Ben Greenfield Podcast 242


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Ben Greenfield Podcast 242

  1. 1. Podcast #242 from[0:00:00]Introduction: In today’s episode of the Ben Greenfield fitness podcast: Shouldyou exercise during cold thermogenesis, how to use D-Ribose,What is a withings scale, how to turn off pain, should you run ifyou have epilepsy, and what is a bad heart rate variability score?Brock: I can’t believe it’s coming out on Tuesday.Ben: It’s coming on Tuesday.Brock: I’m so excited.Ben: That’s right. And it’s not just the new movies that get released ona redbox on Tuesday which is also another good reason to lookforward to Tuesdays.Brock: That’s an exciting day but not as exciting as next Tuesday will be.Ben: That’s right. It’s actually been a long time since I watched it. Anactual, like real movie. I just watch stuff on hulu nowadays.Master Chef and now The Office is over, I’m not really watchingthat anymore. Modern Family, that’s another one.Brock: Yeah. We don’t, we can’t get hulu in Canada.Ben: Yeah.Brock: It’s geo-blocked.Ben: Well what happens to us is like it about 9:30 PM when our kidsfinally like get shut into their bedroom and we lock the door withchain and padlock, my wife and I collapse on the couch and justlike fall down in heap of exhaustion and put on whatever happensto be on but yeah, next Tuesday the app….Brock: That has nothing to do with hulu, it’s got nothing to do withredbox. It has everything to do with a new smart phone app.
  2. 2. Ben: Yeah, the Ben Greenfield Fitness app we’ve been developing itwith our crack team of awesome developers for the past month.Brock: Wizards.Ben: Wizards. And it’s pretty sick as I like to say. It’s got a ton of extrainsider exclusive audios in it. I’m putting interviews in there thatyou don’t get access to on the regular podcast. Yeah, it’s free, bythe way. Totally free.Brock: Now, I still don’t know how we’re gonna get rich when you keepmaking things free? You really don’t get it….Ben: No, I’ll tell you why and I’ll share this with the listeners too.Here’s my plan to take over the world.Brock: Okay.Ben: So the app is free, right, and it’s got like a bunch of videos withBrock. Brock, what are the product reviews you’re doing?Brock: So far, in there, if you were to get it on launch day, I’ve reviewedTailwind Nutrition and also….Ben: It’s just a horrible name for….Brock: It is. It’s a good product but a terrible name.Ben: I don’t think I’d eat anything that said tailwind but I’m curious tosee. I haven’t actually watched your video yet. But so what else?Brock: Yeah of course you’d have to wait ‘til the app comes out onTuesday.Ben: Yeah.Brock: I also did IntelliSkin shirts and with any luck before the launch I’llalso do a review on Skora shoes ‘cause I love those things.Ben: There you go. There you go, you can do all three at the same time– IntelliSkin with Tailwind while wearing the Skoras. You might
  3. 3. need some IntelliSkin underwear pura if you’re drinking Tailwindfuel.Brock: Yeah. We’ll fit it all in there.Ben: Got a how to use an inversion table video, half-ironman triathlonfueling set up, Olympic distance fueling set up, specials withMonica Reinagel, Dave Asprey, Ray Cronise, bunch of stuff inthere, Insider, Naked Truth episodes with Jessa and myself alongwith video. We’ll play a little preview of that for you.Brock: Yeah, we’ve got a little teaser coming up.Ben: In between the special announcements and the Q&A, listen incause we have a little teaser there for you and yeah as far as whyand the ultimate evil plan on how to actually make money ofsomething… cause we’re not actually selling advertisement on it.You can, if you get the phone app and you decide that you wantaccess to even more, like a bunch of inside videos and the stuffthat I’m doing, there’s actually an option on the app to upgrade topremium. And it’s super expensive, it’s $9.99 a year. And anywaysso that’s our plan to take over the world.Brock: Again, how are we going to get rich like this?Ben: I’ve already bought my Mercedes so people better, people betterbuy that 9.99 a year. I’m telling you what. And then I’m also, I’mon top of the world right now cause I just sucked down myketogenic kale shake.Brock: Hmm, delicious.Ben: I know folks who are at recently but Iwrote a mondo article about how I’m spending the next 12 weeksin a full state of ketogenesis – full-on low-carb high blood ketonebodies measuring it with breath ketone monitors, measuring myblood every week and staying in full ketogenesis for all 12 weeksleading up to Ironman Canada.[0:05:15.2]
  4. 4. And I’m gonna see what happens to your body when you do thatand the whole thing is sponsored by Talking20 who’s doing theblood measurements by Metron whose doing the breath ketonemeasurements, by Dave Asprey and the Bulletproof Coffee so I’mdoing either Bulletproof Coffee every morning with tons of MCTOil or else I’m doing this ketogenic kale shake. And the ketogenickale shake is essentially, there’s a few extra ingredients in it andyou can watch the video I just put up on youtube if you want thefull ingredient label or ingredient list but it’s basically kale and thekale is washed and mixed with like calcium to rinse all the oxalicacid off it and you just do that in the blender and then it’s gotprotein, like grass fed protein. It’s got collagen, it’s got a littleapple cider vinegar, some sea salt, some Brazil nuts, some coconutmilk, and some cinnamon, and I think that’s close to about it. Iliterally just like put the last spoonful of it into my gaping mouthright before we started podcasting and I’m a happy, full man rightnow.Brock: That sounds very similar to your sexy time shake.Brock: It is but I left out anything remotely resembling carbohydrates atall and also left out the avocado because frankly when you add allthat MCT oil and you put in avocado into, we’re talking north oflike 1500 calories in the shakes so it starts to get lowerredonculous so there you go. Try out the ketogenic kale shakevideos on Flashes:Brock: Go over to to find the links to all ofthese news flashes right here, taking you away to all the beautifulnew discoveries that the scientists are….Ben: Crazy scientists…..Brock: But they’re just doing crazy weird stuff all the time.Ben: Those bastards. They’re constantly throwing stuff at as that wehave to tell you about. So we just got in talking about ketogenesis.Here’s the cool thing that came across my radar. They did a studyon ketogenic diets and thermal pain in rats. And….
  5. 5. Brock: Thermal pain. So like setting them on fire?Ben: Something like, I’m guessing more like a cattle prod hypothermalpain regardless. The type of study you can’t do on humans but youcan do in rats. And what they found was that rats that were fed ahigh-fat, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet developed reduction topain specifically reduction to heat-based pain and thermo-pains,sensitivity to thermo-pain. And this reduces pain tended todevelop about 10 days into the ketogenic diet and I have no cluewho thought of this study about feeding rats a high-fat, low-carbdiet and hitting with the cattle prod until you know, seeing whichday they actually started to not respond.Brock: That’s just sadistic.Ben: Yeah, it’s a little sadistic but regardless, I think it’s interesting in acouple of levels. First of all, it’s interesting that when you switchto a high-fat diet it usually takes about 10 up to 14 days for you toreally make that metabolic switch for you to feel like, you’re not,you don’t have this feeling of blah, you know, I just wanna passout all the time and it’s interesting that it was about day 10 wherethe rats started to experience these interesting adaptations toketogenesis. The other thing that I thought was interesting for meis that since I started doing the kinda more low carb ketogenicapproach, when I’m doing triathlons and races in hot weather, Iactually feel better and I haven’t had due as much heatacclamation and I’ve no clue if you know, a cattle prod has muchcarry over to you know, exercising to the heat of Hawaii. Youknow, doing an Ironman triathlon in lava field. But I suspectedketogenic diet and low-carb diet maybe one of the reasons that Iactually performed better in the heat the past couple of years.So….Brock: Interesting.Ben: Yeah. I thought that was an interesting study and….Brock: I think you should sneak one of your kids a cattle prod. Just getthem to like surprise you at some point and see how it feels.
