Podcast #287 from http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2014/07/287-foam-
Introduction: Ben Greenfield Fitness episode 287. What Is The Best Way To Eat
Eggs, Gelatin vs. Collagen, Better Sleep For New Mothers, Foam
Rolling 101, Germs On Water Fountains, and much more.
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Brock: So this week has been pretty cool workout vice for me, how about
Ben: Well, Brock, I’m quaking in my boots this morning because I’ve
got - Wednesdays now are the day where I have my toughest
workout of the week, meaning…
Brock: You’re quaking in your boots!
Ben: I’m quaking in my boots! That’s the nice way to say crapping my
Brock: Freaking out on the inside?
Ben: Anticipation of this afternoon’s workout.
Brock: So what is it?
Ben: Well, I’m now down to about a month and a half before I shove off
to California to go do the Kokoro Camp and SealFit Academy with
Commander Mark Divine and Mark has guaranteed me that he’s
going to give me special treatment, meaning that they’re gonna
focus on trying to break me as much as possible. So now I’m doing
at least one…
Brock: Not cool!
Ben: I’m now doing at least one SealFit wad each week, what’s called an
operator wad. And these are designed to kinda just make you a
little bit more mentally and physically tough and so today’s
workout is called the Curtis. And the way the Curtis goes is you
load up a barbell to 135 lbs., so not a ton of weight but basically 45
lb. weight played on either side. And then Curtis is a 100 reps of a
power claim up to my shoulders, rack it on my shoulders and then
left lunge just basically a left reverse lunge to a right reverse lunge
to an overhead push press. And I do that a hundred times. That’s
Brock: Wow! Without stopping.
Ben: I will probably maybe get about 20 in and then I’ll break it into
tens, and then I’ll break it into fives, then threes, then twos, ones,
and whatever it takes to get to a hundred. There’s no way that…
Brock: Yeah. I’m just thinking mental strength is gonna be the issue.
Ben: Yeah! There’s no way I could do it all at once. So, yeah! That’s
Brock: Wow! Yeah, that definitely - there’s a lot of physical issues with
that, but mentally that’s gonna be really tough.
Ben: Yes! And whoever Curtis is, I’m sure that I’ll be cursing Curtis by
Brock: That makes my workout seem like a sort of skipping through the
daisies on a lovely spring morning. All I did was a whole bunch of
plank exercises and some wall sits and some lunges and lunge
jumps and then went for a fast run.
Ben: It was!
Brock: Tons and tons of news flashes each and every day on
twitter.com/bengreenfield and now we’re gonna show you the
Ben: That’s right! Put your propeller hats on ‘cause we’re gonna dig
into a study. So today’s study that we’re gonna talk about is from
the International Journal of Sports Physiology and Performance.
And this is the one that I tweeted out over at
twitter.com/bengreenfield and what I actually told you in that
tweet was that you may actually want to run behind the person in
front of you in your next triathlon or 5K or 10K or marathon.
Brock: Instead of running in front of the person behind you?
Ben: Instead of running in the front of them. Of course, there is the
exception that if they have gas or if they’re doing the whole
shotgun as they run that may be a reason not to run behind them.
However, this study actually looked into drafting. And found that
when you run close to the person behind you, you not only finish
and in this case…
Brock: Wait, wait, the person in front of you….
Ben: The person in front of you, that’s right. You draft off of them, the
same ways you would draft off of someone on a bicycle. So, not
only they found that the runners were able to finish a 3,000 meter
run which is a significant amount of difference in 9 minutes and 4
seconds vs. 9 minutes and 13 seconds when they drafted off of a
runner in front of them.
Ben: And they also found that when they told them to rate how hard
they worked on a 1-20 scale, even though they ran faster, they
rated the drafting effort as a 13 whereas when they weren’t
drafting it was rated as a 20. So basically they ran faster at a lower
rating of perceived exertion when they were running behind
somebody. So maybe it’s that the person was breaking the wind,
not the way that you think, but literally breaking the wind for
them, and maybe and the research talks about this in the study,
the fact that you’re simply able to pace a little bit better when
you’re trying to keep up with the person in front of you. But
ultimately, kinda getting close up to the person who’s in front of
you and literally running with them almost step per step, just a
couple of feet behind them, can actually be a pretty good strategy
in a competitive running event or a triathlon, or any other effort
for which you wanna keep up with somebody or lower your rating
of perceived exertion, or run faster.
Brock: Especially if you’ve got a killer head wind!
Ben: That’s right!
Brock: That makes it more comfortable as well!
Ben: And speaking of running, I’m going to link to one of the funniest
things that I’ve seen this week on the internet when it comes to
running. And that is the Oatmeal’s Dos and Don’ts of Running
Your First Marathon.
Brock: Nice! I love the Oatmeal.
Ben: The Oatmeal’s one of my favorite websites for comics at the
oatmeal.com and I’ll link to this specific cartoon. But it’s all of the
do’s and don’ts. They’re pretty funny, like this one – Do let those
pre-race jitters fly. Start out at a completely impractical pace. This
will demoralize other runners into quitting early, and you’ll be
called marathon champion at Mile 2. Let me see…
Brock: That’s happened to me several times.
Ben: Here’s a good one – “Do delude yourself into thinking there is
anything enjoyable about eating energy gels.” And then it shows a
guy eating an energy gel and saying “This tastes like boob milk
from a cyborg!” Here’s another good one that will be able to
empathize with whoever ran a triathlon or marathon or 5K. “Do
not stop running when getting a drink at an aid station. By
enduring the sprint choke, you could shave 3, possibly 4 seconds
off your 5 plus hour finish time. Marathon success does not come
from training or perseverance; it comes from water boarding
yourself at aid stations.” I love what they say at the end. Here’s a
good one that we’ve all seen also. “Do end on a high note. When
you see the finish line, start sprinting like a coked out orangutan.
No one will ever suspect that you walked-jogged the previous 25,
26 miles.” I love it. And it goes on and on. There’s a lot of really
good ones in there. But if you want a good chuckle today, go check
out the Oatmeal’s Dos and Don’ts. We’ll link to that over at
Brock: We should probably give a little bit of an explicit warning if you’re
easily offended by language, you may not wanna go and see it. It’s
not super foul, but the Oatmeal does get a little (inaudible)
Ben: Yeah! It does tend to have colorful language. So, and then finally
an interesting article to flip a complete 180 and delve back into
science, biohacksblog.com had a really interesting article on how
something called the resistance starch can not only help to kinda
repopulate your gut flora and help to stabilize your appetite and
slow blood sugar release, and we’re talking about things like green
bananas and potato starch and plantains and things of that
nature, but it may actually also make you smarter. And the reason
for that, and this is gonna get a little bit geeky, so my apologies in
advance, time to put our propeller hats back on and maybe even
our white lab coats and what’s that thing you out in your white lab
coat pocket that makes you…
Brock: The pencil protector? Pocket protector?
