Climate Change FOOL – you just told us humans made this problem and we can fix it. Well “The Scientists” can fix it and we will do what they say
WOAH – Who Said What?!? I told you no such thing! Take the wax outta your ears. What con artist told you humans caused climate change? Did Bernie Madoff, scum of the earth, come by here?!?
Yeah, like I said, S-C-I-E-N-C-E. Not Star Trek. Not believe and make it so. Not the bible. Follow the S-C-I-E-N-C-E.
Let’s go start at the beginning again.
What is the temperature of the “Climate?”
You got it – there is no “temperature of the Climate” or the Earth that any science or group or anything says is accepted, correct, less correct, or incorrect. There are about as many ways to figure that out as Bernie Madoff stole dollars.
Yep, lots of measurement about air and water and city streets, and glaciers – bajillions of them over the last 100 years
Fact check here – there is no scientific theory, consensus, definition or any of that that says how you do anything with them and put them together to give you any meaningful datum to measure anything against. Sorry, this is messy stuff
Besides, if there were some magic measurements you could take who says, after 4 billions some odd years of existence of this planet and everything it has been – just what is the “correct” temperature this should be? Huh?
Absolute fact – “if” humans mucked with the path that the climate dynamic was on, by things we have done, then a correct temperature would be one that the earth would have taken if we had not screwed with it.
Nobody can disagree with that. If humans made it better or worse, we made it different. If you say no humans is correct then you can define that as where the earth climate temperature should be – if humans were not around
Volcanos, exploding stars, asteroids, sun changes, anything else leads to correct temperature – completely fair way to determine correct.
Doesn’t mean anything at all , but a definition anyways.
Did Humans Cause Climate Change, if you define climate change as rising temperatures during the late 20 th century?
That’s right I just blew off all the other temperatures we think we know from the past before 1900. All the C0 2 measurements from that past, all that smoke and confusion that goes with them.
The REAL QUESTION that everybody is asking is: did humankind muck up the climate with C0 2 ?
We know that the C0 2 increase by humans only matters from the early 20 th century till now.
Real science says ask the right questions and get rid of all the confusion and conjecture and answer the question you need to answer
I do understand what you are saying about all the old temperatures of the Earth’s air and water for the last 1000 years
You are trying to say that the temperatures you calculate from things like ice and tree rings are cooler than today. Further, humans have been making lots of C0 2 for the last 60 years, and therefore they are causing the higher temperatures. I get it
I am sorry, nobody every taught you to argue proofs. All you have done is state a question based on a conjecture and two pieces of unrelated evidence. In effect – humans were there, so humans are guilty.
Sherlock Holmes and Dr. House would not even talk to you and bother to explain that you don’t have a clue how to frame evidence of a crime!
1000 years already?!? That is tiny, insignificant, meaningless, and unimportant in the history of the planet – come back then when you have a billion years or something that matters, OK.
Got that part too, already agreed that C0 2 has properties that it absorbs and emits photons.
Yep, the fact that there is more C0 2 now – yes, sure that too.
So, that is just part of your question – we already said that you are correct in asking it and that it deserves an answer. It is important. Got that to about melting ice and all.
Let’s go to that mythical place for how we answer you question
All evidence in Sherlock’s world and the world of crime and punishment is circumstantial. Movies and TV aside that is the way it is. You prove motive and opportunity and collect tons of evidence to show that, and then Bernie goes to jail. Life of a lawyer in ALL cases.
Science is NOT 221b Baker Street or a court of law. THANK GOD!
Science takes proof and repeatable experiments, validated mathematical constructs, and accumulated evidence that things happen the same way every time – and proof of that.
Hahahahaha – you thought it was going to be a long and tedious definition didn’t you!
All you do is show the question, the data you used, the analysis you performed, the experiments you did, and let other people try to duplicate it and expand it with the same everything.
Do please call me when the Human Climate Change promoters do this. They HAVE NOT done this yet to date.
Concept: Illustrate the course of action taken when applying the scientific method.
Purpose: Provide a visual image of the steps or processes taken during a scientific investigation.
Strategy
Review the process beginning with Define/Identify the Problem.
Emphasize that scientists do not take actions in a linear sense but rather move ahead in an investigation once they have collected evidence that satisfies their questions
Define key terms such as hypothesis and observations.
Provide examples of how to create and write a hypothesis in the correct form.
Provide examples of tools (ex., graphs, spreadsheets, etc.) that can be used to organize and analyze data.
Emphasize the importance of maintaining a science journal and show examples of good science journal entries.
Discuss the importance of changing one variable at a time when conducting experiments.
Emphasize the importance of multiple trials before drawing conclusions.
Demonstrate how to make general and specific conclusions about an experiment.
