The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 091 Ryan Carson
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The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 091 Ryan Carson



The Entrepreneurs Radio Show

The Entrepreneurs Radio Show

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The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 091 Ryan Carson The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 091 Ryan Carson Document Transcript

  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 1 of 26 Episode #91: Ryan Carson In this episode, Travis interviews Ryan Carson who is the founder and CEO of Treehouse. Ryan is a successful entrepreneur that built his businesses from the ground up and learned valuable lessons along the way. Lessons that entrepreneurs can surely learn from and apply in their businesses. Travis asks Ryan on a variety of interesting topics, and they both shared valuable insights on how establish a business and to make it profitable without constant guidance or attention. The establishment of systems in your business as well as establishing a recurrent revenue will surely allow it to grow and gives its business owners the chance to work fewer hours and concentrate on the things that really does matter. Entrepreneurs will surely find these lessons valuable, and something in which they can apply to their own businesses. Ryan Carson – Build your business with reoccurring revenue TRAVIS: Hey, this is Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome to episode 91 of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show, a production of Rock Star Entrepreneur Network. Today, I'm going to introduce you to Ryan Carson. Now, Ryan is a rock star for several reasons and I'm super excited to connect you with him. Although, one core reason is he's done an incredible job of building a business that generates well over a million dollars a month in reoccurring income. Now, I don't want to diminish the interview here because there's several reasons that I'm excited in connecting you. But I want to highlight this because I want you to think about it. And when I say reoccurring income it means that you sell it once and they keep paying you each and every month. Now, of course, I'm giving you this simplified version of the story now. Plus, I don't want you to focus on the dollar amount too much either, even though it's very impressive. The exciting part is reoccurring revenue, something maybe you should consider implementing into your business. This can really apply to any type of business that you own. Also, be sure and stay with us until the very end if you can because I want to share some inspiration with you. Plus, as you always know I got something that I want to talk to you about and in this case it's a question. And I've talked about it a couple of times and I think, at the risk of being redundant, it's worth bringing up again. The question is this. Do you have a company you compete with and they always seen to be doing incredibly well, even though their prices are higher. And maybe even what they offer isn't as good as what your company offers. Does that baffle you? Yet, they're still super busy. Do you have 1 or 2 businesses that do exactly what you do, and that's the case. Maybe they provide a great product or service yet their prices are a whole lot higher than yours. And you can't figure out how they're able to get that level for
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 2 of 26 what they do, right? If you want to know how businesses do this, this is something we figured out that completely changed my life. Hang out until the very end of the show and we'll talk more about it. Also, I want to remind you about a section that we have on the Rock Star Entrepreneur Network website. On the right side I've placed a little widget where you can click in a microphone and you can basically ask me anything about your business, marketing, managing, scaling, pricing. Anything that you feel like is holding you back from going to the next level of success. All you got to do is click on the button, you got 3 minutes to give me the background of who you are, what your business is. And in the near future I'm going to start releasing short episodes where I answer your questions on the show. I'll keep your last name private. Also, if you've got any suggestions for the show, you can just leave them there. If you're not the type to leave messages, go ahead and go to the website, opt-in, send me an email. Because you'll get my email immediately. Actually, it's my team's email, and me and my team read each and every message that comes through. We're always looking for ways to improve your experience with the show here, and help you take your business to the next level. Before we get started I want to remind you that there's two ways you can take these interviews with you on the go. It's iTunes and Stitcher. Stitcher is an excellent option for Android users. Obviously, I'm an iPhone user, I always have a hard time remembering that. And you can go to and I've placed links there for both the shows, iTunes and Stitcher that will take you directly to the apps where you can download them. Now, that we've got all these stuff out of the way, what do you say we go ahead and get down to business, are you okay with that? Alright. So without further ado, welcome to the show Ryan. RYAN: Thanks, it's an honor to be here, I'm excited. TRAVIS: Man, I'm super excited to spend an hour with you. Hey, before we get started, do you mind giving us the back story of how you got to where you're at today and how you found success? RYAN: Yeah, sure. So, I'm 36 now and a father of two. I'm married and I live in Portland, Oregon. And I started out, went to college, got a computer science degree, and I wasn't kind of an entrepreneur by birth. I didn't have a lemonade stand, I didn't have any businesses. For some reason it didn't occur to me. TRAVIS: It didn't dawn on you. RYAN: No, I should be a CEO someday. I enjoy writing code and I'm going to see if that works. I graduated, didn't have any serious girlfriend at that time or any ties, so I thought, "Hey, I'm just going to move to another country." Because I know there's a lot of stuff that I don't know, that I don't know.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 3 of 26 TRAVIS: I like that. RYAN: And so, I thought, "Let's move to England." Stay for a year, see what happens, and this was in 2000, right before the .com bubble burst. TRAVIS: Good timing. RYAN: Yeah. So I got a job over in England as a web developer, and 6 months later got fired, because the company went out of business. So, that was pretty exciting being kind of alone in a foreign country with no job, and no family. And I've never grown more than I did during that period of-- all my safety net was taken away. Family, friends, culture, everything was different. So, I really grew a lot. But it was a very lonely, hard time in my life. But got another job as a web developer and stayed over there. TRAVIS: How long were you there? RYAN: Well, I was in the United Kingdom for a total of 12 years. TRAVIS: Okay. RYAN: So, from basically when I was about 22 to about 34. TRAVIS: Okay. RYAN: And at the time still an employee and it wasn't around my own company. But I got another job as a web developer. And then I met my beautiful wife, we decided to get married. And at that point I just decided, you know what? My boss annoys me. I could do what he does. What does he do that's so special? They would drive crazy cars, they would show up in Ford GT's, and I stopped, this is weird. So, I thought, "I'll do his job." And I quit, and I started my first company. And I built a simple piece of software for the web that helped people send large files. This was 2004, and you still couldn't email files over 2 Megs, which is hard to imagine now. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And built it. I got my first customer while I was still at that job. So I had a little bit of a safety net. I think I had about $5,000 in the bank. And I quit. And what I-- TRAVIS: After your first sell?
