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Just in case you think bitcoin has it hard with aml laws   general - bitcoin
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Just in case you think bitcoin has it hard with aml laws general - bitcoin

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    Just in case you think bitcoin has it hard with aml laws   general - bitcoin Just in case you think bitcoin has it hard with aml laws general - bitcoin Document Transcript

    • Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation file:///G|/Bit Coin/foundation/Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation.htm[3/18/2014 3:51:29 PM] Bitcoin Foundation → Foundation Discussion → General 2Follow this topic Reply to this topic Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws Started by Mike Hearn, Jun 25 2013 12:30 PM 11 replies to this topic  View New ContentBitcoin Foundation Forums Members #1 Member Lifetime 204 posts Mike Hearn Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:30 PM Whilst Bitcoiners might struggle with archaic AML rules and annoying banks, at least we're not in under any threat of starving to death because of them! http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-23030943 Barclays faces pressure from Somali cash transfer firms Many Somalis rely on money sent from their relatives abroad The UK government is being urged to stop Barclays closing the last account in Somalia which allows its citizens overseas to send money back home. A group of aid practitioners said the service was a "lifeline" for an estimated 40% of the Somali population which rely on the transfers. There are an estimated 1.5m Somalis living overseas. Barclays told Dahabshiil the move was "a commercial decision due to the risks of the sector in which you operate". "The decision to exit our business relationship with you is not a negative reflection of your anti-money laundering standards, nor a belief that your business has been unwittingly been a conduit for financial crime," Barclays wrote in a letter sent to Dahabshiil. .... (snip) .... The group estimates that almost three quarters of Somalis who receive funds from overseas use it to pay for basic food, education and medical expenses. It says one third of those who receive funds would not be able to afford basic food if the transfers are Search
    • Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation file:///G|/Bit Coin/foundation/Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation.htm[3/18/2014 3:51:29 PM] Quote Gary Rowe, Patrick Murck and Richard Wagner like this Like This stopped. ..... (snip) ..... The Somali Money Services Association (SOMSA), an umbrella group of transfer services, said the closures would "have dire consequences in Somalia, where no alternatives to the money service businesses exist". Of SOMSA's 17 members, 12 have already had their accounts closed, with the remaining five facing "imminent" shutdown. mhearn@bitcoinfoundation.org Report #2 Quote Like This Member, education committee Lifetime 472 posts Location Rochester, MN Brian Goss Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:16 PM Good grief. I agree money laundering is bad, but, I'd tolerate a higher rate of laundering to keep kids from dying. Do they really think it right to kill by beurocracy in the name of catching tax cheats and launderers? That's just nuts. Got GLIPH? Send me an encrypted instant message: Keep track of your addresses with myBitcoins for iOS! or check out babyPlayer, a video player for little hands! My very own Casascius Bearer Bar: 1GCDzqmX2Cf513E8NeThNHxiYEivU1Chhe Report #3 Quote Lorenzo Petrone and Georg Engelmann like this Like This Member Lifetime 52 posts Location Madison, Wisconsin Richard Wagner Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:45 PM That is crazy. I support most laws because they have a moral backing. Stealing, murder; those things are illegal for a good reason. But it is immoral to watch someone die because you think they might launder money. I know they are worried about some of the money helping "the Lads" . However, in the long run allowing Al Shabaab to exploit the narrative of "the west starving out Africans" will be handing them more power. Report #4 Like This Member, Regulatory Affairs Committee Todd Erickson Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:19 PM Africa is really getting hit hard. If you have not heard, M-Pesa (mobile money) is being taxed to death and is really hampering their economies and creating more hardship there. It would be a perfect place for bitcoin, if it were mainstream ready, to swoop in and help out.
    • Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation file:///G|/Bit Coin/foundation/Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation.htm[3/18/2014 3:51:29 PM] Quote Lifetime 129 posts Location North Carolina Todd Erickson Report #5 Quote Like This Member Moderators 108 posts Location North Carolina, United States Brad Wheeler Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:27 PM The article is sparse on details. A related article on the site from 2011 cited accusations of fund-raising for al-Shabab as a potential reason that US-based Sunrise Community Bank closed its Somalia-based operations down. It's sad to see that an impoverished nation experiencing the realities of an extended civil war (which has resulted in an insurgency) is further stunted by a lack of options for monetary support. Funding terrorists is not anything I support, but it's bad when all of the private institutions have pulled out. It's a sign that the ecosystem has failed when the UK Government asks the banks to delay closing accounts. Report #6 Quote Lorenzo Petrone likes this Like This Member Members 57 posts Location United Kingdom Jonathan Routledge Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:52 AM Somalia has always been bad Somali Pirates used to rob international shipping. http://www.express.c...-5m-Somali-jail Uk to fund 1.5million pounds Somali jail. The move is part of a £14million British project to improve security in the war- torn west African country that will also include establishing mobile criminal courts. More than 400 Somali criminals are in custody in British jails because there is nowhere to keep them detained in their homeland. http://www.telegraph...killing-15.html With stuff like that going on you can see why the banks are pulling out. I can see all the humanitarian reasons why they shouldn't and its part of the reason why the british government has asked the bank not to close. Its very hard to keep up international relations in a place that has Al-Qaeda presence.   Quote The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead —his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled though it be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness. Report #7 Member Nilam Doctor Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:10 AM After reading the above, I think my first priority when I go to Mauritius next week is to talk to some government officials
    • Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation file:///G|/Bit Coin/foundation/Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation.htm[3/18/2014 3:51:29 PM] Quote Lorenzo Petrone, Gary Rowe, Nikola Pekas and 4 others like this Like This Lifetime 31 posts Location India in Africa. I have good contacts in South Africa and Madagascar. Through the links I should be able to get more ground level information. Bitcoin is a solution for international money transfers, but at the same time we should make it clear that the transaction is bound to draw attention from government. Supporting a family would not draw more than $500 / month in Africa by a family member working outside the country. This can and should never be treated as money laundering. Report #8 Quote Nilam Doctor likes this Like This Member, Law and Policy Committee Lifetime 203 posts Location UK Joel Dalais Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:25 AM Mauritius could very well do with more Bitcoin adoption itself .. and ye, the various African countries could escape the prison of the USD, it's a hell of a mission though from here to there .. I pm'd you, if you do anything in Mauritius (though I'm British born and bred, I still consider Mauritius my home) I would be very very interested in keeping tabs, ty. https://ibwt.co.uk/ "In Bitcoin We Trust." A UK Virtual Currency Exchange. "The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence." ~ Nikola Tesla Report #9 Quote Lorenzo Petrone and Nikola Pekas like this Like This Member Lifetime 204 posts Mike Hearn Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:18 AM Unfortunately the British government is not asking Barclays to change. SOMSA is petitioning the government to pressure Barclays. But the UK is pretty much all-in with the whole "gotta stop the terrorists laundering money" line so I suspect that won't work and Somalia will get cut off. al-Shabab is a terrorist group only insomuch as the Taliban or Syrian rebels are. These designations boil down to power games that emanate from Washington as far as I'm concerned. mhearn@bitcoinfoundation.org Report #10 Member Moderators 108 posts Brad Wheeler Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:38 PM Mike Hearn, on 27 June 2013 - 10:18 AM, said: Unfortunately the British government is not asking Barclays to change. SOMSA is petitioning the government to pressure Barclays. But the UK is pretty much all-in with the whole "gotta stop the terrorists laundering money" line so I suspect that won't work and Somalia will get cut off. al-Shabab is a terrorist group only insomuch as the Taliban or Syrian rebels are. These designations boil down to power games that
    • Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation file:///G|/Bit Coin/foundation/Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation.htm[3/18/2014 3:51:29 PM] Quote Lorenzo Petrone likes this Like This Location North Carolina, United States emanate from Washington as far as I'm concerned. You're right - it's only an appeal to the UK government for intervention. It's unclear what position the government will take, though the final decision seems to rest with Barclays bank. I've found the word to describe this situation: it's is an ethical issue - while a bank's decision to drop a customer might be well within a bank's interest, should this view be the same when an entire country is isolated from money transmission services? I'm unfamiliar with this industry, but I'd like to know if there are ethical standards for the practice of banking and -- if so -- how they are being interpreted in this particular instance. While searching on this topic, I found this tidbit written up in Biz Tech Africa: http://www.biztechaf...-lifeline/6314/ "The decision has caused an outcry in the sector, with industry bodies, such as the UK Money Transmitters Association (UKMTA), a trade body for Britain's payments sector, mounting an industry campaign to highlight the damaging effects Barclays' decision will have on the sector. Evidence gathered by UKMTA suggests that as many as 75% of UK money transmitters have experienced problems obtaining or retaining a bank account. UKMTA further believes that as many as 25% of MSBs that have registered with HMRC have not been able to trade because of problems in obtaining banking facilities." It seems that banks and money transmitters don't have the strongest of relationships in general if these figures are accurate. I wonder how closely related these events are/or will be to Bitcoin exchanges and businesses trying to operate in our respective countries. Another article describes the degree to which the UKMTA is trying to engage the UK government. They've hired lobbyists. http://www.prweek.co...r-tackle-banks/ "Four Public Affairs will help member companies speak with one voice and lobby a selection of their local MPs, according to agency director Jim Dickson. Engagement with MPs has helped the UKMTA secure a meeting this Thursday with the Economic Secretary to the Treasury Sajid Javid. Banks' disengagement from the sector comes against a background of concerns about the risks of involvement with money transfers." Report #11 Member Moderators 108 posts Location North Carolina, United States Brad Wheeler Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:31 PM I heard an update on the Barclays/Dahabshiil situation on BBC radio this morning into work and managed to find this article with some details. It looks like Barclays will be compelled to continue working with Somali money transmitters until more formal proceedings conclude. Somali remittances granted reprieve http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-24553148 Some excerpts: Somali money transfer service Dhabshiil has won an injunction preventing Barclays from cutting its banking services.
    • Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation file:///G|/Bit Coin/foundation/Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation.htm[3/18/2014 3:51:29 PM] Back to General · Next Unread Topic →    Privacy Policy Bitcoin Foundation → Foundation Discussion → General Reply to this topic Quote Lorenzo Petrone and Peter Todd like this Like This "The Court handed down its judgment, granting an interim injunction which has the effect of preserving Dahabshiil's banking arrangements with Barclays until the conclusion of a full trial," a Dahabshiil statement read. It must now maintain services to Dahabshiil until a new hearing - expected some time next year. The charity Oxfam welcomed the injunction, but warned that it was only temporary. Report #12 Quote Like This Member Members 72 posts Location Canada; U.S. Nikola Pekas Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:57 PM These people would starve because they need money to represent value and to transact, but all they can come up with is the USD or the GBP.  While Mike was rightfully pointing out that Bitcoin businesses are not the only victim of misused AML rules, I see a much bigger message here. Report Mark Community Read Help Community Forum Software by IP.Board Post More Reply Options