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  • 1. Interviewer: Welcome to the last podcast. Today I am speaking with Christine Coh, co-author of minimalist parenting. Hi Christine. Christine: Hey, how are you? Interviewer: Great. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk me. So first of all can you just tell everybody,youknowin15-20 secondswhat minimalist parenting is because we are going to get into a lot of details, so. Christine: Yeah, absolutely. Minimalist parenting I should say maybe perhaps it's not; it's not about livingwith one chair or no toilet paper. Ocean and I really believe in toilet paper. But it's really a book aboutlifestyleeditingandonhowto dofree up,degrees free up inyourlife sothat youcan focuson the things that you care about and are awesome to you and let go of the rest. Interviewer:Soanybodyhaseverlistenedtothis show shouldknow thatthat's almost the exact kind of credothat I believe.Sothisisa, thisisa reallythis isgoingbe a goodconversation.Sohow didthiscome about for so how did, how did were you, how many kids you have? Christine:I have two. Like I have a toddler very rambunctious toddler two year old and a nine year old and yeahit'sa biggap and youknow Oceanand I have bothbeenbloggingfora longtime and you know over time not that we have similar philosophies about things. But over time as each of us were so separatelypostingaboutadifferentwayof doingthings,awayof takingthingsdowna notch,takingyou knowpointthe reinsbacka bit,our readershipyouknow separate readershipswouldn't really respond, it was almost this feeling of oh it's okay to do this. You know I sort of need is a confirmation that it's okayto do thisand we didn't, I hadthe ideaforthisbooka few years ago and when I asked her to write the bookwithme she youknow said yes and it was just the most wonderful partnership we ended up. We just have a lot of shared philosophies and ended up having a really, really wonderful working partnership on it. Interviewer: Right and, and I'm so just to be credit wise, so you’re caught in xxx02:03, right and. Christine: XXX02:04 yes, Interviewer: Yeah, parent hack switch. I have actually sort of, I have link to before. So really cool blog and its really cool vibrations you guys got to take advantage of, so how many kids does she have? Christine: She has two. Her kids are, although I think there are 10-13 they are about so, you know our plans for a little bit different on kind of what the priorities were and you know twins and so it’s a different ballgame. Interviewer: Right Christine: So you could cover that cover the spectrum of babies to twins which was good. Interviewer:Cool,ok.Sofirstof all I am nothing,ImeanI have yourkindof anybodywhoeitherhas kids or thinkingaboutkidsreadthe bookbut withoutrehashingtoomuch.I do wantto discuss several of the
  • 2. concepts you go over in your writing. The first one you tell me about it is food. So I think that meal planningisalreadydifficultenoughforsinglepeople.Itseemstobe verydifficultforpeople whoare just couples and have busy jobs. But what do you tell people you know who, who just sort of throw the ir handsup and theydon'tthinkthat theycan have home cooked meals when they have kids and it's just too hard. Christine: YeahI mean itis challengingandyouknow I shouldsaythatyou know we have this book and for me it's still it'salwayseverydayisa workinprogressyouknow you don'tjust haven'tsorted out one day.But withthe foodI thinkyouknowtwo majorthingsone isto automate kind of the pieces that you can automate. So I wrote this first one definitely calling it crackpots are sexy. You know it really is, I actually have a, one of my older daughter is a vegetarian, my younger one has a bunch of allergies. So even though I am a firm believer in like one meal, everybody gets one meal sometimes its little changing.Sothingslike crackpots,where youcanautomate thingsare reallyimportant. The second one which point that I have which is a bigger challenge for parents and I think is so important is to really bringyour kids in the kitchen when you can and have them work with you. You know I've had both my girlsinthe kitchenwithme from very early on and now my nine-year-old she can make chocolate cake from scratch, she's made us dinner. I mean there, there is payoff to everything your kid in these important life skills. It’s really, really important. Interviewer: That's really cool. So one of the things I am often recommending for people with family whose is part of my batching fundamental where I tell people that maybe they should just spend a Sunday for a couple hours in making all the lunches for the week, for instance and making xxx04:28 freeze and divide them up rather than having the scramble at the end of the day to try to really stress and figure outwhattheyare goingto make eachtime.OK,so that makesa lotof sense.One of the ones that I am personally interested in is since I have three kids now and I basically resigned myself to not even consider this for at least a year but traveling. Christine:Ohyeah.You knowI meanobviouslyyouthree, three is different. You are outnumbered but your zone defense is a call right. Interviewer: Right. Christine: Yeah I mean I actually see, I kind of a fan of I traveled a lot when my older one is very easy, the younger one I travelled a lot when she was a baby. Because you know you just got to hoist her up and take heraround.Travelingwithtoddlersisdefinitely a bit different. I'm not particularly interested right now in doing like across-country on airplane trip with either xxx05:23. However I will say that we've done acouple of like overnight,maybetwohourmax drive type trips lately and she's been great. You knowI findactuallythatmy little one whoisdefinitelythe rambunctiousone iswaybetterbehaved when we're on the road and going somewhere and seeing different things. Its, it's been, I have been experiment with this a lot lately and it’s actually especially inspired me to do more travel. I think you know,I thinktravel ingeneral is wonderful for kids and for families but for her personally in particular it's really going to be away from home.