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 4 of 26 RYAN: Yeah. I quit my job and I thought, "Okay, I've got enough money in the bank to protect me a little bit." And we got married right that point and started this new entrepreneurial life. And I just do nothing about anything. So, I priced the product too high. It was about 500 bucks a month for a company to use it. And I quickly learned, this isn't a freemium model or a try and buy model, this is a sales model. I've got to actually get out and do the in-person sales. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And I suck at that. I just hate rejection, I'm not very pushy. All these things that you generally need for sales. And so, I slowly went out of business over a period of a year. I just couldn't make the sales, and that was a big defining moment of my life when I realized the business was going to fail. And it sounds like the experience where you have, when we were talking about it before the show, where all your graph show income going up into the right. You're going to be a millionaire someday and then you realize, this isn't going to happen. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And the worst part was I told my wife this is going to work and we're going to do really well. And having to go to her and say, "You know what, this isn't going to work," was hard. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And thankfully we didn't have any kids at that point, and she had a full-time job, so the risk was- - the pain was mostly to my ego. And so, at that point I thought, "I'm not going to go be an employee. I don't think I can do that again." So we tried a new business and we actually had the idea to do a workshop where we had a speaker come and talk, and we sell tickets. Again, related to the web design and web development space because that's what I knew. And found our first speaker and thankfully the first workshop sold out. And what's interesting is the way that I sold the tickets to the very first event was very much kind of word of mouth. This is before Twitter even existed, before Facebook even existed. So, you really had to hope that you could email some friends, and they would tell some friends. And you relied on the website converting. So, we sold out our first workshop and that was like, "Whoa, wait a minute, this might be a business." And we did another one, and it worked. And did another one, did another, and also we had events and conference business going. And that steadily grew, to the point where I sat down with my wife and said, "Hey, do you want to join the business?" And it was a hard sell because she was a senior editor at a big publishing company and she's very good at what she did. But I said, "Listen, we could travel the world together, we can control our life, we can control our schedule. Let's do this." I remember the moment. We were sitting in a hotel room looking at an Excel doc at the cash flow. And we thought, I think we can scrape by. And so she joined the business and it
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 5 of 26 was just her and I in our top bedroom working from home. And we did that for about a year together and had a lot of fun. We travelled to Chicago, and San Francisco, and London, and Miami. It was amazing. TRAVIS: All on the company time, right? RYAN: Yeah, exactly. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: It's amazing. And had a ton of fun, met a lot of people, and built a really good network. I was meeting really amazing people who were speaking. I was building up loyalty and trust with all of our attendees, landing a couple of sponsorship deals. And then it came to the point where we thought, "Let's do a large conference. Let's get a big name speaker, try to sell 800 tickets, and let's see if we can do this." And we'd create our first event, and it sold out. And we just kind of kept cranking, and this was a lot of fun, hired our first employee. And that was 2006 that we hired our first employee. And that's when we decided to work a 4-day week. So, what happened is my wife and I were working 7 days a week, killing ourselves. And we were sitting on the couch one night, both with our laptops and she said, "What are we doing? I thought when you run your own company you're supposed to have more control, and less stress, and more time." And we had none of the above. And I was like, "You know, you're right. This is insane." I believe that I should be able to create my own reality and this is not what I want. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And she's like, "What if we only work 4 days a week?" And I just freaked out, I thought that's impossible. We don't have enough time now. And she says, "The work's never going to stop and it's never going to decrease so working more isn't going to help. Why don't we just draw a line?" And I thought, "Yeah, let's do it." And so, we did that, just her and I for I think it was probably a couple of months. And it was amazing. And we just put an answering message on the machine that said, "Hey, the office is closed on Fridays, and we'll get back to you first thing on Monday. Thank you very much." And just kind of set that expectation with our clients. No one really blinked an eye. I don't think I ever heard a complaint about that. TRAVIS: You know what's interesting about that is you gave yourself permission. RYAN: Yeah, which was hard.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 6 of 26 TRAVIS: Right. And as much as that sounds like a "duh" statement that's really how it works, isn't it? You got to give yourself-- most of the things we agonize over, even your ego when you lost things, because I did the same thing, is I hadn't given myself permission to fail. And so, I literally beat myself to pieces. And so, it's all about giving yourself permission. I don't mean to interrupt your flow, but I think that's important to illustrate there. RYAN: Yeah, you're exactly right. And, we thought, "Well, this seems to be working, let's hire our first employee." And that's when the moment we have decided do we officially work a 4-day week or not. Because once you tell an employee that you can't really go back. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And so, we did. And ever since 2006 we've been working a 4-day week, and my current company Treehouse grew up to about 70 employees, doing over $8 million in revenue, and we still work a 4-day week. TRAVIS: Wow. RYAN: Yeah, it scales. And it's been amazing for recruiting. We always win. If a person is looking at working with Treehouse or another company, the 4-day week, we always beat the other company. And it's been a powerful recruitment tool. TRAVIS: So, there's tons for us to talk about. Let's go back over a couple of things if you don't mind, okay? RYAN: Sure. TRAVIS: Alright. So, number 1, what I hear is with your business is, was incremental success. And I think there's this misconception that things happen overnight. Success very rarely happens overnight. There's incremental success. So you sold your first workshop and then you sold another one, then another one, then another, and then they got bigger. You can hit the fast-forward button and you can do it fast. It's kind of like stairs, but you still have to take the steps. Sometimes you can jump 2 or 3 steps at a time when you really got momentum going, sometimes 4 steps. But you still got to be walking the miles, putting the work in, putting the effort, evolving and growing. And what I hear is you guys were evolving, and growing, and refining, taking those steps and then kind of the 80-20 Principle, throwing what wasn't working away and doing more of what was working. You feel like that's an accurate--