Ben: Yes, the pocket protector. Let’s put our pocket protectors on. So
basically, butyrate is a short-chain fatty acid and it’s a short chain
fatty acid that gets increased in your gut when you consume these
things like half-ripe bananas, like green bananas or like potato
starch or potatoes that have been cooked and then cooled. And
what happens is that butyrate inhibits something called histone
deacelytase. That’s HDAC, we’ll abbreviate it as.
And what that is is that’s an enzyme that has a specific action of
removing acetyl groups from histones. So, and I warned you we’re
gonna get geeky on this one.
Brock: Yeah! I’m scratching my head.
Ben: But basically, in short what that does is when that HDAC activity
goes up, you get increased expression of what are called
neuroplasticity genes in your brain which are going to enhance
your ability to learn and enhance cognitive performance but
there’s also evidence that when you inhibit HDAC there’s reduced
risk of Alzheimer’s disease and the formation of a lot of these
neurofibrillary tangles that can cause Alzheimer’s. So what this
means is that the consumption of resistance starches or the
inclusion of resistance starches in the diet by increasing butyrate
in the gut can actually make you smarter. Now you can also – if
you don’t like the gas that you may experience when you consume
resistance starches, there are other things out there. And this
article at biohacksblog.com that we’ll link to in the show notes
goes into them, but there are things like sodium butyrate, and
acetyl-L-carnitine and some other things that you can actually get
in supplemental form and perhaps experiment with to see if you
notice an improvement in cognitive performance from this
formation of butyrate in your gut. Now the other thing that you
can get butyrate from is of course butter. So you can include some
grass-fed butter in your diet as well. I’m personally a fan of kinda
taking the natural approach. I eat small amounts of fiber
throughout the day. I eat a lot of green vegetables. I do some
potato starches and rice –based starches occasionally with dinner
after a workout. But I’m not a huge fan of doing something
unnatural. We talked about the potato diet last week. And it sure
it’s a biohack or whatever but it’s just one of those things that’s
just exhausting when it comes to trying to follow this strict diet to
enhance cognitive performance versus just working vegetable-
based fibers and maybe a little bit of unripe fruit here and there
into your diet. I think you could get some pretty good butyrate
and gut flora expression that can help with cognitive performance.
Brock: You know, unknowingly, I made myself a little bit of a thing like
this for breakfast this morning. I chopped up a green banana,
fried it up in some butter, some grass-fed butter, with a couple
eggs. That’s my breakfast.
Ben: Actually, that’s a perfect example of a way that you could increase
butyrate. You can increase or get a lot of the benefits of egg which
we’ll talk about later in the podcast when it comes to cognitive
performance. And that’s natural, right? You’re not…
Brock: And delicious!
Ben: …cooking and cooling a potato and having five potatoes for
breakfast or something like that. So, I love that green banana fried
in butter, with a little bit of eggs. Perfect! Thank you, Brock!
Brock: So something super cool just happened to the Rockstar Triathlete
Ben: Yeah! So for the past three years, I’ve been dumping articles and
audios and videos along with another coach down in Florida into
our online school for triathletes called the Rockstar Triathlete
Academy. And it was something that you paid for each month to
be able to access out entire protected vault of videos and audios
and articles. And we decided that rather than charging people a
monthly membership to go in and access all of these content, we
just switched it up so you could just buy a lifetime access pass and
get access to all of it. So there is no longer any monthly fee to
access any of that stuff, it’s all just - you get in for one time
purchase - it’s $97 and it’s actually a ton - it’s literally three years
worth of triathlon training content and it’s everything from how to
put on or take off a wet suit as quickly as possible to how to
choose a triathlon bike and what questions to ask your bike shop
to all sorts of strategies. How to run uphill. How to run downhill.
So it’s actually a lot of stuff. I’m pretty dang proud of everything
we have in there actually.
Brock: Yeah! It’s pretty good!
Ben: We’ve literally got hundreds of interviews with pro triathletes and
coaches and stuff like that. So that’s over at
Brock: So what about all us champs who got in a couple of years ago and
have been paying monthly? What happens to us?
Ben: You just stand, you don’t pay anything. You just stay in and you
just, you aren’t charged anything anymore, ever.
Ben: So, there you go! So rockstartriathlete.com, check that out. And
then speaking of triathlon, one of the quick thing that I wanted to
mention - and by the way for our new listeners, this is not a
triathlon podcast per se, for triathletes, we’ve been talking about
endurance and marathon and stuff like that, but I just don’t
wanna scare our new listeners away thinking…
Brock: Yeah! We’ll be getting into some very non-sport related stuff
Ben: You don’t have to be an Ironman triathlete to listen to this. But
basically the Ironman Sports Medicine Conference for those of
you who are listening in who are doctors, physical therapists,
chiropractic docs, you wanna go check out the Super Bowl of
triathlon down on the Big Island this year in Kona, and you also
are interested in getting continuing education credits at the
Ironman Sports Medicine Conference, I’m going to be speaking
down there on Defying the Norms of Sports Nutrition. So I will
put a link in the show notes over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/287
where you can go check out the Ironman Sports medicine
Conference in October during Ironman Hawaii and go hang out
on the Big Island. So check that out. We’ll be talking about this
more probably next week but not only myself will be in Hawaii,
Brock is probably gonna be there doing some coverage for
Ben: So it’s gonna be some - a pretty good time so if you happen to be
in Kona in October, then check that out. We’ll link to that in the
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Listener Q and A:
Andrew: Hi, Ben! How you’ve been? My name’s Andrew and I’m a big fan
of your podcasts and listen regularly in the U.K. A quick question
please regarding eggs and specifically the healthy cooking of eggs.
I’m on a hypertrophy diet, I need 4 eggs everyday for breakfast
usually fried in coconut oil. I prefer to eat my eggs scrambled but
I’m reading and hearing a lot that scrambling introduces oxygen
which in conjunction with the heat of cooking oxidizes the
cholesterol leaving free radicals detrimental to health. What are
your views, please? All the best!