  • 3. Interviewer: That’s very interesting. I try to experiment particularly but. So what one other thing obviouslythere'sahuge componentthatcomesup withevenwhere ourkidsbutespecially kids it's sort of thatwork-life balance.SoIfor instance,mywife andIare justnow basicallygoingtoconsiderputting, not consider we are going to be putting my older son into daycare a couple days a week and we both workat home andwe're botharound all time. But we've actually been finding like them he needs that sort of being around with the kids not so much us. So I found that it was hard for me to like xxx06:39 and I have a trip coming up in a couple of days where I am going to be gone for three days and it's the first time I've ever been away that long from any of my kids and.. Christine: Oh well. Yeah. Interviewer: It’s like really hard. Yeah it's really hard. So people have that obviously ever have that experience todifferentdegreesandatthe veryleastyouknow can be feelings of guilt about wanting to work or wanting to still pursue the things that you wanted to pursue or new ideas you can come up with. You know lots of people have startups and they have kids and they have high-powered jobs and their kids. So how do you, first of all psychologically and emotionally how do you sort of, you know Coach People on that. How they can look at these things? Christine: Yeah I mean I think it’s the, that first transition of when you’re sending a child to daycare or whatever it may be is really hard. So I mean I would say definitely xxx07:29 -07:31, you may be, there may be tears in the parking lot, and they may be yours. So or they could be your kids and you know that's normal and expectedandeverykidwill be different.Imeanmyfirstbombboth of my kidsare and were inyouknowday care. I've alwaysworkedandthe firstone itwouldbe sobbing and crying drop off something really the drop off that no parent wants to have, the second one you know basically runs afterthe toys and ignoresme whenIleave.Soit’sgoingbe a differentadifferentexperience.ButImean I thinkthat youknowI'm a firmbelieverin,in on I've got an entrepreneurial spirit like you do and I'm a firmbelieverinrunningafterthe thingsthatlight you up and bring you joy and for me well I should say that my worklife hasnotalwaysbeen thatas in myformerlife Iwasa musicbraineror scientistandwas not really into that work very much. But since becoming you know freelancing journalist kind of multimedia creative tech projects that work really does light me up and so it's important for me to go intothingslike I think it's important for kids to see their parents have passion for things and you know creative ideasandyouknowI knowthat mygirlsespeciallymyolderone,Imeannow she says stuff like youknowwhenI growup I want to workwithyouand I wantto be a designer with you and things and I justfeel like she'slearningthatyouknow she can,it soundsa little cheesyABC after school special. But you know she's really learning that. She can kind of identify something and go after and I find that incredibly exciting. Interviewer: Absolutely I, there is a statistic that I always used to recall when I was younger because I startedmy firstcompanywhen I was 12 and burnt-out and both my parents are entrepreneurs and the quote was and I think it was from the nifty, the National foundation for xxx09:25. But basically it said that something like 75 percent of the entrepreneurs came from households where the father was physicallyoremotionallyabsentandthe motherwasoverbearing.Sothere isthe,thatrightaway I think soundslike abad thing but it really actually I think comes out as a good thing because the father being
  • 4. physically emotionally absent means that you're sort of they're probably absent for reason hopefully youknowmaybe theyare workingordoingsomethingbetter. Itgivesyousomethingtosortof strive for I guess and then the mother being overbearing means you sort of have a cushion that means like you can't do something wrong. So I feel like that's a perfect squeeze for entrepreneurs in a way. But the pointisI completelyagree thatshowing leading by example is probably one of the best things you can do. And quite honestly it's probably one of the easiest things that you can do rather than trying to manufacture something or teach something that you don't like doing. Christine: Right and you had mentioned the sort of desire self-realize to for, you know your son and I thinkthat's,it isI meanit isgreat to me especiallyImeanyouhave alot of, now you have three kids but since the two of them the two younger ones are probably getting and in need of a lot of