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The Phone Co-op

The Story of a New Consumer Co-operative for the
21st Century

Business as Mutual Conference

Cambridge, 12 September 2012
Vivian Woodell
Chief Executive, The Phone Co-op




                                                   1
The Phone Co-op’s story
• One of the UK’s fastest-growing and most
  successful consumer co-operatives




                                             2
Why are we all here today?
• Why do people become social entrepreneurs?
• “You didn’t like the world the way you found it so
    you built something different”
•   Like it or not, every business changes the world, for
    better or for worse
•   Yet people are still only learning to see business as
    a vehicle for change
•   We can make a difference



                                                        3
Why a co-operative?
• Entirely stakeholder-focused
• Democratic (one member one vote)
• Spreads ownership widely
• Enables “crowd funding”
• Equitable – (i.e. fair) in the way that benefits are
  distributed
• National and global community of co-operatives
   – Wider support network


                                                         4
Why a co-operative?
• Co-operatives are quite simply the purest form of
    social enterprise
•   No owner/beneficiary conflict
•   Co-operatives are well recognised and trusted
•   Model has been tried and tested for 166 years




                                                      5
What is The Phone Co-op?

•   A telecommunications and internet service provider
•   We supply business customers and home users
•   Fixed line, broadband, mobile, business services
•   23,000 customers, over 9400 members




                                                     6
We are different

•   A consumer co-operative
•   Entirely owned and controlled by its customers
•   Uses traditional UK consumer co-op model
•   Returns a share of its profits to members through a
    dividend based on purchases
•   Supports the development of other co-ops through
    an investment fund



                                                      7
And we’re different in other ways too…


• Operates on behalf of its
    customers to maximise
    buying power
•   Aims to operate in an
    ethical and
    environmentally
    responsible way and to
    promote co-operative
    values



                                         8
Where did the idea come from?
• High phone charges working on international
    projects
•   Looked for an alternative supplier
•   Realised that telephone calls bought and sold as a
    commodity
•   Ideal opportunity for a consumer co-operative




                                                         9
The original concept evolved
• Original idea: Joint-purchasing by NGOs with high
    international bills
•   Later widened to all types of customer
•   We only found out later that there are telecoms co-
    operatives in many other countries




                                                      10
Getting started
• 2 year trial phase
• Built up traffic in spare time acting as an agent
    with two telecoms carriers in order to prove
    concept
•   It was difficult to persuade a carrier to sell
    wholesale to us (nowadays they call us all the time
    trying to sell to us!)
•   Started trading as a service provider in 1998



                                                      11
Turnover Growth
              Turnover




£12,000,000

£10,000,000

 £8,000,000

 £6,000,000

 £4,000,000

 £2,000,000

        £0




                         12
Our industry is contracting




                              13
Profit before Distributions
             Profit Before Distributions




£400,000
£350,000
£300,000
£250,000
£200,000
£150,000
£100,000
 £50,000
      £0
 -£50,000
-£100,000




                                           14
What we did with the profit (2007-8)
• Profit:                        £338,000

•   Dividends to members:        £58,000
•   Co-operative loan fund:      £58,000
•   Share interest to members:   £92,000
•   Taxation:                    £50,000
•   Allocation to reserves:      £80,000



                                            15
Financially strong
• No borrowings
• Cashflow very strong
• Good trading record
• Financed by members not by external investors or
  banks
• Compares favourably with our competitors




                                                 16
Net Assets
                                                 Net Assets




 £4,000,000

 £3,500,000

 £3,000,000

 £2,500,000

 £2,000,000

 £1,500,000

 £1,000,000

  £500,000

        £0
              1998   1999   2000   2001   2002    2003   2004   2005   2006   2007   2008   2009   2010   2011




                                                                                                            17
Who are our customers?

• 20,000 Home users
   – Joining because:
    • they like our approach
    • through affinity schemes
    • through acquisitions




                                 18
Who are our customers?

• 3,000 business users including:
   – Other co-operatives
   – Charities
   – Social enterprises
   – Local authorities
   – Many other businesses
   – Political parties


                                    19
Living our co-operative values
• Starts with promoting our membership
  – Having an active and vibrant democracy draws on our
    members’ energy and enthusiasm for us to do the best we
    can
  – Member ownership and strong member-led governance are
    at the heart of what we are about
  – Our members have encouraged us to have a stronger
    ethical approach




