Ben Greenfield Podcast 248

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Ben Greenfield Podcast 248

  1. 1. Podcast #248 from http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2013/07/248-does- fish-oil-cause-prostate-cancer-is-milk-healthy-are-body-fat-scales-accurate/ [0:00:00] Introduction: In today’s episode of the Ben Greenfield fitness podcast: Does fish oil cause prostate cancer, Are body fat scales accurate, Is milk healthy, How to use a standing work station, What to eat before surgery, and How To Run Downhill. Welcome to the bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast. We provide you with premier exercise, nutrition, weight loss, triathlon, and wellness advice from the top fitness experts in the nation. So whether you’re an ironman triathlete, or you’re just trying to shed a few pounds, get ready for non-run-off-the-mill, cutting edge content from bengreenfieldfitness.com. Brock: Oh, Ben. You’re looking a little, shiny this morning. Ben: Shiny, shiny and new and I smell like a giant flavorful Italian pizza. Brock: Hmm. Ben: It’s my new gig. Actually, it’s not a new gig but we’re talking about, before the recording, so we might as well. ‘Cause I’ve been doing it for, like, two years. Umm, Terry Sullivan, one of my…. Brock: And I just noticed. Ben: One of my buddies, he’s a pro tri athlete down in Florida. He’s, like, big time in the, like, natural living, and like, you know, not exposing his body to artificial crap….. Brock: He’s the other guy from the Rockstar Tri Athlete Academy, right? Ben: Yeah, he’s my co-coach at the Rockstar Tri Athlete Academy. He smears his face with extra virgin olive oil. Umm, and I started doing it when, shortly after I met him. And it’s just, it’s just totally natural, super, kinda like, hypoallergenic way to moisturize your skin. And it’s got like vitamin A and vitamin E in it so when I’m
  2. 2. out riding my bike and stuff and getting exposed to sun and pollution and environmental hazards, you know, all the, all the cigarettes I smoke and the fast food I eat. Anyways, it helps with the skin, you can actually mix it with coconut oil, too. You can do like just like, get a bowl, put it on your kitchen counter and do like a mash, like a one to one blend of coconut oil and olive oil ‘cause the coconut oil if you have issues with like skin conditions like acne. It actually has some pretty cool antibacterial and antifungal properties and it helps to get rid of. Yeah, you mix coconut oil, olive oil, and you’ll smell like a giant Italian, I wonder….. Brock: A giant Mediterranean fellow? Nothing’s wrong with that. Ben: …yeah, kinda like a Mediterranean/Samoan ‘cause you got like a little coconut all over. Brock: I like it. Yeah, you got a little coconut in there. Ben: Oh, the ladies love it. Brock: Uhmm, yeah actually I spilt some of my MCT oil the other day like which is I know it’s a terrible sin, ‘cause that stuff’s kinda expensive. But I made the best of it and I like rubbed it all over my hands, and I still had some left, so I rubbed it on my legs, and I put some of that on my face, and I was so moist, it was awesome my skin just felt fantastic for the rest of the day. I don’t advocate doing that because of the cost but I can see why coconut oil and olive oil would work probably as well. Ben: Liquid gold and the show was brought to you by metrosexualmales.com. Brock: Hippie metrosexual males. News Flashes: Brock: If you want to know everything there is to know about lactic acid, oxo… Ohhhh, just can’t get it right. If you want to know everything there is to know about lactic acid, oxo…Ahhh I’m practicing that word so I can do this, oxo, oxolastate, is that how you say it?
  3. 3. Ben: Yeah. Brock: If you want to know everything there is to know about lactic acid, how to make yourself run longer and of course know everything there is to know about poop, go on over to bengreenfieldfitness.com. Ben: The word on the street this week..Umm…hopefully not all three of those things combined. Brock: You never know. Ben: Yeah, as our long time listeners know, ah, I am always tweeting over at twitter.com/bengreenfield all the latest studies I come across. You know, I follow a ton of books, and journals, and magazines, I‘m actually doing a workshop for the group of personal trainers that I mentor over at superhumancoach.com and I’m going to give my insider resources, and I’m just showing the exact, you know, podcast I subscribe to and the magazines I read, the journals I get, the books I read and the the, forty three different blogs that feed into my…my… my…used to be Google Reader but is now Feedly. Um, anyway so I’m constantly…. Brock: Ah, that’s right, they killed Reader, didn’t they? Ben: Yeah, rather than playing Scrabble while I sit on the toilet, I sit there with my Kindle, on my squatty potty, and study up. So, there’s a visual for you. Anyways, so… [0:05:01.1] Brock: I didn’t actually picture it until you said that. Damn it. Ben: One of the things that I tweeted this week was that you get about one third of your total carbohydrate energy during exercise, not from gels, not from sports drinks, not from this superstar drink, something, like that, but lactic acid. This is through a process called the Cory cycle that we’ve talked about before on the show. But this study actually, it kind of blew my mind because I didn’t think the percentage was that high.
  4. 4. Brock: It is surprising. Ben: But this study it looked at blood lactate concentration and then actually looked at lactate, what are called oxidation rates, and they found that carbohydrate utilization that, that specifically when you inject someone with lactic acid, which is the same thing as lactic acid building up in your muscles, one third of energy that kind of feeds into the, into the Krebb’s cycle and produces ATP from carbohydrates, one third of that energy was from lactic acid. Isn’t that amazing? Brock: It is. I like, I knew there was a significant amount. But like you said, that’s a lot higher than I would have suspected. Ben: Now I’m working on an article right now for bengreenfieldfitness.com and it’s part of the book that I’m writing and this article which I actually should be able to publish it tomorrow if you listen to this at the time the podcast comes out. But it goes over some very interesting research that shows that the combination of a high-fat diet with a high-intensity interval training actually improves economy and efficiency during exercise by about five percent. Which doesn’t sound like much but it’s huge. That’s the difference between like, pedaling a bicycle 300 watts versus 315 watts. And I think that one big reason for that is because you’re able to train your body how to tap into fatty acids very efficiently as a fuel, right? But then the high intensity part of it is training your body to shuttle that lactic acid up to be able to be used as glucose to replace what you might normally be getting from gels and sports drinks, etc. So it’s just this really, really cool, you know, if you look at it coming from a cross eye view, like it all makes sense. One supplement that I talked about before that actually enhances this process, is called oxaloacetate. And it’s actually a popular anti-aging supplement. Dave Asprey, the Bullet-proof Exec guy actually sells oxaloacetate on his website as an anti-aging supplement, but I actually get it from Dave, and I’ll put a link on the show notes for folks if they want to grab a bottle and try it. But I get it from him because one of the researchers that I was speaking to at his bullet-proof exec conference, outlined a very cool mechanism by which oxaloacetate up-regulates the conversion of lactic acid into glucose and so if you’re going out for a hard high-intensity workout maybe something kind of steady
  5. 5. state where you’re producing lactic acid for a long period of time, this stuff helps and I actually noticed the difference. I’ve trialed with and without. So oxaloacetate is a cool way to speed up lactic acid conversion to glucose for you lactate nerds out there. Brock: So there really is, like our body has the complete process built in. We’ve just been skipping part of the process by dumping a whole bunch of sugar down our hatch. Ben: Yeah, it’s like why would there be a need for lactic acid to be utilized as glucose when a ton of exogenous glucose is getting dumped in? Brock. Precisely. Yeah. Ben: So, it’s very interesting. Brock: So as soon as we, would it take a long time ‘til there’s a switch over to that or is it something that your body just innately knows how to do? Ben: Oh, the more trained you are, the more efficient you become at lactic acid utilization but that kind of relates to the next thing I wanted to talk about. Which is another study that looks at trained athletes. In this case, highly trained cross-country skewers, skiers. Skewers? Skiers. Brock: Skewers. Just running around …. Ben: Dipped in spicy peanut sauce. Um, these highly-trained cross- country skiers, they actually compared how they responded to different interval lengths of training, like, when you actually trained, what kind of intervals are gonna improve your endurance performance the best. And what they found was that in the more trained individuals, longer duration efforts like still efforts that produce lactic acid and are still kind of close to that, you know, slightly pain, caved-ish effort, but longer efforts gave this folks a lot more bang for their buck than shorter efforts… [0:10:00.1]
  6. 6. Ben: …specifically five to ten minute bouts worked better than two to four minute bouts. And I know that we’ve kind of kicked the high- intensity interval training horse to death before on the show and talked about how effective it is. But I think that sometimes athletes, whether we’re anaerobic or aerobic athletes, we sometimes get a little carried away with these short efforts, either the 500-meter row, and cross fit, or the quick treadmill sprint for a tri-athlete or something like that. But you actually do, like the more fit you are, the more you benefit from throwing in some longer efforts, you know we’re talking like some 500-meter repeats in the pool or some bicycle efforts that are like two or three mile intervals rather than short sprints, or you know, running mile repeats rather than doing you know, 30-second treadmill sprints. The more trained you are, the better these slightly longer intervals are for you. So takeaway message here is, don’t just do the short stuff, you know, and what I like to see is that, you know, if you ever look at things at like a two-week training block that an athlete might, for any given two-week training block, have one to two sessions that are like shorter high intensity interval sessions and then one to two sessions that are longer high intensity interval sessions. So, you know, an example of how that might work out is that, one week, you know, for your hard workout, you’re doing, let’s say you’re a runner, you’re doing 400-meter repeats, but then the next week that same workout is6, you know, 1500-meter repeats or mile repeats. So… Brock: So did they talk about that just being a physical reaction or did they bring in any of the mental component into it. ‘Cause I know personally during those longer hard efforts, really prepare you mentally for that point in the race where everything just starts to suck and hurts and gives you that mental power to plow through. Ben: That’s a really good point. It’s not something they looked at but it’s a very astute observation, Brock. Perhaps… Brock: Hmm..You can tell that I’m getting curious. Ben: …I should become the sidekick and you should become the whatever … Brock: Well, that’s the master plan.