attention I meanthat seemslike alsoagoodtime forhimto kindof go andmakesnew xxx10:41 and I'm a fan I am I think if you also feel the right place you know xxx10:45 for violet the little one is just wonderful. She actually talks about her friends there and she's two-years-old. So it's, it's really it's nice. Interviewer:Yeahand we actuallyfoundareallynice place a bit and that was another interesting thing whichI'm sure youhave a take on especiallysince yousome daycare is there's everyone seems to have pros andcons about havinginnannyor having are going to daycare or all the different methods of sort of other than parent child care. And we had a mother's helper for while which was great which is basicallyisanactual pairof hands.But againyou know we were bothhome andit wouldmake itdifficult for myolderson if we, like he don't want to be left with anybody. If we were there, why we would he play with the other person. So I actually originally used to be really kind of not afraid but just taken aback by daycare because Iwas like Wow,you know I'm here like why wouldn't we just have someone else in a xxx11:37 all day. But its, it’s actually a really interesting option and I think it’s kind of magical the one that we found. Christine: Yeah I mean for the, for younger one and its I got to say the reality is it is expensive and so you need to, well in Boston, in the Boston area its really expensive and so Interviewer: Less than a nanny for us. Christine: Oh really yeah and I think, I mean often at times a nanny solution works if you got multiple kids and you know you can sort of get the benefit of more kids. But for us our kids are so far apart that the other ones in elementary school and not worry about paying for that anymore and then you know the youngerone,thiswasjustthe right optionforher.She needstoget outof the house,she likesbeing out anddoingthingsand she'sclearlylike the adventurer.Soyou know it's good, I mean it's going to be different for different children too. Interviewer: Of course and by the way we have an adventurous side to my, my wife's mile, so I'm actually the crier if we are going to drop off a kid. My wife's biggest concern is that our son is going to run away because he climbs everything and he likes open fire doors. Christine: He's resourceful, he's resourceful.
  • 5. Interviewer: Yeah, so okay, so shifting a little bit. I want to talk about, a little bit about schedules but more for the adult side. So is sleep is one thing which I actually don't want to get to but work wise did youfindyourself waydesignating sort of pockets of time that were work time in the beginning before they were xxx13:02. Christine: Yeah I mean I think it always is a challenge but I think it's very important, you know one especiallyif you're,if you're working out of home in some way to carve out specific windows and have that help. And it’s also really helpful to have a door to close to sort of separate because in our, in our last flat. Interviewer: Really slippery stairs. Christine:Yeahyou knowinour lastflatmy office was in the dining room and, Oh it was just a disaster. But now you know I am in office, I close the door and you know actually on Wednesdays my mom is here with the girls after school and I can hear, you know Violet is saying "my mom will come down at 5:30". You know she know, but you know she knows like not to go beyond the door. So yeah I mean I thinkyoudo needto,youreallydoneedtocarve out thingsand I actually find such a productivity guy. I mean I think that when you have really defined pockets of time you can just be really focused and uninterruptedyouknow, carvedout,you got helpyoucan justpowerthrough stuff and that's how I am unlike the laser focused person and I maximize the time that I have. So I can just be, I can be more present you know when I, when I'm off the clock you know with work and with the kids. Interviewer: Yes I, I'm the same way. I mean for the longest time I was scheduling all the meetings between you know eleven and one which was my older son's nap time. Christine: That’s xxx14:26 Interviewer: Yeah and I've done several calls and a couple of interviews like this with a baby and a xxx14:32. Christine: I understand yeah. Interviewer: But of course you know 8 p.m. and on hour which fortunately for me was the time that worked best for writing. But no, it's a very good point and I talk about this a lot, this is actually what I wantedtoget to because Iknowyou mentionedabout multitasking in your book and one of the things that I'm alwayspushing people on is to sort of avoid this gearshift mentality where you are constantly switchingbackandforth between task and it's very easy I feel like for people to be like, oh I can check my email alongplayingwith the kid or something. But your focus tends to drift from one to the other I feel like. Christine: Oh yeah Interviewer: So it is very hard yeah. I mean you can certainly work things out. You can you know, you can probably make phone calls while you're playing you know in a park with the kids. But realistically beingable toseparate themandsay, okaylookI am goingto do this forminutes and then I'm go do that
