An Evangilist of Innovation


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Sylvain Cottong has worked extensively at these crossroads and as an early Internet evangelist, he has been advising governments & companies on strategies for the networked society. He lives & works in Luxembourg and Berlin.

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An Evangilist of Innovation

  1. 1. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Sponsored byAn Evangelist of Innovation Guest was Sylvain CottongRelated Podcast:At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  2. 2. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Economist by education, Sylvain Cottong has spent his career at the intersections of business, society, technology, science & culture, with the value of design for process, service & product development and more generally with leadership & innovation. Sylvain speaks at conferences around Europe on Internet, Innovation, Social business,Communication and Design related matters. He lives & works inLuxembourg and Berlin.His areas of interest and expertise are:  Leadership and innovation management  Service innovation  Business model innovation  Social business & enterprise 2.0  Intellectual capital management & learning organizations  Complexity management, trendwatching, backcasting & forecasting  Customer experience management, service dominant logic & social CRM  Design management, service design & user experience design Where you can find him:  A Luxembourg based network of international consultants.  A Luxembourg based public sector innovation consultancy.  nectar: A Berlin based user experience design & service innovation agency.  integratetplace: A design consultancy specializing in 3 dimensional design & urban communication  Member of the Internet of Things Council (,  Care To Design healthcare service design collective (  New Club of Paris ( At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  3. 3. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Transcription of PodcastJoe Dager: Welcome everyone. This is Joe Dager, the host ofthe Business901 podcast. With me today is Sylvain Cottong.He is located in Germany where he is a practitioner of bothService Design and the Business Model Generation platforms.Throughout his career Sylvain, who is an economist by education,has worked at the crossroads of economics, society, culture andtechnology.As an early Internet evangelist he has been advisinggovernments and companies of strategies for the networkedsociety.After having spent time in the user experience design communityhe then started being involved and interested in strategicplanning, innovation management, service design, designthinking, social and public sector innovation and technologies,intellectual capital and the future of work.Sylvain, Id like to welcome you after that introduction. Could youfill in any gaps that I left out about yourself and tell me aboutyour organization?Sylvain Cottong: Hi Joe, and thank you very much for havingme for the podcast. Im quite honored. Hello to everyone, whowill be listening to the podcast.First, Id like to add that I am also based in Luxembourg, so Imswitching between Luxembourg and Berlin. Sometimes inLuxembourg, sometimes in Berlin but these are quite closelocations so you could say it is in the Germanophone area ofEurope where Im located, basically. But as Luxembourg is myoriginal country, Im also involved in the French speakingcommunity because thats a place where German and Frenchcome together. At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  4. 4. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsFor the rest, I think that your introduction was already quiteexplaining of where I come from, what I do. My organization is aconsultancy. I call it a new management consultancy. I have beenstepping through all those innovative stuff happening over thelast 15 to 20 years and getting each time into new subjects thatwere arising. Im certainly more interested in, what I would say,and social science part of management more than into thefinancial, technical or legal part of it.Joe: I find it pretty interesting that you are an economist whopractices innovation. You may have to go back a bit but how didthat come about?Sylvain: Economists try to measure innovation, especiallytoday. I just wrote a report for the Luxembourg Ministry of theEconomy on service innovation. They try to understand whatinnovation is and how to measure it and how to support it betterand what is the criteria, the real criteria that they should take tosupport companies starting that are innovative, etc.Innovation is a very economic concept today as we know that wecant really go on with that much more cost-cutting and newercustomers or markets because a lot of stuff is saturated.Innovation gets one of the most important, if not the single mostimportant driver for new value creation. Economists definitely getmuch more interested in how innovation works, what it is andhow to measure it. Thats not the easiest stuff for them becauseinnovation is not something that you could measure, like waterflow or something like that.Joe: You hit a key point right there. Even though I come fromthe process methodology world, I simply dont think faster,better, cheaper works anymore because its not sustainable. Itsthe innovation side, and that user and customer experience sideis where the growth for your company is located today. At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  5. 5. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsSylvain: Yes. Of course. I totally agree with you, and Im alsototally convinced about that.You could also look at it from a different point of view, from themicroeconomic point of view, which is about value creation andvalue perception. What do people consider as value? This issomething that might evolve over time. This is dependent onwhat culturally is going on. This is also dependent how people areconnected and can talk to each other, how information iscirculating, etc.This of course, we all know, is something that fundamentallychanged since the emergence of the Internet, starting fromsomething like 95 maybe where all these things change. Thatsalso why economists are interested in it because microeconomicsis a part of economics, so theres also Service Dominant Logic,you might know about Vargo and Lusch, writing about ServiceDominant Logic in a more academic way, how marketing ischanging.By reading their articles you see that in fact they are talkingabout the microeconomic paradigm of value. What is value, howdoes a customer see value? Where does he see value? Thatspretty much something I am very interested in and of coursefrom the customers perspective, and this is also very interestingfor economists, because its where it all starts.Joe: Well, you bring up S-D Logic, which Im a big proponent of,and it does seem thats been stuck in academia a little bit, andthat its just coming more to the forefront.Sylvain: I totally agree and as with all these more theoreticalideas, they start rather in science than academia. Because whileeconomics at the base is a science, do you use the wording of theeconomic science, it sounds pretty much academic and not muchlike everyday business or marketing. At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  6. 6. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsI totally agree that the Service-Dominant Logic mindset is prettymuch entering somehow everywhere so their theoreticalframework is something that can help explain different thingshappening i the markets out there right now, I think.Joe: You were very early into the Internet world. Then youevolved in the user experience, and now that has taken you intoservice design. Can you tell me what the difference between userexperience design and service design is, or is there one?Sylvain: Yes, thats a big discussion going on in the community,in the communities of user experience designers and the servicedesigners alike.Its pretty interesting, because I started in the user experiencedesign community that even didnt exist when the Internetemerged. The first stuff was the usability guys, the UPA guys; theNielsen Norman groups stuff, etc., which was more about thetraditional HCI usability thing.But then quite soon people realized that theres something moreinto that than the pure usability stuff. There has been userexperience design as a discipline emerging, integrating manymore things than just maybe the usability part of it -- meaningdesign research, better understanding customers needs and theirproblems to be solved, empathy, ethnography and all that stuff.On the other side also how to create compellingexperiences -- not only get things working, but also make thingsfun, and make things engaging, compelling, etc. So especially ina world where there was suddenly much more different types ofinformation emerging. How could you make sure that you gainmore attention than your competitors? All these things gain muchmore importance.What the user experience does is, looking mainly at the digitalinterfaces, the digital experiences. Thats where it comes from, At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  7. 7. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthe websites or on the computers. Then it started also to be themobiles and mobile phones, and now its everything. Its talkingwith other devices like Internet- enabled devices.In fact, its about interactive design; its about identifying allthese touchpoints in the digital experience and trying to optimizeit in terms of experience, in terms of jobs to get done, in terms ofall these things.Service design pretty much is similar, but it considers all thetouchpoints, all sorts of touchpoints beyond the digital ones. Andif you think about all the possible touchpoints, you immediatelysee that there might be a lot of them. So its the call centers, butmaybe its the company cars, its how warranties are handled, itshow many, many things are done.All these things have to work together to create that interactivecompelling experience for the customer. So they also share thesame methodologies in terms of design research. They maybehave different prototyping methodologies because they prototypedifferent things. Some of them are also quite similar.For example, the customer journey maps, also the blueprints.You could use it for digital experience only, but you can also useit for experiences beyond the digital experiences. So in servicedesign, the digital experience is just one part of it.It is interesting to see that, at the beginning, the twocommunities were quite different. The user experience designersand the service designers, because the service designers tendedmore to come from the pure design community, whereas the userexperience designers were people quite early involved in digitalstuff. So maybe more like graphic designers or someprogrammers and stuff like that.Then on top of that there is also the customer experiencecommunity emerging, which are more people coming from the At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  8. 8. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsmarketing side. But, in fact, they just all got in a way; I wouldsay, taken by the same things happening in the markets but fromdifferent points of views and different angles.Joe: Im going to have to throw something in there. It soundslike we just have more sellers than buyers, so we have all thesedifferent designers converging on the one customer.Sylvain: There is something in that, and if you follow some ofthe blog posts by some known people in the area of UX servicedesign, customer experience they start to write about it. In fact,were talking all about the same thing, so we should maybe haveone single language, which would make it easier for us.Joe: Lets get to the practical side a bit. How do you introduce ordefine service design to a customer?Sylvain: That always depends on the customer and the contextbecause you have to always get people where they are. So youfirst have to understand where they are, of course.Maybe what their problem is, and how they think, and whichindustry they are in or whatever, so thats something you justhave to feel when getting introduced to people.A way I like to take to introduce it is simply telling them that theyshould imagine themselves, what they would like to have as aservice experience, when they go to that place, or to that seller,or that supplier.Then also asking them, for example, why did you go to this oneand not the other one? What was the reason, etc.? Then theystart to come up with reasons, and I can point to them and tellthem. Well, thats exactly what service design tries to do to gethold of these things, to structure these things, and to put it alltogether. At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  9. 9. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsAnd then, of course, the conversation moves on to more details,but thats quite a good way to take them because who doesntwant to have good experience when he goes to a seller?Joe: Now do you actually conduct training sessions in servicedesign or do you just jump into using service design to solvecustomer problems?Sylvain: No. Well, this is quite mixed because theres often kindof workshops involved in customer projects at the beginning. Imalso thinking of conferences where Im invited. A mixture, but atthe end my aim is to do projects to design compelling services.Joe: One of the concepts that I think is difficult is when youhave a product- dominated company and when you first introduceservice design or thinking in a service dominant way, is thatdifficult for them to grasp? Do they have trouble with looking at itother than within their own four walls?Sylvain: Again, it depends on whom you have in front of you.So there are some of them that understand more easily andothers that might not be as easily, but what I try to do again isthe same thing. I ask them, "So, your product, what does yourproduct do? Why do you think that a customer buys yourproduct?" The answer, well if its a toothbrush, its for brushingtheir teeth, of course.So they solve a problem with your product. They, in fact, brushtheir teeth. They want something done; they want something toget the job done so in fact they get a service by using yourtoothbrush.Thats the frame, Im getting them into the service dominant logicmind set. And quite rarely people are not agreeing when you takeit this way around, you know, because its quite a natural story atthe end. But thats only one point. At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  10. 10. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThe other point is there is a lot of talk today in "servitizing" yourproduct that means finding some additional types of servicearound the product. So there is the basic service, in terms ofservice dominant logic that each product provides because itsonly in service avatar, or it masks service provision in that logic.But if you better understand peoples context and the jobs, theytry to get done from their point of view you can often finddifferent models with additional types of service around yourbasic product service. Because in the view and in the eyes of thecustomer, this is something that goes together and this is the oldquestion of inside-out and outside-in.Inside-out means that you produce something, and you have theview of how you produce the toothbrush, and thats what youknow and thats what you think. The customer, he has maybe adifferent problem. He has to get up in the morning and get readyto go to work. Thats how he sees the thing, and tooth brushing isjust one point of it.And if you look at these things in that way you find room forservice innovation. You find room for "servitizing" your product.You find room for a lot of new ideas.Joe: I notice youve been working with the business modelcanvas. Is that the area that youve really addressed with it? Imean to go in there and evaluate the jobs to be done and startbuilding from that platform. Is that how you are using thecombination of service design and the business model canvas?Sylvain: Exactly, because all these things go together, youknow? For me, the business model canvas is kind of a top- levelview on all the activities on the value chains, but in terms ofinteractions and networks, I would say.And as we all know today, the interactions of networks aregetting more important because the value isnt in the flows and At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  11. 11. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthe networks and on the stacks anymore, and becauseinformation is available to everybody.Of course, the business model canvas is a very interesting tool.First, you get a different picture of your existing business model;often many people dont look at their business model from thisrelational networking and interaction point of view.Its also quite easy to understand. My experience with the canvasis that they are always quite happy to do that exercise, to get thisdifferent view from what they are doing. Within the businessmodel canvas, there are the building blocks talking aboutcustomer segments, about customer relationships and stuff likethat.That is, where service design gets in because to design theserelationships and to understand these segments, well, they haveto do some design research, some ethnographic research andalso the more traditional quantitative research. Of course, havethe tools to design these relationships that in fact are the servicesthat are delivered and the way that they are delivered.So in terms of strategic business consulting, all these tools worktogether. The one is maybe a broader view. The other one isdetailing some point of it, etc. So what I try to do is get my ownmix of tools and models.Im also using different ones. Im also using stakeholdermapping; some value network analysis; some SWOTanalysis -- the good old SWOT analysis, a very good thing tostart. I would even say you should start with it. And then also theBlue Ocean strategy model is very interesting if you want to seehow within a business model you could do the difference, etc.Its understanding how all these things and tools work together,and thats what I like to do. And thats one of the reasons whyIm involved with different types of community, the service At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  12. 12. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsdesign community, the user design community, but also moreeconomists communities, marketing communities, etc., to try tounderstand what is the common ground that is emerging therebecause that is where the new value, and the new knowledge is.Joe: I think you brought a particular point up earlier in thatstatement that I think few people look at it from this viewpoint.That is that all of these different components of the businessmodel canvas, when you go through them, the real value is thestrength of the connections between these components.I always use it in a marketing sense that you have all thesedifferent events or all these different programs or sales calls orwhatever out there. Its not any particular event or node thatcreates that much value. Its the strength of the connectionbetween all of them is where the value is.Sylvain: Its the connections that are important. This again alsolinks to what the people from the social business movement aresaying that the value isnt the networks and not in the stacks anymore. The more you are in different networks the more you cancreate value. You have to also be more open and moretransparent to do that.There are implications of how you organize internally, whichmeans that you have to have flattened hierarchies within yourcompany. You have to connect also your employees so that youcan better connect to all the different partners, suppliers, etc. Sosome people are saying business -to -consumer and thebusiness-to-business will disappear. We will only have people topeople left now because everything is going to be somehowconnected.In the end it is about the people that connect and about the valuethey can create for each other. Thats exactly the reason why the At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  13. 13. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsbusiness model canvas is so interesting because it takes this newreality and puts it somehow in the front of how value is created.Joe: I think the canvas allows you to iterate, to make changeseasily as that networking takes place and as that network grows.Sylvain: Of course, its a kind of an agile tool. Well anyway,everything is agile today.So we wont talk about agile any more soon, I think, becauseeverything is agile. Its just a new model. And of course, thebusiness model canvas is also very well-suited to do iterations, totest some stuff, to simulate some stuff, etc. As it is that manynetworks and flow-based and connection-based, it really is veryeasy to use for these kinds of simulations.Joe: How do you get an organization to start thinking this waybecause most of us are still trapped in that goods dominant-typelogic? Is it something an organization can learn?Sylvain: Well, you have to talk to them. You have to explain tothem. What I basically try to do is when you get in front ofdecision-makers and executives, they, well, normally they tend tobe people that have some analytical mind, and anyway, they areforced to think about the future of the organization.What I basically do is just get into the same type of conversationthat we just now had and try with some simple examples toillustrate to them what the mindset is, what it could be and howthings are changing, etc. Works quite well, which doesnt meanthat they immediately jump on the project the day after, but itstarts working in their heads and its like all this change,high-level change projects that you might do, people need tohave some time, they then start to dig a little bit themselves intothe subjects to understand a little bit better, etc. At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  14. 14. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsThen something like six months later or sometimes 12 monthslater, they are there. "lets do a project. That sounds interesting,youre completely right about it."Joe: I come from the process methodologies, and I come froman engineering background and engineering world. Ive reallynoticed a big difference the last couple of years, getting involvedaround designers and services Im thinking, because when I talkthe engineers and when I talked to the analytical people, theresthe five whys.Were coming up with root cause, heres the answer. When I talkto designers, I often get the feeling the solutions are onlytemporary. Is that the real difference in the mindset?Sylvain: There is a difference in the mindset analytical minds,they work much more linear, and often in terms of predictability.On the other side, designers have this mindset theyre always inthe future, so theyre always in "what might be," "what could bevery different from now."Which is of course, lets say, a financial planner, is mostinterested in at the beginning because he wants to have security,he wants to plan, etc.But all the analytical guys, they also start to notice that times arechanging, and they are very, very rapidly changing in terms ofunpredictability and insecurity and stuff like that, so they see withtheir traditional tools that it isnt sufficient anymore to plan thefuture.That also makes them a bit more open and interested in what adifferent type of mindset could be. Then again, design thinking, ina way, tries to bring all this stuff together.Its not about getting rid of the analytical and the more formalthinking, but its about putting these two together because we At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  15. 15. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsface new challenges to go one step further in our models tomanage and to deal with the challenges.Joe: It seems to me there are so many tools in design thinkingand service design. We talk about storytelling, journey maps,theaters, safaris. Is there a simplified approach?Sylvain: Its more about a mindset, I would say. Then differenttools you can use. The mindset is getting this different type ofuse together instead of having the one view that maybe was theruling view for the industrial age, for the last 300 years, in termsof unlimited resources and everything is predictable.Now, of course, these are new and emerging disciplines, so thetools are developed, somehow, as from scratch by the communityby itself. Its also interesting to notice that a lot of this stuff,doesnt necessarily first emerge in universities, but within thepracticing community, and they do that theoretical stuff inparallel to develop through them the molds.And then it enters the universities to start teaching the models,which are very interesting evolution and another consequence ofthis changing landscape of knowledge communities that areconnected and not necessarily need to be academic knowledgecommunities anymore, etc.At the end, it is a challenge to understand all the truths that areout there to analyze them, and then you have to make your ownchoice what makes sense for you and how to attempt to puttogether a particular project without just taking textbooks thatare out there and using every single tool and method for everysingle project.That just certainly doesnt work. Everyone must have his ownlittle R&D on top of it and put together all the differentmethodologies in a way he thinks fits well for dealing with that At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  16. 16. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemstype of project. Thats basically what Im doing with all the stuffIm doing now.Joe: What do you enjoy the most about your consultancy?Sylvain: Well, to be self-employed, first. Second, to have afreedom of choosing the projects I want to do, targeting the typeof customers I want to work with and, also, being able to decidewhat I will develop next as a new type of service or a new type ofknowledge integrating into my package, or whatever.So thats pretty much what I like. Being into all the innovativestuff, I like the future. I like everything that is tomorrow, that willbe tomorrow, that is just emerging. I like new things that solveproblems in different ways, etc. So, of course; you have to havea curious mind.Joe: You have to answer a question for me when I was lookingat your site. What is the New Club of Paris?Sylvain: Well, the New Club of Paris is a gathering of peoplefrom around the world that basically has been working for the last10 or 20 years on the subject of the intangibles, or intellectualcapital.What they try to do is show the importance of intellectual capitaland intangibles in value creation and also in the competitivenessof companies and in the competitiveness of nations, meaning thatour traditional accounting systems tend to look at mostly thetangible values because thats the ones that are most easily putinto a price, into a money amount of something.Now, the way you do knowledge management, the way you trainyour people, the way you do networking and connect to differenttype of communities, all of these things are very difficult toevaluate in terms of money. But we all know, and there is alsowhat service economy modeling says, that skills and At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  17. 17. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemscompetencies are, in fact, what is exchanged at the end on themarket because it is those which provide the service and theexperience on top of the product.The New Club of Paris is looking at these concepts at a veryabstract level. They are mainly economists and academics,professors, etc., but also some other professionals, high-levelconsultants from European Investment Bank, World Bank, etc.And to explain to decision makers that there is somethingchanging and we have to find new ways of measuring this.This is a big challenge, of course, because a lot of things wouldhave to change in microeconomics and macroeconomics in termsof how accounting is done. This also joins stuff done by, forexample, Nobel Prize winner Stiglitz working on newmeasurements of GDP, beyond GDP, etc. All these things arelinked.What is very in testing is that what is happening in terms ofconcrete projects, when were talking about service design, aboutempathy, about ethnography and about all these things ofnetworks and the value of networks, but its basically what theyare talking about in terms of the intangibles and intellectualcapital. So again bringing this high-levelmicroeconomic/macroeconomic analysis together with what isreally happening in everyday markets and companies. Thats theNew Club of Paris.Joe: What Im thinking is that what gets measured is what getsdone, that old saying. And if were not measuring knowledge, ifwere not measuring some of the intangibles, its difficult for ourorganizations to focus on.Sylvain: Of course, so thats one of the problems. We all knowthat they are very important in terms of competitive advantageand value creation, but we dont have, really, models to measure At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  18. 18. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthem. So were facing quite a challenge. This is something thatisnt really solved yet.If you look at banks, for example, they start to do these kinds ofanalyses. Its interesting to look at how they do because they areconfronted with it because when they have to decide to givesome money to an entrepreneur, they have to understand howhigh the risk is. They have to understand all the elements thatcould contribute to the risk, of course.Thats again very basic economic behavior. They feel that allthese intangibles, of course, are getting more important inevaluating their risk of giving money to somebody or not. So theytry literally to develop their internal models of evaluation wherethey take in to account these intangibles.But its not something that is commonsense, I would say. Soeverybody is trying to do it his own way and what the New Clubof Paris tries to do is can we come up with something that couldbe used by everybody, which could be a new model foreverybody.Joe: Whats next on the horizon for you?Sylvain: 2012 turns out to be a very busy year, so I have to findthe time to think about it. What is happening is that, for example,I just got involved on a project in an architectural process. Wedecided to make a workshop about architectural service designand service dominant logic together. Thats one thing.I recently got involved in the Internet of Things Council, which isa very interesting area as well because I turn out to be agadgetist, as you might have understood also, getting earlyinterested in Internet stuff, etc. There is so much potentialservice innovation in the Internet of Things area. But there arealso quite some ethical challenges. There will be implications on At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  19. 19. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsfinancial markets and stuff like that. So thats also something Imquite interested in.Joe: How can someone contact you?Sylvain: My website, You can also findme on Twitter @sly. Or you can just Google my name, SylvainCottong. Youll find me on the different networks. It shouldnt bethat difficult if you really want to contact me.Joe: Sylvain, it was my pleasure to have you, and I thought youshed some light on the new and expanding world of servicedesign. Thanks again.Sylvain: Thank you very much, Joe. Bye-bye. At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901
  20. 20. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Joseph T. Dager Business901 Phone: 260-918-0438 Skype: Biz901 Fax: 260-818-2022 Email: Website: Twitter: @business901Joe Dager is president of Business901, a firm specializing inbringing the continuous improvement process to the sales andmarketing arena. He takes his process thinking of over thirtyyears in marketing within a wide variety of industries and appliesit through Lean Marketing and Lean Service Design.Visit the Lean Marketing Lab: Being part of this community willallow you to interact with like-minded individuals andorganizations, purchase related tools, use some free ones andreceive feedback from your peers. Marketing with Lean Book Series included in membership Lean Sales and Marketing Workshop Lean Service Design Workshop At the Crossroads of Economics, Society, Culture & Technology is… Copyright Business901