Atheists in Kenya : Growing out of God : How I lost God but gained reason.
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Bill Flavell's story of growing up and replacing religious beliefs with critical thinking. The story; the arguments; the evidence... Based on a public lecture given in Nairobi on 4 July 2014 organised by the Atheists of kenya
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Atheists in Kenya : Growing out of God : How I lost God but gained reason.
- 1. My story FROM CHRISTIAN TO ATHEIST
- 2. My childhood Trying on daddy’s shoes 2
- 5. My childhood My school 1959 5
- 6. My childhood My best friend 6
- 9. School years Questions for Mr Fitch 9 If Christians love Jesus, why are they so cruel? Why do people invent gods? Why doesn’t God reveal himself to people in India and Arabia? How do we know our God is not invented?
- 10. University years Seeking answers… 1967 10
- 11. University years My room-mate, Paul, a Roman Catholic 11
- 13. Scorecard 1970 Reasons to believe None Reasons not to believe No reasons to believe! Men invent gods Gods propagated by culture, not revelation 13 The God of the Bible
- 14. Wedding day! Getting married to Linda. 1970 14
- 15. Children Adam, Leah and Lucienne 1976 - 1984 15
- 16. This changed everyone 16
- 17. This man changed me New York 2006 17
- 18. I started to study seriously The Bible, philosophy, physics, history, theology, debating and more… 18
- 19. Then I got active… Facebook, on-line debating, making memes, blogging, presentations… 19
- 20. Two questions for you What is an atheist? 20 Why are some people atheists?
- 21. Test YOUR logic? BAD LOGIC GIVES YOU BAD CONCLUSIONS… 21
- 22. Test your logic (1) 1. Billions of people believe it? 2. People are willing to die for it? 3. It feels absolutely right? 4. People you respect tell you it’s true? 5. It is supported by validated evidence? Is something probably true because? 22
- 23. Test your logic (2) 1. Life must have arrived from outer space. 2. Life must have spontaneously arisen from simple chemicals. 3. A supernatural being must have created life. 4. No conclusion is possible. Complex life exists on Earth but we have no idea how it started. What rational conclusion can be drawn from these facts? 23
- 24. Test your logic (3) 1. Creationism is true. 2. Creationism is probably true. 3. Creationism is not true. 4. No conclusion is possible. Imagine someone PROVES that evolution is wrong. What justified conclusion can be drawn? 24
- 25. Test your logic (4) 1. Yes. 2. No. If something has not been proven to be impossible, does that mean it is possible? 25
- 26. What have I learnt? A) THE BASICS OF ATHEISM 26
- 27. a) Basics Atheism is … The conclusion that those who claim God exists have not shown it is true. Atheism … Is not a belief Requires no faith Is not a religion Is not Satan worship 27 Atheism
- 28. What have I learnt? B) SEVEN POPULAR ARGUMENTS FOR GOD 28
- 29. b) Arguments for God The argument You cannot prove God doesn’t exist therefore, I will believe he does. The rebuttal My inability to disprove something is not evidence it is true. EXAMPLE: I’ll tell you I can fly. To believe something, you need evidence to show it is true. 29 1. Prove God doesn’t exist!
- 30. b) Arguments for God The argument Science cannot explain the origin of life, therefore God must have created life. The rebuttal We don’t yet know how life first arose. It may have been natural or supernatural. Rational conclusion is we don’t yet know. Even if supernatural cannot assume your family’s god responsible. Must first prove your God exists. 30 2. Who created you?
- 31. b) Arguments for God The argument If you found a watch you would be sure it was designed. Life is much more complex so must have a designer. The rebuttal Comparing a watch with living things is a category error… Life reproduces itself— imperfectly. Reproductive errors can make an organism more or less complex. Reproductive changes are cumulative. 31 3. Life is designed
- 32. b) Arguments for God The argument Without God there could be no morality. We do have morality therefore God must exist. The rebuttal There is a reasonable alternative explanation. Social animals need rules… Why? We have culture & emotions like empathy, guilt and shame to help enforce morality. This argument fails anyway because it is circular. 32 4 . God gives us morality
- 33. b) Arguments for God The argument I feel God and experience him so I KNOW he is real. The rebuttal Feeling you are talking to God can be dramatic, emotional and life changing. Can you distinguish between talking to God and imagining it? Different gods produce the same feeling. So can drugs, meditation and electromagnetism. 33 5 . I KNOW God is real
- 34. b) Arguments for God The argument I don’t need evidence because I have faith. The rebuttal Faith has no mechanism to distinguish true from false. Faith is used by Hindus and Christians to arrive at contradictory conclusions. Use faith and you abandon any claim to truth. 34 6 . I have faith
- 35. b) Arguments for God The argument Christianity gives us answered prayers, miracles, social progress—it makes our lives better. The rebuttal It really does not. We have facts! Prayer does not work… No miracles have never been proven. Nations with low religiosity have much higher well-being, lower serious crime, lower corruption and are happier. 35 7 . Christianity works
- 36. b) Arguments for God Does prayer work? More than 100 human conditions are never cured by prayer. For example: Down syndrome Amputated limbs Cleft palette Haemophilia People who pray frequently have much worse outcomes than people who never pray. “Practical” prayers don’t ever work [eg build my house]. We must conclude, only things that could happen naturally, happen in response to prayer. 36 7 . Christianity works
- 37. b) Arguments for God Do miracles happen? A miracle is not something improbable—it is something that is impossible. No claimed miracles has ever been substantiated— many have been shown to be mistaken or fraudulent. James Randi Educational Foundation offers a prize of $1million USD for any proven paranormal activity. After 25 years the prize is still in the bank. 37 7 . Christianity works