  6. 6. Ben: That would get out of hand. That would be like the electro-shocktherapy in the South Park cartoon where….Brock: Oh with the v-trip…Ben: Where Cartman is out and singing “O Holy Night” and getshocked everytime he sings it. So, moving on.[0:10:11.8]Brock: That’s pretty good.Ben: By the way, I do have a special song I’m gonna play for folks at thevery, very end of this episode. And I’ll fill you in towards the endbut we do have a special song, not sung by me but sung bysomeone close to me at the end of this episode. So you alwaysgotta stay tune for the end of this episode folks ‘cause we put insome cool stuff. So anyways, pain management and ketogenesismay go hand in hand.Brock: Yes.Ben: Oh the next thing is there was a study that was done by a bunch ofDanish students and this was a biology project that a bunch of 9thgrade Danish girls did and what they did was they got a crestwhich is you know, kinda like a water crest, essentially. And theygrew crests and they observe, measured, and weighted and tookpictures of crest for 12 days ‘cause the stuff actually grows prettyrapidly. So they had 6 trays of crest seeds and 6 trays of crestseeds were out into a room without a wifi router and then another6 trays of crest were put into a room next to 2 wifi routers. Andthese routers broadcast the same kind of radiation as an ordinarymobile phone would or as an ordinary wifi router in your homemight.Brock: So 2.4 Ghz signal.Ben: That just went way over my head dude. I do not know gigahertz.Brock: Just nod and smile.
  7. 7. Ben: Below hertz. Anyways though, the effects were shocking. I’mgonna link to this in the show notes because pictures tell athousand words on this but the crest and the non-wifi room grewand was this rich green color and was like growing off the plateand flourishing. The crest in the wifi room was literally like deadbrown, and shriveled, and shrunken.Brock: I was hoping that you were gonna say the opposite and it wasgonna be sort of like the Hulk sort of thing where exposure toradiation made it stronger and bigger and greener.Ben: Well you know, Jack Cruz, I’ve got a podcast coming out with JackCruz here.Brock: Oh cool.Ben: This Saturday. He and I talked a little bit about EMF and what itdoes to you cells and also we delved into a bunch of stuff. Wedelved into what he calls the pentose phosphate pathway andenhancing performance and what makes your cells leaky and it’sgonna be a cool podcast but regardless, this is one of the reasonsthat I don’t even have the wifi router on in my home anymore. Ihard wire into the cable modem whenever I wanna access theinternet. And my phone, for the most part, stays in airplane modeunless I have time to the day I wanna turn it on to communicatewith folks so the less you can expose yourself to these wifi signals,the better. I know it sounds kinda tinfoil at it but you gotta checkout these water crest photos. We’ll link to them in the show notes.Brock: So what you’re saying is Marvel comics got it completely wrong.Ben: What did Marvel comics do?Brock: Just everybody who’s exposed to radiation in comic books, is likesuperhuman.Ben: Yes, exactly the opposite. You will shrink and shrivel. There is alsoa study that was released in the Medicine and Science and Sportsand Exercise Journal. And this was really interesting and what itdid was it purposefully over trained people or actually got themclose to overtraining. So they had 2 groups of well-trained
  8. 8. triathletes and one group spent a week doing regular training andthen for the next 3 weeks continued regular training. Well theother group did a week of regular training but then for the next 3weeks they ramped up their training by 40%. And then for thevery last week, both of the groups tapered before they did thisfinal performance test. So the goal was to push the group thatincreased their training by 40% up into what’s called functionaloverreaching. And they took heart rate data, they took heart ratevariability data, which is that amount of time between you know,your heart beats and it’s the measure of your nervous systemhealth. And what they found was that sure enough, as you mightexpect, heart rate variability tended to drop more in the groupthat was chronically overreached or what was close to overtrained.Morning resting heart rate tended to fluctuate and actually gothigher in the group that was reaching the overreached state. Andalthough things tended to fluctuate quite a bit from day to daywhen you actually look at the 7-day average of both heart ratevariability and heart rate, you tended to see some really tellingpatterns. Now here’s the interesting thing. The overtraining groupgot steadily worse and worse and worse as that 3-weekovertraining period went on compared to the control group. Butremember, they put in a 1 week taper between the 3 weeks oftraining and the actual performance test. Well the group that wasoverreached or close to being over-trained – I have to be carefulsaying over trained because technically, over training is like really,really serious where as overreaching is pushing yourself close tothe edge.[0:15:03.9]But this overreached group, during the taper period, they began tosee massive improvements in performance and by the time theperformance test rolled around, they kicked the ass of the peoplein the control group. So what this goes to show you is that if you’retracking things like heart rate, like heart rate variability, etcetera,expect it to get a little worse as you’re getting close to yourvantage, you’re getting close to the end whatever you call it yourbuild phase or you know, your big ramp-up to the race. Allowenough time for a taper and I like around, you know, it depends. Ilike it 2-4 week taper for an Ironman and 1-2 week taper for halfan Ironman and most age group or triathletes for example and
  9. 9. trust your body. Know that it’s gonna kinda suck towards the endof that build period but man, if you taper, that’s when you get thegains over and above the folks who maybe just trained the samething day-in day-out all the way up to the race.Brock: So I assume the taper period was the same sorta protocol for bothof the groups.Ben: Yeah, the taper period was the same but one group was reallyreally beat up going into the taper period, one group wasn’t. Andthe group that was more beat up did better so it’s kinda this wholeoverreaching stair step effect. It’s the whole basis, you know what,in sports science we call it functional overreaching where you putyourself in this slightly high risk state and you risk those extremebenefits that you’re gonna get if you push yourself to that point.So….Brock: And it’s all about timing at that point, just making sure that youpush just hard enough at the right time and then cut it offotherwise it could all go to hell.Ben: I’ve had races where I started my taper too late. I got to the race,had a crappy race and then like 3 days later, I was superman andyou know, it was because I didn’t time that taper right. So it’sreally important you know. That’s one of the reasons to work witha coach or use a training program if you’re getting ready for a bigrace. The last thing that I wanted to mention, and usually I onlytalk about 3 studies, but I wanted to throw in 1 more here becausefish oil has come under attack recently. There’s been lots and lotsof talk about how fish oil does not indeed reduce your risk ofcardio-vascular disease based on these big studies starting withone that was published in the journal of the American MedicalAssociation a few months ago and this big study that waspublished in the Journal of American Medical Associationbasically showed that a modest daily intake of fish oil did notactually result in any statistically significant association with areduction in cardio-vascular risk disease which is why a lot ofpeople take fish oil to just make their heart stronger, and theirvessels better. That’s my highly scientific term – make yourvessels better. But anyways, the Journal of the American MedicalAssociation study had some serious flaws. First of all, here’s
  10. 10. something that they don’t tell you. That the entire study and allstudies that they looked at were done on people with cardiacdisease, people who would already become victims of acceleratedatherosclerotic plaque formation and people who they werefeeding generally about half as much fish oil as is necessary to bean efficacious dose too. So these people were not getting enoughfish oil and furthermore, they were already experiencedsignificant cardiac damage. So, you know, it’s kinda like sayingthat you know, you use fish oil as a preventive measure not toreverse heart disease so if you’re….Brock: Yeah it’s not a cure, it’s prevention.Ben: Exactly. And Life Extension Magazine did a great article on this,I’ll link to it in the show notes but you know, the analogy that theyused was let’s say you’re barbecuing outdoors and youaccidentally light a bush on fire that’s next to your house and youturn your garden hose on full blast and you put out the fire. Andso based on that experience, you can say that garden hoses areeffective in preventing houses from burning down. And then, youknow, in a different scenario, let’s say you come home and yourentire house is engulfed in flames and you take your garden hoseand you turn it on and you turn it halfway on (since they only gavepeople half dose of fish oil).Brock: Yeah.Ben: And your house burns to the ground anyways. And so at that pointyou say that garden hoses are completely useless in preventinghouses from being destroyed by fire so you know, the fish oil isanalogous to that garden hose and that yeah, fish oil is gonnawork if you’re in a healthy state and if you’re taking enough of it.But if you’ve already messed up your body, you know the onlything this Journal of American Medical Association study ormeta-analysis shows is that fish oil isn’t gonna reverse cardio-vascular disease. That’s about it.Brock: Which is a valuable thing to know.Ben: Oh sure, it’s a valuable thing to know that you can’t just pop a pillto reverse a hole that you dug yourself into but I think that for
  11. 11. those of us taking fish oil you know, for prehab, for prevention, Ipersonally plan on continuing to take fish oil. I was talking to KcCraichy, the guy who develops the Super Essentials Fish Oil that Itake that you get over at Pacifically Fitness and I talk to himsometimes and he gives me some advice in terms of likesupplementation and proper use of products and stuff like that, hedoes like the super grains and the living fuel and stuff like that.[0:20:19.5]And he said he takes 14 of this fish oil capsules per day. The SuperEssential Fish Oil capsules. I only do about 4-6 but that’s, it’sdefinitely something you notice a difference in. From a cognitiveperformance standpoint to a joint standpoint, you know, and youkinda get to keep your fingers crossed from the cardi0-vascularstandpoint unless you’re literally going in, doing like a calciumscore analysis on yourself or something. But yeah, there you go.Fish oil. Good stuff not bad stuff.Special Announcements:Brock: If you wanna get yourself a free audiobook, go and sign up right then and there and youwill become a gold standard, gold premium member, I can’tremember what it’s called. Some kinda awesome member and youget yourself a free book.Ben: Titanium Warrior Member.Brock: Sure.Ben: I don’t know what it is. I’m looking at the top book in parentingright now which is a topic close to my heart. The top book inparenting, actually I can’t tell if it, yeah it is a book but it’s gotwhisper sync for voice on it that means they read it to you andthen you can pick up right where you left off.Brock: Does it whisper to you?Ben: Yeah.