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 7 of 26 RYAN: Yup, 100%. And one of the keys to my success looking back was running an event, a conference in the vertical that I was selling to. Because I didn't know this at the time, but basically, all these big conferences and events, what they were doing for me was setting me up us a trusted source in the web design and web development industry. So, we got to the point where I was on stage interviewing really famous people like Mark Zuckerberg from Facebook, or Evan Williams, the founder of Twitter. And what happened in the audience's eyes, they see me on stage with Mark Zuckerberg. And then there's some sort of association that happens. "If Ryan's talking to Mark, and he must know what he's talking about, and he must be connected. It must a big deal to speak at this conference. So, I should meet Ryan." TRAVIS: Yeah, I love the fact that you're pointing that out because it's expert positioning, right? RYAN: Yeah. I was too naive to know that's what was happening, but looking back it is what laid the groundwork for the success of Treehouse. So I spent 7 years building this network that I was too naive to know I was building. But then when I needed it, I could call upon this network, and it was absolutely powerful. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: So, when we decided to raise our first money for Treehouse, I showed the product to a guy who's well-known in the space named Kevin Rose, and he said, "This is amazing. I want to put $50,000 into this and I'm going to put together an amazing list of investors for you." And so, he then access to the network and I got folks like Reed Hoffman, the founder of LinkedIn, to invest in Treehouse. And that would have never happened unless I would've been fortunate to take years and years to build credibility and a good network in the field I was in. So you're right, it's absolutely not an overnight thing. TRAVIS: Plus, also, the way that you build those powerful connections, and I know you know this. But I want to illustrate it to everybody that's listening, is you've got to be accountable, you've got to be that reliable person because what happens is you demonstrated trust and reliability long enough with these guys, to where they're comfortable reaching out to another influencer and saying, "This guy Ryan's solid. He's got a really cool thing going on here, I think you ought to check it out and maybe invest in him." And that comes from being reliable, being accountable, being responsive, doing all of those things that build trust and maintain your reputation. And you had to do those things over those 7 years, not just make those connections but do those other underpinnings. Is that a fair statement? RYAN: Yup, that's totally true.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 8 of 26 TRAVIS: You can't be flaky and not follow-up, and not respond, and still have that type of reputation, right? RYAN: Yeah, exactly. A lot of people wonder, "How did you get so many followers on Twitter? And why are so many people following you on Facebook?" And the only reason why is because I put myself in this position of being an expert because I was on stage emceeing these events. I didn't know that was going to work but man, that's paid big dividends. TRAVIS: Good stuff. So, I had to ask you, I have yet to master the 4-day work week, okay? RYAN: Right. TRAVIS: So, I'm your student. I work way too many hours currently. Now, I know as an entrepreneur when I want something done I schedule it. And I have a suspicion that that's what you have to do with a 4-day work week, is just schedule it and be done with, am I correct? RYAN: Yeah. It's official for us, that's the only it happens, the whole company shuts down. I am very purposeful with my schedule like you said. So what I do that works for me is I block out my entire day with an appointment called focus. From 9 am to 6 pm, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I leave Thursday open. And then whenever someone requests an appointment with me, what I'll do is I'll send them a link. There's this great service, it's free, and I'm not associated with it at all but I love it. It's called So, if you want to book an appointment with me, I just go, "Great, here's the link, grab a spot that works for you." But people can only grab spots on Thursdays. And what that does is it limits the damage to my doing time, that means I've got Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday to deal with the stuff that really matters. And that's been working really well for me. I don't know if you have kids or not. TRAVIS: Yeah. A son and a daughter. RYAN: Yeah, so I've got 2 kids, and I think the discipline will start to get easier because I had that epiphany that, well, the kids are definitely going to grow up and they're in that kind of acute phase right now, they're 3 and 5. And I can tell that's going to just be gone. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: So I'm sort of trying to remind myself every day, this going to be over. And then I've got 40 years to be by myself.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 9 of 26 TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: With my wife doing fun stuff. So, I'm just going to focus as hard as I can at not working on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and that seems to be working. I still check email a little bit. TRAVIS: Yeah. I thoroughly enjoy what I do so it's common for me to have my laptop in my lap, watching TV, doing this. How do you steer around that? RYAN: It's hard. I'm just like you, I absolutely love working. It's fun. TRAVIS: I'm exhilarated by it. RYAN: Yeah. And for a one time actually my wife and I would have fights because she would say, "You don't have a hobby, you just work." And I was like, "Why? Work is my hobby, I love it. I don't want to do anything else. Why is that bad?" TRAVIS: So what do you do with that? RYAN: Well, and for a long time I didn't have a hobby. And we would fight about it basically. And something switched and I don't know what caused it but I decided to get fit. I was kind of your typical, a little bit overweight. A little bit out of shape type of guy, sat down all day. And I just decided, you know what, the one thing in my life I can't seem to control is my fitness, my weight, my strength, what is the deal? At the time I was 34. For 34 years I let this demon stay on my back, and I don't know what changed but I thought, "I'm done with this." And I had a nice watch at the point and I sold it. And I took all the cash and I put it in an envelope, and I said, "I'm going to change my body with this money." And I went to the gym and got a trainer. And every time I finished I pay the trainer in cash. And I did that for 3 months, and I think the way I got through it is I said, this is just 3 months. It was like hell, it was really hard. But every time I thought, "I'm going to pay this guy cash at the end, I might as well work hard while I'm here." And then at the end of the 3 months I saw these crazy results. I went from 24% body fat to 12, I gained a ton of muscle, and I basically had a body that I actually liked looking at. And I was like, "Whoa, this is insane." TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And at that point fitness became my hobby, something I could do that wasn't work. So now I work out 3 times a week for about an hour, and I eat right, and that seems to be something to do to distract me from work, and I actually enjoy it a lot.