
with
a
straight
look--
"I
just
got
off
the
turnip
truck."
How
can
we
hide
our
vast
ineptitude
from
those

searing
eyes
boring
holes
through
our
story
"why
spend
your
money
learning
the
future
I
see
it
in
your
face.
Besides
you
have
none."
Koan
I
went
to
see
U.G.

and
came
back
disillusioned
with
my
life.
Now
I
can't
go
back
to
U.G.
and
who's
left
to
go
forward?
Beyond Measure
U.G.
really
is
an
elusive
fish--
not
tied
to

a
framework.
How
can
we
possibly
catch
him?
No
tradition
can
hold
him--
where's
the
reference
point
from
which
to
trap
him?
Even
Zen
Masters
are
at
least
Zennists--
Samadhists
believe
in Samadhi--
mystics
are

mystical.
But
where
is
U.G.?
The
closer
we
look
the
less
he's
there.
Faster
than
speeding
thought.
How
will
we
ever
get
a
net
over
this
one?
Yet
his
freedom
disturbs
us
not
enough

for
us
to
want
what
he
hasn't.
On the Spot
Too
much
to
lose
with
U.G.
we're
too
dignified
to
relax
around
him
let
our
guards
down
besides
what
difference
will
it

make?
Nothing
is
happening
here
anyway
or
is
it?
Why
should
we
let
go
risk
all
for
what?
Supposing
it
all
can
change?
How
can
we
afford
not
to?
Secret Shredder

We
bring
our
oh
so
carefully-
guarded
secrets
to
U.G.
expecting
him
to
condone
them
or
condemn
them
instead
he
merely
erases
them
with
a
soft
smile.
"Sunyata"
Like
a

splinter
in
the
finger
U.G.
unsettles
our
peace.
He
annoys
our
unhappiness.
He
bores
holes
in
our
non-arrival.
"All
you
have
are
solutions.
Why
are
you
so
fond
of
your answers?
Dump
them!"
But
without

my
family,
my
friends,
my
spiritual
path,
my
teachers,
my
convictions--
What
will
be
left?
How Could So Mischievous a Person Become Free?
Saints
we
understand
deep prayers
we
can
accept
angelic
beings
we
can
at
least
tolerate

but
someone
so
obviously
cynical
and
making
fun
of
us
all
the
time--
he's
the
Realized
One?
Oy veh!
Beware
U.G.
might
just
track
you
down
like
a
cruise
missile.
Call

you
or
show up
at
your
doorstep
then
what?
Then
all
the
neatly
assembled
pieces
of
your
life
will
shatter
into
Joy.
Disappearing Act
There's
nothing
like
U.G.'s
Love.
It dissolvs
everything
around

It.
Then
It
dissolves
Itself.
U.G.: Man with No Title
We
go
to
see
U.G.
because
who
else
is there?
Why
go
anywhere
where
we
know
what
we
will
get
when
we
get
there?
With

U.G.
we
only
know
it
will
be
a
surprise.
We
know
we'll
lose
what
we
want
anyway.
It
will
be
an
anguish
of
Joy
so
how
could
we
possibly
not
go.
Plane,
car,
bus,

train
what
difference
the
speed
time
distance
or
way
across
an
ocean
or
a
street--
Just
so
we
get
there,
see
U.G.,
have
all
our
plans
upset
thrown
asunder
and
feel
that
Joyous
dread

in
the
pit
of
our
stomach.
Not Just Inside His Skin
He's
everywhere.
When
we
see
a
friend
is
it
really
him?
Has
U.G.
suddenly
slipped in
again?
When
we
call
U.G.
who's
doing
the

calling
us
or
him?
When
someone
comes
to
us
from
U.G.
are
they
themselves
or
vehicles
for
him?
It's
said:
great
yogis
can
manifest
three
bodies.
U.G.
not
limited
to
yoga
how many
are
possible?

Bodies
beyond
number
beyond
measure.
No
bottom
here.
No
end
to
this
one.
He
goes
on
and
on
and
on.
How
could
he
possibly
stop?
Who's
that
walking
on
the
water?
Blurred
boundaries?
When

U.G.
eats
are
we
still
hungry?
Who's
that
next
to
us
right
now
breathing
down
our
spiritual
necks
looking
out
at
us
from
our
third
eye?
Ah,
U.G.
"Nirvakalpa" Heart
U.G.'s

Love
is
an
ocean
quit
learning
life-saving
techniques
better
we
learn
how
to
drown.
Desolate
My
friend
U.G.
is
gone
but
not
for
good
he'll
be
back
and
the
heart

pounding
joy
will
begin
again.
How
can
one
person
hit
us
so
hard
shatter
our
foundation
at
the
root
leave
us
gasping
for
breath
but,
Oh,
more
more
more.
Less
than
U.G.
cannot
satisfy

us.
U.G.-itis
I've
got
a
hole
in
my
soul
my
skin
is
threatening
to
jump
out
of
my
body
I
no
longer
fit
in
anywhere
I'm
burning up
with
dissatisfaction
my

heart
aches
quakes
shakes
the
only
cure
is
U.G.
who
says
it
has
to
get
much
worse
before
I'll
be
brave
enough
to
let go
my
fear.
U.G. Is My Sponsor
Hi
I'm
Larry

I'm a spiritual glutton
"Hi Larry"
I've
been
wandering
on
the
path
for
a
long
long
long
time.
I
crave
yogis
swamis
lamas
and
various
assorted
gurus.
I
flock
to
see
the
masters
mystics
seers
and
great
sages

of
the
ages.
My
pulse
throbs
my
head
aches
my
knees
buckle
when
in
the
presence
of
teachers
of
the
unseen
mysteries:
New Agers
New Thoughters
No Thoughters
relationists
absolutists
just
so
they're
burning
with
fervor
and

speak
with
the
E.F. Hutton voice.
U.G.
breaks
the
spell
of
my
Guru-itis
grounds
me
in
ordinary
life
a
little gossip
a
joke
a
burst
of
unholy
laughter
pokes
holes
in
my
mystical
longing.
One
soft
word

from
that
quiet
voice
pierces
my
heart
beyond
any
Zen
Master.
One
glance
from
those
darting
eyes
floods
me
with
Love
beyond
any
method
any
path.
Keep
coming
back.
It
works.

U.G.'s Anger
Cuts
to
the
bone
sears
burns
and cauterizes
our
wounded
ego.
We
would
like
him
to
see
who
we're
not
instead
he
sees
us
dismissing
the false
self
with
a
flick
of
a
glance
only

the
Real
Thing
interests
him.
Too
bad
we're
so
far
away
from
that.
U.G. Free
Listening
to
the
description
of
a
free
man--
why
listen
anymore
to
just
words
I
am

the
freedom
being
explained.
How
can
you
explain
me?
If
you
can't
see
me
there's
something
wrong
with
your
eyes.
You
want
my
Freedom?
This
Freedom
only
exists
where
you
leave
off.
Come
to

the
end
of
you
and
find
me
there.
The Investigation
We
went
to
see
U.G.
to
find
out
for
ourselves
if
he
was
really
real.
Instead
we
lost
ourselves.
Now
where's

the
investigator?
Male/Female
U.G.
so
filled
with
stern
assertive
masculine
high-powered
energy
blasts
away
at
our
foibles
and
our
fables...
yet
now
he's
incredibly
soft
yielding
absolutely
feminine
the
love

flowing
from
him
to
us
our
mother
lover
sister
Oh
so
gentle
tender
melting
our
hearts.
How
can
we
resist
this
two
pronged
attack
loving
us
into
wholeness?
Butcher's Heart
U.G.

They
say
you
have
the
heart
of
a
butcher.
Gladly
would
I
lay
myself
before
that
axe:
"Though
He
slay
me,
yet
shall
I
love
Him."
Open-Heart Surgery
Love
discovers
beauty

that
fear
can
never
see.
U.G.
I
am
forever
grateful
that
my
heart
was
not
closed
when
we
met.
I
never
knew
that
this
kind
of
love
was
possible.
No
books
no
teachers
prepared

me.
Thank
God
my
bitterness
at
life's
dissappointments
could
melt
in
your
quick
shining
eyes
a
love
I
could
never
calculate
could
touch
me
beyond
recall.
Random Bliss
U.G.
comes
into

our
life
like
a
thunderbolt
fades
out
like
a
dream.
Was
it
Real
for
you
too?
Did
you
touch
the
stars
taste
God
in
the
white
chocolate?
Why
out
of
all
the
billions
were

we
lucky
enough
to
connect?
Happy Accident
No
one
is
there
to
put
it
all
together.
All
the
King's
horses
all
the
King's
men
can
never
put
U.G.
back
together
Again.

Unwobbling Pivot
Who's
that
man
walking
across
the
water
silencing
the
roar
of
mature
chaos?
Love Enclosed in Skin
Heart
stirring
power
drowning
in
energy
hurtling
into
space
what
manner
of

Man
is
this--
ghostly
haunting
our
nerve
endings.
Fire
igniting
in
our
chests
stripping
the
images
all
away.
Hurrican-Star-Love-Visit
Were
you
there
when
U.G.
came
to
town?
Magic
filled
the

air.
Numberless
Jolts
of
Energy
shocked
us
awake
from
our
humdrum
routine.
How
could
we
take
another
minute
with
him?
Then
he
leaves.
We
are
shattered.
How
could
we
not
be
with
him?
Maybe

we
could
follow--
carry
suitcases
answer
phones
buy
white chocolate (?)
potato chips (?)
anything
we'll
do
anything
not
to
leave
that
love.
Then
we
almost
but
not
quite
forget,
and
suddenly
he's
back--
and
we
drown
again

in
the
Magic.
Prime Time
The
moment
when
the
long
wait
is
over.
U.G.
comes
sailing
across
the
desert
through
the
mountains
to
here.
Nothing
can
stop
him
now.
Love
my

parents
never
could
give.
Truth
my
teachers
never
heard
of.
Peace
nowhere
to
be
found
in
my
meditations.
Freedom
beyond
all
imagining.
U.G.
my
heart
is
yours.
Don't
stop
long
for
gas.

Shook Up
"I'm
coming
in
November
instead
of
the
end
of
September."
How
can
our
hearts
hold
still
that
long?
We
want
to
fly
immediately
to
Switzerland.
Can
we
really
last
till
November
with

this
awful
ambiguity?
We're
neither
here
nor
there
inside
our
lives
or
out.
We
are
swirling
in
the
cosmic
dust
bowl
of
U.G.
We
want
to
be
spun
into
the
stars
if
only
we

don't
have
to
leave
home.
B.U.G.
Before
U.G.
we
were simply
complex
human
struggling
caught
in
the
strangle hold
of
thought
now
after
U.G.
we
are
dazed
wandering
dangling
between
two
worlds

the
bomb
has
been
dropped
we
are
the
mutants.
"Buddy,
you
ain't
got
a
chance."
All
our
so
very
important
purposes
plans
destinations
seem
to
have
dissolved
what
to
do
now
wandering
through
the

void
eating
white
chocolate
we
did
have
a
goal
once
you
remember
don't
you?
And
we
can't
even
take
our
own
dissolution
seriously
stuck
between
not being
and
being
our
heart
aches
for
you
U.G.

come
back
quickly
because
the
love
is
worth
the
dying.
Finish the Job, Quickly
U.G.
since
you
came
into
his
life
there
has
been
no
peace.
All
that
was
familiar
comfortable
has
been

wrenched
away.
He
is
left
dangling
between
who
he
was
then
and
who
he
is
not
yet
now.
Your
grace
has
stripped
him
of
everything.
But
to
all
outer
appearances
he
is
just
fine

the
inner
agony
so
deep
and
unrelenting
only
you
can
see
it
only
you
can
heal
it.
He
is
ready
to
be
taken
out
of
the
picture.
Don't
hesitate
to
fan
the
fire
you

started.
If
the
way
is
only
through
the
flames,
let
the
fire
roar.
The Look
The
first
look
we
got
from
U.G.--
a
swift
glance
so
penetrating
comprehensive
seeing
everything
we

were
are
will be--
in
that
instant
all
changed
forever
for
us
we
can't
go
back
to
who
we
were
before
that
fatal
look.
That
look
is
still
with
us
now
and
will
be
with

us
throughout
all
our
days
the
total
searching
look
fo
the
universe
calling
us
to
destiny.
"Buddy,
you
ain't
got
a
chance."
"The
shortest
rope
and
the
tallest
tree."
"You're
a
goner."
The
look

is
working
its
magic
in
each
one
of
us
right
now
releasing
us
from
the
heavy
bonds
of
this
earthly
life.
One
look
was
all
we
needed
to
strike
eternity
in
our
hearts.

Viral U.G.
Once
he
gets
into
your
system
there's
no
getting
him
out.
"You're
a
goner."
"Find
the
highest
tree
with
the
shortest
rope."
And
we
were
doing
so
well,
really
making
it

in
the
world
just
wanting
a
little
pretend
change
nothing
too
traumatic.
Now
we
can't
get
rid
of
him
he's
everywhere
lurking
behind
our
every
though
stripping
us
to
the
gills
(and
we
thought

we
had
lost
everything).
Happy
contagion
so
we
go
down
kicking
and
screaming.
Still,
it's
Love's
own
feast
gnawing
our
entrails.
Our
bones
may
quake
in
fear
crushed
to
the
limits
of
our
capacity

not
to
let go.
Still
the
joyous
horror
of
this
moment
we
would
not
give up
for
forty
worlds.
How
could
we
possibly
go
back
even
if
we
could
and
we
can't--
no
penicillin
ever
made

can
ever
cure
us
of
this
strange
affliction
loving
us
free.
Trouble at the Center: For Goners Only
U.G.
you
woke
us
from
an
uneasy
sleep.
Now
we
don't
know
what
to
do
with
our
heads

in
Albuquerque
Monterey
Mill Valley
New York
Chicago
Bangalore
Bombay
and
our
hearts
with
you.
If
only
you
hadn't
shown up
when
you
did
if
only
we
had
been
a
little
less
open
we
could
still
be

sleeping!
The U.G. Gang
Bhakti-blasted
wiped out
stripped
to
the
core--
we
come
from
all
over
to
be
shredded
in
the
U.G.-
people-
shredder
we
who
have
given
up
the
peace
of
a

secure
premise
stumble
into
U.G.'s
midst
wondering
what's
left
to
lose
aching
with
the
pain
of
our
lost
innocence
till
those
eyes
of
love
catch
us
on
fire,
again.
Truth Serum

After
hanging out
with
U.G.
how
shallow
every
word
coming
from
the
sincerest
of
voices.
No
matter
how
fierce
their
protestations
of
innocence
all
we
can
hear
is
the
hollow
ring
at
the
core.
Once

having
heard
U.G.
only
Love
will
do.
Until He Came
I
used
to
want
more
out
of
life
until
U.G.
came.
Now
I
don't
know
what
more
means
and
I can't
find
my

life.
It
was
here
awhile
ago.
U.G.
you've
knocked
my
socks
off.
I
feel
slam-dunked.
What
happened
to
me?
Did
anything
really
happen?
Why
can't
I
find
the
lost
thread
of
meaning?
Everything
is

just
fine
but
my
purpose
has
been
blown.
I
can't
find
out
why
I'm
doing
anything
anymore.
And
you
won't
help
put
it
all
together
again--
Thank
God.
U.G. Fan Club
Hail

fellow
travelers
down
the
nowhere-
path.
You
there
brothers
and
sisters
in
emptiness
waiting
there
for
nothing
to
happen.
You
there
in
Bangalore
California
New York
Bombay
Amsterdam
Hong Kong
Sidney
Albuquerque even
what
can
we
do,

we
love
him
beyond
all
good
sense.
How
can
you
tell
if
you
are
hooked
by
the
U.G.-
virus?
Have
all
your
paths
dried
up
are
you
going
nowhere
with
dexterity
saving
your
money

for
a
summer
trip
to
Gstaad?
Ready
to
leave
it
all
at
a
moment's
notice?
What
can
we
do,
we
love
him.
Has
kindly
Dr. Death
got
your
number
too?
"Have
a
piece
of
white

chocolate--"
with
utter
gentleness
he
sweeps
clean
our
insides
taking
all
the
sweet
false
away
with
him
smiling
joking
laughing
peeking
at
us
so
softly
from
behind
his
sly
oblivion.
What
can
we
do--

sisters
and
brothers
of
nowhere-
left-
to-
go-
we
love
him.
Walking Dead Man
Happy
Birthday
U.G.
seventy-five
years
old
and
you're
not
even
alive.
When
we
see
you
we
think
we

see
you
but
all
we
see
is
the
memory
of
the
time
you
were--
like
a
star
we
see
that's
already
millions
of
years
away
when
we
see
it--
Who
you
really are
has
already

melted
into
the
pores
of
the
universe
a
long
time
ago.
We
see
you
from
millions
of
light-years
ago
a
glorious
comet
flashing
across
our
minds
scorching
our
hearts
with
yearning
for
the
Light

of
your
awakening.
Happy
Birthday
Jivan-
Mukta.
"Not
Jivan-
Mukta!"
Friend.
What If...
What
if
we
get
the
calamity
and
we
don't
know
it.
Everything
will
be
different
but
we
won't

know
it.
(We
won't
know
if
it's
the
same
either.)
Will
we
like
it?
How
can
we
like
it
when
we
don't
know
we're
in
it?
But
there
is
some
pay
off,
right?
(We

just
won't
know
we
are
getting
it.)
Still,
calamity
is
better
than
no
calamity,
isn't
it?
Come
on,
U.G.
tell
us!
(And
he
won't
say
a
word.)
Almost Wanting Enlightenment
U.G.
we

love
you
we
want
to
be
with
you
we
want
to
feel
your
peace
your
joy
your
incredible
freedom
we
want
what
you
have
we
just
don't
want
what
you
are.
Not
that!--
the

end
of
us!
Waking
death
No
more
me!
We
like
being
with
you
just
so
we
don't
have
to
die.
We're
willing
for
others
to
die
just
not
us.
We're
even
willing
to
die

ourselves
someday
just
not
now.
Now
we
like
being
with
you
so
please
don't
kill
us
off
at
least
not
yet.
Splintered
The
moment
you
touched
me
I
fell
apart.

Now
I
pretend
to
live
as
if
I'm
still
whole
and
functional
I'm
doing
something
real
in
the
world.
But
underneath
deep
inside
I'm
lost.
Only
your
love
holds
me
together.
A
dream
of

you
is
more
real
than
all
the
people
in
my
world.
Since
there's
nothing
left
but
you
and
you
aren't
here
where
am
I?
Whether
you
pick
up
the
pieces
or
not,
this
Humpty

Dumpty
will
always
love
you.
U.G.'s Miracle
The
Zen
Master's
miracle
is
when
he
is
hungry
he
eats
thirsty
he
drinks
U.G.'s
miracle
is
that
he
is.
He's
outside
of
the

world
so
no
ups
or
downs
for
him.
He
goes
to
the
shopping
mall
instead
of
the
great
mountain.
Where
is
not
Heaven
for
him?
He
hangs
out
with
losers
like
us.
Who
is

not
holy
to
him?
He
eats
canned
tomatoes
and
drinks
whole
cream.
What
are
preservatives
and
cholesterol
to
him?
He
prefers
Las Vegas
to
the
Grand Canyon
or
even
Sedona:
the
vortices
are
small
dots
of

insignificance
before
his
imperious
presence.
The
Canyon
"just
a
big
hole."
The
whole
earth
itself
with
all
its
power
pomp
and
circumstance
is
just
a
speck
of
dust
in
the
eternity
of
U.G.'s
flashing

eyes.
God's Hit Man
The
one
mistake
we
can
make
is
when
we
underestimate
U.G.
We
think
he
is
just
a
kindly
blaster
who
only
wants
to
remove
our
defects
so
that

we
get
on
with
making
it
big
in
the
world.
But
he's
not
kidding
buddy.
He's
not
here
to
gently
shrink
our
ego.
He's
come
to
kill
us
off.
He's
the
cosmic
assassin
come

to
take
it
all
away.
Don't
even
hope
for
a
tiny
drop
of
you
to
be
left.
So
we
meet
U.G.
when
our
time
is
up.
U.G.
is
a
vast
furnace
of
Love
in

which
we
are
melting.
We measure
the
walls,
we
note
the
time,
we
gauge
our
"progress",
we
confer
on
the
heat
as
we
sink
into
oblivion.
Ion Man
Whatever
you
throw
at

U.G.
he
evaporates
throw
your
questions
throw
your
fears
doubts
worries
hopes
your
plans
for
the
future
throw
your
loves
attachments
he
doesn't
blink
man
he
dissolves
it
all
Oh
well
you
finally
throw

yourself.
On Fire with the Fire Of Fire
Fire
can't
burn
itself.
Out
of
the
smoldering
ashes
of
his
calamity
comes
U.G.
Burning
embers
his
eyes
poke
holes
in
our
embarassment
at
being
not
someone
else.

If
only
we
were
better
more
comfortable
inside
our
skin
we
wouldn't
mind
(we think)
U.G.'s fiery
glance.
We
are
so
afraid
that
he
will
discover
how
little
we
are
and
we
try
so
hard
to

look
like
we
have
it
together
but
the
fire
has
already
consumed
us.
We're
only
smoke
forgetting
to
evaporate
because
we
hope
something
more
will
come.
What a Friend We Have in U.G.
Oh
God
if

U.G.
doesn't
come
soon
or
at
least
call
I
think
I'll
die
even
if
I
don't
die
you
call
this
living
suspended
between
two
worlds
pretending
to
goals
no
longer
mine
too
chicken
to

drop
everything
and
be
swallowed
into
the
void
U.G.
come
dissolve
the
space
between
us
once
more
until
there
is
nothing
left
but
you
and
then
you
dissolve.
Don't Gamble
U.G.

says
"We
gamble
with
our
lives,
that's
enough."
When
will
we
find
the
place
of
peace
in
this
life?
U.G.
how
long
before
our
goose
is
cooked
enough?
Some
of
us
die
while
waiting

to
Die.
"We'll
all
be
enlightened
two
seconds
before
the
end."
Why
can't
we
not
mind
the
pain
of
not
being
There
yet?
With U.G.
"No
one
is
insignificant
no
one

is
special.
Everyone
is
on
the
spot.
Everything
is
up
in
the
air."
How
could
it
be
otherwise?
U.G.
brings
us
to
ourselves.
We
can't
not
be
aware
when
we
are
with
him.
Sleepwalking

normal
reality
is
OK
for
a while
but
how
we
long
to
feel
that
sharp
awakening
in
our
bones
when
we
are
with
him!
Useless Guy
Of
what
good
is
U.G.?
He

never
pats
our
ego.
He
never
says
what
we
want
to
hear.
He
always
interrupts
our
fantasy
of
getting
better.
What
a
guy!
He
never
comforts
our
despair
or
commiserates
with
our
misery.
He

never
turns
a
blind
eye
to
our
weakness.
So
of
what
use
is
this
guy
to
us?
Yet
for
one
minute
with
him
we
would
turn
our
backs
on
paradise.
Gucci Shoes

U.G.
slam-dunks
the
old
Gucci
shoes
in
the
garbage
bin
in
Central
Park.
"But
they
cost
$200."
"Someone
will
find
them."
Imagine:
an
old
wandering
derelict
shambles
up
to
the
garbage
bin
peers
inside

grabs
the
shoes
puts
them
on
dances
up
into
the
sky.
Lord of the Cosmos
U.G.
walking
through
the
Monterey
Airport
surveying
his
domain
owner
of
the
universe
and
everything
in
it--
Loaning

it
out
to
God
for
a while.
The Original Man
A
tiny
tiny
bit
of
unmolested
Energy
let
loose
inside
wreaking
Joyous
havoc
everywhere.
Swami Without a Robe
The
Universe
is
your
Ashram

the
planet
your
Stupa
Humanity
your
adherents
Truth
your
God
Love
your
being
Dissolving
your
teaching
Nothing
your
self
as
you
melt
into
it
all.
Dilemma
We
live
like
ants

fulfilling
purposes
not
our
own.
Then
one
day
we
meet
U.G.
and
the
myth
of
our
inner
clarity
explodes.
While
we
pick
up
the
pieces
which
no
longer
fit
together
we
wonder:
how
could

we
not
want
to
live
with
that
Love
so
at
cross-direction
from
everything
we
know?
U.G.: Unlikely Holy Man
Not
holy,
Not
a man?
He looks
like
my
grandmother
sometimes.
He
was
a
rascal
as

a
child.
He's
still
a
rascal.
He
wants
to
steal
our
self-importance
from
us.
All
that
he'll
give
in
return
is
the
Real.
But
what
we
want
is
to
feel
very
good
about
our

illusions.
U.G.
doesn't
play
fair.
After
all,
our
illusions
are
more
profound
at
a
deeper
level
and
have
been
certified
by
people-in-th-know.
So
why
does
U.G.
dismiss
them
(and
us
too!)
in
one
quick

glance?
U.G. Dance
I
wanted
this
time
to
tell
you
how
glad
I
am
to
be
with
you
but
the
words
never
came.
I
know
when
we
speak
heart
to
heart

there
is
no
need
of
words.
Sometimes
I
feel
so
totally
with
you
that
there
are
no
others
but
us
in
the
universe.
Sometimes
I
feel
so
far
away
that
even
with
you
in

the
same
room
sitting
next
to
me
the
vast
abyss
between
us
will
never
let
me
enter.
Sometimes
my
heart
burns
in
the
fire
of
your
love.
Sometimes
it's
all
ashes
and
I
can't

find
you
anywhere
inside
or
out.
Yet
Resting in Our Non-Arrival
The purpose
of
the
dance
is the dance.
We learn
from
U.G.
by
staying
away
from
U.G.
"They got what they came for."
Now they go home.
We all get
what we come for.
We all go home.
What did we get?
No more mind.
So we don't mind
no more.

Let
that
No mind
be in
you.
Word-Bullet -- II
"I
hold
the
words
out
maybe
who
knows
you'll
get
hit
by
one
or
two"
Maybe
one
word
hitting
just
right
worth
a
lifetime

of
Nothing
happening
No
matter
how
hard
we
try
Maybe
that
word
will
sneak
past
all
the
guards
Touch
our
hearts
beyond
reckoning
Pull
us
into
Life.
"Neti Neti"
U.G.
breaks

the
contact
with
our
pain
but
breaks
the
contact
with
our
pleasure
too.
Where
are
we
without
pleasure
without
pain
and
not
liberated
either
and
every
move
we
make
is
false
leading
us
further

astray
and
then
he
leaves!
While Waiting for Calamity
What
to
do
until
IT
strikes:
telemarketing
waiting tables
teaching
preaching
or malling
or just
hanging out
white chocolate
dribbling
at
the
corners
of
the
mouth
a
give away.
We

can
be
spotted
almost
anywhere
tap-
dancing
in
the
void
pretending
our
lives
are working
for
the
inevitable
doom
machine
to
push
the
button
that
has
our
name.

U.G. AND LARRY (Courtesy of Julie Thayer)
About the Author
Larry Morris has a Ph. D in English from the University of New Mexico, in the area of spiritual and mystical
literature. For a while he taught at Eastern New Mexico University, University of New Mexico and Albuquerque
Technical Vocational Institute. He was ordained at the Brooks Divinity School in Denver and has been a
minister, along with Susan Nettleton, at the Hillside Community Church in Albuquerque since 1982.

BlogThis!
THE DRAWINGS OF U.G. KRISHNAMURTI
DRAWINGS AND COMMENTARY COURTESY LOUIS BRAWLEY
About Me
Name:
Peter Maverick
View my complete profile
Previous Posts
q LOUIS BRAWLEY AND UG KRISHNAMURTI (Courtesy of Ju...
q THE DRAWINGS WERE MADE BY UG STARTING IN JANUARY ...
q IN JANUARY OF 2005 UG RETURNED TO EUROPE AFTER TW...
q I THINK THIS IS THE SECOND DRAWING UG MADE IN BAV...
q UG WAS WATCHING ME ON THE COUCH DRAWING SPIRALS. ...
q AFTER HE HAD MADE A COUPLE OF DRAWINGS I ASKED UG...
q THIS WAS MAYBE UG'S THIRD DRAWING OF ME. ORIGINAL...
q THIS IS THE ONLY FULL LENGTH PORTRAIT UG DREW OF ...
q THIS IS ONE OF TWO DRAWINGS DONE BY UG ON A NAPKI...
q THIS IS THE DRAWING FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NA...
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q THE NATURAL STATE
q STOPPED IN OUR TRACKS
July 9, 2005
LOUIS BRAWLEY AND UG KRISHNAMURTI (Courtesy of Julie Thayer)
1 comments

THE DRAWINGS WERE MADE BY UG STARTING IN JANUARY 2005 IN BAVENO, ITALY, THEN AGAIN IN
SWITZERLAND ALSO IN JANUARY. FINALLY IN MARCH OF 2005, SOME DRAWINGS WERE DONE IN PALM
SPRINGS. SOME OTHER DRAWINGS MAY HAVE BEEN LOST ALONG THE WAY BUT THIS IS UNLIKELY AS THE
WORK IS CLOSELY MONITORED AND HIGHLY COLLECTIBLE! THIS WORK REPRESENTS A NEW PHASE OF
ACTIVITY IN THE UNPREDICTABLE LIFE OF A GREAT UNKNOWABLE SAGE.
0 comments

IN JANUARY OF 2005 UG RETURNED TO EUROPE AFTER TWO AND A HALF MONTHS OF INTENSE TALKING IN
THE LIVINGROOM OF SUGUNA AND CHANDRASEKHAR IN BANGALORE, INDIA. I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO FLY
BACK WITH HIM AND CONTINUE ON TO BAVENO, ITALY WHERE HE STAYS ALONG THE LARGO MAJORE AT
THE RESIDENCE DEI PIORI IN THE AZELIA SUITE. I WOULD SIT NEXT TO HIM ON THE COUCH AND TRY TO
WRITE OR SKETCH IN A NOTEBOOK WHEN HE WASN'T HITTING, KICKING OR SPLASHING ME WITH HOT
WATER. ONE DAY I ASKED HIM TO MAKE A DRAWING AND TO MY SURPRISE HE ASKED FOR A PIECE OF
PAPER AND STARTED TO DRAW. HE SAID THAT WHEN HE WAS STUDYING BOTANY HE USED TO DRAW
PLANTS. HE WONDERED OUT LOUD IF HE COULD STILL DRAW. HE HANDLES A PEN WITH STYLE AND THE
LOOSE QUALITY OF HIS LINES IS REALLY NICE.
0 comments

I THINK THIS IS THE SECOND DRAWING UG MADE IN BAVENO. HE STARTED WITH THE FLOWER. SINCE I
WAS SITTING NEXT TO HIM HE DECIDED TO DRAW ME. HE HANDLED THE PEN WITH A FLOURISH AND
OFFHAND CONCENTRATION. WHY THE LINE ACROSS THE FOREHEAD? WHAT IS THE LINE DOWN THE CHEST?
ODDLY IT'S ALMOST AS IF HE WAS DRAWING SOME ASPECT OF HIMSELF.
0 comments

UG WAS WATCHING ME ON THE COUCH DRAWING SPIRALS. HE KEPT ASKING WHAT I WAS DOING SO I
WOULD ASK HIM TO MAKE ANOTHER DRAWING. I THINK HE LIKED TO DRAW ME BECAUSE OF MY BALD
HEAD (WHICH HE ALSO LIKED TO HIT ALL THE TIME). HE WOULD MAKE FUN OF MY INABILITY TO MAKE
MONEY AS AN ARTIST. IN THIS DRAWING HE MADE THE ARC FIRST, THEN THE FLOWER, THEN A PORTRAIT
OF ME IN MY NOW GREEN STRIPED SHIRT WITH A THIRD EYE ON MY FOREHEAD. NICE TOUCH
0 comments

AFTER HE HAD MADE A COUPLE OF DRAWINGS I ASKED UG IF HE WOULD MAKE A SELF PORTRAIT. HE TOOK
A FRESH PIECE OF PAPER AND THE NOTEBOOK, PROPPING THEM ON HIS KNEES HE WORKED AT THIS ONE
PRETTY INTENSELY. WHEN HE FINISHED WE ALL TRIED TO FIGURE OUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE POSE. I
SAW THE BOY ON THE BACK COVER OF THE BOOK HE USED TO DRAW ON AND REALIZED HE HAD COPIED
THIS. HIS INVENTION WAS TO ADD THE LEGS WITH BIG SIDE POCKETS LIKE THE ONES ON MY CARGO
PANTS. AT ANOTHER TIME HE SAID HE CANNOT DRAW HIMSELF BECAUSE HE HAS NO IMAGE OF THAT. "THE
ONLY THING THAT EXISTS FOR ME IS THE OBJECT." WHILE HE WAS LOOKING AT THIS BOOK COVER, THAT
WAS HIM.
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THIS WAS MAYBE UG'S THIRD DRAWING OF ME. ORIGINALLY THE FACE HAD NO EYEBROWS SO I ASKED HIM
TO ADD THEM. A BLUE PEN WAS USED (UG HAD BEEN STRUGGLING WITH THE INK FLOW ON THE FOUNTAIN
PEN SO WE GAVE HIM A BALL POINT TO PUT THE FINISHING TOUCHES ON). THE TITLE AND TEXT WERE
ADDED BY ME AS DICTATED BY HIM: PRETENTIOUS BASTARD WHO HAS NO TALENT OF ANY KIND TO MAKE
LOADS OF MONEY TO LIVE THE LIFE OF A REILLY. AND YET HE IS LIVING A FALSE LIFE GIVING THE
IMPRESSION THAT HE IS HIDING LOADS OF MONEY STACKED IN A MATTRESS AND WHEN FOUND IT NEVER
WAS THERE INSTEAD OF ADMITTING THE FACT HE HAS NO TALENT AS AN ARTIST TO MAKE MONEY OF ANY
KIND. THE BRAGGING AND FALSE LIFE HE IS LIVING WILL HURT THE FEELINGS OF HIS BEST FRIENDS. AND
THEY ARE SO HELPLESS TO HELP HIM OUT AND LIVE A SANE AND INTELLIGENT LIFE FROM NOW ON.
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THIS IS THE ONLY FULL LENGTH PORTRAIT UG DREW OF ME. IT WAS THE LAST DRAWING HE DID IN
BAVENO. NOTE THE PROMINENT NAVEL. WE ALL WONDERED WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT. ALSO THERE ARE
THOSE BIG SIDE POCKETS AGAIN. HE KEPT ON CHECKING THEM TO SEE IF MY WALLET WAS IN THERE...
SADLY THOSE POCKETS ARE EMPTY.
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THIS IS ONE OF TWO DRAWINGS DONE BY UG ON A NAPKIN IN GRUYERE AT A COFFEE SHOP. HE WAS IN A
FIESTY MOOD AND GRABBED A PEN FROM ME AND STARTED. THE QUESTION MARKS THAT FLOAT ABOVE
THE FLOWER ARE A BEAUTIFUL TOUCH. WHAT IS THAT PERFUME? THIS IS THE REAL SELF PORTRAIT OF UG.
THE DAY HE MADE THIS DRAWING WE HAD DRIVEN HIM TO THE DOOR OF THE CAFE SINCE IT WAS SO COLD
OUTSIDE AND HE STILL LOOKED A LITTLE FRAIL FROM INDIA. HE SENSED OUR HOVERING CONCERN AND
GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WALKED ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE QUAINT LITTLE FEUDAL
TOWN IN THE SNOW AND ICE TO LOOK AT THE EXCHANGE RATES. SO MUCH FOR OUR TRYING TO HELP, TO
PROTECT HIM FROM THE ELEMENTS. THIS HE CANNOT STAND.
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THIS IS THE DRAWING FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NAPKIN IN GRUYERE. HE SAID IT IS A PICTURE OF
ME AND MY "SUPPOSED GIRLFRIEND." HE HAD WARMED UP DRAWING THE FLOWER. WHILE HE WAS
DRAWING, KARA AND LISA TOOK A COUPLE OF PHOTOGRAPHS. HE REALLY LOOKED LIKE HE WAS HAVING
FUN. HE GRINNED WIDELY WHEN WE NOTICED HER "BOUNCING BREASTS." MUCH LATER I WAS TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING BETWEEN THE TWO CHARACTERS. I ASKED HIM AND HE SAID "SHE IS
HITTING HIM."
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THIS IS A DRAWING THAT STARTED OUT AS A SELF PORTRAIT (SEE THE LINE ON THE RIGHT). UG STOPPED
AND SAID "I CANNOT DRAW MYSTELF. I HAVE NO IMAGE OF THAT." INSTEAD HE DREW THE FLOWER
QUICKLY IN BIG SWEEPING LINES. IT REALLY FLOATS. IT WAS DONE IN PALM SPRINGS AT DAVID AND
MARIA'S HOUSE.
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A PICASSO-LIKE FIGURE, AGAIN, SUPPOSED TO BE OF ME. I LIKE THE MULTIPLE ARMS. IT WAS DONE
PRETTY QUICKLY. ALSO FROM PALM SPRINGS.
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THIS IS ANOTHER DRAWING UG MADE IN PALM SPRINGS IN MARCH 2005. HE WAS VISITING THE MALLADI
FAMILY WITH THE TWO NEWBORN BABIES AND SANDHYA THE GRANDDAUGHTER. SANDHYA HAD BEEN
DRAWING WITH A SPARKLE-GLUE PEN TOY. THERE WAS NO PAPER LEFT AND UG WANTED TO DRAW SO WE
GRABBED A PAPER TOWEL FOR HIM.
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I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE THIS WAS DONE BUT I'LL BET IT WAS SOAKED BY SOME VERY HOT WATER
THROWN AT ME BY UG.
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UG KRISHNAMURTI (Courtesy of Julie Thayer)
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BlogThis!
CONVERSATIONS WITH U.G.
KRISHNAMURTI
COMPILED BY MAHESH BHATT
q TALK
q POEMS
q DRAWINGS
q THE NATURAL STATE
q STOPPED IN OUR TRACKS
Thursday, July 07, 2005

U.G. Krishnamurti (Courtesy Julie Thayer)

MAHESH AND U.G. (Courtesy of Julie Thayer)
*Behind the changes in nature there seems to be some kind of plan or
purpose, don't you think?
I don't see any plan or scheme there at all! There is a process--I wouldn't
necessarily call it evolution--but when it slows down then a revolution
takes place. Nature tries to put something together and start all over again,
just for the sake of creating. This is the only true creativity. Nature uses no
models or precedents and so has nothing to do with art per se.
*Do you mean to say there is nothing to the creativity of artists, poets,
musicians and sculptors?

Why do you want to place art on a higher level than craft? If there is no
market for an artist's creation, he will be out of business. It is the market
that is responsible for all these so-called artistic beliefs. An artist is a
craftsman like any other craftsman. He uses that tool to express himself. All
human creation is born out of sensuality. I have nothing against sensuality.
All art is a pleasure movement. Even that (the pleasure) has to be cultivated
by you. Otherwise you have no way of appreciating the beauty and art that
artists are talking about. If you question their creation, they feel superior,
thinking that you don't have taste. Then they want you to go to a school to
learn how to appreciate their art. If you don't enjoy a poem written by a so-
called great poet, they forcibly educate you to appreciated poetry. That is
all that they are doing in the educational institutions. They teach us how to
appreciate beauty, how to appreciate music, how to appreciate painting and
so on. Meanwhile they make a living off you. Artists find it comforting to
think that they are creative: 'creative art', 'creative ideas', 'creative politics'.
It's nonsense. There is nothing really creative in them in the sense of their
doing anything original, new or free. Artists pick something here and
something there, put it together and think they have created something
marvelous. They are all imitating something that is already there. Imitation
and style are the only 'creativity' we have. Each of us has our own style
according to the school we attended, the language we were taught, the
books we have read, the examinations we have taken. And within that
framework again we have our own style. Perfecting style and technique is
all that operates there. You will be surprised that one of these days
computers will paint and create music much better than all the painters and
musicians that the world has produced so far. It may not happen in our
lifetime but it will happen. You are no different from a computer. We are
not ready to accept that because we are made to believe that we are not just
machines--that there is something more to us. You have to come to terms
with this and accept that we are machines. The human intellect that we

have developed through education, through all kinds of techniques is no
match for nature. They (creative activities) assume importance because
they have been recognized as expressions of spiritual, artistic and
intellectual values. The drive for self-expression is born out of neurosis.
This applies to the spiritual teachers of mankind too. There is no such thing
as a direct sense-experience. All forms of art are nothing but an expression
of sensuality.
* Is there something more to self-expression U.G.? Having had a
tremendous experience of some kind you want to relate it to somebody or
maybe just replay it to yourself? Is there anything to this overriding need to
express oneself?
There is no such thing as my experience and your experience. When you
experience something you think it is something extraordinary and naturally
the need arises to share that experience with somebody else. When you and
I go out for a walk you naturally look at something that you have not
looked at before and it is something extraordinary for you. And when you
say to yourself this is something extraordinary that you have not seen
before there is a need for you--which is a part of your self fulfillment--to
share that pleasure with somebody else. Whatever you experience has
already been experienced by someone else. Your telling yourself, 'Ah! I am
in a blissful state,' means that someone else before you has experienced that
and has passed it on to you. Whatever may be the nature of the medium
through which you experience, it is a second-hand, third-hand, and last-
hand experience. It is not yours. There is no such thing as your own
experience. Such experiences, however extraordinary, aren't worth
anything.
* We want to know what truth is. We want to know what enlightenment is.
You already know it. Don't tell me that you don't. There is no such thing as

truth at all.
* So, does all this (U.G.'s search and his 'calamity') mean that there was a
certain programming?
If there was, you have to rule out all such things as mutation and radical
transformation. I ruled those out because I didn't find anything there to be
transformed. There was no question of mutation of mind, radical or
otherwise. It is all hogwash. But it is difficult for you to throw all this stuff
out of your system. You can also deny it and brush it aside, but this,
'Maybe there is something to it' lasts for a long time. When once you
stumble into a situation that you can call 'courage' you can throw the entire
past out of yourself. I don't know how this has happened. What has
happened is something which cannot but be called an act of courage
because everything, not only this or that particular teacher you had been
involved with but everything that every man, every person, thought, felt
and experienced before you, is completely flushed out of your system.
What you are left with is the simple thing--the body with extraordinary
intelligence of its own.
When I went to school I studied everything, including Advaita Vedanta.
Vedanta was my special subject for my Masters in Philosophy. Very early
during my studies I arrived at the conclusion that there is no such thing as a
mind at all.
There was a well-known professor of Psychology at the University of
Madras--Dr Bose. Just a month before my final examinations, I went to
him and asked him the question, 'We have studied all these six schools of
Psychology, this, that, and the other, exhaustively, but I don't see in all this
a place for the "mind" at all.' (At that time I used to say that 'Freud is the
stupendous fraud of the twentieth century.' The fact that he has lasted for a
hundred years does not mean anything.) So my problem was that I did not
see any mind. So I asked my professor, 'Is there a mind?' The only honest
fellow that I have met in my life was not any of those holy men but that

professor. He said that if I wanted my Master's degree I should not ask such
uncomfortable questions. He said, 'You will be in trouble. If you want your
postgraduate degree, repeat what you have memorized and you will get a
degree. If you don't want it, you explore the subject on your own.' So I said,
'Good-bye.' I did not take my examination. I was lucky because at that time
I had a lot of money and I told him that I had four times the income of what
he had as professor of Psychology. I told him that I could survive with all
this money and walked out of the whole business.
But my suspicion (about the mind) persisted for a long time. You see, you
cannot be free from all this so easily. You get a feeling 'Maybe the chap
(whoever is talking about the mind) knows what he is talking about. He
must have something.' Looking back, the whole thing was a stupendous
hoax. I told J. Krishnamurti that he was a stupendous hoax of the twentieth
century along with Freud. I told him, 'You see, you have not freed yourself
from this whole idea of messiahs and Theosophy.' He could not emerge
clean from the whole thing.
If you think that he is the greatest teacher of the twentieth century, all right,
go ahead. You are not going to have all these transformations, radical or
otherwise. Not because I know your future but because there is nothing
there to be transformed, really nothing. If you think there is and think that
plums will fall into your stretched palm, good luck to you. What is the
point of my telling you this? There is no such thing as enlightenment. So
whether Rajneesh was enlightened or someone else is enlightened is
irrelevant. It is you who assumes that somebody is, whoever he is. Good
luck to you! Somebody coming and telling me, 'That I am', is a big joke.
There is nothing to this whole nonsense. I have heard that there is a course
in the United States: if you want enlightenment in twenty-four hours they
charge you one thousand dollars and if you want it within a week, five
hundred dollars and so on.
*So you say that the mind doesn't exist. What does exist?

This (pointing to himself) is just a computer.
* What difference does it make whether you call it a computer or the mind?
If you want to use that word, it is fine with me. The mind is (not that I am
giving a new definition) the totality of man's experiences, thoughts and
feelings. There is no such thing as your mind or my mind. I have no
objection if you want to call that totality of man's thoughts, feelings and
experiences by the name 'mind'. But how they are transmitted to us from
generation to generation is the question. Is it through the medium of
knowledge or is there any other way, say for example, through the genes?
We don't have the answers yet. Then we come to the idea of memory. What
is man? Man is memory. What is that memory? Is it something more than
just to remember, to recall a specific thing at a specific time? To all this we
have to have some more answers. How do the neurons operate in the brain?
Is it all in one area?
The other day I was talking to a neurosurgeon, a very young and bright
fellow. He said that memory, or rather the neurons containing memory, are
not in one area. The eye, the ear, the nose, all the five sensory organs in
your body have a different sort of memory. But they don't yet know for
sure. So we have to get more answers. As I see it, everything is genetically
controlled. That means you don't have any freedom of action. This is not
what we have been taught in India--the fatalistic philosophy. When you say
that there is no freedom of action, it means that you have no way of acting
except through the help of the knowledge that is passed on to you. It is in
that sense, I said, no action is possible without thought. Any action that is
born out of thought which belongs to the totality of knowledge is a
protective mechanism. It is protecting itself. It is a self-perpetuating
mechanism. You are using it all the time. Every time you experience
anything through the help of that knowledge, the knowledge is further
strengthened and fortified. So every time you experience greed and

condemn it you are adding to its momentum. You are not dealing with the
actual greed, anger or desire. You are only interested in using them. Take,
for example, desirelessness. You want to be free from desire. But you are
not dealing with desire--only with the idea of 'how to be free from desire.'
You are not dealing with something that is existing there. Whatever is there
or happening there cannot be false. You may not like it and may condemn
it because it doesn't fit into your social framework. The actions born out of
desire may not fall into the society's framework which accepts certain
actions and rejects others as antisocial. But you are concerned only about
values. You are concerned about grappling with or fighting that which you
condemn. Such a concern is born out of culture, society, norms or
whatever. The norms are false and they are falsifying you....
*Say there are two cities and a river in the middle. These two cities have to
communicate and we have to build a bridge.
Yes, you already have the technical know-how.
*No. We don't.
Someone else can give it to you.
*Suppose no one gives it?
Then, you don't bother about that. We don't discuss hypothetical situations.
Who the original man was, how he got this idea--whether it was by trial
and error--we don't bother about all that. The demand to cross over to the
other side because there is a rich land... there is a kind of drive--the drive
for survival. That drive is an extension of this survival mechanism that
already exists in nature. You don't have to teach dogs, cats, pigs and other
wild animals how to search for food, how to eat and survive. All our
activity is nothing but an extension of the same survival mechanism. But in
this process we have succeeded in sharpening that instrument. With the

help of that instrument we are able to create everything that we are so
proud of--progress, this, that and the other. You may be able to put this
record player together and take it apart. This kind of knowledge can be
transmitted from one person to another. But the problems which we are
interested in solving--the day-to-day problems, living with someone else or
living in this world--are the living problems. They are different every time.
We would like to treat them on a par with mechanical problems and use
that knowledge and experience (coming from dealing with the mechanical
problems) to resolve problems of living. But it doesn't seem to work that
way. We cannot pass these experiences on to others. It doesn't help. Your
own experiences don't always help you. You tell yourself, for example, 'If I
had this experience ten years ago, my life would have been different.' But
ten years hence you will be telling yourself exactly the same thing, 'If I had
this experience ten years ago....' But we are now at this point and your past
experiences cannot help you to resolve your problems. The learning
concerning mechanical problems is useful only in that area and not in any
other. But in the area of life we don't learn anything. We simply impose our
mechanical knowledge on the coming generations and destroy the
possibility of their dealing with their problems in their own way.
The other day I met somebody, a leader. He had come straight from some
university. He said, 'We have to help the coming generation.' He said that
the future belongs to the young generation. I told him, 'What the hell are
you talking about? Why do you want them to prepare to face their future?
We have made a mess of this world so far and you want to pass this mess
on to the younger generation. Leave them alone. If they make a mess of the
whole thing, they will pay the price. Why is it your problem today? They
are more intelligent than us.' Our children are more intelligent than us. First
of all, we are not ready to face that situation. So we force them into this
mold. But it doesn't help them.
The living organism and thought are two different things. Thought cannot
conceive of the possibility of anything happening outside the field of time.

I don't want to discuss time in a metaphysical sense. By time I mean
yesterday, tomorrow and the day after. The instrument which has produced
tremendous results in this area is unable to solve problems in the area of
living. We use this instrument to achieve material results. We also apply
the same thing to achieve our so-called spiritual goals. It works here but it
doesn't work there. Whether it is materialistic goals or spiritual goals, the
instrument we are using is matter. Therefore, the so-called spiritual goals
are also materialistic in their value and in their results. I don't see any
difference between the two. I haven't found any spirit there. The whole
structure which we have built on the foundation of the assumed 'self' or
'spirit', therefore, collapses.
What is mind? You can give a hundred definitions. It is just a simple
mechanical functioning. The body is responding to stimuli. It is only a
stimulus-responding mechanism. It does not know of any other action. But
through the translation of stimulus in terms of human values, we have
destroyed the sensitivity of the living organism. You may talk of the
sensitivity of the mind and the sensitivity of your feeling towards your
fellow beings. But it doesn't mean a thing.
*But there must be some sensitivity without a stimulus.
What I am talking about is the sensitivity of sensory perceptions. But what
you are concerned with is sensuality. They are different things. The sensory
activity of the living organism is all that exists. Culture has superimposed
on it something else which is always in the field of sensuality. Whether it is
a spiritual experience or any other experience, it is in the field of pleasure.
So the demand for permanence is really the problem. The moment a
sensation is translated as a pleasurable one there is already a problem. The
translation is possible only through the help of knowledge. But the body
rejects both pain and pleasure for the simple reason that any sensation that
lasts longer than its natural duration is destroying the sensitivity of the
nervous system. But we are interested only in the sensual aspect of the

sensory activity.
*But we have to understand.
What is there to understand? To understand anything we have to use the
same instrument that is used to understand this mechanical computer that is
there before me. Its workings can be understood through repeatedly trying
to learn or operate it. You try again and again. If it doesn't work, there is
someone who can tell you how to operate it, take it apart and put it
together. You yourself will learn through a repetitive process--how to
change this, improve this, modify this and so on and so forth. This
instrument (thought) which we have been using to understand has not
helped us to understand anything except that every time we are using it we
are sharpening it. Someone asked me, 'What is Philosophy? How does it
help me in my day-to-day existence?' It doesn't help you in any way except
that it sharpens the intellect. It doesn't in any way help you to understand
life. If that (thought) is not the instrument and if there is no other
instrument then is there anything to understand? 'Intuitive perception' or
'intuitive understanding' is only a product of the same instrument. The
understanding that there is nothing to understand, nothing to get, dawned
on me. I was seriously wanting to understand. Otherwise I would not waste
forty-nine years of my life. But when once this understanding that there is
nothing to understand somehow dawned on me, the very demand to be free
from anything, even from the physical demands, was not there any more.
But how this happened to me I really wouldn't know. So there is no way I
can share this with you because it is not in the area of experiencing things.
* How do you place those people who don't have this burden of trying to
understand life--those who are just existing in the world?
Whether you are interested in moksha, liberation, freedom, transformation,
you name it, or you are interested in happiness without one moment of

unhappiness, pleasure without pain, it's the same thing. Whether one is here
in India or in Russia or in America or anywhere, what people want is to
have one (happiness) without the other (unhappiness). But there is no way
you can have one without the other. This demand is not in the interest of
the survival of this living organism. There is an extraordinarily alert quality
to it (the organism). The body is rejecting all sensations. Sensations have a
limited life; beyond a particular duration the body cannot take them. It is
either throwing them out or absorbing them. Otherwise they destroy the
body. The eyes are interested in seeing things but not as beauty; the ears
hear things but not as music. The body does not reject a noise because it is
the barking of a dog or the braying of an ass. It just responds to the sound.
If you call it a response to the sound, then we get into trouble. So you don't
even know that it is a sound. Anything that is harsh, anything that would
destroy the sensitivity of the nervous system, the body cuts out. It is like a
thermostat. To some extent the body has a way of saving itself from heat,
cold or anything that is inimical to it. It takes care of itself for a short
period and then thought helps you to take the next step to cover yourself or
to move yourself away from the dangerous situation you find yourself in.
You will naturally move away from the cement mixer that is making a loud
noise and is destroying the sensitivity of your nervous system. The fear that
you would be destroyed because the sound is bad or that you will become a
nervous wreck and so on and so forth, is part of your paranoia.
* Since there are no questions, there is no question of answers. Where then
are the questions?
All the questions are born out of the answers. But nobody wants the
answers. The end of the question is the end of the answer. The end of the
solution is the end of the problem. We are only dealing with solutions and
not with the problems.
Actually there are no problems, there are only solutions. But we don't even
have the guts to say that they don't work. Even if you have discovered that

they don't work, sentimentality comes into the picture. The feeling, 'That
man in whom I have placed my confidence and belief cannot con himself
and con everyone else,' comes in the way of throwing the whole thing out
of the window, down the drain. The solutions are still a problem. Actually
there is no problem there. The only problem is in discovering the
inadequacy or uselessness of all the solutions that have been offered to us.
The questions naturally are born out of the assumptions and answers that
we have taken for granted as real answers. But we really don't want any
answers to the questions because an answer to the questions is the end of
the answers. If one answer ends, all the other answers also go. You don't
have to deal with ten different answers. You deal with one question and
that puts an end to the answer. Not that you get an answer. But there will
no questions. Yet I have to accept the reality of the world as it is imposed
on me for purposes of functioning sanely.
*When I visited a place where people who are mentally different are kept....
Mentally different or sick or ill or....
* I would prefer to call them mentally different because they think we are
mentally different and vice versa.
That is true.
* The dividing line is very thin. They may be looking at us as victims.
Really we don't know who is different. But biologically both of us are
functioning....
...exactly the same way....
* ... the same way. What could be the basis for calling them mentally
different?
Because we have established the so-called normal man.