Brock: So first of all, we should probably address what is a hypertrophy
Ben: A hypertrophy diet is a diet that I’m guessing is designed for
Brock: This is so, - so specifically targeting the growth of muscles.
Ben: The growth of muscle, that’s right! So muscle growth diet. And
incidentally, not to put Andrew on the spot here, but I should
know that you don’t need to eat a high protein diet to build
muscle. And there is zero evidence that eating anything more than
0.7 grams per pound of body weight of protein is going to help
you build any additional amount of muscle. So what that means is
once you exceed about 30% or so of your daily total calorie intake
from protein, you’re not gonna get any extra muscle building
effect, and you’re probably just gonna make your kidneys have to
work a little bit harder to deal with all the metabolic by-product of
Brock: And I’m guessing that unless Andrew is the size of Andre The
Giant, he probably doesn’t need four eggs every single day.
Ben: Maybe. It depends how much protein you’re eating the rest of the
day if you’re having fish with lunch and steak with dinner, then
four eggs in the morning might be a little much. I personally have
about 20 grams or so of whey protein with breakfast in my green
smoothie and so he’s having a little bit more than that. He’s
probably having closer to 35 grams from 4 eggs. But still, it kinda
depends on your protein intake the rest of the day.
But on to Andrew’s question. What is the best way to eat eggs? I
personally like to crack them against my head and let the yolk run
down my face and then kinda lick it off my face as it runs down. I
like to leave that stickiness on there for a little while, too.
Brock: It’s good for your hair, I hear, if you crack it on the top of your
head and just let it roll through your hair.
Ben: Shiny hair gives me that Pantene shampoo look as I shake my hair
Brock: Who needs mousse when you got eggs in your hair?
Ben: Smile slightly at the camera. You like those eggs, don’t you?
Ben: So the best way to eat eggs, first of all as far as this oxidation of
cholesterol in eggs, it doesn’t harm eggs to scramble eggs or cook
eggs. That does not oxidize the cholesterol in eggs. The reason
that that has become a concern among folks who are setting up on
eggs is the fact that it is possible to oxidized the cholesterol in
eggs but that happens when you powderize eggs. During
commercial processing when eggs get forced up a tiny hole at high
temperatures and high pressure to create the kind of powdered
egg products that say like a cafeteria might use or a hotel might
use, the actual powdered eggs, that is the type of process that will
oxidize the cholesterol in eggs. It’s highly unlikely that just
heating eggs naturally during a scrambling process is gonna do
much in terms of oxidation. Now let’s just say that lipid oxidation
and damaging of the fats would occur when you subject
something like an egg yolk to heat, well you need to consider is
that egg yolks have a lot of vitamin E in them and vitamin E is
there to prevent oxidation and vitamin E is very good at
preventing oxidation. So that’s just a reason to - if you are gonna
eat eggs, get pastured eggs because the yolks of pastured eggs
have about 4 times the amount of vitamin E that you’re gonna
find in standard egg yolk. So use a pastured egg. The vitamin E in
that is gonna help with oxidation anyways and ultimately don’t
worry too much. I like to cook my eggs on low to medium heat just
to play things on the safe side anyways. But it’s really the
powdered egg products where eggs are getting sprayed, dried and
forced through tiny holes at obscenely high temperatures and
pressures in factories to powderize them for processed foods.
That’s where you have to worry about oxidation of cholesterol
from eggs. So..
Brock: Then they have to worry about all the stuff that’s just being mixed
with when it’s reconstituted as well. It’s usually some kind of
Ben: Yeah! So as far as eggs go, I’m definitely a fan of eggs. There are
some people that think that they’re allergic to eggs first of all. And
I think that in most cases, that’s bull. And the reason for that is
that they’ve done a study that found that anybody who took one of
these popular IgG allergy test and found that they were sensitive
to eggs and specifically that means that they tested positive for
what’s called the albumin-specific IgG level which is the type of
protein that you find in egg whites, well what they found was that
every single subject that they put into this study tested positive for
this IgG level for egg whites whether they had active allergies,
whether they had resolved egg allergies, or whether they had no
egg allergies at all. And what the paper concluded was that IgG
responses to egg whites are probably just a completely normal
physiological response to a protein that you are frequently
ingesting. So basically if you eat eggs a lot, if you take one of these
food allergy tests, it’ll tell you that you’re allergic to eggs. So the
only time that you might not test positive to an IgG test for eggs
would be if you just don’t really eat eggs much at all. So the only
thing that would convince me that someone who tested positive
for an egg allergy was actually allergic to eggs was if it was
accompanied by inflammation. So if you test for example C-
reactive protein or what’s called HS-CRP, or you test- there’s
another test that you can do for cytokines, inflammatory
cytokines, or you get acne or achy joints or a bunch of GI upset
and bloating and all of these indicators…
Brock: Or like me when I was a little kid, if I got some egg whites, it
would make my face swell up like a potato, you couldn’t even see
Ben: Yeah! My nephew has to go to the hospital if he eats eggs. That’s
an egg allergy. That’s an egg intolerance. Just a basic blood test
that tells that you’ve got allergens circulating in your bloodstream
against egg whites, all that can mean is that you’re just eating a lot
of eggs. And that’s not an issue. So first of all, as far as egg
allergies go, I just wanted to mention that while we’re talking
Brock: We sort of went off topic there but that’d be interesting but really
Ben: Yeah! Eggs are extremely micronutrient –dense. I’m a huge fan of
eating them as far as the best way to eat them, first of all, if you’re
gonna scramble them or fry them, I wouldn’t use coconut oil
specially if you’re using a good extra virgin unrefined coconut oil
which is what I recommend, because coconut oil actually has a
pretty low smoke point. We cook our eggs typically in an avocado
Brock: Bacon fat.
Ben: …sometimes in a little bit of butter or bacon fat, but that’s actually
much better than coconut oil. Another really good one that you
can cook eggs in is macadamia oil or olive oil. Both of those also
have higher smoke points than coconut oil. I know coconut oil…
Brock: Really? Olive oil!