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 10 of 26 TRAVIS: Yeah, I've got to do a better job at finding balance because I'm thoroughly invigorated with business. I love helping people. But I probably work 15 hours a day. But with little breaks, I take breaks whenever I want to. I do what I want to, so it's really not like somewhere on the clock, right? But I'm constantly working, I'm constantly writing. And I don't know that that's a healthy thing to keep doing. And so, I really need to find a better balance there. I was just recently had a mastermind and we were having some casual conversation. And one of the guys asked, "So what's your hobby?" And I couldn't tell him anything. My business, I love doing what I do. Also, since that, that was not a good answer too. RYAN: Right. I was in the same camp for a long time. I don't think it's an easy deal. We're lucky to be doing something that we actually want to do all the time. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: So, it's kind of a mixed blessing I guess. TRAVIS: It is, it's a good problem, right? RYAN: Totally. TRAVIS: A lot of people have the reverse problem. They're working all the time but they don't enjoy it. For me, really, I've wanted to pursue singing in a band on a more serious level. I don't need to make it a financial thing but I feel more complete when I'm doing stuff like that. And really, if I pursued the lifestyle that you're talking about I could do that. RYAN: Yeah. I had this weird-- I think part of the epiphany was like I can pretty much control my life. So, let's see what happens if I try to control things that aren't work-related. And I was tremendously invigorated by being able to change my body. It was like, "Holy cow, this is the one thing I didn't know you could do." TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: If you eat the right things and do the right things you can actually change your entire body. It's like, "Whoa, that's crazy." TRAVIS: Yeah, I've made the same shift. Now, it's so funny about being able to give ourselves permission. So, I've been in a financial position to have a personal assistant for 15 years although I've never done it. And I just recently hired myself, and this is kind of like what's wrong with me. How could I let this get by me? There's so many things that I need done that make me happy. I like the
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 11 of 26 environment, my studio to be like a hotel, I like it to be immaculate, right? I like my cars to be immaculate. But I don't like the time invested in me doing it, and so I finally gave myself permission to, and this is silly, to hire somebody to do that. And I'm super excited about that, and I don't know why it took me 15 years to come to a place where I gave myself-- I've got business assistants but never personal assistants. It's just crazy. And I think that is in line with just sitting down, taking the time to engineer the life that you want, right? RYAN: Right. And I don't have a personal assistant, is that something you would really recommend? TRAVIS: I'm very new into it but I love it. So we need to get a tire fixed I send her down for that, I send her to get the car washed, all of those things. And it's not that it's beneath me, it's just when I'm taken away from the stuff that I really like, or my highest value stuff. I rather be helping another entrepreneur than getting my car washed, right? RYAN: Totally, yeah. TRAVIS: And so, I love it so far. And so, it's been a great experience. RYAN: Alright. Yeah, I need to get on that. TRAVIS: Yeah. So let's segue into-- you said something that I think scares the heck out of a lot of people and sound like Greek, which is coding. And so, that average business owner's like, "Coding, I haven't figured out all bells and whistles on my cell phone yet, much less doing some coding here." And so, how does that transition into a business, and there's even part of your story is intertwined in that with Treehouse and everything else that you've done. Can you take me down that path? RYAN: Sure. So, basically the thought is that understanding and controlling technology is becoming a core skill set in life that's as important as reading and writing. TRAVIS: I agree. RYAN: And so, basic things like, "How do I make a simple website? How do I make an iPhone app, or an Android app? How do I make a web app like Twitter or Facebook?" Every business obviously needs to understand this, or hire someone that does. So, what we do is we basically offer very straightforward video training that presumes you know nothing and then takes you all the way to the point where you can actually do these things. And we charge $25 a month for that. And we have now over 55,000 students around the world.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 12 of 26 TRAVIS: Not too bad. RYAN: Yeah, it's great. And if people want jobs then we also then take people who are job-ready and then place them in jobs. So, that's the basic idea. And it really is possible. I have real students that email me every month, and there's a guy named Russell that was an electrician. And he said that he had signed-up for Treehouse because the recession was killing him and he basically couldn't pay his mortgage. And he had had a son who was 3 at that point and he was freaking out. And then, he spent about 4, 5 months learning in his free time before his son woke up or in bed at night. And now he makes websites in his free time and makes enough money to pay his mortgage. You hear stories like that, these are normal people, these are not Mark Zuckerberg. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: People like Mark Zuckerberg intimidate me. I used to be a developer, I can't write any code now, or I can but I don't do it commercially. TRAVIS: So you don't need to be some geeky Mark Zuckerberg-type that enjoy or thrive in coding, right? RYAN: Not at all, in fact, most people are not. And what's exciting is that the amount of jobs and the amount of companies that are now created around these technology are growing in a tremendous rate. We're looking at, I think it's over a million unfilled jobs in development. And the United States just can't produce enough of these people from college. TRAVIS: Well, that's the learning curve, that's a problem. There's the gap of the unskilled versus the skilled, right? RYAN: Exactly. TRAVIS: And so, help me understand, it sounds like it's a variety of verticals. So the $25 a month, you could pick a vertical or-- how does that work? RYAN: Yup. So we have what are called tracks. And tracks are like choosing a major in college. So our tracks are web design, web development which is writing all the code that makes a website work, iPhone, or Android, or WordPress. WordPress is a common thing that people use to run their websites. So you basically just choose, "Hey, this is what I want to learn, or this is what I want to do." And then we guide you step-by-step, you don't have to know anything.