* That's what I am hinting at.
Some people who are in the All India Institute of Mental Health at
Bangalore visited me. One of them is a top neurosurgeon. I asked him the
same question, 'Who is normal? Who is sane and who is insane?' He said,
'Statistically speaking, we are sane.' That was quite satisfactory to me. And
then I asked him, 'Why are you putting all of them there and treating them?
How much help do you give them?' He said, 'Not even two per cent of them
are helped. We send them back to their homes but they keep returning.'
'Then why are you running this show?' I asked him. He said, 'The
government pays the money and the families don't want to keep those
people in their homes.'
So, we now move on from there to the basic question, 'Who is sane and
who is insane?' Sometimes such people come to see me. Even people who
are hardcore cases come to me. But the line of demarcation between them
and me is very thin. The difference seems to be that they have given up,
whereas I am not in conflict with society. I take it. That's all the difference.
There is nothing that prevents me from fitting into the framework of
society. I am not in conflict with society. When once you are--I don't like to
use the word, freed from, or are not trapped in--this duality of right and
wrong, good and bad, you can never do anything bad. As long as you are
caught up in wanting to do only good, you will always do bad. Because the
'good' you seek is only in the future. You will be good some other time and
until then you remain a bad person. So, the so-called insane have given up
and we are doing them the greatest harm and disservice by pushing them to
fit themselves into this framework of ours which is rotten. I don't just say it
is rotten but it is.
I don't fight society. I am not even interested in changing it. The demand to
bring about a change in myself isn't there any more. So, the demand to
change this framework or the world at large isn't there. It is not that I am

indifferent to the suffering man. I suffer with the suffering man and am
happy with the happy man. People seem to get pleasure out of others'
suffering. Why don't they get the same pleasure when they see a rich man
throwing his weight around? They are the same. This you call pleasure and
that you call jealousy or envy. But I don't see any difference between the
two. I see suffering. Individually, there isn't anything that I can do. And at
the same time I don't want to use this (suffering) for my self-
aggrandizement, my self-fulfillment. The problem is there and we are
individually responsible for it. Yet we don't want to accept the
responsibility for creating the problems. The problems are not created by
nature. It is we who have created the problems. There is plenty, there is
bounty in nature; but we take away what rightfully belongs to everybody
and then say that we should give charity. That's too absurd!
The practice of charity, started by the religious man, is what refuses to deal
with the problems squarely. I may give something to a poor man because
he is suffering. But unless I have something more than he has, there is no
way I can help. What do I do if I don't have the means to help him? What
do I do in a situation where I am totally helpless? That helplessness only
makes me sit with him and cry.
* U.G., you say that nature is not concerned with creating a perfect being
but a perfect species. What do you mean by that?
We have for centuries been made to believe that the end product of human
evolution, if there is one, is the creation of perfect beings modeled after the
great spiritual teachers of mankind and their behavior patterns.
* By great spiritual teachers you mean people like Jesus and the Buddha?
All of them. All the great teachers--the occidental and the oriental. That is
the basic problem we are confronted with. I don't think I have any special
insight into the laws of nature. But if there is any such thing as an end

product of human evolution (I don't know if there is such a thing as
evolution but we take for granted that there is) what nature is trying to
produce is not a perfect being.
* But scientific research has revealed that there is such a thing as evolution.
Even today some universities don't allow their students to study Darwin's
The Origin of Species. His statements have been proved to be wrong to
some extent because he said that acquired characteristics cannot be
transmitted to the succeeding generations. But every time they (the
scientists) discover something new they change their theories.
Nature does not use anything as a model. It is only interested in perfecting
the species. It is trying to create perfect species and not perfect beings. We
are not ready to accept that. What nature has created in the form of human
species is something extraordinary. It is an unparalleled creation. But
culture is concerned with fitting the actions of all human beings into a
common mold in order to maintain the status quo--its value system. That is
where the real conflict is. This (referring to himself) is something which
cannot be fitted into that value system.
* I began with this whole question of nature because I find in your
statements a profound sense of nature, a profound sense of the absolute and
primitive reality of life itself, which seems to me an extraordinarily positive
force and a force for the good.
The fundamental mistake that humanity made somewhere along the line,
was to experience this separateness from the totality of life. At that time
there occurred in man, this self-consciousness which separated him from
the life around. He was so isolated that it frightened him. The demand to be
part of the totality of life around him created this tremendous demand for
the ultimate. He thought that the spiritual goals of God, truth, or reality,
would help him to become part of the 'whole' again. But the very attempt

on his part to become one with or become integrated with the totality of life
has kept him only more separate. Isolated functioning is not part of nature.
This isolation has created a demand for finding out ways and means of
becoming a part of nature. But thought in its very nature can only create
problems and cannot help us solve them.
We don't seem to realize that it is thought that is separating us from the
totality of things. The belief that this is the one that can help us to keep in
tune with totality is not going to materialize. So, it has come up with all
kinds of ingenuous, if i may use that word, ideas of insight and intuition.
* Where then do we go from here? I am not going to ask you what the
purpose of life is because obviously, as you were saying, that is really not a
relevant question.
No. It is a relevant question but is born out of the assumption that we know
about life. Nobody knows anything about life. We have only concepts,
ideations and mentations about life. Even the scientists who are trying to
understand life and its origin come up only with theories and definitions of
life. You may not agree with me but all thought, all thinking is dead.
Thinking is born out of dead ideas. Thought or the thinking mechanism,
trying to touch life, experience it, capture and give expression to it are
impossible tasks.
What we are concerned about is living. Living is our relationship with our
fellow beings, with the life around. When we have everything that we can
reasonably ask for, all the material comforts that you have in the West, the
question naturally arises: 'Is that all?' The moment we pose that question to
ourselves, we have created a problem. If that's all there is, what then is the
next step to take? We do not see any meaning in our life and so we pose
this question to ourselves and throw this question at all those who we think
have answers.
What is the meaning of life? What is the purpose of life? It may have its
own meaning; it may have its own purpose. By understanding the meaning

of life and the purpose of life we are not going to improve, change, modify,
or alter our behavior patterns in any way. But there is a hope that by
understanding the meaning of life, we can bring about a change. There may
not be any meaning of life. If it has a meaning, it is already in operation
there. Wanting to understand the meaning of life seems to be a futile
attempt on our part. We go on asking these questions.
Once a very old gentleman, ninety-five years old, who was considered to be
a great spiritual man and who taught the great scriptures to his followers,
came to see me. He asked me two questions: 'What is the meaning of life? I
have written hundreds of books telling people all about the meaning and
purpose of life, quoting the scriptures and interpreting them. I haven't
understood the meaning of life. You are the one who can give me an
answer.' I told him, 'Look, you are ninety-five years old and you haven't
understood the meaning of life. When are you going to understand the
meaning of life? There may not be any meaning to life at all.' The next
question he asked me was, 'I have lived ninety-five years and I am going to
die one of these days. I want to know what will happen after my death.' I
said, 'You may not live long enough to know anything about death. You
have to die now. Are you ready to die?' As long as you are asking the
questions, 'What is death?' or 'What is there after death?' you are already
dead. These are all dead questions. A living man would never ask those
questions.
*Let me ask another question which is not intellectual. What should we do?
(Laughs) For centuries we have been told what to do. Why are we asking
the same question, 'What to do?' What to do in relation to what? What I am
emphasizing is that the demand to bring about a change in ourselves is the
cause of our suffering. I may say that there is nothing to be changed. But
the revolutionary teachers come and tell us that there is something there in
which you have to bring about a radical revolution. Then we assume there
is such a thing as soul, spirit, or the 'I'. What I assert all the time is that I

haven't found anything like the self or soul there.
This question haunted me all my life and suddenly it hit me: 'There is no
self to realize. What the hell have I been doing all this time?' You see, that
hits you like lightning. Once that hits you, the whole mechanism of the
body that is controlled by this thought (of the 'I') is shattered. What is left is
the tremendous living organism with an intelligence of its own. What you
are left with is the pulse, the beat and the throb of life.
'There must be something more and we have to do something to become
part of the whole thing.' Such demands have arisen because of our
assumption that we have been created for a grander purpose than that for
which others species on this planet have been created. That's the
fundamental mistake we have made. Culture is responsible for our
assuming this. We thus come to believe that the whole of creation is for the
benefit of man. The demand to use nature for our purposes has created all
the ecological problems. It is not such an easy thing for us to deal with
these problems. Again, you may say that I am a pessimist.
The point is, we have probably arrived at a place where there is no going
back. What is the fate of mankind and what is one to do? Anything that is
born out of thought is destructive in its nature. That is why I say very often
in my conversations and interviews that thought, in its birth, in its nature, in
its expression and in its action, is fascist. Thought is interested in protecting
itself and is always creating frontiers around itself. And it wants to protect
the frontiers. That is why we create frontiers around us: our families, our
nations and then this planet.
* Why do you speak? I pose the question to you.
Why do I speak? (Laughter) Am I speaking? You know, it may sound very
funny to you. I have nothing to say and what I am saying is not born out of
my thinking. You may not accept this. But it is not a logically ascertained
premise that I am putting across. It may sound very funny to you and you

have put me in a very precarious position by asking me why I am talking.
Am I talking? Really I am not, you see. There is nobody who is talking
here. I use this simile of a ventriloquist. He is actually carrying on both
sides of the dialogue but we attribute one side of it to the dummy in front of
him. In exactly the same way, all your questions are born out of the
answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to
your questions. But it does not. And we are not ready to accept the fact that
all the questions are born out of the answers. If the questions go, the
answers we take for granted also go with them. But we are not ready to
throw the answers away because sentiment comes into the picture. The
tremendous investment we have made and the faith we have in the teachers,
are also at stake. Therefore, we are not ready to brush aside the answers.
Actually we do not want answers for our questions. The assumption that
the questions are different from the questioner is also false. If the answer
goes, the questioner also goes. The questioner is nothing but the answers.
That is really the problem. We are not ready to accept this answer because
it will put an end to the answers which we have accepted for ages as the
real answers.
* We have always been told that mankind has a certain purpose in creation.
But ever since I have met you, I have begun to wonder whether this is true.
You are the one to answer that question. We don't give a tinker's damn, to
use that harsh expression, about what others have said about it. How does it
matter whether what they have said is true or not. It is up to you to find out.
I can say that there is no purpose and if there is any purpose, we have no
way of knowing it. We only repeat what we have been told. We are made
to believe that there is a purpose and that belief is what is responsible for
the tragedy of mankind today. We have also been made to believe that we
are created for a grander purpose, for a nobler purpose than all the species
on this planet. This is not all. We are also told that all creation was created
for the benefit of man. That's why we have created all these problems--

ecological problems and problems of pollution. Now we are almost at a
point where we are going to blow ourselves up. The planet is not in danger;
we are in danger. You can pollute this planet and do all kinds of things; the
planet can absorb everything--even these human bodies. If we are wiped
out, nature knows what to do with the human bodies. It recycles them to
maintain the energy level in the universe. That's all it is interested in. So,
we are no more purposeful or meaningful than any other thing on this
planet. We are not created for any grander purpose than the ants that are
there or the flies that are hovering around us or the mosquitoes that are
sucking our blood. I can say all this, but what do you have to say? That is
more important than what I have to say. We really don't know. We have no
way of knowing anything. Even the scientists--they can say what they like.
How does it interest us? It does not really matter as to how this whole
universe was created--whether God created it or the whole thing came out
of some dust and pebbles or hydrogen atoms somewhere. It is for the
scientists to talk about all this and every now and then come up with new
theories. They will be amply rewarded and given Nobel Prizes. But the
theories don't help us to understand anything. So I really don't know if there
is any purpose. I don't think that there is any. I do not see any meaning or
purpose in life. A living thing, a living organism is not interested in asking
the question, 'What is the purpose of life? What is the meaning of life?'
*Does it matter if you create your own purpose?
We are not satisfied with the daily grind of our lives, doing the same thing
over and over again. We are bored. So boredom is responsible for asking
the question, 'What is the purpose?' Man feels that if this is all that is there,
what more is there for him to do?
*You said that if we get bored we invent something or the other.
We create all sorts of things.

*Why does man get bored?
Because man imagines that there is something more interesting, more
meaningful, more purposeful to do than what he is actually doing.
Anything you want above the basic needs creates this boredom for the
human being. You get the feeling, 'Is that all?'
Nature is interested only in two things--to survive and to reproduce.
Anything you superimpose on that, all the cultural input, is responsible for
boredom. So we have varieties of religious experience. You are not
satisfied with your own religious teachings or games; so you bring in others
form India, Asia, or China. They become interesting because they are new.
You pick up a new language and try to speak it and use it to feel more
important. But basically, it is the same thing.
* Christianity tells us to develop our talents. But you need no talent to
reproduce.
No talent is required to reproduce. Nature has done a tremendous job in
creating this extraordinary piece--the body. The body does not want to
learn anything from culture. It doesn't want to know anything from us. We
are always interested in telling this body how to function. All our
experiences, spiritual or otherwise, are the basic cause of our suffering. The
body is not interested in your bliss or your ecstasies. It is not interested in
your pleasure. It is not interested in anything that you are interested in. And
that is the battle that is going on all the time. But there seems to be no way
out.
* We have lost touch with the original state somewhere....
...because culture or society has placed before us the model of a perfect
being. Nature does not imitate anything. It does not use anything as a
model.

* Where does it all lead us?
It leads you to where you actually stand and therefore the question....
(Laughter)
* Asking questions about all this is wrong?
Don't ask this question. You have no questions and I have no questions. I
have no questions at all other than the basic questions we need to ask. I am
here and I want to get the bearings of this place. So I go and find out. I ask,
'Where is this station?' If I want to go to London, I ask, 'Where is the
British Airways office?' These are the basic questions we need to ask to
function sanely and intelligently in this world. We do have to accept the
reality of the world as it is imposed on us. Otherwise we will go crazy. If
you question the reality of anything that is imposed on you, you are in
trouble because there is no such thing as reality, let alone ultimate reality.
You have no way of experiencing the reality of anything.
* Well, we have invented reality....
We have invented reality. Otherwise you have no way of experiencing the
reality of anything--the reality of that person sitting there, for instance, or
even (the reality of) your own physical body. You have no way of
experiencing that at all except through the help of the knowledge that has
been put in you. So, there may not be any such thing as reality at all, let
alone the ultimate reality. I do have to accept the fact that you are a man,
that she is a woman. That is all. There it stops. But what is the reality you
are talking about?
* When I was a little kid my parents and the people around told me about
the bearings of my culture. I was trained not to question them.
They don't want you to question. They force on us everything they believed

in, even the things they themselves did not believe, the things that did not
operate in their lives. There is no use blaming them now. We are adults. So
we don't have to blame them. This is a silly idea, the Freudian idea that for
everything that is happening your mother is responsible or your father is
responsible. We are all grown-up people. There is no point in blaming our
mothers and fathers. It is not a one-way street. Even children want to be
accepted by us. We force them to fit into this framework and they want to
be accepted by us. This is two-way traffic.
* So there is no way of seeing what I think I see.
You never see anything. The physical eye does not say anything. There is
no way you can separate yourself from what you are looking at. We have
We have only sensory perceptions. They do not tell us about that thing--for
example, that it is a camera. The moment you recognize that it is a camera,
and a Sony camera at that, you have separated yourself from it. So what
you are actually doing is translating sensory perceptions within the
framework of the knowledge you have of it. We never look at anything. It
is too dangerous to look because that 'looking' destroys the continuity of
thinking.
We project the knowledge we have of whatever we are looking at. Even if
you say that it is an object without giving it a name, like, for example,
'camera', knowledge has already entered. It is good for a Philosophy student
to talk about this everlastingly, separating the object from the word, or
separating the word from the thing. But actually, if you say that it is an
object, you have already separated yourself from it. Even if you don't give a
name to it, or recognize it as something, or call it a camera, a video camera,
you have already separated yourself from it.
All that is already there in the computer. We are not conscious of the fact
that we have all that information locked up there in the computer. It
emerges suddenly. We think it is something original. You think that you
are looking at it for the first time in your life. You are not. Supposing

somebody tells you that this is something new, you are trying to relate what
he calls new to the framework of the old knowledge that you have.
* So if it is not in the computer, you cannot see it.
You cannot. If the information is not already there, there is no way you can
see. There is only a reflection of the object on the retina. Even scientists
who have done a great deal of observation and research would agree. There
is no way of experiencing the fact of that for yourself, because the stimulus
and response are one unitary movement. The moment you separate
yourself, you have created a problem. You may talk of the unity of life or
the oneness of life and all that kind of stuff and nonsense. But there is no
way you can create that unitary movement through any effort of yours. The
only way for anyone who is interested in finding out what this is all about
is to watch how this separation is occurring, how you are separating
yourself from the things that are happening around you and inside you.
Actually there is no difference between the outside and the inside. It is
thought that creates the frontiers and tells us that this is the inside and
something else is the outside. If you tell yourself that you are happy,
miserable, or bored, you have already separated yourself from that
particular sensation that is there inside you.
* And the cells react to what we think?
The cells are wearing out. That's why I say that the tragedy that is facing
mankind is not AIDS or cancer, but Alzheimer's disease. We are using the
neurons, our memory, constantly to maintain our identity. Whether you are
awake or asleep or dreaming, this process is carried on. But it is wearing
you out.
You experience what you know. Without the knowledge, you have no way
of experiencing anything. There is no such thing as a new experience at all.
When you tell yourself that it is a new experience, it is the old that tells you

that it is a new experience. Otherwise, you have no way of saying that it is
something new. It is the old that tells you that it is new. And through that it
is making it part of the old.
The only way it (the experience) can maintain its continuity is through the
constant demand to know. If you don't know what you are looking at, the
'you' as you know yourself, the 'you' as you experience yourself, is going to
come to an end. That is death. That is the only death and there is no other
death.
* That's terrifying....
That is terrifying--the fear of losing what you know. So actually, you don't
want to be free from fear. You do not want the fear to come to and end. All
that you are doing --all the therapies and techniques that you are using to
free yourself from fear, for whatever reason you want to be free from fear--
is the thing that is maintaining the fear and giving continuity to it. So you
do not want the fear to come to an end. If the fear comes to an end, the fear
of what you know comes to an end. You will physically drop dead. Clinical
death will take place.
* You said that we would die if we gave up our beliefs.
You replace one belief with another. You can't be without a belief. What
you call 'you' is only a belief. If the belief goes, you go with it. That is the
reason why, when you are not satisfied with one belief-structure, you
replace it with another.
* Do you believe that there is nothing wrong with the world?
I don't see anything wrong with this world because the world can't be any
different. I am not interested in making a living out of telling people that
the world needs some change, radical or otherwise. If you are a politician
or a president of a nation, then it is a different story. Otherwise it is what it

is. We being what we are, the world cannot be any different. What I say is
not an abstraction. You and I living together is the world.
* You often say, 'You are the medium through which I can express myself.'
Yes. You are the medium through I can express myself. There is no other
way. I don't even have the impetus to express myself. You may well ask
me, 'Why the hell do you talk? Why the hell do you meet people?' It is you
who have brought all these people. Why do you ask me questions? That is
one of the reasons why I have always avoided publicity of any kind. I don't
want to promote myself, nor will I allow others to promote me.
* What is nature?
All of us are the same. That's what I am saying.
* There is still a sidestepping of nature. What is that?
Yes. That's it. That is exactly what I am saying. To sidestep the
complexities of this society is one of the biggest mistakes that we are
making. But there is nothing out there, you see. All these god men, gurus
and flunkies are offering us a new oasis. You will find out that it is no
different from other mirages. We are leaving everything for some mythical
certainty offered to us. But this is the only reality and there is no other
reality.
What I am emphasizing is, if your energy is not wasted in pursuit of some
mythical certainties offered to us, life becomes very simple. But we end up
being wasted, misled and misspent individuals. If that energy is released,
what is it that we can't do to survive in the midst of these complexities
created by our culture? It is very simple. The attempt to sidestep these
complexities is the very thing that is causing us all these problems.
* I get the impression that what you are proposing is in a way a

revolutionary idea. When you say, 'All these flunkies and god men', it's a
kind of revolt.
They are giving you false comfort and that is what people want. The
mainstream of the population is not interested in what I am saying. They
hear what they want to hear. What I say is of no interest to them. If you say
that God is redundant, it is not a rebellion against anything. You know
religious thinking is outdated and outmoded. But I go one step further and
say that all political ideologies are nothing but the warty outgrowth of the
same religious thinking. They may call it a revolution. But revolution is
only a revaluation of things. You will only end up creating another value
system which may be slightly different from the value system that we want
to destroy. But basically they are all the same. That is why when it (the
revolution) settles down, it calls for another revolution. Even the talk of the
continuous revolution of Mao Tse-tung has failed. In the very nature of
things, a revolution has to settle down.
* Coming back to what you said earlier about rejecting the whole past--
experiences, thoughts, everything....
It is not something that you can do through any effort, will or volition of
yours. It has to be a miracle. Whatever has happened to me has happened
despite everything I did. In fact, everything I did only blocked it. It
prevented the possibility of whatever was there to express itself. Not that I
have gained anything. Only what is there is able to express itself without
any hindrance, without any constraints or restraints imposed on it by
society for its own reasons, for its own continuity and stability.
* Shouldn't we have to search first?
The search is inevitable and is an integral part of it. That is why it has
turned us all into neurotics and has created this duality for us. You see,
ambition is a reality, competition is a reality. But you have superimposed

on that reality the idea that you should not be ambitious. It has turned us all
into neurotic individuals. We want two things at the same time.
Whether he is here or in America or in Russia or anywhere else, what does
man want? He wants happiness without one moment of unhappiness. He
wants permanent pleasure without pain. This is the basic demand--
permanence. It is this demand that has created religious thinking--God,
Truth or Reality. Since things in life are not permanent, we demand that
there must be something permanent. That is why these religious teachers
are peddling their wares in the streets. They offer you these comforters:
'permanent happiness' or 'permanent bliss'. Are they ready to accept the fact
that bliss, beatitude, immensity, love and compassion are also sensual?
* You mean there is nothing to what Christ or Buddha said?
Let's leave them alone. Otherwise we will all be in trouble.
* You say that there is no individual.
Where is the individual?
* Well, I feel I am one.
You are not an individual. You are doing exactly the same thing that
everybody is doing.
* Am I not separate from this body and that body?
No, not at all.
* How are we connected?
If you accept what I am talking about, it's a very dangerous situation. Your
wife goes, you see.
* No relationship...?

No relationship. Sorry....
* I don't want it.
You don't want it? 'How can you ask for this?' is all that I am saying. You
are only trying to fit me into a framework by calling me an enlightened
man. This fellow (U.G. points to a guest) is telling everyone, 'Jesus is living
here. Why should I go to church?' He is crazy. (Laughter) Don't you think
that they (the religious people) have all created a mess for us. They laid the
foundation for destruction.
* From what I understand, you don't have to reach for answers because all
the answers are really coming from the answers that you already have.
But is there any way you can free yourself from that activity?
* Isn't it in a way a part or expression of that state?
There is no other way I can point out the danger that is involved in your
seeking whatever you are seeking. You see, there is this pleasure
movement. I am not against the pleasure movement. I am neither preaching
hedonism nor advocating any 'ism' or anything. What I am saying is a
threat to 'you' as you know yourself and experience yourself. You
necessarily fit me into that framework (of the Buddha, Jesus and others)
and if you don't succeed, you will say, 'How can he be outside of it?' The
way out for you is either to reject me totally, or to call me a fraud or a fake.
You see, the feeling, 'How can all of them be wrong?' prevents you from
listening to me. Or else you put it another way and say that the content of
whatever has happened to U.G. and to them is the same but his expression
is different.
* Let us talk of the big-bang theory of the universe.

I question the big-bang theory.
* But you know that we were all atoms in the beginning.
I am questioning even fundamental particles. We will never be able to find
the fundamental particles.
* In your first book you talk of the ionization of thought and an explosion.
From then on, understanding is not through the intellect. We have
developed and sharpened the intellect through the years. So it (the intellect,
in U.G.) understood in its own way that it is not the instrument, that there is
no other instrument and that there is nothing to understand. My problem
was in using this intellect to understand whatever I was looking for. But it
didn't help me to understand a thing. So I was searching for some other
instrument to understand, that is, intuition, this, that and the other. But I
realized that this is the only instrument I have and the hope that I would
understand something through some other instrument, on some level and
some other way, disappeared. It dawned on me, 'There is nothing to
understand.' When this happened, it hit me like a shaft of lightning. From
then on, the very demand to understand anything was over. That
understanding is the one that is expressing itself now. And it cannot be
used as an instrument to guide, direct or help me, you or anybody.
* Are you afraid of death?
There is nothing to die here (in U.G.). The body cannot be afraid of death.
The movement that is created by society or culture is what does not want to
come to an end. How it came to an end (in U.G.) I really don't know. What
you are afraid of is not death. In fact, you don't want to be free from fear.
* Why?

Because when you fear comes to an end you will drop dead.
* Why?
That is its nature. It is the fear that makes you believe that you are living
and that you will be dead. What we do not want is the fear to come to an
end. That is why we have invented all these new minds, new science, new
talk, therapies, choiceless awareness and various other gimmicks. Fear is
the very thing that you do not want to be free from. What you call 'yourself'
is fear. The 'you' is born out of fear--it lives in fear, functions in fear and
dies in fear.
* It is difficult to put you in a definite category.
All those who come to see me have this problem of where to fit me. It is
easy for them to call me a god man, enlightened man, guru and stick all
those fancy labels on me. 'That is our difficulty,' they say. 'We really don't
know where to fit you. It is a reflection on our intelligence,' they say. Even
the philosophers talk of the impossibility of fitting me into a framework.
But this doesn't necessarily make me feel superior or proud.
* If the world can't find a label for you, what kind of label do you find for
the world?
I am quite satisfied with the world! (Laughter) Quite satisfied. The world
cannot be any different. Traveling destroys many illusions and creates new
illusions for us. I have discovered, to my dismay, if I may put it that way,
that human nature is exactly the same whether a person is a Russian or an
American or someone from somewhere else. It is as though we all speak
the same language but the accent is different. I will probably speak
(English) with an Andhra accent, you with a Kannada accent and someone
else with a French accent. But basically human beings are exactly the same.
There is absolutely no difference. I don't see any difference at all. Culture is

probably responsible for the differences. We being what we are, the world
cannot be any different. As long as there is a demand in you to bring about
a change in yourself, you want to bring about a change in the world.
Because you can't fit into the framework of culture and its value system,
you want to change the world so that you can have a comfortable place in
it.
* What I understand from what you are saying is that we are operating
under a value system, whether it is good or bad.
You see, both good and bad, right and wrong, are not the reverse of a coin
but are the same coin. They are like the two ends of the spectrum. One
cannot exist independent of the other. When once you are finished with this
duality, (I am using the word with much caution as I don't really like to use
it) when you are no longer caught up in the dichotomy of right and wrong
or good and bad, you can never do anything wrong. As long as you are
caught up in it, the danger is that you will always do wrong; and if you
don't do wrong, it is because you are a frightened 'chicken'. It is out of this
cowardice that religious thinking is born.
* You were saying in some context that anger is not bad and that it cannot
do any harm.
Anger is like an outburst of energy. It is like the high tide and the low tide
in the sea. The question, 'What to do with anger?' is something put in there
by culture, because society considers an angry man a threat to its status
quo, to its continuity.
* Well, you are not a threat then.
I am not a threat. I am not a threat because I cannot, you see, conceive of
the possibility of anything other than this. I am not interested in changing
anything. You are the one that is all the time talking of bringing about a

change. At the same time, everything around you and inside of you is in a
flux. It is constantly changing. Everything around you is changing; yet you
don't want change. You see, that's the problem. Your unwillingness to
change is really the problem and you call it tradition. You dub
'unwillingness to change with the changing things,' a great tradition.
* Why does nature deliberately want to first create and then destroy?
Because nothing is ever born and nothing ever dies. What has created the
space between creation and destruction or the time between the two, is
thought. In nature there is no death or destruction at all. What occurs is the
reshuffling of atoms. If there is a need or necessity to maintain the balance
of energy in this universe, death occurs. You may not like it. Earthquakes
may be condemned by us. Surely they cause misery to so many thousands
and thousands of people. And all this humanitarian activity around the
world--sending planeloads of supplies is really a commendable act. It helps
those who are suffering there and those who have lost their property. But it
is the same kind of activity that is responsible for killing millions and
millions of people. What I am saying is that the destructive, war-making
movement and the humanitarian movement on the other hand--are both
born from the same source.
In the long run, earthquakes and the eruption of volcanoes are part of
nature's way of creating something new. Now, you know, something
strange is happening in America--the volcanic eruptions. Some unknown
forms of life are growing there in that very thing which was destroyed. Of
course, I am not saying that you should not do anything to help those
people.
The self-consciousness that occurred in the human species may be a
necessary thing. I don't know. I am not claiming that I have a special
insight into the workings of nature. Your question can be answered only
that way. You see for yourself. That's why I say that the very foundation of
human culture is to kill and to be killed. It has happened so. If one is

interested in looking at history right from the beginning, the whole
foundation of humanity is built on the idea that those who are not with us
are against us. That's what is operating in human thinking. So, to kill and to
be killed in the name of God, represented by the church in the West and all
the other religious thinking here in the East, was the order of the day. That's
why there is this fundamentalism here in this country now. The Chinese--
what horrors they have committed, you will be surprised. They killed
scholars and religious people. They burned and buried the books of
Confucius and other teachers. Today the political ideologies represented by
the state are responsible for the killing of people. And they claim that what
they are doing is the result of some great revolution that they had started.
Revolution is nothing but the revaluation of our values. It really does not
mean anything. After a while it settles down and that is why they are
talking of Glasnost there (in the Soviet Union). But it does not really mean
anything there. Gorbachev is going to create a hundred Punjabs in that
country.
* We do seem to have a need to search and find something.
The body does not want to learn anything or know anything because it has
that intelligence--native, innate intelligence--that helps it to survive. If this
body is in a jungle, it will survive; if it doesn't, it's gone. But it will fight to
the last. That's just the way the human body functions. If there is some
danger to it, the body throws in everything that is available and tries to
protect itself. If it cannot, it gives in. But in a way the body has no death.
The atoms in it are put together and what happens at death is a reshuffling
of the atoms. They will be used somewhere else. So the body has no birth
or death because it has no way of experiencing that it is alive or that it will
be dead tomorrow.
* We always feel that we have to improve ourselves or find a way out of
our misery. Everyone thinks that he or she has to change or get to a higher

level. What is your view on the matter?
The moment we ask the question, 'Is there something more to our life than
what we are doing?' we set the whole questioning mechanism going.
Unfortunately, what has created this interest in the Western nations is the
so-called Hippy generation. When they tried drugs, the drugs produced a
change in what they called their 'levels of consciousness'. For the first time
they experienced something outside the area of their normal experiencing
structure. When once we experience something extraordinary, which
actually it is not, we look around for varieties of experiences... more and
more of the same. That has created a market for all those people from the
Eastern countries --India, China and Japan. They flood into these countries
and promise to provide answers for their questions. But actually they are
selling shoddy goods. What people are interested in is not some answers to
their problems but some comforters. As I said before, they are selling ice
packs to numb the pain and make you feel comfortable. Nobody wants to
ask the basic question: What is the real problem? What is it that they want?
What are they looking for? And this (situation) is taken advantage of by the
people from the East. If there is anything to what they claim (that they have
the answers and solutions for the problems that we are all facing today) it
doesn't seem to be evident in the countries from where they come. The
basic question which Westerners should throw at them is: 'Have your
answers helped the people of your own countries? Do your solutions
operate in your own lives?' Nobody is asking them these questions. The
hundred different techniques that they offer to you have not been subjected
to test. You don't have any statistical evidence to prove that there is
something to what they claim. They exploit the gullibility of the people.
When once you have everything that you need, the material goodies, you
look around and ask the question, 'Is that all there is to it?' And that
situation is exploited by those people. They don't have any answers for the
problems facing us today.

What is responsible for the human tragedy or the malady that we are
confronted with today is that we are interested in maintaining the identities
that are created by our culture. We have tremendous faith in the value
system that is created by our culture or society or whatever you want to call
it. We never question that. We are only interested in fitting ourselves into
that value system. It is that demand from society or culture to fit us all into
that value system that is the cause of man's tragedy.
Somewhere along the line there occurred in human consciousness the
demand to find out the answers for loneliness, the isolation that human
beings suffer from the rest of the species on this planet. I don't even know
if there is any such thing as evolution. If there is, somewhere along the line
in that evolutionary process man separated or isolated himself from the rest
of creation on this planet. In that isolation, he felt so frightened that he
demanded some answers, some comfort, to fill that loneliness, that isolation
from the rest of the life around him. Religious thinking was born out of this
situation and it has gone on for centuries. But it has not really helped us to
solve the problems created by mankind. Even the political systems that we
have today are nothing but the warty outgrowth of the spiritual, religious
thinking of man. All that has failed and a void has been created. There has
been a total failure of our political and economic ideologies.
There is a tremendous danger facing mankind today. The void created by
the failure of all these ideologies will be taken advantage of by the church.
They will preach and shout that we all have to go back to Jesus or go back
to the great traditions of our own countries. But what has failed for them is
not going to help us to solve our problems.
When some psychologists and scientists came to see me, I made this very
clear to them, 'You have come to the end of your tether. If you want
answers for your problems, you have to find them within your own
framework and not look elsewhere, especially not in the ancient dead
cultures of the past.' Going back or looking back to those systems and
techniques that have failed us is only going to put us on a wrong track, on a

merry-go-round.
* If we have created the problems, we are also fighting them.
Yes. But we are not ready to accept the fact that what has created the
problems cannot itself solve them. What we are using to solve our
problems is what we call 'thought'. But thought is a protective mechanism.
Thought is only interested in maintaining the status quo. We may talk of
change but when the time actually comes for us to change things, we are
not ready for it. We insist that change must always be for the better and not
for the worse. We have a tremendous faith in the mechanism that has
created the problems for us. After all, that is the only instrument that we
have at our disposal. But actually it cannot help us at all. It can only create
problems, not solve them. We are not ready to accept this fact because
accepting it will knock out the whole foundation of human culture. We
want to replace one system with another. But the whole structure of culture
is pushing us in the direction of completely annihilating all that we have
built with tremendous care.
We don't want to be free from fear. Anything you do to free yourself from
fear is what is perpetuating the fear. Is there any way we can be freed from
fear? Fear is something that cannot be handled by thought; it is something
living. So we want to put on our gloves and try to touch it, play with it. All
that we want to do is to play games with it and talk about freeing ourselves
from fear. Or go to this therapist or that, or follow this technique or that.
But in that process, what we are actually doing is strengthening and
fortifying the very thing that we are trying to be free from.
* So we live in a society based on fear. Even our institutions--police,
banks, doctors, insurance and everything we have created--are based on
fear?
Yes, fear. But what is the point in telling ourselves that we are going to be

freed from fear? If that fear comes to an end, you will drop dead,
physically! Clinical death will take place! Of course, you and your fear are
not two different things. It is comforting to believe that you and fear are
two different things. You are frightened of certain things or you do not
want this or that to happen. You want to be free from fear. But there is no
way you free yourself from it. If the fear comes to an end, 'you' as you
know yourself, 'you' as you experience yourself, are going to come to an
end, and you are not ready for that sort of thing.
The plain fact is that if you don't have a problem, you create one. If you
don't have a problem, you don't feel that you are living. So the solutions
that we have been offered by the teachers, in whom we have tremendous
faith, are not really the solutions. If they were the solutions, the problems
wouldn't be there at all. If there are no solutions for the problems, even then
the problems wouldn't be there. We would like to live with those problems
and if we are free from one problem, we create another.
* Does meditation affect the body?
You put your body to unnecessary torture.
* The body suffers?
Yes, the body suffers. It is not interested in your techniques of meditation,
which actually are destroying the peace that is already there. It is an
extraordinarily peaceful organism. It does not have to do anything to be in a
peaceful state. By introducing this idea of a peaceful mind, we set in
motion a sort of battle and the battle goes on and on. But what you feel,
what you experience as the peaceful state of mind, is a war-weary state of
mind created by your thought. Once you experience some peaceful state of
mind, you want more and more of the same. This creates problems for the
body.
* This week I hear there is going to be an important meeting here.

Scientists from all over the world, from different disciplines--people from
the spiritual world and the world of industry and economics--are for the
first time coming together to talk about the similarities among their
respective disciplines, instead of differences. All of them now seem to feel
that they should support each other instead of focusing their energies only
on differences and the compartments that they create in their minds.
First of all, the scientists, by looking or asking for help from all these
religious people, are committing the biggest of all blunders. They have
come to the end of their tether. If they have problems in their system they
have to solve them by and for themselves. These religious people have no
answers for the problems created by scientific thinking. I do not know if by
coming together and exchanging their views or giving speeches they are
going to achieve anything. I may sound very cynical when I say that
nothing is going to come out of it except that they will make speeches and
feel comfortable that they are trying to understand each other's point of
view. When you say something to someone, he will say that that is your
point of view. But he does not realize that his also is a point of view. So,
how can there by any communication between those two people who have
different points of view? The whole purpose of the conversation or
dialogue is only to convert the other man to your point of view. If you have
no point of view, there is no way he can convince or convert you to his
point of view. So this dialogue is between two points of view and there is
no way you can reconcile them.
The conference would be very interesting (Laughs). They can all come
together, talking about that (what is common to their different disciplines)
and exchange their views and that would be that. It would be something
like the United Nations. (The United Nations is the biggest joke of this
century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there
be a United Nations?) The problem is that thought creates frontiers
everywhere. That's all it can do.

* Do you think that the discover of the laws of nature and the enormous
money that is invested in it will ultimately help mankind?
Even if we discover the laws of nature, for whatever reason we are
interested in doing so, ultimately they are used to destroy everything that
nature has created. This propaganda that the planet is in danger is media
hype. Everybody has in fact forgotten about it. Actually it is not the planet
that is in danger but us. We are not ready to face this situation squarely. We
must not look for answers in the past or in the great heritage of this or that
nation. And we must not look to the religious thinkers. They don't have any
answers. If the scientists look to religious leaders for their solutions, they
are committing the biggest blunder. Religious people put us all on the
wrong track and there is no way you can reverse the process.
* What do you think we should do then?
I am not here to save mankind or prophesy that we are all heading toward a
disaster. I am not talking of an Armageddon, nor am I prophesying that
there is going to be a paradise on this planet. Nothing of the sort; there is
not going to be any paradise. It is the idea of a paradise, the idea of creating
a heaven on this earth, that has turned this beautiful paradise that we
already have on this planet into a hell. We are solely responsible for what is
happening. And the answers for our problems cannot come from the past
and its glory or from the great religious teachers of mankind. Those
teachers will naturally claim that you all have failed and that they have the
answers for the problems that we are confronted with today. I don't think
that they have any answers. We have to find the answers, if any, for
ourselves and by ourselves.
* I have read somewhere, 'Your image is your best friend.'
(Laughs) That's a sales pitch; it's very interesting. In fact, it's the other way
around: the image we have is responsible for our problems. What, after all,

is the world? The world is the relationship between two individuals. But
that relationship is based on the foundation of 'What do I get out of a
relationship?' Mutual gratification is the basis of all relationships. If you
don't get what you want out of a relationship, it goes sour. What there is in
the place of what you call a 'loving relationship' is hate. When everything
fails, we play the last card in the pack, and that is 'love'. But love is fascist
in its nature, in its birth, in its expression and in its actions. It cannot do us
any good. We may talk of love but it doesn't mean anything. The whole
music of our age is around that song, 'Love, Love, Love ....'
* Do you like television?
Yes, I do watch television. I turn the sound off and watch the movement
only. I like to watch the commercials because most of the commercials are
more interesting than the programs. If people can fall for the commercials,
they can fall for anything that these religious people are selling today in the
market. How can you fall for those commercials? But they are very
interesting. It is not the commercials nor what they are selling that interests
me but the techniques of salesmanship. They are amazing and more
interesting--I am fascinated by those techniques. I am not influenced by
what they are selling. If they had customers like me they would soon be out
of business. I don't buy anything they are selling.
* Soon they will have commercials in Russia and Eastern Europe.
That's what has happened in Russia. It is not your (American) ideas of
democracy or freedom that have won the country over to your side. It was
Coca Cola, I think, in China, and Pepsi Cola in Russia. Why do they have
to sell organically grown potato chips there in Russia? I want to know.
They have also opened a McDonald's there. That's all that the West can
offer to them. That is how it (commercialism) is spreading. If America
survives, if we survive and if we don't destroy ourselves through our own

idiotic ways of living and thinking, the American way of life is going to be
the way of life. Even in the third world countries, including India, we have
supermarkets. They are very innovative, the Americans. So, it
(commercialism) is spreading all over.
* What is your attitude to money?
Money is the most important factor in our lives. They say that money is the
root cause of all evil. But actually it is not the root cause of evil; it is the
root cause of our existence, of our survival. I sometimes say that if you
worship that God, the money God, you will by amply rewarded. If you
worship the other God--whether He exists or not is anybody's guess--you
will be stripped of everything you have and He will leave you naked in the
streets. It is better to worship the money God. Tell me one person who is
not thinking of money. Not one person on this planet. Even the holy ones
who talk about their indifference to money are concerned about it. How do
you think they will get ninety-two Rolls Royces? You try and buy one
Rolls Royce car; you will know how difficult it is. For the religious people
it is easy because other people deny themselves and give their money to
them. So you can be rich at another man's expense. How much money you
need is a different matter. Each one has to draw his own line. But when
once your goals and needs are the same, then the problem is very simple.
* So you stay more or less here, in this moment and deal with what
happens right now.
When once that becomes a reality in your life, it becomes very simple to
live in this world, the complex and complicated world created by us all. We
are all responsible for this world. When once this demand to change
yourself into something better, something other than what you actually are,
is not there, the demand to change the world also comes to an end. I don't
see anything wrong with the world. What is wrong with this world? The

world can't be any different from what we are. If there is a war going on
within us, we cannot expect a peaceful world around us. We will certainly
create war. You may say that it all depends upon who is responsible for the
war. It is simply a point of view as to who is calling another a warmonger
and himself the peace-monger. The peace-mongers and the warmongers
sail in the same boat. It is something like the pot calling the kettle black or
the other way around: the kettle calling the pot black.
* We are stuck in words and ideas.
We dare not leave 'what is' alone. It implies that you are still grappling with
what you romantically phrase as 'what is'. It is like dealing with the
unknown. There is no such thing as the unknown. The known is still trying
to make the unknown part of the known. It is a game that we play. That is
how we fool ourselves in our approach to problems. All our positive
approaches have failed and we have invented what is called the 'negative
approach'. But the negative approach is still interested in the same goal that
the positive approach is interested in. What is necessary for us is to free
ourselves from the goal. When once we are freed from the goal (of solving
problems) the question of whether it is a positive approach or a negative
approach does not even arise.
* So in nature, the positive and the negative don't exist at all?
They don't exist at all. If they do, they exist in the same frame. That is what
all these scientists are talking about. If you observe the universe, there is
chaos in it. The moment you say there is chaos, in the same frame, there is
also order. So, you cannot, for sure, say that there is order or chaos in the
universe. Both of them are occurring simultaneously. That is the way the
living organism also operates. The moment thought is born, it cannot stay
there. Thought is matter. When once the matter that is necessary for the
survival of the living organism is created, that matter becomes part of

energy. Similarly life and death are simultaneous processes. It is thought
that has separated and created the two points of birth and death. Thought
has created this space and this time. But actually, birth and death are
simultaneous processes.
You cannot say that you are alive or dead. But if you ask me the question,
'Are you alive?' I would certainly say, 'I am alive.' So my answer is the
common knowledge you and I have about how a living being functions.
That is how I say that I am a living being and not a dead person. But we
give tremendous importance to these ideas. We sit and discuss them
everlastingly and produce a tremendous structure of thought around them.
* Does that mean that the scientists who are coming next week need to
recognize the fact that there is no way out?
If they could, then they wouldn't give any solutions and wouldn't offer
anything. There is no way out. The solution for their problems is to accept
the fact that there is no way out. And out of that (acceptance) something
can come.
* Even if you understand the right or wrong of the matter...?
It is not a question of calling it right or wrong. There is no way out.
Anything you do to get out of this trap which you yourself have created is
strengthening and fortifying it. So, you are not ready to accept the fact that
you have to give up. A complete, total surrender. I don't like using that
word 'surrender' because it has certain mystical overtones. It is a state of
hopelessness which says that there is no way out of this situation. Any
movement, in any direction, on any level, is taking you away from that.
Maybe something can happen there, we don't know. But even that hope that
something will happen is still a hope.
* Sometimes it so happens that when you give up everything the problem
gets automatically resolved.

Yes. This happens to all those who are working out some mathematical or
scientific problem. They go to sleep when they are exhausted and that gives
some time for the mechanism that is involved to give an answer. It is not
some miraculous thing. You give some time for the computer to work out a
solution to your problem. On its own it comes out with the answer but only
if there is an answer. If there is no answer then that is the end of the story.
* So you let go? It is very difficult to frame questions because of the
problem of language.
Our language structure is such that there is no way you can be free from a
dualistic approach to problems. Again, I'm not happy using the word
'dualistic' because it has religious connotations.
* What is the relationship between words and reality?
None. There is nothing beyond words.
* Is life difficult?
Life is difficult. So discipline sounds very attractive to people. With great
admiration we say, 'He has suffered a lot.' Our entire religious thinking is
built on the foundation of suffering. If not for religion, you suffer for the
cause of your country in the name of patriotism....
* For your family....
Those who impose that kind of discipline on us are sadists. But
unfortunately we are all being masochists in accepting that. We torture
ourselves in the hope of achieving something.... We are slaves to our ideas
and beliefs. We are not ready to throw them out. If we succeed in throwing
them out, we replace them with another set of beliefs, another body of
discipline. Those who are marching into the battlefield and are ready to be

killed today in the name of democracy, in the name of freedom, in the name
of communism, are no different from those who threw themselves to the
lions in the arenas. The Romans watched with great joy. How are we
different from them? Not a bit. We love it. To kill and to be killed is the
foundation of our culture.
* Wherever you go people comment on your demeanor and your physical
appearance. How do you keep fit? I know you don't practice yoga or any
other form of exercise.
I don't exercise at all. The only walking I do is from my place to the post
office, which is about a half a kilometer or even a quarter of a mile away
from where I live. But I used to walk a lot. I am afraid that I may have to
pay a heavy price for all the walking that I did before. You know, I am not
competent enough to offer any comments on these matters. But one thing I
want to assert is that for some reason this body of ours does not want to
know anything or learn anything from us. No doubt we have made
tremendous advances in the field of medical technology. But are they really
helping the body? That is one of the basic questions that we should ask.
* Can we actually help the body?
I think what we are actually doing is trying to treat the symptoms of what
we call a disease. But my question is, and I always throw this question at
the people who are competent enough--the doctors--what is health? What is
disease? Is there any such thing as disease for this body? You know, we
translate the 'malfunctioning' (of the body) to mean that there is some
imbalance in the natural rhythm of the body. Not that we know what the
rhythm of the body actually is. But we are so frightened that we run to a
doctor or to somebody who we think is in the know of things and can help
us. We do not give a chance for the body to work out the problems created
by the situation we find ourselves in. We do not give enough time for the

body. We do not know whether our bodies are healthy or unhealthy.
* We do (know).
We translate health into being free from any symptoms. If I don't have a
pain in my knee, then I don't have a disease there. We indulge in medical
research in order to gather useful knowledge that could be applied when
there is a pain in the knee. But what is pain? I am not asking a metaphysical
question. To me pain is a healing process. But we do not give enough
chance or opportunity to the body to hear itself or help itself, to free itself
from what we call pain.
* You are saying that all the things we do are in some way or other
probably hindering the body from living longer, healthier and happier. So
we must leave the body alone.
Yes, leave the body alone. Don't get frightened and rush here, there and
everywhere. In any case, there is no way you can conquer death at all.
* I get what you say.
People are trying subconsciously to prevent death. Our pushing people into
a value system is a very undesirable thing, you know. You want to push
everybody into a value system. We never question that this value system
which we have cherished for centuries may be the very thing that is
responsible for our misery.
* Yes, that may be the very thing that is generating disease.
Disease and conflict in our lives. We really don't know. Another thing I
want to emphasize is that what we call identity, the 'I', the 'me', the 'you',
the 'center', the 'psyche', is artificially created. It does not exist at all.
* It is also a cultural phenomenon.