Emphasize the importance of communicating the results and discuss possible audiences.
Here’s how you do it and what you need to show to prove that humans have caused climate warming in the last 60 years:
Construct a definition in precise terms of what the climate temperature of the earth is and publish it and get consensus from the scientific community.
List all the variables driving the climate temperature. Sun, water vapor, C0 2 , dust, albedo, etc., etc., etc.
Analyze and publish results for the contribution of each variable to the climate temperature
Use only measured data, test data, historical data, etc. for each variable
Construct an analysis showing how all the variables drive the climate temperature as a system and analyze the contribution of each to the climate temperature
Analyze all the measurements for each variable and correct the measurements for errors. Publish all this too.
Establish a set of physical sensors – temperature, wind, etc that represent you earth climate temperature definition. Start collecting data and fill in data from the past 60 years as much as you can for all of them with all the corrections for errors you defined and checked
Now you run the model and check it and adjust it all over again so that it matches both the current and the past data
You are ready to say something now – you can say what you believe the relative weight of each variable you used is worth to the temperature predictions
You can start to say if C0 2 has a big or a small effect on temperatures from your model – you theory now has more weight
Now you can say which variables, like C0 2 and sunshine matter and what you think will happen in the future. You keep correlating your model and keep getting more and better sensor measurements. Keep doing this for about 10 years.
You now have empirical proof for your question if humans and C0 2 are a problem for the climate or not.
Now you can tell people what C0 2 means and what other things mean and make informed decisions with data and predictions that will be generally accepted. Everybody starts to feel comfortable about making policy.
Yes, just proposed an empirical proof, not a hard scientific proof.
I did not measure an effect, compare it to a closed ended scientific theory, then correlate the output back through the derivation of the theory.
I cheated and made a computer model of the system and populated it with real measured data and separated variables to weigh contributions by each then compared that back to the theory.
That is a completely fair thing to do when you can’t test the whole system in real life – engineers have built the modern world exactly that way.
In physics theory, relativity for example, you have a theory and a mathematical construct, take data in an experiment, eliminate all other variables, take more data, compare to theory.
Now show everybody else what you did, let them mess with theory, math, experiment, do their own experiments, have them show everybody. Have everybody keep doing this until most agree that the theory and the experiments and the data are producing the same results.
With something as simple as gravity you can do experiments to test theories and eliminate variables.
If you want hard proof ie scientific proof like Gravity Probe B for carbon in the air, you have to turn the carbon on or off quickly. Then measure weather changes for a handful of decades after each switch on or off, then correlate the results with your theory.
Keep all the other variables constant during all this time – first define and quantify all those other variables – which has NOT been done yet either.
Yes, I know real science is messy and hard proofs are rare as hens teeth.
Yes, you use computer models to replace closed mathematical constructs all the time.
Yes, you never get clean data or eliminate or quantify ALL the other variables exactly, almost all of the time.
Yes to all.
Absolute NO to not using good science and experimental practice to quantify and separate variables, measure them, publish them, publish models, make predictions, test predictions, publish tests, and all that.
Yes, the Human Caused Climate Change proponents say “No!” to the “No” list above and do not do all that checking, testing, publishing, modeling, and re-checking.
We are back around again to doing the best science we can do with predictive computer models that are correlated with real measured data and well designed experiments -- then testing against the real earth climate.
The Human Climate Change proponents do not want you to look behind the curtain and ask for Hard Science and Hard Computer Model Correlation and Verification.
They want you to keep letting them guess and wave arms and make simpleton graphs of CO 2 in the air and temperature guesses for the air and tree rings -- and not do all the hard work to test all that for real.
Sherlock Holmes, Dr. House, and Albert Einstein are just plain disgusted by this manipulation of science and logic the “climaters” are perpetrating on everybody -- they are snake oil sellers – they are Wall Street Bankers selling credit default swaps
The proof of human driven C0 2 enables climate change with a validated analysis using measured data that is open and peer reviewed DOES NOT exist in any form today
There is circumstantial evidence, conjecture, bad logic, arm waving, belief without facts for a crime that nobody can even agree has been committed
Bad science is bad science is bad science no matter how you slice it
Yes, twisting science to be political and like a law court is crap science and takes away from all the hard work and dedication of most scientists and the work that has called them to it.
No, I really do not believe that C0 2 has any significant impact on climate change, defined as warmer March and melting ice.
Been in the science/engineering/technology world for too long to not trust my gut on this
Spent to many years doing heat transfer research and engineering design with it to trust Al Gore
Last: there are too many people on the earth and any change to climate that normal populations would adjust to are screwed up. To many people living in so many marginal places at such low levels of subsistence get in trouble when something happens.
Lastest -- So What! The Earth climate will always change no matter what.
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