                                                          20
Living our co-operative values
• We publish an ethical policy
     – Our members approved this at the AGM
     – We have an ethical policy committee to oversee it
•   We do lots of things to show our support for other
    co-ops and the wider community
•   Strong environmental policy
•   We report on what we do using the Co-
    operativesUK framework



                                                           21
Environment
• Policy is driven by members
• What gets measured gets managed!
• We report on business travel – 86% by public
    transport
•   We provide free bikes for staff, and pay mileage for
    cycling and walking
•   We also report on emissions from our buildings




                                                       22
Environment (continued)
• We offset what we can’t reduce – includes supplier
    emissions
•   We have launched a Sustainability Fund – each time
    a customer switches to electronic billing, we put
    some of the postage savings into this fund.
     – It is used to improve our environmental performance in
       other ways




                                                           23
Investment in renewables
• We have invested in several co-operatives that
    produce renewable electricity
     – Westmill Windfarm Co-operative (£20,000)
     – Torrs Hydro New Mills (£7,500)
     – Westmill Solar (£20,000)
     – Drumlin (£20,000)
•   We invested in the Energy Prospects Co-operative
     – spreads the risks of getting local renewable electricity
       projects off the ground.



                                                              24
Investment in renewables
• In the last year we’ve invested £450,000 in solar PV
    on 5 sites
•   We’ve formed a joint venture (a co-op), called Co-
    operative Renewables Limited with two other
    organisations
•   CRL installed 4 of the 5 sites for us and has also
    installed 4 sites for Midcounties Co-op.
•   Now looking at other technologies as well



                                                         25
Employee stakeholding
• We are a consumer co-op, but our employees are
    recognised as partners and as a key stakeholder.
    We have:
•   An employee council to act as a forum for
    employees
•   A profit-sharing scheme which pays 11% of profits
    to employees based on hours worked.
•   A sales-related bonus scheme operating across all
    staff
•   11% pension contribution – no employee
    contribution required (invested ethically).

                                                    28
Ethical business
• Ethical purchasing where possible
  – Fairtrade products
  – Recycled and from other co-ops/social
    enterprises
  – We don’t use high pressure techniques
  – Transparent pricing
• Marketing – where we spend money
  – Affinity partners make up the majority
  – We have contributed £600,000 to charities and
    NGOs over the years in revenue-share

                                                    29
Community and co-operative
investment
• Co-operative and Social Economy Development
  Fund
  – In most years the board has recommended the same
      amount as dividend is allocated to this fund each
      year
  –   Total value now over £165,000
  –   Provides loan finance for new and developing co-ops
  –   More recently we have invested in co-op share capital



                                                         30
Why do customers join The Phone
Co-op?
• They like the fact that it’s a co-operative
• Ethical stance
• All about trust - not there to “rip them off”
• Like to support an alternative to privately owned
  businesses
• Good value
• Dividend
• Affinity schemes

                                                      31
Acquisitions
• Main focus is on organic growth, but we have also
    made 10 acquisitions since we started
•   Consolidation in our industry means we need to
    grow fairly quickly
•   Issues:
     – Acquired customers are not people/organisations who
      chose us
    – Potential for higher churn
    – Integration/cultural


                                                             32
Acquisitions (continued)
• In September 2010 – the telecoms business of
    SAGA.
•   Adds around 8,000 customers
•   As part of this deal we have a marketing partnership
    with SAGA under which they promoted our services
    to their 6m customers over 2 years.




                                                      33
Mobile
• We are now an MVNO (Mobile Virtual Network
    Operator)
•   “Phone Co-op” as network name
•   Major area for expansion
•   Currently over 2,000 handsets but growing fast




                                                     34
Major surveys conducted in 2
different years
• 1500-2000 non-business customers received survey
    forms with their bills
•   40% of them returned forms - a very high response
    rate
•   Very high customer satisfaction rates




                                                    35
Reasons customers choose The
Phone Co-op

                              28.3%
                                             24.0%            22.0%
                 30%

                 25%
   Percentages




                 20%
                                                                               9.7%
                 15%
                                                                                               4.0%            2.3%       2.0%
                 10%