Yes, it has been culturally created. We are doing everything possible to
maintain that identity, whether we are asleep, awake, or dreaming. The
instrument that we use to maintain this identity strengthens, fortifies and
gives continuity to it. The constant use of memory is wearing you out. We
really do not know what memory is but we are constantly using it to
maintain that non-existent identity of ours.
* So we keep coming back to this point that thought itself seems to be the
enemy, the interloper.
It is our enemy. Thought is a protective mechanism. It is interested in
protecting itself at the expense of the living organism.
* You are saying that thought is the thing that causes people's worries.
It's thought that is creating all our problems and it is not the instrument to
help us solve the problems created by itself.
* You talk of a state that is entirely natural to man. I want to know if that
natural state can be acquired by effort--if it can be acquired at all--or is it
simply a chance occurrence?
When I use the term 'natural state' it is not a synonym for 'enlightenment',
'freedom', or 'God-realization' and so forth. Not at all. When the totality of
mankind's knowledge and experience loses its stranglehold on the body --
the physical organism--then the body is allowed to function in its own
harmonious way. Your natural state is a biological, neurological and
physical state.
* Then I presume that you agree with modern science, that it is the genes
that control our behavior and destinies.
I can make no definitive statements about the part genes play in the
evolutionary process but at the moment it appears that Darwin was at least

partially wrong in insisting that acquired characteristics could not be
genetically transmitted. I think that they are transmitted in some fashion. I
am not competent enough to say whether the genes play any part in the
transmission.
Anyway, the problem lies in our psyche. We function in a thought-sphere
and not in our biology. The separative thought structure, which is the
totality of man's thoughts, feelings, experiences and so on--what we call
'psyche' or 'soul' or 'self'--is creating the disturbance. That is what is
responsible for our misery; that's what continues the battle that is going on
there (in the human being) all the time. This interloper, the thought sphere,
has created your entire value system. The body is not in the least interested
in values, much less a value system. It is only concerned with intelligent
moment-to-moment survival, and nothing else. Spiritual 'values' have no
meaning to it. When, through some miracle or chance you are freed from
the hold of thought and culture, you are left with the body's natural
functions and nothing else. It then functions without the interference of
thought. Unfortunately, the servant, which is the thought structure that is
there, has taken possession of the house. But he can no longer control and
run the household. So he must be dislodged. It is in this sense that I use the
term 'natural state', without any connotation of spirituality or
enlightenment.
* Still, for most of us, many questions remain. We want to somehow find
out what life is, if it has any meaning.
Life is something which you cannot capture, contain and give expression
to. Energy is an expression of life. What is death? It is simply a condition
of the human body. There is no such thing as death. What you have are
ideas about death, ideas which arise when you sense the absence of another
person. Your own death, or the death of your near and dear ones, is not
something you can experience. What you actually experience is the void
created by the disappearance of another individual and the unsatisfied

demand to maintain the continuity of your relationship with that person for
a non-existent eternity. The arena for the continuation of all these
'permanent' relationships is the tomorrow--heaven, next life and so on.
These things are the inventions of a mind interested only in its undisturbed,
permanent continuity in a 'self'- generated, fictitious future. The basic
method of maintaining the continuity is the incessant repetition of the
question, 'How? How? How? How am I to live? How can I be happy? How
can I be sure I will be happy tomorrow?' This has made life an insoluble
dilemma for us. We want to know and through that knowledge we hope to
continue with our miserable existence forever.
* So many people in this society are interested in ....
Society cannot be interested in what I am talking about. Society is, after all,
two individuals or a thousand of them put together. Because I am a direct
threat to you individually--as you know and experience yourself--I am also
a threat to society. How can society possibly be interested in this sort of
thing? Not a chance. Society is the sum of relationships and despite what
you may find agreeable to believe, all these relationships are sordid and
horrible. This is the unsavory fact; take it or leave it. You cannot help but
superimpose over these horrible, ugly relationships a soothing fictitious
veneer of 'loving', 'compassionate', 'brotherly' and 'harmonious' or some
other fancy notion.
* I often ask myself, what are my obligations to my fellow beings?
None whatsoever.... Sorry. All you are interested in is self-fulfillment, the
ultimate goal of a Nobel Prize and power. I am very sorry. Personally, you
may not be interested in that kind of thing. That's all. I encourage that kind
of pursuit. Of course, you scientists have made all this comfort-bearing
technology possible and in that sense, I, like all those who enjoy the
benefits of modern technology, am indeed indebted. I don't want to go back

to the days of the spinning wheel and the bullock cart. That would be too
silly, too absurd. Pure science is nothing but speculation. Scientists discuss
formulas endlessly and provide us with some equations. But I am not at all
taken in by the 'march of progress' and all that rot. The first trip I made to
the US in the Thirties took more than a full day and we had to stop
everywhere. Later, the same trip took eighteen hours, then twelve hours and
even more recently, six hours and three and so on. And if the supersonic
jets are put to commercial use we may be able to make the trip in one-and-a-
half hours. All right, that's progress. But the same technology that makes
fast international travel possible is making ever more deadly military
fighter planes. How many of these planes are we using for faster and more
comfortable travel from one point to another? And how many more
hundreds of planes are we using to destroy life and property? You call this
progress? I don't know. As the comforts increase, we come to depend upon
them, and are loath to give up anything we have.
Within a particular frame I say it is progress. I am now living in an air-
conditioned room. My grandfather used a servant who sat in the hot sun
and pulled punkah and before that we used a palm leaf hand fan. As we
move into more and more comfortable situations we don't want to give up
anything.
* Some would argue that a humanity restored, not through science but
through love, is our only hope.
I still maintain that it is not love, compassion, humanism, or brotherly
sentiments that will save mankind. No, not at all. It is the sheer terror of
extinction that can save us, if anything can. Each cell of a living organism
cooperates with the cell next to it. It does not need any sentiment or
declarations of undying love to do so. Each cell is wise enough to know
that if its neighbor goes, it also goes. The cells stick together not out of
brotherhood, love and that kind of thing but out of the urgent drive to
survive now. It is the same with us but only on a larger scale. Soon we will

all come to know one simple thing: If I try to destroy you, I will also be
destroyed. We see the superpowers of today signing arms-control pacts,
rushing to sign no-first-strike accords and the like. Even the big bully boys,
who have among them controlled the world's resources no longer talk about
a successful nuclear war. Even the arrogant, swashbuckling United States
has changed its tune. It no longer talks--as it did twenty years ago under
Dulles and other cold warriors--of massive retaliation. If you read the Time
magazine now, it doesn't talk about the United States as the mightiest, the
richest, the most powerful and the most invincible of all nations. It refers to
it as 'one of the superpowers.'
* Somehow I do feel a responsibility to my fellow beings, not in a
philosophical or spiritual sense but in a more fundamental sense. You see
someone starving and you would like to do something about it.
As an individual you can. But the moment you start an institution and the
institutions try to enlist individuals' help, then the whole thing is destroyed.
You have to organize and there is no other way. That means my plan and
your plan. It means war.
* As you would say, the urge to help is a result of my culture. When you
see someone sad, tears come to your eyes. We empathize ....
We translate that as sadness and the tears follow as a sentimental effect.
But the tear ducts are there to protect your eyes from going blind, to keep
them lubricated and cleansed and not to respond to the suffering of others.
This may be a crude way of putting things but that's the fact of the matter.
* I would like to put to you one more question somewhat unrelated to what
we have been discussing: This is a question many people would like to ask
you. What is your opinion regarding the existence of God?
Oh my God! You really want my answer? To me the question of whether

God exists or not is irrelevant and immaterial. We have no use for God. We
have used God to justify the killing of millions and millions of people. We
exploit God. That's the positive aspect of it, not the negative. In the name of
God we have killed more people than in the two world wars put together. In
Japan, millions of people died in the name of the sacred Buddha. Here in
India, five thousand Jains were massacred in a single day. This is not a
peaceful nation! You don't want to read your own history--it's full of
violence from the beginning to the end.
* U.G., to most people, and at times to me, you sound totally absurd--I can't
understand much of what you say and neither can people who have read
your books at times make out what you are and yet there's something that
makes us take notice of you. It's the manner in which you say whatever you
say. There's a strange kind of certainty with which you say things. What
have you stumbled into?
There is no way I can tell you how I stumbled into what I stumbled into--
the 'how' and 'what' are problems that confront us. You don't realize that it
is the question which has created the problem and you have not accepted
the fact that solutions are responsible for the problems.
* Let's talk about the Valiums that we have surrounded ourselves with.
Success, the quest for Moksha etc., relationships--these are our Valiums but
of late, I see so many people I know, heading for a nervous breakdown.
What is the glue that we can get to hold us together? Is there a glue that can
keep mankind together?
What happens if the whole thing falls apart? Why are you frightened of the
chaos that may not result? Why are you frightened that there will be chaos?
Why do you want to hold on to things exactly the way they are? You may
talk of change but you are not really interested in change. What you are
interested in is change for the better but you don't realize that change is

occurring all the time. Your unwillingness to change with a changing
environment is responsible for the demand for a glue. There are so many
people marketing all kinds of glues but they will not help you at all....
* You see no hierarchy in the glue, religion, sexual pursuit, alcoholism.
Whether you use one or the other, it's okay by you but for us in society,
going into a church or mosque is acceptable while going into a whore
house or bar to find respite is condemned.
To you the demand for all those things is exactly the same but the society
in which we are living today considers certain actions as socially
acceptable and certain other actions anti-social. You may call yourself a
rebel, a revolutionary and break away but you will certainly create another
form no different and distinct from the structure in which you are caught
up. There is no such thing as a revolution at all. What you call revolution is
only a revaluation of your value system. The basic problem is the
impossibility of fitting yourself into the framework, so you want to create
another kind of a framework, a new way of thinking but basically and
actually and fundamentally there is no difference between the two.
* In the sexual act there is a possibility of experiencing that oneness.
Perhaps that is why sex has such a tremendous hold on our lives....
The idea that both man and woman can have the peak experience at the
same time is false because there is no way that you can prepare yourself to
have that moment of oneness in sexual activity. Probably animals have it
because there is no foreplay. Whether it is sex or God, once you are stuck
in it there is no way you can get out. That is the reason for the existence of
tantric sex. Mankind is committed to suicide. It may sound very pessimistic
to you but there is no way you can reverse it. Whatever is created has got to
go. Birth and death are simultaneous processes and there is no way you can
separate the two.

*So I cannot use this man called U.G., or what he says, to make things
permanent?
It is absurd on your part to demand permanence when there is no such thing
as permanence at all. Religious people sell shoddy goods in the market-
place, make you believe that they have some way of satisfying your
demand. Although they talk of impermanence, all the time they are
suggesting that there is a way that things can be permanent. Nothing is
permanent in nature.
* It's all right to write of transience, to discuss the concept but when man is
face to face with his own extinction....
He is not ready to face the fact that it is going to come to an end. As far as
the living organism is concerned there is nothing permanent. Your body,
which you have taken for granted, belongs to you. It is not demanding any
permanence but is, in a way, permanent. What you call death is a recycling
process and that is the only way that nature can enrich energy levels....
* So death is essential for the continuity of life....
Not in the sense in which you think of the continuity of life. In a way we
know that it is coming to an end which is why we have invented the 'life
after' reincarnation theory.
* So first you dream, then you die and life seems like one long process of
getting tired....
Not tired....
* To us life seems like a very long process of getting tired....
Because you have established a goal and all that you are doing is trying to

achieve that goal when there is no goal there at all.
* Is there no summing up, no full stops?
There is no way you can sum up what we have discussed.
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K. CHANDRASEKHAR
Thursday, July 07, 2005

K. CHANDRASEKHAR & U.G. KRISHNAMURTI -- Bangalore, India 1996
EXCERPTS FROM DIALOGUES WITH U.G. KRISHNAMURTI COMPILED FROM AUDIO TAPES BY K.
CHANDRASEKHAR, TRANSLATED AND EDITED BY J.S.R.L. NARAYANA MOORTY
My Approach
I am not a thinker in the sense in which the word is used. In fact, I have been pointing out to those that come to listen to
me that man's problems cannot be solved through thinking. Since he cannot solve his own problems through thinking, there
is no question of the world's problems being solved by any thinking by anybody.
This is the essence of my communication to those that come to listen to me. At the same time, I point out that it is also
not possible to communicate because no communication is possible and no communication is necessary.
So how do I go about this funny way? By making people realize that they cannot solve their problems through thinking.
They are suffering and the suffering must come to an end. How can man put an end to his suffering? Naturally, it runs

counter to all traditional approaches, both the Indian and Western religious approaches, and also the modern approaches,
the psychologists. And through conversation and communication we try to understand that it is really not possible to
understand or communicate what I am saying.
In other words, my objective in carrying on the conversation is to silence in a way, and put them in a state of silence. And
in that silence something can probably happen, and will certainly happen, that's all.
So I try to meet their arguments. They come with preconceived ideas, concepts and ideals, and then try to argue and
debate with me. My approach is to suggest a counterargument and thereby neutralize their argumentative approach to the
problem. This is all I do.
****
We all talk of the mind. The religious thinkers, the psychologists -- all talk of the mind. So every individual has to discover
for himself, by himself and without relying on any authority, be it religious, scientific or psychological. It has to be your
discovery. Otherwise, it has no value.
The state of being I am describing is a state where there is no effort at all. I am just a mirror here reflecting things
exactly.
It Is Bound to Affect the Whole Human Consciousness
The human race will somehow survive. But the only thing that one can do is to free himself, because it is a pure, unsullied
and uncontaminated consciousness that is operating. So it is bound to affect all those who come into its orbit. You don't
have to do a thing. You can sit in one corner of the world, yet it is bound to affect the whole of human consciousness
because it is the same, it is exactly the same. It has no frontiers, it has no boundaries. So it is bound to affect the whole
human consciousness. That is why I say that this so-called religious experience is an explosion. When this explosion takes
place it is bound to affect the whole of human consciousness. You cannot measure it. It is not a thing to measure and
statistically prove that so many people have been benefited by it. It is a very slow process. It takes time.
It is not a spectacular thing. You cannot produce results with all those that come into contact. Not all those that come
into the presence of this consciousness have exploded.
And this happens to one in a million. Not because of what he does or does not do; but because it just happens. You call it
grace, chance or...

Thinking Is the Problem
What causes the pain there? It's not your inability to do... "I just can't do a thing," you begin to think. Thinking is the
problem. Sadness is not the problem but thinking about sadness is the problem.
Stop thinking. Can you stop thinking? You are trying to stop. That means thinking. I am not suggesting that you should not
think. Thought is you. If you are not thinking you are not there. Nothing is there. What is there will begin to express itself.
Let that express. Then there is no question. Just leave that alone. It will begin to act.
You perpetuate sorrow through your thinking.
Nothing is wrong with you at all. You don't have the courage. Accepting whatever there is is courage. That is intelligence.
"I don't want to be other than what I am." That is the courage. It is there! It is not a thing to be acquired.
You Are That Movement of Thought
It is very difficult to understand the area between opposites. If I say I have no friends, it does not mean that I have
enemies. If I say that I have no enemies, it does not mean that everybody is a friend to me.
So how can you understand the state of being where you have neither friends nor enemies?
So you always swing like a pendulum from one end to the other. That is the movement of thought. It is always between
these pairs of opposites. You cannot conceive a state of being where these pairs of opposites do not exist at all.
Q: But why is it so natural?
U.G.: Don't say it is so natural. It is so unnatural -- the unnatural thing you have accepted as natural. That is our tragedy.
You have never questioned that, because, if you begin to question, your existence is at stake. You are that. You are not
different from this movement of thought.
What is necessary for you is to understand the machinery that is functioning inside of you -- the movement of thought.
Supposing I tell you, "This is the way," -- then where are you? You experience what I tell you. This knowledge you are going
to use and create a state of being and think that you have experienced God, that you have experienced Reality or that you
have experienced truth. But that is not the truth. That is not God.

The Courage to Be Yourself
You have never let desire just stay there without tampering. That is life. What can you do without desire? The more you
want to tamper with it the more it is suffering. You are always suffering because you want to be other than what you are.
You just don't have the courage to be yourself. That means you have to be alone in this world -- one without a second.
Questioning the Movement of Thought
Somebody looked at the millipede and wondered how this small, tiny little worm is able to walk with a thousand legs. So,
he asked the question, "How do you manage to walk? I find it so difficult to walk with my two legs." And so the millipede
started thinking. And it died.
In exactly the same way, the moment you begin to question the movement of thought inside of you, you will find that you
are ending up in a very surprising situation -- which is a very frightening thing for you.
Samadhi and Ultimate Samadhi
There is no use of your talking as if you are born. You are never born and you never die. How can there be any death when
you are not born?
Neither your birth nor your death can become part of your experiencing structure. That experiencing structure must come
to an end. Every one of you will become a self-realized man 48 minutes before you die. I can assure you. But it will be too
late. Your body is not in a position to take it. Otherwise, you cannot die. The death always takes place in an unconscious
state. You will never die in a conscious state. So these 48 minutes is the time when you attain moksha, liberation or
whatever you call it. Why do you want to wait till your body becomes useless? You might as well die to the whole thing
and begin to live, live in the sense that you understand that there is no beginning and no end.
***
The senses are functioning at their peak capacity all the time. They cannot go on. So every now and then -- that is decided
by the circumstances and not by any entity inside -- the defenses must be cut out from outside challenges. So the eyes
may be open but you see nothing because the senses are tired. The recovery takes exactly 48 minutes -- the so-called

Samadhi. But the ultimate Samadhi -- I don't want to use the word -- it is very misleading -- it is one second by the clock.
This body, this nervous system cannot stand that. It is its physical death. You come to the point of physical death -- it is
not the death of the mind, death of the psyche or the death of thought. The body goes through the process of physical
death and why it comes back God alone knows.
Basic Needs
Food, clothing and shelter -- these are the basic needs. Beyond that, if you want anything, it is the beginning of self-
deception.
Discover Your Own Path Rejecting All Others
The path has to be yours. I don't want to use the term path, because it has mystical... My path, Ramakrishna's path,
Jesus's path or the Buddha's path -- they are all worthless. Nobody can come into this unless or until all the other paths are
rejected by him. Then it becomes his own path. So only if you reject all the other paths can you discover your own path.
Just look at yourself and find out what the hell you are doing with yourself, how you are kidding yourself all the time --
how you follow the path of this man, that man and the other man. You are not interested in my path. The path is not
going to lead you anywhere. And the path is going to give you what that man has experienced.
Silence Is Brahman
How can you understand that silence -- chaotic or otherwise? Is it possible for you to capture that silence? When that
silence starts operating through you, it is something extraordinary, something vital and living. This structure which is
trying to understand the nature of it, capture it, contain it or give expression to it, cannot co-exist with it.
The difficulty is you seem to know a lot about this state -- you have imagination. You imagine it to be what is described as
"Silence is Brahman" and begin to think about it. This imagination must go. That is something living and the structure
which is trying to capture it is a dead structure. You are all dead. You are not living human beings at all. You have never
known one living moment in your life. You are living the lives of your thoughts. All thoughts are dead -- it doesn't matter

whose thoughts -- whether those of Shankara, of Ramanuja or of the hundreds of sages, saints and saviors we have had and
perhaps have still. It is useless to try to understand that. How can you capture it?
If there is any such thing as silence, chaotic or otherwise, living or dead, it will begin to express itself. When it expresses
itself you are not there. So, you will never know the nature of that silence at all. What you call silence is not silence at
all.
Thinking Cannot Solve Your Problems
Q: You say that the silence will express itself. How is it that it failed in our case?
U.G.: Because you are waiting for the silence to express itself or because you still have the knowledge of that silence.
Q: If the natural state is an equilibrium how comethis disturbance?
U.G.: Because you are pursuing and seeking a phony equilibrium which does not exist at all, and this is the thing which has
been put into you by your culture and society. It is the knowledge of self or silence that is creating this disturbance. The
idea or concept of silence you have about silence is causing this disturbance. You are that idea and you want to
understand how that idea has come into being.
Q: Is there a way to be thinking and at the same time be free from the limitations of thinking?
U.G.: No. That will be another, parallel, movement of thought. It is a mechanical thing and can solve only mechanical
problems. But you want to use it to understand something living. That is the problem, it is not intended for that. Human
problems are something living. You cannot use thinking to solve those problems.
Beauty
What is beauty? Where is beauty? Is it in the object or in the eye?
You project your idea of beauty on the object you are looking at. That is all. There is a beautiful sunset there. The
moment you even say to yourself that it is beautiful, you are not looking at it at all.
Beauty is not in the object. It is not in the beholder's eye either. It is in the total abandonment of yourself.
So, what is beauty? You really don't know. You wouldn't know what you are looking at. And in that state of not knowing
what is there fills the whole of your being. That you may call beauty. But there is nobody who describes that beauty and

says he is enjoying it. If you capture that in terms of your experiencing structure, then it is lost.
Philosophy of Life
Q: What is your philosophy of life?
U.G.: None whatsoever. Do you need a philosophy to live? Do you need to know the purpose of life and meaning of life
live? You are not living. For only a dead person is interested in asking such questions, not a living man.
Whatever meaning you give to life, those ideas are picked up from here, there and everywhere. If it has any meaning, I
would never know.
***
Q: How do you distinguish the living from the dead? You say that we are dead.
U.G.: Any question that comes from anybody is born out of death, not out of a living thing.
You Will Never Know a Jivanmukta
Q: What are the features of a Jivanmukta or a jnani or a yogi?
U.G.: I wish I knew. If a Jivanmukta is sitting right in front of you, you will never know. You have no way of knowing
whether a man is a Jivanmukta. You have a definition, a behavior pattern. If he fits into that framework, you call him a
Jivanmukta. If there is anyone like that, he will never know that he is a self-realized man or a Jivanmukta. You have been
told by somebody that I am a Jivanmukta. I may be a phony, a clever chap. I have picked up the art of elocution and all
that. I have travelled around the world. Any actor could do that. How would you know?
This Has No Religious Content
What I have been trying to say to those that come to listen to me and to those that care to listen to me is that what I have
been saying has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. We have all been told, and some of us have been brought up with
the belief, that by accepting certain beliefs and trying to live up to them in our daily life, and by due steps, we can aspire
to become religious or whatever you want to call it. I am only describing a state of being which is a pure and simple
physical and physiological state of being. It has no religious content. It has no mystical overtones at all.

Probably you want to discuss very serious subjects like attachment and detachment, refinement, sensitivity, and so on and
so forth. I have precious little to say on those subjects. You will practice attachment or detachment for the rest of your
life, but will never be free from either attachment or detachment. You will always be caught up in the two.
Selflessness
Selflessness is a great big myth. Anything you do, any movement in any direction on any level is strengthening the self.
This Is Not an Experience
This is not an experience. I cannot share it with you. If it is an experience, I can at least try to make you experience it
through words, through descriptions, through phrases, through painting and musical compositions and so on.
You cannot capture this, contain this or give expression to this. This is outside the range of experience.
I don't know if you see the total helplessness of the situation.
It Is a Molecular Activity in the Brain Cells
The eyes are there like two camera lenses. You don't have to do a thing at all. That is moving the lenses. It is just a
reflection of that on the retina -- like a mirror. You do not look into the index card system and say to yourself that it is a
mountain.
This is what I mean when I say that it is a pure and simple chemical activity, a molecular activity in the brain cells.
Nothing else. You don't have a religious mind. There is no mind apart from thought. There is nothing.
***
The mind is always closed in. As long as the mind is there, it is that which is preventing you from understanding things.
Sensitivity and Total Attention
You can talk of total attention. But it is not that. The object that is outside of you is demanding total attention. Not you.
When that demands total attention, you cannot even blink. When the eyes stay open for a long time, they become dry.

And you may even go blind. That is a pathological condition. But there is a built-in mechanism. The other glands are
activated and they supply the water.
The sensitivity is the sensitivity of the senses. As long as you interfere with the senses, that is gone.
Religion Is Filth
All the religions -- no matter what country they come from -- what all they teach you, all that is false. Because that is not
real. That is falsifying you.
There isn't anything you can do. But you are still doing. There isn't anything to be done. You listen to some chap talking
and to the descriptions of somebody. You open a book and read. There is nothing to be done whatsoever. If that is so, you
wouldn't listen to anybody. You wouldn't read any books, except those you need to make a living. You wouldn't touch this
stuff. If you touch it, you need a detergent to wash your hands. It is so filthy because it is false. You will have nothing to
do with it.
You Cannot Be Aware
Do you know what you mean by the word aware? Probably you use it in the sense that I think, I feel and so on. It is very
important to understand. The dictionary says, the condition of being aware.
You cannot be aware of anything. Somebody has fed people with this kind of bum-dole. You have been fed so long on this
bunk that anybody saying anything on this probably creates some kind of indigestion there. You want the same thing
there. What exactly do you mean by aware? You cannot be aware. There is no you. When there is an awareness there is no
you. It is not there. It is aware of itself. It sounds mystical, but it is so. The anger or the feeling is aware of itself.
The you separates you from that. That is the movement of thought. There is nothing else other than what you are looking
at.
***
My emphasis is that awareness cannot be separated from the activity of the brain. It cannot be used as an instrument to
understand anything, much less to bring about any change.

The Purpose of My Conversation
Questioning is not a hallmark of intelligence. Cessation of questioning is intelligence.
You do not seem to realize that it is not possible for you to break yourself free from the methods of thought that prevent
you from seeing the limitations of all these concepts and direct experiences.
These are all metaphysical questions. I have no answers for any metaphysical questions because I am not thinking
metaphysically. I am not thinking in concepts. You may very well ask whether it is possible to use words without concepts.
I say it is possible. There is no content to these words. These are not born out of any concept. They are just words.
To imagine that there is a state of nonverbal conceptualization is just a myth.
The purpose of this conversation is to enable you to break free from the methods of thought as a means to understand
anything.
***
I cannot help you. You cannot help yourself. This is the situation. I want to push into... Maybe it helps.
The Knowledge You Have About the Mind Is the Mind
The knowledge you have about the mind is the mind. If it is possible for you to be free from this knowledge, then there is
no mind. The mind and the knowledge you have about the mind are one and the same. There may be something like the
mind, but you will never know that. It can't become part of your conscious thinking.
Wanting Is Thinking
Wanting is thinking. As long as you want to do anything -- "I want to understand myself," "I want to be free from this
movement of thought..." is thinking. You need thinking just to function in this world but other than that, anything you
want is thinking. You get the material for thinking always from somebody. Otherwise, there is no thinking.
***
Love is also thinking. "I love my wife," "I love my house," "I love my bank account" -- all that is thinking. That is why I say
that it is destructive. If there is any such thing as love, there is no thinking. No relationship.
What you call love is just a vibration. If it is not reciprocated, it turns itself into either apathy or hatred.

Monkeys Who Sit Around the Red Ocher
I was telling my friends yesterday about the simile we had in one of our books. Those who go to listen to spiritual
discourses, those who read books of a religious nature, and those who are looking beyond for something are like the
monkeys who sit around the red ocher trying to warm themselves. You know what red ocher is. It is red in color, just like
flame, but there is no warmth.
There isn't anything that you can get from any religious or spiritual discourses. What I have been trying to point out to
those that come to listen to me and care to listen to me is that there is nothing to achieve, nothing to accomplish, and
nothing to attain. What is it that you want? And what is it that you are searching for? That is my question. If you are
searching for anything, if you want anything, then the first thing you must do is to throw away lock, barrel and stock and
book, bell and the candle, the stuff you are hanging on to. You have to throw the whole lot into the cocked hat.
Otherwise, there isn't any chance for you to be yourself. If you follow any path -- it doesn't matter what that path is -- it is
leading you astray. It is putting you on the wrong path. If you make anything out of what I have been saying, then you are
lost, body and soul. And, if there is a God, out of sheer mercy He should save you all and save you from me and persons
like me.
One thing I make very clear: I am not here to liberate you at all. What is it that you want to liberate yourself from? You
are trying to ask for a thing which you have.
Burning of Thought Is Energy
Burning of thought is energy. That is life. Combustion of thought. Another kind of energy is created by the will: the
thought sphere, the antenna. Sensations are also thoughts. Anger is energy. You will never be free from thoughts. Alchemy
is burning of thought.
Since I don't know what I am saying, I say I am not telling you the same thing as the "Old Man" [J. Krishnamurti]. What I am
saying is not the product of thinking. These words are just coming out. I am describing the state of being. It requires a
tremendous courage to be yourself.

There Is Nothing to Do
As long as you ask yourself the question, "Why not me? Why should this happen to somebody else?" there isn't any chance
of your making it. I have to use the words "making it," because you are all trying to make it -- whatever it is you want to
make.
It's a thing which you cannot reach or make -- [it's not a] reachable or gettable thing. All this search -- the search for this
non-existent thing, that thing called `enlightenment' seems futile to me. And the futility of this search is what I have been
trying to communicate to those that come to see me and care to listen to me. I also explain that the so-called
enlightenment, self- realization, God-realization, or what you will, is a pure and simple physical and physiological state of
being. It is just the pulse, beat and throb of life.
There is nothing to do. You are all the time interested in doing something. That is the one thing where you don't have to
do a thing. If you can be that, just be that, you are in that state. You are not in my state or somebody else's state. That is
your state. That is the natural state.
That is the way you are all functioning. What prevents that to give expression to it is this movement of thought.
You are all thinking about it. That is the thing which you can never capture through thinking.
On Art and Artists
She is a painter. She can understand what I am trying to point out. If she wants really to paint how you look like, she will
never be able to do that. She is projecting the idea. She has abstracted from the object that is there: "This is probably the
way the person is like...."
So, she is putting the idea or abstraction of what she is looking at onto the canvas and she says, "This is the picture." So,
she cannot -- if she were a real artist -- she will never be able to paint or make a portrait of him. It is impossible. That's
the real artist. These are not the artists -- not these people who put you on canvas. These are just technicians. I am sorry.
So, there is no such thing as an artist at all. He is just a technician. He or she has learned the technique of painting. They
are just technicians, artisans, like the carpenters, masons, etc.
Your Life Is Centered Around Eating

Q: I think that your talking carries your message.
U.G.: No. The talking is always emphasizing that there is no message. That is the talking. If that is what you call a
message, then yes. The message is that there is no message.
Q: Is there any conscious effort on your part in giving expression to....
U.G.: How can there be any conscious effort? Whatever comes out of me is the expression of that state. There is no
conscious effort at all. I am not conscious of anything at any time except when there is a need for it.
Q: There is this Charvaka Siddhantam [the Charvaka doctrine] -- that you have only to eat and be merry.
U.G.: ... and borrow money and never repay. The Charvaka emphasizes the reality of the world. Here he is [sounds]
something like a revisionist. But I say this reality which you have taken for granted is not so real as it appears to be. Quite
the opposite. I am not recommending that you should drink, eat and be merry.
Q: Do you mean to say that anything one does is a waste of time?
U.G.: Eating is not a waste of time. The whole of your life is centered around eating, Sir! Your working there in the office
for eight hours [a day] and making money -- the whole thing is centered around eating. Your education, your marriage also
-- so that somebody could cook for you, your children -- so that they can maintain you in your old age -- everything is the
extension of the same activity.
Q: All activities, then, are for the sake of nothing but eating....
U.G.:That's all. How much can you eat? Why do you want such a huge bank balance? You want your children, great grand
children -- all of them to be secure. Ultimately your house, your food, your pleasures -- that is all you are concerned with.
"Be Selfish and Stay Selfish" Is My Message
I am not saying anything against your bank balance or concern for yourself. I want you to do that [keep them].
Man is always selfish and will remain selfish as long as he practices selflessness. I have nothing against selfish people
because that is a reality. I don't want you to talk about selflessness. That has really no basis at all. "Tomorrow" you will be
a marvelous man. When tomorrow arrives you push it to day-after-tomorrow, or next life. But until then you will stay
selfish.
I have never said to anybody, "Don't be selfish." "Be selfish and stay selfish," that is my message. Wanting enlightenment is

selfishness. Charity is selfishness.
"Divine Despair" -- an Involvement
The change is only tomorrow. You can't do anything about that. When tomorrow arrives you push to day-after-tomorrow,
next life.
That is where this Existentialism comes into the picture. It creates a despair in you. If you are really interested in bringing
about change, you will find that you cannot really do anything. The absurdity of wanting to change dawns on you. On that
foundation they have built this tremendous structure of thought called despair.
There are two schools of thought -- religious and atheistic. J.P.Sartre, the French writer, belongs to the latter one.
They also talked of divine despair. It is always related to hope. One cannot exist without the other. Hope of things
changing for the better, hope of finding some guru who can enlighten you.
Q: Is it possible to do anything without any involvement?
U.G.: It is possible. That means there is no relationship at all. All relationships are based on involvement. There are only
temporary relationships as with your landlord. They are purely temporary.
Q: We get involved unfortunately with everything we do. If I marry I get involved. If I don't marry, I get involved.
U.G.: To practice non-involvement is meaningless. You are just not involved. That's all. There is no emotional content in
the involvement. I have neither rights nor duties.
Your Approach
You can never say anything about what I am saying. If there is to be any understanding about what is being said here, it
must express itself there. Then you will not talk about me. You will not explain me to somebody. You will explain yourself.
That will be something new, something radical, something extraordinary.
The ideal situation should be not to remember these things, not to recapitulate things, not to discuss these things with
yourself or with somebody or ruminate. You just walk out. You will never come back.
If you listen to me year after year, you are only clarifying your thoughts. It is useless. If you go out without recalling
anything that is talked about, that would be the best thing. Don't recall anything. Can you do that?

They Interest Me
...Sometimes I read the Time magazine. Even there I am not involved. I am not involved with what I am reading. I don't
even know what I am reading sometimes. It is very strange: when I read crime fiction, the suspense doesn't interest me at
all. I am not involved with the build up of suspense. Just read the sentences and action ... somebody kills somebody
else....
That is why I see mythological movies: Hanuman flying across the ocean and carrying Sanjeeva Parvata, his tail -- those
are the things that interest me. I read Chandamama -- interesting stories. Comic stuff. Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse --
comic strips interest me.
You Are Very Safe, You Can't Blast Me
U.G.: What I am saying will create and intensify the neurotic situation there. Don't listen to me. Fortunately you have a
very thick skin. Nothing is going to penetrate that. You are safe. Gowdapada provides the gloves, the Bhagavad Gita
provides a coat jacket. Brahmasutras provide a leather bullet-proof trousers. So, you are safe.
Q: You are condemning whatever has been said before. Don't you think you may also be condemned and blasted...
U.G.: If you have the guts, I will be the first person to salute you. You can't do that because you are relying upon the Gita
and the Upanishads -- not upon yourself. If you have the guts, you will be the only person who can make what I am saying
false. You don't have to say that. I myself am saying that what I am saying is false as far as you are concerned.
A Gowdapada could do it but he is not here. You are reading and repeating what Gowdapada had said. It is a worthless
statement as far as you are concerned.
Q: It is a hopeless situation.
U.G.: The situation is not hopeless. You want to be in that hopeless situation because you don't want to be free from
selfishness, from fear, jealousy, envy, etc. The hope is in selfishness, the hope is in greed, in anger, in jealousy, and not
in the practice of opposites.

You Don't Want This
Anything I do to help you would be adding to your misery, that's all. You add one more misery to those you already have,
by listening to me. To that extent it is doing no good to you.
***
Freeing yourself from any one of these things is the end of you. Please, in your interest, out of compassion I am telling
you: this is not what you want. This is not something you can make happen. It is not in your hands. Whomsoever it
chooses, it hits him. If you really want moksha that can happen now. Everybody will attain moksha just a few minutes, or
hours as the case may be, before the black van arrives to reduce the body to ashes.
What you want you can get elsewhere. "Go to the temple, go around the tree, hang from the tree. Repeat this mantra and
put on ashes." Then somebody comes along and says, "Do this and give me a week's wages of yours." Some other fellow
comes along saying, "Don't do all that. What I am saying is more revolutionary: be choicelessly aware," and then builds
schools, organizations and tantric centers....
Why Do I Talk?
My dialogue has no meaning at all. You may very well ask me why the hell I am talking. I assure you that it is not at all in
the nature of self-fulfillment in my case. What I am doing is not a motiveless thing. Your coming here creates a sort of
motive. I feel that I must help you, that you are suffering, that you want some answers to your questions. There is a
temporary motive. It is to make clear that there is nothing to understand.
Why Stop the Past?
Why should you stop the past from interfering with the present? You have been brainwashed by all those holy men, gurus,
teachers and the so-called enlightened people that the past should die, should come to an end. "If you attain this, life
would be hunky-dory -- full of sweetness." You have fallen for all that romantic stuff. If you try to suppress the past and
try to be in the present, it will drive you crazy. You are trying to control something which is beyond your control.

It is not only your past. It's the entire past, entire existence of every human being and every form of life. It is not such an
easy thing. It is like trying to stop this flow of the river through all those artificial means. It will inundate the whole thing.
What is it that you can do? Anything you do in any direction, at any level, is perpetuating that.
It's Meaningless to Ask the Meaning of Life
U.G.: Why talk of meaning of life? Why do you want to mystify? You are here somehow. There may not be any meaning.
You obviously see no meaning in life. Everything you do seems absolutely meaningless.
Q: There must be some goal, aim....
U.G.: The moment the baby is born the goal is to survive -- that is the instinct. To feed itself, survive and reproduce one
like itself. That seems to be the way of life. Life is expressing itself, that's all.
The body is responding to the stimuli -- the pulse, beat and throb of life. When those things stop, then what you call
clinical death takes place.
But life is still continuing, but not in the way you want. The form disintegrates into the constituent elements and that
becomes the basis for another form of life. Anyway, that is no consolation to you because the instrument you are using to
understand the meaning of life is interested only in continuing.
Samskara
Samskara is conditioning. Tradition is another word for it. That is what you are, what you call you. You cannot change it.
Modify it and it continues. The whole thing is pathological. You separate the pathological and psychological. But actually
there is only the pathological. Samskara is pathological conditioning.
Conditioning Is Intelligence
It is not possible for you to be without conditioning. No matter what you do, you are conditioned. The unconditioning that
the spiritual gurus are talking about in the market place is a bogus affair. You will find out. Anything you do is
conditioning. What you have to be free from is the desire to be free from conditioning. Conditioning is intelligence. This
conditioning I am talking about is happening in a different way -- not the ideations and mentations.

Belief
Belief is an extension of yourself, not an abstraction. It is like the habit of drinking or smoking. The more you try to stop
it, the stronger grows the habit. You talk of faith when you are not sure. Belief -- where is the need for faith?
When belief is not producing the results you expect of that, you introduce what is called faith. You must have faith in that
belief. That means hope.
Morality
Only a man who is talking of moral things is the one who can be immoral. Since there is no such thing as immorality for
me, I do not preach morals. That's all. I cannot take any moral position. The one who talks of morals and devotion is a
humbug.
Religious Business
The whole religious business is nothing but moral codes of conduct. It is a social thing -- nothing religious about it. There is
no difference between the policeman and the religious man. The religious man puts the policeman inside you. It is more
difficult to handle the policeman inside you. You can corrupt the policeman out there.
Cultures Create a Lopsided Situation
All these cultures, oriental or occidental, have created this lopsided situation for man and turned him into a neurotic
individual. For example, kindness -- in the very nature of things it is not possible to emphasize only kindness and
selflessness. Violence is part of nature. You have to kill something to survive. One form of life lives on another form of
life. But you have condemned killing. Our culture has emphasized the one and only kindness. That is why this suffering of
man, tremendous sorrow for man, because he is trying to have the one without the other.

Pleasure and Pain
Both extremes -- pleasure and intense pain -- are painful for the body. The response is the same as far as the body is
concerned. The body has no independent existence, as it is not separate from what you call pleasure or pain. The
vibrations may be different. The intensity of each vibration may be different. You demand a particular sensation. So you
divide them -- good and bad.
Falling Asleep
When there is great suffering and depression, you go to sleep. You fall asleep. It is nature's way of taking care of the
situation. It's the same with doing the Gayatri Japa. Since you can't stop doing that you go to sleep.
...Why do you smoke cigarettes? It also does the same as Ram Nam. Having a glass of beer or a cigarette is the same as
repeating Ram Nam. You attach significance to Ram Nam.
Bliss and the Body
The body is interested in its survival and reproducing one like itself. The only way it can reproduce itself is through the
use of thought. So thought is very essential for the survival of the living organism. The body is not interested in spiritual
activity or psychological activity. None of the spiritual experiences are of any value to the body. On the other hand, they
create a tremendous strain. The bliss, beatitude, love, compassion -- all those that the religious man had placed before us
are only adding to the strain of the body.
Deep Sleep and Turiya
Why are you talking of deep sleep? If there is any such thing as deep sleep, it is not possible for any individual who is in
deep sleep to know anything about that. So, don't talk about deep sleep. Deep sleep is the death of the whole body -- not
the fancy dying to your yesterdays. The body goes through what is called a clinical death at the moment when there is
deep sleep. At that moment there is no body there. The body may or may not come back from that deep sleep. If, due to
some strange chance, it comes back to life and is able to renew itself, the whole life -- genetically programmed life -- is

there.
After this deep sleep there is no more sleep for the body.
***
You are talking of the turiya state where there is no division. Do you know what you are talking about? All your sadhana is
the very thing that is creating the division there. Through knowing you think, you will become. Maybe that fellow who
talked about it was in a state of bliss. What good is that? If you experience that, it is false. If you touch the man, it is
false.
The atman is created by that junk Mandukya Upanishad. You don't have to get drunk to understand sobriety.
You Have to Be Saved from the Very Idea That You Have to Be Saved
You have to be saved from the very idea that you have to be saved. If it has to happen, it has to happen now. The chance
is here, now, not tomorspiritual matters is a candidate for the lunatic asylum. The line of demarcation between the mystic
and the madcap is very thin. This one madcap is a clinical case and the other is on the way.
When You Know Nothing
When you know nothing, you say a lot. But when you know something, there is nothing to say.
Experiencing the Body
This body, you see, whose body is it? I have no way of saying to myself, "This is my body." I have no way of directly
experiencing this body for myself. Not experiencing funny little things called separation of the body -- that is a
neurological disorder. Many people have experienced the separation of their body. A neurological disorder can bring about
the separation of the body -- as if you are something different, you experience your own body. That is not what I talking
about. I cannot separate myself at all, because there is nothing here to separate myself from.
Who Is Crazy?

There was a psychiatrist, a leading psychiatrist, who came to see me in Marseilles. We talked for hours and hours and
days. He wanted to be with me all the time. He was one of the top notch psychiatrists and psychologists. One day I think
he remained with me for 24 hours. He talked, talked and talked. "This is a textbook case, a mental case, you know. I
should put you in the hospital for the way you talk," he said, "but there is one question I really don't know, whether I am
insane or you are insane." So he left his job after that encounter with me. Luckily he had some other degree. He had
specialized in tropical medicine and left psychiatry. "What I am doing in the hospital is something terrible," he said. He
went away because he thought that if he had remained with me for long he would go crazy. I never saw him again.
About God and Prayers
To have only pleasure without a moment of pain is just not possible. That is why you have invented enlightenment,
eternal happiness, God, ultimate pleasure. What is that quotation, "When you talk to God, it is called prayer, and when
God talks to you, you are called crazy." All your interests are materialistic.
Why do you pray to God? What do you want him to give you? Why should he? It is like the man who loses in his business.
Somebody else is gaining, like in the stock market. On whose side should God be? How many millions of gods have you
invented! We have seventy crores of gods. Double the number now. We have to find new animals for their vehicular
movements. The old species are extinct now.
How can such a God who is supposed to be all merciful answer your prayers? That God is a crook. If he wants you to pray
to give you whatever you want, something is funny there. He should give to everybody without prayer. The one who prays
gets the goodies and the one who doesn't pray, like me, loses everything. What kind of God is he!

Introduction
It was in the first years of my acquaintance with U.G. Prior to 1973, for four years, U.G. and Valentine had been coming
every winter to Bangalore and staying there for three or four months at a time.
In 1973 U.G. wrote to me suggesting that I should look for a permanent residence for them, and thus avoid having to find a
house each time they visited Bangalore. Henry, a friend of U.G.'s from England, had a house and a business office in
Bombay, and U.G. and Valentine had been guests in their house ever since they started visiting India after the Calamity.
However, Henry's business in Bombay had closed and U.G. needed another place to stay. Henry felt that U.G. should not
be inconvenienced, so he offered three hundred pounds a year to U.G. for accommodations elsewhere. This was the same
amount of money he had been giving to Sri Anandamayi Ma and Sri Ramana Maharshi's Ashram. U.G. suggested that we
should use those funds to pay for the new house in Bangalore.
My friend Sivaram showed me a new three story-house called Sastri Sadana in Basavanagudi, facing the Anjaneya Temple.
The construction of the house was nearing completion. After talking to the owner, Mr. Viswanatha Sastri, I wrote to U.G.
describing the location and other details of the house. I offered to rent the house if he wanted me to.
A reply came at once asking me to go ahead.
Later, Valentine told me that U.G., on one of his morning walks the previous year, happened to notice the same house
while it was under construction. Apparently, he already had the feeling that they two would be living in that house, long
before he had any idea that I would rent it for him. After receiving my letter in Switzerland, he even described to
Valentine the surroundings of the house in minute detail. I was surprised to hear this from her.
For a person like U. G. who says, "If a thought enters my head, it has to take effect," this coincidence is nothing
extraordinary. But for someone like me, who does not observe events such as these often, they are indeed marvelous.
U.G. makes fun of me for saying such things. He says, "Chandrasekhar is writing a book of all the miracles and marvels that
I have never performed." One day, Julie heard this and said smiling, "Chandrasekhar himself is a miracle. What's wrong
with writing about your miracles?" How true! When I look back and reflect on whatever happened to me after U.G. entered
my life, my whole life looks like a marvel.

In those days, every word that U.G. uttered sounded wonderful. It was child's play for U.G. to upset ancient truths and
demolish, in a second, beliefs which seemed sacred and precious.
U.G. made statements such as:
Liberation means total extinction. It means the extinction of 'you' as you know yourself and as you experience yourself.
Why would anyone desire such a thing?
Bliss, wisdom, permanent happiness, jivanmukti, rebirth -- all such ideas are all stories concocted by you. Mere illusions.
It's a waste of time to seek such nonexistent things.
When we heard such pronouncements of U.G., the ground under our feet which we so trusted seemed to cave in. All our
illusions were destroyed and we tried to run away from ourselves in fright without ever looking back.
Is there any way out? All this -- the incessant striving and search -- is all this a waste of time?
No. There is one solace. That is U.G. himself. If he weren't as he is, there would be no need to write any of this.
In the early days of my association with U.G., I collected much information about U.G. with the intention of writing his
biography. I kept a journal believing that it would be useful for this purpose some time later.
"Why do you want to tell my story?" asked U.G. one day.
"You are a unique product of human history. Everyone must know about you."
"How has this been of use to you? How did your acquaintance with me all these years help you?" I didn't expect such a
straight question from U.G. I kept pondering for awhile. "If it didn't help you, it's an illusion to think that it would help
someone else," U.G. said, brushing aside my good intention. It was hard to figure out what U.G. meant by 'being of use.'
"What I am saying is that there is nothing to understand, and there is no need to understand. If you get the 'hang' of this,
you will never want to see my face again. Not only that; you won't go to anyone else either, seeking the meaning of life.
That will be the end of your search," said U.G. That is what U.G. meant by [his teaching] being "useful."
Was there no other usefulness, then? The same question haunted me even after I returned home that night.
That night was the holy night of Siva Ratri. It was truly the Siva Ratri (it is customary to keep a watch on that night). I still
remember giving form to thoughts which arose in my mind that night. Thus twenty years ago I resolved that if I ever
published U.G.'s biography, I should include these two poems:
I

You say there is no faith, no mind
You do not accept a single teacher
You reject Siva and his powers
You teach us to see ourselves as Siva
You stress that release is empty
You forbid practices vehemently
You smile at me in pity when I ask you how I will attain that State
I wrote your story in Telugu, who knows how defective it is
With this I give myself to you
Please accept this gift, U.G.
II
You loosened my worldly bonds and formed my character
When everyone made fun of me you stood by me as my shadow
When all those I trusted let me down
You held me by my hand and took me to the shore
When my life was dreary you gave me a new one.
You patted me on my shoulder, gave me strength and made me stand like a man
I salute you and your magnificence.
October 15, 1964 was an unforgettable day in my life. That was the day when I first met Mr. Chalam(1) who was firmly
implanted in Arunachala.
It was the day when my friendship through correspondence, which began in my student days, took me in my nineteenth
year into his presence. I said to him incidentally, "I sometimes feel like writing something."
Chalam looking steadily into my eyes asked, "For whose sake?" I was stunned. I had never asked myself that question.
True, whom should I write for? For others or for myself? After a while Chalam spoke again, "'Is it just for ourselves that we
write, because we can't live without writing?' -- That question must keep arising till we feel that way." Exactly 28 years
later I feel that I have the right answer to that question.

Ever since I made friends with U.G., Chalam and Nartaki shared my enthusiasm, my joys and sorrows and vibrated with
me. Chalam is no longer with us. Nartaki has settled down in Arunachala. When a draft of what I wrote about U.G. was
read to him, Chalam nodded his head in satisfaction and said, "Good." I was amazed at myself. Chalam talked about U.G.
in every letter he wrote to me in those days.
Chalam travelled to Bangalore to see U.G. year after year, disregarding his own ill health. Because U.G. noticed something
special about Chalam, he travelled to Arunachala when Chalam was on his death bed. This pleased Chalam and other
inmates of Ramanasthan (the house where Chalam lived in Tiruvannamalai). Here are some of Chalam's letters to me:
i.
Arunachala
January 4, 1973
Chandrasekhar:
I was happy to read your letter. Although I never had any such experience, I can picture how great it would be when a
saint's love alights on us and mingles with us intimately.
[People] living here with 'Shau" [Chalam's daughter Sowris who was a devotee of Sri Ramana Maharshi. Chalam had
dedicated himself to Iswara (God) who revealed himself to Sowris in 1951 and began working through her.] lack the proper
perspective [in understanding their relationship with her]. They suffer too much from their loving familiarity. I suppose
that Sri Krishna deluded people without letting them know who he really was.
I wish you would make a recording of your days and nights with U.G. Perhaps it is difficult to write from such a
perspective.
With the blessings of Iswara,
Chalam
ii.
Arunachala
January 10, 1973

Chandrasekhar:
Your letter is exciting. Don't hesitate [in what you are doing]. Iswara is getting a great deed done through you. It's enough
if you remain as an instrument.
Shau is conveying this suggestion to you. You should put him [U.G.] in a [talking] mood and put a tape recorder in front of
him. It doesn't matter in what language he speaks. If you first record what he says, then we can think of the rest.
My idea is that you should record every day whatever is happening there, just as in the book Day by Day with Bhagawan
and just as M. recorded the Daily Routine of Paramahamsa [in the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna]. I know it is difficult to do
that.
I tried to do the same in Ramanasthan. But I was unable to. Unless orders come from above, these things are not possible
for ordinary men like you and me. However it may be, a great relief in these matters is that there won't be any regret that
'we couldn't do them' , because these matters are not in our hands.
The title U.G. suggested is very good. What couldn't be done if he wishes it.
I feel that we are on the brink of exciting times. So be it. We too will follow you from here jumping and hopping ....
With Iswara's blessings,
Chalam
***
It was December 1976. 3 O'clock in the afternoon at Secunderabad railway station. Sri Sripada Gopalakrishnamurti came
running just as our train for Bangalore was scheduled to leave in half an hour. He had the draft of U.G.'s biography that I
had written. Handing it to me he said, "It's great. But you must collect more details of U.G.'s life," and gave me a copy of
the book he wrote on Sri Jillellamudi Amma. "Have you ever seen Amma?" I said I hadn't. What I had heard about her
before was through Chalam. "You must meet her. I think U.G. and Amma are the two great teachers of today. I feel that
their teachings are the same. Somehow we must arrange for these two masters to meet."
It was wonderful to see Mr. Sripada's face glow with enthusiasm and joy as he was saying this, regardless of his advanced
age. However, he passed away without his wish being ever fulfilled. I heard that year, when U.G. was staying in the Oasis
School in Hyderabad, Sri Sripada had several discussions with U.G. regarding death and the afterlife.
The picture of Mr. Sripada bringing the manuscript of U.G.'s biography to the train station was firmly imprinted in my

mind.
In writing U.G.'s story, My friend Vazir Rahman helped me to steer away from the traditional style of writing, and polish
the writing somewhat by urging me to render U.G.'s words into simple and clear Telugu. I still remember the days of our
spending hours together in Kodambakam. Our common interests were Chalam and U.G. We also listened to music when we
were bored. That was in 1976 when I was going through an orientation course in the Indian Institute of Technology in
Madras. We two used to meet every weekend.
In March 1980, the article I wrote on U.G. was published in the Sunday Supplement of Andhra Prabha Daily. I sent a
clipping of that article to Vazir. Here is part of what Vazir wrote about that article:
Madras
March 17, 1980
Dear Friend:
I have your kind letter and the press cutting. I read the article carefully twice. You know how I am -- I am never satisfied
easily. I always find something lacking in what I read, if it doesn't come close to my own ideas. Your effort and the
interest you have shown in your article are evident. It looks good to a degree. But if you ask me my final opinion, I would
say that you should polish it some more.
Another thing. Philosophers like U.G. use language in an ingenious way. They wield unimaginable meanings through their
words. If they use language in so many nuances, it means that their language is alive. Notice that neither U.G. nor J.K. use
language artificially. They can express any complex idea in colloquial language and in a conversational style. I feel that
the live quality of their language is the essence of their ideas.
Please review your essay keeping in mind what I said above. You have moved away from a conversational style to an
artificial language loaded with heavy Sanskrit. As a result, instead of being lively, your writing has become heavy and
acquired the style of a philosophical lecture.
I am writing all this just so you won't fall into this sort of pitfall when you write your larger originally contemplated book.
Yours,
V.R.
Vazir Rahman passed away in 1983, before he ever could see how many other big defects slipped into my larger work. He
sent me a copy of his poetic work Sahasi as soon as it was published. In it are included poems -- "Sport," "At the End" --

inspired by U.G. When U.G. heard the paragraph Vazir wrote about him at the end of the book, he said, "He summed it up
very well."
This is all -- nothing remains.
It has to happen. One early dawna red-tailed bird drinking oil. Suddenly it must fly into emptiness. That's all -- at the end,
nothing remains. You flew singing thus Vazir! The Daring One! You left me here alone. Where did you go tonight? To the
other shore? What is there? A big nothing (Lit. Donkey's Egg)!* * *
How many changes this biography has gone through before it is finally ready for publication! How many colors and forms it
has assumed! For some years I fell into lethargy along with my work. I walked with weak feet for some time, and then I
ran as though the world was collapsing. Whatever I was going through, the unknown force called U.G. has been supporting
me like a strong pillar.
2
A bonfire....
It was the night of September 13, 1992, Yercaud. The world didn't know yet that U.G. is staying in an abandoned house in
a remote area, in Yercaud, India. Can anyone imagine a better heaven on earth than Switzerland? What can one say about
the fact that U.G. now fixed his residence in this country in Yercaud near Salem, abandoning in one moment his 28-year-
long association with Switzerland and the garden-like valleys of the Alps in Gstaad-Saanen? It is not because he lacks the
economic means to satisfy his needs in Switzerland. When he consents to stay, there are innumerable friends who can
arrange for royal comforts in a moment's notice. Then why is he coming to Yercaud? What's there for him on this
mountain? He could at least stay in Bangalore. No, apparently there is no place for him there either.
The day before arriving in Yercaud, the visage U.G. manifested in Purnakutee (our residence in Bangalore) reminded one
of Siva at the scene of Daksha's sacrifice. All things which belonged to U.G. in Purnakutee were moved to Yercaud. Things
collected over many years -- files, photos, video and audio tapes -- all of them were moved at U.G.'s insistence. He caused
a bonfire in my heart: I used to cherish these objects every day, considering them to be U.G.'s archives. He trampled
ruthlessly on my devotion. He sold the benches and almirahs in my own presence. He scattered everything without giving
me a moment's time to realize what was going on.
It's all over. Nothing is left for me. All my dreams are shattered. Will Bangalore remain only a past nightmare? Why? Why is

this happening?
It's useless to try to find the meaning behind U.G.'s actions. It is perhaps his intention not to leave for later generations
even a trace of his coming into this world. Nothing must remain. U.G. is very clear that no one will benefit from collecting
memorabilia and keepsakes pertaining to him.
In a Doordarshan interview with U.G., Deepak Vohra asks him: "U.G., I have one final question: How do you imagine the
world should remember you after five hundred years?" U.G.'s reply is unique in world history: "I will feel blessed if the
world burns away with my body all the memories and memorabilia pertaining to me."
U.G., you are your own equal. There has been and will be no one like you in this world. As I was sitting in the living room
of the building in Yercaud, my mind became restless and chaotic. My mind was dreading that something untoward will
surely happen. There was a heavy wind blowing outside the bungalow. It was penetrating through the closed door spaces
and striking my spine. Murty, U.G.'s handyman, was kindling the fires in the fireplace. Murty had let go of his entire
Bangalore life and had dedicated himself to U.G.'s service.
U.G. was sitting leaning against the wall. Whenever the fire glowed in the fireplace, U.G.'s face glowed red with it. Other
friends in the room -- the Major, Prabhakar and Suguna, my wife -- all sat scattered on the floor with arms around their
legs. Everyone looked pale. Mahesh sat on my right side leaning against the wall and looking pitifully at me. The scene
looked like Yama's court ready for a trial. In the middle of it I sat with closed eyes like a sacrificial goat at the altar.
"Why can't Chandrasekhar understand? An ashram-like atmosphere can't grow around me," roared U. G. Mahesh sat up
collecting himself. "Neither my tapes nor books nor letters must be in anyone's control. I am going to return all those
photos to those who have taken them. Nothing must remain after me. I won't let even Chandrasekhar know where I am
and what I am doing. It's all over. After Valentine's death, everything is disintegrating."
A flame flared in the fireplace when some of the kindling caught fire. A loud crackling sound of a piece of firewood. U.G.'s
white clothing. U.G.'s body shone like a flame covered with snow.
Mahesh said after a little while, "U.G. I couldn't have written your biography if Chandrasekhar had not collected all of the
correspondence and kept it in one place. That was necessary."
"Who benefits from those biographies? I said this before. Autobiographies are pure lies. And biographies are double lies.
O.K. you wrote something. But what is he doing? Why should he collect all these? To burn them with me when I die?" U.G.'s
eyes were showering coals on me. The fire in the fireplace seemed cooler. There was a conflagration in myself. There was

an oven in my heart. Mahesh looked like an executioner from Yama. My body trembled when I realized why this soldier
holding a drawn sword and waiting for a wink of the eye from the master had come from Bombay.
U.G. said again, "Why do you write letters to everyone informing them that I am here? Why do you hesitate to say 'I don't
know where U.G. is,' to anyone who asks for me? The other day Julie called me on the phone in Bangalore. I told her,
'There is no place here for even Chandrasekhar and Suguna. What makes you think that I will let you stay?'"
God, what is going to happen? You dragged me here to show me this terrible form? It's all going -- all my hidden fears,
endless deluded hopes, colorful dreams, the beautiful dreams I had made up about my future -- all of them were being
shattered.
They were all burning away. It was not U.G. in front of me. It was an active volcano on fire. Near it were solid rocks
melting like lumps of wax. The tears in my eyes were evaporating before they trickled down.
"Chandrasekhar is the cause of all these miseries," U.G.'s voice sounded like thunder in the sky.
Far away, the bells of the Convent of Carmel rang, as if they were warning me, "These are your last moments, get ready."
The crime I had committed knowingly or unwittingly, the emotions that had been mingled with my blood, the flaw of
considering U.G. as my own, that he was my life outside of me, my subliminal hope of becoming the high priest for the
temple of U.G.'s teaching -- all passed through my mind clearly.
The 'criminal' in me drooped his head. "Whatever has been going on so far cannot continue any more. It must all end here
and now. This moment." The swing of his hand gathered strength and his resounding voice shook the bungalow. The
executioner's sword flashed in the light of the dying fire.
"Here, now, this moment. It has to end now, Chandrasekhar!" Mahesh's howl mingled with my death scream.
Slowly the fire in the fireplace died down. The flames that shone red settled down in the ashes. The sky for once breathed
in relief. The assembly came to a close. All the witnesses exited as though they were innocent. U.G. went into his room
leaving me to my fate. My mind had never known such a terrible onslaught. Although I lay on my bed, I could not sleep. A
series of thoughts whirled around like snakes in my mental snake pit. I got up from my bed and walked outside. 'Blackie',
the dog, saw me and crawled around me wagging her tail. What had happened that night? How come the world was still
sleeping so peacefully? To whom should I tell of my turmoil and my internal struggle? Why was I bothered about all this?
Who is this U.G.? Who am I? What is the connection between us? True, what is he to me? What am I to myself?
I was walking to the edge of an abyss in the dark. I could see, four thousand feet below, the city of Salem flickering with
lights, as though the sky had with all its stars collapsed on the ground .