  7. 7. Ben: …whatever I am. Is it? Brock: Yeah, well it’s my master plan. Ben: Thanks for filling me in. Speaking of filling me in. Let’s talk… Brock: Oh, no. Ben: …let’s talk about stool transplant. How do you like that for a segue? Brock: Gosh, I don’t know if I hate it or I love it. Ben: Ah, so this was an article that came out in The New York Times about donating your stool to a friend in need. And you know the idea of fecal transplant is something that we talked about on the show before. Transplanting poop from one person to the digestive tract of another person, kind of seems relatively repulsive. But the fact is that, the bacteria in our stool really constitute a huge part of who we are. And there are literally hundreds of trillions of cells in what’s called your microbiem and many of these bacteria live down in your bowel, in you large intestine, in your colon, and the microbiem of that particular area is extremely important. Now, some people suffer from what’s called Clostridium difficile. and that’s this dangerous strain of bacteria that’s actually becoming an epidemic in specially lots of hospitals, and nursing homes. And so the idea behind the fecal transfer, or poop transplant, or whatever you want to call it… Brock: Re-poop-ulate. Ben: …re-poop-ulating, is that you restore colonies of healthy bacteria that kind of dilute or crowd out the harmful strains. The issue is that a lot of doctors are shy about doing this. The FDA has decided to actually classify human stool that is used therapeutically as a drug, and they did that earlier this year, in April. And so it’s only approved if you do a stool transplant within an FDA-approved clinical study. If you’re a physician who’s gonna do stool transplants for people who have like, all sort of colitis, or this Clostridium difficile, or anything like that, you know, bacterial imbalance in the colon. So, what the New York Times
  8. 8. article gets into, and we’ll link to it in the show notes, is the story of this guy who tried tracking down doctors who would help him, and he finally found one doctor who obviously couldn’t do it in his office but he gave the guy complete instructions for doing it. A do- it-yourself fecal transplant for his body. Brock: Wow. Ben: Because this guy has healthy stomach bacteria and gut bacteria and his body had all sort of colitis, so the process involved a blender, and some enema tubing, and a syringe, and lots and lots of newspaper. But basically involved, based on the physician’s instructions… [0:15:00] Ben: …a stool transplant, and lo and behold, it was actually successful. Brock: Crazy! Ben: And resulted in this guy, he said he literally felt better like minutes after the stool transplant took place. And apparently some patients, because of this new FDA rule, have actually been resorting to Craigslist to find helpful stool donors, and, I usually rely on Craigslist for things like mow my lawn, or come and, come and purchase my old t-shirts, but hey, you can also use it if you just need to find some healthy poop. Special Announcements: Brock: So the Thailand trip is blowing up, is it? Ben: Yes, the big Thailand adventure… Brock: Travel adventure. Ben: …that I’m leading people on, and includes a pre-camp, ah with ton, we’re doing, we’re bunches of bike fest, run workshops, swim workshops. I’m dialing in some pretty cool guest lecturers to come in we’re gonna do a big focus on health and nutrition, and lifestyle and kind of that whole health versus performance component.
  9. 9. We’re doing like a five day luxury training camp at this place called… Brock: Luxury. Ben: …called Thanyapura, which is this awesome kind of health resort tucked away in Thailand. And then we move from there into another luxury resort where we hang for five days before doing the world-famous Laguna-Phuket triathlon. And then we hop on this, this boat and we go to the secluded Railay Bay for three days to play with the monkeys and eat barbecued swordfish on the beach and hang out. And then after that we go back to that luxury resort that we were originally at and we hang out there for a few days before the brand new what’s called the Challenge Half- Ironman Triathlon there in Thailand and then we party a whole bunch and go home with lots of memories. So, I am amazed at the interest in this event and, it’s beginning to, it’s actually got more people now in it than I had originally planned on even letting in, and I’m actually considering kind of bringing another coach on board to help out with the crew because we’re actually getting pretty big. It’s gonna be a blast, it, you know, you kinda show up and you’ve got instie friends, instie folks to hang out with and a ton of fun. So, it’s at pacificfit.net/thailand if you still want in on that, you got the flexibility to just kinda slip away for two or three weeks this winter. So, check that out. And, speaking of international travel, the Global Business Triathlon Conference in London, has invited me to be a speaker and that’s this September in London and yes, it’s kind of this global gathering of leaders in the triathlon business community. So if you’re a coach, or kind of a triathlon enthusiast and you happen to be near London anytime in September, we’ll put the link in the show notes. Brock: And that’s London, Great Britain. Not Arkansas, or Ontario. Ben: Ah, no. London, yeah, London, Arkansas. Exactly. Brock: London Arkansas. Is that how they talk there? I don’t think so. Ben: May I please have some fried chicken. So yeah, London, in the UK, the United Kingdom, for those of you who don’t know what UK stands for. Anyway, it’s right by Hyde Park, it’s based out of
  10. 10. the Hilton London there. It should be pretty, pretty cool, cool, so, we’ll put a link in the show notes to that, September 10th through the 12th, in London. And then finally, I should mention that there is gonna be a special audio that we play at the very end of this podcast, so stay tuned when we finish up ‘cause… Brock: Stick around. Ben: … there’s some extras. You remember the Perfect Health Diet, Brock? Brock: Yeah, oh, I’m actually about three quarters of the way through the book right now. Ben: Awesome book. It’s like, this is actually part of another article I’m writing. For people who aren’t super active, it’s like the number one diet that I recommend, Bar None to Perfect Health Diet. It takes some tweaking, if you’re really active, in my opinion it takes a little bit of added protein and some carbohydrate, what’s called carbohydrate cycling that actually isn’t in the Perfect Health Diet book. But the Perfect Health Diet is kinda my top recommendation if you just want a done-for-you diet book that explains the science and that I really stand behind and endorse. You know in terms of like nutrient density and compatibility with the actual human machine. And they… Brock: It’s really well-written, too. It does a fantastic job of laying out why they did what they did and why they recommend what they recommend and it’s… Ben: Yeah. Brock: …like the most important part of the book… [0:20:00.1] Brock: …instead of just knowing the what, you actually know the why. Ben: Yeah, well it’s written by a, by an astrophysicist, makes it super smart, smart’s the key.
  11. 11. Brock: It does. Ben: Anyways though, they are now doing a Perfect Health Diet Retreat in Austin, Texas. And I’m actually going to be down there at that retreat, speaking and presenting on how to kinda tweak the Perfect Health Diet if you’re like a cross fitter or a triathlete or something like that. So, we’re gonna do full details on that at the end of this podcast. I actually called them up and interviewed them about it. So, stay tuned if you’re into that kind of stuff towards the end and we’ll play a little anecdote from that, and yeah…… Listener Q and A: Kelsey: Hi, Ben. This is Kelsey. I’m calling from Maine. And I am seeing all over the place about this new study that says omega-3 fatty acids increase prostate cancer risk by a lot, like seventy one percent. So, I just wanted to know what your opinion is on this study, I’m sure you probably heard about it. And, I know sometimes studies can be hard to decipher, they’re not always what they seem. So I just thought I’d call and see what your opinion is. Thanks a bunch! Enjoy the podcasts, they’re pretty awesome. Thanks, bye. Brock: Yeah, I’m surprised we only got two emails. You must have got a whole bunch more that I didn’t even see. And a bunch on Facebook and Twitter. Ben: Yeah, a slew of tweets about this study that came out last week from the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center which found a link between blood levels of DHA which is the omega 3 that you find in seafood and fish oil, and the risk of developing nasty little prostate tumors. So, this was all over the news last week. Brock: And the rebuttals have been all over the place, too in the last few days I noticed, all the little blogs and the stuff that I follow. Everybody's got their rebuttal coming out. So, let's hear yours. Ben: Yeah, first of all, the study kinda surprised me because there is a chain of research stretching back over a decade that shows that
  12. 12. DHA which is that part of the fish oil that is the best for you actually is helpful and protective when it comes to prostate health. Brock: So this is the DHA, the EPA. And the ALA is what the DHA and EPA are derived from, right? Ben: That was a pretty big alphabet soup right there, Brock. Brock: That sure was. All you people who are in the middle of your bike ride right now, remember that. Ben: But this study of over 6,000 Swedish dudes, found that the people who ate the most fish had drastically lower rates of prostate cancer than the people eating the least amount of fish. And then there was a study in New Zealand that found that guys with the highest DHA markers had a lower prostate cancer risk by 38%... Brock: Nice. Ben: ...compared with the ones with the lowest DHA levels. And there was a study in Japan that found that omega-3 fatty acid levels in the blood were linked with a reduction in prostate cancer. So a lot of studies that preceded this that kinda made this one stick out like a sore thumb. So, first of all, I guess fish oil is only bad for you if you’re American because this was all in America. Brock: Yeah, not Swedish. Ben: And that may actually, I kinda sort of joke, it may actually be slightly true because there has been studies that have shown that a low fat diet intake which we know that a lot of folks in America are on, a low fat diet intake actually increases levels of omega-3 fatty acids in the blood stream. Causes your body to churn out a bunch more of those long chain fatty acids into your blood stream ‘cause you’re not getting them from your diet. And so, there could just as much be this link between a lower fat diet and prostate cancer as there could be between the omega-3 fatty acid levels and prostate cancer. So, in other words, the people who had the higher amount of prostate cancer in this study, may have been also showing high levels of omega 3 fatty acids because they're eating a low fat diet. Perhaps, and this is kind of like getting out on a limb,