  • 6. isn’tbetter.Soyouhave a whole sectiononmulti,youknow acouple of paragraphs on multitasking. So just speak about that a little bit. Christine:YeahI mean,I am at the risk of soundinglike some peopleare in xx15:35 some people aren't. But it,to thislanguage butI really,really feel like its valuable to both the grownups and kids if you can be present in whatever it is you're doing. So if you're at work you know be there and you know when your kids you know be there. And you know I'm not perfect I struggle with it if I know I've got a client like overmyheadand I'm concernedaboutthat,that is definitely inmymind.ButyeahIreallytryto, my husbandandI, youknowdo sort of devicesoff likeatdinnerandafterdinner so that before bedtime to try to kindof carve that out.Andyou know evenwithmytwogirls,now I have realized toIdon’tknow if youwill come up againstthiswhenyourkidsget a little olderto andsort of more kindof protective with theirtime withyou. ButI foundthat whenthe babycame my older one end up getting the short end of the sticklike andso actuallynow I have carved out one day a week after school where it’s the blocking off inmy meetinglike inmy calendarlike ourcurrentmeeting every Thursday afternoon and it's just us and we are together and I actually hash tag it that says with Laurel and sometimes I like close the projectsandyou knowit'sgreat thoughisthat I didthat as a joke.Butthenpeople askedme whatisthis Thursday with Laurel thing and I told them and other people started doing it and I was so happy. You knowpeople were realizingthatits,itcan be challengingtodoone-on-onetime withyourkidsbut even an hour or you know two hours is incredibly meaningful for them and, you know the stuff they remember. Interviewer: Well and the hash and thing. I actually tell people if they, it's not a bad thing for you to schedule personaltime.It doesn't mean that you’re that you're like an OCD crazy workaholic. It means that you're an efficient person that is used to scheduling time. Christine: Oh yeah. Interviewer: So why wouldn’t you schedule that time to be free to do things. I think you call it serendipity moments Right. Christine: Uhmm. Interviewer:Soit's,I thinkthat's a very,veryreasonable wayto pursuitstuff.Like youhave to,if you are going to expect yourself to be in a productive mindset then you have to stand a productive mindset. Christine: Yeah absolutely. Interviewer: So okay, well that’s, it's very cool. So writing is a, I think is a particularly interesting challenge whenyouhave kids.It'shard,Ifeel like atthe endof the day to or whetheryouknow whether youare runningdayor not.But it'shard to sort of clickinto a creative mode I guess. So I found with me with writing my book which is coming out next April. But I .. Christine: Exciting xxx18:06. Interviewer: Yeah, thank you.
  • 7. Christine: Keep me, keep me posted. Interviewer:Ifoundthat withwriting notebook,Ireally had to sort of go against my nature and outline things.Because I'mnot,I'm not a good outliner.I'mnota goodplannerwhen it comes to writing stuff. I would rather just like sit down and just open the brain door and let it go. But I found with that like I reallyhadto sort of prompt myself rather than give myself, yeah I guess like as ease into it, you know. So how, what was your methodology for creative, being creative honestly. Christine: Yeah I mean it's so funny, I feel like we have so many work style similarities it's really interesting.Butsofor while writingthe book its xxx18:48-18:49 the Artist's Way and I didn’t go through for programbut whatmy husbanddidand one otherthings thatI thoughtwas really interesting that he talked about with method is this sort of letting go the inner critic and just writing and I think that is so important for writers, I mean for anybody who wants to, who had an idea and is maybe scaring themselves off of the idea before they even give it a chance to grow. So with minimalist parenting actually I would sit down every morning and again ahead on my counters, recurring meeting, do not disturb,turnoff all