I asked U.G. on the night of my arrival in Yercaud: "Why doesn't the truth of your words apply in our lives? Our minds can
see reason and consent to the logic [in what you say], but we lag behind in carrying it out in action. Why is that?" U.G.'s
answer blasted my brains: "because you are afraid of losing me if those words work. Because of that fear you try to use
those words securely, as gloves on your hands, to protect yourselves."
Those words of U.G.'s whirled around in my head, "You are afraid of losing me," and I felt as though they were mocking
me.
It's true: U.G. is my life, my everything. Who is it that still lives after losing U.G.? I? Who am I? I have no alternative: I
must solve this puzzle.
U.G. is no one to me. There is this connection, this blunt bond that entangles me, and unless this is broken, I am not free.
U.G. and I -- the memories I have treasured so much, the memories which I thought were special to both of us, my
countless experiences -- if U.G. himself is nothing to me, why should I bother with them? Why should I hoard them? For
whom? Never. I should expel all of them. I should tear myself, break myself open, destroy myself, plunder all my memory
treasures which I had so carefully hoarded, and scatter them to the dust and the wind. I must stand alone, helpless as a
destitute without a past, while all these memories are shamelessly crushed under the feet of every village pig.
The sacrifice has started, the serpent sacrifice of Janamejaya. All the serpents, the thought-serpents that have been
hiding inside my head, in my blood and in every nerve of mine, must all be dropped into this sacrificial fire. There is no
protection for any of them. All of them must be consumed. All my memories must assume the form of letters and be
offered in the sacrifice of this book.
I don't know how long I stood outside that night, by the side of the abyss, in the dark, under that tree. Utter silence
around me. An abyss inside of me and an abyss outside. Utter darkness all around.
"Is this all there is to my life?" The question arose in me all of a sudden. "If you let that question arise, then you have no
scope to live." No sooner I had heard this than all the darkness disappeared. A cloud curtain crossed the abyss touching me
softly.
3
"Why did this U.G. happen to me?"
It was September 20 of 1992. Just a while ago U.G. spoke to me on the telephone. I have been waiting for three days for

his call. Just today they installed a new telephone in U.G.'s cottage in Yercaud.
"When are you coming here?" asks U.G.
"When would you like us to come?"
"You don't need to come. You are not needed," says U.G. in a joking voice. "The owner of this house is offering to build a
special ashram for me. He says he will call it 'U.G. Ashram'. I vetoed it saying 'Never'."
I told him I was going to Hyderabad. "Don't invite my daughter Bharati here." U.G.'s admonition made me smile.
What sort of a person is this? Is he a Jivanmukta? Is he an Atmajnani? I was reminded of what Marissa, an Italian friend of
U.G., said many years ago. Those were the early days of her acquaintance with U.G. After hearing from her about U.G.
and after meeting him, her father apparently said: "Damned be the day you met that man called U.G. Your life will never
be the same again." I have no doubt that these words are literally true, not just in Marissa's case, but with everyone who
has met U.G. "Why did this U.G. happen to me? It seems as though that I have voluntarily invited the devil into my house
at my own expense." There is not a day on which Mr. Brahmachari Siva Rama Sarma, who had undergone tremendous
upheavals after meeting U.G., does not wail: "By inviting him [U.G.] to Bangalore, I bought a total disaster for myself."
"But isn't that a great blessing? Does that happen to everyone?" some inquire thoughtfully.
"On whomsoever I bestow my grace, him I shall rob of all that he has." It's amazing to notice in how many ways and in how
many contexts U.G. demonstrates the truth of this statement of his. Be that as it may, the number of Brahmachari's
friends such as myself, who regard the "disaster" that happened to him as a great blessing, is increasing day by day.
***
4
U.G. arrives in Bangalore
When was it that I met U.G. in Bangalore for the first time? It was long ago, in December of 1969. Even now I am deeply
saddened when I think of my condition before I met U.G.
What sort of life did I live! I wasn't interested in worldly values. My goal in life was to strive for some undefined spiritual
experiences. I was wandering around visiting different gurus and ashrams, listening to their various teachings, and running
around ceaselessly with the belief that there was something to be found somewhere. Those were the days when, at last,

there was a respite in Ramanasthan, (my elderly friend Mr. Chalam's residence) in Arunachala presided over by Sowris
(Chalam's daughter). I tasted a new life in the compassionate company of the sage Chalam. Those were the days when I
dedicated my entire life to the worship of the Lord of Arunachala. Ever since I found my refuge in Chalam in 1964, how
many times did I run to Ramanasthan each year! Shau (Sowris) was my revered deity; she was for me the Lord of
Arunachala in person. As the devout Prahlada said in the myth of Bhagavata, I longed to stay in the remembrance of the
Lord even while drinking, eating, talking, sleeping or engaged in any other activity. Nothing concerned me except my
worship of and meditation on the Lord of Arunachala.
Extraordinary experiences and visions occurred during my meditation. I felt as if my liberation was close at hand, that
there wasn't much more to be striven for, that I had 'crossed the bridge', and almost arrived at the point of self-
realization. What enthusiasm!
I had been working at a job in Bangalore. Some friends and I ran the Sankara's School of Culture and a hostel for college
students. Not caring about the consequences for my family, which depended for their livelihood on the salary that I
earned, I lived in Arunachala that year (1969). A series of letters from my friends and well-wishers trying to persuade me
to return to Bangalore did not move me out of Arunachala.
When I look back after 27 years, that year of 1969 seems unthinkable even now: how I walked crazily into danger without
looking back or ahead, and how many shocks had I experienced!
In just two months of my stay in Ramanasthan, I came to realize the extent of my spirituality. I saw how much were my
spiritual experiences weaker compared to the strength of my sexual urges. My sexual and romantic passions gradually
clouded the presence of the Lord of Arunachala in my heart, where I mistakenly believed I had permanently established
Him. This struck a great blow to my ego, which believed that I had become very holy. In a word, my spirituality was
quickly transformed into a sexcapade.
"The source for both God and sex is the same. As long as you think of God, there is always sex in its shadow," says U.G. I
now understand the value of this saying. But in those days I was very confused. "Why am I so deluding myself? The mind
which freed itself from so many attractions, why is it pining so much for such a trifle? Is this a test? O Lord, please give me
strength. Please get me out of this mire." Just as I was praying thus, I felt that I was sinking deeper into the mire.
That evening, I spoke to 'Father' [Mr.Chalam] who was sitting alone: "Father, I want to talk to you about something."
Chalam looked at me with attention. A poem from Chalam's work Sudha crossed my mind: "My life came to the point of
saying, 'Lady, let me go,'" I quoted without much elaboration. From the little I said that sage of love immediately

understood my condition much more clearly than I had myself.
He looked at me intently for a moment and said in a quivering voice, "But you don't have a lady here...."
"Yes, I do. That is why I have this torment," I said.
There were a few moments of silence. Then Chalam said emphasizing each word: "Present all this precisely to Iswara. He
will take care of it. You don't worry."
Iswara (God) [is believed to] reside in Sowris, also called Shau. My unshakable faith in the idea that Iswara in person was
conducting through Sowris all the affairs [of Ramanasthan] had already been shaken. Regardless of how much I wanted to
keep my faith, there was only betrayal and rebellion in me.
I had doubts about all my beliefs and all the truths which I had adopted as the foundation of my life. But why should such
doubts and aberrations occur in me when I had dedicated myself to spiritual practice, when I had resolved to myself that I
had no other goal in life than self-realization? Was this the result of the impressions of my past lives? Must I suppress
them? Must I go on battling these phantoms? What was the advantage of that?
"Watch Jagadish Bhai. See how carefree he is? He is carefree because he has submitted himself totally to Iswara," said
Chalam. Jagadish renounced everything twenty five years ago when he was still only twenty, and like Bhagavan (Sri
Ramana Maharshi), wore a loin-cloth and had firmly implanted himself in Arunachala. Only the day before he was
complaining, "These kids are shouting saying, 'M.G.R., M.G.R.'I can't meditate in the middle of all this noise. I am even
dreaming of the shouting about M.G.R." I was shocked at the manner in which Jagadish complained about his problems.
Was that all? Must all that renunciation and spiritual practice come to naught in the face of some noise about M.G.R.?
Soon after that I broke away from Ramanasthan and left Arunachala. After almost four months of absence, I returned to
this world, to Bangalore, to my usual mechanical life, and to my job, which I managed to retain with friends' help.
All those who knew me expressed concern over my welfare, but ridiculed me behind my back. They considered me as sort
of crazy and gave me counsel to try and save me. That was a hellish torture. I spent hours alone, sitting on a pile of
boulders behind the Ramakrishna Ashram, pondering over the state of my life. My mind was filled with disgust at the very
thought of spirituality or spiritual practice. Around that time, when I became tired of Vedanta, the teachings of J.
Krishnamurti attracted my attention. His "Commentaries on Living" became my routine reading material.
***

"You put me on a pedestal ...."
One morning I was trying to call U.G. on the phone. I hadn't succeeded even after an hour. I was tired of trying, so I hung
up the receiver and sat down. Just then the telephone rang. "Hello," said U.G. "Hello U.G., I have been trying your number
for half an hour."
"We too have been trying on this end. The important thing I wanted to tell you was that our Major got an electric shock
while he was ironing clothes a while ago. He yelled so loud that we all thought that he might have died. He is still
trembling from the shock. He was ironing my clothes. He squeezed them, dried them and started ironing them. He ignored
my request not to do it. He thinks that he will get some spiritual vibrations if he washes my clothes. When I assure him
that the only shock he will get is an electric shock and that there are no spiritual vibrations or other vibrations, he still
doesn't listen to me." So U.G. goes on. You can't extract spiritual undertones from his words, no matter how much you try.
"There are no moral values in what I say; nor is there any social utility. There is no spiritual or religious content either." No
matter how vehemently he asserts this, it is hard for us to accept it.
How strange! There is no wise man who can listen when U.G. keeps repeating, "I am not a jivanmukta; nor am I an evolved
being." People such as Mr. Vedantam Satyanarayana, a friend of U.G., try to pull him into an argument saying, "You say
you don't know what state you are in. What you say indicates the Advaita state described in Vedanta texts. If you could
just come down to our level and ...." Then U.G. complains pointing out, "Where do you think I live? I live right next to you.
You put me on a pedestal, on a height. What can I do?" They do not pay attention.
I have been observing this sort of exchange for twenty years, ever since I had met U.G. for the first time.
***
David Barry
U. G. inevitably comes to mind whenever I see the Vedanta Book House, a book shop in Chamarajapeta in Bangalore. It
was in this shop that I first heard of U.G. I know well the owner of the book store, Mr. Ashwattha Narayana. One morning
when I went there to see if there were any new books in the store, as if he had been waiting for me, he said "Come in. You
came just at the right moment. The gentleman here says he needs books explaining the philosophy of Sri Ramana
Maharshi." He introduced me to an American gentleman named David Barry who lived in Ojai, California. We learned a lot

about each other in about ten minutes. The interest Barry showed not only in the Vedanta of Ramana Bhagawan, but also
in other Vedanta texts impressed me.
"How long have you been in India?" I asked him.
"The last time, I came from Switzerland with a great man called U.G.Krishnamurti. But I stayed behind in this country," he
replied.
When I heard the name Krishnamurti, I mistook it for J. Krishnamurti. "No, no. Not J.K. This man's name is U.G. I do know
J.K. pretty well. U.G. is a brand new jivanmukta. If you compare the two, U.G. far surpasses J.K.," said Barry. Then he
talked about his acquaintance with J.K. and U.G., and the manner in which U.G. criticized J.K. After listening to all that
he said about U.G., I thought he was some disciple of U.G.
Some days later, when I had met U.G., our conversation turned to Barry. "He is the only man who is my first and last
disciple." I couldn't stop laughing when U.G. spoke this way.
My acquaintance with Barry, which started in the Vedanta Book House, did not stop there. I took Barry to the Sankara
School of Culture which we ran at that time, and introduced him to all my friends there. All the things which Barry
described about U.G. that day interested us very much: U.G.'s Calamity, the strange way in which his senses functioned
independently of each other as a result of the chemical changes that took place in his body, the colors that emerged in
the places of the Yogic chakras, the visitations of personages such as the Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed and Siva, the manner
in which he attained naturally the 'half-woman' state (attributed to Siva), nullifying the difference between the male and
female sexes, (a state which occurred as a result of a hormonal imbalance in his body), -- when Barry was describing all
these in a dramatic fashion, we listened to him with rapt attention.
We couldn't believe all the wonderful things that had happened to U.G. Can such things happen to any one in this day and
age? Even if they did happen, can such a strange person be a true jivanmukta, if he regarded such unique experiences as
natural occurrences and did not give any importance to them? Was the Calamity a real event in U.G.'s life? When did it
happen?
"The Calamity occurred in the year 1967 on July 9, exactly on his 49th birthday. There is a beautiful place called Saanen in
Switzerland. When U.G. sat under a chestnut tree on that day, it happened ," said Barry.
"What happened?" "Enlightenment," said Barry. He talked casually as though he was describing a natural event such as a
sunrise.
How strange! Could enlightenment happen in someone's life as an event like a fruit falling from a tree? Then too, that it

happened on that day, his 49th birthday? Apparently the Kaumara Nadi had already predicted that U.G. would attain self-
realization on his 49th birthday. Barry was an eye witness to all that happened to U.G. after that.
"Barry's staying with us in the days of my Calamity was in some ways of great use to us," I heard U.G. state on a later
occasion.
"I used to have strange visions. 'Vision' not in the sense of seeing something 'out there'. Rather, my whole consciousness,
my existence suddenly assumed the form of the Buddha. I was not there. In my place it was either the Buddha or Siva --
sometimes it was some women's forms -- with disheveled hair and naked breasts -- even my sex organs were changed.
"Just for a moment. The moment I looked at that and asked what it was, the division disappeared.
"What is all this? Why is it happening like this? Who are all these forms? There was no fear, only curiosity. Because Barry
was there, and because he knew Hindu, Greek, and Chinese myths, he was able to interpret and comment on all these
phenomena. He would look for parallels for the things that happened to me in those myths," says U.G.
I can never forget the scene of three years later, one morning, when U.G. was prodding this best disciple of his with a
stick with thorns on it, threatening him. Barry by nature is slow in doing things, and generally lazy. U.G. does not tolerate
any dullness or laziness among the people around him. Indeed, efficiency and promptness are synonyms for U.G. "This
machine does not know laziness," maintains U.G., referring to his body. "If your heart gets lazy and stops beating for a few
minutes, what will happen to you?" he asks.
That day as U.G. was goading Barry for his laziness, Barry's imposing figure was grumbling pitifully, pleading, "Is this how
you show your compassion?" while he gave U.G. a frightened look. The scene made us all laugh along with U.G.
***
Brahmachariji brings the Brahmajnani
After Barry left, all the friends in the hostel talked for a long time about the things they had heard from him about U.G.
That same night, about 9 p.m., suddenly Mr. Brahmachari, a spiritual teacher who later became a friend of U.G.,
appeared outside the hostel. "I don't have much time. I am just arriving from Mysore to tell you of an important event.
Tomorrow morning a Brahmajnani is coming to our 'cave'. Take a leave of absence in your offices, come to the Cave and
meet him," he summoned. Who is this Brahmajnani that was going to sanctify Mr. Brahmachari's Cave? Normally
Brahmachariji did not invite anyone to the Cave.

"He is U.G.Krishnamurti. Everyone calls him U.G." These words of Mr. Brahmachari resounded in my ears. I couldn't believe
myself hearing them. "Who? U.G.? The man who recently arrived from Switzerland?" I asked, containing my amazement
and excitement with great difficulty. Mr. Brahmachari turned pale: "How do you know him? When did you meet him?" "I
have heard about him. But I haven't met him yet. I am going to see him tomorrow morning," I briefly reported to him what
had happened earlier with Barry."
"So, the publicity has started even before he has arrived in Bangalore. I met him in Mysore. When he told me he was
coming to Bangalore, I invited him to the Cave."
"What sort of a man did he appear to be when you saw him?" I asked Mr. Brahmachari.
"I have no doubt that he is a true Brahmajnani. Wisdom dawned on him in a peculiar way. If you look at his eyes, it is
absolutely certain that he is a jivanmukta. No matter how long I observed him, I could not find him blinking. His skin is
soft and smooth like silk. Why try to know the taste of the curry when you are going to eat it? You will see him tomorrow."
So saying, he left hurriedly.
That night I marveled: "What is this? Is this a dream or is it true? Or is this an illusion of Vishnu?" Such was the state of my
mind. "I heard about him this morning. And tonight I have this news. Are these events coincidental? Or is this a grace from
a mysterious force? Or is this merely my good fortune?" I pondered for a long time. "Tonight is a long night. When will it be
dawn?" I laughed at my own craziness and dropped off into sleep...
5
"Where is the glow in my face?"
It was October 19, 1992. The Major's Maruti car was racing from Yercaud toward Mysore. The Major and U.G. were in the
front seats, and I and Suguna were in the back. U.G.'s innocent question, "Why are we going to Mysore?" caused the Major
to laugh. Our friends in Mysore did not know that U.G. was coming there. U.G. had no need to see anyone there. Rather,
just because we had wanted to see how this circuitous route to Bangalore actually went, we had started on it. It was 1:00
p.m. by the time we stopped at Chamarajanagar on the way to Mysore. We sat at a small table in a restaurant called
Sringar. Although it was an inexpensive restaurant, it looked clean.
One of the persons who was sitting at a table next to us was staring rather intently at U.G. The gentleman looked as if he
was struggling with the dilemma of whether or not to talk to U.G. At last he got up, walked to U.G. and asked politely,

"Excuse me Sir, I don't know who you are. But I see a glow in your face. What are you?" Indeed, it is not easy to identify a
Brahmajnani in crumpled clothes, untidy hair, and with the tired face of someone who has traveled for six hours. The
gentleman didn't seem to be satisfied with the answer given to him by U.G. He said, "You are not an ordinary man. I see a
great glow around your face. I am an employee in the L.I.C. (Life Insurance Corporation). I am also the President of the
Brahma Kumari Sangha." He introduced himself thus and requested U.G.'s address which U.G. gave him.
The man's name was Nagaraj. The last look of his while walking away from U.G. told me how deeply he was attracted to
U.G.
***
"U.G. took away my tiredness...."
The car started moving again toward Mysore. On the way, the Major asked U.G. quietly, "Why did that man Nagaraj feel
that way when he saw you? He said he saw some glow."
"How should I know? I even went into the bathroom and looked at myself in the mirror to see if I would find anything.
There was no glow or any such thing. I don't know why he felt that way," said U.G. smiling. We all broke into laughter.
"Changing the subject, you made me eat seven dosais (pancakes with potato stuffing) today. I am used to having a nap
after my lunch. If I happen to doze off while I am driving, that would be the end of all of us. Whatever suits you...,"
warned the Major smiling through his thick mustache.
U.G. became drowsy after a little while. While the Major and I were talking, U.G. took a short nap and then sat up,
awake. U.G. smiled and said, "Lulled by the car's bouncing I fell asleep. I slept on your behalf also."
I observed the Major's face when he replied , "Very good, I am happy," and there was not a trace of tiredness in him. I
thought that he would want to sleep for a few hours after arriving in Mysore. But, instead, he drove us directly back to
Bangalore by 7 p.m. having driven non-stop for 12 hours through heavy traffic.
I had never seen the Major drive so long without stopping and resting en route. I congratulated him saying, "How was that
possible? You established a new record for yourself."
"U.G. took away my tiredness and drowsiness. He said it himself that he slept my share of the sleep too. It's strange. From
that moment my tiredness was gone. Otherwise, it would have been impossible to drive 450 kilometers non-stop," said the
Major.

We thought of the scolding we would get if U.G. got wind of this conversation. So, instead I included a narrative of the
incident in this book.
***
Brahmachariji and U.G.
The next morning Mr. Brahmachari appeared in Poornakutee, our house in Bangalore. "How come you went to Mysore while
I came here from Mysore to see you?" he frowned upon U.G. People call him also Swami Sarma. Usually we all call him
Brahmachariji.
U.G. and Brahmachariji are both unique. You feel that perhaps Krishna and Arjuna were like this in ancient times.
It's commonly believed that the more adoring a devotee becomes the more his thinking powers deteriorate. This doesn't
mean that Swamiji is a great devotee of U.G. Nor is he afraid of him. It is typical of Swamiji to fearlessly express himself.
It is common for U.G., on the other hand, to tease the Swamiji about the logic of what he says. When these two get
together, it is great entertainment for those who gather around them. Nagaraj used to say, "You two are made for each
other."
I asked Swamiji that morning: "Swamiji, where did you see U.G. the first time? How did you bring him to Bangalore? You
must tell me precisely. I must record everything you say permanently in my book. "
Brahmachariji and I have known each other for about twenty five years, ever since he started residing in his Cave. Mr.
Brahmachari's real name is Siva Rama Sarma. He was brought up in a wealthy family from Mysore. In midlife, he became
increasingly detached, and dedicated himself to spiritual life for four decades. He founded the Jnanasram in
Bannerughatta. There are facts about him which would amaze even those who knew him merely as the Bannerughatta
Swamiji. Only people who know him intimately are aware that he graduated as an M.Sc. in Chemical Engineering and
passed the I.A.S. (Indian Administrative Service) examination. As he disliked government jobs, he took a position in the
Indian Institute of Technology (in those days Tata Institute) and worked as an assistant professor for some years. All his
brothers are millionaires, and they have also been adept in political intrigue. They made their millions no matter what
political party was in power, and they always capitalized whenever political power changed hands. U.G. teases
Brahmachariji by saying, "Those same qualities your brothers have are active in your blood too." He also mocks at him at
times saying, "You don't live like them. Instead, you adopted this sort of life and lost both the worldly and otherworldly

goods." It is surprising to notice Brahmachariji, who would usually react violently to anyone saying derogatory things about
him, smilingly accepting U.G.'s heckling, mocking and teasing. "He is finished. After he came to me, he has changed a lot.
He has become like a cobra whose fangs have been removed," says U.G. laughing.
When he talks about U.G., Swamiji becomes animated, and his anger and emotion express themselves eloquently more in
Kannada than in English. It is amusing to see that when U.G. tries to stop him by jokingly saying, "Kannada beda ('No
Kannada')," Swamiji always asserted himself with his broken Tamil, "Sariyapocci, iduda venda ('All right, but we don't want
this')."
***
Brahmachariji invites U.G.
"First, Dr. Ramakrishna Rao wrote a letter to me in 1969," recounted Swamiji, as though he was recalling that letter. "He
not only narrated the unique happenings that had happened to U.G. He also wrote: 'You haven't met a person like him
before in your life. Ordinary terms like Brahmajnani and jivanmukta have to be given new meanings in order to describe
this man.' He also sent me a copy of U.G.'s horoscope." Dr. Ramakrishna Rao was a boyhood friend of Swamiji. He was a
Professor of Philosophy in Mysore University. Swamiji has a great belief in astrology. He believes, on the basis of his own
personal experience, that we can know a person's true character more clearly through an examination of his horoscope
rather than from his friends' opinions and accounts of him. He showed the horoscope sent by Professor Ramakrishna Rao to
a close friend and well-wisher, Mr. Devudu Narasimha Sastry. Few do not know the name of Mr. Narasimha Sastry in the
Kannada region. He is a great scholar. He not only knew well both Kannada and Sanskrit, but was also an astrologer and a
devout man. Mr. Sastry's residence was near the Sankara Math in Bangalore, and was also close to the Cave of Mr.
Brahmachari.
After examining the horoscope of U.G., Mr. Sastry said candidly, "No doubt there is something great about this gentleman.
However, company with this man is not beneficial to you. That is all I want to say. The rest is up to you." Brahmachariji
was confused. He knew it was useless to ask "Why, or how?" Brahmachariji wailed laughing, "In spite of Mr. Sastri
cautioning me so clearly, if I still went to Mysore to see this great man, what could all this be except my fate?"
Professor Ramakrishna Rao used to live in Saraswatipuram. Brahmachariji was visiting him there. There was a water tank
near his house. Suddenly Brahmachariji saw in a small crowd a man in white pajamas and shirt and a full-statured

foreigner of medium height. "From the description Ramakrishna Rao gave in his letter, I identified the former person as
U.G. On the bank of the tank I noticed that U.G.'s chest was more elevated on the left side," he recalled. U.G. took
Brahmachariji to Professor Ramakrishna Rao's house, and they talked for quite a while. If the acquaintance which started
thus had ended with that meeting, then there would be no need for this story.
When U.G. told Brahmachariji that he was thinking of going to Bangalore, the latter invited him to his place. "Ever since I
invited U.G. to my Cave, my life has become like that of the person who invited the passing goddess of pestilence to visit
his house, " sighed Mr. Brahmachari.
***
6
U.G.'s first visit to Brahmachariji's 'Cave'
In December 1969, that morning we all gathered in Brahmachariji's Cave, waiting for U.G.'s arrival. I was anxiously
awaiting my first meeting with U.G.
There was a big peepul tree in the yard of the Math, and there used to be a two-story house near the tree. All those
surroundings have changed now beyond recognition. There is a legend that the head of the Sringeri Pitha, Sri
Chandrasekhara Bharati Swami used to meditate in an ancient cave under that house. When Sri Vidyatirtha Swami
permitted Brahmachariji to live in that Cave, Brahmachariji got a two-story house built on the same rocks and made it
habitable.
Around 10:00 a.m. a car stopped in the vicinity of the Cave. As soon as I saw the figure clad in white alighting from the
car, I had a strange feeling that I was looking at a very familiar person. "That's U.G.," said someone. "Hello," said U.G.
touching both Brahmachariji's hands. I looked at him intently. Although he looked simple in his white dress, there was
some powerful dignity emanating from U.G. His black hair covered his ears. He had a broad forehead indicating a richness
of intellect. His large ears hidden behind his hands, which were trying to arrange his hair, reminded me of a sculpture of
the Buddha.
His fair complexion seemed fairer in the cool sunshine of December. He appeared almost indistinguishable from the
Europeans who were with him. However simple and natural he seemed, there was something strange about him. In his

gestures and movements there was the innocence of a child. Most striking of all were his eyes! Although his lips were
smiling, there was an uncanny depth to his eyes. I felt as though I was looking into an abyss, as though I was slipping into
the depths of an ocean. I stared at him for a while, spell-bound.
As soon as U.G. sat on a stone seat in the Cave, some of the friends in our company were ready to shower him with their
questions. "I am tired from traveling. We will talk more when we meet again in the evening," said U.G., avoiding the
questions, and making some small talk. Valentine, a Swiss lady who had been U.G.'s friend for many years, however, did
not sit still for even a moment. She was walking around the Cave, examining its surroundings as though she were familiar
with them.
***
There is no moksha, no Jivanmukti, and no Atman
Later, I heard U.G.'s voice ringing like a bell as I was climbing the stairs of the Cave. In the library room upstairs about
twenty pairs of eyes were riveted on U.G. sitting in a corner. I found room for myself and sat at the threshold of the room
on a reed mat. Outside was the cool sunshine of the winter afternoon, and the sound of the peepul tree leaves moving
with the wind. "There is no moksha, no jivanmukti, and no Atman. And there is no such thing as self-realization. Those are
all lies. There is only the 'natural state'. I don't like to use your terms such as enlightenment, jivanmukti, nirvana, or
moksha to refer to this state. Those terms suggest some other meanings. They sound weird to me. When I talk about the
'natural state', it is not the state of someone who has attained self-realization or God-realization. It is not something
created through self-effort. This natural state is always living and spontaneous. "This happens to one in a billion,
accidentally. It does not result from your effort. It is acausal. And why this natural state happens to that one and not
anyone else, I don't know."
Q: When did this happen to you?
U.G.: In my forty-ninth year.
Q:Then are you saying that none of the spiritual practices you did for so many years, that none of the means you adopted,
were useful in attaining that natural state?

U.G.: Without a doubt. Not only that. I would say that they were obstacles. I am saying that it is a wonder that the state
occurred in spite of my doing all those things.
First of all, what is all the search and seeking for? It is your search that takes you away from the natural state you always
are in. All your seeking is in the wrong direction. Wouldn't you remain in your natural state forever if your search stopped?
It is foolish to try to purify your consciousness through some practices in order to attain the natural state. That
consciousness is so pure that all the experiences you consider as sacred and holy are a contamination of it. They are an
unbearable filth, intolerable contamination. Once the barriers within your consciousness are broken -- not because of any
act of will or volition on your part -- once the flood gates are open, everything will be washed away, all experiences --
good and bad, sacred and profane, divine or demonic --, all divine visions, all ultimate states will be washed away from
the consciousness. Krishna consciousness, Buddha consciousness, God consciousness, sages, saints and prophets, Jesus,
Mohammed, Mahavira, enlightened men, yogis -- all of them must be washed away in that flood.
It is only then that consciousness becomes clear. There is a song called "The Saints Go Marching In" in Christian devotional
literature. I change it to "The Saints Go Marching Out." Their very existence is filth. When all that is flushed out, when
consciousness remains pure and clean, no contamination, no filth will ever touch it again. After that your past will never
stick to you, or bother you, and that will be the end of you.
While I was listening to U.G.'s words, all the things which Barry told me about, such as the way in which Calamity
happened to him, ran through my head. Suddenly, images of Shau (Sowris), and the manifestation of Iswara in her in
August 1951, flashed through my mind.
There was a commotion in the room -- the group of friends was smothering U.G. with questions. My own mind was filled
with questions. What's going on here? What's the truth of the matter? Whom should I trust? Should I believe Shau who says,
"There is God. Seek Iswara's refuge from moment to moment." Or, should I believe U.G. who was saying, "God
consciousness, Buddha consciousness, extraordinary visions, are all equal to dirt. Until they are all flushed out,
consciousness will not become clear." I continued to listen to U.G. while my mind struggled with these thoughts.
***
The questioner is the question

U.G.: Why do you ask me such useless questions? "Is there a God? What is the meaning of life? Is there rebirth? What will
happen to us when we die?" Why do you torment yourself with such endless questions?
As for myself, I have no questions except questions about day-to-day affairs: "What is the way to the Cave of Mr.
Brahmachari? When is such and such a plane flight?" Except for such questions, no other questions occur to me. Many great
teachers have been answering your questions for centuries. Why are you not satisfied with them? You believe that I am a
Brahmajnani and a jivanmukta and you want to know if what I have seen confirms your beliefs. As a matter of fact, all
these questions are others' questions, not your own. If there is a question which you can call your own, it won't let you
rest for one minute. There is no question apart from the questioner. The two are the same. If the question goes, the
questioner goes with it. Because you don't want to come to an end, you hang on to your question forever. That's why you
cannot stop the question even if you know there is no answer to it.
***
U.G.: Is there such a thing as enlightenment? As far as I am concerned, what is there are only bodily processes. That is the
natural state. Your existence is a physiological state, not a psychological transformation. It [enlightenment] is not a
mental state of being unconscious one day and conscious the next day. If this natural state ever happens, it will explode
every cell, every nerve and every gland. This is a chemical change, a strange alchemy within the body. Unless such an
irreversible change occurs, there is no release for the body from the stranglehold of thought. You cannot imagine how
deeply, into every cell, thought penetrates throughout the body.
***
Q: Why am I not in this natural state you are describing now?
U.G.: Because you are trying to understand what I am saying. Through thought and thinking you cannot understand
anything. But that [thought] is the only instrument. When that [instrument] cannot be used, and there is no other
instrument, what is there to understand? There is nothing to understand. That's what you need to know -- that there is
nothing at all to know. Here [in me] that is clear. Nobody knows how that became clear [to me], viz., that there is nothing
to know. That's why I am unable to explain it to you. If the understanding that there is nothing to understand, nothing to
know, arises in you, then you wouldn't be here with me for one moment. Then you wouldn't go to someone else either.

Your search would stop, forever.
***
I listened to U.G. talk about many things to the same group of people in the same room for the next six evenings..
When U.G.talked about the Calamity that happened to him, and told us about the irreversible chemical changes that
occurred in his body during the following six days, describing the colors that surfaced on his skin in the places where there
are ductless glands [inside the body], Vidwan Seshachala Sarma asked if the marks were still present. U.G. answered:
"Many of them have subsided. Look and see if you can see some of them on my back." As he spoke, U.G. removed his shirt
and showed his back. We could see some traces of colored bulges in blue and green colors. "That's it. There is no spiritual
or metaphysical content in this. This is purely biological and physical."
"If the endlessly continuing thought process is cut off even once, even for a thousandth of a second, then thoughts can
never be linked again. That break will create tremors throughout the body like a terrible earthquake. Like an atomic
explosion it will shake, move and burn every nerve and blood cell in the body. With that the thinker is gone. The senses
start functioning independently of each other. From then on all bodily processes are carried on automatically, like a
machine. Only the 'you' who you think runs the machine is not there."
***
When I heard U.G.'s words, on the one hand I was amazed and astounded, and on the other hand, I had an unknown fear,
an uneasiness, an anxious feeling as if the ground under my feet was slipping away.
Was there nothing? Were all my hopes for a spiritual life in vain? Were all my endeavors a waste of time?
How true is the poem in Chalam's Sudha!
It is unwise to go roundin a circle leading nowherefor some unknown,chasing mirageswhich delude us into thinkingthere is
something which,if we strive for it,will be revealed.It's a futile waste of an invaluable lifetime.
One afternoon, I went to the Cave early before the crowd gathered there. I felt that I must talk to U.G. in person. I could
not remain quiet with all the chaos created by the storm raging inside me. I saw U.G. standing on the upstairs balcony. It
was 4 o'clock in the afternoon. I and Ranganatha Rao made our salutations as we climbed the stairs.
A smile flashed on U.G.'s face. All three of us sat on the balcony overlooking the big and tall peepul tree. There was a

paved square bench around the tree. The peepul leaves were shining, reflecting the cool sunshine of the afternoon. U.G.
was asking casually about the standard of living in Bangalore and the jobs in our factory. After a while, a question
suddenly broke out of me: "U.G., you say there is no such thing as release or moksha. Then what is the meaning of self-
realization?" He answered, "To realize that there is no such thing as Atman, self or the ego is self-realization," and paused.
"All right. Ramana Maharshi also answered this question in the same way," I thought to myself. "If there is nothing, then
who is it that knows this? For whom is the self-realization?" I asked U.G..
"That is why I say that even that self-realization is a myth." U.G. smiled as he said this. I couldn't think of a response. How
could I proceed further if my feet were tied down like this?
U.G. was looking at me intently. Was self-realization all false? Or was this reply an evasion? How true were his words? Why
should I believe them? My mind continued to question. Didn't all those wise men, prophets and avatars announce that we
should know ourselves? All that they ceaselessly emphasized -- that to know ourselves is our sole aim in life, and that to
attain unity was the goal of our life -- was all that false? Were all the assurances given by them merely writing on water?
Were all the teachings which great sages ranging from the ancient Buddha to the more recent Ramakrishna and Ramana
Maharshi taught in a unanimous voice -- were all of them lies?
U.G. responded, "I don't know what they taught. If you ask me, all I can say is that all those people are misleading you.
What they said and taught might be true for them. But you know yourself that those teachings don't operate in your daily
life and in your own experience. They all deceived themselves thinking that they had achieved something, and they
deceived others and are still continuing to do so. This was evident to me even when I was young. Since then I have lost all
my beliefs. To question the beliefs and teachings which you have taken as true is to question those who taught them. You
are not ready to throw out as bogus all those whom you have revered. You are afraid that that will put an end to your very
existence.
There was trembling inside of me when I heard U.G.'s words. What was the use of my living if those whom I trusted as my
teachers and whom I adored -- Shau and Ramana Bhagawan -- were false? How would it [their teaching] benefit anyone?
The birds were flying through the sky in flocks. From the peepul tree came noises of various kinds of birds. My mind was
groaning with untold agony. Suddenly U.G. turned to me. He said, "Why are you so concerned about all these things? You
are young and you must still marry. You must rise in your job. Why bother with all this nonsense?" For a moment I was
stunned. My face blushed like the setting sun at his words.
"I don't have much interest in those [worldly things]. I feel all those pleasures are momentary," I said in a low tone.

U.G. said, "If you think they are momentary, then you must think that the pleasure of self-realization is permanent.
Right?" There was a mischievous smile on his lips. I turned pale at these words.
"It's not permanent?" thought a big demon in myself.
Looking at me compassionately, U.G. said, "You must believe my words. There is nothing permanent. Permanent happiness
and infinite wisdom are illusory notions created by the nostril-closing [indicating meditation] phonies who endlessly
discuss 'This is real and that is unreal', and who have nothing better to do. You trust those people and lose your interest in
things which are real, and then search for non-existent things. If that is not slipping into a lowly state, what is?"
All the ancient sages who had taken residence in my blood boiled in anger at U.G.'s words. All the scriptural testimonies
they had quoted remained as mere prattling in my mind. There remained one last weapon in my endless arsenal: "You say
that there is no God. You say that God is an illusion which man has created out of fear. Then you don't think there is a
power beyond the reach of the mind that orders this universe?"
U.G. answered: "I will say with certainty that there is no superior power outside of man and different from him. If there is
any such power, that power is not different from you. The lowly mosquito that is sucking your blood is the expression of
that divine power. That is why I say it is irrelevant to discuss the question of God. But I am not advocating, like
Ramaswami Naicker [a South Indian leader who advocated political rights of non-Brahmins], the destruction of temples or
burning of scriptures. Nothing is gained by doing such things."
We could hear the sound of Vedic recitation (of Rudra Patha) from someone's house far away. Some ladies were under the
peepul tree, perambulating around the tree with folded hands. I felt like parodying a Gurajada poem:
If men keep saying "Oh God" How will the country prosper?
It was getting dark. U.G. said in a low voice, "These questions are not new. Many have asked them before. In reality, they
are not your questions. Besides these, do you have any question that is your own, that is not anyone else's?"
I started to think. "Who am I?" Is that my own question? Isn't it Bhagawan's question? Yes. How can that question be mine?
Just because I became identified with Shau's song which said `Who am I, Bhagawan, indeed, who am I, Bhagawan?', does
the question then become mine? What is that question, the one question that will not let me rest, that will not let me get
entangled, the question that will haunt me, torment me, that will burn me alive -- what is that question?" I leaned against
the wall and remained staring into nothingness. The street lamp flashed on, dispelling the darkness. I woke up from my
reverie and looked for U.G. by my side. U.G. had gone inside, and I heard him talking with the friends there.
"If there is any help I can give you, it is this: to help you formulate your own question by yourselves. Beyond that, I cannot

help anyone. Beyond that, no one needs any help," U.G. was saying to someone. While I was listening to these words, I felt
as if a thousand lights went on all at once.
***
I report on U.G. to Chalam's family
It was January 1, 1970. I was traveling by bus from Bangalore to Arunachala. The events of the past week were rolling
around in my mind like a series of movie pictures. I felt a sense of longing when I recalled the last day on which I had said
goodbye to U.G.
U.G. was talking to some friends upstairs. "U.G., goodbye," I said, joining my hands together. Saying, "You are leaving?",
U.G. came close to me in one big step.
"I am leaving tomorrow morning for Arunachala," I said. He already knew that I was friends with Chalam.
"Please say hello to Mr. Chalam and his family. When I was living in Gudivada, I knew Mr. Chalam. Mr. Chalam's wife, Mrs.
Ranganayakamma used to write to me a lot of letters, some crazy letters," he said, quickly reaching for my hands, pressing
them and letting them go. Then, again, he put both his hands on my shoulders, and squeezing, slid his hands down to my
elbows and instantly let them go. He said, "O.K., you go now," and without another word moved toward other friends as
though nothing had happened. I was speechless for some moments, as if I had a shock, and stood motionless.
From my shoulders to the tips of my fingers I felt a strange numbness from U.G.'s touch. "What happened? Why am I
feeling like that?" I was thinking to myself as I was going down the stairs to leave. In all the years since this occurrence, I
noticed U.G. doing similar interesting things like this to a few others. "I don't know anything. Whatever you feel is your
own illusion. There is no energy transmission, nothing," says U.G. if you ask him about it.
It was evening by the time I arrived in Arunachala. When I arrived at Ramanasthan, Chalam, Shau and other friends were
out on a walk. I went looking for them. I found them at the Drowpadi temple. I was eager to relate my U.G. story to
'Father' and Shau. Shau made me talk a lot. I showed her the photo of U.G. which Valentine gave me. She said, "We see his
body, but for him his body was burnt long ago." These words impressed everyone. "What is his full name?" Shau asked.
"Uppaluri Gopala Krishnamurti," I said.
"What? Uppaluri? Father, he seems to be the grandson of Mr. Tenali Venkatappayya," she said, as she showed the photo to
Mr. Chalam. In two minutes the question was settled. The unknown person, U.G., was found to be a close relative of Shau;

they are cousins. "We saw him long ago in my childhood. At that time he was of the age of Ravi [Chalam's eldest son]. Ever
since we were children we used to do Yoga and meditation. We used to address each other by our relationship. My mother
tried her best to marry us in those days," said Shau with great mirth.
At that time 'Amma' (Mr. Chalam's wife, Mrs. Ranganayakamma) was in a life-and-death crisis in Arunachala. "Amma,
apparently your Uppaluri Gopala Krishnamurti came to Bangalore. It seems he has become a great guru. Chandrasekhar
brought us the news that he said hello to you," spoke Shau in Amma's ear. There was some change in her facial expression.
She said, "Sadasiva," and closed her eyes.
On January 17, 1970 Amma closed her eyes for good.
***
1. Mr. Gudipati Venkatachalam (`Chalam' was his pen name] was a well-known writer in Telugu. His many essays, novels,
short-stories, plays and poetry reflected his revolt against oppression of women, against the caste system and against
various social injustices; they also expressed his lifelong spritual quest. Later in his life, he moved, along with his
daughter, Sowris, and the rest of his family, from Andhra Pradesh to Tiruvannamalai, the abode of Sri Ramana Maharshi,
where he spent the rest of his life practicing the teachings of the Maharshi.
2. M.G.R. is a movie star in Tamil movies. Children in Ramanasthan spend time constantly talking about his movies.
3. In Sri Ramanasthan they used to celebrate every August 15 as the day of God's incarnation. Shau stopped these
celebrations in 1971. What was the reason? Shau said that U.G. appeared to her and commanded that such celebrations in
Ramanasthan should no longer take place.
PART TWO
7
Dr. Desiraju
The day was October 10, 1992. Suguna arrived in Yercaud with Mr. and Mrs. Satyanarayana and Sashidhar, all friends of

U.G. Suguna said, "Dr. Desiraju died from a heart attack. They announced it in the papers." I was shocked to hear the
news. He was a renowned neurophysiologist with the National Institute of Mental Health. He was from Andhra. Although I
didn't know him well, the reason for my shock was that, seventeen years ago, he was the one who was responsible for
letting U.G.'s view of life be known to the public in U.G.'s own words.
I can never forget that event in my life. It happened on December 23, 1976. That year U.G. had set up his camp on the
street opposite the Mallikarjuna temple in an old building. The rooms upstairs were big. In the long hall-way the red-
cemented floor was polished well and covered with a rug. Dr. Varma, Dr. Desiraju, Dr. Kapoor (the former director) and
six other doctors came from NIMHANS (National Institute of Mental Health and Neuroscience) to talk to U.G.
My friends and I were waiting eagerly for a discussion to take place. U.G. spoke continuously for two and a half hours,
answering the doctors' questions. After hearing U.G.'s description of his Natural State and how his senses functioned in
that state, Dr. Desiraju asked, "I would like to know precisely how all these things happened to you. I will be happy if you
could tell us about them in as much detail as you can remember. Just assume I am a Nachiketa." U.G. smiled in a mild
manner and said, "That's a long story. It's not so easy."
Dr. Desiraju: We would like to hear it.
U.G.: I can't. I'll have to tell you the whole story. It takes a lot of time. My biography goes only so far; then it stops. After
that, I have nothing to report.
Any of my biographers' aim is only to establish that my childhood upbringing, my education, the spiritual practices I
performed, all brought about this Natural State. If I try to tell them that all those things were only obstacles and that
whatever happened to me happened in spite of them, they don't want to listen to me, because then they can't make their
story juicy. They all want to know how this sort of thing happened, and in what way it happened. When I tell them that
this is acausal, they become disappointed. My background is of no value to me. How can this be a model for you? Your
background is different. Each background is unique.
Dr. Desiraju: It is not that I want to make your biography into a model. It's just like looking at the sun and the moon or the
pole star flickering in the distant skies. I am not necessarily requesting this in order to imitate you. That's why I said I am a
Nachiketa. I shall not leave this place until I learn the truth from you.
U.G.: I am not opposed to your request, but I am unable to tell you. I don't know where to start. It looks like I have to tell

you the whole story.
Dr. Desiraju: We are ready to hear it all.
That was how Dr. Desiraju, the veritable Nachiketa, provoked and persuaded U.G. to tell his whole life story. We recorded
all of it on tape. Rodney Arms edited the material and published it as the first chapter in the book the Mystique of
Enlightenment.
***
8
First Visit to Madras
U.G. underwent much physical turmoil after the Calamity that befell him in 1967. Either because of the chemical changes
that occurred in his body, or because of energy outbursts, his whole body used to undergo contortions as though a wet
cloth was being wrung out. At the time, Mr. Desikachar, who was well known as a Yoga teacher in India, happened to be in
Saanen, Switzerland, where U.G. was also. He became acquainted with U.G. and used to visit U.G. and spend time with
him under the pretext of eating South Indian meals prepared by U.G.
Observing U.G.'s bodily condition, he opined that if U.G. practiced Yoga his body would quiet down. He told U.G. that his
father, Sri Krishnamacharya, was in fact more capable of teaching Yoga than himself.
At Mr. Desikachar's insistence, U.G. came to Madras with Valentine at the end of that year. There he started practicing
Yoga under the guidance of Sri Krishnamacharya. Sri Krishnamacharya was even more renowned than Mr. Desikachar as a
Yoga teacher. He was also a scholar and a centenarian. U.G. was surprised to find that the Yoga postures Sri
Krishnamacharya taught proved contrary to the natural energy movements in U.G.'s body. U.G. remarked about this to Sri
Krishnamacharya. The latter quoted verses from the Bhagavad Gita substantiating his methods. With that, U.G. lost the
little faith he had had before in the worth of Yoga practice. Because, by his nature, he wouldn't brush aside anything so
quickly, U.G. wanted to give this Yoga practice a good chance, and continued to practice it for three years. So, he
practiced all the postures prescribed by Sri Krishnamacharya faithfully. He examined minutely all the effects of this yoga
on his body, and thus proved to himself beyond doubt that those practices were all of no avail to him.
At that time, U.G. used to live in the house in Hanumanthanagar in Bangalore. I too stayed in that house for a few days. As

was my practice, I used to get up early in the morning, take a cold water bath and practice some Yoga postures in the
manner taught to me by Sowris. During my practice, U.G. sometimes used to come in and correct me in some places. For
instance, he admonished me not to open my eyes during my headstand.
The truth which U.G. finally realized from his own experience was that Yoga does more harm than good to the body. U.G.
says that the movements which the body goes through spontaneously as it is coming out of the state of 'death' are closer to
the Tai Chi movements than to the postures of Yoga. Also, U.G. says that it's a mistake to perform the 'Corpse Posture'
(Savasana) at the end of the Yoga practice. He insists that it should come at the beginning.
***
Meeting with the Sankaracharya of Sringeri
That year in Madras, U.G. ran into his boyhood friend, Mr. Tummalapalli Ramalingeswara Rao. Mr. Tummalapalli was a
great scholar in the Sanskrit, Telugu and English languages. He was also an adept in Mantras. U.G. at that time was looking
for a more suitable place in India, a place with a more temperate climate than Madras. When he heard of U.G.'s interests,
Mr. Tummalapalli suggested Sringeri as the proper place. "I am well acquainted with the Jagadguru [lit. `World Teacher' --
title of Sri Sankaracharya] of Sringeri Pitha, Sri Abhinava Vidya Tirtha Swami. Things will work out well for you there," he
assured U.G. and Valentine and led them to Sringeri.
U.G. liked the environs of Sringeri very much and also the peaceful climate of the banks of the River Tunga. He wanted to
rent or buy a place and live there. Mr. Ramalingeswara Rao introduced U.G. to the Swami of Sringeri. When he heard of
the Calamity that had happened to U.G., he said "I must talk to you in private," and led U.G. into his private chambers
which were located in a garden called Narasimhavana on the far side of the river Tunga. It is noteworthy that he allowed
Valentine also into that room. The Swami sat on the Teacher's Seat (Guru Pitha), and U.G. and Valentine sat in front of
him. "When I heard of the extraordinary things that happened to you, I am reminded of my guru Sri Chandrasekhara
Bharati," the Jagadguru started talking. "I don't know of these things in my own personal experience. But my teacher used
to describe his experiences just the way they have occurred in your case. We were afraid that perhaps his mind was
deranged. It is very rare that the body survives the shock of such a thoughtless state. According to the scriptures, within
twenty one days after such an event the body dies. If the body could sustain its vital force and not die off, it must surely
be for the sake of saving humanity. There is no doubt about it."