  13. 13. but perhaps that low fat diet that they were eating was actually not giving them what they needed to be protected against prostate cancer. So, that's one thing. Another thing, and it's very, very related here, is the whole chicken versus the egg type of argument, [0:25:00.6] Ben: It's like, were the omega 3 fatty acid levels present in the blood stream in higher amounts in the folks who had prostate cancer because the folks who had prostate cancer actually needed the elevated anti-inflammatory effect of these omega 3 fatty acids. You know, it's like, were they being released as a protective mechanism. You know, so we don’t know whether the omega 3 fatty acids were the cause of the prostate cancer or whether they were actually being released to help fight the prostate cancer. So there is no, because all it was, was just like a study where they took a giant population and sampled them and tested prostate cancer, and then tested omega 3 fatty acid levels. You know, we don’t know which came first, the chicken or the egg. The other thing that’s really important is that, there are lots and lots of fats that they didn’t measure in this study. And as a matter of fact, about 80% of the different types of fats that are floating around in the bloodstream, from saturated to monounsaturated fats, were not measured at all. And when you look at the percentage of omega 3 fatty acids or DHA floating around in the blood stream, that’s about 5% of all the other fats that they could have measured. So this is a very, very small picture of what could be going on, and they measured just a tiny, tiny little percentage of the total amounts of fats, gives us very little information when it comes to prostate cancer. Now, finally, nobody looked at the type of fish oils that these people are using. Brock: That’s the thing that I noticed, too. It’s like, okay, that’s one thing that we talked about a lot on this show is choosing your fish oil wisely. Ben: I just put out a video over at Facebook.com/BGfitness asking the question “Is your fish oil killing you?” Because it is true that much fish oil contains fillers and synthetic materials and is full of free radicals that can cause damage to cells including cells in your testes and your prostate gland. And literally fish oil can be bad for
  14. 14. you if you’re not eating the correct type of fish oil .The best type of fish oil comes from small fish that thrive in cold waters, that’s been packaged to reduce the actual oxygen content in the bottle, that’s not been stored on shelves or exposed to heat, and that contains protective antioxidants to keep the fish oil from going rancid, stuff like vit.D and vit.A and vit.E, and azaxanthine, and that is why I posted that video was to point out the fact that yeah, fish oil actually can be bad for you if you’re not eating the right kind of fish oil. I pop anywhere from 4-12 fish oil capsules a day, depending on my level of activity, and also depending on my calorie intake for that day. Like if I’m eating a low calorie diet for a day, or I’m restricting calories or it’s like a recovery day where I’m eating less, I actually pop more fish oil, just to give me concentrated nutrients with fewer calories. And so, you know, like on a recovery day, I’ll eat more fish oil, up to 12 capsules, and I use the Super Essentials, which is a triglyceride natural-based fish oil from small fish that live in cold water that has all those antioxidants in it. And that’s the one that I would recommend and I certainly do not believe that fish oil causes prostate cancer. I think that if anything, I highly suspect it’s the other way around. When you get prostate cancer and your body begins to fight off the cancer, that it’s gonna churn out higher levels of omega 3 anti- inflammatory fatty acids in your blood stream. So that’s, that’s what I suspect is really what’s going on here. Body Fat: Hi, Ben. Thanks for the great podcast. I was calling you with a question about gadgets that measure body fat. So, one of my co- workers knowing that I’m into sort of the health stuff, brought in a gadget where you enter your height, your weight and your age, and then you hold on to the hand clinchers and it shot out at you a measurement of your body fat percentage. And I wonder, first of all, how accurate is the result of that type of machine? And second of all, you know, what’s a good target number? For your reference, I’m 25 and weigh about 135-140lbs and the machine shot back at me 15%. And I’m just wondering is that a good target, or too low, too high. So, any help will be appreciated. Thanks a lot. Ba-bye. Brock: So, I’ve heard that the most reliable way to do it is actually with the skin calipers.
  15. 15. Ben: Calipers are decently accurate if the person that is measuring you has done a bunch from like, you know, one of my favorite gigs that I had was when I was a graduate student at the University of Idaho Wellness Center. [0:30:00.5] Ben: And so, one of my roles was to sit in the graduate student office and work on developing our personal training program, and to go out and oversee all the personal trainers out on the floor working with their clients. And then also to do free body fat percentage measurement for pretty much any sorority girl that happen to wander in and want her abs, her thigh, and triceps measured, and I happily obliged. So, I did a lot of these skin caliper measurements. I’ve probably done close to a thousand. And, it’s very, very easy to grab an inaccurate pinch of fat or to vastly over or underestimate body fat if you don’t know what you’re doing. So you want to make sure if you go in and you get a skin caliper test at the gym, the person should just be like, you’ll know right away, like they’ll be super confident, it should be like vava-voom, vava- ving, and they’ll measure it. Typically if they’ve got like some book open and they’re like looking at the book and then looking back at you and like, looking about what to measure next, that’s a pretty good sign that they shouldn’t be doing the pinch method with you. But the skin fold caliper measurement actually is pretty accurate. For ideal accuracy, you measure seven different places on the body. You can still get pretty decent ballpark for measuring three different areas on the body. But it’s hard to do on yourself. As a matter of fact, you should go join the Cirque De Soleil if you can get a shoulder blade skin pinch measurement on yourself ‘cause you’ve got some mad flexibility skills. Brock: I hear they actually make you do that when you audition for Cirque De Soleil. Ben: Hmm, you would know, you would know, my ex-ballerina friend. Brock: Uh-hmm. Ben: But there are, there are definitely more accurate ways than skin calipers if you really want to go on the geek mode. So you got
  16. 16. hydrodensitometry, which is underwater wang. So you literally get dunked under water and you let all the air out of your lungs. It is not pleasant, but it calculates your body density, and then you use your body density to calculate your body fat. That’s really considered to be one of the gold standard measurements for measuring body fat. But you usually have to go to like your local university, like call ‘em up on the phone, ask for the sports science department, you know, that’s a good way to find an underwater wang lab. Not a lot of gyms have giant dunk tanks, if you haven’t noticed. Dexa scans are decently accurate and that’s a full body scan that you’d usually get to measure, you know, bone density but, you know, it’s a full body scan. There are other full body scanning devices out there. MRIs can do it. There’s one called the total body electrical conductivity test that can do it. CT scans can do it. All of those are interesting because they give you, they give you, the, an idea of where the fat is actually distributed because they give you a visualization. Now there’s a home measuring device tool. You know I used to have one. I sent it to, to one of my clients ‘cause I wasn’t using it. But it’s like this ultrasound wand. I think we talked about them in a podcast before. But it’s literally like a… Brock: Yeah. Ben: …home unit. And it’s like, it’s very similar to the data you get from an MRI or a CT scan. Totally blanking on the name of it. We’ll have to go back and… Brock: I remember talking about that. Ben: I’m writing a note to myself. We’ll go back and find a link to that one in the show notes… Brock: Yeah, it’s pretty cool, it’s almost like the little thing they use on a, on a pregnant woman. Ben: Yeah. Brock: It looks like that sort of a device.
  17. 17. Ben: Yeah, yeah. I’ll try and remember that, to get a link to that in the show notes but, yeah, I mean, it’s like, it’s like, I want to say 200 bucks or so. I think I even have like an affiliate link for it so they, they kick a few bucks back our way if I can hunt down that link somewhere. Uh, I’ll see if I can find it. But, anyways, yeah, that’s, that’s a pretty good one. Brock: Intelametrix… Ben: Intelametrix, there you go. Intelametrix. I’ll, I’ll find it and put a link in the show notes. And then you’ve got actually, I wonder if the Intelametrix, it’s ultrasound, that’s what it is, ultrasound. So yeah, you’ve got that one. There’s another one. This one’s pretty hard to find, too. It’s called Near Infrared Interactance or NIR, and that’s where they hold a fiber optic probe against your skin, usually on your biceps and they use these little painless light to penetrate your tissues and the light is reflected back off your bones into the detector and that approximates body fat percentage. Brock: They actually, they used one of those on the latest episode of Dexter. Ben: Oh, nice. Brock: Funny but I watched Dexter last week. The cannibal. Ben: They probably used it some episodes of Star Trek, like twenty years ago, too. Brock: It was, the guy that was using it was a cannibal and he was sizing up Dexter to see if he wanted to kill him and eat him. Hahahaha. Ben: Seriously. Really. And he was measuring his body fat with that? Brock: Yeah. Yeah, he wanted to get like an idea of his body fat and, I guess, muscle mass and all that kinda stuff to decide whether to kill him and eat him.
  18. 18. Ben: That is, that is really interesting. So, and it was a near infrared. So yeah, there you go, near infrared, fiber optic probe. Add that to your home gym tools or to your, to your, to your cannibal kit. [0:35:01.9] Brock: To your cannibal collection. Ben: Bodpods, those are those kind of expensive space age-looking pods that, and you can find those in a lot of fancier health clubs and in a lot of physiology labs. And that just uses sensors to measure how much air your body displaces when you sit inside the chamber. It’s, it’s not bad, it’s pretty, pretty close to that underwater wang without requiring you to hold your breath or put on a Speedo. So that one works pretty well. And then you also have kind of that, the magical handheld device, the, the bioelectrical impedance which, unfortunately is notoriously inaccurate and it annoys the heck out of me when gyms do like their free body fat percentage testing. You get a test, find out yeah, whatever 15%, walk back five minutes later, get tested again and you’re a 20. So…. Brock: I have one of those at home and I generally do three tests a minute apart and then just average them as they do fluctuate, not widely, but they do fluctuate from moment to moment. Ben: Yeah, I mean if you got to make, you know, lemonade out of lemons, and that’s all you have, just make sure that you measure at the same time of the day every time you measure, that you’re in the same state of hydration, you know, basically just try and dial in as close as possible then do like Brock does and measure three times. You will get a decent ball park. But if you really want to know you know whatever body fat that you’re getting, whether or not, you are or you should be, I’m gonna put a cool little body fat measurement chart for women in the show notes. And what it is it that it lists your age, from 18 up to 60. So, my apologies to all the highschoolers and seniors listening in. Apparently, there are no body fat percentage measurement charts for people on your group. Brock: Or just say 56 and up.