social mediaandI wouldjustwrite foran hour.Andyou know Ocean writing it all on Google Docs youknow each chapter was separate doc and I just I warned her and I said you're going to see a lotof braindumping.Thisisjustkindof what I do and a brain dump like crazy and then I'll clean it up later. And it was just you know I have to say, I know most authors do not say this but writing that bookwas the mostjoyful process.Itwasso, feel yourself freeandsoopenI meanobviously there was a topic about which I was very passionate and you know it turned out that Ocean and I also have very intersecting kind of works style where she's very big picture thinker and I'm very kind of bottom-up detailsandsothe twothingsreallymergedwell when we wrote. And many people commented on the fact that actuallysoundslike one voice throughoutwhichIthink is, can be a challenge when you have a coauthored book. Interviewer: Absolutely and that’s really xxx20:17 actually. It's just sort of brought back couple of memories from him xxx20:22. So I understand where you're coming from and obviously the work productwas and I agree itdoesactuallyflow verywell.There is spot where there are pictures of either one of you in the book. Christine: Yeah. Interviewer:SohonestlyI don't think I would have recognized the, this sort of shift. So let’s talk about an obvious one which is sleep. Christine: Are you low on it? Interviewer: Well you know what so I am, I am a bio hacker and as part of that I'm always working on, I've never been a big sleeper ever and I have always been an early riser. I've been working in construction for thirteen years now twelve years and you know up at 4:15 every morning. So sleep is nevergoingtobe there for me and there are lots of little tips and tricks that I use to help myself sleep better and also I look at that I am also fortunately one of those people who could, I mean if I wasn't
  • 8. focusingIcouldfall asleepinthe middle of thisinterview withyou if Iwantedto I not speaking to you at all. Christine: You'll be present in your sleeping. Yeah. So I am like hit it xxx21:31 I am out and but then I am, you know baby wakes up and that's it. In fact my sister-in-law and brother-in-law are staying with us and they have a three-year-old and a anothersix month old and so inthe middle of the night it nearly takes me about good twenty seconds to realize which baby is crying in the house and if it's one then I have to get up for. Christine: Right. Interviewer: So what, what, how do you kind of deal with that not only deal with the sleep itself but maintain, you know productivity? Christine:Yeah.Well Iwill saythat I,this isone area where we differ in that. I love sleeping and I mean I.. Interviewer: Poor you. Christine:Yeahpoor me indeed.ImeanIwouldlove inan ideal world to get eight to ten hours of sleep at night and I would be so happy. But I think that you know if your taking about in terms of sort of survival for early parenting I think one of the best things that we check, I'm sure I talk about the book, but one of the bestthingsmy husbandIdid wasto swapoff and so youknow you will sleepbetterif you explicitlyknowyou're off dutyandwe do this to this day and we when started we know it’s a baby and we do itnow of Violet.Andeverynightone of us is assigned to get up if the baby gets up and when it's not mynightI am just,you knowI justlike sleepvery,verywell.AndIthinkthe otherthing was sleep is, it's a little bit tricky I know. You know you've mentioned the evening hours for working and to some degree I think if I were left my own devices I would just stay up until two or three in the morning and workon stuff because Ilove the peace of the house and how quietit is. On the other hand then I get up the nextmorningandI am a total zombie.SoIthinkit's importantto recognize what your body needs. I meanclearlyyouand I have individual differencesonwhatwe needandforproductivitysake Ithinkyou need to figure out, okay it's time you know to go to bed, unwind. If you're somebody who needs a specific matter sleep for sure. Interviewer:Right.The service swapoff isinterestingandIwantpeople tosort of take note of that, that it's not just that you're giving yourself a night off or vice-versa, it’s that you are really setting that expectation that when you go to sleep you're going to be able to sleep through the night. Christine: Yeah, yeah. Interviewer: So I think that's a very good tip. Okay. So can you tell me a couple of technological things that you found sort of indispensable in terms of being able to manage life and kids. Christine: You like, like little tech xxx24;04.