                 5%

                 0%
                       more ethical   prefer to buy   low cost calls   simple pricing 0845 number for   receiving     other
                        supplier      from a co-op                                      my incoming     members
                                                                                            calls        dividend             The reasons




                                                                                                                                            36
External Recognition
• Overall winner, Enterprising Solutions Award (Oct
    08) for best Social Enterprise in the UK, 2008
•   Winner, the Green England Award for Customer
    Service, December 2008
•   Winner the Federation of Communications Services
    Green Award, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012
•   Winner Co-operative Excellence Award, for
    reporting to members, June 2009
•   Finalist, National Business Awards, November 2009
•   Honourable mention, dotCoop Global Awards

                                                      37
External Recognition – most recent
• Finalist in Midlands Entrepreneur of the Year
    Award, 2012
•   Winner, in 2011 of the FCS Reseller of the Year
    Award




                                                      38
39
Future growth plans
• The Phone Co-op’s Board wants to see co-
    operative model make a real impact in
    telecommunications, and perhaps more widely
•   Acquisitions – ready for more
•   Growth of the mobile model – potentially
    through new channels
•   We’ve looked at expansion in other European
    countries


                                              40
Challenges/issues we faced
• Started with very little money (£35k) made up of
  loans from members, retained revenue share
  and a loan from ICOF.
   – Had to keep costs low
   – Operated from a spare bedroom for 2 years (it got
      crowded as we grew!)
  –   Took time to develop in embryonic form before it
      became a full-time job



                                                         41
Our financing model
• We are 100% owned by our members
• Members invest in withdrawable share capital
• We tell members if they invest 1-2 months’
    phone bills we won’t require external finance
•   This has been the case since very early on




                                                    42
Share capital growth
                                                Share Capital Growth
£4,000,000

£3,500,000

£3,000,000

£2,500,000

£2,000,000

£1,500,000

£1,000,000

 £500,000

       £0
             1998   1999   2000   2001   2002   2003   2004   2005   2006   2007   2008   2009   2010   2011   2012




                                                                                                                  43
Next steps
• Our co-operative identity has helped us grow
• Customers trust us and we retain them
• We have better customers
     – Low bad debt ratio
•   But we sometimes struggle to get recognised
•   This led us to consider a new approach




                                                  44
Next steps
• We have watched how the Co-operative brand has
    transformed perception of the “traditional” Co-op
•   This brand isn’t just used for food, pharmacy, travel
    and funerals
•   We now have:
     – The Co-operative Legal Services
     – The Co-operative Childcare
     – The Co-operative Energy




                                                       45
The Co-operative brand – the way
ahead for us?
• We carried out extensive research using focus
    groups
•   We found:
     – People hate their telecoms providers
     – They trust The Co-operative brand
     – They have a pretty good idea what a co-op is and stands
      for, and they identify with that
    – They haven’t heard of The Phone Co-op and when they are
      prompted with the name they aren’t sure what we do
    – They understood what “The Co-operative Phone and
      Broadband” would be all about and liked it.

                                                                 46
A difficult decision
• There were many reasons to adopt the brand
• But we also had to consider some risks
  – Would it be hard to communicate that we are an
      independent co-op people could join?
  –   Would it undermine our governance in the long-term?
  –   Would people think we had been taken over?
  –   Would people see us as another non-core offering from a
      supermarket?
  –   Would we be lose our operational independence by
      through over-tight controls we couldn’t live with?


                                                            49
In the end we went for it
• The brand has a very high level of trust
• A great deal has been invested in it (remember the
    Bob Dylan adverts?)
•   Cross-selling opportunities via retail co-op
    societies
•   Size perception will help us to sell to larger
    organisations such as local authorities and larger
    charities



                                                         50
At the heart of the Co-op Movement
• In less than a month, we will be moving our
    Manchester office into Holyoake House, Co-
    operativesUK’s HQ
•   Puts us at the heart of the Co-op Complex in
    Manchester
•   Combined with the new brand, this places us in a
    good position at the core of the Movement, from
    which we can grow



                                                       51
Getting even 
• Since before The Phone Co-op started, I was an
    active board member in the co-op movement
•   A lot of co-op managers at the time saw the co-
    operative identity as a hindrance and had no vision
    for how it could support growth
•   I wanted to prove them wrong
•   Now with the adoption of the brand and the move
    into the heart of the movement, it feels like
    “closure” on that particular battle!