  19. 19. Ben: Yes, that is true, 56 and up. So there you go. And it will show you what lean would be considered, what ideal would be considered, what average would be considered, and what above average would be considered. And this is important because essential body fat levels are really, really crucial. Like when I was a body builder and I got down to 3% body fat, I looked, I looked nice in pictures but I had no sex drive and I was like this piece of muscle who just laid around on the couch, and ate, and got up to lift. So, 3-5% is essential body fat levels in men, and 8-12% are essential body fat levels in women. I’m not saying that‘s the, what goal you should shoot form, but that’s the point where you’re getting dangerously close to too low. Now, in most athletic women who are kinda like in anywhere below menopause, usually they, they look good and they feel pretty good anywhere in like the 12-20% range, that’s what I found. In guys, who are usually like about 8-15 percentish, I know that I feel really, really great as far as like my libido, my sex drive, my energy levels when I’m around 7-8%. Like I look good, but I also feel good. So, there out outliers, though. My wife is at, I think she’s at about 9% body fat now. When I tested her back when she was a runner, she was close to just 7%. She was regular, never missed a period, had her sex drive, felt good, no brain fog, and she comes from like the, the skinny Montana rancher genes, so that’s just genetic, you know. Very, very uncommon that you‘re gonna find somebody like that who, who actually is a functioning healthy female who’s not just completely, hormonally messed up at 8 or 9% body fat. So, you do want to make sure that you maintain healthy levels of body fat. As far as this question being at 15% body fat, and 25 years old. Well, if you use this chart and we look at the 25 year old age range and we look at kinda like the lean. Lean is about 12-18%, so that will be like, kinda like, you know, bikini lean. Ideal, for fertility and health, and all that jazz, which just kinda just depends on your goals is about 20-24%. So at 15%, I mean that is not bad at all for a 25 year old woman. Frankly, you know, that’s the point where you want to kinda start listening to your body, and making sure that you’re not missing your periods, and that you’re feeling feeling good. That reminds me that over at Endurance Planet, there was recently a really, really good interview on women and running. And just like hormones, and how to time your, your, your biggest workouts for what time of the month that you’re in, like when your estrogen levels peak…
  20. 20. [0:40:00.6] Ben: …according to where you’re at in your period. And that’s actually a really good one to listen to. We should link to that in the show notes, if you remember. We need to remember to link to the body metrics and to the Endurance Planet episode on women and running. So, yeah, as far as body fat percentages go, check out that chart. If you really wanna get something super duper accurate, find somebody at your gym who’s got a, you know, caliper, or else go hunt down a bod pod, or some underwater wang, or the little cannibal device. Brock: Uh-hmm. I’ll have a quick drink. I think my water bottle’s making a lot of noise. Ben: Oh, yeah, and that? Brock: It’s my bengreenfieldfitness PPA-free use bottle. Ben: Sucking on the bengreenfieldfitness teat. I like it. Jim: Hi, Ben. This is Jim. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about lactose and how it’s processed by the body, how it differs from fructose and sucrose, its effect on blood sugar levels, its effect on insulin levels, and also touch on IGF. I recently started logging all my food, and was surprised to find that between 50 and 90% of my daily carbohydrate intake is in the form of milk sugar. As an FYI, I don’t have any milk issues. I drink between 2 and 3 gallons of milk a week, generally in the form of the grass- fed, non-homogenized, pasteurized milk. Thanks. Love the show. Brock: At 2-3 gallons a week, that seems like a lot of milk. Ben: Well, what’s he doing? Grass-fed, non-homogenized, pasteurized, you know, if I was, let’s put it this way, if I was one to put on a bunch of muscle, and I was paying attention to like, you know, to my heart rate response to the what it was I was drinking and kinda like what my stomach felt, I wouldn’t have a huge issue with that amount of dairy consumption assuming that it is from like a nice, grass-fed, organic, raw dairy source. Like in the anti-aging podcast that we just came out with last week, I talked about how
  21. 21. you know that Greek island of Icaria, one of the longest living populations on the planet, in addition to drinking 2-3 glasses of wine a day… Brock: Woo-woo…Yeah. Ben: Would drink a lot of milk. Raw, raw goat’s milk. Brock: Yeah, goat’s milk. Ben: Yeah, and you know, I know that milk kinda gets, gets, vilified a lot of times in the paleo community but there’s a lot of pretty good human evidence that shows that milk is good for you, if you’re drinking the real stuff. There’s one study that found that people with the highest level of milk fat biomarkers which suggested they consume the most amount of dairy fat, actually had a lower risk of heart attack, and in women it was pretty significant. The risk of heart attack was reduced by 26% based off how much the milk fat biomarker that they had in their blood stream. There’s another study that showed the people with the most full fat dairy had a 69% lower risk of cardiovascular death than people who ate the least amount of full fat dairy. Brock: Sixty-nine, dude. Ben: Uh-hmm. There, there was a review, like a meta analysis of 10 different studies that found that milk-drinking is associated with significant reduction in heart disease and stroke risk. And in most cases, if you look at things that vilify milk, let’s say the China study, you know T Colin Campbell is pretty infamous for his study that links casein which is a protein in dairy products with cancer. And you know in that particular book he made the leap to conclude that all animal proteins cause cancer and should be avoided. But what he neglected to mention was that whey, which is another protein that you find in dairy, has anti-cancer effects that cancel out the cancer-promoting effects of casein. And that comes down to the fact that’s important whenever we’re looking at these stuff to study whole foods, and not just nutrients. Now, of course not all milk is created equal so, you know, raw dairy is a whole healthy food that contains all of its intact fats and nutrients and enzymes. And pasteurized dairy I would consider to be a
  22. 22. processed food. So, for example if we look at lactose, many many people do not produce lactase enzymes on their own. They need to consume dairy products that actually have the active lactase enzyme intact in that dairy, of raw milk is what contains lactase which is the enzyme that’s needed to digest lactose and pasteurization kills lactase. And so folks who can’t tolerate pasteurized dairy or who maybe produce a lot of mucus, don’t feel good, get bloating… [0:45:00.5] Ben: … and gas and that kind of stuff from pasteurized dairy, they do just fine with raw milk. And so, if you were going to say drink a bunch of milk for the insulin-like growth factor effect which we’ll talk about in a second, then it would be important to actually get your hands in some raw dairy. I would consider anything else to be a Franken food. So, pasteurized, homogenized dairy I would not be consuming. Now the whole idea behind this dairy and behind lactose is that you do get a pretty significant insulin response to the consumption of dairy and that is because lactose is just two different types of sugar stuck together, it’s galactose and it’s glucose, and those are fairly simple sugars. And so, when you consume them, you do get a blood sugar response. That’s why me, when I’m doing this whole ketogenesis thing, I can’t really do much yogurt or milk even if it’s full fat, just because of the amount of lactose sugars that are in that. Brock: I was gonna ask if it’s full fat, wouldn’t that slow down the insulin release or slow down the digestion of the sugar? Ben: A little bit, but you gotta remember protein also elicits insulin secretion. And when you look at dairy, it’s the protein plus the carbs that are responsible for the really big insulin release that you get from dairy foods. It’s an even bigger insulin release than in a lot of other you know high glycemic index foods, you know like candy and wheat bread and stuff like that. And the reason for that is because when you look at dairy proteins they’re really really high in amino acids like leucine, and valine, and lysine, iso- leucine, all these branched-chain amino acids and these are considered really insulogenic proteins and they’re gonna be highest specifically if you take like isolated whey protein. Oh this