Ben: …tastes fantastic. Yeah, not extra virgin olive oil, just regular olive
oil. So olive oil, macadamia nut oil, or avocado oil, would all be
better choices or just bacon fat for cooking your eggs in. So I
wouldn’t use coconut oil if you’re gonna scramble or fry it. Now
you can also simply drop an egg into a smoothie and you can use a
raw egg if you do something like that and that’s not that big of an
issue, you’ve got a bigger risk of dying in a plane crash than you
do of getting salmonella from raw egg. And if you’re really
concerned about it, just rinse the outside of the egg before you
crack it with a little bit of oregano or vinegar and water solution
because that’s where a lot of the potential…
Ben: …contaminants might be playing around, that’s on the outside of
the egg, not the inside of the eggs. Now, the other thing is that
when you eat a raw egg white, you find a lot of information
floating around out there that raw egg whites might bind the
biotin which is the valuable component that’s found in egg yolk
and prevent the absorption of that. Well, biotin begins to break
down as an egg is cooked so if you’re very worried about that, then
don’t eat the raw egg, just switch to cooking the eggs if you’re
really worried about biotin but I wouldn’t. It’s not a huge, huge
concern of mine at all. Finally, what I should mention is that I’ve
been seeing a lot of recipes out there for egg coffee. Have you seen
Brock: I have, yeah! Yeah, Mark Sisson had a good one.
Ben: Yeah! Basically you take coffee and you mix it up, they
recommend just mixing it and put egg yolks rather than egg
whites as the egg yolks is where the good micronutrients reside
anyways. But yeah, basically you make coffee and then you add
scrambled egg yolks, some cinnamon, some turmeric, some
vanilla, little bit of butter in there, and you just basically mix it all
up and you can throw that in a blender, it makes like this frothy
egg yolk mixture but it’s supposed to actually be pretty good. I
haven’t personally tried, have you?
Brock: I haven’t, no. I’ve been tempted to, but I just - I like mine cooked,
the way I like them.
Ben: So scramble them, toss ‘em raw in smoothies…
Brock: Make some ice cream out of it, with some coconut milk.
Ben: Fry ‘em. Put them in coffee. Honestly, Andrew, I don’t really care
how you eat your eggs. I just wouldn’t eat them powdered. And I’d
choose something other than coconut oil to cook them in.
Gelatin: Hey, Ben and Brock! I’m trying to consider some strategies for
healing gut permeability besides bone broth and I’m mainly
wanting to compare three products. There’s the Great Lakes
Gelatin, Great Lakes Hydrolyzed Collagen, and Dave Asprey’s
Upgraded Collagen. So for the purpose of healing gut
permeability, is it much better to take Great Lakes Gelatin or
Great Lakes Hydrolyzed Collagen? What would be the differences
here if there are? Also, Dave states that unlike gelatin which is
damaged by heat processing, his collagen leaves the peptide intact
and provides more collagen than bone broth. Do you think that
the upgraded collagen will provide much more of the benefit?
Thanks for any help you guys can provide.
Ben: Well, you know what the ultimate question here is, Brock?
Brock: What’s that?
Ben: Which is better for getting nice, supple lips if you’re going to get
plastic surgery, gelatin or collagen?
Brock: Hmm, yeah, the big kissable Angelina Jolie kind of lips.
Ben: Yeah! I love those huge lips, yeah!
Brock: She sure looks like a duck face all the time.
Ben: Duck face. Big lips. Mwah! Gelatin versus collagen.
Brock: That’s the most attractive moment of the entire podcast, ladies
Ben: I think this is kinda confusing to some folks. So, first of all, the
main difference when you look at gelatin versus collagen is just
the processing. So we’ve talked about Great Lakes Gelatin before
which is the brand of gelatin you can get off Amazon, it’s got the
red label on it. And then they’ve also got Great Lakes, that’s this
one with the green label that’s called just Collagen. And you’ll
notice if you’ve used this that the Collagen will tend to basically
dissolve in even a cold liquid pretty easily. So you can mix it in
drinks and shakes and smoothies or ice cream or put a tablespoon
in pretty much anywhere and it dissolves, and it doesn’t clump or
produce this gelatinized effect.
Whereas gelatin, unless you put it into something hot, generally
what happens is as soon as it cools down, it makes a jello-like
effect. That’s why they call it gelatin.
Brock: Does it taste like strawberries?
Ben: J-E-L-L-O. So…
Brock: Does it taste like the moon?
Ben: From a qualitative standpoint thus, they are basically the
difference is that when you’re making collagen, let’s look at Great
Lakes for example, so what Great Lakes does is they use grass-fed
beef and they actually source grass-fed beef hides for their raw
material for their gelatin products, And the way that gelatin and
collagen is made is you split the hides and the hides is the area of
an animal that’s under the hair where all the collagen is. I know
this sounds really nasty but for any of you who use collagen
whether it’s Dave Asprey’s Upgraded Collagen or Great Lakes
Collagen or whatever, that’s where it’s coming from.
Brock: That’s what you’re eating.
Ben: So if you’re vegan or vegetarian, just know that it’s an animal
hide. And what happens is for something like Great Lakes gelatin,
what they do is they out that hide into what’s called an alkaline
solution and they keep it in there for a number of days and that
helps the material to get broken down into smaller pieces of skin
which is again kinda gross to think about. So now we’ve got all
this animal skin and it gets acid-washed and then put in these
little cooking kettles and that separates the talo from the skin
from the collagen. And then what happens is they filter the
collagen and they put it through what’s called the vacuum
evaporator. And that’s actually a pretty delicate process. It’s a
little bit above 200 degrees. And it goes through this vacuum
evaporator. And then after the collagen evaporates, they actually
put it to this sanitation process at about 240, 250 degrees to kill
off any bacteria and at that point, that is pure collagen. And then
what they do from there is they take the collagen and turn it into
what’s called collagen hydrolysate. And collagen hydrolysate gets
heated to even higher temperatures with this process to reduce
what’s called the molecular weight and that cleaves the amino
acid bonds that’s called hydrolysis or using water at a high
temperature to cleave all these bonds. And then it’s spray-dried,
just like the eggs we were talking about earlier, at really high
temperatures and pressures to be made into a dry powder. Now if
you wanna go on and you want to have it become gelatin instead
of collagen rather than putting it through that entire process that I
just described, the hydrolysis and the cleaving and the spray-
drying, instead what happens is it gets sent into something called
a votator. Ever heard of a votator before?
Brock: I have not.
Ben: A votator is one of the most commonly used food apparatuses in
the US and it’s kinda standard equipment in a lot of food labs and
it’s basically – it allows for something to emulsify and kinda
agitate it. It’s basically almost like a very fancy way to stir things
Brock: Is it like one of those paint shakers?