                                                      52
Conclusion
• The success of The Phone Co-op shows how a
    new consumer co-operative can start up in a
    highly competitive area of the economy and can
    build mass membership
•   Consumers are looking for a different model of
    business at a time when trust in established plcs
    is at a very low ebb
•   “We’re doing it ourselves”


                                                    53
Be part of the story!
• We hope you will join The Phone Co-op and help us
    grow
•   You can be part of it!




                                                 54
How to contact The Phone Co-op


•   Contact details:
•   www.thephone.coop
•   Tel 0845 458 9000
•   Fax 0845 458 9001
•   enquiries@thephone.coop (general)
•   Vivian@thephone.coop (Vivian Woodell)

                                            55

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The story of a new consumer co operative for the 21st century

  • 1. The Phone Co-op The Story of a New Consumer Co-operative for the 21st Century Business as Mutual Conference Cambridge, 12 September 2012 Vivian Woodell Chief Executive, The Phone Co-op 1
  • 2. The Phone Co-op’s story • One of the UK’s fastest-growing and most successful consumer co-operatives 2
  • 3. Why are we all here today? • Why do people become social entrepreneurs? • “You didn’t like the world the way you found it so you built something different” • Like it or not, every business changes the world, for better or for worse • Yet people are still only learning to see business as a vehicle for change • We can make a difference 3
  • 4. Why a co-operative? • Entirely stakeholder-focused • Democratic (one member one vote) • Spreads ownership widely • Enables “crowd funding” • Equitable – (i.e. fair) in the way that benefits are distributed • National and global community of co-operatives – Wider support network 4
  • 5. Why a co-operative? • Co-operatives are quite simply the purest form of social enterprise • No owner/beneficiary conflict • Co-operatives are well recognised and trusted • Model has been tried and tested for 166 years 5
  • 6. What is The Phone Co-op? • A telecommunications and internet service provider • We supply business customers and home users • Fixed line, broadband, mobile, business services • 23,000 customers, over 9400 members 6
  • 7. We are different • A consumer co-operative • Entirely owned and controlled by its customers • Uses traditional UK consumer co-op model • Returns a share of its profits to members through a dividend based on purchases • Supports the development of other co-ops through an investment fund 7
  • 8. And we’re different in other ways too… • Operates on behalf of its customers to maximise buying power • Aims to operate in an ethical and environmentally responsible way and to promote co-operative values 8
  • 9. Where did the idea come from? • High phone charges working on international projects • Looked for an alternative supplier • Realised that telephone calls bought and sold as a commodity • Ideal opportunity for a consumer co-operative 9
  • 10. The original concept evolved • Original idea: Joint-purchasing by NGOs with high international bills • Later widened to all types of customer • We only found out later that there are telecoms co- operatives in many other countries 10
  • 11. Getting started • 2 year trial phase • Built up traffic in spare time acting as an agent with two telecoms carriers in order to prove concept • It was difficult to persuade a carrier to sell wholesale to us (nowadays they call us all the time trying to sell to us!) • Started trading as a service provider in 1998 11
  • 12. Turnover Growth Turnover £12,000,000 £10,000,000 £8,000,000 £6,000,000 £4,000,000 £2,000,000 £0 12
  • 13. Our industry is contracting 13
  • 14. Profit before Distributions Profit Before Distributions £400,000 £350,000 £300,000 £250,000 £200,000 £150,000 £100,000 £50,000 £0 -£50,000 -£100,000 14
  • 15. What we did with the profit (2007-8) • Profit: £338,000 • Dividends to members: £58,000 • Co-operative loan fund: £58,000 • Share interest to members: £92,000 • Taxation: £50,000 • Allocation to reserves: £80,000 15
  • 16. Financially strong • No borrowings • Cashflow very strong • Good trading record • Financed by members not by external investors or banks • Compares favourably with our competitors 16
  • 17. Net Assets Net Assets £4,000,000 £3,500,000 £3,000,000 £2,500,000 £2,000,000 £1,500,000 £1,000,000 £500,000 £0 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 17
  • 18. Who are our customers? • 20,000 Home users – Joining because: • they like our approach • through affinity schemes • through acquisitions 18
  • 19. Who are our customers? • 3,000 business users including: – Other co-operatives – Charities – Social enterprises – Local authorities – Many other businesses – Political parties 19