  23. 23. is why whey protein and branched chain amino acids help you to put on muscle really quickly if that’s your goal. You can get pretty swollen pretty quick when you’re combining lifting with whole dairy consumption or whey protein and branched chain amino acid consumption, like that’s a way you can put on muscle pretty quickly. And so if you tolerate dairy from like an allergenic standpoint, that insulin release when timed, post workout is really gonna help you recover faster and it’s gonna help drive amino acids and the glucose that is the by-product of lactose breakdown in your bloodstream. That’s why milk helps babies grow into big people and calves grow into big cows. So, truly not an issue, if that’s your goal, to put on muscle, and your goal is to recover faster, and you don’t have an issue with that. It’s because of the huge insulin-like growth factor release that you get from that insulogenic response to dairy consumption. You know in my case, if you look at me, skinny endurance athlete, trains a lot, eats a low carb diet, doesn’t do much dairy. You know in my case, my insulin levels are very low, they’re too low. If I really wanted to get myself up to a healthy fertile muscle-bound weight, I would actually be consuming more raw dairy. You know it’s one of the reasons why after I cross the finish line of Ironman Hawaii this year, I’m actually gonna be, you know, putting on a bunch of muscle, kinda getting off the, a full ketogenic diet doing a little bit more cyclic, and beginning to include some of these more insulin-producing foods in my diet ‘cause I wanna spend a little bit of time in my life putting on muscle, and getting fertile, and you know basically becoming a little bit more ancestrally healthy, so to speak. So, yeah, as far as dairy goes, you know, if you have no issues with dairy and you know that by paying attention to the way you look, you feel and you perform, paying attention to for example to your heart rate after you consume the food, and we’ve talked about how you can use like the sweet beat heart rate variability app or something like that in previous shows. And you, you know maybe you’ve even gone out, and you’ve gotten like an immunoglobulin test which shows that you don’t have a really big reaction, you know, big sensitivity to dairy. Yeah, I mean, I would be sucking down a glass of raw milk, preferably raw goat’s milk ‘cause it’s better absorbed, it’s more what’s called thermodynamically favorable. Because the size of the protein in goats is a little bit more compatible with human absorption capabilities. But, yeah, like, gold standard raw goat’s milk after a workout like if you
  24. 24. wanna recover fast, sure, I mean, the chocolate milk, what do they call it? What’s the chocolate milk campaign? My…What is it, “My Recovery”? Is that what it’s called? Brock: Something like that. [0:50:01.5] Ben: Every professional athlete on the face of the planet with their little milk moustache, this big chocolate milk campaign, yeah, I mean that stuff will cause the same insulin growth factor release but have a lot of side effects along with it. Whole, raw dairy post workout, boom, big fan. So, my apologies to all the paleo folks out there. But I see no issues whatsoever, specially based off of what I’ve seen in human studies, not in test tube studies on the benefits of dairy. So… Standing Desk:Hi, Ben. I recently got a standing desk at work, and I stand anywhere from probably 4-6 hours a day, and have found that it takes me, or it seems to take me longer to recover between workouts when I’m standing a lot more at work. And I wondered if that was the case if there would be any scientific reason why it would take me longer to recover from a workout if I’m standing more, or if that’s just all my imagination. My main goal is basically to stay thin and fit and I’m not training for any event or anything. So some guidelines on the optimal balance between standing and so that I don’t have a super sedentary lifestyle and getting recovery so that I can do some high intensity intervals and some weightlifting would be great. Thanks for the podcast. Brock: You know I found the exact opposite when I started using a standing workstation. I found that I actually recovered really quickly and didn’t get as much muscle soreness as well after a really hard or a long run. Ben: Yeah, you know it depends on a few things, Brock. It depends on your posture, ergonomics are really important. I mean, you want that computer at just below shoulder height so you’re not reaching up or reaching down. You preferably want something that you can put one leg up on, like a stool or something that can kinda shift your weight from side to side so that you’re not just putting like
  25. 25. the shear force, you now, kind of a combination of the shearing horizontal force and actual downward force on your knees, and your spine, and your lower back, and I personally found that standing for longer periods of time can make my legs feel heavy at the end of the day, and can even make my low back feel tight and my knees a little bit sore. I found that I can mitigate that by interspersing periods of sitting with standing. And for me personally, I do my best writing when I’m sitting. I do my best work, you know, email response, reactive response, consulting stuff like that when I’m standing and then when I really just want to get down and write, I put, I have like a laptop, what’s it called, like kinda like a tray that my laptop goes on. Brock: Laptop protector? Ben: Yeah, well I’ve got a wooden tray that was designed with this little pad that you can type while you’re sitting down. But then I put my nut protector on top of that which is called the Hera pad, it blocks electromagnetic field radiation from the bottom of your laptop. So I put that on top of the tray, and then I sit down on the couch, kinda with my feet elevated a little bit. And if I’m really in geek mode, I’ll throw in some compression tights, I’ll do the 110% compression tights, put some ice in those for a little cold thermogenesis. If you’re getting the idea, I’m big time into multi- tasking. So, it’s like if I’m gonna sit down and write it for an hour, that’s great if I’m getting compression and cold thermogenesis at the same time, you know. So I’ll sit down and do that, then get back up and stand, and if you leave the compression tights on, and having the ice in them is fine, too, you know burn a few extra calories, soothe some sore muscles, that can really help as well as you know, like, I keep a foam roller beside my standing work station and I’ll foam roll every now and again. I keep a golf ball underneath my standing work station, and I do like golf ball rolling with my feet. So I’m always just kinda like taking care of my body the whole time I’m standing there and working. And I’ve talked about this in my underground training tactics article about how if you spend the entire day on your feet, and then you’re one of those people that works out like later on in the day, like in the evening, you actually have this training effect, right? ‘Cause you know, let’s say you’re getting ready for an Ironman Triathlon where you’re gonna spend 3, 4 or 5 hours on your feet out there
  26. 26. running. By going out and doing a high intensity interval training session for running or track workout or some kind of a run after you’ve spent a day on your feet, you actually do get some of that endurance training effect as well, you know, and you don’t have to have a full on treadmill workstation to get that. You can just stand up and do it. Over at our Facebook page at facebook.com/BGfitness, I posted a photo of a new kinda standing workstation protocol that I’m using this summer to get my vitamin D, and a little bit of sun, and to keep me more alert and awake. I have a standing workstation outside… [0:55:01.0] Ben: … and it’s out by the garden where we’ve got all our kale, all our romaine lettuce, and our strawberries growing. I’ve got a shade, there’s a special shade that you can just like get off of Amazon, it’s called the Sunshade. You put it on your laptop, it blocks all screen glare, and it still allows access to the keyboard, and you can just stand there and work, and no bird poop on the keyboard yet. The other thing that I have is, and this is kinda really getting out there, I have an inversion table in my garage. And 2-3 times a week I invert. I go out there and I hang for anywhere from 5-10 minutes, to get blood kinda back out of the legs. Feels really good, like, you know, specially now, in my final stages of training for Ironman Canada, I’m training a little bit more on the weekend. So, I kinda, Monday morning after I’ve been kinda training on Saturday and Sunday, I go out there and hang for about 10 minutes and it just drain the legs. But it also works truly well if you spent the day at a standing workstation and you can replicate that by just kinda sitting up against the wall and getting your feet up. But yeah the inversion table would be another thing to look into. So, yeah, there’s all sorts of ways you can mitigate the kinda the heavy leg syndrome you can get from standing at a standing workstation, but those are some of the ways I’d do it. And in the show notes, what I’ll do for you, is I’ll put that picture for you of my standing workstation, my outdoor standing workstation with my little sun shade. Brock: Nice.
  27. 27. Steve: Hey, Ben. I love the podcast. I always learn a lot listening to you all, and I love the bromance between you and Brock, it’s pretty funny. Anyway, I have this flap tear surgery on my left shoulder at the beginning of August, just three days after half Ironman Steelhead up here in southwest Michigan. I know what to expect because I got my right shoulder done last summer, the exact same surgery. I’ve got two questions. One, should I do anything to speed recovery on those three days between my half Ironman and surgery? I don’t want to roll into the operating room hurting too badly because the aftermath of the surgery itself will be painful enough if it’s anything like the first time I got it done. Last time I did gain a lot of weight mostly fat. I’m trying to curb this as much as possible by burning a lot of fat and dropping weight for both my half Ironman and surgery since they’re around the same time. Thanks again for all your help and I look forward to your answer. Ben: You know, slap tear surgery just sounds pretty bad ass. Brock: Yeah, I’ve, well, it sounds a little terrifying to be honest. Ben: Slap in the face, tear into your shoulder. Brock: Tear your shoulder. Ben: Do some surgery. Slap you, bad boy. Brock: There’s no anesthetic, it’s just a slap. Ben: Yeah, slap tear surgery. We won’t get in this slap tear surgery just ‘cause I don’t think that many people probably care about what slap tear surgery is. Let’s not get into the nitty-gritty of this… Brock: I think we did a pretty good job at summing it up right there. Ben: Yeah, we shouldn’t be surgeons. So, three days between your race and your surgery. If I were in your shoes, I can tell you exactly what I would do. First thing, I would shut down as much inflammation as you can, ‘cause you don’t want to go into surgery inflamed from that 70.3 chuck full of these xytokines, and interleukins, and c-reactive proteins and all the nasty stuff that builds up in your body that’s necessary, that’s a natural reaction.