U.G., on the contrary, had no inclination to save the world or uplift humanity. He listened silently as the teacher spoke.
Then he presented to the Jagadguru his proposal for establishing his residence near Sringeri in a solitary place away from
people. In reply, the Jagadguru said, "I will be responsible for getting you any place around here, if you so wish. But your
idea of living alone will never work. Whether you stay in a jungle or in a mountain cave, people won't stop coming to see
you." The teacher's warning made U.G. abandon his resolve to stay away from people.
At that time, Dr. K. B. Ramakrishna Rao used to be the principal of the JCBM College in Sringeri. The Jagadguru invited
him to visit and introduced him to U.G.
The following are the highlights of Professor Ramakrishna Rao's account of his early acquaintance with U.G.:
"In those days I was deeply studying Kundalini Yoga. My chief daily activities then were reading books about that Yoga,
discussing it with people who had some experience of it and practicing it as much as possible. After I met U.G., in the
presence of the Jagadguru, I invited him to my home. I detected some uniqueness and divinity in him. When I saw him
walking with shoes even inside the house, I thought it must a habit he had acquired in the West. I was surprised when he
said that that was not the case, that if he put his bare feet on the ground, he would be bothered by the electromagnetic
energy that would be transmitted from the ground. When I heard later all the things that had happened to U.G., I was
amazed and wonderstruck.
"To satisfy my curiosity U.G. showed me the colors that appeared on his skin at the base of his neck, on his chest and
around his navel. The common opinion is that the energy centers called Nadi Chakras, which Kundalini Yoga talks about,
are merely psychological. I used to wonder how, if that were the case, the ancients were able to ascribe forms,
measurements and colors to them? When I heard the things U.G. had undergone, I felt that, for the first time, I had new
answers to my doubts, answers which I had never heard before. U.G. explained that at precisely the same locations as the
Nadi centers there are some ductless glands, and that when and if the mechanism of thought comes to a stop, all the
energies that are dormant in those glands become active and bring about biological and chemical changes, and that the
result was indeed the Natural State. As I continued to observe U.G.'s actions and movements, I gained the firm conviction
that he was truly a living example of the Natural State which he had been describing. I felt that such new truths from such
a unique vision must become accessible to as many people as possible."
That evening, Dr. Ramakrishna Rao and a group of his friends led U.G. and Valentine to the top of Rishyasringa Hill
adjacent to the Tunga river. They all sat under a tree. They were curious to hear the story of U.G.'s Calamity. U. G. didn't

like to disappoint them; so he narrated, for about an hour, all the things that had happened to him. It turned out to be a
long lecture. It must be in Sringeri that U.G. probably first started lecturing again after he quit his lecturing in the U.S.A.
many years before.
From that day till now, in all of these twenty five years, how many thousands of people, from all corners of the earth,
have come to hear U.G.'s talks! Between then and now U.G.'s manner of speaking has not changed. He never gets up on a
platform. He never accepts invitations from institutions. If anyone comes to him and asks him questions, he answers in the
manner he feels appropriate.
***
Coffee estate guest house in Chikkamagaluru
That year U.G. stayed for a month in the guest house of a coffee estate in a place called Tirthagundi. There is an
interesting story behind his coming to this coffee estate:
In the state of Karnataka, Chikkamagaluru district is famous for its coffee estates. It is five thousand feet high from the
sea level. Many places in that district compete with each other for their natural beauty. That day, U.G., Valentine and
David Barry were staying in a Travellers' Bungalow in a place called Jayapura. Suddenly, U.G. announced, "Valentine, we
are not going to stay here any longer. Let's leave." Valentine was shocked. She knew that it would be useless to ask him,
"Where are we going?" So she packed her luggage and got ready to go. Meanwhile, a stranger came into the Bungalow
saying that he had heard that there was a 'Yogi' there. "How does that Yogi look?" asked U.G. "Just like you," he replied,
saluting U.G.
His name was Subbarao. He was the manager of a coffee estate in Tirthagundi near Jayapura. One night his servant had a
dream in which a Yogi appeared in white pajamas and jubba and taught him many interesting philosophical truths in a
language that he could understand. After relating his dream, he said to his master, "What that Swami taught was
completely opposed to what you say. What you say is all false." As the servant spoke with such conviction, Subbarao did
not question him.
That morning the servant saw U.G. near the Travelers' Bungalow and identified him as the Yogi who had appeared in his
dream. He ran to his master and reported that the Yogi who had appeared in his dream was staying in the Travelers'
Bungalow on the outskirts of the town.

"If you have no objection, you can stay in our coffee estate guest house. You will be quite comfortable there. There is also
a cook," he said. U.G. went in his car to look at the place out and then accepted his invitation. He moved there with
Valentine, David Barry and the luggage. All this happened in a matter of minutes.
Since then, until 1973, U.G. and Valentine used to go to Tirthagundi whenever they came to India.
***
The Natural State is being able to act efficiently....
When U.G. left Bangalore for Bombay in December 1969, I never thought that I would meet him again. After six months, I
unexpectedly got a picture-postcard from him. By that time Brahmachariji had vacated his Cave and no one knew where
he was. U.G., in his note, enquired after everyone's welfare and asked me for Brahmachariji's address. I did not reply to
that letter. I can't explain why I didn't. I didn't quite understand why U.G. wrote to me when he had so many other
friends. "Maybe he wrote to many others as well. Maybe one of them will reply to him." I now feel guilty for not replying.
Before a month had elapsed, I received another letter from U.G. This time he wrote care of Chalam in Ramanasthan. He
must have thought that I had gone there. Sowris forwarded that letter to me. U.G. didn't mention anything special in it,
but hinted that he was thinking of coming to Bangalore that year [1970], also. I received another letter from Mysore from
Valentine. By this time it was December again.
Valentine wrote that she and U.G. would be passing through Bangalore on their way to Madras and asked me to rent a
cottage for them in the Woodlands Hotel. When I saw that letter, I reproached myself for not replying to U.G.'s previous
letters. Just then, a friend of mine called Jagannath was getting his newly-built house ready for a house-warming
function. I felt that a separate house for U.G. and Valentine would be better than a cottage in a hotel and wrote
accordingly to Valentine. I received a telegram within four days asking me to rent that house and send U.G. confirmation
of the rental.
I spoke to my friend, rented the house for the first week of January 1971 and wrote accordingly to U.G. "We are arriving
next Sunday by car," U.G. informed me by telegram a week before he came.
We were at that time involved in arranging a program in Bangalore for the following Friday, to celebrate Sri Ramana's
Birthday under the auspices of our Sankara School of Culture. For that day, we were planning different sorts of meetings,
a big dinner for the invitees, and group devotional singing. As I was immersed in those arrangements, I didn't think of

making arrangements for U.G.'s minimal needs in the new house.
Unexpectedly, on Friday afternoon, U.G. and Valentine got out of a taxi at our hostel. I was so surprised to see them, as I
was expecting them on Sunday. The celebration was still going on in the hall. U.G. and Valentine waited patiently until
the festivities came to an end. I still can't believe even now that along with all the others, U.G. received the "Grace" when
incense was burned to signal the completion of the celebration, by showing his hands to the incense and pressing them
against his eyes.
U.G. even dined with all of us in the hostel that day. I must pay a tribute to U.G.'s patience: he never made himself
conspicuous, he never caused any anxiety or worry to anyone as a result of his presence, and he bore patiently all the
commotion of the celebration until I had time to attend to his needs. It was evening when at last I was able to take U.G.
and Valentine to the house I had arranged for them. We had the house all right, but the rooms were barren, with not a
single piece of furniture in them, not even a reed mat. An empty house welcomed us. I thought regretfully that if I had
had another day at my disposal, I could have catered to all their basic necessities.
"I like this house. If the house owner has no objection, we will rent it for three weeks," U.G. said. Then he turned to me
and said, smiling, "You eat with us tonight." "Is he making fun of me?" I thought. There was nothing in the house. The
kitchen was empty. There wasn't even a spoon. What would they cook and what would we eat? I was completely at a loss.
But right in front of my eyes something spectacular happened that day. U.G. went out accompanied by me and arranged
to buy all the necessary things, including chairs, tables, beds, and mattresses and got them all arranged. As I was
watching, the kitchen looked full, with the necessary pots, pans and utensils. U.G. did not even forget a rag to clean the
floors.
I marveled at U.G.'s actions: "What sort of a jivanmukta is this? He surpasses even a staunch family man in his ability to
furnish a house." The efficiency he had shown in shopping for the household things made the ego I had developed
regarding my own efficiency feel very deflated.
U.G. seemed to have taught me a lesson without saying anything: "The Natural State is not closing your nose, sitting in
some cave and falling asleep. It is being able to act efficiently without a flaw even in the market place." All of my friends
and I ate a full meal of Upma with U. G. in the new house.
***

9
The basis of all relationships is the same: "What will I get?"....
It was January of 1972. The mere thought of that time sends chills through my heart even now. It was the time when India
had scored a victory over Pakistan and was puffed up with the pride of that victory. There were celebrations everywhere.
But there was only chaos in my heart. The torment, the torture U.G. deliberately subjected me to, the battles I waged
within myself, my God -- I felt that I wouldn't want them to happen even to my enemies.
U.G. and Valentine arrived in Bangalore in January. The enthusiasm of anticipating U.G.'s arrival did not last long. As soon
as he came, he started making fun of me. I couldn't endure U.G. making it his business to laugh at my beliefs, convictions
and the persons whom I revered as deities. But what could I do? I knew my weaknesses. Moreover, however much I tried to
brush it aside, the truth in U.G.'s words would sink into my head. I knew clearly that he was only trying to enable me to
throw away my crutches and stand on my own legs without faltering.
Despite these insights, when in his presence, my feelings used to be hurt. The more hurt I felt, the angrier I became. One
night I boiled over. I didn't want to stay with him, or his teasing, for one more minute. "No, I don't want the friendship of
gentlemen like him anymore. I am fed up with what I have already had," I fumed as I headed home. My mind was seething
with emotion and anger. As soon as I got home, I grabbed the framed picture of U.G. and Sowris -- the picture of the two
persons I adored as deities -- and flung it hard on a stone and broke it. With continuing vengeance I took the photo out of
the broken frame and tore it up. Surprisingly, I then saw that among all the torn up pieces U.G.'s face was still intact and
untorn on one of the fragments. I was dumbfounded for a minute. Collecting myself, I threw away all the pieces.
"Finished, I am done with both of these people. I will live my own life. I will never see their faces again," I was talking to
myself in anger.
For two days, I didn't go near the house where U.G. was living. I suppressed my longing for U.G. "No, don't fall into that
fascination again. What do you lack if you don't see U.G.?" I consoled myself. On the evening of the third day, half an hour
after I came home from work, I heard someone knocking at my door. I couldn't believe my eyes when I opened the door.
There was U.G., with a smile on his face, and Valentine, standing in front of me.
"Chandrasekhar, what happened? We haven't had the pleasure of your visit for three days. Who can take care of us if not
you?" U.G. said walking in. I felt like embracing his legs and crying. At that very moment all my anger disappeared. I
became normal. I wondered how I had been able to carry on without seeing U.G. for those three days.

That year, U.G. stayed in Bangalore for five months. He never stayed in Bangalore that long ever again. There was an old
abandoned bungalow in the Vani Vilas Street across from the Lal Bagh Gate. We arranged U.G.'s residence in the second
floor of that building for that year. That floor of the house had been abandoned because three years previously someone
had committed suicide there. After U.G. and company started living there, the house acquired an inhabited look. My
friend, Hanumantha Reddy, was unemployed at that time. So, he used to live with U.G. and Valentine to help them out.
"Psychological fears are of two kinds: the fear of not getting what we want, and the fear of losing what we have," says
U.G. In those days these two fears used to ride over me like two demons, day in and day out. I would be in turmoil at not
being able to find a solution to some personal problem that was tormenting me. I wouldn't listen to anyone's advice. I was
choking in a mire that I had voluntarily thrown myself into, and I didn't have the guts to get myself out of it. I groped
around hoping that I would get a helping hand from some trusted unknown force. Unable to express my suffering to
anyone, I was instead consumed by it.
One night, U.G. and I were sitting on the terrace of the abandoned bungalow in the open air at the dinner table. U.G.
knew my problem. I knew the solution that U.G. would suggest to me. He knew that I was not prepared for the solution he
was suggesting. For many days this peek-a-boo game had been going on.
"The basis of all personal relations is the same: it is 'What will I get from this relationship?' All relationships are based on
exchange. If the exchange does not work out, the relationship will collapse. It [a relationship] is not so easy, and it is not
so easily broken. But your welfare lies in its being broken," said U.G. Meanwhile, the power in the electric lines went out.
A small lamp which Hanumantha Reddy lighted was fighting the darkness as best as it could.
My heart was moaning in silence: "Is this inevitable? Is there no way to avoid this goblet of poison? Can there be no grace
from God?" Suddenly I heard U.G.'s voice, "If there is such a thing as grace anywhere, it will certainly separate you two
[myself and my wife]." There was neither harshness nor softness in that voice. Words came out of him as though from a
robot. That was it. After that, my heart became very lonely. My sorrow cried out silently. Then U.G.'s clouds of
compassion burst down on me. That compassion instantly broke dams, made me breathless, and filled my barren existence
with new life.
***
That year [1972] U.G. had to carry dual burdens of the persons of Brahmachariji and myself. We both clung to U.G. like

mindless leeches: we had been playing with life foolishly, had been hurt terribly and had lost all interest in life. We felt
only U.G. could hold us each by his hand on either side and save us from danger.
Dr. Prabhu
U.G. sometimes runs into a problem with his esophagus. His assessment of it is, "This is a plumbing problem." The problem
sometimes causes anxiety to those around U.G. A famous cancer specialist in Germany once examined U.G. and said that
it might be a cancer of the esophagus. Valentine started worrying. "I am ready to go at any time," was U.G.'s response.
Dr. Prabhu was one of the doctors who took upon themselves the task of preserving U.G.'s health when he came to India
that year. He hailed from Mangalore and he was a great Ayurvedic physician. He was acclaimed as unequaled in diagnosing
a disease on the basis of examining a person's pulse. Whenever U.G. visited Mangalore, he used to stay in Dr. Prabhu's
house as his guest. That year Dr. Prabhu set up camp in Bangalore for a month to attend to U.G. Sometime before that
U.G. stayed in Manipal Medical College Hostel for a week as Dr. Prabhu's guest. Dr. Prabhu was treating U.G. at that time
for his esophagus trouble. He had a special medicated oil prepared for him. He had his eighteen-year old daughter,
Pratibha, massage the whole of U.G.'s body with that oil. The reason, he said, was that U.G.'s skin was more delicate than
a newborn baby's. His nervous system, Dr. Prabhu said, had become so sensitive that it couldn't stand the touch of men.
Dr. Prabhu claimed that the oil could only be applied delicately by a 16 to18 year-old girl. He gave holy water to the girl
and supervised her massage standing by her side. The process went on for hours each day. U.G. would sit almost naked
with a loin cloth and she would apply the oil on the whole of his body and massage it. Dr. Prabhu would sit by his side
chatting and feeling his pulse. Until the day he told us in Bangalore later, we didn't know that he was subjecting U.G. to a
terrible test. "I have the skill of detecting the thousand ways that a pulse can beat," Dr. Prabhu said, "If even for a
moment sexual feelings arise in the body when a young woman touches it all over, it will be registered in the pulse
instantly. But there was no reaction at all in U.G.'s body. It doesn't mean he is a eunuch. Even eunuchs have sexual
feelings. It became extremely clear to me that U.G.'s nervous system is beyond emotions and passions." We listened to this
in amazement.
***
Sastri Sadan in Bangalore -- Viswanath

It was May of that year. The summer was unbearably hot in Bangalore. The rains were late in coming. U.G. and Valentine
couldn't stand so much heat. U.G. said, "If it does not rain and the weather does not cool down in the next couple of days,
we are going to say goodbye to Bangalore," The ultimatum worked. Before he left for Europe at the end of May, U.G.
made me make two promises: one, that for the next six months, until he returned from his trip, I would go to work
regularly without applying for leave; and two, that I would choose a course of study related to my work and apply myself
to it. I had to undergo a lot of hardships during those six months to keep my promises to U.G. When I look back on those
months, it looks like they were the ones during which I started to stand on my own legs.
Six months later, when U.G. returned to Bangalore in December 1972, we reserved Sastri Sadanam opposite the Anjaneya
Temple for his residence. U.G. wanted to rent that house not just on a short-term basis but for two years. He also wanted
me to vacate my current house and move to Sastri Sadanam. He asked me to speak to the owner, Viswanath, regarding the
rental arrangements. Later, when we were all chatting that same evening outside of the house on an open porch,
Viswanath came by. U.G. told him of his plans and asked him to build a bathroom upstairs for his convenience. Viswanath
agreed to everything, but they had a disagreement over money. Viswanath wanted a hundred rupees more toward rent.
U.G. was adamant and refused to pay more. When U.G. shouted at him saying, "We don't want this house; please return
our advance money," Viswanath shouted back louder saying, "Never, I won't give it until you vacate the house!" The next
moment U.G. went into a rage: "We won't vacate the house; nor will we pay the rent! We will see what you will do!" I was
dumbfounded when U.G. thus squared himself off for a fight.
"If you don't vacate, I will take you to court," threatened Viswanath. U.G. pounced on him with a fiery face saying, "No one
here is afraid of your stupid threats, get out!" "We shall see," said Viswanath and he left hurriedly.
The whole fight took place in the presence of all those gentlemen and gentle ladies who came to U.G.'s place to have his
satsang [lit. communion], believing him to be a Brahmajnani.
My friends slipped away one by one. Not only U.G. and Valentine, but also their guests Volcker, Dr. Lynn, Julie [Wellings]
from California and John Allen were also staying there at that time. U.G.'s anger did not subside even after he came back
into the house. "He is threatening to drag me to the court. He thinks I don't know the law. The house is in our control. No
court will get us out of here," said U.G., turning to me. "Chandrasekhar, you are the one who is going to stay in this house.
We will be going away. Don't be frightened by the threats of Viswanath. If you want to stand up and fight bravely, you will
have all my financial, moral and physical support. What do you say?"
Everyone present was looking at me in pity, as though I were an innocent bystander caught up in trouble unawares. When

U.G. asked me thus, I had an unknown courage: "I am ready U.G.," I said.
"Right. Tomorrow morning I will give you a plan about what you should do and how you should conduct the case. Good
night!" U.G. said and retired into his room. All the foreign friends were commenting on what happened in whatever way
they thought fit. Julie looked at me and said, "Chandrasekhar, think carefully. U.G. and his company will all leave. You
will be the only one who will take care of the court affairs. Why do you want to get caught in these tangles?" She advised
me to wash my hands of this affair.
I came to a decision that night. Whatever might happen, even if the sky above collapses on me, I would stand by my words
and listen to U.G. If he wanted me to jump into fire, I would. I was already in hell. What could be worse? When I came to
this decision late in the night, I fell asleep soundly.
The next day was Sunday. At eight o'clock in the morning U.G. called me and asked me to send word to Viswanath to
come. He came immediately. As if nothing had happened the night before, U.G. said 'hello' to Viswanath and said, "We will
pay you the rent you want. I will also pay you now for two years rent, so that you can make those changes and repairs.
O.K.?"
Viswanath was immensely pleased with this offer. "I myself wanted to reduce the rent," he said.
U.G. said, "No, no. Don't. It's only five hundred rupees. In Switzerland we spend that much money in a week." That was it.
In three minutes the transaction was closed. All the friends who had come with worried minds let out sighs of relief when
they learned of the latest developments. When U.G. could settle matters so easily, why did he make so much fuss the
evening before? Why did he enact that drama? Even now I can't fathom that.
***
10
If not moksha, at least a transistor -- Krishna Bhagavatar
Thus began the time of my moving into the house on Anjaneya Temple Street. That winter was cold. A sonorous voice
could be heard passing on the street every morning singing to the accompaniment of cymbals the chant "Hari Narayana,
Hari Narayana." U.G. had noticed him, too, and remarked one day: "I see someone going on the street everyday singing
Bhajans. His shoulders are covered with a shawl. I wonder who he is?" When he came into our house on the Siva Ratri day

in the same attire, then we knew that he was no less than Mr. Bangalore Krishna Bhagavatar, known not only in Bangalore,
but throughout South India. Everyone called him 'Bhagavatar'. He was a guru to many. He wore a white Glasgow Mull dhoti,
a white shirt, a Kashmir shawl on his shoulders, and a rosary around his neck. His body being fair shone through the
clothes. He wore marks of vibhuti (ashes) on his forehead. In the middle of those marks, he wore a round red vermilion
mark. The Bhagavatar was an attractive man. Although he was over seventy five, he looked healthy and strong. He had a
college degree in agriculture and had worked for some years. His wife's and son's deaths when he was twenty five caused
havoc in his life. He renounced everything and took to traveling. There was no holy place he did not visit. There was no
ashram he did not go to. At last, he attained peace in the presence of a guru in Srirangam. When the guru provoked the
artistic talent in him by showing him a way of attaining self-satisfaction through entertaining everyone by singing
Harikathas (Stories of Gods; lit. stories of Vishnu), Bhagavatar's life gained a new purpose. Since then, for the next fifty
years, he had a steady life. He not only studied Indian culture and tradition thoroughly, but also practiced them in his
everyday life. As a last living witness to the Indian Tradition, he went around the city singing devotional songs. The Rama
temples he had built by singing Hari Kathas and collecting contributions remain today as a tribute to his memory. He was a
great scholar, and was fluent not only in the Kannada, Tamil and Telugu languages but also in English. He wrote Harikathas
in all four languages.
One day, when he was on his City Singing rounds, he visited my friend Sanjiva Rao's house. As Sanjiva Rao knew about the
Bhagavatar's spiritual quest, he told him, "In this same street there is a jnani called U. G. Krishnamurti. He just arrived
from Switzerland. Go and visit him."
Bhagavatar received this information rather lightly. He replied, "You can't fool me. I have seen and heard many
Krishnamurtis before."
At the same time my friend's wife, who was standing next to them asked, "Swami, what's the significance of today?"
"Today is Maha Siva Ratri, my lady. I must go to the Siva Temple from here."
She said, "If you really want to visit Siva in person, there is a living Siva in Viswanath's house at the end of this street. Go
and visit him." Bhagavatar was shocked at her words. He was more inclined to believe her than her husband.
He straightaway arrived at the doorway of U.G., and since that day U.G.'s house became Bhagavatar's second home. He
ran to it whenever he thought of U.G. Ever since he found U.G., there was never an end to his jubilation. He used to
address U.G. as 'Appa' (Lit. 'Father'), although U.G. was twenty years younger than him. This reminded me of how Sri
Ramana Maharshi addressed Mr. Ganapati Sastry, who was older than him, as 'Nayana' ('Father'). Bhagavatar also used to

call Valentine 'Mother'. He used to sit by U.G.'s side and relate many stories about devotees (of gods) in a tasteful manner,
acting them out. Whenever Bhagavatar's eyes rolled in tears, U.G.'s eyes too became moist. Bhagavatar used to appreciate
that in U.G., "Appa is really a lover of devotees. He is moved by their devotion." When he quoted a saying in Sanskrit
"bhaktireva gariyasi..." ('with bhakti thou shall excel') and looked meaningfully at U.G., the latter merely smiled and
collected himself. The smile could be read as, "as if you know what bhakti really means." But U.G. never condemned
Bhagavatar's faith or beliefs.
When at times U.G. started his tirade on human culture and civilization, immediately Bhagatar used to get up and run out
saying, "'Father', it's time for me to go. Goodbye." He didn't have the courage to withstand the attacks.
Even after U.G. had left for Switzerland, Bhagavatar used to come and chat with me every day. He was quite keen on
composing a Hari Katha on U.G. in English. But he was terribly disappointed when he couldn't find even a sampling of any
of the elements which would normally be found in the lives of spiritual people (or Devotees).
Meanwhile, it was getting close to U.G.'s birthday. Bhagavatar was enthusiastic about celebrating it along with all of us.
We all agreed. But how could we do it without informing U.G. about it? What would he say if he knew about it? I decided
to write to him, no matter what the consequence might be. Just as we expected, U.G. replied scolding us: "Celebrating
the birthday of anyone is an immature, childish, infantile activity. How can you do such a thing to me?" He concluded the
letter with, "....That is your house. You may spend your time in fasts, feasts and festivals, but leave this individual who
has neither birth nor death severely alone...." That was a lesson to us. When I showed the letter to Bhagavatar, he started
laughing: "That's right, Appa, That's right. True, we are still children. We keep playing." Then he borrowed a photo of U.G.
from me to get an enlargement and frame it.
The U.G.'s Birthday tradition which began thus continued uninterrupted for ten years. We used to set up the picture of
U.G., listen to some tapes of U.G.'s, and make someone speak about U.G. We would send greetings to U.G. and all of us
used to sign it. "My birthday gathers bigger crowds than I do," U.G. joked. Apparently, once, when no one was around,
Bhagavatar held U.G.'s feet saying, "Appa, no one else cares for me. Only you can show me the way to Release [moksha]."
U.G. instantly picked him up trying to prevent him from holding his feet. He said, "You spent so many years with Ramana
Maharshi. Why didn't you ask him?"
"At that time, I didn't have either that interest or yearning. Now, I feel I don't want anything else," he answered.
U.G. said, "That's the only thing I cannot give. It's not something that someone can give and someone else can receive. You
ask for anything else. I will give that." As soon as he said that, the Bhagavatar asked U.G. to get him a small transistor

[from abroad], U.G. reported. U.G. jokes about him saying, "His interest slipped fast from moksha to a transistor." But I
had no doubt about the earnestness of the Bhagavatar [in spiritual matters]. He used to treasure his acquaintance with
U.G. Even when he was 92 and unable to move, he used to come and see U.G. every year. Bhagavatar moved his camp
from this world the same year that we changed our residence to Poornakutee.
***
"If I don't torture you, who will?" -- Kalyani
One evening U.G. was speaking, sitting on a carpet spread on the floor. The room was filled with audience. Except for
U.G.'s voice, there was total silence. A lady pushed the gate open, came inside and sat at the threshold. She must have
been just under sixty. She wore a blue sari, the same colored blouse, wrists full of blue bangles, a thick layer of talc
powder on the face, a blue beauty mark on the face, blue flowers in her hair, a necklace with blue beads on her neck --
she was all blue. She carried an aluminum bowl. When U.G. was speaking she occasionally wrote something down in her
book of scrap paper. She looked rather amusing. I was wondering where I had seen her before. I later remembered that I
had seen her four or five times in the market place panhandling with the bowl for coins. "Why did she come here," I asked
myself. She heard the discussion with U.G. for about an hour. Then she stood up and said in good English, "Sir, do you
think anybody in this assembly understands what you are saying? Only these walls seem to have benefited by your talking."
She then walked out in a hurry. We were all thunderstruck. Who was this? "She is Kalyani. She is crazy," said someone.
After that Kalyani used to come every day. She had total liberty in U.G.'s presence. She laughed and made others laugh.
She sang and danced around. If there was anyone in the audience whom she didn't like, she used to insult them with
words. She used to ask U.G. for money. "Don't beg for money any more. I will give you whatever you want," U.G. would say
to her and give her a lot of money. Even then, she would still beg for coins with her aluminum bowl in front of the
Anjaneya temple. She was always glad to see Valentine. She used to call her, 'Madam.' When she became more
sentimental, she used to hug her, calling her, "Dammu, Dammu [vernacular variation of 'madam']." Although Valentine did
not care for Kalyani's behavior, she liked Kalyani's decoration of herself.
Kalyani was born in a rich Ayyengar family. She graduated from college with a B.Sc. and used to work as a mathematics
teacher in a girls high school. Her husband was a superior I.A.S. [Indian Administrative Service] officer. He was a joint
secretary in the Central Government in Delhi. She was used to giving charities from early in her life. Her family used to

give freely to monks and heads of Maths. She performed many worships and rituals and as a result she lost her mind. Her
family could no longer manage her behavior, so they admitted her in the mental hospital. Since then her manner changed
completely. Even after she was discharged from the mental hospital, she could not go back to her normal life. Unable to
help her, her husband left her to her own devices. Her daughter's husband was also an I.A.S. officer. They both lived in
Hyderabad. The two hundred rupees her husband sent every month, and the fifty rupees that the management of the
school she had worked in paid her, these were her only monthly income. Until she came to U.G. she had no one to care for
her. U.G. arranged a room for her in the premises of Sastri Sadanam. Whenever she asked, U.G. would give her ten
rupees. "U.G. sir made me a rich beggar," she used to say. Noticing her manner and ways, U.G.'s friends, Mahesh, Parveen
Babi and many others became fond of her. Mahesh's wife Kiran liked Kalyani very much.
Kalyani used to keep a tab on how much money people gave her. In some fashion or other, as she saw fit, she used to help
them. Once she asked me for five rupees and got it. Later, on my birthday, I received from the Kanchi Kamakoti Math
Office some sacraments and a receipt in my name for five rupees. I wondered who sent them that money. Another time
she gave me a package and asked me to deliver it to the Swami (monk) residing in the Avani Sankara Math on the outskirts
of Bangalore. I did not have the time to do that. Kalyani used to ask me everyday, "When are you going to go there?" One
evening I went there straight from my office and delivered the package to the Swami telling him that Kalyani asked me to
give it to him. In the package there was a brand new sacred golden necklace worn by a bride on her wedding day and kept
for the rest of her married life. The Swami and I were both surprised. Apparently, just two days before, thieves broke into
the temple and stole valuable jewelry. Just as he was regretting that the image of the goddess didn't even have the sacred
necklace, I brought this package. "That lady is not really crazy, I know her," the Swami affirmed and pressed the necklace
to his eyes. I related the incident to Kalyani upon returning home. "Did you know before that this was going to happen?" I
asked Kalyani. Kalyani poured abuses on me as a response.
To show her gratitude to U.G. for his help, Kalyani performed the services of cleaning the house and decorating it. U.G.
used to say, "I can't afford a rich servant like you, Kalyani." She would never let anyone else do the household chores.
When U.G. got angry at her, she used to hurry everyone with an authoritarian tone. One day after she finished her work
she said to U.G., "Goodbye, Sir, I'll see you again." U.G. said, "Why see me again? Don't."
"I shouldn't come? If I don't come to torture you, who will?"
"Why do you want to torture me? What did I do to you?"
"Because of the sins you committed in your past life. You must suffer the consequences of torturing your wife in this life. "

She said this and left. We all laughed loudly.
I felt that Kalyani must have had some extrasensory powers. U.G. says that they are commonly found in crazy people. But
Kalyani's case is different. She is a veritable deity for Dr. Siromani of Hyderabad. Some friends of U.G. used to make fun of
Dr. Siromani by calling her Devotee Siromani. She used to send clothes and lots of mangoes to Kalyani and to U.G. Once
U.G.'s daughter, Bharati, came to Bangalore. That morning her husband, Mr. Rayudu, was asking about the Skanda Nadi in
Bangalore. He was wondering if the nadi could find any solution to some of the problems that bothered him. Kalyani said,
"Sir. You are the son-in-law of such a great man as U.G., yet how come you are seeking the help of the Nadi man? Show me
your hand, and I will tell you what you need to know." He was surprised at this and showed his hand to her. She looked at
his hand from some distance and said, "You will get a promotion in your job. Your boss who has been pestering you will get
transferred and you will get his job." After a few days, it exactly happened just as she had predicted.
Kalyani used to collect a lot of flowers from somewhere and shower them on U.G. She used to ask, "Sir, when will my ex-
[husband] take me back? When will you send me to my daughter?" When U.G. would reply to her, "Forget all that Kalyani.
None of that will happen," she would look disappointed and leave.
Finally, I did run into her husband once in Bangalore. He told me he didn't have any objection to her coming back. "But she
must quit her roaming around and begging and remain at home," he said.
Kalyani smiled apathetically, on hearing this. "I can't see any difference between the street and my home, what can I do?"
she explained. Her husband returned to Delhi. Her daughter, Sobhana Rangachari, was a great singer. She died in
Hyderabad in a fire accident. I offered to take Kalyani to Hyderabad. She said, "Never." She said with conviction, "My
daughter is still alive. I don't believe all those rumors."
Kalyani had a good singing voice. She was born in a family of great singers. I used to go into ecstasies hearing her singing
the compositions of Tyagaraja, sitting in front of the picture of her favorite deity in her room. When I offered to record
her singing she turned my offer down. When once I started recording secretly without her knowledge, she stopped her
singing, became abusive and cried. But U.G. always used to ask her to sing whenever he gave her money. Sometimes he
would stop his conversation and ask her to narrate incidents of her life in the mental hospital.
Kalyani continued her visits even after we moved to Poornakutee from the Anjaneya Temple Street. Meanwhile, she had
an attack of breast cancer. No matter how much we tried to persuade her to undergo treatment, she refused. Finally, her
chest became like a big open wound. Before she died in 1990, U.G. went to visit her once. She came running to the gate,

crying. I was so sorry to see her in that state. U.G. tried to give her some money. She did not take it. "Please grant me
death, U.G. Sir! That's what I need," she begged, crying. U.G. remained silent. He stood quietly holding her hand. She died
soon after. The day before she died, Suguna and I went to see her. She invited us in. She gestured for us to come in from
her bed where she was lying. She showed us all her belongings in the room and said, "All these and whatever else I have
belong to U.G. sir." Within a year after Kalyani died Valentine passed away. The seven thousand rupees that remained of
the money which the Australian friends of U.G. gave Kalyani for medical treatment became the starter money for the
school founded in Valentine's name.
***
Meeting new friends -- Indian Institute of World Culture
Everyone knows in Bangalore the name of the Indian Institute of World Culture. The late B.P.Wadia and Sophia Wadia
founded the Institute in the Basavanagudi area in 1945. It served as a platform for many great native and foreign
personages and intellectuals. Many intellectuals consider it a great honor to have the opportunity to speak in it. In 1972,
the then Secretary of the Institute, Mr. Venkataramayya, invited U.G. to give a talk there. U.G. was already renowned as
an international lecturer. He lost the urge to speak in public even before the Calamity. "We talk a lot when we don't know
much. If we know a little, there is nothing to say," says U.G. After the Calamity, U.G. found no need for meetings and
platforms. No matter how much U.G. tried to explain to him his situation, Venkataramayya would not take a "No" for an
answer. Finally, either because of Venkataramayya's insistence or because of our persuasion, U.G. gave a talk on the stage
of the Institute in the month of May, 1972. After the Calamity that was his first and last public lecture.
That day the lecture hall was filled with people. Mr. Dilip Kothari, former Chairman of the Film Censor Board and U.G.'s
friend from Bombay, introduced U.G. Notwithstanding the interruptions by Dr. Kothar's comments, the audience listened
to U.G.'s talk spellbound. Many persons like Nagaraj, Radhakishan Bajaj, Rochaldas Shroff and Narayanachari, who were
sold on J.Krishnamurti before, became even more attracted to U.G. as a result of that talk.
***
Kumar, U.G.'s son
In 1957, when U.G. was living in Chicago with his family, Kumar was born . U.G. raised his son for the first two years.

Kusuma, U.G.'s wife, was working in the World Book Encyclopedia. The turbulence in U.G.'s life, which started then,
caused a break-up of U.G.'s family. He sent his wife and children back to India. Kumar stayed with his mother till her
death in 1963. Since then he lived with his relatives, struggled to finish his matriculation in 1973 and ended up in
Bangalore. He used to live with me and my younger brother in the house in Anjaneya Temple Street. 'Bujji' was his pet
name. He was a bright and active kid. He didn't have a clear memory of having known his father. A belief that his father
was responsible for the sad plight of his family was firmly implanted in him. No matter how much I tried to persuade him, I
couldn't succeed in making him quit his hatred and anger toward his father.
U.G. came to India in September that year. That was the first time Kumar met his father after many years. Kumar was
then 17 years old. When his father said hello to him, he did not respond; instead, he turned his head reticently. He would
avoid his father as much as he could. He didn't seem to notice what U.G. said or did. One afternoon, when we were all
sitting on the front porch, Kumar was killing the red ants marching in a row on the floor. "Why, mister? Why are you killing
them?" asked U.G., unable to bear that violence in front of him. "How shall I vent my anger, then?" replied Kumar,
continuing to squash the ants on the floor with his foot. "Take it out on those you are angry with. What did the poor ants
do to you?" as U.G. said this, Kumar looked at once at his father with rage and left the scene.
That same son came to adore U.G. within a month. Even I, who was observing these incidents at close quarters, was
astonished at the transformation in Kumar. U.G. used to give him money and ask him to do small errands for him. He
bought him a bicycle to ride to his college.
One evening, as Kumar was about to leave on his bicycle, U.G. enquired, "Hey, mister, where are you going?"
"I am going to a movie."
"You are going at this late hour? Will you be able to get a ticket?"
As soon as U.G. said this, Kumar brought his bicycle back inside the gate.
"Why, you are not going?" asked U.G., surprised.
"When you mentioned it, I knew I wouldn't be able to get a ticket. Why should I go that far? It's a waste," said Kumar as he
was going into the house.
I was astonished at the faith Kumar had acquired in even casual remarks of U.G.
When Kumar was completing his 18th year in 1974, U.G. said to him, "You are an American citizen by virtue of your birth
in the U.S. You must make up your mind, before you are 18, as to whether you will find a place for yourself in the U.S., or
you are going to waste your talents staying here in India." By that time, Kumar already was in the habit of treating his

father's words as Gospel. U.G. rendered him the minimal help he needed to get to the U.S. "This is all I can do for you.
Whether you will sink or sail will all depend on your own abilities," exhorted U.G. saying goodbye to him.
Kumar arrived in a country where he had no one to support him. He faced many odds there. Yet, in a period of about ten
years he started an independent business and got married. When I met him in a hotel in New York in 1986, now a bona fide
American entrepreneur, my joy and amazement knew no bounds.
***
A Sardarji's palm reading
My marriage with Suguna was settled in 1974. After U.G. and Valentine returned to India, they kept asking me when my
marriage would take place and on what day. Valentine was curious to see my prospective bride. I wrote to Suguna's
brother asking him to bring her to Bangalore. Valentine was very pleased to meet Suguna. "She looks like a baby squirrel,"
remarked Valentine to me. Valentine was very fond of squirrels.
"From now on Chandrasekhar's life will be smooth sailing," said U.G. contentedly. "What day is the wedding? We are
leaving the country on December 25. We want to see Chandrasekhar as a married man before then," said U.G. to Suguna's
brother, persuading him to arrange a date for the wedding before then.
But even in November we didn't get word from Suguna's family as to on what day the wedding was going to be performed,
and U.G. meanwhile kept asking: "The wedding must take place before we leave. Why haven't they contacted you yet?"
One afternoon, we were all sitting in the porch when an old Sardarji walked in and asked if anyone of us wanted our
fortune told. U. G. asked him when Kumar would be going to the U.S. The Sardarji looked at his palm and said, "He is
going to go in six months." Then U.G. pointed me to him and asked him when I would be marrying. I never was interested
in showing my palm to anyone, but I showed it on U.G.'s insistence.
"The marriage will occur in a month," the Sardarji said.
"That's enough. We need not know what will happen later," U.G. said, pulling my hand away from the Sardarji.
That day Volcker, John Allen and Dr. Lynn all had their palms read by the Sardarji. Everyone was astonished at how
accurately he told about everyone's past and future. We all gave him some money. "All this is because of your grace; I
don't have much to do with it," as he said this, the Sardarji bent forward to touch U.G. U.G. moved away from him, and no
matter how many times the Sardarji asked to touch U.G., U.G. did not let him touch even his hand.

We received the wedding invitations a week later. The wedding was to take place on December 20. Valentine was very
eager to witness the wedding. But U.G. prevented her. He told her: "It's hard to arrange for your stay in a remote village.
The couple will come to Bangalore on the third day after the wedding. You can see them then."
When Suguna and I arrived in Bangalore on December 24, Kumar met us at the doorway. "U.G. is at Brahmachariji's
ashram. He told me to tell you to come there tonight even if you are late," Kumar said. We instantly hired a taxi and drove
to the ashram, which was about 20 kilometers away from Bangalore.
"I told you that they would come no matter how late it is in the night," U.G. said to those around him, seeing us
approaching from a distance. The next day was Christmas. Our wedding feast and our bidding farewell to U.G. -- both
happened rather unostentatiously.
***
"Consider me as part of the furniture" -- Nagaraj
Nagaraj was the private secretary to the Postmaster General of Karnataka and also the secretary for the Shorthand
Association. He never married. "The cigarette is my Beloved," he used to say. After hearing of U.G. and meeting him, he
became disillusioned with J.K. [J. Krishnamurti]. After that, whenever U.G. came to Bangalore, Nagaraj would apply for
two or three months' leave from his office and spend that time with U.G. Just as he would usually go to his office carrying
his lunch in a tiffin carrier, he would also bring his lunch to the house in the Anjaneya Temple Street. "U.G., consider me
as part of the furniture here. I have nothing to ask of you. Please let me just hang around here. That's all I want," he used
to say. He wrote down in shorthand in his notebooks the questions U.G.'s visitors would ask and also reported on the
events that occurred around U.G. Those records became our major preoccupation after U.G. left India: Nagaraj would
type up his notes, make copies and distribute them to all our friends. We would read and enjoy them. Mind is a Myth is a
book that came out of those notes prepared by Nagaraj.
Nagaraj retired after we moved to Purnakutee. He asked U.G. to help him quit his habit of cigarette smoking as he was
wasting a lot of money on it. U.G. answered, "Double your quota. Don't stop smoking." Nagaraj didn't heed this advice. In
spite of U.G.'s advice, Nagaraj quit smoking and sank into a heavy depression.
About a year later, one morning, he got up from sleep, drank his coffee, went to bed again and went to sleep forever. It
took me a long time to collect myself after his death. Whenever there was a mention of Nagaraj during conversations,

U.G. used to say to divert us, "Where did Nagaraj go? He is here with us." Maybe he is with us while I am writing this.
Nagaraj, are you listening to your story? Among all the friends that gathered around U.G., Nagaraj was my most intimate.
I can't speak enough about him. The Sundays we spent transcribing his notes on U.G. in his office working for hours
together, the phone conversations we would have with U.G. from that office, the funny jokes Nagaraj would tell -- the
more I think of those memories, the more forlorn I feel.
***
"You are the only one who gives what I need free of charge" -- Rochaldas Schroff
Rochaldas Shroff was a billionaire. His ancestors migrated from the Sindh area of Pakistan. He was a member of the
'Radhasomi Path' started by Sawan Singh Maharaj. For forty years he practiced the 'Surat Sabd Yoga' taught by his teacher.
He was over sixty years when he met U.G. At first, in his broken English, he used to pester U.G. for liberation. "I have
nothing to give. Go and ask your guru," U.G. used to tell him.
"Your teaching that 'There is nothing' is our everything. You please give me that," he used to say cleverly. U.G. would get
angry at him and start scolding him. If U.G. said, "You have so many gurus. Why do you come here instead of going to
them?" Rochaldas would reply: "U.G., all they want is my money. You are the only one who is giving me what I need free of
charge. When you ask me to get out, I feel as if you are saying, 'Get out of these worldly involvements;' and if you tell me
not to come back, I feel as if you are saying, 'Don't come back into the cycle of death and rebirth;' and, if you tell me, 'You
will not get anything here,' I feel as if in this moment, right here I am filled with the Infinite. How can I not come to you
again and again?"
When U.G. would hold his head unable to answer Rochaldas, Nagaraj would then jump with joy saying, "Great, you have
met your equal in Rochaldas, U.G. I will salute you if you can silence him."
One day, Rochaldas was reluctant to leave even after spending a long time with U.G., and stayed downstairs even after
Valentine and U.G. retired upstairs after their lunch. He had a habit of muttering some holy names or prayers within
himself when he wasn't talking to anyone, and he was doing so at this time. In a little while U.G. came downstairs and sat
in a chair in front of Rochaldas. He said seriously, "Look Rochaldas, it's useless to think of jnana and moksha after amassing
millions and billions. You must let all that wealth go. Not just give it to your children. That won't mean anything. There is
a line in a poem which says, 'On whomsoever my grace falls, him I will rob of everything.' You must first let everything go

and become a pauper. Then God will think of bestowing grace on you." Rochaldas was truly terrified by these words.
Ever since then, he stopped pestering U.G. about liberation. But he still would go look for and bring people who would
provoke U.G. with their questions, and thus make him talk. He would go on missions to visit great scientists, doctors and
philosophers, and he would tell them about U.G. and bring them to him. It was owing to his initiative that the NIMHANS
doctors came to U.G. for discussions. He used to call the visitors of U.G. 'bakras'. 'Bakra' means sheep in the Sindhi
language. His implication was that all those visitors were sheep that were victims of U.G.'s eloquence. If a new bakra
arrived who could stand up to U.G. in conversation, Rochaldas would be mightily pleased. He would say, "U.G., when you
talk I hear the divine flute of Krishna. All I want is to keep listening to it." He would even listen to U.G.'s tapes during the
nights.
Rochaldas had three heart attacks before he was seventy five, but he didn't worry about them. He visited U.G. everyday
whenever U.G. came to Bangalore. Although he had three or four cars, Rochaldas would travel in an auto rickshaw to save
money. A day would not go by without U.G. making fun of Rochaldas's miserliness: "Would you have come here if I charged
you one rupee per visit? Tell me the truth, Rochaldas!" Rochaldas would smile and nod in agreement and say, "It's true, I
would not have come."
Once Rochaldas invited U.G. to his house for lunch. Julie Thayer accompanied U.G., and Rochaldas introduced his whole
family to U.G. Did you complete all the arrangements for the distribution of your property [to your successors after you]?
Did you prepare your will yet?" U.G. asked Rochaldas.
Rochaldas replied, "No, not yet." He was not willing to distribute his property even to his own immediate relatives. Finally,
U.G. made Rochaldas agree to soon make those arrangements. The faces of the family members expressed gladness at
this.
In this context, U.G. asked Rochaldas, "If you had a way of saving all your property for your next life, would you have
distributed your property to your children?"
"Not on my dead body," replied Rochaldas with conviction. U.G. laughed.
One day, Rochaldas was not feeling well. Doctors asked him not to get out of bed. Soon after they left, he called U.G. and
told him that he felt like visiting him, and asked him if he could come. "I won't let you, if you come in an auto rickshaw.
You must come in a car," said U.G. He came and sat for a long time that day in Poornakutee. He left for home around two
o'clock in the afternoon. Two hours later we received the news that Rochaldas had died.
"What an easy death!" I thought. I remember his saying goodbye to everyone before he left.

***
"That Krishna and this Krishna say the same thing" -- the Swami of Udipi
In 1972 U.G. went to Udipi along with Valentine. If one goes from the Tirthagundi Coffee Estate to Mangalore, Udipi is on
the way. There are eight Maths [monasteries] there, all belonging to the Madhva tradition. The arrangement whereby a
different head of Math ascends to the Principal Pitha once every two years is called 'paryaya' [turn]. That year it was the
paryaya of the Acharya [teacher] of the Adamara Math. The Adamara Math Senior Swami had heard about how a younger
swami, belonging to one of the eight maths, had relinquished the headship of the Pitha after meeting U.G., and had then
taken to family life and also supported himself by working at a job like everyone else. The Adamara Swami too felt like
seeing U.G. and invited U.G. to accept his hospitality.
"If I come to your Math, would I have to wear clothing appropriate to your ritual rules? I wouldn't be allowed with my
pajama and lalchi. Besides, Valentine also will have to come with me. She is a foreigner," said U.G. trying to discourage
the Swami from inviting him.
The Swami reassured U.G. that he could come dressed just the way he was and bring Valentine as well. "But, please don't
force me to sit with you to eat. That's all I ask," he said, repeating his invitation. He arranged to serve U.G. and Valentine
a tasty meal with twenty five items. He sat in front of them while they ate their lunch, and they talked about many
things. After listening to U.G. for a while, the Swami said to his disciples, "That Krishna and this Krishna say the same
thing."
Then U.G. remarked, "Among the three Acharyas I like Madhvacharya the most."
The Adamara Math Swami was flattered with this remark, believing that U.G. was admiring his tradition. "Why, U.G.,
why?" he asked with excitement.
"It is because of Madhvacharya that Udipi restaurants sprung up all over the world. Whether we go to New York or London
or some other place, thanks to those restaurants, I can find the idlis I need." When U.G. finished saying this, the Swami
looked hurt.
Being bluntly honest and outspoken is unique to U.G. He doesn't wait to consider how the other person will take what he
says. I think that he alienated even people close to him by this quality of his speaking. But as for U.G., he would say, "I
can't lose a friend I don't have."