- 38. b) Arguments for God Does Christianity deliver social progress? 38 7 . Christianity works Kenya Pakistan Japan Norway Definition Importance of religion 94.0% 96.5% 23.5% 20.5% % who say religion is important in daily life Life expectancy 60 yrs 67 yrs 83 yrs 81 yrs Male & female life expectancy at birth Intentional homicide 6.3 7.3 0.2 0.6 Deaths/1,000 live births in 1st year of life Maternal mortality 360 260 5 7 Deaths of mothers/ 100,000 births Road traffic fatalities 2,176 383 7.3 4.4 Traffic-related deaths/ 100,000 vehicles Well-being ranking 116 132 21 1 Compound well-being ranking 1 - 142
- 39. What have I learnt? C) TWO ARGUMENTS AGAINST GOD 39
- 40. c) Arguments against God The argument The Bible implies creation occurred <10,000 years ago. The Bible says all life was created in a day. The evidence We have glaciers 740,000 years old. Earliest life is in rocks >3 billion years old; reptiles 310 million yrs; mammals 225 million yrs 40 1 . Creation story cannot be true
- 41. c) Arguments against God The argument If God was invented we should expect God’s morality to mirror the Hebrew’s bronze age morality. If God is real and the absolute moral authority we should expect to see morality that we cannot live up to today. The evidence God accepted and regulated slavery. God ordered & committed genocide. God killed a child to punish the father. We have far surpassed God’s morality: Slavery abolished Equal rights Geneva convention on conduct in war. 41 2 . God has bronze-age morality
- 42. 2014 No evidence for the existence of God. Reasons to think God was invented. Strong evidence that parts of the Bible are not true. If you cannot TOTALLY RELY on the Bible, how do you know which parts to believe? 42 The God of the Bible
- 43. My challenge Look me up on Facebook – Bill Flavell Post your argument on my Timeline If your reason cannot be demolished, I will give 15,000 KShs. to a charity of your choice. 43 Prove your God exists
Editor's Notes
- Example of a category error. You make a mistake typing on your computer and the computer crashes and switches off. If you say, “My computer got angry with me and has gone to sleep.” you would be making a category error. If you made a mistake and upset a person, that person may get angry with you but computers cannot get angry. Members of the category people can get angry. Members of the category computers cannot. Comparing a watch with a living being is also a category error. Watches are manufactured and living beings reproduce. This is a crucial difference.
- DOES GOD ANSWER PRAYERS? If you claim God answers prayers you need to explain: 1) Why are a vast number of deserving prayers from faithful believers left unanswered daily? 2) Why will God NEVER ever make a Downs Syndrome child into a normal child? 3) Why does God do more for non-believers who never pray than he does for the devout who pray daily?* If you cannot properly answer all of these questions, you cannot claim that god answers prayers. Period. ______________________________ * By international comparison, unbelieving countries have much lower rates of maternal mortality, infant mortality and road traffic deaths and much longer life expectancy than devoutly believing countries.
- DOES GOD ANSWER PRAYERS? If you claim God answers prayers you need to explain: 1) Why are a vast number of deserving prayers from faithful believers left unanswered daily? 2) Why will God NEVER ever make a Downs Syndrome child into a normal child? 3) Why does God do more for non-believers who never pray than he does for the devout who pray daily?* If you cannot properly answer all of these questions, you cannot claim that god answers prayers. Period. ______________________________ * By international comparison, unbelieving countries have much lower rates of maternal mortality, infant mortality and road traffic deaths and much longer life expectancy than devoutly believing countries.
- DOES GOD ANSWER PRAYERS? If you claim God answers prayers you need to explain: 1) Why are a vast number of deserving prayers from faithful believers left unanswered daily? 2) Why will God NEVER ever make a Downs Syndrome child into a normal child? 3) Why does God do more for non-believers who never pray than he does for the devout who pray daily?* If you cannot properly answer all of these questions, you cannot claim that god answers prayers. Period. ______________________________ * By international comparison, unbelieving countries have much lower rates of maternal mortality, infant mortality and road traffic deaths and much longer life expectancy than devoutly believing countries.
- Data sources Importance of religion: Gallup Poll research Life expectancy: World Health Organisation: World Factbook Intentional homicide: United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime Maternal mortality: CIA World Factbook Road traffic deaths: World Health Organisation: World Factbook Well-being ranking: THE LEGATUM PROSPERITY INDEX 2013 Corruption Index: % of people who paid a bribe: Kenya – 44%; Pakistan – 49%; Japan – 9%; Norway – 1% (Transparency Int)
- DOES GOD ANSWER PRAYERS? If you claim God answers prayers you need to explain: 1) Why are a vast number of deserving prayers from faithful believers left unanswered daily? 2) Why will God NEVER ever make a Downs Syndrome child into a normal child? 3) Why does God do more for non-believers who never pray than he does for the devout who pray daily?* If you cannot properly answer all of these questions, you cannot claim that god answers prayers. Period. ______________________________ * By international comparison, unbelieving countries have much lower rates of maternal mortality, infant mortality and road traffic deaths and much longer life expectancy than devoutly believing countries.
- DOES GOD ANSWER PRAYERS? If you claim God answers prayers you need to explain: 1) Why are a vast number of deserving prayers from faithful believers left unanswered daily? 2) Why will God NEVER ever make a Downs Syndrome child into a normal child? 3) Why does God do more for non-believers who never pray than he does for the devout who pray daily?* If you cannot properly answer all of these questions, you cannot claim that god answers prayers. Period. ______________________________ * By international comparison, unbelieving countries have much lower rates of maternal mortality, infant mortality and road traffic deaths and much longer life expectancy than devoutly believing countries.