  12. 12. Brock: They read it to you really quietly.Ben: I’m trying to suppress a sneeze here. Hold on.Brock: Go. Do it.Ben: I’m good. I went running just as it was about to rain yesterday andI was wearing one of these Breathe Right strips and practicing likemy deep nasal breathing and I think I might have sucked somepollen up into my nose cause I never ever get sniffles and I’ve gotsniffles this morning. Anyways though, yeah, this book is called“Dad is Fat” by Jim Gaffigan. He’s a stand-up comedian and hetalks about his 5 kids and everything from cousins who he callscelebrities for little kids to toddlers’ communication skills. Hedescribes toddlers as they always sound like they have traveled byhorseback for hours to deliver important news.Brock: It’s true. “Daddy… you’re never gonna believe… what I saw…”Ben: To the eating habits of 4-year olds. There’s no difference betweena 4-year old eating a taco and throwing a taco on the floor. Soanyways though, he’s a funny guy. I kinda like comedians talkingabout kids and you know, it’s real, clean stuff, so check out “Dad isFat” by Jim Gaffigan and you can get that Beautiful.Ben: Beautiful.Brock: And what else is going on? Hey you’re doing a USAT webinartomorrow if you’re tuning in right away. It is May 29th and thewebinar is tomorrow, May 30th.Ben: Yeah, it’s, speaking of kids, about balancing work and family andlife while you are training for a triathlon and yeah, it is a USATwebinar so if you’re coach, you get CEUs and all that good stuff.And we’ll put a link in the show notes. And that one, that oneactually does cost money to attend.Brock: Not much.
  13. 13. Ben: But check it out. Scrapes and point together, if you wanna learnhow to get your life together and train for Ironman or somethinglike that. It’ll be a good webinar. I’ll knock your pants off with mypowerpoint so there you go. Check that out.Brock: That is if you’re wearing pants.Ben: That’s right. Speaking of not….Brock: And I’m watching webinars, why wear pants?Ben: Speaking of not wearing pants, the Thailand Triathlon Adventureis coming up in this winter. We’ve got, I think we have 11 peoplesigned up for it right now.Brock: Wow.Ben: We’ll put a link in the show notes over but here’s the way I look atopportunities like this. Like 20 years from now, 20 years fromnow you’re gonna regret the things you didn’t do more than thethings you did do and this is one of those bucket list trips. It’s thecomplete adventure of a lifetime. If you’re a triathlete or you’remarried to a triathlete, this is one of those things you just shouldtotally step up and just go. Like I’m literally, like I talked to Jessawe’re just, we’re literally moving to Thailand for 3 weeks, we’retaking our family there, we’re doing the races. We’re hanging outin the, you know, we’ve got hotels and you know, you do have tobe somebody who’s able to get that time off or be like me. Changeyour laptop or working from your computer but if you’re one ofthose people who has a flexibility to take off this November andDecember and come over to Thailand, we’ve got some options.You can go for 2 weeks, 3 weeks, or even 1 week. But blink is inthe show notes. It is gonna be a complete blast and the adventureof a lifetime. Trips to Raleigh Bay and rock climbing and seakayaking and triathlons and elephant rides, it’ll be pretty fun socheck it out.[0:25:17.8]
  14. 14. Brock: Just a word to the wise, if Ben starts running off down the beachand says I’ll see you back at the hotel, don’t let him get out of yoursight or you may get lost in the jungle for a good couple of hourslike I did.Ben: Yeah that was my bad. Sorry about that, Brock.Brock: That’s right. I survived and I saw some awesome monkeys but Idid have those moments of, this is how people never get seenagain.Ben: Horrible suppressed memories of….Brock: Canadian men lost in Raleigh Bay.Ben: Monkeys chasing you through Thailand. And I think that’s about…Oh, one last thing. This Saturday, for anybody who lives downnear Sacramento, California, I’m hopping on a plane on Fridayand I’m coming down to speak at an event. It’s actually in Folsomwhich is right by Sacramento but it’s called the Health andWellness Celebration. So check that out.Brock: You’re speaking to the prisoners.Ben: Folsom prison, yeah. We’re gonna go celebrate health andwellness in Folsom prison.Brock: Why not?Ben: No but it’s like all afternoon. It’s like a bunch of food and partyingand talks by health and wellness experts and they invited me tocome down and kinda head, coming down that way anyways, sothere I am in Sacramento at the Health and Wellness Celebration.Check it out and are we gonna play that little app….Brock: Oh yeah.Ben: Preview for folks?Brock: Yes, if you have delicate ears, you may want to turn away.Ben: The preview of the app.
  15. 15. Jessa: For me, cheating is probably… In mind which I partook of bothtimes and to me though, that’s not really cheating…Ben: And the other boys will have 1 or 2 servings or whatever and I’lljust have a couple of huge-ass *beep* and Jessa see me jack beforein like big and…Jessa: I know for myself I’m tempted by stuff like that. I love *beep* Igrew up on….Ben: So I usually bring a steak in my pocket to and chew on that. Okay.Jessa: I’ve done it several times or I have….Listener Q & A:Casey: Hey Ben this is Casey from Oregon, California. I had an idea toincorporate cold thermogenesis with the Litvinov TrainingProtocol by substituting the run with a 400 meter swim in an icycold river that I live nearby. I’m just wondering your take oncombining these 2 things and if there’s any health issues involvedI mainly wanna make sure my heart doesn’t explode while on themiddle of the 400 meter swim.Brock: Yes Casey, nobody wants your heart to explode. Not even us.Ben: Do you know what Litvinov Training is?Brock: I have looked over your training protocol and I think youincorporate some of those crazy combinations of blastinganaerobic exercises and then pumping iron and then….Ben: Yeah, it’s like you do 8 reps or so, you could do up to 30 reps ifyou’re doing like burpees or something but you do some goodsolid reps of a full body move like a dumbbell swing or a kettlebellswing or burpee or front squat or whatever and then as soon asyou finish that lift, whatever numbers you do for that lift you take-off and then all-out, you know, full-on sprint for about anywherefrom 30-60 seconds. And then you recover, back to the bar or thekettlebell or whatever it was you were lifting and you do it again.