The following happened about twenty years ago, when we were in the Anjaneya Street House. One day, Professor N.A.
Nikam came with Dr. Ramakrishna Rao. Prof. Nikam had retired from being the vice-chancellor of the Mysore University.
Dr. Ramakrishna Rao did his doctorate under his supervision. Rumor had it that, years ago, the then Maharajah of Mysore,
Jayachamaraja Wadayar, recognized the high level of scholarship that Nikam had in Advaita Vedanta, and got him to write
his speeches. Prof. Nikam handed a copy of the brand new book he wrote called Bhagavan Ramana to U.G. and said, "I
want your candid opinion on this."
U.G. replied without taking the book, "I am sorry. I don't read biographies, much less autobiographies." Nikam's face
turned pale upon this. U.G. must have been the only person who had ever turned down a book offered by him.
***
B. L. Narayan
Before he ever met U.G. for the first time in Bombay in 1972, B.L. Narayan, having been influenced by the teachings of J.
Krishnamurti, had started the Oasis School in Hyderabad. He came to Bombay to hear J.K.'s talks and thus heard of U.G.
He had invested all his personal property in the school and thus became bankrupt. He was keen on making the school into
a model school. He wasn't concerned about its revenues. After he met U.G., his outlook underwent a change. "There is a
great demand for schools today. It's best to set aside all your ideals and run a school merely as a business," U.G. advised
Narayan.
Narayan invited U.G. and Valentine to visit his school in Hyderabad. The Oasis school is situated in a big building on a large
site of four or five acres. Apparently, it is still one of the best residential schools in Andhra Pradesh. After Narayan's death
the school changed hands many times.
From 1972 to 1980 -- for seven years -- U.G. and Valentine used to spend two to three weeks each year at the Oasis
School. It was there that U.G.'s boyhood classmate, Mr. Prasada Rao, came to see U.G. He, Mr. Sripada
Gopalakrishnamurti, Narayan and some other friends, all used to have discussions with U.G. Narayan, upon U.G.'s
suggestion, gave Hanumantha Reddy a teacher's job in his school. Thus, a fairly large group of people gathered there,
including Gopal, Shanta, Satyavati Reddi, Siromani, and Rajasekhar Reddi, whenever U.G. visited Hyderabad.
In April 1980, U. G. came to India unexpectedly and stayed for a month. In May, he went to Hyderabad and stayed with
Narayan for a week in the Oasis School. That was the last time he saw Narayan, for just a few days later he heard the

news that Narayan died of a heart attack.
***
Sitaramayya -- U.G.'s father
In 1977, when U.G. was in Hyderabad, news arrived that U.G.'s father, Mr. Uppaluri Sitaramayya, was on his death bed.
Relatives sent word to U.G. conveying his wish to see U.G. U.G. said, "If he sees me, he will die. If he wants to stay alive,
he shouldn't see me." But he couldn't very well turn down the request of Valentine and Narayan; so he went to see his
father in his step-brother's house. Apparently, his father cried holding U.G.'s hands. "I probably met my father about seven
or eight times in my life. I haven't had any more contact with him than that," says U.G.
***
Shanta of the Oasis School
A young lady called Shanta used to work in the Oasis School office. She was twenty five years old at that time. Narayan
gave her the job of taking care of U.G. and Valentine when they were guests of the school. Shanta felt that she could ask
for nothing better. She used to spend all her time accompanying U.G., or running his errands, and taking Valentine for
walks.
I think it was in the year 1978. When U.G. came to Bangalore that year, he thought it would be nice if Shanta came to
Bangalore for Christmas. He asked Nagaraj to write a letter to her on behalf of all our friends. "U.G. says that he won't
stay in Bangalore if you don't come. You must come at least for our sake. If Mr. Narayan doesn't grant you leave, you
should resign the job, if necessary," Nagaraj wrote in the letter.
Shanta rushed to Bangalore as soon as she got the letter. Since then, her enthusiasm knew no bounds. Her feet wouldn't
stay on the ground, as she felt that U.G. invited her specially to take care of him. She was overwhelmed with the regard
he showed for her. In just a few days, she became so dependent on U.G. that she felt she couldn't live without him. She
made serving U.G. the purpose of her life. At times when U.G. was annoyed with her, she used to cry. Meanwhile, the
time came for her to return to Hyderabad. Just then U.G. fell ill. He was lying in bed one day with a fever. She sat outside
his room, without eating or drinking, with a crestfallen face. She would pester U.G. hour after hour asking him each time,

"Would you like me to mix some gruel? Would you like some fruit juice now?" She would listen repeatedly to Balamurali's
song, "I can't live without you..." on the tape recorder. She would think of U.G. while listening to it and start crying. It was
sad to watch her in that state.
That evening some people came to see U.G. "U.G. is resting; you can't see him yet. Please sit down and wait for a while,"
Shanta told them. Usually, if anyone came to see him, U.G. never liked to tell them to wait, or to make them wait. U.G.
did not tolerate it even if Valentine did something of that sort. After about half an hour, U.G. came out of his room on
some errand, saw those people waiting for him, felt sorry, and asked Shanta, "Why didn't you tell me that someone was
here to see me?"
Shanta answered, "You weren't feeling well. I thought you were asleep. So I didn't wake you up." Then, while U.G. was
talking to his visitors, Shanta went to the post office, phoned Hyderabad, talked to Narayan and told him that U.G. asked
her to stay because he was ill, and requested him to extend her leave by four days.
After his visitors left, U.G. scolded her: "I was lying in my room reading the Time Magazine. Don't you know that if anyone
came to see me, you should tell me at once?" Then he asked her, "What did you tell Narayan on the phone?"
She replied timidly, "I told him I will come after four more days, when you get better."
He asked, "Did you tell him that I asked you to stay? Or, did you tell him that you wanted to stay?" Then she told him the
whole truth: she was afraid that if she told him that she would like to stay, Narayan wouldn't grant her the leave.
Therefore she told him that U.G. wanted her to stay. When he heard this, U.G. got furious. "You can't stay here for one
minute longer. You leave right now. You had the audacity to tell Narayan that I wanted you to stay! Pack up! You must not
stay here even for one minute." Thus he made her get ready to go right then.
Shanta broke down into tears. Her apology was of no use: "It was a mistake, U.G. Please forgive me just this once."
Nagaraj and I also pleaded with U.G. to let Shanta stay at least for that night: "Why should she go alone on the evening
bus? It will be safer for her to go tomorrow in the train," we tried to explain to him.
"Nothing of the sort. Crying and tears don't touch me. She must pay for her mistakes. Let her go," he said and did not even
let us escort her to the bus stand. Shanta left that evening, crying loudly.
Later U.G. said, "The girl developed an attachment for me. That's not healthy. It's not good for her. It has to be nipped in
the bud." Shanta never came to U.G. again. Later, after she married another teacher called Gopal, they both left the
Oasis School.

***
Swami Poornananda Tirtha
It was in March 1986. That being a Sunday I didn't have to go to work. I went up to U.G.'s flat early in the morning. Around
10 o'clock, Swami Poornananda Tirtha showed up at the gate parking his car on the side of the narrow road. We all
addressed him as 'Swamiji' even after he renounced his sannyasa and became a householder.
During the early sixties, when he was delivering lectures on Vedanta in the city, people thronged in thousands to hear him
speak. He was well known for his revolutionary ideas in the spiritual field. He always stressed on the practical aspects of
Vedanta and ridiculed the traditional ritualistic approach in attaining self-realization. He had a huge ashram in the Kerala
State from where he hailed. Every year he would visit Bangalore where his followers would arrange his lecture series. He
encouraged some of our friends like Dr. H. R. Nagendra, Professor Satyanarayana Sastri, Srikantaiah, Anantaram and
others to form a spiritual group called 'Jnana Sadhana Sangha'.
Those were the hey days for Swamiji -- until he got involved with one of his lady disciples running a women's hostel in
Basavanagudi. Eventually when he announced to the wide world his decision to give up Sannyasa, his own admirers
became his sworn enemies.
It was at that time that we were attracted to Brahmachariji living in a cave near the Shamkara Math and leading a
secluded life. Though all my friends deserted Swamiji after his marriage, for my part, I always continued my contact with
him. By then, Swamiji had come under the influence of J. Krishnamurti's teachings. He was meeting J.K. regularly and was
intimate with him. Swamiji told me once that he considered self- realized masters like J.K. and U.G. as his own fathers
and revered them. He said that he had taught J.K., who was all eager to learn any technique to keep his body in a fit
condition, a special kind of breathing technique called 'Antariksha Pranayama'.
That day, when Swamiji visited U.G., the conversation naturally turned around J. Krishanamurti's death which happened a
few days before. "How can such a man die of cancer?" wondered Swamiji. U.G. smiled and said, "Why not? Why do you
think that such people will not die of cancer?" He added: "Do you know that in his interview with David Bohm, J.
Krishnamurti even made statements to the effect that such people [as himself] would live eternally? What sort of a fellow
do you think he is?" Swamiji looked a bit puzzled. "Why can't you brush him aside sir!" U.G. asked him. Swamiji smiled and
said, "He was a nice man. A lovable man." " I agree with you. But that doesn't mean you should swallow whatever he said. I

always said, ' I like Mahesh but not his films.' So, that fellow [J.K.] may be a phony. Why can't you brush him aside?" asked
U.G.. Swamiji was silent.
After some time, he narrated an incident concerning J.K. At that time Swamiji was suffering from acute pain due to the
formation of stones in his kidneys. One day, during his informal chats, Swamiji told J.K. about his problem. "What is the
best treatment for that, Sir?" enquired J.K. Swamiji replied that he was advised to undergo ultrasonic treatment. In that
treatment the stones in the bladder are pulverized, without a need of surgery. Swamiji added, "But, if a person like you
has intense feeling towards me, I am sure of being cured without having to go through any treatment." J.K. looked into his
face and said, "Do you know that Sir? Then you can forget about the treatment." However, after six months, Swamiji had
to submit himself to the same medical treatment in London and free himself from the pain.
"So, it was medical technology that came to your rescue ultimately" quipped U.G. Swamiji nodded his head.
***
I remember vividly the first meeting of Swamiji with U.G. That was in the year 1976 when U.G. and Valentine were staying
in Sannidhi street. Rochaldas accompanied Swamiji. I felt very happy that at last Swamiji could come to meet U.G. As he
heard of U.G.'s anti-J.K. approach Swamiji was reluctant to see him earlier. U.G. sat with all of us on the carpet. Swamiji
looked very relaxed in U.G.'s company. He then fired the first salvo at U.G. "Sir, I want to know the difference between
the two happenings -- enlightenment and Kundalini awakening: which one happens first to a person?" U.G. instantly
replied: "They both occur simultaneously. There is no time gap at all." Swamiji was visibly shaken at the tone of authority
in U.G.'s voice. After that U.G. harangued non-stop, for more than an hour, touching various aspects such as
enlightenment, spiritual sadhana, the Natural State. Luckily we had recorded the talk on that day. Nagaraj later
transcribed the tape and most of its contents found their place in U.G.'s first book The Mystique of Enlightenment.
That day, just before taking leave from U.G., Swamiji hesitantly asked, "U.G., I quite agree that nothing needs to be done
to come into our own Natural State. But, should we not, at least, try to keep the doors and windows open and wait for the
Otherness to enter?" U.G., with all his seriousness, slowly said, "Sir, if that were to happen, it hits like a hurricane
uprooting the whole edifice. It doesn't really matter whether you close or open the windows or doors." Swamiji stood
speechless for a while. U.G. smiled and gently touching his shoulder showed him the door.
From that day Swamiji always came to see U.G. whenever U.G. happened to be in Bangalore. Having observed both U.G.
and Valentine supporting themselves on their own meager resources, Swamiji many times offered to pay for their

expenses. He asked me whether he could bear a part of the burden of their maintenance. When I declined, trying to
explain the fiercely independent nature of U.G., he started pleading: "Shall I at least send my cow's milk for their use?
Shall I offer rides in my car whenever he feels like going out?" Tears swell in my eyes when I recall Swamiji's genuine
concern for U.G. and Valentine. Swamiji would never miss a chance to talk about U.G.'s high spiritual stature in his public
discourses and talks. "If you are really interested in meeting a true jivanmukta, there is one here right now in the city,
camped in Basavanagudi. Go and meet him," he would exhort his audience. Shanta Kelker, the lady who later authored the
exquisite book, The sage and the Housewife, on U.G., was one of those who were inspired by Swamiji's remarks. The last
time U.G. saw Swamiji was when he received the news that he was dying of brain cancer. Swamiji wanted to see U.G. It
was such a pathetic scene. His wife, otherwise a bold lady, was all shattered. She wept bitterly praying U.G. to save her
husband. U.G. stood silently at his bed side. He took Swamiji's hand into his for a while. There were tears in Swamiji's eyes
when he bade good- bye to U.G. with folded hands.
1. The young boy in the Katha Upanishad who wanted to know the secrets of life and death from the God of Death, Yama.
2. Mention of this event is also made in the book Sringeri Revisited which Mr. Tummalapalli published in 1969.
3. The Swami's private chambers were located in a garden called Narasimhavana on the far side of the river Tunga.
4. When he started his practice in Mangalore, he used to collect a fee of four annas per family per month. No matter how
many people fell ill in the same family there was no extra charge. Dr. Prabhu thus earned reputation as a 'four anna
doctor' in Mangalore. Soon his practice prospered and he earned millions of rupees.
5. "Sankara, Ramanuja and Madhva were the three Acharyas [teachers] who founded three separate religious traditions,
one after another. Each of them wrote commentaries on the three Books of Vedanta [Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, and
Brahma Sutras] in support of their own traditions. They condemned one another's tradition. "My hats off to them for
performing such an unparalleled feat," says U.G.
6. All the Brahmins who run the Udipi Restaurants are from the Madhva tradition.
PART THREE
11

Jnanasram and Jnanachakravarti
It was October 1995. Swamiji [Brahmachariji] many times described dramatically the events that occurred around U.G. in
Mysore at that time. Mahesh Bhatt reported in his own book [his biography of U.G. called U.G.Krishnamurti, A Life] the
affairs that happened in Kodaikanal.
It started on September 30, 1979. At 3:00 p.m. U.G. got off the plane with Valentine in the Bangalore airport, having
arrived from Hyderabad. That was the ninth day of the Dasara festival. Ranganatha Rao and I were taking them to
Jnanasram in a taxi.
"When will Viswanath's house be ready?" U.G. asked. I told him it would be two or three days. Because he had no other
place to stay, we had arranged for him to stay temporarily in Jnanasram. U.G. normally doesn't like to inconvenience
anyone. But he does take liberties with Brahmachariji. On the way, he announced his immediate plans: as his friends
Parveen Babi and Mahesh Bhatt were visiting him, he was planning to stay for a month in Kodaikanal in the South of India.
Jnanasram is about twenty kilometers South of Bangalore, close to Bannerughatta. After Brahmachariji avoided with great
difficulty the possible [mis]fortune of ascending the Seat of the Kudli Math, U.G. created for him the opportunity to build
this ashram.With his ingenuity and incessant hard work Brahmachariji transformed the seven-acre barren land donated to
him by the Government into a luscious garden. As well, he also built the Sakti Ganapati Temple in the Ashram. In course of
time, he also built a school, a guest house, and quarters for those who would look after him. Brahmachariji said he owed
it all to U.G.: when U.G. had first seen the barren land, he had put in Brahmachariji's hand the two rupees that remained
after he had paid for a taxi that day, and he told Brahmachariji that this was his donation for the building of an ashram.
Ever since then, whatever Brahmachariji touched turned to gold.
Our taxi arrived in Jnanasram. Looking at the sign of the Ashram outside the gate saying, "Jnanasram," U.G. remarked that
the major defect that the sign had was not to have an 'a' before the word "Jnanasram" [instead of 'Abode Wisdom', the sign
'Ajnanasram' then would read 'Abode of Non-wisdom']. We all laughed at the joke. Brahmachariji, whom we expected to
see waiting for us at the gate, was nowhere to be seen. We surmised that he must have waited for us, and thinking that
the plane arrived late, he must have gone to town to do some urgent chores. So we ourselves had to take care of the
guests that accompanied us.
Early the next morning at five o'clock, U.G. came and sat in the living room. "Last night that cobra came to visit me," he
said. Our curiosity was aroused. Whenever he visited the Ashram, a big cobra used to visit him at least once. It was an

almost twenty-foot long venomous serpent. It would make big sounds with its large hood and wake up U.G. U.G. would
open the back door of his room and go out and walk with the cobra for a little while. "Maybe because of the big rain last
night, the snake was not as fast as before. It crawled and moved slowly. It has become very old. Still, how beautiful it
looks when it crawls in its zig-zag fashion!" U.G. told us.
"In this desolate place, the cobra has been protecting me for all these years. Some great person is visiting in this form, "
said Brahmachari. His cook sometimes fed milk to it. Other people normally couldn't find it, but when U.G. would arrive at
the Ashram, the cobra seemed to know, and would come to U.G. at night, and then disappear.
The next afternoon at exactly 3:00 p.m., Jnanachakravarti, an astrologer, entered, opening the gate with a friend of his
called Anand. Jnanachakravarti was well dressed in the Indian fashion with a red shawl around his shoulders and a glow on
his face. As they approached us, we all promptly made room for the two guests on the green lawn. After being introduced
to U.G., Jnanachakravarti sat with everyone on the lawn. U.G. was mocking the Hindu traditions and religious ways in his
usual manner. In about half an hour Jnanachakravarti abruptly interrupted U.G. and raised an objection: "Mr.
Krishnamurti, many of the criticisms you have made have been made before by others. You must have the spirit of
tolerance to not only reject the useless elements in our tradition, but to select the best. The scriptures don't approve of
someone being a teacher merely because they are engaged [lit. rooted] in Brahman. He must also be tradition-bound. Only
such persons are fit to be world teachers." U.G. did not reply. "Please furnish me the horoscope of U.G. Right now I will
examine it minutely and analyze the status of his spirituality on the basis of scriptural authority. If I am offending his
admirers, please forgive me. But I can't tolerate blasphemy," he said emotionally. U.G. quietly went in, brought a copy of
his horoscope and handed it to Jnanachakravarti. Just as Jnanachakravarti started studying the horoscope, his facial
expressions changed. He admitted that, without a doubt, it was the horoscope of a jivanmukta. He quoted many verses
from astrological texts to support his statements. We were all stunned.
***
No difference between an ashram and a brothel....
The next day, October 3, 1979, Mahesh Bhatt and Parveen Babi arrived from Bombay. That same evening they all went
with U.G. and Valentine to Mysore in a car. My friends and I also went and everyone stayed in the University Guest House
arranged by Professor Ramakrishna Rao of Mysore University. We all ate at Prof. Rao's house. As Brahmachariji hails from

Mysore, he stayed in his own large house built by his father, the ownership of which was a source of dispute between
himself and his brothers.
Something interesting happened on October 4. Prof. Ramakrishna Rao went to the university on some business. U.G.,
Mahesh, Brahmachariji and some other friends of Brahmachariji were sitting in the hall [of the Guest House]. One of them
was Mr. Gundappa, a retired commissioner of police. Brahmachariji and his friends were all ardent followers of Sankara.
U.G. seems to take pleasure in making fun of Brahmachariji when he gets a chance. Sometimes this can go on beyond
tolerable limits and Brahmachariji would go into a rage. Then they would both calm down and laugh very loudly. That day,
however, Brahmachariji was in a terrible mood. As if he didn't notice any of that, U.G. kept on making fun of him: "Why
start an ashram? What's the difference between an ashram and a brothel? Prostitutes are better: they merely sell their
body for a livelihood. In your ashrams you sell gurus. After so much education and becoming an I.A.S. officer, why did you
have to stoop down to selling Sankaracharya?" Brahmachariji became furious that he was made fun of in front of everyone.
"Mahesh, I am not going to remain with this man for one more minute. When Ramakrishna Rao returns, tell him that I went
back to Bangalore," he said angrily, and without heeding Mahesh's requests, rushed out of the house.
"U.G., Brahmachariji is really leaving in anger," Mahesh was shouting loudly.
But U.G., on his part, said quietly, "He is not going anywhere. He will come back. Wait and see."
Meanwhile, just as he left the house and went some distance, Brahmachariji ran into Prof. Ramakrishna Rao. All his anger
returned when he saw the latter, "What kind of a demon are you having as your guest? Is he a Brahmajnani or a big
demon?" he shouted in anger. Ramakrishna Rao held him by his shoulder and tried to comfort and pacify him.
Meanwhile, a Brahmin passing by saw them and begged pitifully, "Sirs, I am hungry. Please give me a rupee. I will read
your palms and tell your fortune."
Ramakrishna Rao found a golden opportunity in this. "Brahmachariji, I agree with what you say. Let's take this palmist with
us and expose U.G.'s true colors. If it turns out that he is a trickster and a phony, we will drive him out of the house.
Come, let's go home," he said. Brahmachariji was pacified. "Hey, you Brahmin, you must look at the palm of someone and
tell us the exact truth. If you read his hand carefully and tell us what kind of a man he is, I will give you ten rupees. If you
talk gibberish, I will make your head sing songs! Be ready!" he said threatening the Brahmin.
In a couple of minutes they came into the house. As Brahmachariji looked at U.G., he curtly asked that U.G. show his hand
to the palmist. U.G. extended his arms to show both his palms like a good boy. None of the people who had assembled in
the hall understood what was going on; they were watching the spectacle. The lean Brahmin looked at U.G.'s right hand

for a couple of minutes and started blinking with wide eyes, howling, "O ho ho!"
Brahmachariji held him by the arm and shouted at him, "Speak clearly in words." The Brahmin didn't hear him, and kept on
studying the palm. After a little while, he said again, "Abbabbabba, ahahaha....!" and was gloating in his own ecstasy.
Brahmachariji could not contain his anger and got ready to hit him, "Are you going to say something in words, or should I
break your head?"
"Sir, what can I say? I have never seen a palm like this before in my entire life. It surpasses that of the Rama Incarnation
and the Krishna Incarnation. This palm is that of Srimannarayana [Vishnu]," the Brahmin said. Brahmachariji couldn't utter
a word in response. He collapsed in the sofa dumbfounded. U.G. assessed the situation. He looked at the palmist and
made an offer: "If you can look at his palm and tell how many children he has, I will give you twenty rupees," and showed
him Brahmachariji's palm. The Brahmin scrutinized it for a minute and laughed, "He is a staunch bachelor. He was never
married. How can he have children?" Brahmachariji then also joined the roomful of people there who laughed at this
accurate deduction. Thus U.G. and Brahmachariji tested each other and found out that the stuff the other person was
made of was genuine and not bogus.
***
Chamundeswari Temple
That evening Dr. Ramakrishna Rao offered to take Mahesh and Parveen for a darshan in the Chamundeswari Temple. U.G.,
Valentine and Brahmachari also accompanied them. No one knows how he got wind of it, but by the time they arrived
there, the priest in the neighboring Lakshmi Narayana Temple, Anandji, came running to U.G. to receive him.
Anandji was a devout man who remained a bachelor all his life, performed daily worship in the Temple, and, like Sri
Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, spent his life meditating upon God. Many years ago, a friend had taken him to U.G. As soon as
Anandji had seated himself in front of U.G., intense movement of the Kundalini energy had started within him. Ever since
then, he placed a picture of U.G. at the altar and worshipped it every day.
The priests of the Chamundeswari Temple, showing great respect, led Valentine, Parveen and Mahesh, along with U.G.,
directly into the inner sanctum. Brahmachariji later said that the honor that was done to them that day was not normally
accorded even to the Maharajah. It was inconceivable that people like Valentine, Parveen and Mahesh, considered
untouchable [Mlecchas] by orthodox Hindus, would be allowed into the inner sanctum where even orthodox Brahmins

would not normally be allowed. A special Puja was performed for them. It was another wonder that the sacred conch
shell, [called Panchajanya] belonging to the Goddess, and the Sri Chakra that was installed there were also brought to
them, and U.G. was allowed to touch them. That honor too is not normally accorded even to the Maharajah. From the
moment he stepped into the inner sanctum, U.G. was feeling the effect of the energy that was there and appeared to be
in a semi-conscious state. The Srichakra and Panchajanya stirred the energies in him.When he was about to stumble,
Brahmachariji held U.G. Mahesh later said that he had seen on U.G.'s forehead a swelling of the skin in the form of the
vertical marks worn by Vaishnavaites(namas). The swelling had remained for a length of time. For the duration of his stay
in the Temple, there was also another mark evident around U.G.'s neck in the form of a serpent.
When asked about the nature of these swellings, U.G.'s explanations were always of a scientific nature. He says that the
worship that was done with great devotion and devoutness, and the Yantras [mystical diagrams on metal plates] that were
installed there -- all fill the area with powerful vibrations. These swellings are an end-result of U.G.'s body mechanisms
reacting to these energy vibrations. They show up for a little while and then subside. U.G. says there is no need to
attribute any more spiritual significance to such manifestations.
Brahmachariji's body mechanism, however, cooled itself down by drinking milk from four coconuts as soon as the group
came out of the Temple. Valentine was the only person who remained unaffected by any of this. Everyone else was
affected in some fashion or other by the energy present there.
***
Dr. Kameswari
Anyone who knew Kameswari would feel as if they had known her for many years. No one knows how she acquired that
special trait. "She is a child of the Devi [the Mother Goddess, called Ammavaru in Telugu]," says General Ramanayya, a
friend of Kameswari. While she was still in her mother's womb, her father, Pillalamarri Sundararamayya, adopted
monkhood and acquired the monk's name of Ramananda Swami. He gave her the mantra of the Sixteen Syllables and
taught her to worship the Goddess Lalita Parameswari. Since then, she filled her life with the Goddess. She later got
married, bore children and became an Army doctor, but she never left the presence of the Supreme Goddess Lalita. Her
world was immersed with the Goddess. Even when she worked in the Army, she would take leave for the ten days of the
Dasara festival and dedicate herself to the Goddess. The Goddess is not just a conventional goddess to her nor is she an

abstract idea in her mind. To Kameswari the Goddess is a unique expression of [energy] which embraces the whole
universe, comforts it with love, and showers mercy upon it.
It was Kameswari's being stationed as an Army doctor in Wellington, a town in the Nilgiri hills, that prompted U.G. to go to
Ooty that year. Ever since she became acquainted with U.G., Kameswari had been inviting him to visit Ooty. For some
reason, the climate of Ooty did not appeal to U.G. Although he liked cool mountainous places, he did not like Ooty.
Nevertheless, because Kameswari lived there, he wanted to go to Kodaikanal via Ooty. Kameswari's joy knew no bounds
when she learned that U.G. was coming with Parveen and Mahesh. "I ran immediately to the Post Office and sent a
telegram saying, 'Welcome.' I also wrote a letter sitting right there. I asked him not to disappoint me, as I was so happy
about his coming. Just before I got U.G.'s letter that day I was thinking during my Puja, 'It would be nice if U.G. would
come here. I can't even take off from work this year on leave.' I had that intense desire to see U.G. I went to the hospital,
and in the morning mail I received the letter from U.G. saying they were coming. I can't express adequately my joy," she
wrote to me in a letter.
On October 5, 1979, two days after Mahesh and Parveen arrived from Bombay, U.G. started with them on a trip by car to
Ooty. Kameswari's anticipation was like that of Sabari in Ramayana. After U.G. and company set foot in her house, she had
one of her two feet in the kitchen and the other in the living room. Unable to bear that, U.G. settled himself down in the
kitchen. He would taste the curries she made, add salt to her cooking and converse with her. Kameswari enjoyed this very
much. He even kept her company when she sat for her Puja, so that she wouldn't miss him even there. He and Parveen
would seat themselves on either side of her. He asked her to utter the mantra aloud when she was meditating. When she
finished, he said, "Good, perfect." One day, when she was doing her Puja, he said, "Parts of the mantras are very
powerful. They feel as if a great energy is flowing. But at some places the flow is interrupted. I will correct them if you
recite them aloud." When she corrected them and recited them again the next day, he said, "Now they sound right."
U.G. once commented on Kameswari's Puja: "When she recited those mantras, those sounds caused strange movements
and experiences in me. It must be such experiences some people aspire for when they do japa [uttering holy names] and
tapas [austerities]. The question, 'No matter how mechanically they are recited, is it right to brush them aside as foolish?'
arose in me. 'No, you mustn't,' came the reply." It doesn't mean that from that moment U.G. encouraged Puja and Japa.
It's not U.G.'s manner to condemn anything as a foolish practice if it is done in good faith, sincerely and with a pure mind.
Kameswari's Puja altar includes U.G.'s photo along with the pictures of all the gods and goddesses. When she was offering
food ritually to the gods, U.G. said in a chiding fashion, "I am here in person. Why do you offer the food to my photo? Give

it to me. I am hungry." "There are other 'dignitaries' there besides you. So you must wait till the Puja is over," she said,
calming him down.
Kameswari, thus, had the good fortune of, after identifying U.G. as the fulfillment of her thousand wishes, having him
come in her own home, of serving him, of worshipping him, of making offerings to him, and of enjoying such worship. On
the full moon day in October, during her Puja, Kameswari was overwhelmed by her devotion and emotions, lost her
senses, fell into U.G.'s lap and started crying loudly. Parveen, too, put her head in U.G.'s lap and cried like a baby.
Perhaps, the full moon filled U.G. with the splendor of motherly love: quietly he consoled them both.
U.G. told me later that it was on that day he had a vision of the Sage Agasthya. He is not wont to talking about such
visions in a respectful manner. His manner is to treat with equal lightness visions of both Donald Duck and Sada Siva. So, it
is not easy to extract the details of such visions from him. When I asked him, "How did Agasthya look?" his answer was, "He
looked short, fat and dark." Everyone knows that Ooty is called the Place of Agasthya. Yercaud also is said to be a
residence of Agasthya.
U.G. and company stayed in Ooty for four days and then left for Kodaikanal. "As soon as they left for Kodai, I felt that my
body became lifeless, as though all the energy in it was pumped out of it like air," Kameswari said.
***
"This is not the time and this is not the place to die" -- Kodai
U.G. wanted to stay in Kodaikanal for a month. Parveen and Mahesh accompanied him there. Also, Mr. Narayana from
Hyderabad and an English friend called Bernard Selby wanted to come there to spend a few days with U.G. Meanwhile, in
Bangalore, we received an unexpected telegram from U.G. saying, "We are cancelling our stay in Kodai and starting back
on the 18th. Please arrange for our stay in the Ashram, if the house is not ready." We were at a loss as to what to do. We
had to hurry to Jnanasram to prepare for their arrival.
U.G. went directly to the Ashram on the evening of his arrival on Thursday, October 18, 1979. The next day Mahesh
brought us to the Ashram in his car. "What happened, Mahesh? Why did you come back from Kodai so soon without
spending at least ten days there?" I asked.
"Ayyo, Kadavalai, Andavane! ['God' in Tamil -- one of U.G.'s pet phrases]," he screamed, but didn't answer my question. I
felt that he hadn't recovered yet from some shock: something extraordinary must have happened. In the course of time I

was able to extract the story, some from Mahesh, some from Valentine and some from U.G. The article that Mahesh wrote
later called, "To Hell and Back," was published in the Times of India. It mirrors the incidents which occurred in Kodai. In
that article, he says, "....Kodai took the ugly shape of a page from Dante's Inferno."
They had found an old bungalow called the Bhut Bungalow in Kodai to stay. Mahesh did not like the place, and was panic-
stricken as if it was a Ghost Bungalow ['bhut' means Ghost in Hindi]. As soon as they got there, it rained torrentially. The
nights were pitch black. Parveen was mentally ill, and her illness became worse from the bad weather. She would sneak
into her room and lock herself in it. U.G. was unwell because the air was so humid and his aesophagus problem recurred
again. U.G. looked like Yama in person. If anyone tried to talk to him about anything, he flew into a rage. There was a
fireplace in the hall with a fire going on, which seemed to serve as a constant reminder of U.G.'s fiery visage. If anyone by
mistake mentioned J.Krishnamurti, U.G. would rise into a fury like a cobra whose tail had been stepped on. "You and I are
going to witness in person the demolition of J.K.'s teachings. I am not exaggerating," U.G. roared fiercely. "J.K. is merely a
medium. He is used to speaking as if some spook possessed him. Otherwise, there is nothing to him," he would say,
brushing J.K. aside.
One day, his aesophagus closed completely. U.G. couldn't even swallow water. If he forced himself to eat anything, he
would throw it up. He was thus unable to eat or drink anything for thirty six hours. To add to that illness, as if in
sympathy, Parveen stopped eating and drinking as well. Thus, there was more than one crisis on hand. U.G. felt as if his
body was all stirred up and wrung out. He used to writhe in pain on the bed. No one knew what would happen. One night,
his pain became unbearable. He felt as if his end was nearing. Mahesh was at a loss as to what to do.
U.G. said to Valentine, "It looks as if my time to die is nearing."
Valentine replied quietly in a jocular fashion: "This is not the time and this is not the place to die. It's not practical."
U.G. could not help himself from laughing at these words. "That was the only laughter that echoed between the walls of
the Bhut Bungalow in a week," said Mahesh. Perhaps because of the irrepressible laughter which burst out of U.G. in
response to Valentine's remark, his aesophagus loosened up. He was able to sip and take in water. A little later, he was
able to eat food. When U.G. said, "That's enough of the Kodai experiment. Let's go to Bangalore," everyone breathed a sigh
of relief. The chauffeur of the car was also gladly relieved. Immediately, everyone said good bye to Kodai and left.
"In the Natural State there are no higher or lower levels. Even before [I went to Kodai] there were no boundaries in my
consciousness. It seemed like consciousness flowed with the body as its periphery. This is not an experience. In order to
communicate with you I have to use a metaphor. After I returned from Kodai, even that 'bank' [boundary] has disappeared.

Everything is a vast unitary stream. There are no obstacles to this flow. It's hard to express it in words. It's even more
difficult to understand what I say," said U.G. the day after he returned from Kodai.
***
"Get lost" -- vision of J.K.
It was November 4, 1979, the full moon day of Kartika. When he saw me early in the morning, U.G. said to me, "You know
what happened today? Earlier this morning J.K. appeared." I was shocked. How could J.K. appear? Was that in a dream or
was it real? U.G. smiled. "This was not a vision; nor was it a dream. I never have dreams. J.K. appeared in person," he
said. What did he say after he appeared? "He looked at me and said, 'Old chap! Your teaching is too radical and too
revolutionary. Water it down.' I told him, 'Get lost!' and he disappeared," said U.G.
***
12
Kusuma -- U.G.'s Wife
"I used to hear that there were great loyal ladies who lived in such unity with their husbands' lives that they didn't even
preserve their own lives. I didn't realize until after she had died that none of them would even stand comparison with my
mother," said Bulbul [Usha, U.G.'s daughter] speaking the other night about her mother, Kusuma.
"You became a great king because our Janaki kept your company, or else was it your own achievement?" so said Tyagayya
defiantly. True. What did Sita gain by marrying an ideal person like Rama? How happy was Kusuma made by loving him
with all her heart an idiosyncratic individual like U.G., let alone being married to him? Kusuma was a faithful wife who
suffered for her husband's pleasure, and with a view of not standing in the way of his attaining his goals. She was caught in
the dilemma of, on the one hand, wishing to provide for her children's future, and, on the other hand, wanting to be in her
husband's presence, a presence which was so vital for her own well-being. Finally, she punished herself cruelly and
separated herself from him. She became an object of scorn in her relatives' eyes, but she wouldn't care about whatever
they said about her. If anyone even hinted at blaming U.G., no matter how close a relative that person was, she would

lash out at him like a veritable Kali. For the sake of her children, she sacrificed her life of 35 years living in the remote
village of Pulla. Apparently she said to her sister Minakshamma before she died, "Sister, thus I not only became unwanted
by my husband but also am becoming useless for my children. What good is it for me to live?"
When Bulbul was narrating to us these events on the terrace that night, we could clearly imagine Kusuma's suffering. We
could understand why she had moved away from U.G. We also knew how inevitable the occurrence of such an event was in
U.G.'s life, this separation from his wife. When Bulbul was crying loudly because she couldn't contain the pain of her
memories, we too cried with her silently.
If a person who first didn't want to marry at all, melted like snow as soon as he saw Kusuma and decided that if he ever
married it would be only to her, we need not be surprised. Her personality, beauty and nature were of that sort. Why did
such a person move away from U.G. in her final days? U.G. had told her that she could leave the U.S. and return to India.
All her efforts to persuade him to return with her to India, to live together as one family with him and the children as
before, failed. U.G. was not interested in the family life. When she thought of the future of her daughters, her heart sank.
She insisted on keeping them in India because she worried: "In this God-forsaken country my children will get used to this
culture and will marry Christian men." She wanted to send them to school in India. She wanted to raise them according to
the Indian cultural tradition, and not to play with their lives. At least that was her intention.
U.G. was adamant: "If you want, you can go. You can stay in India with them. I will live alone in this country or another
country, but I won't return to India." By then he knew that separation with his wife was inevitable. He knew that his life
was like a rudderless boat tossed away by Fate and drifting in the ocean of existence.
Having no alternative, Kusuma returned to India alone. She left her life behind with her husband and landed in India
looking like a lifeless corpse. It's a wonder why the earth didn't take her into its womb immediately. Circumstances in
India were topsy-turvy. Nevertheless, Kusuma was brave and would not admit defeat. She believed that U.G. would
someday return to India for her sake and for their children's sake. She kept her hope alive as long as she believed that
even though U.G. had no use for her, her children needed her. She bore and defied all hardships as well as her ill-health.
One day in Pulla, Bharati [U.G.'s eldest daughter] and Bulbul came from Visakhapatnam for vacations. When she assigned
small tasks for them, they wouldn't do them. She was hurt by their complaints.
No matter how low a state she was in, she was so proud that she wouldn't let others know of it. When she was trying to
feed him, and he wouldn't eat, she learned that the four-year old Bujji [Kumar, U.G.'s second son] had gone to someone's
house and ate a full meal that afternoon. She put the little kid down and made marks on his stomach with a hot pancake

turner. Then she started crying. How many could understand the agony and tears of that mother!
She didn't like to inform her husband of her hardships. "Wouldn't he suffer from pain knowing that I and the children are
going through such hardships? How sorry will he be!" she thought. Her brother-in-law, Mr. Mrutyunjaya Rao, trying to set
right the affairs of this family, and with the intention of calling U.G. to India, wrote a pleading letter to U.G. When she
learned of it, Kusuma became a veritable Durga [a fierce form of the Mother Goddess], picked the gentleman up by
grasping him from the sliding chair he was sitting on and threw him on the floor. She was so proud.
"Sister, he will come. U.G. will certainly come. Didn't he treat me like a princess? My prince will come on the seven
horses." Kusuma used to daydream in this fashion. She had great imagination and an artistic bent of mind. There was not a
moment when she didn't think of U.G. She used to reminisce about the days of her married life with U.G. and talk about
them to her sister.
She recalled that one day she and U.G. went to some town. The hosts had given them a room to sleep in. There was only a
camp cot, which would sleep one person, in the room. Kusuma became angry when U.G. told her, "Kusuma, you sleep on
the cot. I will spread my bed on the floor and sleep on it."
"He used to bring me anything I wanted. He used to send me a sari wherever I was. When he asked me what I wanted for
my birthday, I told him I wanted a sari. I was so foolish. Why did I ask for a sari?" she said, sobbing. Perhaps Kusuma was
regretting that she should instead have asked him to stay with her.
"Sister, my husband used to look like Nagayya [a famous South Indian movie star]. He was fair, with long hair, white shirt
and a panche [loin cloth] -- he looked like a prince. Her tapas was only to constantly think of U.G.'s appearance." Kusuma's
daily routine was to recall the memories of the days she had spent with U.G. in the U.S. and talk about them.
***
13
Valentine de Kerven
It was January 20, 1991. That night Valentine died suddenly. She simply dropped off while she was sitting in a chair eating
her dinner. The houselights were shining brightly. The light of Valentine, however, which had been shining brightly in our
Poornakutee in Bangalore, went out permanently. Just the day before, my wife Suguna had gone to Bapatla after she had

heard of the news of her brother's death. She had been quite distressed at the prospect of leaving the company of
Valentine. She had grown fond of Valentine during the past five years, during which time Valentine became like a small
baby in the cradle. The lives of our children, Aruna and Archana, were intertwined with Valentine's, as they had known
her ever since they were little. They had played games and sang songs to her while she sat in her chair. They teased her
and argued with her. As soon as they came home from school they would hug her and shower her with kisses. How could
the children bear this sudden death while they couldn't even imagine living in her absence?
Unfortunately, I wasn't present when Valentine died that night. Just about an hour and half before her death, I had to go
out on an errand. When I left I told her in English that I would be returning soon. She tried to smile and held her right
hand out as if to shake hands with me. That once-strong hand which had previously given comfort and solace had now
shriveled. I pressed her hand gently and said, "Au revoir, Valentine." She replied, "Au revoir," in a weak voice. That was
her last good-bye, her last handshake. All was over by the time I returned home. Those hands had become cold and
lifeless. My children and her servants were the only ones present when she closed her eyes forever.
It was pitch dark that night. Valentine's dead body was in the front room . And I was there, like a zombie, keeping a watch
over the corpse on the sofa. The city had quietened down. Everything was still except for the occasional roar of a vehicle
rolling down the street. I heard a mild moaning from the next room, which died down after a while.
How could I carry on the next day without Valentine? My brain was getting numb as soon I began to think about it. I felt my
stomach turning. I was suffering from some inexpressible anxiety. What, indeed, was my connection to her? Who was she?
What brought her that great distance, from the place she was born, the Jura mountain region of Switzerland, to
Poornakutee in Bangalore, the place where she died? Who was she? Who were we? Who was U.G.?
It was thirty years ago when an anonymous person who lost all his roots and bearings, and who was roaming in foreign
countries like a vagabond, was blown into the Indian Consulate office in Geneva. Valentine sponsored him with her
generosity and handed over to him all she had without a second thought. It was a new turn in U.G.'s life. Who of us had
ever dreamt that such a person as Valentine would live her last days and die from Alzheimer's disease right in front of our
eyes in Bangalore?
In her years of stay here, our neighbors had also become involved with Valentine. How could I console them? What should I
say to comfort them? I was reminded of the mocking voice of Chalam in a letter he wrote to me many years ago, "Am I still
in that lowly state of pining after those who are dead?" I laughed apathetically within myself. This had to be my plight. My
mind was to be ripped apart over and over again. Valentine lay still over there, as if she was sleeping.

"The body is a fortuitous concourse of atoms. There is no death for the body, only an exchange of atoms. Their changing
places and taking different forms is what we call 'death'. It's a process which restores the energy level in nature that has
gone down. In reality, nothing is born and nothing is dead," I was recalling U.G.'s words with Valentine's dead body in front
of me.
The mind was in no state to contemplate philosophy or science. As ocean waves break upon rocks, all my thoughts were
being shattered within myself -- I was frozen with the weight of my sorrow.
Suddenly the telephone rang, breaking the silence in the hall. U.G.'s voice on the other end. He was calling from
California. There was no emotion in his voice even when he learned of Valentine's death. He reminded me of the
important things I had to do: "Valentine is a foreigner. That's why you should inform the police of her death. They may
give you trouble, if you don't. You must also inform the Swiss Embassy. When will Suguna return?"
I said, "She must be returning by tomorrow afternoon. I will wait till she comes back."
"All right. Cremate the body in the corporation crematorium. Valentine never believed in the rituals performed after
death. She was born a Christian, but she never attended the Church even once," U.G. said. There was a moment of
silence. U.G. again asked, "What will you do with the ashes after the cremation?
"I will immerse them in the Western section of the river Kaveri near Srirangapatnam," came the spontaneous reply out of
myself. U.G. was laughing mildly. There was a pity in that laughter for the sentiments I couldn't free myself from.
***
Some days later, in the morning, Archana was peering from behind me at the papers I was writing on and asked, "Are you
writing the biography of Valentine, daddy?" I nodded 'Yes' and looked into her face. The shadows of memories of Valentine
flashed in her facial expressions.
Who cares about Valentine now? She never even cared about herself. Even when others reminded her of her adventures
and sacrifices, she used to smile as though they were quite ordinary. Valentine had no more interest in her own
extraordinary personality than the interest a flower has in its own fragrance. Even those who knew U.G. intimately knew
her only as a companion to him in his world travels, and as an extraordinarily generous person who made it possible for
U.G. to stay in Switzerland, but who knew of the heights of her magnanimity?
Ever since the time of the Calamity, U.G. and Valentine used to come to India every winter. U.G. used to say, "We are

migratory birds: we come to this country to escape the winter in Switzerland. Here, unlike in that country, we can find all
our conveniences. There is no other higher purpose in coming here."
Valentine always liked to travel to India, and particularly to visit Bangalore. She enjoyed spending her time in Bangalore
standing in the upstairs balcony of the house and watching the huge peepul tree in front of the Anjaneya temple. She
would watch the large bats that hung on its branches upside down and made screeching noises, as well as the ladies who
circumambulated around the statues of snakes installed at the bottom of the tree. Also, there were the lazy buffaloes
which were chewing their cud and swatting themselves with their tails, and the vendors who were selling a variety of
wares from their push carts on the street. Everyday she would go enthusiastically half a dozen times to the nearby Gandhi
Bazaar to buy something there. Until she was past eighty, she used to go around alone in the vicinity of Basavangudi in
Bangalore. Valentine had the habit of walking fast. At times, I myself found it difficult to catch up with her. When one of
us tried to hold her hand to be sure that she would cross the street safely at the cross roads, she used to shake our hand
off and walk away swiftly.
Everyday in the evenings many friends used to gather to talk to U.G. Usually the conversation turned around trivialities. If
there were any serious discussions with U.G., Valentine never moved out of the room. She used to sit there for hours and
listen to the conversations with keen attention. I asked her once, "For how many years you have been listening to U.G.?
Don't you get tired of it?" She would reply, "No matter how many times I've heard him, each time it seems new."
Valentine used to cook for U.G. while they were in Switzerland. Even there she enjoyed walking several times from their
home on top of a hill, about a hundred feet high from the street level, to the market place, going with ease down and
back up the narrow pathways, on the pretext of needing to buy things.
In Bangalore, in the house where we used to live, children used to gather around Valentine. She would be nice to them
and pass out food to them. Children played with her and sang songs to her. She used to clap with them in joy, even though
she did not understand their songs. Aruna and Archana felt great pleasure in spending time with her. They used to bring
their friends and introduce them to her proudly and showed her off to them. It was Valentine's habit to say "Voila" for "all
right". When she rolled her eyes and nodded her head while looking at the children, saying, "Voila", they would join her by
singing, "Voila, voila, voila, voila Valentine." She too would burst out laughing along with them. The children liked to make
her say their names. They would have great fun when she had trouble pronouncing their names.
Valentine had other close friends in Bangalore: the squirrels which jumped off from the coconut tree to the balcony and
came close to her, the stray street dogs that approached her when she walked on the street fast, the baby monkeys saying

hello from the peepul tree across the street from the temple, the lambs nibbling grass in the park -- Valentine was great
friends with all of them. She took photographs of each of them and preserved them carefully. When she made a
photograph, even the ugly face of a baby donkey would look like the face of a royal horse.
Once she took me upstairs, offering to show me something interesting. She took me to her table and silently signed to me
to be quiet. After a little while, she very gently pulled the drawer open and asked me to peep in. There didn't seem to be
anything in there except rubbish. When I looked in more closely, there were four dark mice moving around. Their mother,
sitting in their midst, lifted her head and looked at me fearlessly. In her look I could see the confidence she had that as
long as she had the protection of Valentine no one could harm her family. Valentine closed the drawer quietly and said
looking at me, "Aren't they cute?" I can still remember clearly the glee of joy I saw in her eyes. She was quite preoccupied
with that family of mice, as though feeding them bread crumbs and cookies and protecting them from the cat that came
to say hello to her were her life aims.
Valentine by nature was not very talkative. She could communicate much better with her eyes and facial expressions than
with words. She knew several languages. Her mother tongue was French. She also knew English, German, Spanish and
Italian well. After coming to India she learned a few Hindi words. When I sang poems that I wrote about U.G. in Telugu, I
could see her feeling sorry that she wasn't able to grasp the poems directly in Telugu, rather than in my English
translation. I felt that I didn't need any more recognition for my poems than that. Later, she bought the book called
Telugu in Thirty Days and tried seriously to learn the language. But she got confused with the Kannada vocabulary that was
used around her, and soon quit her effort. Soon after that, Valentine reached a state beyond our words and language, a
thought-free state where there was no need for words.
When Valentine was eighty-two years old, that summer she fell ill for a week in Bombay with sun stroke. From that time,
although her physical health recovered, her memory deteriorated day by day. The doctors who examined her in the United
States determined that she was suffering from Alzheimer's disease. Medical experts are now of the opinion that the
disease is spreading worldwide without regard to young or old. Scientists are still unable to fathom this disease which
afflicts the memory-storing neurons in the brain. It's appropriate here to remind ourselves of U.G.'s warning: "Man's brain is
intended to run efficiently this machine called the body. If the brain is used for any other purpose, mankind cannot but be
subject to the horrible disease called Alzheimer's. It's not cancer or AIDS that will wipe out mankind which has appeared
on the earth as a scourge among living species; the Alzheimer's disease is soon going to spread like an epidemic," says U.G.
With her memory loss Valentine also became less active. That's when U.G.'s troubles started. It was not easy for him to

take her along on his travels. Sometimes an American friend called Kim Lawrence used to take care of Valentine's needs
and go around the world with both of them. For some days, the famous movie star, Parveen Babi, also served Valentine
while she was traveling with U.G. But as Valentine grew older, and as her Alzheimer's disease was advancing, it became
clear to U.G. that she could no longer travel. He felt that she needed to stay in one place for the rest of her life. It was
our sheer good fortune that U.G. decided that Bangalore should be the last stage of Valentine's life journey and that she
should be in our care. It was indeed our good fortune to have been of service to that extraordinary person in her last days.
Before he moved Valentine to Bangalore permanently in September 1986, U.G. arranged a get-together of Valentine with
her younger sister Rose and her elder sister Adrian. "Valentine has gone past the stage of being able to travel, and I cannot
stop traveling for her sake. So, I am going to make arrangements for her to spend her last days comfortably in India. If you
can arrange better facilities for her, I have no objection. I can hand her and her money over to you this instant and go my
way," U.G. said to them.
The two sisters declined: "Look at our own state. We ourselves are dependent on others in old-age homes. What good is
our money to us? Valentine is many times more fortunate than us. Who else besides you can look after her better? You do
whatever you feel is appropriate, U.G.," they said and bid Valentine a final good-bye. Later, a year before Valentine died,
her younger sister, and then, a year after she died, her elder sister, died in Switzerland.
***
Alzheimer's disease, which wipes out the 'self' and erodes the ability to recognize things, may be a frightening disease; in
Valentine's case, however, it created situations which were amusing to everyone. The first incident of Valentine's
forgetfulness which perturbed U.G. occurred in Switzerland: that year, as always, Valentine and her sister Adrian were
reminiscing about their childhood events. After two or three hours Valentine suddenly turned toward Adrian and asked her
seriously, "By the way, how did you happen to know about my childhood events?" Her sister was shocked: "What do you
mean `how'? I am your sister!" "How could you be my sister? My sister is with me here. Look!" and she pointed to U.G. No
one could say a word.
Ever since then such forgetfulness became quite common. On some occasions when she was forgetful, we could not
contain our laughter at the timely jokes Valentine used to make.
When an acquaintance once asked her in the way of greeting, "Who am I Valentine?" Valentine answered, "If you don't

know yourself, how am I to know who you are?"
On another occasion, when U.G. said, "If you keep forgetting everyone like this, Valentine, you may finally forget me too."
She replied mischievously, "You deserve that!" We all broke into laughter.
Once when U.G. and Valentine were traveling on a bullet train in Japan, suddenly Valentine looked around and wondered,
"How come there are so many Japanese in this train?" She calmed down when U.G. explained to her that the reason for
that was that they were in Japan.
When she noticed that U.G. continued to talk to some friends even after dark, Valentine used to get worried that they
might remain there. U.G. explained to her as though she were a child, "They have their own homes, Valentine. They won't
stay here. They will leave after a little while." Then she asked U.G., "If they all leave, what will happen to them?"
Valentine had no real anxiety. No worries. She was always calm. If she became angry, it was just for the moment. Then
she would laugh happily like a baby.
Sometimes, after she ate her dinner, when someone asked her, "Valentine, have you eaten your dinner yet?" she would
reply emphatically, complaining to U.G., "No, they haven't fed me, yet! They haven't given me a morsel of food in ten
days. They have been starving me," with conviction, as if she were expecting everyone would believe her. It used to be
difficult to convince her that she had just eaten a full meal. She used to read newspapers holding them upside down. She
would try to read them aloud in French, and not being able to make sense of them, she would throw them aside.
U.G. used to describe her by saying, "She is in what you would call the state beyond Turiya. There is no state higher than
that. If that isn't the Turiya state, what else is Turiya?" When he asked that question, he didn't sound like he was joking.
In earlier days, Valentine's forgetfulness caused problems for U.G. Once he took her to the Swiss Passport Office in Berne
to get the date of expiration on her passport extended. A couple of other friends accompanied them. When he observed
Valentine, the official in the Passport Office grew suspicious and said he wanted to talk to her alone. U.G. tried in vain to
explain to him her condition. Having no alternative, the company left the room, leaving Valentine alone with the official.
The official came out of the room in just a couple of minutes, wiping the sweat off of his pale face. He had extended the
duration of her passport, but said, "You can take her now. I don't need to see her again." He reported that he asked her,
"Who were all those people who came with you?" and that she replied that she didn't know who they were. When he
showed her her passport and asked her, "Whose passport is this?" she apparently replied that she didn't know. The official
was shocked. Then he showed her photograph to her and asked, "Is this your picture?" she answered seriously, "That's not
mine. Do I look like that?" The official got very confused by her answers.