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 13 of 26 TRAVIS: Oh, so it's just an evolutionary thing. Okay, so you've learned step 3, now let's go to step 4. RYAN: Yeah, and if I was learning how to be a carpenter, I wouldn't know what tools to gather or where to start. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: So, I would need someone to say, "This is where you start and then here's what to do next." And it's the same thing, but just for coding. TRAVIS: So, let me anticipate how you built this. So you started with one vertical, let's say building websites. And you setup training for that that maybe was a couple of months out and started monetizing that. And then you added another vertical after that, is that how you went step-by-step? RYAN: Sort of. What we did is we used-- So we had an idea. We were running this conference company and we were doing conferences that had a thousand to two thousand people. They cost more than a thousand dollars to attend, and we just thought, "You know what, we're not going to change the world through this business. We're not going to reach enough people that we do reach are already wealthy to some extent." We really want to affect millions of people who need help. So how do we do that? TRAVIS: Yeah, the lights scale, right? RYAN: Yeah, we thought. Well, okay. Technology and learning how to control it are going to become fundamental skills. So, why don't we just hire a teacher, put her in front of a camera, and film him. And then put up in the web and charge 25 bucks a month for that. TRAVIS: I like that. RYAN: Yeah, and we used the cash flow from the events business to bootstrap it. And it was about $150,000 to get the business off the ground. And I hired two guys, 1 developer teacher and 1 design teacher and said, "Okay, we're going to give this 3 months to break even. And if it doesn't break even we're going to shut it down." And then I sponsored my own conference, and launched it at one of my conferences. And on day 1 we had 3,000 signups. TRAVIS: Oh wow! RYAN: And again, that's the seven years of work to get one overnight success.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 14 of 26 TRAVIS: Overnight success, yeah. RYAN: And then from there we hit break even very quickly with a tiny team. So we started scaling the business, hiring more teachers, hiring video professionals, and then that moment happened I described earlier where I showed the product to a guy named Kevin Rose and he said, "I want to invest in that." And I was like getting blind-sided. I wasn't trying to get investment, I tried investment. But I thought, "Wow, well that's interesting." So, at that point there's a real fork in the road. I thought, "Either I do this investment, crazy venture capital thing that I've been reading about, or I just keep building my solo business." And I decided, "You know what, I bet I'll learn a lot, and I bet the company will really grow. Let's do it." So I decided to go the venture capital route. TRAVIS: Any regrets with that? RYAN: Only one. We've raised $13 million now and I do regret having to do the last round of the fund raising we did. We raised an angel round of about $700,000 and then an A round of 5 million, and then a B round of 7 million. And I wish we didn't have to raise that 7 million. I wish that I had been a little bit more tightly controlled on our spending after the A round, because I think I could have gotten us to profitability without doing that. TRAVIS: Yeah. RYAN: And so, we pretty much had to raise that 2nd round. And now we're growing like a weed, thankfully, and it's going great. But yeah, I regret that because that diluted my ownership more. I still own a very huge part of the business but it's a little frustrating. TRAVIS: Yeah. Plus you're giving your-- I'm big on full autonomy. So, you're giving away some autonomy there. RYAN: Definitely. TRAVIS: Most entrepreneurs don't like answering to people. RYAN: Yeah. TRAVIS: And that's what you're doing, knocking what you're doing because it is what it is. It's the nature of the beast, right? We can't insist that dang zebra change its stripes. He is who he is, that's part of the price that you pay with bringing somebody on. You can always buy back those shares at a later time, right?
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 15 of 26 RYAN: Yeah. And there's been a lot of positives though thankfully. My investors have really pushed me hard, not because I'm scared of them but just because-- It's kind of like playing, if you're shooting hoops by yourself at a park, and then all of a sudden if you're playing in a big game and everyone's watching, it kind of felt like that. All of a sudden I had all these eyes on me and I needed to perform. Not because I'm worried they're going to fire me or they're going to sell the business or something. It's like, "Wow, these guys have put in millions of dollars." And I want to absolutely smash it for all of us. So it's been good. And they connect me these insane people like, I got connected to the CTO of America who sits next to Barrack Obama, and all these kind of things because of the investors. So, that's always good. TRAVIS: Well, you know, they force you to raise your game. It's even like being in a really high level mastermind. When you start hearing what's going on behind the scenes with other people you're like, "Holy cow! Man, I need to get out my way here." RYAN: Yeah, exactly. TRAVIS: And so, there's a lot to be said about playing with people that are much higher than you. It fast tracks everything about what you're doing. RYAN: Totally, yeah. TRAVIS: So let's see. So doing the numbers here. 55,000 people, $25 a month. That's a 1,375,000 a month, right? RYAN: Yeah. TRAVIS: That alone, is that your only stream? And I don't mean only in a trivialized way. But is that your only stream or are you guys monetizing other ways also? RYAN: No, that's it. People just straight up pay us, and some of those folks are even paying $50 a month. It depends, there's 2 plans, there's a basic and unlimited plan, so-- TRAVIS: Okay. So, what's your total weight like, $35 or something like that? RYAN: Yeah. It's great, and it's a great business because it's recurring revenue. I specifically chose to do that. My last business was one time revenue, and I just felt like I had to go out and kill what I was going to eat again, and again, and again. And I thought, "You know, if I can build a recurring revenue business, life will just be so much nicer." And it is. I'm very thankful we made that choice.