  16. 16. So should you combine something like this with coldthermogenesis? Or, was he gonna swim or he’s gonna soak inwater?Brock: No, he was gonna swim. He was gonna do a 400-meter swim inthe icy water.Ben: So he’s not just like dipping in the water between sets.Brock: That was sort of confusing ‘cause can you actually do coldthermogenesis if you’re working that hard?Ben: Well let me tell you.Brock: Do it.Ben: So pre-cooling before workout. This is something that we saw likeway back as early as the Olympic games, like back in the 90’s. Iremember they had photos on TV, videos on TV of athleteswearing ice vests.Brock: Oh the 1900 and 90’s.Ben: Oh the 1900 and 90’s ice vests. Retro ice vests. Neon pink andneon green with the mohawks. Maybe that was the 80’s. I don’tremember. Leather pants. Anyways though, multiple studies haveshown that a cold shower or a bath or even an ice pack beforework out helps to cool your skin and reduce your core bodytemperature. And you know, there was one study that was in theEuropean Journal of Physiology that showed that in the instanceafter you’re submerged in cold water, not super cold but about 50,55 degrees water, groups who were in this experiment had a lowerheart rate while they were exercising after that cold exposurecompared to those whose muscles hadn’t been treated to the coldwater bath.[0:30:15.4]And, you know, there was a good article about this I think it wasin Outside Magazine about all these professional cyclists and alsoprofessional triathletes like Craig Alexander’s a perfect example,
  17. 17. who were using pre-cooling. Literally pre-soaking in cold baths oreven using like a cooling vest to actually lower the heart ratebefore going out and exercising in hot conditions. Now Ipersonally found from my own n=1 experimentations that if I doget a chance to a nice long cold shower or a little bit of a cold soakdown the river by my house earlier in the day before I go for a runor a hard bike ride or something like that, I do actually have abetter workout and I also, when I raced in Las Vegas a couple ofyears ago, wrote an article for Lava Magazine where I, during therace, was wearing an ice vest and had one of these palm-coolingdevices and even one of those zylatron-infused hats that when youput water on it, it cools. And then the zylatron-fused arm sleevesand you know, it felt good, I kept cool but ultimately I just felt likea total nerd and inspector gadget running down the highways so Ijust didn’t enjoy it so for me it’s all about being happy to and I justwasn’t happy with this vest on, hat, and all this jazz so anywaysthough, returning to the topic at hand here and doing coldthermogenesis by swimming through a cold environment andthen moving on and doing a weight training protocol, a few thingsthat you need to know. First of all, they have studied the effectiveexercise training in the cold on thermogenesis and what theyfound is that, and this was in mice and we can’t necessarily saythat mice are little men but we can make some proximation. Theregular mice had a much much higher calorie burn from non-shivering base thermogenesis meaning that their brown adiposetissue actually burned a lot more calories when they exercised in acold environment versus exercising in, you know, not in a coldenvironment so when you’re exercising in the cold or you’rejumping in a cold river, cold water, swimming, you’re gonna burna lot more calories. And this is something that Ray Croniseactually talked about in the Become Superhuman event like one ofthe best fat-burning exercises you can do is swimming in a coldpool or swimming in a cold river. Assuming you’re about tocontrol this huge appetite increases you get after you finishsomething like that. Interestingly, in the older mice, older miceseemed to have reduced ability to actually produce a lot of heatthrough the activation of that brown adipose tissue and in thosemice, it was actually shivering that caused them to burn morecalories regardless, both groups were burning extra calories, theolder group through shivering and the younger group throughbrown adipose tissue heat generation. So exercising in cold, doing
  18. 18. a cold thermogenesis type of swim is actually gonna give youbigger calorie bang for the buck compared to just sitting in thewater. Now here’s the kicker. For anybody whose done coldthermogenesis, who’s swam in sufficiently cold water to actuallyget your brown adipose tissue activated, what you get is a little bitof a kind of a neural down regulation when you’re in the coldmeaning that movement patterns become a little bit more difficultto sustain and proper biomechanics becomes hard. Anybodywho’s done a cold soak and then gotten out and tried to run, forexample, and you feel like Bambi on ice when you’re running. Youknow, when I’m riding my bike and I stop and I do a cold soak inthe river, cold swim, and then keep riding, I just, my pedalingmechanics are off and I don’t feel quite as fluid on the bike. Imean there are some definite physiological benefits but there aresome biomechanical drawbacks. Now, those biomechanicaldrawbacks are not a big issue if you’re running or cycling. ‘Causeyou tend to warm-up after a little while and you know, those first5-10 minutes are a little funky and then you’re good to go. But ifyou’re lifting heavy weights and you’re cold and yourbiomechanics are crappy, then you could really hurt.Brock: Danger.Ben: Yeah. You could hurt yourself. So me personally, because I knowmy own body and I know I move like a freaking plastic after I getout of cold water, I wouldn’t be hoisting a dumbbell over my heador doing any of these like Litvinov type of Protocols. You know, Isuppose like a body weight exercise, that’s a little less risky. Youknow, like a burpee or some push-ups or some body weight squatsor something like that and you could probably get away withsomething like that but I’d leave weights and extreme joint workout of the equation on this one.[0:35:10.4]Brock: Yeah I’d be worried about like snapping an Achilles tendon orsomething too. And you get your muscles all good and taught andthrow them into a burpee and that’s just, that’s asking for a riftmuscle or torn tendon or something as well.