  • 20. Living our co-operative values • Starts with promoting our membership – Having an active and vibrant democracy draws on our members’ energy and enthusiasm for us to do the best we can – Member ownership and strong member-led governance are at the heart of what we are about – Our members have encouraged us to have a stronger ethical approach 20
  • 21. Living our co-operative values • We publish an ethical policy – Our members approved this at the AGM – We have an ethical policy committee to oversee it • We do lots of things to show our support for other co-ops and the wider community • Strong environmental policy • We report on what we do using the Co- operativesUK framework 21
  • 22. Environment • Policy is driven by members • What gets measured gets managed! • We report on business travel – 86% by public transport • We provide free bikes for staff, and pay mileage for cycling and walking • We also report on emissions from our buildings 22
  • 23. Environment (continued) • We offset what we can’t reduce – includes supplier emissions • We have launched a Sustainability Fund – each time a customer switches to electronic billing, we put some of the postage savings into this fund. – It is used to improve our environmental performance in other ways 23
  • 24. Investment in renewables • We have invested in several co-operatives that produce renewable electricity – Westmill Windfarm Co-operative (£20,000) – Torrs Hydro New Mills (£7,500) – Westmill Solar (£20,000) – Drumlin (£20,000) • We invested in the Energy Prospects Co-operative – spreads the risks of getting local renewable electricity projects off the ground. 24
  • 25. Investment in renewables • In the last year we’ve invested £450,000 in solar PV on 5 sites • We’ve formed a joint venture (a co-op), called Co- operative Renewables Limited with two other organisations • CRL installed 4 of the 5 sites for us and has also installed 4 sites for Midcounties Co-op. • Now looking at other technologies as well 25
  • 26.
  • 27.
  • 28. Employee stakeholding • We are a consumer co-op, but our employees are recognised as partners and as a key stakeholder. We have: • An employee council to act as a forum for employees • A profit-sharing scheme which pays 11% of profits to employees based on hours worked. • A sales-related bonus scheme operating across all staff • 11% pension contribution – no employee contribution required (invested ethically). 28
  • 29. Ethical business • Ethical purchasing where possible – Fairtrade products – Recycled and from other co-ops/social enterprises – We don’t use high pressure techniques – Transparent pricing • Marketing – where we spend money – Affinity partners make up the majority – We have contributed £600,000 to charities and NGOs over the years in revenue-share 29
  • 30. Community and co-operative investment • Co-operative and Social Economy Development Fund – In most years the board has recommended the same amount as dividend is allocated to this fund each year – Total value now over £165,000 – Provides loan finance for new and developing co-ops – More recently we have invested in co-op share capital 30
  • 31. Why do customers join The Phone Co-op? • They like the fact that it’s a co-operative • Ethical stance • All about trust - not there to “rip them off” • Like to support an alternative to privately owned businesses • Good value • Dividend • Affinity schemes 31
  • 32. Acquisitions • Main focus is on organic growth, but we have also made 10 acquisitions since we started • Consolidation in our industry means we need to grow fairly quickly • Issues: – Acquired customers are not people/organisations who chose us – Potential for higher churn – Integration/cultural 32
  • 33. Acquisitions (continued) • In September 2010 – the telecoms business of SAGA. • Adds around 8,000 customers • As part of this deal we have a marketing partnership with SAGA under which they promoted our services to their 6m customers over 2 years. 33
  • 34. Mobile • We are now an MVNO (Mobile Virtual Network Operator) • “Phone Co-op” as network name • Major area for expansion • Currently over 2,000 handsets but growing fast 34
  • 35. Major surveys conducted in 2 different years • 1500-2000 non-business customers received survey forms with their bills • 40% of them returned forms - a very high response rate • Very high customer satisfaction rates 35
  • 36. Reasons customers choose The Phone Co-op 28.3% 24.0% 22.0% 30% 25% Percentages 20% 9.7% 15% 4.0% 2.3% 2.0% 10% 5% 0% more ethical prefer to buy low cost calls simple pricing 0845 number for receiving other supplier from a co-op my incoming members calls dividend The reasons 36