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 16 of 26 TRAVIS: Yeah and that's why I'm kind of pulling this apart because my first couple of businesses had the same problems that you talk about. Number 1, we were hamstrung by being able to scale. We couldn't handle a thousand new customers or clients tomorrow, where you could. And so you've got scalability there, and then also we're always working our self out of business. We'd sell it and go do it. And if you're not careful about continuing that pipeline, the pipeline can go dry. RYAN: Exactly. TRAVIS: So your business model completely eliminates those issues there. And how long do people-- I don't want to cross the line and I know that there may be some things that you just don't share publicly. And if I ever ask those questions just let me know. How long do people normally stick with you whenever they become a client? RYAN: You know, it does depend a lot. And that's one thing we don't share very much publicly. But, you know, for a decent amount of time. That is the one factor though that affects our business the most. And we call it attrition, how long do you stay with us. And we work very hard at that. Because we can dump people into the top of the funnel, and thankfully we're doing that and it's going very well. But how long they stay is absolutely the key metric that changes our business. TRAVIS: Yeah. It's just math. You've got to have more people coming in and staying than are leaving. So you've got to watch that attrition rate. So, industry norms for a reoccurring continuity model like that is 3 months, and I bet you guys probably have a much longer cycle than that. RYAN: Yeah, exactly. TRAVIS: Yeah, very cool. Now, something else that was really interesting. So, the DropSend was acquired on 2011, is that correct? No, 2008, I'm sorry. RYAN: 2008, yeah. TRAVIS: Yeah, I'm sorry, 2008. RYAN: It was my events business that was acquired in 2011. TRAVIS: Yeah. Carsonified? RYAN: Yup.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 17 of 26 TRAVIS: Okay. So, the DropSend was that a different connotation of the business that went out of business? RYAN: Exactly. Yeah, it was the resurrection of a failed business. And man, that worked. It was interesting to see how we basically took a model where I had to sell big subscriptions at 300 bucks, or 500 bucks a month that said, "Let's just make it 3 and then ask people to pay if they want to send more than 5 files a month. And we'll charge them 5 bucks a month." And that really worked. And that business ended up growing to about, I think it was about, we did about half a million a year in revenue. Not something crazy but I've had zero time working on it. It literally ran itself. And I just though, either I dig into this and I go for it or I sell it. And I just realized I'm not passionate about sending files long term, it's just not a business I really care about. So, it's better to sell it. TRAVIS: That was pre-Dropbox also, wasn't it? RYAN: It was. And you know what's ironic, the product was actually called Dropbox before Dropbox was out. But we couldn't get the trademark, which was interesting, in England. So, we changed it, and it went from there. So, that was interesting. TRAVIS: Was that DropSend available over here, I want to say that I was a client of that because-- RYAN: It was, yes. It's definitely worldwide. TRAVIS: Yeah, because I had sent a couple of three large files and then I needed to send more and that was the model. After you reach 5 or something you had to pay for it. And I paid for it. RYAN: That's awesome. You probably paid me 10 bucks or something. TRAVIS: That's right, yeah. I'm responsible for your success, right? RYAN: I appreciate that. When I learned though, I got screwed on the sale of that business. And what's interesting, the reason why is I just didn't know what I was doing. And I'm sure you've seen this and a lot of the listeners who have sold a business know this is that it's all about whether you need to sell or not. And I needed to sell that business. And so, I found one buyer, and he figured out that I needed to sell. And then it was over. TRAVIS: Leverage's lost.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 18 of 26 RYAN: And what I found interesting is that he used this trick on me. I have to tip my hat to him because it was pretty clever. And what he did-- TRAVIS: I guarantee you; he forced you to tip your hand didn't he? RYAN: Yeah, he did. And he also used this trick where he said, "You know what, here's what this business is worth, this is the best that I can do." He gave me a figure, and it was about $400,000. And I was expecting a million, so I was just flabbergasted at that point. And I said, "That's just not going to work. That's barely our yearly revenue. That's not even a 1x multiple." And this is a recurring revenue business that requires zero effort, that's crazy. So, he said, "You know what, let me go talk to my board and I'll try to convince them." And he didn't have a board, there was just him. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And so, all of a sudden he kind of created this feeling of like he's the good guy. TRAVIS: Working with you. RYAN: Yeah, trying to get me the best deal. So he came back and said, "Alright. Well, the board is saying they can't do anymore but I'm going to push them hard and I think we can get you at 425." And I believed it. And I kind of thought that's the best deal that I could get. TRAVIS: You were just paying for a lesson; you were paying for your lesson right there. And so, that sales 101. The guy's saying "Ryan, I'm with you. I'm all in, I think DropSend is incredible. It's not me, it's these guys, but bear with me. I'm going to get another 45,000 out of them." RYAN: I know. And I kind of laughed once I figured it out, but, well alright. You got me. TRAVIS: Yeah. As soon as you bid he knew that he had you, right? RYAN: Yeah, exactly. So, it was all-- But in the end I was like, "Well, hey, half a million bucks, not bad." TRAVIS: Yeah. RYAN: I'll take that. And we ended up putting that most of the money back into the business, which eventually got us Treehouse. So, it worked out.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 19 of 26 TRAVIS: Yeah. Well, I think that's very-- I really appreciate how open and candid you are because you and I talked about this. It's so illustrative for other people to hear our "Uh-oh's" our mistakes, and what we learned. And hopefully you can learn from them through our stories rather than experiencing them yourselves. Although unfortunately, quite often, you have to learn it through experience yourself, right? RYAN: Yeah, exactly. TRAVIS: A lot of times you need to lose that sum of money before it completely sinks in. RYAN: Yup, exactly. TRAVIS: You don't need to learn that lesson ever again, do you? RYAN: No. TRAVIS: Yeah. I had a guy one time. I swapped him for something on a project, and really, he said, "Mark this paid in full for me." And it was just for the one item, right? RYAN: Sure. TRAVIS: I marked it paid in full and then when I come around to get paid on the big portion of the contract, he got the old contract out and he said, "Travis, you marked this paid in full." RYAN: Oh gosh, that's pretty bad. TRAVIS: Yeah. And right then I just realized that I just purchased myself an education. RYAN: That's a good way to look at it. TRAVIS: And it was a time where I really couldn't afford to do without. I was thinking I had an "Oh shit moment." How am I going to explain this to my wife, you know. And I was tempted to pick him up and shake him, but I thought, "You got yourself into it, own it. It's a lesson." If you had to start over today, knowing what you know. I love the fact that you're not a quitter. You get up, you dust yourself off, you move on. Knowing what you know now, if you had to start all over, what would you do differently, if anything?