Ben: Kinda similar and kinda looks like that, too. But basically what
happens is the collagen gets sent to a votator. It’s chilled, it’s
solidified, it’s pumped on to a drying belt, and that’s gelatin. So
that’s the difference between gelatin and hydrolysis. The primary
difference being that collagen rather than being broken down by
hydrolysis and heat and spray-drying, it just gets cooled. So
technically the gelatin undergoes a lot less processing than the
hydrolysis when we’re looking at something like Great Lakes for
example as a product. And when you’re looking at something like
the Upgraded Collagen, Dave Asprey’s Upgraded Collagen, well it
actually is true that that stuff is a little - it’s more expensive but
it’s a little bit healthier for you than the Great Lakes Collagen
Hydrolysate because the Upgraded Collagen is broken down via
an enzymatic process, they use enzymes rather than using a high
amount of heat in the process that I talked about for hydrolysis.
So technically you get a product that has a little less oxidation and
it’s gone through a little less heat damaging. So you get a little bit
better protein in that sense. And the whole reason that you’d
wanna use any of this stuff anyways is because of what we talked
about in last week’s podcast. You could go back and listen to
podcast number 286. But we talked about glycine and how so
many of the proteins that we eat these days such as just basic
meat from steak it doesn’t include the high amounts of glycine
and lysine and proline that you get in collagen and gelatin, and
things like bone broth and bone marrow.
And of course if you can you should eat bone broth or bone
marrow as a staple of your diet rather than with collagen or
gelatin just because it doesn’t have any of the processing, it
doesn’t need you to go through this enzymatic processing,
hydrolysis, any amount of heating whatsoever, etc. but you can
exactly put a vat of bone broth into your luggage and when you
have a plane flight to Florida and it is sometimes not something
that you might be able to go out of your way on a Sunday evening.
And so if you just need to throw somethin’ or stir somethin’ into
your smoothie really quickly to allow for benefits for your hair,
your skin, or your muscle or your cartilage or your ligaments or
your blood cells, all of which collagen can help with, that’s where
it can come in handy just add some collagen powder like some
collagen hydrolysed powder to a smoothie or a shake or if you
want to – you know, like my wife will make little popsicles and
stuff for the kids using gelatin. So that’s where these powders
would come in handy and I’d say honestly if you wanted to really
choose the least process form of collagen hydrolysate, go with
upgraded collagen. If you don’t wanna go with that and you don’t
mind having the gelatin that clumps at lower temperatures, then
get that Great Lakes unflavored gelatin stuff and we’ll put links to
both of those in the show notes over at
bengreenfieldfitness.com/287 but of course I can’t emphasize
enough that the best thing that you can do for your body
ultimately is that you make your own home made bone broth. I
think there’s a website where we can order bone broth. It’s like – I
think it’s thebrothery.com. Yeah! To me that sounds like a porn
site or something... brothery.com. Let me check here...
thebrothery.com they ship anywhere in the continental United
States and it’s home-made bone broth. So, there you go
Jenn: Hi Ben, my name is Jenn. I had a baby at the end of May, he’s 6
week old now. So, you can imagine I am up every 3 hours feeding
him whether it’s day or night. So, I was wondering if there’s
anything I can do or supplement I can take to help the little sleep
that I do get to be more restorative and likewise if there’s anything
I can do or take during the day to have more energy. I also have a
2 year old so taking that while the baby nap is really not an
option. Thanks for your help. Love the show!
Ben: Jenn, just sleep. Children are very hardy; they will survive when
left along for long periods of time. You know, babies will actually
– they’ll become more tough, more resilient when you just leave
them alone. So, go get your sleep, lock yourself in your room, put
your white noise app on, let your baby cry... (laughs)
Brock: I am – if you’re wondering what I’m doing- I’m phoning child
services right now with the other hand.
Ben: Yeah, seriously. Even though I’m definitely a fan of the whole like
unstructured free play with kids, there’s a serious amount of very
valuable attachment that occurs when children are young and you
do need to get up and take care of them at multiple times and it is
exhausting and the problem with of course being a new mother is
that when you look at a lot of the let’s say the hacks that we talked
about in this podcast like passion flower, magnesium and herbs
and pulsed electro-magnetic field therapy and all these things that
you can do. Well, first of all there is limited research on a lot of
those things and breast milk and how much of that actually winds
up in there for somebody’s hacks like pulsed electro-magnetic
field and stuff like that. Not a lot of evidence on that type of thing
and its effect on babies so what I think that Jenn should focus on
are natural ways to get more sleep and have more energy. And I
will put a link in the show notes to the two part article series that I
written on getting better sleep, beating insomnia, managing jet
lag. I’ve written pretty extensively about that on the podcast and I
would definitely check that out if I were Jenn. But a few of the
other things that you can do just to ensure – whether you’re a new
mom or not if you just wanna use natural means without pulling
out supplements or fancy bio hacks to get better sleep or to have
more energy, I’ll give you some of my best tips.
Brock: This doesn’t include Quaaludes and red wine then?
Ben: No. No benzodiazepines or Phenibut. By the way, have you ever
tried Phenibut for sleep?
Brock: No! I actually don’t know what that is.
Ben: It’s a sleep aid that actually used a lot of times in military
situations where you gotta get quick periods of deep sleep, wake
up and be able to operate at a high capacity.
I actually experimented with it a couple of times this month. It’s
very interesting, you get this deep lucid dreaming and you wake
up and you just like pop up out of bed and you’re good to go. The
problem is it’s highly addictive and some people report beginning
to experience significant mental disturbances during sleep at
night like disturbed lucid dreaming with long term use but I just
experimented a couple of times about 500 mg of Phenibut. I did
definitely sleep like a rock, take about an hour or two before you
go to bed at night but be careful with that stuff.
Brock: I wanna try some of that hemp oil.
Ben: And Jenn, don’t take Phenibut or feed it to your baby although
hemp oil – that’s another interesting one. Yeah, listen to the
podcast that we did if you’re listening in, listen to the podcast that
we did on hemp oil extract. Not marijuana per se with the mind-
altering effects of marijuana which I know I’m against. It’s just
something that may not be practical for children or for new
mothers but yeah, check out that episode, it’s interesting. So, off
that segue now and back to Jenn, first of all Jenn – some of the
big tips I can give you. Get the room cool that you’re sleeping in.