What was the relationship between U.G. and Valentine? There is no doubt that this question has bothered many people in
different ways. There are friends who have whispered among themselves, "When they both met in Geneva in 1964,
Valentine was 63. But her age could not have been a big barrier for a physical relationship." There are others who
gossiped, "If there was no relationship, why would she give away without hesitation all her property?"
What's interesting is that U.G. and Valentine were never concerned about such rumors. However, after the behind-the-
curtain affairs, the secret romantic adventures, of the world famous philosopher J.Krishnamurti, who was reputed to be a
world teacher, became public through a recent book, some close friends of U.G. were worried that future generations
might misunderstand and gain a mistaken impression of the relationship between U. G. and Valentine. U.G. replied to this
worry unperturbed, "Let them misunderstand. What do I care?"
Once U.G. went to the Bali islands accompanied by Valentine and Parveen Babi, the Indian film star. Parveen needed a
change of weather for health reasons. Everyone knew how even a responsible magazine like India Today reported in big
captions that U.G. had been married to Parveen, and that they both had gone to Bali for their honeymoon. When he
returned to India from Indonesia, press reporters surrounded U.G. and asked him how true those reports were. Then U.G.
replied, "I wish that news were true. What more could an aged person like myself want? What more could I want than a
beautiful and famous movie star like Parveen Babi landing in my lap with a lot of money!" The reporters were disappointed
at U.G.'s answer. When some of his friends suggested to U.G. that he should sue the India Today magazine, U.G. smiled
and brushed the idea aside by saying, "If what they wrote was false, it doesn't bother me. And if it were true, I still am not
bothered."
Valentine was never concerned about the rumors that speculated of a relationship between U.G. and herself who was
already sixty to seventy years old, nor was she annoyed by people's curiosity about the nature of her relationship with
U.G. When asked at different times about why was it that, on the very first day of meeting U.G. she was so mesmerized by
her attraction to U.G. that she deposited twenty thousand dollars in a bank in his name, Valentine would answer with
silence. How can a mind, which insists on believing blindly that for every action of ours there must be a motive, accept
the idea that there can be actions which have no causes?
U.G. has said that there can be true relationship between men and women only when there is no sexual involvement. In
our experience it seems only the relationship between a mother and her children is such a pure relationship. Many believe
that the relationship between Valentine and U.G. was such.
When U.G.'s life was taking a crucial turn, Valentine entered the scene and stood as his support. However, she always

knew clearly that U.G. had no need of her, and she knew that at any moment he was capable of dropping her and her
money and going his own way. She led her life with U.G. in a precarious fashion, a life that could be described in India as:
"Within every day lurks a danger, but you live till you're a hundred anyway," or living as if "wrestling standing on the edge
of a knife." As soon as U.G. took her financial affairs into his own hands, she found no need to continue working at the
Indian Consulate. U.G. directed her to sell all the gold she had in her possession, the antique art pieces she had inherited
from her father, as well as other valuables, so as to convert these items into cash. He then arranged, on the basis of that
cash, a fixed monthly income sufficient for Valentine's needs. In addition, she also received additional money in the form
of a pension from her erstwhile job. With that limited income Valentine and U.G. financed their living in the Saanen area
of the Alps mountains.
U.G., when talking about the intermingling of their lives, has said: "Ever since she met me, Valentine has had no life of her
own as such. She has pretty much led my life."
APPENDIX
I think her greatness would not have been any the less if Valentine had never met U.G. U.G. does not exaggerate it when
he says, "In fact, Valentine's life-story is more interesting than mine." When asked to talk about her life, Valentine rarely
opened her mouth. Nevertheless, I gathered many details -- some were extracted out of her, some were from what I
collected from U.G. who told them to me according to what her sisters had narrated about her to him. I will briefly relate
what I know of Valentine's wonderful life by piecing together all these various details.
Valentine's full name was Valentine de Kerven. She was born in the beginning of the twentieth century, on August 1, 1901,
in a village called La Chaux de Fond in the Zura mountain region of Switzerland. It is noteworthy that that day is the
National [independence] day of the Swiss people. That might be why Valentine was so fond of her freedom.
Valentine's father, Alfred de Kerven, was well known in those times as a great brain surgeon. His books were translated
into almost all the important languages of the world. As he was the one who researched thoroughly a certain glandular
disease of the neck, this disorder, the De Kerven Syndrome, which is mentioned in the current medical textbooks, was
named after him. Valentine was the second of his three daughters.
Valentine had an unusual personality even as a child. She never believed anything blindly. She had to find things out for
herself and act accordingly. She thus developed her artistic tastes and ideas of freedom. When she was eighteen, she

decided to leave home and move to Paris. She wanted to mold her life in her own fashion by mingling with the artists of
that time. But no one in her family liked her plan. When they all tried to prevent her from carrying it out, her father
stopped them: "Don't force her. We all know what she is like. If we come in the way of her freedom, there is a risk of her
leaving us forever. Let her go wherever she wants to go." He persuaded them, and they bade her farewell. He arranged for
a yearly income of two thousand francs wherever she lived.
Valentine never forgot her father's generosity. She indeed loved him deeply. Even after she had married, she was
reluctant to adopt her husband's family name, contrary to the custom there. She insisted on keeping her maiden name.
Even when she had lost her memory because of Alzheimer's disease while she was under our care, her face would shine
with joy whenever there was a mention of her father or she saw a photograph of him.
Valentine's big eyes always shone. There was some intense light in her eyes. I believe that no one could express herself
with her facial expressions and eyes as well as Valentine could. Even when her body withered away in her last days, the
shining in her eyes never went down.
Valentine was an artist from birth. Combined with her free and defiant spirit, her artistic tastes took peculiar forms after
she arrived in Paris. Her interest in drama enabled her to become intimate with many prominent artists in the modern arts
theater of that time. Antonin Artaud was a great poet and philosopher as well as a playwright. Spectators crowded to
watch his plays, but knowing his eccentricity they always kept a respectable distance from him. Valentine was one of the
select few who came close to him. Valentine used to produce in Paris, along with another artist called Dullin, plays
written by Artaud. She did her own designing of the costumes for the plays. The new designs for the dresses which she had
created earned her a notable reputation in Paris, the center of fashions, as an apparel designer. Valentine loved
photography. She practiced it as an art. It did not take long for her to enter the film field. She was more interested in
cinematography rather than acting in the movies. She founded de Kerven Films and produced a variety of documentaries.
The film she made on the life of the Gypsies earned her a reputation as a prominent director. To settle down in life was
repugnant to Valentine. That might have been why she was attracted to the life of the Gypsies which involved living
without security, and in different places, as long as one pleased, and being jovial like a stream. The famous film institute
called Gomo British Theaters showed her documentary in all European countries. She also made documentaries about the
medical researches of her father.
When she started coming to India with U.G., Valentine used to observe with interest the movie industry in India. She
watched some Telugu movies in Madras. In her opinion, Bhanumati was an unsurpassed artist in the South Indian movie

field. According to Valentine, she was quite unique in her acting skill.
At the time of her stay in Paris, Valentine met a Swiss movie maker called Walmar Schwab. As he and Valentine were of
one mind, they worked together amid the artistic and cultural areas of Paris. Gradually their friendship turned into
romance. But she turned down the idea of marriage when it was mentioned, due to her independent spirit. Swiss women
are by nature quite tradition-bound. Revolutionary ideas and independent spirit are scarce among them. It is perhaps hard
to believe that until recently Swiss women had no voting rights. Strangely, it was the women in that country who led a
movement against their own rights. Valentine was unique in the sense that, although born in such a country, she had very
independent ideas, and was interested in free living within her own life. Although she never participated in any women's
movements, her own life, from the beginning to the end, seemed like a liberty movement in its own right.
Valentine never wanted to marry. She detested the institution of marriage. She wondered why a woman should become
subservient to man's authority, and why men and women shouldn't live together without marrying. When she wore pants in
Paris, the center of fashion, women used to throw rotten eggs at her. As her lover had respect for her independent ideas,
they lived together without marrying for twenty years, until the Second World War. Schwab had not had much schooling in
his youth. So, when he was forty, he wanted to get some education. Valentine encouraged him, and gave him whatever
support he needed so he could go to school. He was eventually awarded a doctorate in chemistry, but because he was over-
aged, no one gave him a job.
Meanwhile, the Second World War rushed in. Valentine and Schwab escaped from Paris and took shelter in Switzerland in
an attempt to avoid the Nazis. The laws in Switzerland were very strict at that time: it was a crime, according to Swiss
law, to live together without marrying. When the Swiss police learned that the couple was unmarried, they went after
them. Valentine and Schwab ran into trouble trying to avoid the police, and had to change their residence several times.
They sometimes hid in potato storehouses. At last, unable to bear the pressure of the police chase, they both decided to
get out of the country and get married.
Although they had already lived together for twenty years, Valentine still felt that marriage was a bondage. Just to prove
her independence from the institution of marriage and authority of man, she prepared a marriage contract. According to
that contract, although they were husband and wife legally, neither of them could exercise any rights or restrictions on
the other. They both could feel free to lead their own lives without the permission or interference of the other. Their
incomes were also kept separate. When they married they both signed the contract.
It was not in Valentine's blood to lead a life without turbulence. She never liked that sort of uneventful life. She felt that

a life without adventure or adversity was not her kind of life. She would compete with teenagers in cross-country running
competitions. They were tough competitions and involved running uphill for four or five kilometers. The organizers of the
competitions required her to get a medical certificate saying that she had the stamina to run against women far younger
than her. In spite of these odds, she got her way and participated in the competitions.
Before World War II, Spain was under the dictatorship of General Franco. In those days, when most of Europe was resisting
Franco's aggression, some artists started a movement called the Revolutionary Association of Artists. Valentine joined this
movement, along with her friend, and actively participated in its anti-Franco activities. She even received training, along
with other fighters, in the use of firearms. The fact that she, who wouldn't hurt a fly, became a fighter and took to guns in
order to bring down a dictatorship in a neighboring country indicates how deeply the love of freedom was implanted in her
personality. She dreamt of going into Spain with her friend secretly, joining hands with the Republicans there, and fighting
against Franco. She even had gotten the necessary false passports ready. But when Schwab backed out at the last minute,
she too had to cancel her plans.
After the World War started, Valentine also worked in the Red Cross Society. Earlier, she had received training as a nurse.
I think that only someone like Valentine can express her talents in multifarious ways -- as a fighter, as a nurse and as an
artist.
In 1939, before the onrush of the World War, Valentine contemplated the conquest of the Sahara desert along with her
friend. Even today it is not an easy matter to cross the Sahara Desert on a new motorcycle. Half a century ago, even most
adventurers would not think of such daring deeds. Except for adventurers who contemplated crossing the English Channel
or the Atlantic Ocean, no one would have had the guts to attempt to cross a three thousand mile desert, finding her way
even in the middle of frequently raging desert storms. Valentine had great faith in her powerful 7 1/2 head motorcycle. If
one were to write an account of how she sat Schwab on the back seat and then traveled day and night for three months in
the desolate, terrible desert under the hot sun and in the hot winds, this account would be more interesting than a Jules
Verne novel. The struggles they went through getting supplies and gasoline for the motorcycle, the meals they ate sitting
on the cadavers of camels because they couldn't set their feet in the burning sand, the hospitality of the residents in the
occasional desert villages -- adventures of this sort can only be told by a person such as Valentine. The album of photos
that she assembled still remains with us as a witness of their Sahara conquest. Weekly magazines at that time gave high
praise for their adventurous journey.
After the World War, in 1954, Valentine contemplated another adventure. This time she traveled to India from Switzerland

with her friend Schwab in her Volkswagen car. She came to India for the first time via Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. She and
Schwab drove across India, from Kashmir to Kanyakumari, in their car. It may be from this trip that she developed,
unbeknown to herself, a deep attachment to India. Indian people, especially people from small villages with their simple
living, interested Valentine very much. She was so fascinated by the Indian sleeping cot, with woven twine, that she had
one transported, along with her Volkswagen, on a boat from Ceylon to Switzerland. She used the cot for a long time after
she returned to her country.
After she returned from India, Valentine accepted a job in the Indian consulate in Geneva as a translator. It was about
that time that she severed her relationship with Schwab. Valentine never had any children, even though she lived twenty
years of life with him before their marriage as an unmarried companion, along with twenty more years after marriage.
Meanwhile, an eighteen-year old young lady had come between them. It was such an unexpected and sudden development
that the sixty-year old Schwab fell in love with this woman and started a relationship with her. Although in the light of her
own marriage contract she couldn't find any fault with her husband, Valentine could not swallow the harsh truth of losing
someone whom she thought was her own. That is why later, whenever a discussion about woman-man relationship came
up, Valentine used to say, "As long as there is a tendency among men and women to own each other, no matter how sweet
the relationship is, it will have to turn bitter. No matter how many ideals you cite, and no matter what you do, that
tendency will not go away. If the lives of married couples are horrible, the lives of unmarried couples are even more
horrible."
At that time Valentine was living in a house given to her by her father. Valentine could not tolerate Schwab carrying on an
affair with his new girlfriend. When, not stopping with that, Schwab went ahead and filed a lawsuit in a court asking for a
divorce from her, Valentine's mind was closed to him. At the time of the verdict, the judge read their marriage contract
and asked in shock, "What kind of a marriage is this? How could you call this sort of a contract marriage? With such a
marriage, why would you still need a divorce?" He immediately annulled their marriage and sent them off.
"I never saw Valentine shedding tears. She had the courage to face any kind of hardship," says U.G., "The word `sentiment'
does not exist in her vocabulary." After forty years of relationship with her companion broke up, Valentine started feeling
that her life was in vain. What must she do? Why should she live? She was crestfallen, unable to find any use or aim for her
life. One midnight, unable to sleep, Valentine sat on the banks of the Geneva Lake . For one who had never cared about
her future before, now it seemed terrible. When she told me much later about the mental agony she had experienced that

night, U.G. was with us. U.G. asked, looking at Valentine mischievously, "You didn't feel like jumping into the lake?"
She replied, "No use jumping into the water. I knew how to swim."
U.G. later jokes about her saying, "She must have been afraid that the water in the lake would be frozen from the cold. Or
else she would have jumped in it." She seemed to have been fated to return home that night without attempting anything
drastic on herself, and it was the very next day that U.G. stepped into the office of the Indian Consulate. The lifelines of
those two seemed to have merged on that day and started to move in the same direction: they both had not the faintest
idea of how they were going to live, what their future was, or why they should live. And both their lives were like kites
cast off to the winds of fate.
***
14
Do what you can and forget all about it....
That evening Lulu and Eddie, friends of U.G., brought some nightgowns for Valentine. Valentine did not like them. By the
next morning she forgot that they were hers. She was asking, "Whose gowns are these? How did they get here?" She
continued to deny that they were hers, even after we told her they were.
Suguna, U.G. and I were standing outside the front gate and talking about Valentine's forgetfulness and laughing about it.
Only Nagaraj was upstairs. "I will be back soon. I will have to go to Eddie's house and talk to him about some important
things," said U.G. and started to leave.
Before he could go a few steps, a boy in a torn shirt pursued him begging, "Sami, Sami, Alms, please." While I tried to shoo
him away, U.G. walked away quickly. I turned around to go toward my home. The boy continued to follow U.G. pestering
him for alms. After walking about twenty yards, I could see U.G. taking some money out of his lalchi [shirt] pocket. The
next moment, a currency bill was flapping in the boy's hand. U.G. cleaned his hands, and started walking quickly as
before, as if nothing had happened." There was no trace of the boy anywhere.
"That was a lucky day for that boy. U.G. does not think of how much he is giving away," I said to myself and walked into
the house.
That night, during a conversation with U.G., Suguna brought up the incident of the morning. "I don't know how much I
gave. If I had a hundred-rupee note in my pocket, maybe I would have given that," said U.G. It is surprising to see a person

like U.G., who normally says that he does not believe in charity and generosity, in action.
"Isn't better to do what you can, depending on the circumstances, and forget all about it? If you start institutions and
collect donations in order to remove poverty in the world, would you be really helping the poor and the destitute?" U.G.
asks. "Three quarters of what they collect goes toward the operating expenses of the institutions. Who benefits in the
end?"
"How did you get to be in the position of giving charity to someone else? How can there be paupers if the rich don't rob
them in some fashion? First, we smite their mouths and fill our bags, and then we drop a few grains in the name of charity
just so we get the credit for being a generous donor .... Isn't this what happens?" U.G. asks.
***
"My actions are not run by my thoughts...."
"I don't want to leave at all; but I must," said Venkataramayya sadly. He had to leave town the next day. He came from
Delhi hoping to see U.G. here. Luckily for him U.G. was in Bangalore. So, he stayed with a friend and visited U.G. But the
day arrived when he had to leave. It was his ardent wish to be around U.G as much as possible and spend time taking care
of U.G.'s affairs. On the other hand, he had to go to Delhi for a job or go to Rajahmundry to find some way of making a
livelihood. His way of life consisted of doing a job that he liked, when he wanted to do it, and when he needed the
money, and to live as he liked, the rest of the time. He had spent forty years of his life with this lifestyle. Now, he was
caught deeply in his attraction for U.G.
The next morning, Venkatarmayya came to say goodbye. He perhaps didn't imagine even in his dreams the marvels that
were awaiting him: "I have been waiting for you. I was thinking of sending Chandrasekhar to the train station, if you didn't
come. You stay here till the 2nd of April. I will give you the money to make arrangements for yourself," said U.G. handing
him hundred-rupee bills. Venkataramayya was flabbergasted with joy. His wish was fulfilled. He would not have imagined
that U.G. would treat him so generously. He was very happy. U.G. appeared as if he was sharing Venkataramayya's joy.
"My actions are not things I do after contemplation. Every moment, the circumstances around me determine my response.
I don't know what I do. That doesn't mean I am thoughtless about the future. We believe that if we don't think before
every situation and plan for it, we may be causing hardships for many. On the other hand, we believe that living without
forethought is some sort of spirituality. But in reality that is foolishness and superstition. I am not saying to do any such

thing."
"In my case, my actions are not mine. They are not run by my thoughts. Thoughts have no influence on them. My senses
are what drive this body. Circumstances are the basis for what decision I should take at a given moment, and how I should
act."
"The orders must come from above," U.G. says sometimes, smiling. I believe that he is not joking when he says that.
"This Ajna Chakra plays a major role in the functioning of the body. The yogis call it the Ajna Chakra, but I say it is the
pineal gland. That gland which is beyond the forehead between the eyebrows becomes very active in the Natural State. It
controls all the functions that the body performs. That's why they call it the Ajna [command] Chakra," says U.G.
***
Kangaroos and basketsful of avocados
"I am a very lucky man that I met a man like U.G. Oh, U.G. is a precious gem. He is very unique." When the Australian,
Max, was talking about U.G., he looked as if for the first time he found himself close to realizing the significance of his
life.
There were four of them. Three of them were brothers; and a sister called Mary. She listened to U.G.'s conversations with
a fixed smile and rapt attention. The four of them had the courage to dedicate their lives to spiritual practice. They quit
their own tradition, adopted the Hindu tradition, served gurus, and tried to realize the mysteries of spiritual truths. They
were spiritual aspirants who had made spiritual practice their mission in life.
They saw and heard U.G. and talked to him. I heard in Max's words the sentiment of Kabir expressed in his song "Ram ratan
mai payo...." ["I gained the jewel of Ram"] It wasn't the conversation, it wasn't his jokes, nor U.G.'s eloquence in English.
There was some other authenticity in U.G. that made them slaves to him.
"Where is U.G. going now?" asked Max.
"He went to our house. He will eat there and come back soon."
Max looked thoughtfully at the sky for a moment. He talked to his brothers and asked me hesitantly, "Could we come too.
We are curious about watching U.G. eating his lunch."
"Surely, please come. No problem," I said and took them to my home.
Meanwhile, U.G. and Brahmachariji were coming down the stairs. "Where are the Kangaroos [the pet name U.G. used to

refer to the Australians -- 'kangaru' in Telugu means 'confusion'.]? Have they left?" asked U.G.
"They want to watch you eat. They are sitting inside (downstairs)," I replied.
He said as he greeted them, "It's time to feed this animal. So, you want to see the animal chew its cud!" We all laughed at
this.
U.G. explained to them the details of his meals. "I don't have any requirement that I should have sattvic [mild and gentle]
food. Because there is a defect in my alimentary canal, the food, instead of going into the intestines directly, sometimes
makes trouble. Just like cattle, I too have formed two stomachs as a result of this defect," he said laughingly.
"I can't tolerate Green chili, ginger and pungent spices. If I eat even a bit of them, I get hiccoughs. I have been a
vegetarian ever since I was born. No matter how much you try to avoid it, in foreign countries they mix some meat stuff in
the vegetarian food. It's difficult to explain to them what I want. So I have difficulty in the restaurants. Once, in a foreign
restaurant, the waiter brought me tomato soup with beef stock in it. First, I didn't find any difference. After I drank a
little, my friend told me that `Those red bits are meat!' Yet, it did not cause any disgust in me. 'Meat' is just a sound.
Because I had no idea of meat, there was no reaction in me even when I knew that it was meat. If the same thing
happened to me earlier in my life, I would have vomited it the next moment.
"All the protein I need I get from this pappadam. That's enough. Normally people eat their ideas and tastes. They sprinkle
them on their food and mix their food with them, and they ruin their stomachs and their heads with theories such as:
there ought to be vitamins in a diet for good health, nutrients must be in equal quantities, and the diet must be balanced.
"I like cheese. Yogurt is important. In Switzerland you can find as many as a hundred different kinds of cheese. I am used
to cooking semolina, spaghetti, noodles etc. with cheese."
Suguna used to buy buffalo milk for U.G., and curdle it in a clay pot. U.G. used to relish it.
"If you eat idli and dosai [South Indian breakfast dishes], they have everything in them: in the urad dahl [in these dishes]
there is protein and in the rice flour there are carbohydrates. And that's enough. However, idlis can only be eaten when
South Indians make them. On the other hand, I don't like chapatis [a common Northern Indian bread] made by South
Indians," says U.G.
Once Shanta Kelkar brought some coffee in a thermos. "Whom is it for?" asked U.G. "Is there enough for everyone? If you
want me to drink it, I must have cream with it," he said. The next day cream was brought. "Your coffee is wonderful," U.G.
would admire Shanta's coffee. Since then, she brought coffee everyday. "If I say something is good, you shouldn't
understand it as 'I want more of it'," he used to say.

"I don't have any special interest in eating fruit. Every morning Suguna gives me some orange juice. I like avocado very
much. " It was a mistake on U.G.'s part to express his likes and dislikes in this fashion. The next evening the Australians
brought baskets full of avocados, and several kilos of cheese and cream. U.G. didn't quite know how to store them and so
he became annoyed at this. Much of the stuff was left over after we all ate.
***
"One machine gun will wipe you all out...."
This was an event that happened many years ago. U.G. was then in Bangalore. A correspondent, sent by YNK, the editor of
Prajavani, a Kannada newspaper, came to interview U.G. that evening. The conversation took place in English. When the
conversation turned to Hindu religion and culture, U.G. in his usual style started condemning all the things we normally
consider to be great.
The correspondent asked, "Is there not a single good factor in our culture?"
"No. Not even a single redeeming factor in this culture. I am sorry," emphasized U.G., and elaborated on his viewpoint.
A week later, the newspaper published an article on U.G. written by YNK. The next evening, some RSS [Rashtriya Swayam
Sevak Sangh -- a paramilitary Hindu communal organization] volunteers presented themselves with canes in front of our
house. "How can you say that our culture is inferior. What do you know about it?" so saying they started a commotion.
Unperturbed, U.G. made them sit in the hall and asked them quietly: "Who among you knows about Hindu culture and
religion?" No one answered. They all looked at one another. "I know more about Hindu religion and culture than any of
you. If any of you can prove that my statements are not true, then I will accept that," said U.G. "Do you think you can
protect the great heritage of India by wielding those canes? One machine gun will wipe you all out!" U.G. chided them.
It is irrelevant to report what particular arguments U.G. used to justify his position. U.G. does not like debates. He knows
clearly what he says. He feels that what he knows clearly does not need to be proved. He is also clear that it will not be
clear to others. That's why he does not try to impose his opinions on others.
"The opinions we form, almost all of them, are based on hearsay and other people's values. 'Hindu religion and culture are
very ancient.' 'They are sacred.' 'The ancient Hindus were all sages --' such popular opinions have gone into our blood."
Mere emotion is not useful [and sentiment even less so] in looking at things from U.G.'s point of view when he questions,
"In this country which has been proclaiming for ages the oneness of life and Advaita Vedanta, how come there is such

untouchability and such foolishness?"
"Our respect for and unshaken faith in Hindu culture and civilization must help us look at the current situation from a
proper point of view, but not make us mere blind sheep. Something went wrong somewhere. There is no use blaming
politics, history or circumstances. If every word the ancient sages and wise men had uttered were true, and if the ways of
living they formulated were all so great, then what is the reason for our society to deteriorate and disintegrate so much?"
"What is the difference between other religions and your ancient religion which you are so proud of? What difference is
there in your behavior? You claim to be the stewards of such an ancient religion? Whatever we say must be expressed in
our actions. Mere sentiment that is not translated into practice is just a show."
The only problem for those who listen to U.G. is that U.G. does not have a social outlook. "If man is eradicated from the
face of this earth without a trace, there is no reason to be sorry --" No wonder that such words of U.G. sound like
complete extremism.
***
Keeping a promise -- a rose for Aruna
Normally, U.G. keeps his word, even if he gave it casually. This event occurred some years ago. Aruna [my daughter] was
four years old. When she noticed that U.G. and I were going to the Bazaar, she refused to go to school one day because
she wanted to go with us instead. "You tell me what you want, and I'll get it for you," said U.G. She said she wanted a
rose.
When we were returning home after finishing our business in the Cantonment, U.G. did not forget his promise. "We must
buy a rose for Aruna," he reminded me. We went to the flower market. That was not the season for roses, so we couldn't
find a single rose. We came out empty-handed. On our way home, we stopped our car at several flower shops and looked
for roses.
"Never mind, we will get it when we find it," I tried to get U.G. out of the bargain, but he wouldn't budge. "
I promised it to Aruna," he said and went into the shops of Gandhi Bazaar. We couldn't find any there either. When we
returned home, U.G. sent Valentine to the City Market asking her to buy what she needed and also a rose. And Valentine
bought a rose. U.G. wouldn't leave the matter until he got the flower and gave it to Aruna.
I was surprised to thus see the true colors of U.G. who normally says, "I have no commitment to consistency. I don't care

for my promises. They are like writing on water."
***
Praise and blame are the same to a true sage....
Just as Sri Rama pleads with the sages in the Ramayana, "I am no God, I am merely Rama, son of Dasaratha," U.G.'s
greatness seems to lie in the fact that he does not seem to have any awareness of himself as someone important. U.G.
used to say, "Who am I? And where am I?" In whatever context he is, whomever he is with, he mingles with them. "No
matter how many people are around me, I am always alone," says U.G. He may appear to be doing many things, but he is
not aware of himself doing anything, saying anything, not even that he is eating. That state of unknowing is unimaginable,
something that cannot be experienced; it is uncommon. "You are among people, but you are not yourself any person; you
appear as non-appearing," these words of Suryanarayana written long ago about Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi seem apt
when used in reference to U.G.
Mr. Adri narrated the following event. A while ago, U.G. was in Bombay. A gentleman called Pratap used to visit U.G.
Pratap was one of the people who argued with, criticized and condemned U.G. strongly. That day in the middle of the
conversation, when the argument became heated, Pratap said, "I feel like throwing this ashtray at your face." If it were
someone else, there would have been a great altercation as a result of such a remark. But U.G. appeared unconcerned
about what Pratap had said. He said to Pratap in his usual affectionate manner, "Throw it!"
Speaking on the occasion of U.G.'s birthday, Jnanachakravarti Satyanarayana said, "Perhaps he is the only man who
encourages his critics. I am sure he would be the happiest person if someone calls him a scoundrel to his face. That is his
greatness." As the Bhagavad Gita says, "Praise and blame are the same to the true sage ...."
But is this a purely insensitive state? U.G. says, "No. If someone blames me, I too am pained just like you. But, as soon as
there is a division in the awareness saying, 'This is pain', that feeling burns itself out. The pain does not continue. Its
existence is for that moment only. There is no thinking about it. There is no reaction in me. There is only the response."
A long time ago, when U.G. used to live in the house on Vani Vilas Street, Dr. Bhaktaram came to visit U.G. He reacted to
U.G.'s words and started abusing U.G. in foul language. U.G. did not show any reaction to this. All the time Bhaktaram
continued to talk, U.G. remained indifferent, as if the abuse was not addressed to him. It would have been impossible for
someone else to remain so indifferent.

In Europe, when a Westerner got angry at U.G. and said, "I feel like hitting you with this chair, U.G.," it was to U.G.'s
credit to encourage him without being upset, "Do it!" How many people can understand U.G. when he says, "You must
throw stones at me. I wonder how you people sit around and listen to this crap"? U.G. says, "By giving expression to this
state, I am paving the way for somebody else to come after me and blast what I am saying. That has been the greatest
tradition of India."
***
Going public....
It was the year 1989. The letter U.G. wrote saying, "Hereafter the cascade [of my letters] will reduce itself to a trickle,"
puzzled me. We received a copy of a letter he had written to Mahesh, and the following lines disturbed me as well as my
friends.
"Our visit to Pune and what happened there forced a major rethinking of the whole way of my lifestyle. I refuse to let
myself be transformed into a cult figure or allow what I have been saying to be turned into an institution. It is possible
that I might fail miserably, but the time is approaching, if it hasn't already come, when a great change has yet to take
place. Actually, this year, both in Rome and here this summer, I asked those who come to see me to leave and tell
everybody else that no useful purpose would be served by coming to see me. My theme song to those who persisted in
staying on has been: "I don't want to answer any questions on meditation, yoga, or the teaching of J.K., much less
questions that arise from reading the Mystique of Enlightenment.
"It is not that I am observing a vow of silence, but media will be the medium through which I will express myself from now
on." These last couple of lines were confusing. I could not believe that the same U.G., who normally takes care not let
media journalists come near him, would express his opinions through the media. I wonder what he was going to do?
***
"Keeping your rules to yourself is part of wisdom...."
U.G. is an arch enemy of ancient traditions, beliefs and customs. He also condemns the ignorance, ostentation and pride
that have accumulated in our minds. At the same time, he is moved by the humanness shown by those who sincerely

follow ancient ways.
The following event happened seven years ago. Suguna's grandmother used to live with us here then. She was about 85
years old. She was in good health. Wearing ritually cleaned clothes, maintaining ritual cleanliness, fasting, eating only
once, in the daytime -- her world consisted of these spiritual disciplines. Yet, she was very much interested in knowing
and understanding about things that were going on around her. It's not clear what she thought of U.G. One day she
apparently asked U.G.: "What is moksha? How can one attain it?"
Normally U.G. doesn't give disturbing answers to the questions of elderly people. "Why should I cause unrest in them. Let
them die in peace with their beliefs," says U.G. When the elderly lady asked thus, U.G. asked in reply, "What makes you
think I know the answer?"
"You are a great man. What don't you know?" replied the lady.
"Who told you that I am a great man?" said U.G.
"Nobody needs to tell me. If you are not a great man, why would all these people come to see you? Why would they sit in
your presence?" replied the elderly lady.
He smiled and said, "I don't know anything. Ask Chandrasekhar. He knows about such things very well."
Some days later, during the course of a conversation, I was speaking to the old lady about Vedanta, our Upanishads, and
codes of conduct. She patiently heard me and said, "That's why that great man told me to ask you. You explained those
matters to me very well," she said. I was stunned. "Who told you that? Whatever happened?" I extracted the whole story
from the elderly lady.
When U.G. was staying on Sannidhi Street, 'Father' Chalam came along with Nartaki and others. A small crowd gathered in
the yard in front of the house. Several college students gathered around Chalam and talked to him. Suguna's grandmother
and Valentine were talking to each other under the corner tree. A little while later, Valentine proceeded to distribute
some cookies brought by Nartaki and tried to give one to the old lady too. U.G. was watching all this. He called me and
said, "Watch them. See if your grandmother will take the cookie."
She indeed took the cookie, smiling. When Valentine signed to her to eat, she signed back as if she were saying, "It's O.K. I
won't eat it now. I'll eat it later."
U.G. said: "It takes a great amount self-education to learn not to pain others with one's rules of discipline [cleanliness, in
this case]. It's part of her rules not to eat food not only offered by friends such as Valentine but also any food prepared by
others, but it's her wisdom to keep her rules to herself. Valentine would have been offended if the old lady hadn't taken

her food. It's rare to live with the sophistication of not offending others and yet not violating one's own rules." U.G. often
criticizes Brahmachariji and Krishna Bhagatar for eating snacks from the restaurant down the street or pakodis on the
street and yet bragging about their ritual cleanliness and discipline.
***
No prior appointments....
As everyone knows that there is no need to wait for a fixed appointment or time to see U.G., people come at different
times. On Sundays, from morning until night various people continuously come and go. When U.G. came this year [1985-
86], one day he was talking incessantly without a respite. The visitors came and left one after another. Even after it was
past the time for lunch, the hall did not become vacant. One group of people went downstairs and left. Then Jagadish
arrived. U.G., who was sitting leaning against the wall, stood up and said to us, smiling, "This has turned into a barber
shop. One after another, people come and get their hair cut. They have been coming since morning without a break." We
all laughed aloud. True. What U.G. performs is the Big Tiru Haircut. Without a penny's expense the burden of their Karma
is diminished. If we offer to regulate the inflow of people, because their uninterrupted visits are an inconvenience to him,
U.G. refuses. "This is how it should be. There should be no special duration, prior appointment, and such," he says.
***
15
"If she gives me this house, I will turn it into a brothel...."
It was perhaps in 1977 that U.G. first went to Ramanasthan. I accompanied him there. Ms. Talyarkhan, a devotee of Sri
Ramana Maharshi, invited U.G. to her ashram. We all went with him. That afternoon, Arunachala acquired a real beauty in
the cool sunshine. U.G. went up to the terrace of the house of Talyarkhan, and looking at the hill of Arunachala in front of
him, he remarked, becoming breathless with excitement, "Look, how great is the scenery! It's fantastic; it's wonderful.
The hill is so near! I feel like staying here forever."
Talyarkhan pleaded with U.G., "I will give this whole ashram to you. Please stay here."

U.G. laughed and shook his head as if to say, "That's all of no use."
Nartaki too pressed U.G. "You feel good here. Why not stay here?" she said.
Talyarkhan begged many times, "I will change the title of this ashram to your name. I will be happy if you stay here."
"No way," said U.G. turning to me and laughing. "Tell her this: if she gives this house to me, the next day I will turn it into
a brothel or a bordello."
I was shocked at this. How hurt Talyarkhan must have been when she heard this! Who could imagine that words of this sort
would come out of a person like U.G.? Why did U.G,. who wouldn't normally hurt a fly, say something so offensive and hurt
someone's feelings? Sometimes, U.G.'s words and deeds are so shocking. What was his intention? I think now that U.G. used
such abusive language to break down Talyarkhan's pride and egotism. She never mentioned the question of the ashram
again, perhaps because she became frightened of U.G. Once before this incident she came to Bangalore in a car with
'Father' and others to see U.G. I think she avoided U.G. altogether after this incident.
***
"There is a lot to be done by the body....You cannot die!"
This morning at 9 a.m., Suguna, the children, Nagaraja Rao, a friend, and I -- we all talked to U.G. I want to relate here
the details of the experience that happened to U.G. last night -- not an ordinary experience, but the divine experience
which U.G. described in Telugu. Why I am calling it a divine experience is that such experiences do not happen normally
to anyone, not that I want to attribute to them any spiritual value.
"Last evening, I had such inexpressible anger. How I condemned the Buddha, Jesus and other incarnate prophets! How I
poured abuse on them! I was furious. Irrepressible anger. It hasn't subsided even now as I am talking to you. My anger did
not subside with all that abuse. I went to bed with it. My whole body was burning. Flames, flames. Everything was burning
with that irrepressible anger. It felt as though the whole house was burning along with my body. Everything was gone. The
whole body was going to turn to ashes. I was saying [to my body], 'You can go [die] now.' Meanwhile, someone said, 'No,
you cannot. There is a lot to be done by the body.' It sounded like a dialogue which J.K. had with Death. Slowly, the
burning in the body calmed down and the body became normal.
This morning Sampat came and said he had a dream last night that U.G. had died. "There was a huge wail inside myself;
irrepressible sorrow. How much I cried in the dream! I set out right away to come to see him," said Sampat.

"In Bangalore, in Subbanna's house, something similar happened once to you," I said to U.G. I asked him, "You mentioned
that your experience was that your body was burning. Was this experience the same?"
"When compared with this, what happened then was not worth mentioning. When compared with this heat -- the flames
that happened last night -- that was nothing. It was pleasant. Last night, the rage, the anger and the flames haven't
subsided yet ," said U.G.
Sampat spoke later: "I never had such an experience before. Normally I am not moved by death. In my dream last night,
U.G. was talking sitting in a chair and suddenly breathed his last. Then I was looking at a photo of U.G. in a dancer's
house. Immediately there was big cry within myself, an unceasing cry. I felt that I was never going to see him again. That's
why I came running early in the morning. I didn't even feel like phoning first before I came. I felt that I couldn't very well
ask someone on the phone, "Is U.G. still alive?"
***
Why is the moth attracted to the flame?
Why is the moth so attracted to the flame? What kind of courage is it which enables it to throw itself into the fire? Julie, a
friend of U.G. from New York, has a similar courage. She must possess that foolish bravado of burning everything and
turning everything into ashes in the fire of U.G. Toward the end of last December [1995] U.G. came to India. He told Julie
not to come with him. He told her nicely, and he threatened her too, that if she came there would be no place for her
around him. She knew the consequences of not doing what U.G. told her to do. Yet, it is beyond me to understand why
Julie couldn't remain in California. One morning she landed in Madras without notice, with the excuse of bringing some
computers to India. Her bags, which contained two computers, many video tapes, couscous which she bought specially for
U.G., oats, and other food stuff, were all missing. In the attempt to trace them, she spent four days in Madras. U. G. was
then in Yercaud. Julie called U.G. and said, "My luggage is lost. What should I do?" Finally, U.G. agreed to let her come to
Yercaud. She came, and three days later we all started back to Bangalore. Three days after that, on February 6, U.G. sent
her away. He made her take her computers back with her. He scolded her in the presence of everyone in the Bangalore
Holiday Inn, and furiously told her not to show her face to him again.
Why did Julie want to carry all that silly food that far for U.G.? Why was U.G. so adamant in not letting her stay for a few
days longer, and why did he make her take the return trip to the U.S.? U.G. can't stand her presence. Yet, he loves to

have other friends like Bob and Paul [Robert Carr and Paul Arms]. But he gets annoyed by Julie, who would kill herself for
him. Julie is a great lady who would hug the very feet that would kick her.
***
Dr. Sriramachandra Murty, U.G.'s brother
In February U.G.'s younger brother Dr. Sriramachandra Murty came to visit U.G. People generally address him as 'Ramu'. He
is one of the most distinguished mathematicians in the world. He is professor at a university in Canada. I took him with me
in a car to Yercaud. He liked the weather there, U.G.'s presence, the friends around U.G., and the surroundings of
Yercaud. We stayed in Yercaud and returned to Bangalore on the 8th. On the way, in the car, when I asked Ramu what he
thought of U.G. , Ramu said, "I saw him long ago in my childhood. Later, perhaps in 1970, I spent a week with him in
Switzerland. Recently U.G. came to Canada and stayed with me for a couple of days. The time I have spent with U.G.
hasn't been much. The more I observe him, the more remarkable a man he seems to be. I notice that the ring of authority
behind his words seem to silence everyone. Even scientists seem to have to bow before that authority. It's amazing how he
acquired that strength of authority." True. The tone of authority in U.G.'s words, and the unhesitant certainty, the
undefiable authority -- who knows how many people's lives it is meddling with!
***
The Aquarian Age -- Mr. Raju
In February, for a few days U.G. camped in the Malladi 's [Malladi Krishnamurti, a friend of U.G. in Madras] old residence.
One day, The Bob and Paul Duo put on an amazing performance of their magic in Mr. Krishnamurti house for everyone's
entertainment. Bob Carr had been a professional magician in the past. By the time, on February 16, Mr. Raju [an
astrologer friend of Mr. Krishnamurti] arrived, the whole atmosphere around U.G. was filled with the perfume of
astrology.
Mr. Raju had come from Masulipatam to see U.G. U.G. repeatedly showed him his palm and pestered him to tell about his
future. "Ingram Smith read my palms in Australia and said that the lines in my left palm have been changing. He
interpreted the lines as indicating that the femininity in me is growing stronger than the masculinity." He showed us the

lines in his left palm.
Mr. Raju said, "On April 2 the planet Uranus is entering the constellation of Kumbha." In U.G.'s horoscope Uranus is in
Kumbha. Mr. Raju opined that it was very significant that at this time in the planetary movements Uranus happened also
to enter Kumbha. "The Aquarian Age which the whole world has been waiting for for years is going to start on April 2.
Those who will be born in this Age will be able to easily grasp U.G.'s message and incorporate it in their lives. The essence
of U.G.'s message must reverberate throughout the world in every area," said Mr. Raju.
U.G. immediately retorted by saying, "That's inevitable. Even scientists cannot swallow what I say. I am uprooting the very
theories which they use as foundations to build their edifices of scientific theories. It's not possible for them to accept [my
attack]. Thus, it's not just the nostril-closing religious buffs that pick up a fight with me. It's certain that the best of the
intellectuals in every field will declare a war on me."
U.G.'s German astrologer friend, Nataraj, says the same thing. Mr. Raju argued that there must be some link between the
[position of] Uranus in the horoscopes of those close to U.G. and the [position of] Uranus in U.G.'s horoscope. "What about
you?" I asked Raju.
Raju smiled and replied, "In my horoscope Uranus is in Kumbha, just like in U.G.'s horoscope." There was then a discussion
about how the Uranus in the horoscope of each person present was linked to the Uranus in U.G.'s horoscope.
***
"You and I are stray dogs...."
A young man called Ashok came to see U.G. that evening. Apparently Sashidhar, who works in the J.K. Library, told him of
U.G.'s arrival in Madras. Even after I invited him in, he hesitated for a while wondering whether he should or should not
come in. After lingering by the doorway for a while, he came in and sat on the edge of a sofa in a cringing fashion. It was
apparent that he was overwhelmed by the joy of meeting U.G. "I read a couple of your books. I don't feel like talking
about them to anyone. I can't express in words how strong a hold they have on me," he said in a faltering voice.
"If you still came to see me this far after reading those books, it's evident how little effect they have had over you," said
U.G. in a ridiculing fashion.
At this remark, the boy turned pale. He didn't move his lips after that. U.G. didn't give him an opportunity to speak,
either, and talked incessantly for a long time. The following are a few samples of the gems that came out U.G.'s mouth

that evening:
"There is more life in the chorus of the barking dogs than in the music of the singing performances of famous singers like
Balamurali and Musuri Subrahmanyam.
"You and I are two stray dogs. We make some sounds. You are not listening to me if you are finding some marvelous
meanings in my barking. You are not understanding a bit.
"What is music? It's a pause between two sounds, between two notes. All our tastes are a result of the conditioning
imposed on us by our culture. We form our likes and dislikes according to our tastes. We call one sound 'harsh', and
another one we call 'the sound of gods' and go into ecstasies. I don't like Northern Indian music. All the things that come
from the North of the Vindhyas are taboo to me -- Northern Indian music, Northern Indian foods, Northern Indian dresses
and languages -- all of them.
"The body is not concerned about tastes. What it needs is some food, for energy. You can eat sawdust and fill your
stomach. For taste you can add a little glue to it. In that you will find all the nutrients necessary for the body. I have been
a vegetarian all my life. Yet, I don't eat vegetables nor do I drink milk. I don't like fruit. What is lacking in my health? All
the doctors who have watched me eat cream warned me that I would die of a heart attack from the cholesterol in it, and
they are all dead now. I am now seventy five years old. I have no diseases. Eating more than you need is the cause of all
diseases. I don't need any medicines or treatments. Still, I wish that the pharmaceutical business of the Malladi's should
prosper for a long time!
"Man is the architect of his own fortune and the molder of his destiny. However, when we have to share our lives with
someone else, we need give and take. Everything changes after that [after a relationship starts]. After I married, I couldn't
avoid compromising sometimes. Yet, I was firm in some matters. My life principle is and has always been, "Get along [with
me] or get out!"
"The middle class is a threat to this society." U.G. elaborated this by saying that the middle class stands in the way of the
poor class revolting against the rich class and destroying it. The middle class is a solace for the lower class. It creates the
hope [in the poor] that they too will attain that status some day. Thus, the poor suppress their discontent and intolerance.
"Who will benefit from technological progress? How has it helped the lower classes? " asked U.G. All the countries in the
rest of the world are plotting to see how they can trap the two hundred million middle class people in India. There is no
other idealism than that for the rich nations. U.G. handed out a new slogan that day, "The middle class must perish!"
"Religious fanaticism is a disease that afflicts this society. It is that fanaticism that made this country emaciated and

useless. The Americans are going to turn this country into a body-selling prostitute. At least now, P.V. [Narasimha Rao, the
then Prime Minister of India] should resign from his office, dissolve the Parliament, and hold elections," said U.G.
commenting on P.V.'s politics.
***
The body's functioning is opposed to this pleasure movement....
In Yercaud many Western faces gathered around U.G.: The Duo of Bob and Paul had brought a Sony video camera with
them for which they had paid three thousand dollars. They wanted to make a documentary on U. G. As they didn't quite
know how to make a documentary, they were taking videos of the rocks, the trees and the flowers. Whenever they got a
chance, they not only made U.G. talk of this and that, but they also made him cuss as explicitly as possible by encouraging
him to use expletives. They were trying to preserve on the video tape such situations, so that future generations can
witness the Natural Man's cultural message and be saved! The future generations should also be grateful for the fact that
Mahesh Bhatt not only directed this activity, but also participated in coaxing these particular words of wisdom out of U.G.
In March, the German astrologer Nataraj, came to Yercaud with a friend of his called Peter, who was also a Rajneeshee.
U.G. nicknamed Peter, who is strong, tall and burly like a bodyguard, 'the Bouncer'. The name his guru gave him was
'Neerava' [shade]. The glory of that name fizzled next to U.G.'s nickname.
I didn't realize that the scene at Yercaud from U.G.'s drama of wilderness living would soon come to a close. He prepared
the stage for the end of it on March 7 early in the morning. He had contracted to have the wooden wall between his room
and the Major's room opened and a door put in it. He vacated his room and arranged for all of his things to be moved to
Bangalore, then handed over to the Major the whole of the South side of the Yercaud Bungalow, and he himself became
homeless.
That day Mahesh was arriving in Bangalore from Bombay. Early in the morning the Major, U.G. and I were traveling in the
car to the airport. The young sun was sparkling with colors all over the sky like an orange. The Major looked out the
windshield, unable to contain his excitement. "Look how bright the sun is today," he said, and it was as if he was giving
expression to the feeling inside me.
U.G., who was sitting in the front seat next to the Major, took him on right away. "To get so excited is exactly what a
pleasure movement is. I am not saying it is wrong. I am only saying that if you want liberation, that same pleasure

movement is an obstacle. The body's functioning is completely opposed to this pleasure movement. It won't get excited
like you, saying, 'Ah, oh!' As soon as I saw the sun, my eyes closed automatically. There is no movement in my head saying,
`How beautiful!'" U.G. said. Our mouths shut.
***
Before the body dies, God must die....
When we were returning with Mahesh from the airport, U.G. said, "Unless you abandon the idea of God in yourself, the life
in you cannot carry on. Before the body dies and becomes immobile, God must die in you. That is true immortality. [True]
living is only possible after God dies.
***
"It will not do to give them away to your neighbors...."
When we were still in Yercaud, one morning I was cooking oats in the kitchen for breakfast. U.G. came in to eat his second
breakfast. He usually eats once early in the morning a first breakfast of parched rice and milk. Then, later, he eats
another breakfast of oats and cream. He looked at all the pots and pans on the stone bench in the kitchen and asked
impersonally, "Why does a single person need so many pots and pans?" referring to the Major. "This is what I mean by
hoarding. It is weird for a person who cannot let go of his pots and pans to want liberation," he said and took some empty
cups, spoons and a plate into his room. For U.G.'s taste the kitchen and the refrigerator must be empty. "If not for mere
craziness, why keep vegetables in the refrigerator?" he says, annoyed.
When U.G. saw the Major, he interrogated him about why he should keep so many pots and pans. "I don't need all those
things. If you want me to, I will get rid of them instantly," said the major angrily.
"It will not do to give them away to your neighbors. That would be giving to the undeserved, which is a great sin," said
U.G. reminding the Major of the movie Maya Bazaar which they had watched on the video the night before. It wasn't clear
to the Major, then, who the deserving receiver of the gift was! Not just to the Major; to no one else was it clear!'
***

"What if the husband dies after marriage?..."
In March U.G. stayed in the Purnakutee for many days. That morning Shanta, a friend of U.G. in Bangalore, came to
Purnakutee with Mittu, her daughter. As soon as she saw Bhaskara Rao, a Vedanta scholar and palmist, also a friend of
U.G., she held out her left palm and asked him, "Please look at my palm, and tell me how my future looks!"
As Bhaskara Rao was reading her palm, U.G. came downstairs into the hall. As soon as he noticed Bhaskara Rao, U.G. said,
"I only want to know of one thing: how is her love life going to be? That's all I am concerned about. She has plenty of
beauty and she has money. She is also intelligent. She just doesn't have a husband. Anyone would jump with joy to have
her," he said. Then he asked Mittu, "What do you say?"
"What you say is right," Mittu answered, supporting U.G.
Shanta was considering a prospective bridegroom for Mittu. Some astrologer had warned Shanta that Mittu has a Kuja
dosha [defect], and that if she were to marry before she was 24, there would be a danger of the husband dying too soon.
Shanta was frightened. She asked me if it was advisable for her to consult Satyanarayana. "When U.G. is here, why should
you consult someone else? Present your problem to U.G.," I told her. She duly reported the astrologer's bad news to U.G.
U.G. listened and said, "Let there be Kuja dosha. You have told me that the groom's family is rich. So, what if the husband
dies after marriage? No problem. Mittu will inherit a lot of property. Then she can marry someone else."
When U.G. solved her problem so easily, Shanta was horrified, and Brahmachariji, who was right there also, covered his
ears in shock saying, "Rama, Rama." He continued, "My God, what kind of a Brahmajnani is this?" and then left quickly.
***
"Isn't a registered marriage enough?"
Rangarajan was a design engineer in the HMT [Hindustan Machine Tools] factory. He had been mentally ill for the last ten
years. He had been given some shock treatments and now was managing to be normal with the help of medications. He
never quit coming to see U.G. all those years. He had been a follower of the Radha Somi Bhakti Pantha, a spiritual path in
the North of India. He now was a staunch devotee of Charan Singh Maharaj, a spiritual master in the same path. He is an
innocent man who gave thousands of his hard-earned of rupees to the ashram and became indebted. Recently he had a
strong desire to marry. About four months ago, he advertised in the papers, wrote letters, and chose a bride. All that

happened suddenly. When he heard that U.G. was in town, he came, accompanied by his prospective bride.
"You are all-knowing. You know everything," he said introducing the girl next to him as his prospective wife.
U.G. looked at them both alternatively. The girl hailed from Tanguturu in Ongole District. She went to school in Andhra
University. She appeared intelligent. "You couldn't find a better fellow than this?" he said to her smiling sympathetically.
The girl dropped her head. Rangarajan explained that he announced in the advertisement that he used to be mentally ill,
and that he had already explained to the girl his condition. "How much are you spending for your wedding?" asked U.G.
Rangarajan replied, "Fifty thousand."
"Why spend fifty thousand? Isn't a registered marriage enough?" asked U.G. Rangarajan said his elders would not agree to
that. "If they don't agree, poison them and kill them. Why waste money unnecessarily? What merit will you gain from
that?" asked U.G. We were all worried that after listening to U.G.'s words Rangarajan would lose his mind again. When
U.G. asked, "All these years, you only used to beat your mother. From now on you will beat your wife too?" Rangarajan
turned pale. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I witnessed the manner in which U.G. greeted the new couple who
were about to be auspiciously married.
***
"Am I not better than Rama?
We all watched the movie Sita Rama Kalyanam on the video. U.G. admired the character of Ravana, as played by N.T.
Rama Rao in the movie, very much. "I don't understand why all those old fogies consider Rama as a great man and praise
him. Ravana appears to me to be many times superior. He treated Sita with great respect. Rama, on the other hand, asked
her to walk into fire. Without pitying her because she was pregnant, he sent her away into the jungle. I, on my part, sent
away my wife with honors by seating her in a jumbo jet. Am I not better than Rama?" We couldn't stop laughing at U.G.'s
words. He said, "I liked very much the portrayal of Ravana in this movie not as a demon, but as a unique person."
***
"Why should you become a victim of infamy?"
U.G. likes to make fun of Brahmachariji. This time there was a young lady called "Gorgeous" [Lisa] present. The young lady

jokingly showed off her beauty as if she were saying, "Look at me and look at my beauty." U.G. accused Brahmachariji of
eyeing the lady out of the corner of his eye. "Oh, no, I am not even thinking of her," complained Brahmachariji. When U.G.
started calling him names such as, "Brahmachari, peeping Tom," Brahmachari seemed indifferent. That indifferent
response surprised us all very much.
A similar incident occurred two years ago. Brahmachariji had rented an apartment upstairs in the house of a friend of
mine, with a plan to be near U.G. U.G. had only one objection to his staying in Poornakutee: Brahmachariji's craving for
tasty food would commit and confine Suguna to the kitchen. U.G. remarked to Suguna in front of Brahmachariji, "The
farther he is from Poornakutee, the better it is. Or else, he will establish himself right here and sit on your shoulders." My
friend then reported to U.G. the 'good news' that Brahmachariji had hired a widow, who was a distant relative of his, to
cook for him. U.G. was worried that Brahmachariji, who is a staunch bachelor, would undergo all these troubles for his
sake and become a victim of bad reputation. Immediately, U.G. got us all up saying, "Let's go, let's find out what's
happening." Brahmachariji had no idea that we were all going over to raid his house along with U.G. suddenly, without
notice.
When we arrived, as U.G. pushed the front door open, the widow saw him and withdrew into the kitchen. While
Brahmachariji, being both overjoyed and confused, was spreading the mats for us all to sit, U.G. said with a serious face,
"There is a verse in the Upanishads in which the father looks at his son's shining face and says to him, 'Your face is shining
now like that of someone who had realized Brahman.' Similarly, your face now is shining like that of someone who has
experienced the pleasure of copulation last night."
We all broke into laughter at this. Brahmachariji covered his ears saying, "Siva, Siva!" U.G. also kept laughing with us.
Brahmachariji tried to defend himself by saying, "No, U.G., she sleeps in the kitchen, and I sleep in this room," and
pointed to his cot.
U.G. teased him some more: "How can this small cot be big enough for both of you?" Finally U.G. said, "Brahmachari, I wish
you well. You earned a good reputation for yourself among all these people all these years. Why should you, at this age,
become a victim of such infamy? Even if you both intend well, if she lives in this house with you, wouldn't everyone talk ill
about it? You first send her off to her home town," said U.G., averting Brahmachariji's fall into ill-repute.
***