  28. 28. But that is not gonna do you any favors when it comes to not being in a stressed out ,very kinda hypercortisolic state going into your surgery, So, first thing I would do if it were me, I would be doing cold thermogenesis everyday. So, on that day that you finish, I would do a nice cold bath, 55 degrees, or lower. I would be getting a good thirty to sixty minutes of cold thermogenesis exposure everyday between your half and your surgery. The nice thing is that cold thermogenesis also assists with developing pain tolerance. So if you got any you know, incision pains, things like that, post surgery, it can help out a little bit with that. You know, Jack Kruse, Dr. Jack Kruse from jackkruse.com, probably one of kinda like the internet experts on cold thermogenesis, he’s a neurosurgeon, and I know he uses ice packing and cold thermo for a lot of his patients pre-surgery for some of these same reasons. So some cold thermogenesis would be good. If you don’t know how to do it, just go to bengreenfieldfitness.com and do a search for cold thermogenesis. I’ve interviewed Jack a bunch. I’ve got articles on how to do it. I would also recommend loading on some specific supplements that are going to help you recover faster both leading up to the surgery and then after the surgery. Big one should be vitamin C, iron from a non-constipating source, like you know Floradix, or just eating a lot of red meat would be another way to do it ‘cause you’re gonna get some good enzymes and amino acids with that. I’m a big fan of proteolytic enzymes. There’s one called Wovenzymes that’s really good. There’s another one that I used that you can get at Pacific Elite Fitness called Recover-ease, that’s a really, really good one. [1:00:03.5] Ben: You just load with these prior to surgery. There’s actually a recovery pack, and I’ve personally designed this recovery pack for kinda that ultimate combination of post workout muscle building and also recovering post race. And it is a combination on proteolytic enzymes, specifically from Recoverease. So you get a bottle of Recoverease, organic goat protein that’s cold-processed and so from there you get a lot of benefits that we just got done talking about when it comes to insulin-like growth factor and growth factor release. It comes with a bottle of essential amino acids and these are the proteins that are pre-digested, no calories but a ton of protein with 99% amino acid absorption for
  29. 29. rebuilding and repairing muscle. And then the last thing is a really, really potent antioxidant blend called Lifeshotz, and that helps you repair connective tissue. It also helps with anti-aging and building skin, hair, nails, stuff like that. But I would also be loading with it in a situation like this. So I mean if you’d just get that recovery pack and only do that, that would be a really, really good way to do it and it just all kinda comes to you in a box to your house. I’ve got a book, a free e-book, that I’ll also link to in the show notes, that talks a little bit more about some stuff that kinda flies under the radar– glutathione, high-dose vitamin C, all these other things, that’s called “How to recover like Wolverine from X-Men”. I decided to go through a really subtle title for that one. So check that out, I’ll put a link to that free e-book in the show notes for Steve or anybody else who wants to grab it. And then another few things you know as far as the recovery period after surgery and controlling appetite. One big thing and this is something I found more and more to be the case because I’ve been really focusing on using my Mondays as a recovery day and not really even eating much. And it’s been hard for me, honestly. I didn’t realize how much I actually kinda tended to eat on a recovery day versus focusing a little bit more on some of the benefits, some of the anti-inflammatory benefits from the cell, what’s called cellular autophagy benefits of fasting. I’ve been trying to limit my calorie intake one day a week and combine that with just some easy stuff, some cold thermogenesis, some yoga, stuff like that. And it’s kinda for two reasons. One is the repairing benefits of moderate fasting, and then the other is that, and this is just total mental thing, like, when I don’t eat as much, I’m less tempted to train. Does that kinda make sense? Like if I eat a huge, huge meal of a thousand calories, I’m like, I gotta go on a run this aft...Excuse me, I’m gonna sneeze just a second…(Sneezes) That’s good podcasting right there. Brock: Hmm..Gesundheit. Ben: So, anyways, the thing is that if you can…My sneeze totally threw my mental function off … Brock: I’m the same way. I think when, like when you’ve had a big meal you definitely want to compensate. You’re driven to have that
  30. 30. compensating for it by burning off some extra calories and upping up your metabolism a little. Ben: So the trick that I found is that on Mondays I find other things to give me that dopamine release that food gives me, ‘cause I like food, you know, through wording, palatable, and that’s great, that’s one of the cool things about eating, right? But there are other things that give you that same effect. So on Mondays, I’ve been doing some special things with my kids. Like for example, this week we did, what did we do this week? Oh, we went to swim lessons and then we went exploring down at the river and just like swam around in the river, and you know, caught craw dads, and just kinda hang out. And I get a big dopamine release from hanging out with my kids. I also have been playing guitar more on Mondays, ‘cause that’s I really enjoy music and that’s another kind of like food distractor for me. Any hobbies, anything that kinda helps you out at the risk of TMI, I’ve been trying to have sex on Mondays, like you know, mid-day quickie. And you know, my wife doesn’t complain, and you know, it sounds stupid, that that is one of my appetite control methods, but we’re talking anything that causes that dopamine release. And these are all little things that’s like, we use food so much, when there are so many other things that can cause pleasure. And so I think that’s important when you’re not able to eat. [1:05:00.3] Ben: Now I don’t know if you with the giant cast and you know your slap tear surgery recovery are gonna be able to go and bang somebody in recovery mode but, you know, I’m just throwing some stuff out there for you. Now… Brock: Maybe not do the banging but to receive the banging. Ben: Yes. There you go. There you go. A slap, a tear and a bang. The other thing is they have these and this is kinda funky, they have these smell sticks that help you with the appetite control. And you smell them. Brock: I’m totally not getting.
  31. 31. Ben: I have some. Like some compounds… Brock: Smelling salts? Like you snap it under your nose and you go, “Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.” Ben: They, you know you don’t have to snap ‘em, you just smell ‘em. And they have like these special aromas that is like aromatherapy. There are certain compounds in aromatherapy medicine that are appetite suppressants. And these things just have them in them. So, I’ll link to smell sticks in the show notes. But I’ll tell you what, for people listening in, ‘cause I honestly have a bunch of extra smell sticks for appetite control that I’m not using. First person who hears this podcast and leaves a comment in the show notes, over at bengreefieldfitness.com/248. First comment… Brock: 276 Ben: Or is it 2.. I thought it was 248? Brock: Oh, no. I think you’re right. Wait, wait. Ben: It’s 248, for sure. I know it is. Brock: Yes, sorry. Ben: So bengreenfieldfitness.com/248. I’ll mail you some, I’ll message you privately after you leave your comment. I don’t care what your comment is, whatever, just keep it clean. And I’ll mail you some smell sticks. Unsmelled. Haha. Still wrapped and unsmelled so you don’t have to worry about my snot on ‘em. And then a few other things for appetite control. You know I’m never a big fan of just like turning to supplements to shot down appetite ‘cause I think it doesn’t really help you mentally to feel like you have to rely on supplements to shot down your appetite. But these are the things I recommend to people on fasting days. One is a good greens supplement. So I like something like some capragreens powder, stirred into a glass of water, and that’s just like minerals, and spirulina and stuff like that. You could also go for Enerprime. You could go for like these energy bits from energybits.com which are like chewable algae tabs. Any of that stuffs gives you basically calorie restriction with nutrient density, which is especially good if
  32. 32. you’ve got a fasting day, also good if you wanna shot down appetite cravings, when you don’t want to be eating that many calories. Amino acids, same thing, like master amino pattern, essential amino acids, you pop 5-10 of those. Those can shot down appetite cravings. When you do eat, if you’re trying to limit weight control, then use something like bitter melon extracts to control blood sugar levels. I use MPX 100 for that. And I’ll put a link to all these stuff in the show notes. And then the last thing is coconut oil. No insulin response. It’s still gonna satiate the appetite. That’s one that works well for like nighttime cravings, too. Just go get yourself a tablespoon of coconut oil. It’ll get you relatively satiated again without causing that insulin spike. FYI, if you put it on a dark chocolate bar, it tastes really, really good. But that does cause an insulin spike. Not speaking from personal experience. I’m just saying I saw it on TV once. Brock: Of course. Yeah. Ben: Yeah. So, so those are some of the things I’d recommend. And we’ll of course link to all these stuff in the show notes for you. So bengreenfieldfitness.com/248. Brock: Including the smell sticks. Ben: Slash 248 Tim: Hey, Ben. This is Tim from Colorado, currently training for a half marathon that starts at 9500 feet of elevation, ends just shy of 12000. It’s a very technical running course with a lot of steep down hills that are all on the road. And last year I was pretty beat up from it. And I’ve used some things that you’ve taught me with some cold thermogenesis and some great recovery techniques. I’m just looking for any suggestions of how to go a little faster. Last year, I got seventh place. Any advice on fuelling strategies, how to lessen the impact of the really tough downhill run, and anything else you could help me to try to go into this taper for this race that is exactly one month from today. Thanks a lot. I love your very entertaining and informative podcast. Brock: Okay. My first question here is that if the race starts at 9000 feet and ends at 12000 feet, how is there some very steep down hills?
  33. 33. Ben: You know I figured, it’s probably like long uphill climbs with some quick down hills. That’s all I can think. Or maybe, maybe there’s like some kind of like a helicopter they hop onto as part of the race, that, yeah… Brock: Takes you to the bottom of the hill again just keeps pulling you down. Ben: Treadmill on the helicopter. Yeah, Uhm. Brock: Oh, it’s probably like Sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill and you just like, somebody keeps knocking the rock so you have to run back down and get it and push it back up. Ben: Yes, yes. Did you say “sisses”? Brock: Sisyphus. [1:10:00] Ben: Sisyphus. We talked about sisses, the thalo supplement. It kinda sounded like that. Brock: Oh, yeah. Ben: Sisyphus. Okay, so running down hill. First of all, for preparing your body for the rigors of that, I’ve got some exercises for you. Boy, do I have some exercises for you. Brock: Bring ‘em on. Ben: Depth, depth jumps. Love ‘em. Because what you do… Brock: Wait, did you say death jumps? Ben: Yes. There’s a spike and a hot bed of coals. Brock: Tim, don’t do it. Ben: It’s like, it’s like Mario, where you jump off the cliff. No.