  19. 19. Ben: Yeah. So the correct way to use pre-cooling would be like beforeyou go on a bike ride, you sit in a you know, cold bath or take anice long cold shower and accept the fact that it’s gonna take you alittle while to warm-up into your bike ride. So I, ultimately Iwouldn’t be doing this especially if you’re using weights.Ribose: Hi Ben and Brock. I’m taking D-Ribose from Now Products andthe website says I should take one and a half level teaspoons dailyprior to exercise but it also says serious athletes may want todouble the dosage during training. I don’t know if I’m a seriousathlete and I also don’t know if I’m taking too much. Is it gonnacause problems? Thanks.Brock: Yeah, how do you define whether you’re a serious athlete or not?That’s a weird way to term it.Ben: You know I think a lot of people get the impression that onlyserious athletes listen to show. Like, I’ve seen demographics fromAlexa and these websites that give you demographics of what yourvisitors look like and the people who listen to bengreenfieldfitnessand visit the website generally, not all of them, but generally fallinto the 40-60 year old demographic of slightly more males thanfemales, like 60% males, 40% females. And serious, like eliteathletes, pro athletes are listening but they’re not the majority so.Anyways though, as far as dosage of D-Ribose, I’d tell you what I’drecommend as far as dosage but let’s dig into what D-Ribose is.Brock: Yeah.Ben: It’s cool stuff. I literally just started using D-Ribose this year andit’s pretty cool specially if you’re a low-carbohydrate or like doingketogenesis. The reason for this is D-Ribose is this special sugarand unlike a lot of other sugars it actually has a negative value inthe glycemic index so it doesn’t spike your blood glucose, yourblood sugar at all, and you can’t even find it in food. Your bodyactually makes it itself. So D-Ribose either has to be formulatedlike in a lab, or else made by your own body. It has a negativevalue on the glycemic index. Now, you know what ATP is. ATP isthe energy storage in it for everything and what your body uses D-Ribose specifically for is to rapidly generate ATP. Rapidlygenerate ATP. So normally you’d use like carbs or proteins and
  20. 20. fats and stuff like this to go through all their energy-creatingscenarios and finally downstream create ATP. D-Ribose bypassesall of that and its used by what’s called your total adeninenucleotide pool which is basically like your precursor for buildingcells and everything like that. The total adenine nucleotide pooleats up D-Ribose and uses it to produce ATP extremely rapidly. Sousually after you’ve done exhaustive exercise it can take a good 3days for you to replenish your ATP stores so a lot of athletes whoare exercising on a consistent basis or everyone who is exercisingeveryday consistently is walking around with consistent depletedATP stores. But if you saturate your body with d-ribose and youbasically load d-ribose prior to like a hard event or even use it on adaily basis at about the same time everyday, it has a really, reallycool effect. So I’m a fan of d-ribose. It’s kinda like my new darlingsupplement. Most studies show loading phase of about 3-4 gramsof it is sufficient and then once your muscles get saturated with d-ribose you can maintain that with about 6-9 grams a day. Andactually there’s 3-4 grams you take in multiple times a day soyou’re actually close to 13-15 grams a day for your initial loadingperiod and then 6-9 grams a day after that.Brock: How long was loading period? A week?Ben: About a week. Yup, yup, exactly. So I started loading with, prior toraces, now it’s something amusing. Everyday, I use the X2Performance stuff and that’s actually the new kind of surprisinglyone of the official drinks of Ironman triathlon now and that’ssomething I was quite happy to see is the first time I ever seen aproduct that’s sponsored Ironman that I actually agree with theformulation. You know, it’s not just like complete sugar-filled,chemical filled crap. This stuff’s pretty impressive, it’s got a bunchof other stuff in it like disodium ATP and panetol and trace dosesof caffeine and basically a bunch of stuff and I don’t know if theydid this on purpose but it’s everything that a low-carb or ketogenicathlete would need to actually massively improve ATPregeneration in the absence of carbs without spiking blood sugar.[0:40:18.9]So it’s pretty cool stuff. And this X2 performance stuff comes inlike a shot. You drink it down and yeah, you do it like a half hour
  21. 21. before you work out or you race or whatever and it’s literally likedrinking ATP so that’s d-ribose. The only side-effects I’ve seenwith it, and I’ve looked all over the place for side-effects was thatif you overdose on it, we’re talking about like 60 gram doses, youcan get a little bit of diarrhea and also because it’s negative on theglycemic index, you can also get hypoglycemia if you overdosewith it. But ultimately, the benefits of this stuff far outweigh therisks in my opinion and…Brock: You’d have to get really carried away to get the negative effects.Ben: You would have to have like a crack cocaine booze-induced d-ribose party and just do like a bender of d-ribose for a week tooverdose. But yeah. Check out the stuff. If you get the chance, tryout the extra performance. I think, I’m checking the sea because Iknow we have a discount code for it where you get like 10 bucksoff or something like that. Yeah, it’s Greenfield. Use codeGreenfield, you get 10 bucks off Check it out.Best way to get d-ribose in my opinion.Eric: Ben, I’m enjoying your Superhuman DVD seminar I bought onDVDs. They’re pretty excellent but I was listening to Ray Croniseand he mentioned a scale. He mentioned it twice but I couldn’tfind it, I couldn’t find it in any of the show notes. Do you knowwhat kind of scale he was talking about? I think he said itmeasures the resting metabolic rate possibly. It seem like he saidlike it was a Y-Rain something scale and I try to google and Icouldn’t find it so I was wondering if you knew what kind of scaleit was and two if you have a website where I could visit it. So like,get more information on it. Thanks.Brock: You know I actually have a memory of people asking the samequestion during the conference. I was manning the livefeed thatwas going out to all the people who were watching at home and Iremember the question coming up.Ben: Yeah, it’s, it’s….Brock: What was Ray talking about?Ben: It’s the sexiest scale in the planet and I’m not a fan of scales by theway. I do not use a scale. I haven’t stepped on a scale in a really
  22. 22. long time. I did a promo video a couple of years ago for a scalethat I was sent to analyze and it was cool and everything. It wasone of those body fat tracking scales that hooks up to yourcomputer and stuff but I just I think I got burnt out on scaleswhen I was like body building and I was having to like make weighand stuff and now I just go by the way I feel and occasionally Ipinch a little bit of fat that’s right above your hip bone and that’susually how I can tell if I’m eating too much is if I can get a big oldpinch of fat I usually dial back on how much I’m eating and that’slike..Brock: Right above your hip bone?Ben: It’s my super…Brock: In the front? Or right on the sides?Ben: In the front. In the front.Brock: So not back fat?Ben: No, not back fat. Like right in front of your hip kinda so that’swhere I pinch and if I get a big old pinch, them you know, andthat’s, that’s just my qualitative way to measure my body fat.Brock: I like it.Ben: Super scientific.Brock: Totally.Ben: And then anyways though, it’s a withings scale. W-i-t-h-i-n-g-swithings scale and I believe the one that Ray is called the SmartBody Analyzer. So you step on the scale, it gives you your heartrate and it gives you your body fat. I believe it gives you yourwater saturation values. It actually checks the indoor air qualitythrough temperature and carbon dioxide measurements andbuilds a CO2 level graph that shows you the air quality of whereyou’re at or the air quality of your home which I’m not really surehow practical that is ‘cause you can’t like move your home.
  23. 23. Brock: No.Ben: But anyways, it shows you the….Brock: If it’s really, really bad you might want to consider it I guess.Ben: You might want to, yeah. Put a plant in your bedroom. It hooks upto a bunch of different apps like runkeeper app, then you know, allthese apps that you can use to pair it with so you could keep trackof your body fat and your weight and everything in that way. Youknow, if you’re data nerd, I think it’s kinda cool. For me, I’m kindaa data nerd but because I travel so much, I have to use data that Ican take with me and I can’t really, I guess I can put a scale on mycarry on but you know, I don’t. But anyways, it’s a withings scale.We’ll put our handy-dandy amazon link to it in the show notes soyou can put a few dollars in our hat if you by a withings scalefollowing the link in the show notes but that’s what it is. Withingsscale.Brock: I hate to ask how much one of those things would cost.Ben: I think it’s like 200 bucks no, it’s 149.Brock: Awesome.Ben: The one stop health tracking scale. The Smart Body AnalyzerWs50. My illudium q-46 explosive space modulator. So you cangrab the withings scale and I’ll also put a link to those DVDs causeI think we’ve got like, I wanna say right around 30 DVD sets leftfrom the Superhuman Conference. Those get shipped to yourhouse, they’re like 27 bucks, I think. So we’ll put a link in the shownotes if you wanna snake some DVDs for whatever, you know,watch them during the summer.Michael: Hey Ben, my name is Michael. I am a combat rescue pilot flyingthe hh 60. It’s a pave hawk helicopter and during this previousdeployment, just about 2 weeks ago, I got a herniated discbetween the L4 L5 series. So I had to come home ‘cause there’snothing they could do for me there. I’m starting physical therapynext week with a guy who’s part of the Ironman network. He doesART, dry needling, decompression, manipulation, stuff like that,