The ideal range for the human body for adequate deep sleep is 65-
70 degrees. That’s one of the first things that I do when I travel
and I want deep sleep. I log into my hotel room and I turn down
the temperature to 66, that’s my perfect sleeping temp and if it
won’t go lower than 66, I call downstairs and they send
engineering up to adjust my thermometer because some hotels
just to save on money will keep it from going lower than like 68-
70 and it just like a quick fix like they turn on the screwdriver and
they make it able to go down lower than that. I keep the room at
66 for a nice cool sleeping. The next thing is if you’re able to use
your bedroom for sleep and sex only, that’s ideal. So eliminate
tv’s, laptops, electronics clutter, all of that stuff. It’s just basic
sleep hygiene and I know that this might sound like boring and
easy stuff but it does make a big, big difference when you make
that decision not to take your laptop into your bedroom or only to
allow your phone in your bedroom if it’s in airplane mode. It’s the
little things that add up when it comes up to natural sleep and
deeper amounts of sleep. Now of course Jenn doesn’t have to
worry about alcohol and caffeine but of course both of those can
affect sleep as well or keep sleep from being more restorative so
be careful with that. Get yourself a nice – I like the sleep master
sleep mask because it covers both your ears and your eyes, keeps
things completely dark and you’d put that on while your asleep
Jenn and then when you have to get up and you need to take care
of the baby or open the refrigerator or tool around with the lights
on in the house, do two things: first of all, wear some blue light
blocking glasses, easy to find on a website like low blue lights or
like the gunnar glasses. You can get off of the gunnar website,
there’s any number of blue light blocking glasses that you can get
but then also consider in your room or the light that you use as
you’re up and around during the night. Using primarily light from
the red light wave spectrum so you can get red light bulbs or red
light flash lights or you can get red light infrared light therapy
devices things like this off of Amazon and you can use those as the
light source that you’re using at night. And that’s what I use. I’ve
got a little red light bulb, cost me $10 off of Amazon that I keep
next to my bed at night. When I need to get up during to use the
bathroom, need to get a few things done and reading in my bed
before I go to sleep at night, it’s only red light. I don’t have the
light in my bedroom on at all, I just put that little external red
light on and then if I need to get up and go to the kitchen where I
don’t have that red light or I need to open the refrigerator to have
my midnight snack of ice cream, I wear my blue light blocking
Brock: You don’t carry a little candle with you like Ebenezer Scrooge
Ben: I use the blue light glasses because those actually remove all the
calories from the ice cream. People are aware of that little
Brock: Yes of course. We don’t know in fact.
Ben: Okay so, a few other things that I’d recommend to you as far as
sleep goes. Little things like: deep breathing or meditation as well
as journaling, all those little woo woo things. Those can definitely
help you relax more quickly and get you into deep sleep more
quickly. And so something as simple as closing your eyes and
doing some box breathing like a nice four count in, four count
hold, four count out for a couple of minutes after you’ve got
Brock: Box beating does not involve a box by the way.
Ben: No, you do not need to sit inside a little cardboard box as you do
Brock: Or don’t hold the box in front of your face.
Ben: Oh yes or anything like that. And then as far energy goes during
the day, a few super duper natural things that you can do: one
would be called water. I’m a big fan of a huge glass of cold water
when you wake up in the morning and then if you need – even if
you’re unable to say like jump into a cold showers, splash cold
water on your face which are two great ways to get rid of lethargy,
you’re being groggy. You can just drink a big glass of ice cold
water and I’m a big fan of that for naturally boosting your energy.
The other thing is sunlight or blue light exposure at some point
during the day can help out quite a bit so you can – just like you
can get red light devices, you can get blue light devices that emit
blue light at certain points throughout the day such as in the
morning when you get up; if you’re living in a gray area like
Seattle or Portland or Siberia or Alaska…
Brock: …or Winnipeg.
Ben: The other thing that you could do is get out in the sunlight when
you are up. Let say you’ve gotten four hours of sleep ‘cause you’ve
been up and down with the baby, you wake up its, whatever, let’s
say it’s 6:30 AM, you’re tired but you gotta get on with your day.
You gotta take care of that 2 year old, you need to get up and get
ready to take care of the baby once they wake up. Get out in the
sunlight, just go outside, stand out there in your bare feet for a
few minutes as you drink your glass of cold water and you can
skip the coffee, you can skip the caffeine, skip the energy drinks,
skip the smart drugs, and just use some of those natural
techniques and you know I know that we talked about the herbs
and the drugs and the electronics and stuff like that on this
podcast but I mean some of those things just keep in the room
cool, relaxing, de-stressing, having good sleep hygiene, drinking
some cold water, getting some sunlight exposure, those are some
natural ways that you could get better sleep and have more energy
and those are great, too, because they’re not gonna affect your
kids, they’re not gonna affect your breast milk. So, those are some
of the things that I do.
Joe: Hey Ben, I have a question. I have a new personal trainer and he’s
suggesting that I use the foam roller thing and it hurts when I
foam roll. He says that after a while it won’t hurt anymore and the
benefit will outweigh the pain I’m going through foam rolling with
the foam rollers so I want your opinion on it. Thank you.
Brock: Joe, it does get easier.
Ben: It does get easier Joe.
Brock: It really, really does. It gets worst before I get seizure or it gets
better but it does get better.
Ben: Yeah, you’re hurt like a mother before it gets easier Joe. It just
Brock: And you look like an idiot while you’re getting use to it too. It’s
just stashing out on the floor, falling off your foam roller.
Ben: As you grimace and hump that foam roller. Foam rolling is
something that I personally do at least twice a week. Brock is one
of the athletes that I coach. He knows that foam rolling appears as
a requirement on his schedule at least a couple of times a week
and that’s typically a full body foam rolling session. We don’t even
mess around with those sissy foam rollers that you see at the gym.
We go straight to this one called the Rumble Roller which has all
these sharp pointy ridges coming off it which just make it all the
Brock: It’s actually made of iron; it’s not foam at all. It’s an iron roller.