  34. 34. Brock: Depth jumps. Ben: Depth jumps. You get onto a box, a race platform, stairs, steps, park bench, church pew… Brock: Ouch. Ben: …whatever. And you step off and then you land with either both feet for a double leg depth jump, or you land with one feet for a single leg depth jump. And as soon as you land, you reverse direction and jump. So it trains your body how to absorb impact and then also trains your plyometric reaction, your stretch reflex reaction to produce a quick contraction as soon as your foot hits the ground. So the goal is minimum ground contact time. And you’re also landing from a fairly elevated surface. So you get some, what’s called, eccentric loading, so it kinda trains your bones, and your muscles and your tendons and your ligaments to withstand the impact - the joint impact and the hard impact of downhill running. So I’m a fan of depth jumps for that. Brock: Just to be clear, you’re not jumping back up onto the platform, the elevated platform. You’re just jumping straight up… Ben: No, turn around, step back up there, you know, then start again. Brock: So you hit the ground, jump straight up, back turn to the ground, then step back up and do another round. Ben: Yeah, if you go to the youtube bengreenfieldfitnesspage@youtube.com/bengreenfieldfitness, there’re photographs of me, clad in Spandex, doing depth jumps. It’s really sexy. Brock: Better than us trying to describe it on in video. Ben: I don’t think we did that bad of a job. Anything eccentric, and I’m a really big fan of super slow squats for this. You just put a bar bell on your back, and you do super slow squats. You can also do eccentric calf raises. The problem I have with calf raises is they don’t give you a lot of bang for your buck. I mean if you’re gonna do an eccentric exercise, you might as well burn some calories,
  35. 35. and build some muscle, and get yourself strong in the process. So I’m a bigger fan of eccentric squats. And all eccentric means is you’re gonna take, let’s say, 10 seconds to lower the bar, and then you just come up at a normal pace, you know 2-3 seconds, then another slow lowering So, you’re training that muscle again to lengthen and to tear, and then to be able to repair and recover quickly after that lengthening and that tearing. You don’t want to do super slow eccentric workout any closer than about 48 hours. So be careful, you know, don’t go out and grab a bar bell and start doing eccentric squats in your garage every day. Or your ass is gonna call me up on the phone and complain. But, you know, moderate amounts of eccentric squats, and just basically including downhill running in your program. That’s really important, too. And using proper technique when you run down hill. That is so important. So when it comes to running down hill, it kinda, the problem is the opposite of what happens when you run uphill. You get too much backward lean when you run down hill. Usually when you run uphill, people lean forward too much. I should talk about it in a second. I’ll tell you how to run uphill. When you’re running down hill, the gut reaction is to shift your weight backwards, that’s what you want to do. And when you shift your weight backward, that slows you down. It’s a breaking effect. It’s a protective effect. But when you’re trying to go fast, in a race, breaking, and self protection is okay then, thrown to the wind. And so, if you wanna slow down, then leaning backwards is the right choice. But running down hill gives you this free gravity- assisted increase in running speed and you wanna take advantage of that if you can. So when you lean back, you throw your center of gravity behind your body and so, you gotta wait until your feet have passed back under the center of gravity for you to start generating force again. So you get all these increased breaking forces. So, you instead, you wanna lean forward. You don’t want to lean too slightly, or too much forward, ‘cause then you’re gonna careen out of control. Brock: Yeah, that’s dangerous. Ben: Yeah. But you wanna just lean a little bit forward to find that balance between using the speed from running downhill and then running so fast that you get out of control and just throws your pacing way, way off. Just go and practice this, just keep your
  36. 36. center of gravity as much in front of your body as you can, without getting completely out of control. And then really, really focus on fast feet, quick stride. I usually throw my arms out to the side a little bit for that side-to-side balance, but it’s okay to be a little bit messy when you’re running down hills. Brock: Yeah, a little out of control. Ben: Yeah, you use that, think about lean and go. Lean and go is kind of a good little mental trick to think about. Brock: I like to think up rather than forward, too. Instead of leaning forward, just lean up. [1:15:00.5] Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Brock: ‘Cause when you’re on the hill, you’re already sort of, it’s going to go forward if you just think towards the sky. It gives you that lightness. Ben: Yeah. And then for the up hills, which it sounds like you’re gonna be doing a lot more of, frankly. Your natural reaction when you start running up a hill is to lean into the hill by bending forward at the waist. And, some degree of forward lean is necessary when you’re running up a hill, but most people lean way too far forward. And this negatively impacts your ability to run uphill in a few different ways. It inhibits your ability to flex your hips, and drive your knee up. So I need you to try it right now while you’re listening. Lean forward at the waist, then try and drive your knee up. It’s hard to do. You have way less range of motion. So, an excessive forward lean… Brock: I just kicked myself in the chin. Ben: Yeah, or you kick yourself in the chin, if you’re Canadian. So it shortens your hip flexor’s range of motion and that hurts your running efficiency. It inhibits your ability to produce a good toe off during the drive phase of the gait. So again, try and lean forward at the waist, try and push for toe off. It’s hard to do. So to
  37. 37. take full advantage of all the energy that’s stored in your calf muscles when you’re running uphill, you got to be able to fully extend your leg behind you and you can only do that if you’re thinking about running tall when you run uphill. So don’t think about, I mean, you can lean forward, but the lean forward needs to be your whole body, not from your waist, and slowly extend your glutes behind you. Brock: Yeah, exactly. Ben: And then also, when you lean forward, it throws your body off balance. It moves you center of gravity way too far forward. And then again, this makes it hard for your glutes to drive your legs backwards. So it’s kinda like zigzagging in a pool. Now, when, for example if you’re in a pool and you bend too far forward at the waist, you start to zigzag side to side. So you wanna, just like when you want to swim tall when you’re in the pool, you want to stand tall when you run uphill. So you think about standing tall, you think about driving with your hips. And usually in a case like this to maintain efficiency and economy and not to get your heart rate out of control, kinda slightly shorter, choppier steps, work a little bit better. Those are some of the things that you should do when you’re running uphill and when you’re running down hill. So, yes, sounds like a, sounds like a killer half marathon. Brock: Uh-hmm..Oh, Jim.. Ben: And did you wanna know how to eat? He wanted to know how to fuel, didn’t he? Brock: Oh, yeah. I think he did mention some fuelling just as an afterthought. Ben: Dude, don’t even worry that much about it, honestly. Eat a good breakfast like a couple hours prior. Well, you’ve got two options. You either eat a good breakfast a couple hours prior and then you just go out and run, and you know just carry a quick hit of something with you if you want something super quick while you’re running. Honestly, for something as short as this, I won’t even mess around with like carrying flasks and all that jazz. If it were me, really because it’s just a half marathon, I mean, you
  38. 38. know, I know this might sound like heresy coming from the super-starched, low-fat fuelling guy, but I’ll just throw a freaking gel on my pocket and slam it halfway up. You really, you’ve got almost enough storage calories to make it through a half marathon. The other option… Brock: Now if it’s hot, you need to have some water. Ben: If it’s hot, and you’re slow, and you’re gonna be out there more than 2 hours, you may want to consider doing this. You either eat a slow release breakfast, like you have like a serving of super starch with some coconut milk for breakfast, so it’s just all like fatty acid release. And then you get a flask and you put a serving of super starch in there. If you really want to get all nerdy, you do some of my underground techniques, like you put some d-ribose, you know, throw a shot of x2-performance in there. Throw some amino acids in there, you know, like chew up some amino acids and spit them into the flask, literally, that’s what I do. One of the other things that are on my, oh, Vespa, Vespa wasp extract. Brock: Oh, the wasp juice. Ben: Yeah, I mean, that’s what exactly what I’m gonna be using for ironman is basically I’m using the endurance pack from Pacific Elite Fitness, which is X2 Performance, Vespa wasp extract, just cause it’s sexy, the X2 Performance, and then super starch. And so like all that is mixed into a bottle. And then I’m putting a little bit of the MCT oil in that, too, like some of Dave Asprey’s Bullet Proof MCT oil. I tested that, ‘cause it’s a weird mix, like it’s a bunch of just random stuff, but I’ve been thinking about this and studying it, and trialing this stuff for a while. And then it’s money, it’s just gold. I bought one ounce and hammered out on a mountain bike for 2 ½ hours up on the hills, came back, threw down a 30-minute run and was just burning clean the whole time. No gas, no bloating, vava-voom, vava-ving. So, there you go. Brock: Now, but you’re doing that for Ironman. We’re talking about a half marathon here. So that’s, that’ll be a little bit of overkill unless you’ll really be taking your time. Ben: It’ll be way overkill, I just started to talk about it.
  39. 39. Brock: You just got excited. Ben: I just got excited. Brock: Really, it comes down to have a good breakfast.. [1:20:00.5] Brock: …or just have a gel ready to go in case you start to bonk. If it’s really hot, make sure you stay hydrated, but you’re probably gonna be okay. Ben: That’s right. And speaking of getting excited. Wanna hear what the top iTunes review of this week was? Brock: I sure do. I’ve been waiting for this the whole show. Ben: So put a link in the show notes, ‘cause if you leave a review and I read it on the show, then that means, and you hear the review and you email me. I know this is getting really complex. If you hear me read your review, and you email me, I will send you a really cool care package. Maybe even some smell sticks. So, Shawn Kaye, 27, left a 5-star, A+ review and here’s what he said. “ Since listening to the Ben Greenfield podcast religiously, I’ve been in the best shape of my life.” Religiously. We… Brock: Are you the pope of fitness? Ben: We are gods. “Ben filters the BS out of the overwhelming amount of fitness and health advise out there”. Brock: What does BS stand for? Ben: I don’t know. But he spelled advice with an “s”, not a “c”. It’s with a ‘c’, Shawn. And then he says, “Well, I’m 110 years old, and on my death bed, the young folk will ask my secret to longevity. I will pull them close...” This is kinda creepy. “…I’ll pull them close and whisper three words. Ben Greenfield Fitness.” Brock: I liked where he’s going with that. But it’s a little…Young folks, stay away from Shawn Kaye, 27.