1. Sri Chakra is a design for meditation with sacred syllables carved on a metal plate worshipped in the temple.
2. When this passage was read to U.G., his explanation was that his `fainting' occurred because the plate was too heavy
and he was feeling week, and that it had nothing to do with `energy'.
3. When this passage was read to U.G., his 'editorial comment' was: "And such things happen to me even when I am on the
toilet."
4. Mahesh's Taxi driver was a Tamil speaking man. When they were in the Bhut Bungalow, he apparently offered his
prayers to God in this fashion.
5. First line in a song of Thyagaraja, South Indian composer who, in this song, was singing the praise of Janaki, Rama's
wife.
6. Later, when asked why he suddenly decided to go public, U.G. explained that he became sick and tired of the religious
buffs of all shapes, sizes and colors coming to him, and so he thought that the media men would do a better job in putting
across what he wanted to convey without involving themselves. "I have a motive in going public. Somebody out there,
struggling to find answers to his questions, may listen to what I am saying and stop in his tracks," said U.G.
7. Tirukshavaram -- the balding of the head at a ritual hair offering to the God Venkateswara in Tirupati, the idea being
that U.G. relieves people of their burden.
8. Bob Carr and Paul Arms are old friends of U.G. and were visiting U.G. in India from San Rafael, California. Bob and
Paul's lives were in transition. Trying to figure out their futures, they came to Yercaud following U.G. They were thinking
of opening a coffee house after returning to San Francisco. Since they had previously sold the restaurant which they were
operating in Marin County, California, they now were needing to find another means of livelihood.
PART FOUR
16
"I said to the sages: `Drown and never rise again....'"
It was perhaps in December 1976. We arranged for U.G.'s stay in Bangalore in Sannidhi Street, across the street from the

Mallikarjuna Swami Temple. That evening, Brahmachariji came to visit U.G. from his Ashram in Bannerghatta. It had by
then become customary for U.G. to spend without fail two or three nights in Brahmachariji's Jnanasram whenever he came
to Bangalore. It was from U.G.'s giving the first donation that Jnanasram came into existence.
In the Ashram, Brahmachariji had built not only a school, but also a Ganapati temple. He had just gotten the image of
Ganapati installed and was deeply immersed in the construction activity of the temple. U.G. forced Brahmachariji to stay
in Bangalore, without returning to the Ashram. Brahmachariji tried to excuse himself saying that he had to perform the
worship of Ganapati, but U.G. said he could perform the worship in Bangalore.
It was a winter night. The cold wind outside was penetrating through the holes of the closed doors. We all listened to
Brahmachariji's recitation of the Ganapati Upanishad. U.G. sat on a rug on the floor in the lotus posture. Brahmachariji sat
facing him. The recitation went on for about twenty minutes. All that time U.G. sat motionless, with eyes closed, in his
lotus position.
The things U.G. said after the recitation stunned everyone: "I feel as if the sounds of the mantras are coming out of
myself. I had the experience of the sound going around in circles with a sort of rhythm and spreading throughout my
consciousness." He demonstrated those circular movements with hand gestures. "Suddenly all that took the shape of
Ganapati. In my consciousness my face became the face of Ganapati. My nose stretched and drooped down like an
elephant trunk. Then, as though something snapped, the movement stopped. The form was erased. Perhaps there was
some mistake in your recitation at that point."
Brahmachariji admitted that was true. He said that he forgot the mantra at a certain place, and repeated those portions
of the mantra to the end without errors. "Now it's all correct. There are no gaps in the movement. Everything is quite
rhythmical. Perhaps the sage who wrote that Upanishad must have been reflected here because of the sounds," said U.G.
U.G.'s words sounded astonishing. I felt that we could believe in those experiences because it was U.G. who was narrating
them. The thought that the sage Ganaka, who wrote the Upanishads hundreds or thousands of years ago, took his own
form and appeared in U.G.'s consciousness thrills me even now. How was this possible? U.G. explains this process in terms
of modern physics. According to it, sound waves can be transformed into electromagnetic waves and those in turn into
light waves. The light waves can again be transformed back into sound waves. But all that is achieved through scientific
instruments. Perhaps in the case of U.G., all that is possible without the help of those instruments.
The sage's existence must somehow be embedded in the mantras created by him, in their sound. U.G. said, pointing to
himself, "Because there is no division here, all those sounds, along with the form imbedded in them, have echoed in my

consciousness."
Something similar was said to have happened when U.G. was once living in the Tirthagundi Coffee Estate. That town is in
the Chikkamagaluru District of Karnataka. Around 1968, U.G. was in its guest house for almost four months.
One day, suddenly a scene presented itself to U.G. It wasn't quite a vision, nor was it a dream. It was as though it actually
occurred in front of his eyes. Three sages in the middle of a big lake, with bushy beards, and submerged up to their necks,
appeared in the scene. They stretched their arms toward U.G. and cried, "U.G., we are drowning, please rescue us."
"Who are you?" U.G. asked them.
"We are your ancestors. Hurry up and save us," they said. Then U.G. understood that they were his clan sages whose
names were Atreyasa, Arjunasya and Syavasya.
"You deserve the punishment. Drown and never rise again," said U.G.to them. Then, helpless, they drowned and the scene
disappeared. U.G. said that all the visions that started occurring after his Calamity ended with this.
How do all these strange events occur? This wasn't a fabricated story, nor was it magic. If, on the other hand, we think
that U.G. somehow imagined them, we know that he never believes in such things. "If a miracle happened right in front of
my eyes, I still won't believe it," says U.G.
Then how do we explain this? Why do such accidental events occur? Why do they happen only to someone like U.G.? While
Brahmachariji was reciting the Ganapati Upanishad, we were all present. Why didn't that sage Ganaka appear in our
consciousness? If we asked such questions, U.G. tries to evade them saying, "They are all mere experiences. Don't torture
your heads with such questions." If we persist in our questioning, he throws us into some more confusion by talking about
light and sound; he talks as if this is a very ordinary matter known even to a fifth grade kid. When I think about it, it
appears to me that we should just observe such events and keep quiet, and that it is foolish to try to know about their
true nature or understand them scientifically. We don't know anything. I am also certain that U.G. too does not know
[about these things] in the way we try to know. We have no way of knowing at what level he knows. All we can do is gossip
about strange events like this.
All the genteel folk in Bangalore came to know of that night's incident. U.G.'s ability to find errors in Brahmachariji's
recitation surprised our friend Satyanarayana, who was utterly devoted to studying scriptures like the Vedas. He was even
more interested in what U.G. had said about how he would know the original sounds from the movements [within himself]
which recreate the mantras, regardless of any errors that might have rolled into the recitation, and regardless of the
additions and modifications made to the original mantras of the rishi.

There is a belief that the Vedas were authorless revelations, and were handed down for thousands of years from
generation to generation in accordance with tradition. There was always a possibility of additions and modifications
seeping into them. Thus, Satyanarayana became keenly interested in selecting and memorizing, as much as it was possible
for him, the portions of the Vedas composed originally by the rishis. For many years before that, he had already been
studying the Vedas with a teacher.
Every year, when he came to Bangalore, U.G. used to stay for two or three months. Satyanarayana, along with his friend
Sashidhar, started reciting the Vedas every Sunday, early in the morning, for two hours, in U.G.'s presence. Before they
started, when they asked U.G.'s permission to recite the Vedas in his presence, U.G. responded, "Go ahead, by all means.
As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between a dog's barking, a cat's mewing and Vedic sounds. Recite the
Vedas and as for myself I will sit down and listen." That was how the sorting out of the Vedic mantras began.
Every Sunday, early in the morning, Satyanarayana, Sashidhar, and sometimes their fellow student Chandrasekhar, would
come to U.G.'s residence in the Anjaneya Temple Street, after their early morning oblations. U.G. got ready after his bath
and sat on the mat in the hall before they arrived. By that time, I and a couple of other friends joined him to hear the
Vedic recitation of Satyanarayana and company. Before they started, not heeding his attempts to stop them, they would
prostrate before U.G. They excused themselves by saying, "This is our Vedic tradition, U.G. The Rudra Patha we are going
to recite is full of salutations [to Shiva]. "But," U.G. complained, "when I keep saying that there is no power apart from
you, why do you do me such honors?" When they countered, "Please excuse us, we have not grown into that state yet,"
U.G., being helpless, kept quiet. After finishing the recitation they would again prostrate in front of U.G., reciting, "na
karmana na prajaya ...". We too followed suit. We weren't aware of it in our singlemindedness, but U.G. felt irked by such
behavior on our part.
U.G. wore pajamas and jubba at the time of the recitation. It was bitter cold outside. Amidst those four walls we were all
clad in dhotis and wore ashes on our foreheads. We would doze off every now and then, while watching U.G. from time to
time. As for U.G., he would sit straight in the lotus posture with closed eyes. One day, as he sat, he removed his jubba
and under-shirt, and remained there until the recitation was finished.
Mahesh too was in Bangalore with us then. Those were the days when Parveen was living with U.G. Learning that U.G. sat
down removing his upper clothing, Mahesh teased U.G. saying, "Oh, I missed U.G.'s strip tease show!"
We sat there even after the Vedic recitation was all over. Sometimes, U.G. would mention what sort of movements of
energy the Vedic recitation would cause within himself, where the recitation was flawed, and in what stages of the

recitation there were breaks in the energy movements. All those details sounded marvelous to listen to. Satyanarayana
kept a record of them.
One day, they were reciting `arunam'. U.G. was, as usual, sitting in his lotus posture. Nartaki was also with us then. After
they finished the recitation U.G. said, "While you were reciting, I felt that suddenly I too joined my voice and recited with
you for about fifteen minutes." When she heard this, Nartaki became excited and said, "That's very strange, U.G. I too
clearly heard a third voice along with theirs. I was wondering whose voice that was and looked around."
Later, U.G. told us: while the two [Satyanarayana and Sashidhar] were reciting, they disappeared and in their place two
dark and bulky sages appeared, reciting the Vedas. One had his hair knotted on top of his head, and the other had a big
bushy beard. U.G. thought that the portions of the arunam that were being recited were authored by them and the
remaining portions made place for themselves in the text [of the Vedas] in course of time.
Another time, the two scholars [mentioned above] were reciting Sikshavalli and Bhrguvalli in the Taittiriya Upanishad.
After listening to it all U.G. said, "Those mantras all sound like the trashy lectures given by the vice-chancellors in the
universities at the time of giving diplomas. They sound as if the writers of the Upanishads were repeating what they had
learned, but the sounds do not express any experience." When we were listening to him, U.G. reported, the movement of
energy in him was attempting to form circles, and was subsiding before it completed a circle -- like an aeroplane making
futile attempts to lift off into the air from the ground.
I remember that when we were listening to the Mahanarayaniya Upanishad also, U.G. said similar things: "Those sages are
ordinary aspirants; they are not wise men. Just like college professors, [they] debate with their pupils and teach them
philosophy. Or, like today's scientists, they make speculations about the origins of the universe. That's all you see in them
[the mantras]." But things were more interesting when we heard the Rudrakrama. U.G. said, "The sounds of the mantras
you have been reciting have been producing divisions in this undivided consciousness." Satyanarayana responded to this
saying that was the right effect: "The rishis all gathered together and recited the Rudra Krama with the intention of
bringing Rudra, who was united with the unlimited consciousness, to their level. They created Rudram, Namakam and
Chamakam -- all three with the same intention. Thus there came about a division in the one Lord, He became a family
man and caused the birth of Kumaraswami," he said.
Then U.G. said,
The spine [spinal chord] is a very important part of the body. Most of the experiences we go through, our feelings and

thoughts, have a basis in the spine. The spine takes care of them before it lets them reach the brain. Once, when I was
listening to the Veda, my spine felt like it suddenly sprung up and stretched about three feet higher than my head....
Maybe because the movement of energy also took the form of circles, the Yogis talked about chakras. The energy of
consciousness coils around like a snake, rises upward swiftly and goes out of the head. But the experience is never one of
it descending; but always of spiraling upwards. All these are experienced only when I listen to the Vedic mantras, not
when I listen to music or some other sound. What is the use of such experiences? None. From listening to the Vedic
mantras and Upanishads divisions arise in that consciousness.
It is clear that it is by [listening to] the recitation of the same Rks [hymns], which all the sages recited with the aim of
attaining the undivided consciousness, that divisions occur in the undivided consciousness of U.G.
U.G. says,
This has no use for me either. It's not of any use to you at all. Three quarters of those Upanishads are [reflections] of the
lamentations of those sages for that undivided state. Those were the verses. The remaining one quarter were descriptions
of that state saying, "It is like that, it is like this." In some places, in some remote corner, we hear the essential truth,
viz., "Whatever you do, you won't get it."
They say that by reciting the Upanishads, the nervous system will be purified. But no one has explained what that
purification means. Even less, is there someone who can guarantee it? If we accept claims of this sort, orthodox people
will force us, will provide sacred meanings to threads, tufts of hair and shaven heads. They will justify them, will rub
ashes on us and make sit among the Bairagis [spiritual mendicants]. As if that's not enough, they even burn the incense of
science to get us more intoxicated [with tradition].
Because U.G. is an arch enemy of such superstitions, he has been able to avoid the many strategies devised by the
followers of his religion to fit him in their orthodox framework. U.G. says emphatically that no one can attain any higher
state by merely reciting the Upanishads, or by contemplating, digesting and assimilating the truth in them. He says,
"Those sages too know that. That's why they claim that all will eventually burn down and turn into ashes and they pray,
"Tryambakam yajamahe [I worship Tryambaka]."
17
He did not utter a sentence to comfort her....

That was Friday, October 13, 1995 -- the day after U.G.'s arrival. We just received the bad news at 11 a.m. that Pramila
[Suguna's niece] died. She was in the hospital in Madras for a month, suffering from cancer. I and Suguna went to see her a
week ago. Meanwhile, this horrible news. Suguna couldn't bear to hear the news. Everyone in the Poornakutee was sorrow-
stricken with the news of Pramila's death. "If you like, you and Suguna go [to Madras]," said U.G. We all decided to go with
U.G. to Madras on the 15th and from there go to Kalpakam. That evening, U.G. took Suguna with him to the Bazaar with
the pretext of buying something. We were out for about an hour. While I and the Major were going around the shops,
Suguna was talking to U.G. about Pramila and her life. Apparently, U.G. listened quietly to what Suguna had to say,
without himself saying anything. "Poor Shyamalamma [Suguna's elder sister] is in trouble," U.G. apparently said during the
conversation. By talking to U.G. Suguna felt quite a bit relieved from her sorrow. I thought it was a great solace to have
U.G. around us at times like this. He didn't have to comfort us with so many words. The awareness that he was there,
sharing our sorrow, was enough to relieve our suffering.
I remember another incident, similar to this, from seven years ago. Sailaja's [an acquaintance of U.G., a school teacher
and the daughter of the postmaster] brother, Papanna, lost his mind, while struggling with hypnotism, when he was
studying for his B.A. in Psychology. There were times when he wouldn't leave the company of U.G. Once he suddenly
disappeared from his home. About a month later his parents came to know that he died in some remote village with no
one around to care for him. That year when U.G. came, I told him casually about the young man's death. U.G. said, at
once, "Let's go and visit Sailaja's mother and see how she is doing." I knew how much U.G. liked that family. Still, I was
surprised at U.G.'s readiness to go and visit them. That morning we went to Vagiswara Sastri's home in Tyagarayanagar. As
soon as she saw U.G. at the door, she rushed out of the kitchen to receive him. She was about sixty years of age at that
time. She was born and grew up in a middle class family and she had a huge family. It was a family of great musicians. She
compiled thousands of folk songs she had learned from her grandmother in a Kannada volume called Sampradaya
Hadugallu [Traditional Songs], for which she got an award from the Sahitya Akademi.
She was for a moment overwhelmed with the excitement of seeing U.G. unexpectedly at her doorstep. "Alas, if Papanna
[her dead son] were alive today, how he would have been pleased to see you visiting us in our home!" her eyes were filled
with tears. She related all the events from the time before Papanna ran away from home till the end of his life.
[Apparently, Papanna told his mother that he had exactly the same sort of experiences as U.G. had. When she admonished
him saying, "You crazy boy! Don't mind all those things. You just returned from the lunatic asylum. Don't compare what
you have experienced with U.G.'s experiences." With that he stopped talking to his mother.]

She would contain her crying at times, and at other times cry out loud. She thus poured out all her maternal sorrow in
U.G.'s presence. U.G. listened with full attention to all she had to say for an hour and a half. He didn't say a word to
interrupt her, and did not utter a sentence to comfort her. All the time he sat like a statue. I must have said a couple of
things to console her.
After she calmed down, U.G. got up to go saying, "Shall we go now?" as though he finished his business for which he had
come. No matter how much she pressed him, U.G. turned down offers of food and drink.
"I blurted out something all this time. After I told you of all my sorrow, I feel relieved," she said wiping her tears off. U.G.
didn't reply.
"Let's go now," he said and walked out.
It seemed as if U.G. removed all the mother's suffering as though he cast a spell on her.
***
18
Childhood memories
Rajasekhara Reddy brought with him from Hyderabad the manuscript of his philosophy of U.G. He stayed in a hotel for a
week and came to U.G.'s place to read everyday from his book. He read almost the whole of it. He had a special style. He
made a study of all the events of U.G.'s life, and even created certain imaginary characters in the biography. He wrote the
book in the fashion of a novel, with dramatizations.
While listening to the reading, U.G. recalled many events of his childhood. He never did like like to let people serve him.
He wouldn't even let his servants do errands for him. He always had thought, "Why do I need these servants? Why can't I do
things for myself?" He always found it strange that a man had to serve another man. He could not understand the
hierarchical differences among men. He could not tolerate it when his grandmother fed him meals with firm yogurt and
cream while she gave leftover food to the servants. He used to insist on eating with the servants and eating the same food
as they ate. A servant used to sit on the verandah in the burning heat of the summer and draw a fan with a rope attached
to it, so his grandfather could have his siesta in the cool breeze provided by that fan [made of vatti roots]. U.G. would sit
by the servant's side and chat with him. Although there were a number of servants in the household, U.G. would wash his

own clothes and do his own chores. Sometimes, his grandmother would be vexed with his behavior and remark, "It's as
though the chief raised a dog as big as a horse, and yet when burglars came, the chief himself did the barking [a proverb
in Telugu]."
At one time, U.G. gave away all his books to his fellow students at school. And there is no count of the pens and pencils he
gave away. On his grandfather's account he bought copies of the Oxford Pocket Dictionary, shoes and textbooks and gave
them away. At the end of the month, the owner of the store sent his grandfather a bill for the amount of the purchases.
U.G.'s grandfather was shocked. Why did U.G. buy so many books and so many dictionaries? Why so many pairs of shoes for
just his two feet? When he questioned U.G., U.G. revealed the truth of the matter. His grandfather then cancelled his
account in the store. Then when he gave money to U.G. to pay for the school fees, U.G., instead, paid the fees of his poor
friends with that money. When the school authorities reported to his grandfather, threatening to remove U.G.'s name from
the school's rolls, his grandfather came to know of his grandson's generous deeds.
How did U.G. acquire such a tendency of sharing with his fellows what he had? Had he absorbed the communist mentality
ever since his childhood, or had he absorbed the Vedanta philosophy that all living beings are one? U.G. says that it was
none of that: "I could not understand why differences existed and how they came about. How did I happen to have so
many things, beyond my need? How did I accumulate them?" It seems as if that questioning eventually led him to a state
where he would not tolerate division even in his consciousness.
***
"I used to do astral travel, too....
When Rajasekhara Reddy was reading out his book that day, U.G. revealed some other details about himself. When `astral
travel' of J. Krishnamurti was mentioned in the reading, U.G. said, "I used to do astral travel, too. There was nothing so
special about it." We were astounded. When? Where did he go? "Not just to the library of the Masters. When I was living in
Madras, I could not find the right quotations that I needed for my talks. I used to lie down to sleep while thinking about
them. In my dream it felt like I was going on astral travel. I used to go to the Connemera Library, take out a book I
needed, and make a note of the quotations from it. Then, like a bird, I would fly back and land on the ground like an
airplane. I would remember the notes very clearly. I would use them the next day in my speech," said U.G., as if that was
a common occurrence.

***
Two acres and freedom....
In his youth U.G. read a book called Two Acres and Freedom. He didn't remember the story of the book, but he
remembered coming to the conclusion that there was no higher heaven than owning a couple of acres of land. He asked
his grandfather to give him two acres of land. His grandfather smiling at his innocence said, "You fool. Why do you ask for
two acres, when you have in your name forty acres of land?" and sent him off.
***
The getup is nice....
The book written on U.G. by the editor of Kannada Prabha, YNK, called U.G. Alla Guruji, was published in October, 1995.
That book, along with three others, was released on the 22nd in the Gokhale Institute of Public Affairs by the former High
Court Justice and senior savant, Honorable Nitturu Srinivasa Rao. He had spoken with U.G. many years ago. On the
occasion of the release, he pointed the book to everyone in the assembly and said, "You need great courage to read this
book. You need greater courage to meet and talk to this gentleman called U.G. Krishnamurti." A Kannada litterateur of the
name Lakshmi Narayana Bhatta, as well as the head of the Psychology Department in Bangalore University, Prof.
Timmappa, both spoke to the assembly introducing U.G. Timmappa described that as naturally as a caterpillar would be
metamorphosed into a butterfly, U.G. too went through a bodily transformation and attained divinity. He explained that
such transformation is acausal, and explained why U.G. emphasizes that it is useless to search for a way to attain it.
I showed U.G. the book written by YNK. U.G. held the book in his hand, looked at the back cover and returned it saying,
"The get-up is nice." He didn't show the slightest interest in finding out what the author wrote in the book.
***
The body is like an animal....
It was Tuesday, October 24, 1995. A day of total solar eclipse. For a week before that day, newspapers, radio and TV -- all

talked about the eclipse, and made a big hoopla about it saying that something remarkable was going to happen on the
earth for the first time.
On February 16, 1980, it had also been a total solar eclipse, and U.G. had been in Bombay. That day, the sun became
eclipsed in the shadow of the moon, and the day became dark. U.G. noticed that the sex glands in his body became active
and energetic. He commented on the phenomenon to Mahesh who was standing with him in the balcony, "I have such a
strong sexual desire that I could rape any woman that comes into my sight. If you wish, touch my organ." Mahesh
hesitantly looked for it and the organ was stiff and erect. Mahesh was shocked. The next day, while the newspapers
catalogued the effects of the eclipse, they mentioned how during the time of the total eclipse all the animals in the zoo
had started copulating freely. "There is no difference between me and the animals. The body is like an animal. That may
be why the sexual instinct was so active yesterday," said U.G.
It was revealed in the papers that this time, the total eclipse could only be observed in northern India. It was to start at
7:45 a.m. and last for an hour and a half. About 32 groups of scientists from different countries came to India and set up
their instruments in order to make various researches on the corona of the sun for the one minute at the time of the
eclipse that it would be visible. U.G. had no sympathy for all the exercises of these scientists. He said, "All this hoopla is a
waste. What do they know? They are fools.... Man, who supposedly has achieved so much progress in the scientific field,
cannot even predict precisely when an earthquake is going to occur. How can he know of the astronomical secrets
occurring millions of miles away?" he argued. U.G. gets irritated with scientists who, in spite of their ignorance, claim that
they know everything. "There is not the slightest difference between their theories and the superstitious beliefs of my
grandmother. The contemporary astronomer's theories are just as ridiculous as the belief that Rahu [a dragon] swallowed
the Sun, and the Sun emerged out of the throat of Rahu," he said. "Science supplies the technological know-how to the
world. Our lives became easier and more comfortable because of it. Because of our faith in that technology, we believe
implicitly whatever gains currency in the name of science. In fact, none of those theories are true; they are mere
speculations," said U.G.
On the morning of the eclipse, U.G. took his bath after the eclipse had started. He ate his breakfast of idlis before the
eclipse. He made us all eat idlis, too, saying, "Nothing will happen. Don't believe all the warnings and advice of the
scientists published in the newspapers."
***

"How did I come into this world?"....
After Brahmachariji, Vedantam Satyanarayana is the gentleman who became the target of U.G.'s teasing on this trip
[1995]. U.G. cut him off with his replies whenever Satyanarayana opened his mouth. The day before U.G. was leaving,
Satyanarayana pleaded, "You are leaving without giving us anything...."
"Maybe I am not leaving anything for you. But what about you? You made sure that there is no one left behind to leave
anything for. If you have had no children, in all these years, it must be that there is some defect in both of you.
Nevertheless, you have accumulated property and hoarded money. For whom is that? And then, you talk about release and
liberation?" Vedantam's head dropped.
Another question came out of Vedantam after a while: "How did I come into this world, U.G.?"
"Your father and mother went to bed together, performed some unmentionable act and produced you," U.G. replied. That
silenced Vedantam. Decency prevents me from mentioning the name of that unmentionable deed, but U.G. says that
without any hesitation. He looks around at everyone who gathered there that day and asks, "Why do you all crowd here?
You just come here to spend your time. You can't watch dirty movies sitting in your own house. So, you come here for your
entertainment. My going along with you and talking to you, answering your useless questions, only amounts to encouraging
you. I know that my words are of no use to anyone. What should I do? Should I throw stones at you? Should I call the police
and not let you in?" He then got up and said, "Don't come here tomorrow. I won't be here. I will have to go for shopping in
the Commercial Street."
***
The four aims of life....
The interpretation which U.G. gave for the four Aims of Life [Purusharthas, addressing Brahmachariji: "Of the dharma
[moral action], artha [monetary gain], kama [sensual desire] and moksha [release], the first and the last are plain lies. In
the remaining, there is no use thinking about the second in old age. The only thing that remains is money. That's
important for living. Try to practice that. That's the only aim of life."
***

"All my ambitions have crumbled" -- Vinod
That morning of October 30, 1995. U.G. was sitting in the hall downstairs in Poornakutee. The hall was packed with
friends: there was no room even to walk through. U.G. was sitting on the sofa next to the T.V., as usual, holding his head
in his hands. People kept coming in. The ones that were sitting were making room for the newcomers. The Major said,
getting up to go, "I am going upstairs; one of you can sit here." U.G. looked up at him once, but didn't say anything. Then
another young man peeped into the hall from the doorway, "My name is Vinod. I phoned you earlier," he said to me aside.
Then I suddenly remembered: he came from Hubli ten days ago and asked me the previous night at 10:30 on the phone if
he could come to see U.G. Early next morning U.G. was leaving for Madras. Hearing this, the young man was disappointed.
After he made sure that U.G. has arrived, he came today to Bangalore and phoned. "Come in, come in Vinod," I said. He
didn't quite know how to come in from the door or make room for himself. After he tried some, he finally sat down in a
small rattan chair near the door.
He picked up some unknown courage as soon as U.G. smiled at him. All his shyness disappeared from his face in the matter
of a moment. He didn't notice anyone else in the room besides U.G. He looked into U.G.'s face, and got immersed in U.G.'s
words forgetting where he was, and where he was sitting. He said he had read U.G.'s books in the Hubli public library. He
had an M.A. or an M.Sc. degree.
"I had ambitions of doing many things in life: I wanted to become an important officer by passing the IAS [Indian
Administrative Service]. After reading your books, all my enthusiasm has gone. All my ambitions have crumbled. Only
despair and hopelessness have remained. Just eating, drinking and living. You are the reason why I have become like this,"
said the young man. Everyone laughed.
U.G. laughed, too, and said, "What did I do? I too hope that you would pass the IAS and become an important official.
Don't read my books and don't come to me. You forget about everything and live happily." The young man said that was
not possible any more.
He pulled out a copy of the Mystique he had just bought and said, "I just bought this book today. Please autograph it."
"Why did you waste your money buying that book? The book is not even useful to boil water to make coffee," said U.G.
"I didn't spend one hundred and twenty five rupees to boil water. You must sign this book," the boy said, getting up. "
"I don't know how to sign my name. I am an illiterate," said U.G. trying to avoid him. "I don't believe it. What's your

problem? What will you lose by signing on this book?" Vinod insisted. Everyone was watching this amusement and laughing
at their argument.
Finally, U.G. took the book and the pen and asked, "Tell me your name." As soon as he told his name, U.G. wrote it in big
letters on the first page of the book.
Noticing that, Vinod started again, "Not my name, yours."
No matter how much U.G. tried to avoid signing the book, Vinod kept insisting. I tried to tell him that U.G. never puts his
autograph in anyone's book, and begged him not to insist. We were all astonished at his aggressiveness. He held U.G.'s
hand by sitting next to him and made him write `U.G.' by leading his hand. Then he bent down to pick up the pen that
slipped and fell. U.G. thought that perhaps he was going to touch his feet and folded his legs into the sofa, admonishing
him, "Hey, don't do such things!"
Then Vinod realized. "By mentioning that, you gave me the idea. I must touch your feet," he said trying to reach U.G.'s
feet. He asked U.G., "Why do I have so much self-forgetfulness when I see you?"
U.G. replied, "Forget all that. Just go and do your IAS examinations." Vinod thus spent an hour and half with U.G. and left
very reluctantly. He left making U.G. promise that he would let him see him again next February.
***
"My touch will multiply life...."
U.G. tries to keep himself away from people who want to get physically very close to him. Day in and day out, he takes
care not to give any opportunity to people who come to see him either to touch his feet or to fall on him by forgetting
themselves in their passion of devotion. Notwithstanding this, there have been occasions, although they have been rare,
when some people caught in the intoxication of U.G.'s personal magnetism have forgotten themselves, and created
problems for him. For instance, Jitendra Reshamwala, every time he saw U.G., no matter how much U.G. would try to
stop him or prevent him, even try to run away to keep himself beyond reach, wouldn't let go of U.G. without hugging him
with both his arms and showering his cheeks with kisses. He wouldn't stop with that. He would hold U.G.'s hands and squat
down on the floor near U.G.'s feet. It is not by virtue of his age that he gained such liberty with U.G. He was no older than
U.G. He was probably a bit over sixty years. When he came five years ago to see U.G. for the first time, he was renowned
as a guru only among his Gujarati devotee groups in Hyderabad. In course of time, his fame spread not only in the rest of
this country, but also abroad, and earned him many disciples. Although he has been struck with blood cancer for the last

six years, he always looked jubilant like a young boy. Everyone addressed him as `Baba,' and he addressed everyone else
as `Baba'. "I am still alive only because of U.G. Baba, or else the cancer would have got me a long time ago," he used to
say.
That day, on October 29, I told U.G. that Jitendra Baba was on the phone. Jitendera would never hesitate to travel from
Hyderabad to Bangalore. He had to see U.G., touch him and kiss him -- that was his only life-aim. "Where is my U.G.
Baba?" he was asking me on the phone. U.G. was signing to me as if not to tell him.
"You want me to tell you the truth, Baba?" I asked.
He laughed loudly on the other end: "I know, U.G. Baba doesn't want you to tell me. He is afraid that I will come to
Bangalore again. Tell him that I want to talk to him once." U.G. picked up the phone. I was listening to their conversation
from another phone. "U.G. Baba, I would like to come and stay in your London flat," he said.
"You are most welcome. But I will be away. If you want, you can stay there alone," said U.G. abruptly.
Jitendra laughed aloud: "Baba, it's just your love for me that is keeping me alive. The cancer has become stable at a
certain stage. Although the condition is not improving, it has not deteriorated," he said.
U.G. replied, "It is not because of my love. If it is from my love, it would have sent you to the grave by now. Cancer means
living cells spreading without limit. And my touch will multiply their life and energy. It won't try to stop their spread and
extend your life." I didn't feel like listening to their conversation anymore.
***
Final message: "Drop dead...."
Vedantam was asking U.G., "What is your final message?" He was the last one to leave the hall.
U.G. replied emphasizing every syllable, "Drop dead!"
***
"If Einstein were here right now, I could shut him up in one minute...."
"Chandrasekhar, please come here," called U.G. leaning against the parapet wall on the terrace. I approached him quickly
wondering what he might show me. U.G.'s attention was on the road. The branches of Valentine's tree spread widely

above us like an open umbrella. "Can you see the space between those branches and the vehicles passing on the road?"
asked U.G.
"Yes, why not? No matter how bent the branches are, the eyes can see the space between them and the road behind
them," I replied.
"I cannot. All that seems like a two dimensional picture to me. My eyes can see everything in front, one thing after
another, but they cannot see the space among them. There are no measurements such as length and breadth, let alone
depth. I maintain that the physical eye cannot see the third dimension. Our minds interpret what we see as the third
dimension, but the eyes don't tell us that there is space. When the present-day scientists talk about the fourth dimension
on top of the three dimensions, I feel like breaking their teeth. Where is that fourth dimension? I say that even the third
dimension is a lie. If Einstein were here right now, I could shut him up in one minute," U.G. said. With that my mouth
closed shut.
***
"If the house has cobras, it's even more acceptable...."
This time after his arrival in Bangalore [1996], U.G. became keen on looking for a farm house. The house had to be located
on the outskirts of the city. There had to be a garden around the house. In the garden, there had to be a big tree, so that
the Major could climb and sit on it. The house must, however, not be located within the city corporation limits. These
were the prime qualifications for U.G. to move into a house. If there were cobras moving in or around the house, it was
even more acceptable. Of course, nothing was more desirable that a house inhabited by ghosts or spirits. However, U.G.'s
friends who were helping him hunt for a farmhouse couldn't quite understand what U. G. and the Major would do in a
haunted house of that sort. Once every couple of days they would take him around and show him a different house. The
house shown by Radhakishan qualified in every way except for the fact that there was a chicken coop next to it. The many
`cocka-doodle-doo' sounds and the fragrance of the chickens prevented any possibility of our ears and eyes going on a
strike in that house.
***
Either you kill me or I'll kill you" -- Hanif

When we were in the middle of this house-hunting effort, one afternoon the telephone rang: The voice was of some
stranger. "Whom do you want to talk to?" I asked.
"I need to talk to U.G. When can I do that?" someone asked in clear English.
"What's your name?" I asked mechanically, without knowing what to say.
"Hanif Mohammed," he said.
"You are the same Hanif who is study Engineering?" I asked, wondering if he was one of the group of young men who once
came to see U.G.
"No, no. I am a drop-out," he replied in a low voice. He repeated his request, "I need to talk to U.G. very much. When can
I do that?" I asked him to come around 6:30 that evening. I did not notice him when he came in that evening and sat
among the group. I didn't know him and he never met me. Around 8 O'clock in the evening, U.G. said he was closing shop
and was asking everyone to leave. The `customers' who had spent a couple of hours there were moving close to the steps
reluctantly. When U.G. was about to go into his room, that young man was murmuring something to himself looking at
U.G. U.G. at once stopped and looked at him intently. The young man said, "I must talk to you alone for a little while."
Then I figured that he was the one who talked to me on the phone. U.G. at once asked everyone to go downstairs. We
were all surprised at U.G.'s complying with the stranger's request, as U.G. normally does not create such an opportunity
even to those who know him well.
After about 15 minutes Hanif climbed down the stairs with faltering steps, looked at me, said "Goodbye," in a weak voice
and left. He looked as though if someone had stirred him a bit he would have poured himself out. He was trembling from
head to foot. We didn't know what transpired until U.G. came and told us about it.
"He moved close to me, and showing the knife he wore around his waist, he said, 'Either you kill me or I will kill you. I
can't go on living like this.' Then he started crying," said U.G. unperturbed. I had a shock of my lifetime listening to the
story. I felt: "What would have happened if that crazy fellow did something ghastly?"
"How did you calm him down?"
"I didn't. I told him, `Why should I kill you? You kill me. I am always ready.' With that he calmed down," said U.G. "I then
told him, 'If I die, it's no loss to anybody. If you kill me, however, they will put you in jail. But I will write a letter so that
the police won't bother you.'" U.G. concluded.
Incidents of this sort are not unusual to U.G., but when we listen to him, we feel as if we are going on a roller coaster. Is

it the absence of any urge in U.G. to protect himself that really acts as an armor for him? We don't know. Whatever it may
be, why is it that some people behave in that way with U.G.? We can understand their helplessness to some extent. When
the very ground which they have trusted and stood upon crumbles under their feet, some cannot bear it and act as if they
have gone crazy. U.G. does whatever it is that he does, and puts on an innocent face. That makes these people even more
infuriated, and they feel like pulling their hair. They feel like drawing their swords at him, not being able to stand this
ruthless compassion. Hanif's beliefs had been destroyed by U.G.'s books. His elders had been trying to force him to fast for
Ramadan. When he refused, they said that he was possessed by a demon. Then they tried to confine him forcibly, at which
point he ran away from them.
The way Hanif smiled at me upon leaving told me how many volcanoes had exploded in his heart. I understood how many
heavy burdens were disturbing him so that he couldn't 't stay calm. There was a conflict between the commandments of
his elders, who were hardened with religious zeal, and the human values aroused within him by U.G.'s words. All this was
reflected in that feeble smile he smiled.
***
"I tried to skip my own wedding...."
"You must come to our wedding tomorrow," Rangarajan invited U.G., saluting him with folded hands. By his side stood his
prospective wife, Vijayalakshmi, standing in a curved posture and watching him innocently. She covered herself around
her shoulders with her sari, and had her arms crossed. She was looking into U.G.'s face. What could U.G. say in reply?
He laughed: "I tried to skip attending my own wedding," Rangarajan too laughed at this.
"How is that possible, Sir, how could you have your own wedding without yourself being there?"
"To some sword, or as Rama did when he put a statue of Sita next to himself when he performed a sacrifice, I asked them
to perform the wedding ceremony with only my picture there. But that didn't work. I didn't even attend my own children's
weddings," U.G. said.
***
"What good is it to have all those lines?"....

After a while, Rangarajan said that his wife knew palmistry. That was it! U.G. immediately sat up and made room for her
on the sofa, holding out his palm, "Come, come, look at my palm," he said, inviting her. The young lady hesitantly sat on
the sofa and held U.G.'s palm. "I don't know much. I taught myself by reading Cheiro's books and some other palmistry
books in Telugu," she said and proceeded to study U.G.'s palm. "They say that if the heart line goes into the mount of
Jupiter, one lives for a hundred years. Looking at the lines in your palm, we could say you will live for ten years beyond
hundred," she said. She pointed to the line which took off of the life line into the index finger and said, "The science of
palmistry says that if a line goes from the Mount of Jupiter and touches the index finger, that means the individual is a
great person. And if it goes further up into the index finger, we can definitely say that the person is superior to Jnanis and
Yogis."
I thought at first she was a mere amateur in palmistry. But I was amazed at her analysis of the lines in U.G.'s palm, one
after the other. "There are lotus lines in this gentleman's palm; also a fish line," she said suddenly. We all looked into
U.G.'s palm with curiosity. Meanwhile, Vijayalakshmi traced all the lotus lines on U.G.'s palm. We were awestruck: there
was an outline of an eight-petaled lotus and at the center of which there was another small lotus. As if that wasn't
enough, she looked for other lotus lines and traced them all and filled the palm with them. "There is also a Swastika mark
here," said she, pointing to the Venus Mount. "What good is it to have all those lines?" asked U.G.
***
"Didn't you say my vibrations were horrible?"
Professor Gottfried Meyer and his wife Bodyl from Germany, were now residing in the North Wing of the cottage in
Yercaud. It was February 1996. They came to Yercaud after traveling in the North of India for some days. U.G. the Major,
Suguna and I were staying in the South Wing. U.G. took his previous room. In U.G.'s absence, the Major had been sleeping
in that room for the past year. "I liked that room. It had good vibrations," U.G. said later to the Major on the way from
Salem. Major shook his head as if he didn't believe U.G. and said, "Don't say that. Didn't you remark only the other day in
Madras that my vibrations were horrible?"
Mr. Malladi Krishnamurti built a special room for U.G. on the second floor of his house. The Major apparently slept in that
room for five days, spreading his bed on the carpet. No one had told U.G. about this. Nevertheless, when U.G. entered the
room this time, he asked the Major, "Have you been sleeping here?" The Major was surprised. When he asked how U.G. had

known that he was, U.G. replied, "Don't I know your vibrations?" Then the Major asked him curiously, "Were they good or
bad?" "If they were good, there would be no need to talk about them," remarked U.G. sharply. "You know I don't say
anything to please you. This time your vibrations here [in Yercaud] were truly pleasant," said U.G. smiling.
***
You also feel the 'vibes' of the place....
No matter how convincingly he speaks, it is hard to tell whether U.G. is making fun of you or truly appreciating you.
Especially this vibrations business -- I haven't been able to make head or tail out of it, although I have been observing it
for the last twenty five years. What indeed are these `vibes'? Do they really bother him? U.G. says that just as you feel the
humidity in the air or changes in the weather, you also feel the vibes in a place. What can you do even if you know the
weather is bad? It's the same with vibes too. The fears and anxieties, the emotions and passions of the people who lived in
a place before us, stay on in the surroundings like clouds. But why don't they bother everyone else? The others don't even
know that they exist. When we talk about this matter seriously, U.G. says that the reason why they don't touch us is the
armor of thought that we wear around ourselves shields us from them. He says that we never live in the present. We are
always filled with either things that had already happened or things that might happen in the future. Is that why we are
blind to all the subtle vibrations that surround us? If we somehow could break that thought armor, then could we
understand all these things? U.G. ridicules us saying, "If only the thing called `you' exists." The thought armor is our
existence. There is no separate thing called the `I' anywhere. This thought armor is the Emperor's Clothing that we weave
around ourselves to protect our illusory existence. My God! I am going out of my mind! Do you understand all this? Don't
ask me [if I do].
***
Because you drank the coffee, your ancestors are gratified....
I am reminded of another incident narrated to me by Vedantam Satyanarayana. This happened about two years ago. It was
the death anniversary of his father. When he heard that U.G. arrived in Bangalore from Yercaud, he felt strongly that he
had to go visit and talk to him. Because of the anniversary ceremony, he was fasting [until the priests finished the ritual

and were fed]. If he came to our house, Suguna would give him coffee without fail, and he would have to break his fast!
He wondered what to do. So, he came to our house anyway, thinking that he would let U.G. decide what he should do.
As soon as he came, U.G. started making fun of Brahmachariji. "Yesterday was his mother's death anniversary. Without
going to his home, he has been hanging around here. He quit his funerals and daily worship. Brahmachariji has become
blasphemous," U.G. was saying.
During the conversation Suguna brought some coffee. Vedantam said, "It's my father's death anniversary. I cannot eat or
drink anything."
But U.G. insisted, "Don't worry about it. I am telling you. Go ahead and drink it." Vedantam emptied the coffee cup
without a second thought. The conversation continued for another forty five minutes. In the middle of the conversation,
U.G. suddenly turned to Vedantam and said with a serious face, "Sir, because you drank the coffee, your father, your
grandfather and his father -- all three of them are gratified. They are completely happy." Vedantam couldn't believe his
ears. He automatically got up, saluted U.G. with folded hands and wiped his tears off without anyone noticing. Vedantam
believed without a doubt that all his three ancestors appeared in their subtle bodies to U.G.
There have been many such incidents. If I write about all of them, this will be a huge volume. U.G. scorns me by saying,
"Chandrasekhar is writing a Myth about all the miracles I have never performed."
***
All sounds are the same....
It was February 15, 1996 -- the eleventh day of the lunar month. I got up early in the morning, finished washing and was
sipping coffee sitting in a chair on the verandah. The noise of the fan of the heater inside was reminding me of the sound
of `Om'. The Major was on the floor doing the exercises which his brother prescribed for him for his backache. Suguna had
not gotten up yet. It was quiet all around. The occasional cries of a crow from the trees or bushes in the valley could be
heard breaking through the silence of the morning. When I was telling myself how peaceful it was there, I recalled the
conversation I had with U.G. the day before. I had asked him then in the verandah, "Don't you feel like living in a peaceful
place like this, away from the city noises like in Madras or Bangalore?"
"You think it is city noise. It's all the same to me whether I am here or there. I don't find any difference," replied U.G.
"How about the noise of the vehicles passing in the city ...."

Even before I had finished my sentence, U.G. interrupted: "All that is your imagination. All sounds are the same. You like
to avoid some of them, calling them noise. All of them are the same for the body."
"Then there is no truth in the doctors' opinion that if sounds are too harsh or loud they have a [detrimental] effect on the
body's nervous system?"
"What do the scientists know? They won't be able to know the nature of the body's intelligence even in another hundred
years. I have been saying this for twenty five years now -- that the importance of the brain in the human body is minimal.
They are realizing that just recently in their experiments. They wrote in the New York Times that the scientists found out
that the intelligence necessary for the digestive system exists in the stomach itself. That's why I have been saying for so
long that the food you eat is not important for the body; that Yoga, health food or whatever you think is useful for the
body are in fact harmful for it. You eat not food but ideas. What you wear are not clothes, but labels and names," said
U.G., emphasizing each syllable.
***
"I am only speaking from a practical point of view...."
The couple who were the caretakers said goodbye to U.G. saying "U.G. da kadavul [U.G. is God]." Ever since U.G. had
started renting this cottage in Yercaud, in all these four years, their family has improved quite a bit. The Major had been
watching out for their needs and helping them monetarily, even more than U.G. had been.
U.G. had not given a penny for the marriage of Nagaratna's son. However, he had given enough money for the couple's cot
and bed. Before six months were over, the daughter-in-law became pregnant. U.G. tried to persuade her, "Why do you
need children? How are you going to raise them? Get an abortion. I will pay for it."
When Suguna saw U.G. giving her money, she couldn't help herself laughing. "Why shouldn't there be children, once they
have been married? Besides, this is her first pregnancy. Why would she get an abortion?" asked Suguna.
The Major, too, could not understand why U.G. was asking her to get an abortion. He asked U.G., "Are you trying to
prevent the birth of a deformed child? Why do you say she shouldn't have the child?"
"Not that, how should I know any of that? I am only saying this from a practical point of view. Economically, it's a big
burden to give birth to and raise a child. I am only asking why you should give birth to a child if you cannot bear the
expense," explained U.G. I felt that this truly was a matter everyone should think about. If we don't try to excuse

ourselves by saying, "Could the tree be a burden to the mountain? Could the berry be a burden to the vine?", then we
cannot but see the practicality in U.G.'s words.
U.G. was also insistent in a similar fashion once in Suguna's case: Our second daughter was more than a year old. U.G.
came to know that Suguna missed her period again. I don't know how he gets to know about such things. There were times
when he could tell that a woman was pregnant even when the woman herself didn't know that she had been missing her
period. "That's all part of the body language: I can tell as soon as I see the person's face," says U.G., but I can't believe it.
Whatever it is, ever since he came to know of Suguna's pregnancy, whenever an occasion arose, he kept dinning into my
ears to get an abortion for Suguna. "Please listen to me. To play with and have fun you have two daughters. That's enough.
Why do you need a third child? Don't you know in how many ways you have to face financial difficulties if you give birth to
more children?" he tried to persuade me. But, Suguna longed for a male child. She hoped that this time around she would
have a son. U.G.'s counter-question was, "What will you do if you will only give birth to a baby girl this time again?" He
said, "Why do you need sons? Your two daughters will bring two sons-in-law. What else do you need?"
One day U.G. said to me, "May be you are afraid that you will get into hell [called Punnama] for not having a son. I
guarantee you: such hells won't afflict you., O.K.? You persuade Suguna and make sure she gets an abortion before it's too
late. Or else, you will regret it later very much." U.G. words did truly frighten me. I knew that unless there was a forcible
reason, U.G. wouldn't insist so much.
Suguna, however, was not in favor of the idea. "Let's see what we will have this time. Later, if we want, I can get a
hysterectomy, so that we won't have any more children."
Two months passed by quickly this way. The day neared when U.G. would leave the country. Before he left, he warned us
both again seriously. Then I decided not to delay the matter any more. I persuaded Suguna to agree to toss a coin. She
should pray to her favorite god and toss a coin. Head or tail, whatever the coin says, we must do that. We shouldn't
hesitate. Suguna agreed to that.
Our elder daughter, Aruna, was four years old. We asked her to flip a rupee coin. I was thinking of U.G. in my mind. "The
child must be aborted," was the verdict. In all three trials, every single time, it was the same verdict. With that Suguna's
agitation subsided. In just a couple of days we did whatever was needed and I felt as if a big burden was lifted off of my
heart.
Many years later, when we were consulting Suguna's astrological chart in Skanda Nadi, there was a mention of this matter
in a certain context. That amazed us. In the Nadi, Parvati asks her son Kumaraswami: "Because of the previous life's merit

of her husband, the native of the chart must have a son in this life. How come you say, then, that she only has two
daughters?" Skanda replied to this, "It's true. But because of the defect stemming from her previous life, even if the native
had a son, the son would have been born short-lived or deformed. But because of divine intervention, the native escaped
such a horrible prospect." Suguna and I sometimes talk about what might have happened to us if U.G. had not thus
insisted. Who else is that divinity except U.G.?
***
19
In Conclusion....
This story has no head or tail. Of what use is it for anyone? Maybe, it's useful to those who are curious to know more
information and details about U.G. It seems unwise to try to understand U.G. any more than that.
In all my twenty-five years of acquaintance with U.G., I have realized that I cannot decipher him as such and such, nor
cast what he says in a specific mold. He slips right through my fingers. Just the moment I think, "I understand it. I have an
idea of what you are saying," I get another flash, I see another facet of him, something which is totally opposed to what I
had previously understood. As I look at him and observe him, just as what he says sinks [into my head], the boundaries I
fixed for myself in my mind keep expanding. "U.G. is so simple that he becomes alarmingly complicated," says
Harindranath Chatopadhyaya in his radio talk reviewing U.G.'s book the Mystique of Enlightenment. U.G. says, "That book
should not be called 'Mystique,' it should be called the Mistake of Enlightenment." "If I have a goal, it is to destroy all the
ideas in my books one by one." When U.G. says this, I begin to understand how U.G. is opposed to any fixed ideas formed
about him.
Yet, when someone, after reading his books, asks U.G., "Didn't you say such and such or do such and such?" I don't know
whether to laugh or cry. We don't need great knowledge or scholarship to understand U.G.'s words. They are not only not
necessary; they are a great obstacle. "To express what I want to say, I only need a vocabulary of two hundred words. Not
even that. I only need one word: 'No, No, No.' Just that word is enough," says this 'No' Master!
***

After reading all this, if you ask me, "What would you say: that U.G. is a great man or that he is an ordinary man?" I would
say that it depends on what you believe. When asked about reincarnation, U.G. says, "There is reincarnation for those who
believe in it, and there is no reincarnation, for those who don't." Just the same way, he is great to those who believe that
he is great. To those who don't, he is an ordinary person. If you ask me, "What is your estimate?" I say that U.G. is an
extraordinary person, a unique man, a riddle that remains unsolved forever. It's difficult to say any more. If you feel like
meeting U.G. after reading this book, by all means do. Not just meet him, talk to him. If possible, go near him and
observe him. You won't know what will happen next. U.G. doesn't know. I know even less.
What the Press and Others Say About U.G. Compiled by K. Chandrasekhar
Feb. 2, 1971
Udayavani
"Breaking away from established thinking ... only solution"....
Reporting on U.G.'s address in the local rotary club: If one could do anything in solving problems or in the d