Ben: Yeah, yeah and if you push the little button on the side, little
needles come out of the ridges just to enhance that effect and
make you all the more tough. So basically, it starts with trigger
points. Trigger points are these knots that formed in your muscles
and a common example of that would be like your IT band on the
outside of your leg. If you have a trigger point in that muscle and
you’re foam rolling your IT band, it causes this pain and
discomfort, kinda radiate up your hip or even all the way down to
your leg while you’re rolling, you know, it will sometimes
radiate literally like down to your feet and the reason that you’re
doing the foam rolling is to get rid of a lot of these trigger points
to release them. Now, when you just stretch, that doesn’t release
muscle tightness, it doesn’t release trigger points and when if you
imagine like a rope with a knot tied into it and then you stretch
that rope, all it does is it creates tension and it makes that not
even tighter. So, what foam rolling does is it breaks up muscle
knots with direct pressure and with direct tension. So you get – it
resumes basic normal blood flow oxygen delivery, nutrient
delivery that would normally be interrupted to a muscle tissue as
well as allowing for increase range of emotion that you normally
wouldn’t get because of the formation of those knots. When you
compress something it’s basically just like tenderizing meat, just
like taking out a steak and hitting it with a hammer, rolling with
the rolling pin, it’s gonna be more tender and more supple but
that process does hurt because trigger points are these knotted
areas of connective tissue and fascial adhesions and there’s nerve
fibers that are getting hit and there’s…
…pressure your body – your body interprets pressure in a very
similar way as it interprets pain. These nociceptors are stimulated
along with pressure receptors in very similar way so you can feel
pain and pressure as the same sensation often. The more foam
rolling that you do and this is gonna sound really simple but the
fewer trigger points you’re gonna have the more connective
tissues suppleness you’re gonna have and the less it’s gonna hurt
as time goes on but you will have periods of time that you go
through in your life where no matter how much you foam roll,
you’ll finish a long run and you’re gonna have fascial adhesion
and you’re gonna have knots, you’re gonna have trigger points
that simply are gonna hurt no matter what. I have certain areas in
my body that I know even though I foam roll twice a week, if I’ve
done a tough workout they’re always gonna hurt usually it’s the
outside of my hips, my piriformis and the front of my leg a little
bit. Sometimes the underside of my armpit if I’ve been swimming
a lot but...
Brock: In study, even hard work out like after a day of sitting on the desk,
working on a computer, it really hurts to roll out my shoulders
and my neck.
Ben: Yup, exactly and you’ll also need to consider that this is something
that you need to be in for the long run because it can take literally
a year and a half to two years to realign connective tissue and
realign fascia. That’s why, for example if you start weight training
and you stop your weight training program or you stop certain
exercises, you’re never gonna get very good at those specific
movements especially things like dead lifts and squats and
overhead presses. You have to have done those consistently in
your workout routine for a year and a half or two before your body
actually starts to become extremely efficient at those movements.
And it’s the same with something like fascial adhesions or fascial
quality. It takes a long time for fascia to realign and the longer
you’ve been beating up your body with things like running or
cycling or poor posture on your computer at work the longer it’s
gonna take to realign and re-train that fascia. So, foam rolling is
something that you’ll be in for the long haul but yes, it eventually
does to get a little bit easier to move over and around the foam
roller and eventually the general pain and general hurt the whole
time is replaced by a little bit more of a therapeutic feeling with a
few little grimaces here and there as you hit certain knots.
Ultimately what I do – if you go to
youtube.com/bengreenfieldfitness you will be able to type in foam
roller and you’ll see some of my key foam rolling exercises, me
demonstrating them. The specific moves that I like to do is kinda
like staples in my program. My protocol is pretty much like I foam
roll twice a week for 15-20 minutes, when I travel I travel with a
lacrosse ball and because I travel about one to two weeks for any
given month, I will use that period of time to hit deeper areas or
areas of the foam roller can’t get. When I get back home, I get
back into the foam rolling practice but I just used basically those
two methods of deep tissue therapy. The reason it hurts is ‘cause
you’re releasing fascia and you’re hitting some of those knots and
it does get easier.
KJ: This is KJ from NJ. What is more sanitary- the water fountain or
the water faucet at the gym? A lot of people say you shouldn’t
drink out of the water fountain. What if I want to use the water
from the water faucet in the locker room, would that be better
from the sanitation standpoint? Love your show and will look
forward to your advice. Thanks!
Brock: KJ is definitely one of those guys who doesn’t put his mouth right
on the water fountain, I’m guessing.
Ben: I do, I literally get right down on that while – I like the metallic
Brock: Hmm, yeah. I like to pretend it’s a nipple.
Ben: Uhmm, yeah exactly. Yeah, that’s a little messed up. Maybe
Brock: Sorry about that.
Ben: ...Freudian issues going on there that you need to work out.
Brock: I shouldn’t have said that all.
Ben: So, they’ve actually looked at the sanitation and amounts of
bacteria on water fountains and come up with some shocking
amounts of bacteria like more bacteria than the surface of a toilet
seat when you’re looking at like the spigot at somebody’s fountain.
So what actually did in one study was – back in 2005, the
National Sanitation Foundation tested various areas around two
different elementary schools for bacteria content. They found that
the most bacteria-laden area in the entire school wasn’t the
bathroom but the water fountain. So the water fountain had 2.7
million bacteria cells per square inch which was like thousands
more than any other area they tested and that came in number
The toilet incidentally came in number eight. I’m not sure what all
was in between the water fountain and the toilet. I’m sure maybe
other children, books or the floor was probably mixed in there
somewhere but ultimately water fountain ruled as number one.
And then there was a more informal study that kinda hit the news
a few years ago as actually back in 2007 were this elementary
school student tested four different water fountains and one toilet
around the school using cotton swabs and petri dishes and it
kinda backed up the results from the National Sanitation
Foundation that show that the fountains had way more bacteria
than the toilets and the toilets were actually surprisingly clean.
Then there was one other study that was done where they looked
at supermarkets and looked at the floors of supermarkets. Then
they also tested parks and park sandboxes and what they found
was that water fountains in both parks as well as supermarkets
had more bacteria than the floors and the sandboxes. The
interesting thing here is that when you look at the actual water
itself and you test the water coming out of the fountain, it’s
relatively free of bacteria because the water comes out of that
spout in like this ark and that prevents it from actually touching
the spigot. When you look at a water cooler where the water goes
straight down and they’ve tested the water from water coolers that
actually has the higher bacterial content because typically people
put their water bottles or their glasses right up against that spigot
which is pouring downwards and it’s actually probably cleaned
less than the spigot of a water fountain and you get the most
bacteria in the actual water that you’re drinking from like an office
water cooler than you would from like an upward spouting water
fountain. So ultimately, I drink from the water fountain at the
gym. I don’t use that little water cooler that pours down into my
water bottle that a lot of gyms have nowadays. I use the water
fountain. I don’t wrap my mouth around the metallic spigot. I
make sure I let the water run for about 5 seconds before I start to
drink from the spout of water that’s coming out. Ultimately, I
don’t worry about it too much. There is this whole healthy hygiene
hypothesis to where - if we live life in a bubble we’re never getting
exposed to bacteria and our immune systems are never gonna
develop but ultimately even the water fountains still have a lot of
germs on them. The actual water itself is not that big of a deal.