  24. 24. so he’s gonna be a good guy. I have a 100 miler in September I’mdoing followed by Ironman Florida in November and a few otherraces after that. Just curious what your suggestions are that I cando on my own such as exercise, supplements that might be of helpto get through it. The pains are not too severe. I’m still outrunning 8-10 miles every morning and still run and bike. I liftweights and what not just while sitting down for long periods oftime, just wanna get the most amount of pain so any of yourthoughts would be currently appreciated. Thanks.Brock: Okay, herniated disc. Doesn’t sound like fun.Ben: Yeah and Michael is the combat rescue pilot who actually sent mea flag from one of his missions. I’ve got a big flag actually in myliving room and it’s one that Michael sent so what’s up Michael?Brock: Very cool.Ben: Thanks again for sending that over. We’re recording this afterMemorial Day but again, huge, huge thanks, huge amount ofgratitude for all the service men and women who are out thereprotecting us and securing our freedom so.Brock: We throw you a salute.Ben: A salute. What do you do in Canada, salute? Do you guys do likea….Brock: We moon each other.Ben: A drop kick. You just moon each other. Okay, so you’re doing a lotof the right stuff Michael I mean active release therapy and dryneedling, and you know decompression. We actually talked aboutdecompression in Dr. Ho’s Decompression Belt in podcast episode224 and we’ll link to that in the show notes becausedecompression belts along with inversion tables can actually helpout quite a bit in a situation like this. But what we’re talking aboutis kinda like temporary alleviation of pain right? And, you know,taking the pressure off of a herniated disc vs. healing the actualarea. So I’ve got a few other band-aid ideas for you. One would beto go and listen also to podcast episode number 235 where Brock
  25. 25. and I talked quite a bit about getting rid of nerve pain and wespecifically talked about the type of compounds that you couldinclude in your diet that are going to help either with nerve painor help to heal nerves. One was a high omega-3 fatty acid andgamma linoleic acid intake and making sure to include what’scalled borage oil with that. So you could use a really good, highquality fish oil so there’s fish oil’s cameo. Once again, in thispodcast, but that good high quality fish oil also natural painkillers. I’m a big big fan of phenocane for this. That’s kinda mynatural recommendation as an alternative to ibuprofen. Andphenocane is basically a mix of curcumin which is the activeingredient in turmeric. It’s got boswellia in it which is a COX-2inhibitor meaning it down regulates the amount of pain producingprostaglandins that you make. It’s got some dlpa in it. D,L-Phenylalanine that has the ability to help your body maintainhigher levels of seratonin so it turns out more of the brains feelgood hormone. And it’s also got nattokinase in it which has someblood clot dissolving abilities. Again that’s a band-aid but it’ssomething that have had people pop you know, right around 4-8every couple of hours during like a hard event and it can at leastcontrol pain without literally, you know, kicking your liver andyour kidneys and causing endotoxemia and all this stuff thatibuprofen and advil can create when you’re out exercising andtrying to control pain. So that’s another thing that I’d considerwould be using phenocane whereas veratril has some goodefficacy as well in controlling nerve pain in a situation like thislike a high-dose resveratrol and glutathione would be the last onethat you may find in handy.[0:50:15.7]Glutathione is something that your body can make itself if you’reusing like a good, cold processed natural whey protein. You canalso get glutathione like the bulletproofexec. They make like aliposomal glutathione you can spray under your tongue. None ifthese stuff is going to stop the pain thought, right, or heal theissue. It’s all gonna be a band-aid and I’ll certainly put a link to allof these band-aids in the show notes, you know if you’ve got a racecoming up and you just need a nip stuff in the bud and minimizepain as quickly as possible for something like back pain or injury,this is all the stuff that can work to stop nerve pain and kinda turn
  26. 26. off pain. But there are some other things that I would, that I’drecommend. The first is if you’re trying to heal this thing, youknow, David Minkoff, whose been on this podcast multiple times,I’ll put a link to the episode that he did with us on How to StopChronic Pain but he runs the Lifeworks Wellness Center down inFlorida and he has a lot of different protocols that he does at thewellness center down there but one of them is stem cell therapyand when I say stem cell therapy, I’m not talking about thetraditional use of stem cells that involves actual surgery but thereare actually, there are oral kinda stem cell precursors that you canuse. So stem cell implantations are medical procedures that areadministered by doctors and it’s like injections of stem cells andcell precursors to injured areas to massively increase healing in anarea but you know, it’s expensive and kinda hard to get access toin some situations so imagine especially if you’re you know, acombat pilot, you’re overseas and something like that. Celltherapy is usually administered via injectibles or incapsulated likein soft gels. And what cell therapy is is basically mixes of stuff thatenhances your body’s own ability to heal itself via the samemechanism that stem cells would. The one that Dr. Minkoffrecommended, and this was another one at the SuperhumanConference a bunch of people were “what did he say? What did hesay?” and I wrote it down, it’s called Celergen, c-e-l-e-r-g-e-n. It’sa cellular marine complex that’s mixed with collagen and what’scalled a hydropeptide and marine complexes actually can beextremely protective against cellular oxidative damage but havesome pretty potent healing properties too. And when you combinethat with collagen, which helps to reinforce connective tissuehydration and elasticity, and peptide which plays a critical role inthe regeneration of cartilage, this stuff can be pretty efficacious.I’ve never personally bought it, I don’t know where to get it, I’mjust kinda pointing you in the right direction but it’s calledcelergen. I’ll put a link to Dr. David Minkoff’s Lifeworks WellnessCenter in the show notes if you wanna maybe try to hunt himdown and see if you can get a link to it or you know, I don’t knowif you need a prescription for it or much about it but it’s basicallylike oral stem cell therapy. So that would be one thing that youcould look into as a way of shutting off pain. Now, if you didwanna go, you know, if you get the chance at some point in yourlife and you just put your foot down and you’re like I wanna getrid of this forever, that when I would start to look into something
  27. 27. like a minimal invasive spine surgery technique that uses stem celltherapy. The one that I’m aware of is called regenadisc and that’ and it’s a combination of low-level laser,spinal decompression of the disc along with regenerative stem celltherapy in a surgical setting. And that’s supposed to be extremelyefficacious, much much common in Europe. You can’t get it in theStates but it’s something that if you just want kinda morepermanent healing, not just a band-aid, I highly recommend thatyou look into. So that’d be one to check out as well and I’ll put alink to that in the show notes. The last thing that you shouldconsider would be more of a mental approach. And there’s thistechnique out there that’s really, really cool. It’s called neuro-linguistic programming and you can use it for pain relief. Thereare pain receptors in your brain and if you can manage your brain,it’s possible for you to reduce and eliminate pain temporarily incertain sections of your body when you need to just shut off pain.So you learn with neuro-linguistic programming with how tocommunicate with certain body parts so you have thepsychological parts of your body that actually form the pain so ifyour shoulder is experiencing pain then you can learn how tocommunicate with that pain using the link between your brainand your shoulder and I know this stuff sounds whoo whoo, don’tworry, I’m gonna tell you how you can learn more in a second.[0:55:11.2]And you can get extreme stress relief and tension relief and youcan actually use this stuff to massively improve sportsperformance as well. Here’s the deal, here’s what I’m gonna dobecause I’ve gotten some questions about this from listeners. Itseems like we’re always dealing with pain and pain managementso I am actually going to personally, this Friday, meet with one ofthe top neuro-linguistic programmers on the face of the planet.His name is Andy Murphy. He works with high high level athletes,professional athletes, CEOs, you know, multi-millionaire businessowners and world champions, MMA stars, and trauma survivors,the royal family. Like this guy, is at the top level for NLP.Brock: That’s awesome that the royal family is in that list of people.
  28. 28. Ben: Hey, you know what, we… hey the Royal Family likes to throwmoney at the best, right. So this guy is good. And he…Brock: I also engage in massive fights occasionally….Ben: Oh yeah…Brock: Just beep each other….Ben: I’m just saying. I’m just saying. So dude, we gotta be careful. Wecan’t mark this podcast as explicit or we’ll lose all our familylisteners.Brock: I’ll bleep it. Don’t worry. Sorry mom.Ben: Anyways though, his name is Andy Murphy, but I approached him and he agreedto do a video recorded NLP session with me.Brock: Cool.Ben: So I’m gonna record the whole thing. It may involves somehypnosis, it will definitely involve some neuro-linguisticprogramming, it will involve, if anything, a high entertainmentlevel as you laugh at me being neuro-linguistically programmed,and I’m gonna release it because I’m actually gonna be in anairplane to Japan next week. Next week’s special podcast episodeis going to be me getting the hell on neuro-linguisticprogramming out of me so you can get the chance to check thatout.Brock: Cool. So the only thing I worry about, especially for Michael who’sgot a herniated disc, if he ignores the pain or masks the pain ormakes the pain disappear, is he going to put himself at risk ofdoing some worst damage?Ben: He is.Brock: A straight-up yes.