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 20 of 26 RYAN: I would definitely learn basic accounting sooner. I was very cavalier about how the P&L, and balance sheet, and cash flow, the actual documents worked. And I thought, "Oh, the accounts. They'll figure that out," which is absolutely stupid. It's the report card for your whole business. TRAVIS: It's the windshield. RYAN: I know, it's insane. TRAVIS: It's where you drive from, right? RYAN: So, looking back at that I was thinking, "Well, that was silly." And maybe that's because I didn't study in business in college, I don't know. And that hurt me pretty bad on the sale of my second company just because something as simple as understanding the balance sheet and realizing, "Hey, they're going to knock this off the price of the company." We had some stuff on there that I didn't realize and essentially it was payments received in advance that is essentially a liability. TRAVIS: Right. RYAN: And I didn't get that. So, that was harsh. So that was one thing. I think I would've abstracted myself from my first business a lot sooner. I don't have any plans to sell Treehouse. I want Treehouse to be a 100-year company worth billions of dollars. I don't want to go anywhere with it. But, my previous company is I had a really hard time selling them because I was so involved in the business. And at Treehouse, Treehouse runs itself. I very much provide guidance and leadership, and kind of moral support, but I don't do anything every day. And our customers don't see me as the company. So, I should've done that much sooner. Even with the name Carsonified, it was my last name. That was previous company, so-- Those are a couple of lessons I've learned. TRAVIS: Right. Excellent point. So listen, we're running a little long on time. Are you ready to transition to the lightning round, do you have your seatbelt on right now? RYAN: Yup, let's do it. TRAVIS: Yeah. Do you need to drop down and do any push-ups or anything to get pumped up for this? Or can you just transition just at will? RYAN: That's good.
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 21 of 26 TRAVIS: What book or program made an impact on you related to business that you'd recommend and why? RYAN: How To Win Friends and Influence People, by far the most valuable book I've ever read. And it's been key to really understanding how people tick and why they want to do things. So that's been key. The second is a book called Maverick, which is about a big company in Brazil called SEMCO. And it's even crazier than our culture. People think, "Hey, you don't have managers at Treehouse, you don't work Fridays," well SEMCO is even crazier. Everybody chose their own pay, they hired and fired people without any approval from anybody above, it was just crazy, but it was a huge company and I learned a lot from that book, it's really inspiring. TRAVIS: I'm excited, I've never heard of that one. So it's just called Maverick? RYAN: Yup, Maverick. It's by a guy named Ricardo Semler and the company was called SEMCO. It's a great book. TRAVIS: Alright, I'm excited about that. And the first book, How To Win Friends and Influence People is a misleading title because it's an excellent book. It sounds very selfish but it's really not. RYAN: Yeah, it sounds like you kind of feel bad reading it but it's a classic. I think it was written in the 30's by Dale Carnegie, and I'm sure you've read it. It's just so good. TRAVIS: Yeah, definitely. I think you mentioned it earlier. What's one of your favourite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently discovered, if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners? RYAN: I think something as simple as Google Apps. We run our whole business infrastructure, email, calendar, Google Hangouts, on Google Apps. And it's basically free, so we don't have to use Outlook. It's unbelievable. TRAVIS: I do too, I agree with you. RYAN: Cool. So that's pretty basic but helpful. The other thing I really like is called Asana. And it's a to- do list manager, and it's just great. It's powerful yet simple. And another really cool tool is called Trello. It's really a project management tool but it's in this unique vein of project management called Kanban, and it's a really cool. We used it for a long time at Treehouse. TRAVIS: Excellent. What famous quote would best summarize your belief or your attitude in business?
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 22 of 26 RYAN: It's a quote by Steve Jobs but I'm going to summarize it because it's more kind of a couple of paragraphs. He basically said, “We are raised to believe that we’re supposed to walk down this hallway and not bump into the walls very much, or break anything. But the truth is there is no walls, there's no rules, and the people that are creating your reality know that.” And I just thought it's so true. It's kind of astonishing how much we believe the rules of the universe. And the more you dig into them you just realize, "Gosh, most of these things aren't even real." There are things we stick to, to become comfortable and to have some sort of normalcy in our life but it really is an open book, which is terrifying and exhilarating, you know. TRAVIS: Yeah, I completely agree with you. And they're so binding that they even dictate how you live, and quite often, whether you live or die in some cases. RYAN: Yeah, and a real practical example is just that I look at most CEO's and they kind of work themselves ragged. And they don't seem to even take advantage of this basic ability to control their schedule. And part of that is down to sort of feelings of-- For instance when I go to the gym during the day and my team is working, there's a part of me that feels guilty about that. Is it really okay for me to be at a gym right now? My team is working. And then I realize, I started this company and that gives me the right to control my schedule. I paid the price with stress and risk, and that equals control. So, I should take advantage of that. So that kind of mentality is something I regulate and try to stick to. TRAVIS: Yeah, I completely agree with you. I come from such a tough background that almost everybody I grew up with is either on drugs, dead, or a policeman. RYAN: Wow. TRAVIS: And so it's a very, very tough neighborhood. And for some reason I was born with the belief that I could do it. Or I think I was born with it, or somehow, for some reason I believe that I could. And so, I was able to build incredible business without a special DNA, and without schooling. Now, I had to get education later but I did it without going the certain route. And all of that is attributed to my attitude and my belief. RYAN: Why do you think you're that way? Because I've been trying to figure out, what do I feel like this? Mainly, so I can try to pass on some of this mentality to my kids. And I haven't figured it out why I have this outlook. TRAVIS: I think about that a lot. And I don't know, this may be too old for you to remember. Do you remember Robin Leach's Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous?
