Lean Construction Interview with Greg Howell


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Lean Construction Institute (LCI) co-founder and managing director, Gregory A. Howell was my guest on the podcast, The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell. In the podcast, we focused on the decentralization of decision and the empowerment of the people that are in direct contact with the work are the key components of this discussion. This is a transcription of the podcast.

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Lean Construction Interview with Greg Howell

  1. 1. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsSponsored by Lean Construction Interview with Gregg Howell Related Podcast: The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  2. 2. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsGregory A. Howell is co-founder and managing director of theLean Construction Institute (LCI), a non-profit organizationdevoted to production management research in design andconstruction. Howell brings 35 years of construction industryproject management, consulting and university-level teachingexperience to LCI. Prior to his appointment as the Associated General Contractors Visiting Professor in Construction Management at the University of New Mexico in 1987, Howell worked as a project engineer on heavy construction and general building projects and headed his own construction consulting firm for ten years. At UNM, Howell was honored withthe College of Engineering Teaching Excellence Award. In 1994the Associated General Contractors of America recognized him asits Outstanding Educator. He served as Eminent Scholar at theDel E. Webb School of Construction in 1996, and in 1997, Howellleft UNM to co-found LCI.Howell regularly addresses industry groups on the need for a leanproduction revolution in design and construction. His expertise inimproving productivity has resulted in consulting engagements onpower plants, petro-chemical facilities, commercial and industrialbuildings, and infrastructure projects in North and South Americaand Africa. Howell has taught in construction managementexecutive programs in numerous U.S. universities, including hisAlma matter Stanford, and in South Africa. He co-authoredProductivity Improvement in Construction with Clark Oglesby andHenry Parker, published by McGraw-Hill. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  3. 3. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Transcription of PodcastGreg Howell: I could do a several-hour standup routine of reallyfunny stories about this. I think in some ways, Lean is funny inthe sense that it contradicts your normal way of thinking.Glenn and I are beginning to think in a different way. We go outin the field, and were working on a project. We see somethinghappen, or we see somebody do something thats verycounter-intuitive in traditional practice, and it lines up with whatwere thinking, and we realize that this has helped us moveforward.We did not start off to adapt theory to practice. We started offlooking at work. We saw patterns there, and then we realizedthat there were underlying conceptual explanations that couldhelp us. Its not like academics sitting inside a room, readingbooks, thinking it up. Its the other way around.Joe Dager: Welcome everyone. This is Joe Dager, the host ofthe Business 901 podcast.With me today is Greg Howell. He is the cofounder and managingdirector of the Lean Construction Institute, a nonprofitorganization devoted to production management research anddesign and construction. Greg has 35-year construction industryproject management and consulting experience. He is a popularspeaker on the need for a Lean production revolution in designand construction.I enjoyed his keynote at the Lean Software Systems conferencethis past May, and it interested me enough to find out more aboutwhat is going on with Lean in the construction industry. Greg, Idlike to thank you for being my guest. Since youre one of thefounders of the Institute, could you give me a little history on The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  4. 4. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemswhen the marriage between Lean, and the construction industrytook place?Greg: It was a long dating period where we got to know oneanother.Greg: Lean in Construction developed out of the traditionalpractices in productivity improvement in construction. I wasinvolved with that. Its a great, long story. Beginning in 1979, Imeet Glenn Ballard. He and I have some suspicions abouttraditional project management.In the middle 80s, we get a job writing a new manual forForeman Planning. Its an old idea that if foremen made betterassignments, the world would be a better place. Those werewritten. Glenn and I thought about it for a while, and he came upwith the idea of measuring the performance of the planningsystem.How well did the planning system predict the condition of the jobone week in advance? The answer was 54% of the things on aforemans weekly work plan were actually completed during theweek that they were assigned by the foreman, as understood tothe foreman. The problems were logistics and coordination.We began to invent a planning system that dealt with that. Weran into the Lean world, in some ways, around the idea of theandon cord in manufacturing. We knew about Lean inmanufacturing, but thats always over there, and were over here.What we realized was necessary to make good assignments wasthat somebody had to quit making bad assignments. That personwas the foreman. We said; if you want to quit making badassignments, just say no. We joked about it as the Nancy Reaganapproach to planning. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  5. 5. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThe idea was that the foreman was in the best position todetermine if that work assignment could be completed. We werejust talking about me being in the Seabees. The motto is "cando." The idea that a foreman would say "no" is a deeply radicalact. It reminded us of stopping the line in manufacturing.Before LCI starts, there are a group of people get together 20years ago this year in Finland. There are five people went to that.That was the International Group for Lean Construction. You canfind that at IGLC.net. We have a conference somewhere in theworld every year, San Diego this one. IGLC was a very academicline, and Glenn and I were involved in that. Him from the first, Icame about a year later.About six or seven years later, Glenn and I are flying back fromworking with some early ideas of the Last Planner on a refinery inVenezuela. Glenn said, "This really is a conceptual problem, andwe ought to figure it out." We decided that evening to go out andsee if we could get some construction companies to give usenough money to buy some space that we could get to work andfigure it out. That was the foundation of LCI.We backed into Lean through the idea of saying "no" rather thanreleasing a defective assignment. In some ways, thats the key tounderstanding the difference between Lean in manufacturing andin construction.The question is what causes work to move from one specialist tothe next? In manufacturing, its mostly the way you design theline. In construction, its the administrative act of making anassignment. If that isnt under control, your project isnt. Thatsthe quick history of the whole thing.Joe: The Last Planner system came before Lean ConstructionInstitute. That is really what drove Lean and constructiontogether in your mind. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  6. 6. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsGreg: Yes. We started off to make a planning system. Once wesaw the numbers, 54% planning reliability, which was bothshocking and sounded about right, it was pretty overwhelming,actually. So, we began to develop a planning system.Our initial objective was relatively modest. It certainly wasmodest. We wanted to develop a planning system that wouldproduce predictable workflow and rapid learning. We didntconnect that in the Lean world at the time.We were certainly influenced by Goldratt, in his book, "The Goal."He has the simulation there, the parade simulation, with the diceand moving the work through that by showing the effect ofdependence and variation on system performance. Thats reallywhat put us into that world. Then, once we had that idea, wecould go read those Lean books, and we could translate. Once weunderstood what caused work to move, that opened the door toeverything else.Joe: You talk about rapid learning. You talk about iterations. Ilook at this Last Planner system. Its something that developed inthe late 80s, early 90s; I think, was where the beginning of it is.You can correct me. Nobody talked about "iterations" back then."Iterations" didnt become the typical word until the last coupleyears. Now we say it all the time. Were you really doing it backthen?Greg: Yes. I think the easiest way to translate it into the Leanworld, how it happened, was this idea of countermeasures. Weran into this problem. It was this unpredictable workflow causedby the inability of our planning system.We invented a countermeasure to that, which was the LastPlanner system. Initially, that was just a one -week thing wherewe did a better job of making sure that we had the wherewithalto do the task. We could do that. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  7. 7. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsPretty soon, we could make predictable workflow, but we didntknow if we were making the right work predictable, because thatwas out of the critical path schedule. The critical path schedulewas never in a good enough shape to inform the granularity wewere working at. We had to figure out how to get through that.Another countermeasure came up, which we call "Pull Planning,"where we get the people together on a sticky wall and figure outhow theyre going to manage the work in the coming period. Nowwe understand that as production system design.Thats where we actually thought through where are we going tostack the plywood, how are we going to move that in there, allthose details that are not captured in the sequential critical pathschedule? It was just; we got this problem solved, and then wegot, "Oops! How do we do that?"The next big problem that really moved, wed be in theseplanning meetings, and one contractor would say, "It would helpme a lot if some other contractor did this work in advance."The other contractor would say, "We could do that, but its not inour contract, and itd cost me a dollar. So, Im not going to do it."The first contractor would say, "It would save me five dollars. Arewe crazy?"The answer was "Yes!" Thats when we realized that the ability tomove money across boundaries was what limited our ability toinnovate. You just have a series of cycles like that, small cycles inthe Last Planner, next larger cycle with this Pull Planning, and thenext larger cycle at the project level. All of a sudden here wewere; like, all of a sudden, 15 years.Joe: How does the name "Last Planner" relate to the planningsystem? The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  8. 8. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsGreg: Theres always somebody who is the person who makesan assignment. Lots of companies say, "Why dont you call thatForeman Planning?" The reason we chose a different and outsideterm was we wanted to talk about the function. That is, the lastperson who makes an assignment, as opposed to the necessaryposition within a company. Because sometimes its the foreman,sometimes its the general foreman, sometimes its an office.Calling it "Foreman Planning" would in a way blind people to thereal function of this person, so "Last Planner" seemed like a goodidea at the time. Thats why we chose it. We wanted todistinguish it from traditional positions in construction.Joe: You talk about Pull Planning. Can you help someone gettheir arms around what Pull Planning is?Greg: Sure. There are two ways to advance stuff on a project orprobably anywhere. One is by push where you advance stuffbased on some schedule. Whether or not the project is ready fororder or not, the schedule says this should be delivered to thesite, and so we deliver it.Pull is when you advance stuff when the site is ready to use it orthe next station is ready to use it, and in that case, you signalfrom the work site, and Ill use that because thats where I live.You signal back to the logistics chain saying send me the beams,and thats a request. A pull signal can be understood as arequest, and something that really informs our approach to Leanmanagement is something called the language action perspective,and I wont go very far in this.There are some actions that we take in language. I make arequest. You asked me if I would do this podcast. I made apromise. We set a time. We set conditions that it would be donein about 30 minutes, and so you made a request, I made apromise. It will reach a point, Ill say I am done, and all of thatspeaking is the action. I request is the action. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  9. 9. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsWhen we begin to think about pull as a request then weunderstood that we were designing a system that fundamentallywas promise centered. You can say were designing theproduction system. You can also say it another way, weredesigning a project as a network of commitments, a series ofrequest promise cycles that are designed to deliver the bigpromise that somebody made to a client.So thats where that language comes from, and there is asignificant body of knowledge about that. We think its a moreimportant approach to --Ill call it human resources - than thekind of traditional motivationist approach. We think people dotheir darndest to do what they promise, and if we can learn tospeak more clearly and listen more sharply for requests andpromises, we can do a much better job.Joe: Is this the difference in Lean? When you use Lean, the planis the pull. It is the heart of what makes Lean work in projectmanagement?Greg: If you wanted to draw a line down the page and saytraditional project management on one side and Lean on theother, the traditional project management is focused on activitiesand pushing people to get those done by a certain date. Werefocused on flows instead of activities, and were focused on theuse of pull to create flow in projects.Joe: The construction industry is driven by project management.Is that how Lean is introduced into the construction industry,managing a project and how to go about it.Greg: Well, we sort of played work up. I mean, we wereoriginally in the productivity improvement role, which wasactually tried to improve the performance of one activity, placingconcrete, for example. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  10. 10. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsAnd we eventually realized when we began to create predictableworkflow on a project and rapid learning, and then that pullplanning I was talking about; we realized that we had a differentstrategy for managing a project.Were trying to optimize the project, not the piece wheretraditional project management proposes you can pressureeverybody to optimize their piece, and that will therefore optimizethe project.There is a big difference then between how we think aboutprojects actually work, and when David Anderson introduced meback there in Boston, he surprised me by saying that he had beenstruck by this paper that Lowry Caspel and I wrote back in, Ididnt know 1992 delivered to the Project Management Institutein a respectful way.I am not disrespectful to them at all, but the title of that paperwas The Theory of Project Management is Obsolete, and thatswhat we were speaking to was this idea of shifting the focus fromactivity to flow and shifting from local to global optimization werethe two issues that were highlighted in that paper. I had sweatypalms for sure when I did it.Joe: When doing the research for the podcast I was looking atthings, and this was in 1990, in 1992, and these little thingspeople now are just talking about in 2005/2006, getting awayfrom Waterfall, lets do Kanban, lets do Scrum. Scrum and agilehas been around a while, but you were writing about this in theearly 90s.Greg: Thats a nice compliment. My experience of living throughthis has been more groping in the dark than following a clearpath.You know; it has been a series of a kind of just trying to stayfocused. Maybe the easiest way to say it is what really got us The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  11. 11. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsgoing was that we really were focused on looking at the workitself.We said, look, if we can get the work right, if we can figure outhow to manage the work for the minimum amount of energy, theminimum amount of cost, the minimum amount of all that, as aproject level, then we can conform with organizational issues andcommercial issues around that. We thought common sense wouldprevail, and so in some ways; we are classic out of the Leanplaybook of going to Gemba and going to look at how the work isactually done, and coming to grips with that.It took us a long time to understand what we were doing. I thinkwe knew we were on to something, but you have to understand;we were calling for a big revolution in a very stable industry. Themore we learned, the more challenging we became to the statusquo. Like I say, were not disrespectful of that, but we began tounderstand that there was just a better way.I used to tell people that we were either crazy, or we might beright? And it was hard to tell for a long time.Joe: Well, the construction industry has so many different fieldsand diversifications. Certain segments, such as the buildingindustry, have embraced these concepts more so than others.Greg: The building industry, as opposed to, say, the heavyhighway industry? The building industry has far fewer traditionsof production system design than the heavy highway kind ofwork. The highway and bridges and all that, weve often thoughtabout how big a pile of gravel did we need, and how long are thepoles, and whats the timing for the scrapers and all that sort ofstuff. Those are production system design ideas. In civilengineering construction, they are not uncommon.The idea of the precision and predictability and the ways in whichwe think about them, I think, add to that industry. So its true The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  12. 12. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthat probably most of the Lean construction work is in buildingnow. Though you go out and look at whats in a modern freeway,with the amount of electronics and stuff that are undergroundthere, and you begin to realize its not just like piling dirt up,compacting it, and paving it, as it used to be, so that role isbeginning to open up to us.Where most of the action is right now is in projects, which arecomplex, uncertain, and quick, like hospitals, where the rate oftechnology change in the delivery of healthcare is very fast, thecycle time of that is faster than you can design and build ahospital. So how do you keep your options open as long aspossible to bring the latest of technology and healthcaremanagement into hospitals while youre designing and buildingthem?Having said that; its also being used to build social housing innorthern Nigeria very effectively, so its all over the map. I thinkthe center of action in the United States, is healthcare for sure.Joe: Has the adaptation of Lean plateaued in the constructionindustry or is it growing?Greg: I said its going off like a grenade. Either that, or theworld is spinning faster; Im not sure which it is. The demandnow for our training, for the LCI to provide services is reallygrowing. We just reconstituted our board because of that, andwere really stepping up that action.But Ill give you an example: in the last week, Ive been invited todo a seminar in Lima, one in Quito, Ecuador, and three inColombia. Im going to see if I can put all those together and godown there. I love that kind of work. When theyre starting to askfor seminars in three cities in Colombia, there must be somethinghappening in the world. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  13. 13. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: How do you introduce Lean to, lets say, other disciplines ofthe construction industry?Greg: We actually arent very evangelical. We were trying tofigure it out. We like it if people try to pick it up; we try to makeit available. We havent really set out to go, in a way, after thosevarious markets. I think our feet are more firmly planted inresearch than they are in marketing, and weve left that to theindustry and the consultants to go do that.The way I do it, wherever it would be, is to go out and go workwith the companies in that arena and go out and look at the workand try to understand what are the constraints, what are thesources of uncertainty, and begin to understand how we mightshift from these practices to something better based in theory?Joe: Can you tell me a bit about the Lean Construction Institute?Is it your typical trade organization? Or how is it structured?Greg: We are a 5013C or whatever that is, not for profit. Wewere founded to develop and disseminate new knowledgeregarding the management of work and projects; I think thatsout of the corporate documents. Thats what we set out to do.For a long time, it was Glen Ballard and I and a few kinds ofcontinuously growing set of both academics and practitioners. Wekind of just kept doing it. My wife kept the books; we were asmall group, and it wasnt very complicated. In the last few yearsthough, because of the demand, particularly since, Ill say, 2004,2003 when Sutter Health decided to deliver their six billion dollarprogram on these protocols that was when things really began totake off.We really -- how do I say this politely? -- failed to respondeffectively to the demand. We got way overloaded. We realizedwe were in a crisis mode, administratively, about two and a halfyears ago. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  14. 14. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThe board got together. They went "oh my God; its God; itsworse than we thought," and I said, "yeah, youre probablyright." So we got together again after that, decided that weneeded to hire, get an executive director that would handle thekind of administrative side and all that. Dick Byers stood up, andhes done a great job.The goal was to reconstitute the board, and to rethink what LCIis. We did that over the last year and a half. We now have aboard made up of three clients (owners, if you will), three generalcontractors, and three designers, architects, and engineers, threespecialty contractors.Jeffrey Liker has agreed to be on our board. We just had our sortof new constitutional meeting there in St. Louis; last week washow recent that is. So now were trying to put together a reallylonger-term strategic plan, and think about the constituencies weserve, and how to do our job.Joe: How can someone learn more about the Last Planner? Arethere classes, webinars taking place?Greg: Well, we have some training in Last Planner, and theres afair amount of material online.You can go to the LCI web site, leanconstruction.org. Were tryingto get those materials all made publicly available now. Werehaving some problems because of the historic nature of our website. There are also a lot of videos on that web site that you cansee there as well, and there are some papers and documents thatare available on the topic as well.One way is, you can go read about it, and learn about, it andthen go implement it -- or the alternative, which works just aswell, it takes longer, but it might be better, is go invent ityourself. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  15. 15. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThat is, go out and collect a weekly work plan, and see how wellthat weekly work plan predicted the condition of the job nextweek. Youll find out that the bunch of tasks didnt get completed.So you say, "Why didnt that get completed?" Ask that questionfive times, so you get down to some kind of root cause. Then, setin place a counter-measure so that never happens again.Eventually, you will run into the problem that the planning youcan make predictable work at the ground-level, but youre notsure youre making the right work effective, because you dontreally know how it connects to the larger project schedule -- soyoull invent that planning system there in the middle, and youllbuild it from the bottom up.I mean, it cant be that simple. Digby Christian says its "thehardest simple thing" youll ever do. You can do it from theground up. It takes longer, and it takes the discipline not to makeexcuses, to say, "Well; Charlies a good guy; were not going tocount that."There are two ways to go at it.Joe: Is there an actual software package for the Last Planner?Greg: We dont think you can automate judgment. There issoftware out there that can record what the system is doing.Where software really helps is in keeping track of all the logistics.Theres some very sophisticated software. Strategic ProjectSolutions has something that you need if youre going to use LastPlanner on building a refinery, or a liquid natural-gas facility orsomething like that.DPR Construction has just released another version of a kind ofLast Planner supporting software. Im sorry I cant recall thename of it, but I bet if you go to DPRs web site, you can find outabout that. Dean Reed is Lean Construction Institute member #1, The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  16. 16. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsand has been a long advocate in this world. Hes led thatdevelopment in that company, and we think thats a good ideatoo.Were really not particularly a commercial enterprise. We thinkits best to leave that to people who know what theyre doing.Joe: How can someone participate with Lean ConstructionInstitute?Greg: Oh, send us money!Joe: The easiest way, right?Greg: Really, thats a great question for me, because Ive leftout something important. Whats been the most surprising andmaybe wonderful thing about this is how open the LeanConstruction community is.What happened first at Sutter is that people who were trying toimplement it would get together once a month, somewhere inNorthern California, have a burger and a beer, and talk aboutwhat they were doing. Different companies would come togetherand share their experience, and talk about how they dealt withthis problem or that.That set of ideas has begun to develop now. One of the boardsgoals is to have a community of practice in every majorconstruction market in the United States.So theres northern California, theres one in Chicago. Theres onedown in the Carolinas. I think theres one going in Atlanta.Theres one starting up in New York City. Theres a great onedown in Dallas, Texas. Theres a good one in Phoenix. Theres onein Los Angeles.These organizations have monthly or bi-monthly meetings wherethey get together, and they usually have a presentation by The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  17. 17. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemssomebody out of their community that says, "Implementing LastPlanner on a brewery," or something, I dont know.They present what theyre doing, and then they have aconversation in the community.LCI, my view of LCI is that whatever change happens in theindustry will be facilitated by the associations within the industry.The AGC, the AIA, the Construction Users Roundtable, and all thevarious trade associations out there have constituencies that willbe affected by this.Im thinking if we can get those associations together toco-evolve together we can speed whatever happens. LCI itself isreally not an association in that sense.We dont have a constituency. Were more like the Green BuildingCouncil or somebody like thats advocating a process or a set ofideas, and we welcome anybody who wants to be in that game.Joe: Is there anything that I didnt mention about LCI that youwould like to?Greg: I guess theres something I wish Id said about this. Ithink were developing a kind of coherency in this approach wehave now. Traditional practice is coherent. It all fits together andit fits together in the way it connects with say the insuranceindustry and the logistics industries and all that. Its all a piece.One of the big areas where the industry is not yet lined up withus is around issues of insurance and bonding. That industry isreally turning around now and trying to figure it out becausesome of them have come to realize that their understandingbefore of where risk arises is different from ours.Traditional project management says, "Things go bad because wehired the wrong person," or "Bad things happen to good people." The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  18. 18. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsWe can show that risk arises from the way we manage the work,by how predictable the workflow is a good example.I guess I suggested already the international scope of this, whichis quite significant. Lots of this is going on in northern Europe andlots of it in Australia, lots of it in Peru and South America, in Chileand Brazil. Thats happening.Joe: Is there anything thats coming up? Do you have a tradeconference or anything else that LCI puts on?Greg: There are two big conferences coming. One is this yearthe International Group for Lean Construction is going to meet inthe United States. That happens once every four years. Last year,it was in Lima.Im going to make a plug. Normally, we have an industry daybefore the academic two or three days. Normally, we have 30 or40 people wherever theyve been in the world, practitioners whoshowed up for the first day. In Lima, 500 people showed up forindustry day.Joe: Wow.Greg: Thats kind of whats happening. The International Groupfor Lean Construction is meeting in San Diego. You can go toIGLC.net or just probably hit IGLC 2012, and you can get thewebsite for that. You can see the program and whats happeningthere.Then in October, I believe Ive got that right. In October, theLean Construction Institute is holding its annual meeting, and itsgoing to be near Washington, D.C. this year. Its going to be overand just across the river in Arlington this year. Were expecting avery large turnout for that.We set that back there because one of the really interesting areaswhere Ill say the edge is here in Lean is around how do we do The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  19. 19. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthis on projects where government contracts and managementpractices, lets see how to be charitable about this, arent themost effective.Many parts of the government are working to figure out how todo this and bring it in. But we thought we might as well go nearthe seat of power there and see what we could influence in thatarea.Joe: Whats the best way for someone to contact you? Youmentioned your website and...Greg: Im always pleased to be more completely overwhelmedby email. My address is ghowell@leanconstruction.org. Im gladto hear from them and point them in whatever direction I can tomake connections.I think my job; my personal job is to connect people and ideas.Thats what Im trying to do. Its been great fun doing it.Joe: I think its a great conversation here, and I appreciate itvery much. The website for LCI is leanconstruction.org. If wehavent mentioned that before, I would like to thank you Greg,and I enjoyed it very much.Greg: Well, Joe thanks you for the opportunity. Great fun. The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901
  20. 20. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Joseph T. Dager Phone: 260-918-0438 Skype: Biz901 Fax: 260-818-2022 Email: jtdager@business901.com Website: http://www.business901.com Twitter: @business901 Lean Service Design TrilogyJoe Dager is president of Business901, a firm specializing inbringing the continuous improvement process to the sales andmarketing arena. He takes his process thinking of over thirtyyears in marketing within a wide variety of industries and appliesit through Lean Marketing and Lean Service Design.Visit Lean Marketing Lab: Being part of this community will allowyou to interact with like-minded individuals and organizations,purchase related tools, use some free ones and receive feedbackfrom your peers. Marketing with Lean Book Series included in membership Lean Sales and Marketing Workshop Lean Service Design Workshop The Pull in Lean Construction–Greg Howell Copyright Business901