  • 37. External Recognition • Overall winner, Enterprising Solutions Award (Oct 08) for best Social Enterprise in the UK, 2008 • Winner, the Green England Award for Customer Service, December 2008 • Winner the Federation of Communications Services Green Award, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 • Winner Co-operative Excellence Award, for reporting to members, June 2009 • Finalist, National Business Awards, November 2009 • Honourable mention, dotCoop Global Awards 37
  • 38. External Recognition – most recent • Finalist in Midlands Entrepreneur of the Year Award, 2012 • Winner, in 2011 of the FCS Reseller of the Year Award 38
  • 39. 39
  • 40. Future growth plans • The Phone Co-op’s Board wants to see co- operative model make a real impact in telecommunications, and perhaps more widely • Acquisitions – ready for more • Growth of the mobile model – potentially through new channels • We’ve looked at expansion in other European countries 40
  • 41. Challenges/issues we faced • Started with very little money (£35k) made up of loans from members, retained revenue share and a loan from ICOF. – Had to keep costs low – Operated from a spare bedroom for 2 years (it got crowded as we grew!) – Took time to develop in embryonic form before it became a full-time job 41
  • 42. Our financing model • We are 100% owned by our members • Members invest in withdrawable share capital • We tell members if they invest 1-2 months’ phone bills we won’t require external finance • This has been the case since very early on 42
  • 43. Share capital growth Share Capital Growth £4,000,000 £3,500,000 £3,000,000 £2,500,000 £2,000,000 £1,500,000 £1,000,000 £500,000 £0 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 43
  • 44. Next steps • Our co-operative identity has helped us grow • Customers trust us and we retain them • We have better customers – Low bad debt ratio • But we sometimes struggle to get recognised • This led us to consider a new approach 44
  • 45. Next steps • We have watched how the Co-operative brand has transformed perception of the “traditional” Co-op • This brand isn’t just used for food, pharmacy, travel and funerals • We now have: – The Co-operative Legal Services – The Co-operative Childcare – The Co-operative Energy 45
  • 46. The Co-operative brand – the way ahead for us? • We carried out extensive research using focus groups • We found: – People hate their telecoms providers – They trust The Co-operative brand – They have a pretty good idea what a co-op is and stands for, and they identify with that – They haven’t heard of The Phone Co-op and when they are prompted with the name they aren’t sure what we do – They understood what “The Co-operative Phone and Broadband” would be all about and liked it. 46
  • 47.
  • 48.
  • 49. A difficult decision • There were many reasons to adopt the brand • But we also had to consider some risks – Would it be hard to communicate that we are an independent co-op people could join? – Would it undermine our governance in the long-term? – Would people think we had been taken over? – Would people see us as another non-core offering from a supermarket? – Would we be lose our operational independence by through over-tight controls we couldn’t live with? 49
  • 50. In the end we went for it • The brand has a very high level of trust • A great deal has been invested in it (remember the Bob Dylan adverts?) • Cross-selling opportunities via retail co-op societies • Size perception will help us to sell to larger organisations such as local authorities and larger charities 50
  • 51. At the heart of the Co-op Movement • In less than a month, we will be moving our Manchester office into Holyoake House, Co- operativesUK’s HQ • Puts us at the heart of the Co-op Complex in Manchester • Combined with the new brand, this places us in a good position at the core of the Movement, from which we can grow 51
  • 52. Getting even  • Since before The Phone Co-op started, I was an active board member in the co-op movement • A lot of co-op managers at the time saw the co- operative identity as a hindrance and had no vision for how it could support growth • I wanted to prove them wrong • Now with the adoption of the brand and the move into the heart of the movement, it feels like “closure” on that particular battle! 52
  • 53. Conclusion • The success of The Phone Co-op shows how a new consumer co-operative can start up in a highly competitive area of the economy and can build mass membership • Consumers are looking for a different model of business at a time when trust in established plcs is at a very low ebb • “We’re doing it ourselves” 53
  • 54. Be part of the story! • We hope you will join The Phone Co-op and help us grow • You can be part of it! 54
  • 55. How to contact The Phone Co-op • Contact details: • www.thephone.coop • Tel 0845 458 9000 • Fax 0845 458 9001 • enquiries@thephone.coop (general) • Vivian@thephone.coop (Vivian Woodell) 55