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 23 of 26 RYAN: Yeah, totally. TRAVIS: So, I'm growing up in the hood where there's gunshots every night. And watching the show, and I'm so confident that I'm going to be successful that I get excited watching the show because I know one day that's going to be my future. And it was an intuition, it was a level of confidence, and I'm puzzled by that because I don't quite understand it. And I've been on a journey to understand that and also to deserve the things that I've had in my life. But I don't know that answer. I was just born and ate belief that I could, and I had a few small successes, personally on personal levels early on. And I just realized that I can fabricate my future. RYAN: Got it. Wow! TRAVIS: And just built on it from there. So it's kind of a very strange thing. RYAN: You know, that's awesome! I think it's really to my dad telling me a lot he believed in me, but I'm not sure. I'm sure that helped but, I don't know. TRAVIS: It definitely helps to have people nurturing around you and planting that seed. I think that, that can overcome people that weren't inherently born with it. The nurturing is extremely powerful. One thing, and I've been so enthralled in your story and all of the different directions here. I wanted to get one of the piece of wisdom from you. In what you teach, how many verticals are there? Is there too many to mention right now? RYAN: Not really, it's basically web design, web development, and then iPhone development, and Android development. That's kind of the tops it's into. Yeah, apps is a good way to think of it. TRAVIS: Okay, alright. And so, what are the top 5, just off the top of your head. It could be 3, 4, 5, whatever. What are the top 5 misconceptions that prevent people from taking the necessary steps to taking your course, and learning these things, and creating an income? Manifesting their future, right? RYAN: I think the main thing is just dedicating a little time every day. It's just like going to the gym. Anybody can do it. It's just carving out that little bit of time every day to get it done, and that is the only hurdle. You don't have to be great at math, you don't have to have a high IQ. TRAVIS: So people don't think I need to be coder, I need to have some background in coding. RYAN: Not at all. And actually, some of the most talented developers we've ever seen are poets, or English majors. People that have this creative ability to think in creative, abstract ways. Because really,
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 24 of 26 coding is just solving problems. How do I use technology to solve this problem? And that's all there is to it. So, a little bit of dedication, anybody can do this. TRAVIS: It's funny you say that because I think that's been the secret to my success. I once mapped out something that I was thinking, and I mapped out a way to reference certain things when certain things happen. And I showed it to a guy that designed programs, and he said, "Where did you get this?" And I said, "Well, it's just the way I think of things, because this is coding. This is a form of programming here." I'm a creative thinker, and so I like the fact that you're saying you don't need to be this geeky guy, that's a mathematical wizard or anything else, It's just that you're a creative problem solver. RYAN: Exactly. And all of a sudden you can solve all sorts of problems, which is really exciting. TRAVIS: Cool, I love it. Excellent. So how do people connect with you and learn more about doing this for themselves. RYAN: They just head to our website at, or tribute email,, or hit me up on Twitter, I'm just @ryancarson. TRAVIS: Cool. RYAN: And I'm happy to help anyone, or point them in the right direction. We have a free 14-day trial. So you can just try Treehouse totally for free, and if you don't like it you just cancel. So hopefully people check it out. TRAVIS: Man, excellent story, excellent interview, a lot of great information to think about. I appreciate you being so open and candid with sharing your stumbling blocks along the way to success. RYAN: No problem Travis. I'm thankful you've got a show where folks can share what they've learned. Because I wouldn't where I am today if other entrepreneurs hadn't shared. So, it's great to be on the show. End of Interview
  • THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 25 of 26 TRAVIS: Thank you so much for that, I really, really appreciate it. Listen, I want to remind you that you can go to and we've got show notes there, we've got links, everything that we've talked about in the show. That if you want to reference them, the books, there's a quick and easy way to find them right there in the show notes. Now, do you remember at the beginning of the show I've asked you a question? And the question was do you have a company that you compete with, that they always seem to be doing well. Even though their prices are higher than yours, maybe extremely higher than yours. And maybe it's not just their prices, what they offer is not as good as what your company offers, yet they're always still super busy. Now, can guarantee you 90% of the time, the secret to their success is what I call the iceberg effect. And what it means is there's a system going on behind the scene that happens on autopilot. Now, once we figure this out I was able to increase our prices on the services that we offered, and this shifted our business to making profit margins of 800% more on each and every job than what we used to make previously. This is what I use to build several, tiny, little, local companies to multimillion dollar businesses. Now, of that sounds interesting to you and you want to learn how to do things like the iceberg effect, then join this sweepstakes, the $73,000 Sweepstakes. You'll have a chance to win the 73,000 in cash and prizes. Plus, I will personally mentor you, and there's a whole host of things that you win in that package. Plus, you'll have a chance to win my personal Lamborghini. As always, go to, if you'll look at there, there's an orange banner across the top of the website. Just click on that and it'll take your directly to the show. Now, my quote for today comes from Winston Churchill, and the quote reads, "Success is walking from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm.” This is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for now. To your incredible success, take care my friend.
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