  29. 29. Ben: Yeah, but I mean, you know, how many of us have been signed upfor a marathon or an Ironman or whatever and realized that we’renot gonna be 100% going in? And there does come a time whenyou just kinda hack the pain, figure out a way to switch it off, foryou to mask it a little bit, figure out a way to push through thediscomfort and yeah, you wind up sometimes in a worst conditionthan you were when you started but you know, if that’s part ofthe….Brock: If it’s important enough to you….Ben: If it’s part of the adventure that you call life and you’re willing toyou know, take one really, really fun step forward or really, reallyengaging or challenging a fulfilling step forward and you know itmight mean you take 2 steps back, you know, if that’s what makesyou happy, you know, I don’t have a problem with it as long asyou’re not hurting anybody except for yourself so.Brock: I guess. I just worry when it’s something like your spine.Ben: Yeah.Brock: Like more so than if it’s like your big toe.Ben: Yeah, I mean it’s not like it’s a fractured vertebra that’s you know,like cut off his spinal cord or make him paralyzed or somethinglike that. If anything, he’s just gonna have a lot more pain and atsome point, he’s probably gonna need surgery if he tries to pushthrough a 100 miler with back pains. So yeah, I’m glad you werethe person I brought it up and not me Brock but yeah, I meanthere always is that option to have just like take the year off andheal your body and then get back into it. So…Brock: Luckily, the race isn’t until September so you’ve got some time.Kick that thing Michael.Ben: There you go. Stem cell the heck out of it.Steph: Hi, I just wanna know if there’s any concern about training for amarathon when you have epilepsy in relation to maybe exertion ornutrition. Any help would be great. Thanks. Bye.
  30. 30. Ben: Well you could, this is an interesting question. Because exercisecan certainly help to control epilepsy and aerobic exercisespecifically has been shown to clearly benefit people with epilepsy.Just to…. Oh, we’re gonna edit that out.Brock: Tell me, 20 minutes later, the sneeze came.Ben: It was a delay. I warned you. It took you by surprise. So epilepsy.Yes, it’s definitely, multiple studies have shown it to notexasperbate…Brock: Exasperbate.Ben: Exasperbate. How do you say that? Seizures. But the only issue isthat if you did happen to have an epileptic incident while you wererunning, it becomes an issue with falling in the hard pavement oryou know, it’s not the same risk as like sky diving or rock climbingor scuba diving or something like that or even swimming. It’s likeyou, you know, if you fall and you’re running, you’re probably notgonna die but you could definitely you know, get a head injury oryou know, injure a wrist or a knee or something like that so youknow, there’s a little bit of risk involved but walking and joggingand running are relatively safe if you have epilepsy. I’d be carefulin something like a treadmill just because the motion of thetreadmill along with all the bright lights in the gym, TV, and stufflike that can potentially trigger something but you know,ultimately, the benefits outweigh the risks. Now, I couldn’trespond to a question about epilepsy without noting thatsomething we already mentioned in this podcast – the ketogenicdiet.[1:00:34.3]Brock: Ketogenic diet.Ben: That’s something that’s shown to control seizures in people withepilepsy. And if I were going to be training for a marathon withepilepsy, I would really be considering, you know, liberal use oflike medium change triglyceride oil and coconut oil, limitingcarbohydrates, potentially even using you know, a medium
  31. 31. change triglyceride oil derivative in your actual you know sportfuel to control epilepsy. Things of that nature. It’s interestingbecause there are some some underground talk like how Tour deFrance cyclists right now. A lot of them are experimenting withketone pills, full-on ketone fuels, and kinda tapping into thisenhanced aerobic efficiency that comes with shifting your bodyinto ketogenesis and obviously, you know, when you have ahammer, all the world looks like a nail or whatever that phrasegoes. But basically, for me, because I’m very intensively studyingketogenesis and in-ketogenesis right now. I’m seeing a lot of thebenefits of it but you know, with epilepsy, it really, really issomething that’s been studied quite a bit for epilepsy so. Youknow, the running is not an issue from a nutrition standpoint. Iwould really consider ketogenesis. From an excursion standpoint,I would try and recommend that you keep things aerobic, andthere’s no reason that you can’t you know, kinda find out what youwere threshold heart rate is, do most of your training sessions thatthreshold heart rate minus 20 beats. You can use a little bit moreof like a Maffetone type of training approach.Brock: That sounds… .Yeah.Ben: Aerobic training approach. Whereas, I’m not a huge fan of thatapproach if you’re time crunched or if you wanna get the mostbang for your buck from a time standpoint, you know, if you gotthe time to do it, you can do like a you know, an aerobic test, amaffetone aerobic test every 4 weeks or so to keep your aerobicheart rate identified and continually monitor your improvementsin speed at that aerobic heart rate, you know it’s certainly anefficacious way to train. It’s helped a lot of folks in enduranceplanet over at One of the podcastingnetworks that I own recently did a 2 and a half hour interviewwith Phil Maffetone that I listened to over the past couple of daysand it was freakin’ fantastic so.Brock: Yeah, I listened to that too the other day. I didn’t realize it wasthat long. It was that interesting, didn’t seem like it was 2 and ahalf hours.
  32. 32. Ben: Yeah. He’s a cool dude. He’s a cool dude. He has a presentation onSuperhuman DVDs as well. But yeah, that’s the type of trainingthat I do, if you were gonna do this.John: Hi Ben, John from Toronto. I just have a quick question onactually 2 questions. One on training effect. I’m not sure Iunderstand it correctly because either that or it’s not workingcorrectly on my Garmin. What happens is I can run in my zone 3for like an hour and a half and get a, you know, 4.5 training effectand then I could walk when it’s cold outside and get a trainingeffect of 5 which is overreaching so I’m not sure I understand it orif it’s really just bunk. Second thing is, I thought I actually havethe Sweet Beats, I do my heart rate variability. I noticed, actuallythe other day when you said that your heart rate variability was uparound 90, you should really be that, that’s something you reallywant to be working on that’s around 90. Mine is on average 60and I’m wondering if it’s based on who you are or maybe it’ssomething I should be really looking into to say you know, thatmaybe this should be significantly higher. Anyway, just appreciatethe show. You and Brock do a great job and thanks a lot.Brock: Yeah, I’ve noticed the training effect on my Garmin is oftenquestionable.Ben: As a Team Timex athlete I would get shot if I ever put on aGarmin again so I can’t say that I’ve noticed the training effect onmy Garmin. But the training effect is just a, it’s an algorithm thatyour Garmin uses to measure what’s called your excess post-exercise oxygen consumption. So as you exercise during aworkout, you reach a state where you’re using oxygen morequickly than you could actually replace it through ventilation. Andthere is a correlation between excess post exercise oxygenconsumption, or in this case, oxygen consumption during theactual work out, predicting what your post-exercise oxygen thatwould be, and you can correlate that to heart rate.[1:05:09.2]So that’s all the training effect does, is the Garmin keeping trackof the heart beat measurements, it’s correlating that to oxygenconsumption and then based off of your approximation of oxygenconsumption, it’s kicking out a training effect number meaning