  • 9. Interviewer: Whether it’s a website or a device or something that you found just indispensable. Christine:YeahI meanI wouldsayright now a couple of things that I actually rely on one is wonder list for my ‘to do list’.It’safree,I usedtouseoutlookonthisothermachine and it’shorrible and everything was like locked onto my machine it was horrible. So now I was wonder list for keeping all my xxx24:29 whetheritswork,home youknowit syncs’ up automatically. So I can use it on the web or on my laptop or on my phone andthat's enormouslyI'mahuge listmaker.I justcan't holdit onmy brain.So it's really importantto getit all downandboth kindsof lists. I would say if you are, if you're a writer, a creator of contentand youare a photographeratany level Iwouldsayrightnow my phone,Ihave an update I just bought.So xxx24:56 I have the GalaxyS4 and the phone is the yeah, camera is phenomenal and so a lot of the blogging images that I take are just with my phone because I always have it with me. So that's super handy and also you know super handy for cataloging your kids and I think last year with our Christmascard all of the photosonthe Christmascardwere frommy phone. So yeah for parents a good camera and your photos really indispensable. And then Google Calendar Google calendar, with my husband you know we sync up our calendars not literally. We actually sit down old fashion and talk through the calendar. But we do these calendar check-ins just to kind of see, you know especially if things are getting too crazy where we can cut things out. It's really important I think to edit your counters and to do list as much as you can. Interviewer:Yeah definitely. We have a sharing calendar for, my wife and I have a shared calendar for kids’ stuff whichisfoundtobe reallyuseful.That's,those are those are some very, very good tech’s for sure. So one of the things that what, I'm sorry, the thing that I always ask people at the end of the podcastis whatare your topthree personal productivitytipsfor,whatare the things that just make you more effective in you know every day and everywhere. Christine:Okay,yeahI wouldsaya bigone is and everybodytalksaboutthisbutit'sreallyimportantitis saying no to things. Interviewer: Good one. Christine:Yeahand it'sreallyimportantandone otherthingsthat I as a talk you know I go and to talk to parentgroups in various things and I have discovered that I think one of the reasons that is so hard for us to say no is because we don't like to lie and have to make up a really good excuse and so taught people you don't have to make up an excuse. All you need to do is decline gracefully and just say no. And once I personally realized that with my own, you know work and personal xxx26:50, I just my, productivity just shot after I could just bounce back those emails, get them out of my inbox, they weren'thangingoverme.Soyouknowand thenyou,I alsolike totell people tothink everytime yousay somethingsaynoto somethingyoudon't want to do as a degree of freedom and an opportunity to say yesto somethingtotallyawesomeinthe future oryou know take care yourself and or do nothing at all. You know it's, its huge saying no is huge. I think the second one it’s, it's funny. I, we talk about outsourcinginthe bookas much as youcan and I recently readan entrepreneurxxx27:26 call about sort of 80-20 rule and the idea of getting outsourcing those ten dollar an hour tasks and so you know I'm a bigfan of that too isyou knowI should,Iremember actually one time last year when I was in this huge
  • 10. just colossal work meltdown. So many things coming down at me and Ocean said "you know Christian you need to focus on the things that only you can do and then outsource as much of the rest as possible".Andonce Ifinally,youknowandit'shard whenyouare a control freak, right. But once, once I starteddoingthat mylife like,itjustgotsomuch betterandthenall of a sudden I had all these creative ideasthatkeptpoppingbecause theywere all hinderedbythese things that, you know these ten dollar an hour tasks that I was kind of mired down in. And I think third is to just continually be in an editing mode with your whether it’s with your calendar or with your to do list or you know with stuff around you. You know the calendar one is a big one because as parents especially as working people then parents, you know we get bogged down with a lot of stuff and you know my husband and I try to do regular check-ins where we look at the calendar and if it just seems too full across a certain standard time, we just start, you know declining and letting go of stuff and say no that excuses. So those things haven't been really, really helpful for me on the productivity side. Interviewer:Sothose were all wonderful suggestions. It goes as saying that I'm a big fan of everything you just mentioned and outsourcing and automating. Incidentally my number one resources for parenting, technological resource is Amazon subscribe and save. Christine: Oh yeah. Interviewer: Today is Amazon subscribe and save day by the way. Christine: Do you get a big blow to diapers on your door? Interviewer: Oh yes and two sizes. We got nine boxes today. I got wipes. Christine: Oh my gosh. Interviewer: I got diapers and paper towels and all that stuff. So anyway those are great. So Christine where caneverybodyfindoutmore aboutyouand the bookisobviousonAmazon.Where can they find out more about you? Christine: They can find out more about me at I think ocean has xxx.29:40. But I should.Imightbe speakingaboutthatxxx29:40. You know my but youknowit's and it'smore than Boston.So you know it's got a national following which is really, really nice. But and beautifully redesigned thanks to outsourcing. So yeah you know it's, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you and you know I, if your readers have any questions at any point just, you know readersandlistenersjust sync up with me because obviously this is a topic that we're both passionate about and you know it's important. We all deserve to do less crap and like more stuff we feel happy about. Interviewer: Absolutely. Well thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking to you. Christine: Thanks.