You know what’s more annoying to me – this is like my pet peeve.
We’ve got two water fountains at our gym, you’ve got the normal
one and the one that’s low like the one that’s kinda sort of for kids
or short people or whatever. I walk up to the water fountain and
there will be a line of people waiting for the water fountain that’s
at normal height and nobody wants to bend down. Reminder –
this is at the freakin’ gym. Nobody wants to bend down and drink
from the short water fountain. Nobody wants to squat down at the
gym and drink from the lower water fountain. So...
Brock: Or taking the elevator at the gym...
Ben: Yeah, it’s nuts. That’s my big pet peeves. I’m just like –or I’ll be
drinking from the tall water fountain ‘cause I walk up and if I have
a choice I’ll go for the tall one if there’s no main line there and
people start to stand up in line behind me and give me these looks
like hurry up when the short water fountain is sittin’ right there.
So yeah, it’s my pet peeve, it’s my rant for the day. Drink from the
short fountain, people.
Brock: I get way more angry with the people who push the handicaps
wheelchair button on the doors when they’re clearly not handicap
or have any issues at all. That’s the ultimately lazy move.
Ben: Yes, yes that too.
Brock: They should be ashamed of themselves.
Ben: Although I use the handicap bathroom at airports because I go in
to those bathrooms and I do workouts in them and I am that guy
who is using the handicap bathroom for workouts.
Brock: That’s okay as long as there’s no handicap people waiting,
crossing their legs and dancing.
Ben: There has been one time where I walked out of the bathroom after
doing my push-ups and my squats and my jumping jacks, and
there was a lady there with her two kids in the stroller crying
giving me this really annoyed look ‘cause I came out of the
bathroom and was obviously a young fit dude using the handicap
bathroom at the airport and I felt bad for a little while but I still
Brock: Yeah, I’m sure you and the lady both got over it quite quickly.
Ben: Speaking of the handicap bathroom at the airports, we have a
swag to give out for people.
Brock: Yes and that’s very related.
Ben: Clue. How that segue actually works.
Brock: By the way, we got two emails now wanting to correct you. It’s
Ben: Segue. What did I say?
Ben: That’s because I read, I don’t actually talk to people. I just read so
I pronounce words in my head. For the longest time when I was
reading, I would read the word “misled” as “misled”. I talked to
people when I was in high school for the longest time and I would
use this word “misled”, I’ll be “He totally misled us”, “What do
you mean - misled?” and eventually I learn that it is actually
pronounced “misled” but that’s how bad I am with reading words
vs. saying them.
Brock: This is the danger of being anti-social.
Ben: Uhmm, yeah okay, so segue. First of all, gear. You can support
this podcast if you go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/gear and for
$47 you get this awesome tech t-shirt – that’s not this big cotton
tent but an actual cool exercise t-shirt that looks good on you. It
makes your body looks better. You actually don’t need to exercise
by the way if you wear the Ben Greenfield fitness t-shirt. You just
put on the t-shirt and...
Brock: It’s extremely slimming!
Ben: Exactly. You can put on the t-shirt over a bikini and people will
tell you, you have an awesome body. It even does that. So, you
also get a guilt-free, BPA-free Ben Greenfield fitness water bottle
that you can drink eggs from and you get a sweet beanie. We by-
pass the hat and we went straight to the beanie which looks
Brock: Which you could store eggs in.
Ben: That’s right! So, you can get all that over at
bengreenfieldfitness.com/gear and support the show when you do
that and it does indeed support the show. We got to pay for
bandwidth, we got to pay for hosting fees and for $47 you get that
pack and you get awesome swag and you support the show. But
you also can get free swag just send to you if you leave a review on
iTunes and we read your review on the podcast. We have some
swag to give away right now to somebody who left us a review on
iTunes. So, you wanna dig in, Brock?
Brock: Yeah, it’s an incredibly short but sweet review this week by
Pagelpack. Pagelpack says...
Ben: Hmm, almost name for my kids, pagelpack. My wife calls me
Brock: Give me a pagelpack. Anyway, “Very informative podcast, I really
like how he takes the time to create a special webpage for each
podcast with links, notes, and Q and A answers”.
Ben: Yeah, well Brock and I actually tag team that. I’d like to take all
the credit for that. You know what, that’s what a lot of people I
think – if you’re listening in, you may not realize this but we go
through painstakingly long efforts to create enormously helpful
show notes for you and we link to each of those show notes with
the number for the podcast. So right now if you go to
bengreenfieldfitness.com/287, I’ve got everything from some of
the collagen links, to the foam roller, to my two-part series on
getting better sleep, to all the studies that we talked about, to the
cartoon on running, like we let you be super lazy. You just go
there and click away. Just click, click, click, click, click.
Brock: Just click to your heart’s content.
Ben: Clicking frenzy. That’s all over on the show notes so thank you.
Brock: And what’s even better if you wait a couple of weeks after the
show has been around for a while, you can go to those same show
notes and click on a link to a transcript of everything that we said.
Ben: That’s right! We take care of you – our valued listeners. So, check
that out and thank you Pagelpack. Email
Ben@bengreenfieldfitness.com and we’ll get a pack of swag out
for you to pack.
Brock: Oh! Pagelpack of swag!
Ben: Pack along with your pagels. I’m packin’, I’m packin’ a press of
Brock: As long as they’re gluten-free pagels.
Ben: Hmm, that’s right. So, the last thing that I wanted to mention
other than that is – I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago but I’m
gonna mention it again because it’s a podcast I’ve been diggin’
quite a bit recently. I don’t talk about a lot of other podcast on the
show because of course ours is the best but there’s another
podcast that’s a close second– it’s my friend Jordan’s Art of
Charm podcast and it’s not just about seducing women although I
think you can probably find a little bit of information on there
about seducing women.
Brock: ...and seducing men.
Ben: Sorry, my apologies to ladies listening in. I’m kinda joking. It’s
actually doesn’t have any kind of stuff on it at all. Just about the
name. It’s about how both men and women can be more charming
and it’s got a bunch of resources and practical tips and drills to do
things like manage relationships and network, and take your life
to the next level and pretty much every area except for health –
that’s where I come in. So, go check out the Art of Charm podcast,
it’s somewhere on iTunes. I let you take it from there but I bet you
can hunt it down with the information I’ve just given you. So Art
of Charm, check that out and go have some eggs.
Brock: Definitely! I need some eggs.
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