  40. 40. Ben: Ben Greenfield Fitness.com Brock: You see him grabbing the kids by their heads. Ben: Grandfather’s last words is a website? Oh, no. Alright, we’re cool. So, that being said, like we warned you, we have a really cool commercial about the Perfect Health Diet coming up. It’s time for a commercial. It’s kind of a commercial. I guess it’s kind of a commercial. Brock: An infomercial. Ben: An infomercial. Check it out. Register if you want to get in that Perfect Health Diet retreat. It’s gonna rock. Read the review and also if you wanna spread the love, where do they go, Brock? Brock: Bengreenfieldfitness.com/love Ben: Or as we love to say, wove. Brock: Yeah, but don’t spell it like how do you, you’ll get a pager. Ben: You’ll get to our weaving page. Bengreenfielfitness.com/wove. My side project. Alright, folks, that’s about it. Thanks for listening in. Enjoy this infomercial. Have a healthy week and we’ll catch you later. Infomercial: Ben: Hey, folks. It’s Ben Greenfield and there is one diet on the face of the planet that I have endorsed more than any other diet that I’ve ever talked about on the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcasts, and that is the Perfect Health Diet which is based off the book of the same name, the Perfect Health Diet, written by Paul Jaminet, who’s been a guest on this podcast before. If you have no clue what the Perfect Health Diet is, then of course I would recommend that you read the book Perfect Health Diet. But I would also recommend that you go to bengreenfieldfitness.com and do a search there for Perfect Health Diet and go read a little bit about this diet that really increases your health, your mood, your energy, but is based off of a solid science and a very kinda clean eating protocol that
  41. 41. tastes good, too. Now in the meals and the diet programs that I create for my clients and the athletes that I coach, when I’m sitting there, you know, looking at you know, whatever, how much someone is cross fitting, or weightlifting, or cycling, or running, one of my go-to resources as far as laying out their meals and putting meals into their program that aren’t gonna give them a stomach ache, that aren’t gonna result in autoimmune reaction but are actually gonna allow the body to burn some fat as fuel, allow the body to restore and repair lean muscle, my resource there is the Perfect Health Diet. So, the reason that I’m telling you all this right now is because Paul shot me an email. Paul, the author of the Perfect Health Diet, shot me an email a couple of weeks ago and gave me some really, really cool news about something called the Perfect Health Retreat that they’re now doing. And I have the proprietor of the Perfect Health Retreat which takes place right down by Austin, Texas. On the call with me today to tell you about how this retreat could change your life if you’re looking for kinda the final nutrition solution. His name is Damon Young. Damon, thanks for coming on the call today. Damon: Hey Ben, good to be here. [1:25:00.2] Ben: So, you guys created the Perfect Health Retreat. Tell me why. What exactly is this for? Damon: Well, I’m an older guy. I’m in my late fifties and have some health problems for decades, specially weight and diabetes, and various other ailments. I have converted to a pretty much paleo lifestyle about a year and a half ago, and did quite well on it. But I just wasn’t feeling that well. My numbers were getting a little better but it wasn’t as good as I want it to be. That’s when I found the Perfect Health Diet and read it and again followed that lifestyle. And the changes were just really amazing. All my blood sugars and all that are completely normalized. I have energy. I just felt good about living again. So I was really excited about it and we have a place here of retreat in south central Austin called Albert Oaks. Ben: Albert Oaks.
  42. 42. Damon: Yes, sir. Ben: Got it. Damon: And we’ve been around a couple of years, but it was just a retreat for people to come, go with, come and see Austin and no real direction. Was told Paul was gonna be at the paleo effects in February this year. So I called him up and asked him if he’d mind staying with us because I wanted to talk to him about some things. So he stayed here, and we spent a lot of time together working and deciding to just convert this to the Perfect Health Retreat. So that’s all we do now. People come here and they are completely immersed in the Perfect Health Diet in a completely supportive lifestyle to do it. Ben: Now what is it that happens to people’s bodies as they’re there in terms of, not only what they’re learning but also what happens to them transformationally on a physical level? Damon: Yeah, well, as you know reading the book it just corrects you. The first thing is we get rid of all toxins in your diet, and then we replace it with the most nutritional foods available. Ben: So is it a detox in a sense that people are gonna be... Well there are some retreats out there that are just cleanses, right? Where people are literally cleansing their body for a full month. Is it like that? Or people are doing that type of cleanse, detox, juice fast, that type of thing, or people kinda eating real food while they’re there? Damon: Yeah. We don’t really use the word cleanse. It certainly is a cleanse but people associate that with maple syrup con cayenne and fasting, and things like that. And we’re not about that at all. You will just no longer be putting any toxic food in your mouth while you’re here, unless you go out. But it’s really delicious good food. That’s what really made me such a fan of the guy. If you can do without bread, we can make you really happy. Ben: Food that doesn’t taste like cardboard.
  43. 43. Damon: Oh, the food is just really delicious. And so by not, by no longer eating any toxic food and replacing it with super nutritious foods, you are essentially cleansing your body while you’re here. But it’s no fasting, or Spartan type of existence. Now, we do. I’m sorry. We’re all real big fans of intermittent fasting. And that is pretty much implemented for everybody at least 3 or 4 days a week to do that. Ben: So people go there. They’re there for a 30-day immersion program and as they’re there, they’re learning all about exactly how their body is supposed to feel. You’re teaching them how to structure the diet. Are you also teaching kinda like how to cook and prepare meals so that when people leave they, you know, they know what they’re supposed to do, or do they need to kinda hire a chef to bring home with them when they finish this thing. Damon: Well, let me address two things there. One, it’s a 30-day program but we understand a lot of people can’t take 30 days off. So we’ve also devised a what we call the Executive Program. And what that is, you need to give us a week here. So, you all can take a week off. But then we’ll send you home with the food you need and the room is yours for a month for you to come back as you want or need to for a couple of weekends or midweek. Whatever works for you, we’ll work with you on that. And that way, if you have a real demanding job, that you can only take off a week, you can still take advantage of what we offer here. We do have the classes with Paul via Google Hangout or Skype. So you can still attend the classes. [1:30:00] Damon: We’ll send you home with the food, and you can come back a couple of times or whenever you want during your month to reinforce and live the life here. But shared bedrooms offers a lot of flexibility, and also can bring the cost down quite a bit. Ben: Gotcha. Now I noticed that you guys have a lot of kinda like add ons that I was pleased to see. You’ve got lighting designed to support optimal circadian rhythms which I personally think is very cool and more important than most people realize. You have organic gardens, raised bed gardens, hydroponic gardens, fish
  44. 44. beds, hen houses. Just looking over your website and I will put the website out there in just a second for folks if you’re interested in going and checking this out. You’ve got lots of stuff like that but you also have kinda like, as part of the daily educational program that people are gonna be immersed in, you have mentors and you know, “experts”, who are coming in there physically, and also that you’re piping in via teleconferencing to teach people. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? And what kind of folks you’re gonna have there? Damon: Sure. We don’t have a lot of that arranged yet. We’ve spoken with you and we have that planned for February through March to work with you on the new program for athletes wanting to take to another level. Now we’ve reached out to quite a few members of the paleo community. And since we don’t have firm commitments of, and we love to use names yet, but… Ben: I understand. Damon: …but there will be a lot of people you’ve heard of involved with us here. We’ve offered pretty much a standing invitation to anybody that wants to come work with us. We’ve only begun the last, well we finished Beta One a couple of weeks ago and we’ve just started Beta Two. And while I mentioned that, let me go ahead and say while we’re developing the curriculum here during Beta Two, it’s half priced. And next month, Beta Three, we’re gonna offer a 30% discount because it’s not all set in stone and firm yet so we figured we’d go ahead and get people in, start getting results and offer a pretty significant discount while we’re getting started. Ben: Right. And just to clarify, you’d mentioned that I’ll be coming down there and that actually is the case. I talked to Damon and to Paul and what they’re gonna do is kinda like the Perfect Health Diet Retreat for the active individual. You know, for like the marathoner, triathlete, cross fitter, you know, type of person who’s really beating up their bodies on a daily basis. Because it’s true that you gotta tweak your diet, you gotta eat more calories. There are some changes that need to be made when you’re living an extremely active lifestyle. So the retreat from February through March is gonna focus on that. And I’m actually from March 3rd through 6th, gonna be coming in down there in person to teach
  45. 45. some clinics specifically on that aspect of the diet and the lifestyle. So, all of these, whether you’re interested in coming down there from February through March and planning on doing your retreat and your immersion on the Perfect Health Diet then, whether you wanna get down there sooner, whether you, maybe you just want to plan this for like if you’re real, real advanced planner, next summer or next fall or, you know whenever you kinda got that time to go down there, the website is and correct me if I’m wrong here, Damon, albertoaks.com , correct? Damon: That’s correct. And I freely give out my phone number, it’s (512)4445400. We individualize…. Ben: Can you repeat…Can you repeat that? Damon: Yeah, (512)4445400. We really individualize the program to people to best fit their needs. And we have a very high staff to guest ratio, never more than 3 to 1, usually more like 2 to 1. Ben: Wow. Damon: So, because we’re so personal and very little, we never have more than 15 people here, that would be very unusual to have that many. So, we’ll talk to you. We’ll let you know exactly what you can expect and how we might can work with you to make this the most benefit possible. Ben: So if you have food allergies, if you have gut issues, if you are confused about your diet and where you’re suppose to go and you just want that, kinda like, almost like a hand-holding and education program and a fix for your body, all wrapped into one, there’s not many retreats or “cleanses” or whatever you want to call them out there that I endorse. [1:35:00.6] Ben: But as soon as Paul wrote me an email and showed me what he had planned, I was 100% behind this. And so folks if you’re listening in, and this is the type of thing that is always been something that’s interested you, this is definitely one that I would
  46. 46. stand behind. So, check it out at albertoaks.com , it’s called the Perfect Health Retreat. And if you have any questions of course, I’ll put Damon’s number that he just went over in the show notes. I will also put a link over to the albertoaks.com website for you to check out. And you can always pick my brain if you are wondering whether this would be the right fit for you. You can always email me ben@bengreenfieldfitness.com and I can kinda point you in the right direction as well in terms of whether or not this is the right fit for you. So, Damon, thanks for coming on the call today. Damon: Hey, thanks for having me, Ben. I appreciate the time. [1:35:56.3]

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