  33. 33. that the higher the training effect, the higher the likelihood thatit’s going to enhance your cardio respiratory fitness. Just becauseyou are going to have to replace all that oxygen after you finishedworking out, and you’re stressing your ventilatory muscles andyour cardio-vascular system more during a training effect. Youknow, there’s a variety of different ways you could monitor theintensity of a workout. You could use this training effect which is a1-5 scale. You could use you know, what’s called an intensityfactor which is more common in, if you’re using like trainingpeaks. You could use a training stress core which is kind of acombination of your heart rate, your speed, and the time that youspent training. You could use just like your breath scale on yourown perceived riding of excursion. I mean, ultimately, like there’sso many different ways that you can track intensity out there and Igotta be honest with you, like lately, and I’ve got access to likeevery timepiece that Timex has ever made. Like I’ve goteverything. I’ve got a run trainer, a cycle trainer, 300 dollarwatches and everything, ever since I read that book by Bud Coatesthe Running on Air, I’ve basically just been doing 2 things whenI’m out running. I either use that aerobic 32 breathing patternmeaning 3 breaths in, or I’m sorry. 1 breath in, for 3 counts, ohgosh I’m messing it up.Brock: What?Ben: I’m closing my eyes, imagining myself running so I try toremember…Brock: Yeah.Ben: How it’s done ‘cause I’m now having a hard time describing it.Okay so you’re trying to breathe out more when your foot hits theground so you take a breath in, for 3 foot strikes and a breath outfor 2 foot strikes. And a breath in for 3 foot strikes, a breath outfor 2 foot strikes. It’s really awkward when you start doing it, nowI just do it naturally. So that’s your aerobic pace and then if youwanna go a little bit harder, it’s 1 breath in for every 2 foot strikesand 1 breath out for 1 foot strike. O it’s 2 in, 1 out. And if you reallyreally wanna go hard, it’s 2 in, 1 out, 1 in, 1 out. And that’s like, Ihave not been using my watch, like all I’m doing is work on thatbreathing and for me it’s just relaxing. Like when I finish a long
  34. 34. day of work and I just don’t wanna strap a heart rate monitor, allthat jazz on, I just go out and run and listen to my breath and it’squite relaxing and combining that book, that Running on Air bookwith the John Douillard’s Body, Mind, and Sport Book has reallychanged my workouts pretty significantly. I think I mentioned thisin the last podcast episode but combining rhythmic breathingwith deep nasal breathing, I’m planning on doing that all duringIronman frankly, for Ironman Canada. I’m going to try and keepthat nasal breathing protocol all the way up to the final 10k atwhich I’ll pull the rip cord and go to the pain cave. But yeah, it’scool stuff so.Brock: Very cool.Ben: And then the….Brock: So then the second half of the question was about the Sweet beatheart rate variability.Ben: Yeah.Brock: He said you keep yours around 90 and if it drops too much loweryou get kinda concerned about that.Ben: Well, Sweet Beat, which is the app that I use to measure my heartrate variability every morning, they recently refined their heartrate variability calculation. Because myself and some otherathletes were doing it, we were maxing out their heart ratevariability reading so it was always at 100 just because thenervous system of an athlete tends to be more tuned than thenervous system of the average population and their algorithm wasbased on the general population so they redid their algorithm, Iactually got emails from a bunch of folks, some of the athletes Iwas working with who were tracking HRV, some folks who wereusing the Sweet Beat measurement, they’re all freaking out causeall of a sudden….Brock: Cause all of a sudden they dropped.Ben: Their scores all dropped cause they redid the calculation. So whatyou need to do, if you were using that and you noticed that you
  35. 35. need to redo your baseline heart rate variability measurement,and then know that its gonna be a lot harder to reach a hundred.Like since they redid that calculation, I never reached a hundred.What I found in myself as well as watching athletes I’m workingwith who were doing those daily measurements and sending metheir values and then we could track things like injury, illness,how they feel, their perform, how their workout looks that day,their speed, and power, and heart rate, what you’ll find in mostcases is once your heart rate variability is dropping consistentlybelow 80, that’s a pretty good sign that you really need to becareful with hard training like anaerobic training, things of thatnature. And if I have any days where I go below 80, that’s kindalike my new 90 with the new Sweet Beat measurements, so if Idrop below 80 on any day, that is a sign of concern to me and I’mvery careful with my training that day, I’ll also do yoga andmeditation and kinda see if I can bring that heart rate variabilityback up and sometimes I can.[1:10:21.0]Like this morning, I tested at 73. And so, I felt great but I waskinda wondering why I tested at 73 and I think it was because Iwas checking my email during the test like I was on, I had ithooked up on my phone but I was going through emails on myphone so I put my phone down and I just closed my eyes andleaned back into the pillow and started doing nasal breathing anddid a retest and I was at 84 after 5 minutes. So sometimes, it’s notyou being beat up, it’s just in the moment being stressed out sokinda be aware of that. But yeah, 60 is too low. Like, in myopinion you shouldn’t be beating up your body unless you’re 80 orhigher and otherwise you need to fix your nervous system, youknow, do some relaxation, and then retest. So that’s myrecommendation for that.Brock: That’s a good recommendation.Ben: We are just a chalk full of recommendations.Brock: Alright.Ben: So.
  36. 36. Brock: Okay. So.Ben: I wanna read a review. We get a review.Brock: It’s time to read a review from iTunes. If you haven’t left a reviewor ranking, you don’t even have to write something, just click onthe little stars and give us 5.Ben: No. You gotta write something.Brock: Okay.Ben: You gotta write something.Brock: I’m just trying to be forgiving. But if you do write something andit’s really cool then Ben will read it in a funny voice.Ben: Yeah. Well fitbritmom wrote to me. She’s the gal whose review weread in the English cockney Australian accent last week. She wassuper super… I actually sent her, I sent her a book and a bunch ofsupplements yesterday. So yeah, everybody who leaves a review,we read it on air, I send you a care package. Usually like 40, 50bucks worth of just free stuff so anyways, so what I picked todaywas reviewed by James Skilo. I think his name is James Skilo. AndJames says, “a wealth of knowledge..” star star star star star. 5stars, boom.Brock: Yay.Ben: He says, “there’s no way I could keep up on all the research onfitness and nutrition but Ben does. This is a great way to becomeeducated on fitness science and practical applications.” Here’swhat I like. He says, “the podcasts are fairly long so I listen at 1.5times speed.” So Brock and I have a special request. Can you playwith it would sound like for us at 1.5 speed for the listeners justfor us talking, right now.Brock: For the rest of the episode I’ll do it at 1 and a half time?Ben: Sound like chipmunks or little mice?
  37. 37. Brock: I’ll do it.Ben: So. Sweet. Alright, that’s getting close to the end. Be sure to go tobengreenfieldfit.. I do have one other thing for you by the way.But first..Brock: Oh yeah. We got a song.Ben: That’s right. Go to if you wannaspread the love on….Brock: Spread the love.Ben: Whatever way you would like. In a safe and clean manner. Andyou can also go to to check out theshow notes for this episode and also the handy-dandy my list thatwe create for each episode which is just like clickable links,resources, stuff like that.Brock: For people who don’t like to read and just want to look at prettypictures.Ben: Like pictures. And then, yeah. The last thing is that when I wassitting around with my kids at dinner, was it last night? No, it was2 nights ago, they wanted to go see Ironman 3. And they’re 5 yearold twin boys River and Terran and so I told them that they couldgo if they could basically raise money for their own movie tickets.Brock: They’re 5.Ben: And they’re 5. And so they wanted to draw pictures and recordsongs and sell them.Brock: Oh okay.Ben: So right after dinner, they recorded a very short but sweet albumcalled “The Clownies.” They came up with that name. Clownies.Brock: I like it.Ben: And it’s $1.99 and it’s 4 different audio tracks you can downloadbut Terran has a song that he sang and we’re gonna play it for you
  38. 38. right now and if you like this sample of “The Clownies,” you canget the whole album all, I guess probably about 3 minutes worthof songs for $1.99 then teach my boys a nice lesson aboutentrepreneurship. So.Brock: And send them to see Ironman 3.Ben: There you go. So here’s Terran with “Wishing on a Star.”[1:16:00.5]Anonymous: Ben, I completed my first Ironman on Texas a week ago and yourbook Holistic Fueling for Ironman, your blog and your advicemade it a success for me. From fueling with the UCAN, Energy 28,the amino acid supplements, to your advice, on the meetingcouple of weeks before the race, in the steam room to the recoveryon the ice top were fantastic. I’m thrilled about this I know Icouldn’t have done it without your help. Thank you so much.